☼ Hello. mammaP checking in!

[mammaP]

This week has been a quiet one and not been doing very much. Very cold and dark, I hate winter!  Yesterday I was going

to see some films with friends and the car wouldn't start, called recovery and it took them 4 hours to get here so I didn't get there!

Had to go for a drive around to charge it and that was quite pleasant in the countryside even though it was very muddy and 

gloomy.  A man was out walking his dog and had the fright of his life when he saw my car, it was a quiet road that isn't used very

much and I felt really bad for making him jump. I was crawling along revving a bit so I didn't have to sound the horn in case he was

startled but he was startled anyway, probably had headphones in!

 

After an 'accident' when my little box with my beads was dropped and all the beads lost (again) I decided to drop to one bead.

1 BEAD about a week ago!! 

It has been fine, no difference at all so that is good . I was at 2 beads for 3 months and taking the 2 largest from the box,

which had contained 1 broken capsule of 400 beads. They had progressively become smaller so the 1 large bead is probably only

slightly less than the 2 smaller ones. I will keep taking the largest bead but now I am taking one and throwing one away. If I take just

the largest bead it will take 13 months.  I can hardly believe there is just 1 bead to go after struggling for so long to get below  4. I 

need to post my new discovery on tapering the last few beads in the tapering section for others to try. 

 

I am now feeling much like I was before I ever started on meds so need to work on ways of dealing with things. I am very tired most of

the time, due to my arthritis. I don't get out much so don't see many people at all unless I am at my daughter's house or they come here.

I went to the my meeting last Sunday and didn't go out again until my drive round yesterday, a whole week inside. I went again today

and it was lovely but after about 30 minutes exhaustion washed over me. I wanted to stay and mingle but had to get away. Went to the

shop and struggled to walk back to the car which was just metres away. Got home in terrible pain and had to lie down. 

 

I was so excited about all the things I was going to do when I moved here, and really looked forward to when I was off the effexor. Now

I am almost there, the dose I am taking is negligible really but nothing much has changed. I still wake up and hate my life, it is lonely and

boring, but no pill will change that, it is not withdrawal it is years of anhedonia and habit. I have to get into new habits, have to start to

create things again. I used to be very creative and have a house full of craft stuff and more beads than a bead shop! The house is a

mess and I need to get it organised but can't do very much. I had a lady that came to clean for me in the old house, I wish I could have 

brought here here with me! I need to get someone else but have trust issues and need someone that I know and get along with.

The daft thing is that if I just say, there will be willing volunteers who will come and do anything I need, but I don't want to ask. I am 

embarrassed!  I am hoping that after my surgery I will not be in as much pain and more mobile, then I will be able to taper down the

tramadol.

 

I completely forgot as I was typing this that there is still the tramadol, so it is partly down to meds after all........ DOH! 

In my excitement at reporting that I am down to one bead I forgot the tram.  Now I feel a bit better because I will feel better when

that is gone too. Phew I was a bit worried there that this is it, how things will be post meds! I don't know why I was just thinking that

because only this morning I was telling myself it will be much better when the tram is done with and I don't have the side effects of

that to deal with.  What a numpty I am!   ( Numpty is a Scottishism, if there is such a thing as Scottishism! ) 

[mammaP]

I forgot to say that last night I had some very expensive 85% dark chocolate, and a half glass of cider.

Didn't sleep a single second, will not be doing that again! 

[LoveandLight]

Mammap I was just about to post on your thread to ask how you are doing.

 

I am sorry your in pain.

 

But I am so pleased for you getting down to one bead! That is just fantastic!

[DePrssd5]

HI mammaP,

 

I'm so happy for you. You are my inspiration because I myself will start tapering E once I get stable. If I live right next to you I will help out clean your house but unfortunately I'm miles away from you. Goodluck and I hope this year you will be off E. Thanks for the advice in my thread mammaP.

 

DePrssd5

[Addax]

Good news that you're down to one bead! But I am sorry you're feeling down and a bad reaction to the chocolate. Why don't you want to ask for help with the cleaning and such? What are you embarrassed about? You should ask if there are willing volunteers. Have a clean house is calming. At least that's been my experience. When my home is messy it adds to my anxiety.

