kesh Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 9 hours ago, Altostrata said: There is no answer to this question -- it depends on individual circumstances. For example, kesh, you are just starting to manage your own situation in the context of a naturally pessimistic outlook. Is it too soon to say you'll never get stable? Why anguish over something that may never happen? Is this good for you? If you are in a difficult spot with drugs, is it constructive to think it will last forever? As we can see over and over, many members here, even those who frequently post with incessant irrational worries, get better, much to their surprise. They put energy into enhancing all that suffering for nothing. In the converse, if you knew you were going to have to contend with symptoms of a chronic disease for the rest of your life, what would you do? This is a real test of character. Can you rise to dealing with that reality? Or would you sink into self-pity? The one question I get most often is "When will I recover?" If I was able to answer that question, I'd use my prognostication abilities to do something a lot bigger than this Web site. If anyone can do this, please get in touch with me! Thanks Alto. Yeah I'm catastrophising. Thanks for the gentle reminder that's what I'm doing. This is easily the toughest thing I have ever been through, and acceptance of that is even more difficult. Panic is almost easier somehow, even though panic is horrible. And thanks for this great site. Not sure where I'd be without it. Current daily meds. Citalopram 2.5mg morning. Diazapam 1.5mg evening, Propanalol 40mg split 4x10mg throughout day. Recent meds. Fluoxetine 20mg began 24th Nov 2017, CT on 4th December on medical advice due to bad Akathisia. Citalopram 10mg began on 13th Dec 2017, tapered to 2.5mg by 20th Dec 2017 on medical advice. Diazapam 2mg began on 6th Dec 2017 cut to 1.5 mg on 26th Dec. Propanalol 40mg began on 13th Dec. Zopiclone 3.75 mg began 13th December, used maybe 5 times then quit. Previous history. Tricyclics, Fluoxetine or Citalopram for periods of 6mo to 2yrs over last 25 years. Probably 5 yrs in total. No significant ill effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafatennis Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Great feedback here, since I started the withdrawal process in Jan 2017 from Nortriptylene I had one period in July when I dropped from 18mg to 16mg where I had to hold for two months before continuing, I was doing the 10% protocol taper and was suggested by Alto to try 5% every 2 weeks and see how that goes. I also got some other good advice from a moderator because I too was unsure when I should resume my taper and she said if you aren't having drastic swings from day to day keep going, I did just that it went quite well and had no real problems except the usual 4-5 days of feeling the meds adjusting with half life etc. I've always been a steady exerciser usually 6 days a week lifting weights and cardio, usually 45mins-1 hour each workout but with fairly strong intensity, I'm in a place now where I dropped from 10mg to 9.5mg, two weeks later to 9mg, what i did different was at 9.5 I really wasn't feeling as stabilized as I had on previous drops and pushed forward anyway and now I'm two weeks after the drop to 9mg and really have had very few windows so this advice really helped. I can't get in the weight room now without feeling worse, I've done virtually minimal to no exercise over the last week , if any of you are like me exercise and athletics has always been a big part of my life and stress relief and coming to the realization of having to stop for periods is tough but now I see necessary, gentle exercise will have to govern activity now. I would love to hear from anybody in reply who enjoys working out like I do and how it has affected them. I also meant to mention I'm 56 and have been on these meds at varying doses for the past 20 years. Thanks February 3rd 2021 1.5 mg Clonazepam 13.4 mg Nortriptylene doing a water taper on the Nortriptylene but have been holding due to adverse nervous system activation supplements 200mg Magnesium carbonate, good quality fish oil, vitamin E 400IU, B6 B12 Folate one every 2-3 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meeto Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Is it possible to never stabilize after drop? It's been 4 months since my last drop and I have been getting worse regardless of what I do. Lexapro 1/17 - 3/17 10 mg. Switched to Elavil 3/27/17 10 mg Upped to 20 mg June 5, 2017 3 days, back down to 10mg June 8 Up again to 20 mg June 12, 2017 4 days, back down to 10 June 16 9/17 dropped to 9.5 mg 11/17 dropped to 9.3mg 2/18/17 dropped to 8.8 mg February 14/2018 Adverse reaction to zofran pill at clinic 10/7/19 8.48 mg 12/22/19 7.3 mg, 2/7/20 6.5 mg, 5/23/20 5.84 mg, 5/7/23 .70 mg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted March 21, 2018 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 21, 2018 See: Withdrawal Normal Description * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nada678 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Hi Mama flower I am in the same boat as you after reinstating 2.5mg then up to 5 mg of Paxil 3 months ago. But I feel worse than ever, and am finding it very hard to get out of bed or think straight at all. I have tried decreasing slightly but the electric shocks are unbearable. I think my CNS is totally unstable. How do you cope on s daily basis? Best wishes. Nada On Paxil 10mg 2008-2015 Withdrew Paxil Sept 2015 - Dec 2016 Reinstated 1mg Paxil end Jan. 2017 Updosed to 2.5mg Paxil June 2017 Reinstatement not working Benadryl 25mg some nights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaFlower Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 On 5/9/2013 at 9:49 PM, basildev said: Yeah I'm still experiencing fluctuating sleep after 2 months (since updosing). I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever get better. It's comforting to know that others here have take longer than the seemingly 'average' 4-6 weeks to completely stabilize. (Not that I want to take any pleasure whatsoever in other people's discomfort!) I wish I could believe my sleep is going to get back to normal. Everything