cinephile: I've had it!

[Lor95]

 

I also find myself (usually) waking up around 5:30 AM. Sometimes, however, (especially lately), I can sleep in until 7:00. And 9 times out of 10, I can't sleep again once I wake up. I toss and turn and get into a kind of half-sleep/dream state and then immediately snap awake.

 

But since late May, it's been a totally different story. I take Klonopin 1mg nightly to sleep, along with extended release Proponolol to suppress the shocks and it does work. ***PLEASE don't tell me horror stories about daily benzo use and withdrawal. That's the last thing I need right now. Frankly, if I weren't on these meds, I'd be nonfunctional.

 

 

 

Gosh Cine, I just had to respond to these parts of your post in particular.

To tell you that you are not alone.

I have had what you describe all through my taper.

I "sleep" (well, I'm not conscious) until early morning. Then I can't get back to sleep. Time passes but it's like a stupor/dream state for hours, until I can drag myself out of bed.

During this state, I used to have streams of nonsensical garbage going through my mind and I still do to some degree but it's now morphed into streams of mini-nightmares mostly. I feel like I'm waking up every few minutes but I'm not sure I am.

 

I too, am on a benzo, otherwise I fear I might not sleep or function at all.

 

I am so sorry you are going through this but just wanted to post in case it is some solace to know you're not the only one - it's awful when you have symptoms that no one else seems to have, especially when they are so torturous.

 

And I hope it's some consolation to know that you are finally off the AD - I still have a way to go. Belated congratulations to you!!

[Skyler]

As you and I have discussed at length, you might go back on a small amount of Lexapro, even 1mg, and taper by micro-amounts after stabilizing. This might help, and if it does, it would be better for you than becoming dependent on benzos.

 

Please note Alto's caution above. Benzos are only helpful for a few weeks with daily dosing, and even in this brief time addiction may occur. For further information about the risk benefit ratio, please read. Note, there is disagreement about the risk benefit ration being worse for ADs, and it is thought they are both equally bad.

 

 

I too, am on a benzo, otherwise I fear I might not sleep or function at all.

 

Benzos suppress dreams, and this effect would probably be active as long as you take them. Unfortunately, tapering off benzos is just as difficult, possibly so more than ADs.

[Lor95]

 

As you and I have discussed at length, you might go back on a small amount of Lexapro, even 1mg, and taper by micro-amounts after stabilizing. This might help, and if it does, it would be better for you than becoming dependent on benzos.

 

Please note Alto's caution above. Benzos are only helpful for a few weeks with daily dosing, and even in this brief time addiction may occur. For further information about the risk benefit ratio, please read. Note, there is disagreement about the risk benefit ration being worse for ADs, and it is thought they are both equally bad.

 

 

I too, am on a benzo, otherwise I fear I might not sleep or function at all.

 

Benzos suppress dreams, and this effect would probably be active as long as you take them. Unfortunately, tapering off benzos is just as difficult, possibly more than ADs.

 

 

Believe me Schuyler, I know. And I'm certainly not advocating the use of benzos, not at all.

[Skyler]

Believe me Schuyler, I know. And I'm certainly not advocating the use of benzos, not at all.

 

Hi Lori, I just get concerned with visitors who are reading bits and pieces.. sometimes the mention of said can look other than intended? Benzos were my first step into this 'fools paradise'.. usually I don't comment, but with cine's first allusion above, I wanted to support Alto.

 

Thanks for sharing.

[jr1985]

Cine, you may already kbow this but apparently those jerks that keep you awake are called hypnic jerks. One theory is that they happen when your muscles relax before sleep, which your brain interprets as you falling. So it panics and makes your muscles jerk. In w/d the reaction is intensified.

 

I read magnesium and taurine may help, perhaps glycine too.

[Barbarannamated]

I wish i could take your suffering away, Cine. Know that whatever you do to get thru this, it's ok.

 

{{{HUGS}}}

[Barbarannamated]

Wanted to throw my 2 cents in about the power of the fight - flight - freeze instinct/response that has gone haywire courtesy of drugs. I'm going to say serotonin is the greatest offender, but that's just a gut feeling.

 

I've been cognizant of the enormous power of this instinct through horses, animals of flight. The evolutionary roots of this are not to be taken lightly. I've been on the back of a 1000lb animal in full flight mode and there is no reasoning with them. It is pure SURVIVAL MODE, brain is shut off. If a horse hears another horse running in flight, that is cue to FLEE! No questions asked. I just can't find words to describe how powerful this innate instinct and chemical messenger system is (cortisol).