 

There's nothing wrong with asking for help. Nothing.

[jen84]

Mamma P, great news on getting down to 1 bead. I can't believe it has taken over a year for you to go from 4 beads down to 1. Slow and steady though! I will be watching for your posts, and I wish you well in the next few weeks. Have you had any sort of withdrawal symptoms yet?

[mammaP]

Mammap I was just about to post on your thread to ask how you are doing.

 

I am sorry your in pain.

 

But I am so pleased for you getting down to one bead! That is just fantastic!

Thanks Joanna, it felt really good to make that decision

 

 

HI mammaP,

 

I'm so happy for you. You are my inspiration because I myself will start tapering E once I get stable. If I live right next to you I will help out clean your house but unfortunately I'm miles away from you. Goodluck and I hope this year you will be off E. Thanks for the advice in my thread mammaP.

 

DePrssd5

 

 

Good news that you're down to one bead! But I am sorry you're feeling down and a bad reaction to the chocolate. Why don't you want to ask for help with the cleaning and such? What are you embarrassed about? You should ask if there are willing volunteers. Have a clean house is calming. At least that's been my experience. When my home is messy it adds to my anxiety.

 

There's nothing wrong with asking for help. Nothing.

 

Thanks DP and Addax,,  My daughter is coming tomorrow morning and we are going to blitz the house, that is a relief because I have visitors coming on Wednesday and I will be able to relax with them. She will help out any time but has not been well enough lately, she must be feeling better to have offered

which is also a relief because I've been very worried about her.  

 

 

Mamma P, great news on getting down to 1 bead. I can't believe it has taken over a year for you to go from 4 beads down to 1. Slow and steady though! I will be watching for your posts, and I wish you well in the next few weeks. Have you had any sort of withdrawal symptoms yet?

Hi Jen, I've been ok until today and the brain zaps and dizziness have hit! Hopefully they will ease up in a few days, if not I will start to take the one big bead and a tiny weeny almost invisible one! It was sooner than I planned but will work it out. It is ridiculous getting withdrawal symptoms from just one teeny bead! 

 

 

[btdt]

We need a better way to do this really.  I wonder what it would cost to pay a scientific group to sort out how to make these doses reliably consisent. 

peace

[mammaP]

We need a better way to do this really.  I wonder what it would cost to pay a scientific group to sort out how to make these doses reliably consisent. 

peace

Sadly its the bead counting that makes it hard at the very low doses. If I could have got the tablets and able to make liquid it might be easier. 

I did get liquid from the doctor but had a reaction to it so was stuck with beads. It will pass and I will get off the last one.....eventually! I need to

take out all the tiny ones from a few capsules, they are the size of a grain of sugar, then I can take the largest one each day and that will lead

to the tiniest but there aren't many of those in a capsule. Fortunately I have plenty to open and find the weeny ones.

 

And of course with one bead there will be some that don't have any active ingredient, especially the little ones because the coating is what makes them slow release!

[btdt]

The liquid obviously is not good enough... this is not good enough.  

I need a break sorry Mamma... peace to you

[WatchingTV426]

Hi MammaP. Just read your very first post, can't believe you've been through all this--what a survivor you are. 

 

I need to spend a LOT of time catching up on your thread, but for the moment, I want to ask about sleep problems--I saw mentioned on someone else's thread from who knows when that you may have dealt with severe insomnia at some point? Is this the case? If so, how long were you going without sleeping, what did you do to deal with it, and how did things turn out? 

 

I've been dealing with severe akathisia and not sleeping--falling asleep for 1 min., then waking up in a panic, then repeat another time and maybe another later on, and that's all the sleep for the whole night--and eventually the akathisia gets so bad I start to think about wanting to die, and I worry about the sleep contributing to this. 

 

Any info. you can provide is really helpful, and thanks for stopping in on my thread the other day . 

[btdt]

I am glad your daughter is well enough to offer to help you.  I know what it is like to worry about our adult kids and that is a rough go too.  I hope the zaps go quickly and you are able to enjoy your company in a nice clean house. 

peace to you Mamma

[btdt]

I quoted your post number 1009 here just so you know I have been out theiving...

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7839-music-what-music-helps-you-put-it-here/page-3

[mammaP]

 

Hi MammaP. Just read your very first post, can't believe you've been through all this--what a survivor you are. 

 

I need to spend a LOT of time catching up on your thread, but for the moment, I want to ask about sleep problems--I saw mentioned on someone else's thread from who knows when that you may have dealt with severe insomnia at some point? Is this the case? If so, how long were you going without sleeping, what did you do to deal with it, and how did things turn out? 

 

I've been dealing with severe akathisia and not sleeping--falling asleep for 1 min., then waking up in a panic, then repeat another time and maybe another later on, and that's all the sleep for the whole night--and eventually the akathisia gets so bad I start to think about wanting to die, and I worry about the sleep contributing to this. 

 

Any info. you can provide is really helpful, and thanks for stopping in on my thread the other day . 

Hi WTV, I still have insomnia and it's been a problem for many years but the withdrawal insomnia is a whole new 

experience. Night after night of no sleep whatsoever, feeling physically ill and not able to drive or even go out at all

because of exhaustion. I fainted once in the kitchen I was just so tired. I say fainted but maybe it was actually a micro

sleep.  I tried everything except drugs, melatonin, lavender, camomile, valerian magnesium, I had it all but nothing

seemed to help that awful withdrawal insomnia. It does get better, I still don't sleep well but get by with 3 hours broken

sleep most of the time. I go to bed and look forward to it, I love my bed, it is warm, comfortable and gives me a hug.

I relax and listen to sleep sounds, the ocean and rainforest are my favourites. I try and concentrate on positive 

thoughts and take myself to a really treasured memory of when I felt most at peace. That was in a hotel pool on 

holiday years and years ago. The sun was shining through the windows and glistening on the water. There was a

waterfall feature and palm trees and I just floated on my back and drank it in. That is where I go when I can't sleep.

 

Relaxing as much as possible and relaxing the brain is not a replacement for sleep but makes a big difference. 

I remember when akathisia was killing me and my thoughts were so fast, it was like watching a video on fast forward,

and thoughts were falling over themselves and all muddled up. Plus that dreadful feeling that your body is on high alert,

can't keep still and muscles are sore if still.  Having to get up and walk, or do something, anything. 

I imagined that the thoughts were a horse that was out of control and galloping at a frightening speed, and concentrated

really hard on slowing it down, talking to this 'horse' to slow down and eventually it did get calmer. I didn't learn this from

anywhere and haave no idea if it would work for anyone else but it did help me at times. Only briefly but it helped.

 

The biggest help is time, your brain is healing and that takes time. It will get better and one day you will realise that you

just woke up, and that means you fell asleep. Then you will come here full of joy and feeling like you won the lottery

because you had 2/3/4 hours sleep. 

 

My daughter came and helped, the house looks lovely now and the visit went really well. It was nice to have company and 

clean cups for the coffee   Unfortunately my back started to play up and I was yelping with the slightest movement 

I told them to ignore me and carry on talking because I was listening! It happens sometimes but will be right again if I'm careful.

Hopefully! 

[mammaP]

I quoted your post number 1009 here just so you know I have been out theiving...

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7839-music-what-music-helps-you-put-it-here/page-3

Steal away 

[btdt]

Thanks Mamma hope the back settles down soon 

peace

[mammaP]

What to say today, it seems that withdrawal has hit full force again. Felt ill the last couple of days, not sleeping again.Last night was awful, was so exhausted I went to bed at 9pm but couldn't relax and ended up getting up and ironing curtains, then had a magnesium bath and went back to bed. The restless painful legs was slightly better, at least the muscles were more relaxed but my brain wasn't. I was thinking about everyone here who has insomnia and the advice I dish out on a daily basis, then tried it on myself. None of it really helped. When it has helped before it has been after lots of practice and night after night of agitated insomnia. Last night was the first that it has been so bad in a long time so I'm out practice. 

My stomach is bad, diarrhoea, nausea, shivering and sweating at the same time. And like I have a heavy cold, headache and pain everywhere. I would have said it's the flu if I didn't have some brain zaps that sneaked in there too. 

 

Now there is much to think about. Is it because I dropped to 1 bead? I've been fine so far but that doesn't mean anything, we all know that! 