 

I dont mean to anthropomorphize (or reverse), only comment on the power of this system. We are not animals of flight, but that mechanism has been greatly tampered with. I feel that the freeze response applies, to me at least. Early withdrawal seemed characterized by flight. Then at about 6-9 months, I stopped running and shut down, exhaustion. Frozen. I still sense danger lurking and am on hyperalert, but feel unable to fight or flee. I think that is where the "I know for a fact im going to die soon" impending doom comes from. Every morning until 12:30-1:00pm. Then it lifts a bit and I feel like there's a chance I'll live. I can talk to myself to some extent, but it's extremely difficult to break thru that biochemical and instinctual survival response. Akin to reasoning with a drunk person. I like Alex's suggestion of acknowledging cortisol "good morning, cortisol, I know it's you messing with my mind..." I don't know if that's how Alex stated it, but I like the idea.

 

Just trying to offer a morsel of understanding and support from my animal world. Horses that have been abused are prone to metabolic disorders, especially cortisol-related.

 

I hope you feel the support here. I think we all have the same desire to get far away from these drugs that have harmed us. We talk about what we've discontinued or are tapering, but not about what we are on that is cushioning the withdrawal. I think most of us have something that keeps us going even though we dont talk about it. I dont want to advertise to anyone who might be popping in and not getting the full story. But, more importantly, I don't want YOU to feel judged in any way for doing what you need to get through this. You've been beat up far too much already.

 

You're a good guy and very gifted man, Cine. I look forward to your contributions here and to this world via your journalism.

 

B

[areyouthere]

Cine,

 

I am new here, much older than you but with at least a similar history of lexapro use. I just want to say two things:

 

1) Your resolve to both taper and remain functional is an inspiration to me. In my eyes, you have accomplished much.

 

2) The momentary startle response just before drifting off to sleep is something new to me and it started when I UPDOSED from 10 mg. to 20 mg. on my own. Just after I startle it is followed by a feeling of dread.. kind of like processing my strong negative feelings for and about my stressful job. It's never kept me awake though. It just pisses me off and I say "**** you" to it and fall back asleep.

 

This startle response very much reminds me of the times I am in deep thought about something and I come around a corner in the house and my husband ( he's a big guy) "scares" me . In those cases I realize it is him, I jump and go "AHH!" and I just kind of collapse in his arms and we laugh about it and go on with whatever we were up to. I know it is the fight or flight response.

 

Interestingly, these new night time startles have disappeared this summer as I've been on vacation but none of my meds have been changed. So for ME, a "perceived " increase of stress at work, & my ( stupid grrrrrr) change in dosage ( UP from 10mg to 20 mg rather than DOWN) must have triggered this new startle response. I attribute it more to the increase in dosage than an increase in stress as I have had many, many ups and downs in stress levels at 10 mg. and NEVER had this startle before. EVER. But then, equally as interesting, now that I have stabelized on the 20 mg. and the stress is reduced and the startles are gone. Go figure..... If someone has a plausible theory I'd be interested.

 

I am curious to see if it the startles returns as my stress level ramps up significantly very soon. I hope not. I HATE them because it reminds me that my job sucks right now.

 

I too wish that you would be gentle with yourself. I know that is much easier said than done, but you have accomplished much: a) you recognize there may be a problem with long-term ssri use you're doing something about it c) you're reaching out for support when you need it.

 

I'm only at step a).... so kudos to you!!!!!!

[Nadia]

Interestingly, these new night time startles have disappeared this summer as I've been on vacation but none of my meds have been changed. So for ME, a "perceived " increase of stress at work, & my ( stupid grrrrrr) change in dosage ( UP from 10mg to 20 mg rather than DOWN) must have triggered this new startle response. I attribute it more to the increase in dosage than an increase in stress as I have had many, many ups and downs in stress levels at 10 mg. and NEVER had this startle before. EVER. But then, equally as interesting, now that I have stabelized on the 20 mg. and the stress is reduced and the startles are gone. Go figure..... If someone has a plausible theory I'd be interested.

 

Me too! The mind is a slippery, enigmatic thing. Some things that I would think would make my symptoms worse don't. I also got totally better for two weeks while I was on vacation, but it didn't last. On coming back home, I had a night or two of the sudden waking with dread, and hadn't had that I think since last year. This fight or flight response is inherently distrustful, too. Sometimes I try to talk to it like a scared animal, to calm it down, and I think I have achieved some pretty good control in some instances, but sometimes it almost seems like the hyperalertness is wary of me, like I'm trying to trick it. Not sure how else to describe it. So then I just go, "OK, be afraid if you want, let's just feel what that's like"...

[Altostrata]

cinephile, how are you doing now?