My daughter has quit her AD, reinstated but is suffering and keeps forgetting doses. At the weekend she was really down, agitated and upset.

 

I was staying there and they went out to a function .  when they arrived home she was crying. She was very upset and I tried to calm her but she was very agitated and depressed..   Next morning she looked dreadful but it was like nothing happened, she carried on as normal. I didn't sleep a wink, and felt ill next day and since. 

 

I know this is why I feel so ill now. we react to stress badly in withdrawal.  I don't blame my daughter in any way whatsoever, she would not have been that way if it wasn't for withdrawal from the AD.  I am worried, and feel ill. On Thursday I have my pre assessment for surgery next month.  I am thinking of cancelling. because I will be no use to her  if I'm laid up and don't want her to have the responsibility of looking after me.

 

I am crying now and hate those drugs so much, and I encouraged her to go on them to start with, so feel responsible.  

[dalsaan]

Oh mammaP, that is stressful. I can't deal with that stuff either. Could you print off the glen mullein checklist and get her to note and rate her symptoms? Perhaps if she sees the pattern for herself she might be more inclined to manage her dose for stability?

 

Just a thought

 

Dalsaan

[LoveandLight]

So sorry mammap. Please don't feel bad. You didn't know. Your a wonderful soul.

[LoveandLight]

Can you also show her some things on here that reiterates the importance of consistent dosing?

[Muddles]

Oh mamma - I'm sorry you have had the stress along with withdrawal lately. Please don't blame yourself though...I think guilt is one emotion that seems to hit a lot in withdrawal, especially when it comes to our children. plesse be kind to yourself Mamma.

[Petunia]

MammaP,  its no wonder you are feeling so ill, with all that stress, not to mention that you are blaming yourself.  Guilt is a completely useless emotion, all it does is steal more energy from us.  I'm sure you have always done the best you can, as you are now.  My daughter is now somewhat psychologically dependent on propranolol for taking exams and giving presentations, because when she was about 14, I took her to the doctor to get something for her 'anxiety disorder', which I figured she had inherited from me.  I was also the one who took her to the doctor for birth control, thinking I was doing the right thing, but now, its starting to cause problems.  As parents, we do the best we can with what we know at the time.  If we knew better, we would have done better.

 

At times like this, I'm reminded of the decompressing plane analogy.  Parents need to grab that air mask and put it on themselves first so they remain alive to then help their children, and in your case, grandchildren too.

[Muddles]

I like that Petu - it's so true.

[btdt]

Oh Mamma what Petu says we do the best we can with the information we have and that is about all we can do.  

 

I was to see my nephew on the wkend he lived with my sister who passed last march due to my big mouth he has been on effexor for years since then has added muscle relaxants and benzos.. for pain and sleep.  

 

I have not seen much of him due to no car to travel there little money for transport in another fashion and not being so hot myself. We touched base it was not good. I can't believe how he is living he has rented her room out to make ends meet... too many people are there but I could not figure out how it got that way without being too rude to them.  

 

I cleaned his room put sheets on his bed... it was unlike him so unlike my sister .. he was going to protest and I said may sister would not have you left like this and would never leave any son of mine like this... he said he knows and sat down. 

 

I found a bottle of pills under his mattress enough to put down a bull.. for good.  Checked out his other meds as that is what I do... I just do it... I guess like you checked your daughters. maybe we all do it now...

 

What gets me is he is not in there I look at him I talk to him but he is not there... I have talked to other family who live there and don't see him.. I hope things improve I wish you and I were all powerful and could make things go right ... neither of us can.

 

Is there any other family that could help her if you had the surgery you need?  I know what your up against as I have family on these drugs too.. too long on to just quit and some too complicated to even approach as they don't hear me either.

 

 "hate those drugs so much, and I encouraged her to go on them to start with, so feel responsible"

 

me too Mamma me too... 

There is the oxygen mask... and all those things you know take time to kick in well ... is meditation on your list I bet it is ...

 

I am going to put one I like here in case your up and then I think I will listen to it too and practicing what I preach

You are such a kind and helpful soul Mamma it is time you had a break now and I am going to say a prayer that you get one 

I so wish you peace... B

[mammaP]

Thank you everyone for your lovely words. I feel a lot better today, yesterday was about as bad as it has ever been.  As usual started to feel a bit better in the evening and even slept a couple of hours and that makes a huge difference. I had no sleep whatsoever for days. I know that I can be very annoying, once I start on the drugs thing I am like a dog with a bone and people lose interest. I skip from one thing to another and no-one can keep up. So I don't say very much now because she got fed up of hearing it  . I love her so much and it kills me to see what is happening and know what is causing it but powerless to help except to pick up the pieces.  I feel for her so much and would take it from her in a heartbeat. 

 

I have lots of RL stuff to do and will have to step away from the computer for today, I am thinking about you all and hope you all have as good a day as possible. Thank you for your support it means a lot. 

[Addax]

MammaP:

 

A friend of mine once said "As a parent you are only as happy as your unhappiest child." With all that you know now after what you yourself have experienced and moderating here combined with your love of your daughter it would undoubtably be stressful and painful to witness what your daughter is going through and feel unable to fix it. Don't minimize The fact that you're there to love and support her and how much that helps her and sooths her, even if you can't see the evidence of that. She is so very lucky to have you there even if she doesn't seem to realize it yet.

[Rhiannon]

MammaP--

 

Hugs.

 

I can't say it better than Addax and everyone else. Take care of yourself. Love and forgive yourself. You are helping so many people and giving us all so much. 

 

If there's any way I can help with your daughter, if she would like to talk to me, I would be delighted to help; sometimes people need to hear things from someone other than their parent. If this is that kind of situation please keep me in mind.

[chia1214]

Hi MammaP - I am starting to read your intro now, just finished Petu's and CW's, she recommended I read yours next. But I just skimmed this last page before I go off to the beginning. I'm just starting out and have been cautioned to go very s-l-o-w-l-y in my taper, I see you are a good example to follow.

 

You have lots of good supporters here. So good to see. I look forward to reading your story. Just wanted to say hello and wish you well through this challenging time.

[btdt]

Thank you everyone for your lovely words. I feel a lot better today, yesterday was about as bad as it has ever been.  As usual started to feel a bit better in the evening and even slept a couple of hours and that makes a huge difference. I had no sleep whatsoever for days. I know that I can be very annoying, once I start on the drugs thing I am like a dog with a bone and people lose interest. I skip from one thing to another and no-one can keep up. So I don't say very much now because she got fed up of hearing it  . I love her so much and it kills me to see what is happening and know what is causing it but powerless to help except to pick up the pieces.  I feel for her so much and would take it from her in a heartbeat. 

 

I have lots of RL stuff to do and will have to step away from the computer for today, I am thinking about you all and hope you all have as good a day as possible. Thank you for your support it means a lot. 

I know exactly what you mean.. about talking about this issue I am the same and worse with family ... I hope a time comes soon where you can reach her and get her settled to a good tapering plan... I know from experience that drugged people love their drugs and can't think straight ... so it is an uphill battle ... I wish you and your family health and a resolution to this problem I wish you all peace.

[Fresh]

Thinking of you MammaP , sending love and blessings        hope things are settling down a bit.

[mammaP]

MammaP--

 

Hugs.

 

I can't say it better than Addax and everyone else. Take care of yourself. Love and forgive yourself. You are helping so many people and giving us all so much. 

 

If there's any way I can help with your daughter, if she would like to talk to me, I would be delighted to help; sometimes people need to hear things from someone other than their parent. If this is that kind of situation please keep me in mind.

Thanks Rhi, you are top of my list for support when it is needed 

 

Thank you to all those who have commented and sent love, it is very much appreciated. 

Yesterday wasn't good, exhausted after the few days activity but it was great to be out and about.  Today has been another bad day but went back to bed and slept for 4 hours! It was a strange sleep, one of my weird ones. Not sure if I was asleep or awake, dreaming or real. Laid there dreaming but aware of it and telling myself to open my eyes and get up. Just couldn't open my eyes, they wouldn't do as they were told! Eventually did wake up properly and it was 3.30pm. I think I really needed that sleep but didn't feel refreshed and wanted to stay in bed and sleep some more. Hopefully will sleep again tonight, I feel sleepy and like I could sleep for  week. 

Tomorrow I am going away to London for a theatre break with my daughter, we have been looking forward to it for weeks :-D. Need to sleep tonight because there will not be any sleep until I get back again, I never sleep in hotels. Hoping to go on the London eye too,  I've wanted to go on that since it was built, hope we make it there 

[chia1214]

Hi again mammaP - I did finish your thread. I don't have much to contribute, just offering support and certainly learning from you, especially your caution to taper slow. I'm not close to a low dose yet, but am still going slow. Hope your outing to London was nice for you. -- Chia

[mammaP]

I thought it was time to update, seems like a long time since the theatre now, 10 days have passed and it is just a memory. It was really good and we enjoyed ourselves in London. I was worried about the noise and how I would cope but it was great. After an hour I was struggling and thought I would have to leave but managed to sit through to the end, kind of hunched in my seat by the end because I couldn't hold myself up. I was glad it was dark! We even had our faces painted and went in to see Cats looking like cats    .  As usual was ill after for a few days and still haven't recovered properly. I don't know if it is anything to do with the break but the insomnia is back in full force, night after night of no sleep. Today I had to go back to bed and slept for an hour but it felt like I'd been asleep for hours.

If I do fall asleep I wake up after around 30 minutes, and can't seem to drop off again. I just hope that todays nap means I'm going to start to sleep again, at least for 3 hours as usual.  I see people who say they can't function on 6 hours, I function on very little, some nights not even a minute. My surgery is in 12 days and I am actually looking forward to going under just to sleep! I had to have a 24hr BP monitor because my BP was very high at my pre op assessment. I was talking to the nurse about sleep because she said I wouldn't get any sleep with the monitor on. I told her about my insomnia and she asked if I take anything for it.  I explained about the problems I have had with drugs and that I wouldn't touch a sleeping pill with a 10ft barge pole! I also told her about tapering effexor and was really surprised that she knew about the problems with withdrawal and she agreed that it was a nasty drug to get off! She was very impressed that I have got so far and congratulated me, saying I must be a first because she has never seen anyone manage to get off it, everyone has to go back on because of withdrawal.........withdrawal not relapse!! You could have knocked me over with a feather I was in shock,  .

 

My BP was fine, I told them it was white coat syndrome and was glad they used the monitor instead of just issuing a prescription. They seem very accepting of my drug sensitivities here which is good. I am getting a bit nervous about surgery, lots of what if's. I have to get off the tramadol and can't do that until I've had the surgery, I just hope that it does what it is supposed to do and get rid of a lot of the pain so I can eventually start to taper that again. I went down a tiny 5% to 95mg in the evening  and have held at that. I think I will be able to sleep better when that is done with. Lots of people tell me they can't sleep with tramadol, it wakes people up and is activating. For me it is both, activating and over sedating at the same time  . I hope they will be able to give me some different pain relief, I don't want to take more of it! They mentioned fentanyl, and ketamine, instead of morphine because morphine makes me very sick. They were very good about the drugs and listened to me which was a nice change.   I don't really want any of them but that would be impossible for the first few days, after that hopefully will manage ok.  Need to stop stressing about it! 

[coldturkmama]

My nurse practitioner acknowledged my withdrawal- I was shocked as well, but thankful! !

[btdt]

I have yet to have a medical person knowledge withdrawal. 

 

One of the cats  here was hurt and put on tramadol could not get better cause it was hyper.  Ketamine they use on cats too hear it makes them psycho not sure what it does to people tho I know I have looked it up... it was the drug used in a famous murder here with Paul Bernardo so eveyone around knows it can make a person unconscious. 

I hope they find something that works sadly we know there are no free rides with the meds.  I am glad your blood pressure is good.  I hope all goes well with your surgery Mamma.  Peace

[mammaP]

Ketamine is used to for large animals if I remember right, and is popular on the streets with addicts and also used as an anti depressant so want to give that a wide berth if possible. I hate tramadol and wish I never took it but then I was in a lot of pain and couldn't have anything else after surgery.   

 

Never had fentanyl but I know it is available in patches. Oxycontin was mentioned too but don't want to touch that stuff either!