else has(: I'd love to hear from anybody who has experienced complete (symptom free) stabilization after updosing/reinstating, but had to wait a much longer than average time for this to happen(EG: months instead of weeks). Anybody out there? This is me right now. Feeling completely hopeless. Been on Paxil since 1997Went down from 8mg-7.5mg (less than 10%) Liquid Paxil on February 3rd 2018 Went down another .5mg (less than 10%) Liquid Paxil in March 2018 Went up to 14mg Paxil March 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaFlower Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 On 1/6/2018 at 7:17 AM, kesh said: I've seen a few people post on this issue when new to tapering protocols and trying to figure out how to get well. I thought it might be a good idea to make a thread. Many of us coming here have been bounced around by different doses and medications, and don't know what a stabilising dose might be. Are we in withdrawal or are we feeling symptoms induced by a dose increase or new drug? Will a hold at where we are actually give us any stability? Maybe on joining this forum we have been on the same dose for a while and feel no stability. Myself, I have akathisia, in windows and waves. I don't know of anyone that stabilizes on akathisia, that is they hold their dose and see it stop or lessen significantly. Healing to all. this is me. Been on Paxil since 1997Went down from 8mg-7.5mg (less than 10%) Liquid Paxil on February 3rd 2018 Went down another .5mg (less than 10%) Liquid Paxil in March 2018 Went up to 14mg Paxil March 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaFlower Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 On 3/20/2018 at 6:59 PM, Meeto said: Is it possible to never stabilize after drop? It's been 4 months since my last drop and I have been getting worse regardless of what I do. this is me. I am so afraid, too. Just letting you know you are not alone. Desperate for answers. Been on Paxil since 1997Went down from 8mg-7.5mg (less than 10%) Liquid Paxil on February 3rd 2018 Went down another .5mg (less than 10%) Liquid Paxil in March 2018 Went up to 14mg Paxil March 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peng Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Effexor XR. When does one start to feel better after a taper crash and updose/reinstatement? These are thoughts from my own records and experience. Maybe they will prove helpful to someone, but caution advised, as we all know "everyone is different." I commenced the "SA" taper 2 years ago from 225.0mg. Today, after my crash at about 56mg, 6 months ago, I am in the 5th day of feeling much better. A good "window". When I realised I had well and truly crashed and burned, I made four modest updoses over the last four months to where I am now. to 62.5mg (hold 33 days) to 75.0mg (32 days) to 87.5mg (25 days) - suffering badly, but possibly, if I had stuck it out for another week, may have been sufficiently stabilised.) to 100.0mg with current window commencing after 22 days. My journal/spreadsheet also reports of a reinstatement after a crash at 0.0mg* 12 years ago in spring 2006 - "75mg - getting better, 21days....." *Effexor XR again. Our NHS is more cautious - "Depressed mood and lack of interest in activities may need up to 6-8 weeks to fully improve." But this refers to ADs in general, not Effexor/venlafaxine specifically. The AD experiences of reinstating/updosing/tapering/crashing/staying off can be overwhelming and seemingly endless. Patience can pay off, though, if we are fortunate. Born 1945. 1999 - First Effexor/Venlafaxine. 2016 Withdrawal research. Effexor. 13Jul - 212.5mg; 6Aug - 200.0mg; 24Aug - 187.5mg; 13Sep - 175.0mg; 3Oct - 162.5mg; 26Oct - 150mg 2017 9Jan - 150.00mg; 23Mar - 137.50mg; 24Apr - 125.00mg; 31May - 112.50mg holding; 3Sep - 100.00mg; 20Sep - 93.75mg; 20Oct - 87.5mg; 12Nov - 81.25mg; 13 Dec - 75.00mg 2018 18Jan - 69.1mg; 16Feb - 62.5mg; 16March - 57.5mg (-8%); 22Apr - 56.3mg(-2%); CRASHED - Updose 29May - 62.5mg; Updose - 1Jul - 75.0mg. Updose - 2Aug - 87.5mg. Updose - 27Aug - 100.0mg. Updose - 11Oct 112.5mg. Updose - 6Nov 125.00mg. 2019 Updoses 19 Jan - 150.0mg. 1April - 162.5mg. 24 April - Feeling better - doing tasks, getting outside. 7 May - usual depression questionnaire gives "probably no depression" result. Supps/Vits Omega 3; Chelated Magnesium; Prebiotics/Probiotics, Vit D3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
India Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 On 3/14/2013 at 2:06 AM, tezza said: I was one sick puppy for all those months but when I started getting better it gradually got progressively better from then on. I still feel some fleeting moments, almost like flashbacks, of mild depression. The anxiety has improved tremendously. Sleep isn't perfect but usually tolerable. Muscle twitches are only occasional now. Tinnitus is 90% better. This gives me so much hope. 1999: Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months. 2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects) 2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram 2mg , approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held. 2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg 17/09/2023 0.8mg (Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts) I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath - Dante Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beigebuoy Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Hey guys, I’ve been holding at 10mg of Lexapro for 6 weeks and have had some noticeable improvements and actually felt moments of mild happiness at certain points for sure however I feel like my energy and motivation has started to decrease as opposed to increase. My main discomfort is physical pain and contorted/stiff muscles and insides which has definitely improved but is still there. I’m wondering if I am going through a wave or if maybe I should decrease by a 10 percent and see if that makes a difference? Maybe I am stabilising but it’s now a bit more than what’s needed for my body? Or should I hold at 10 till I reach around the 12 week mark at this dose? I don’t feel as though I should increase but that’s also an option I guess.. Any insight would be helpful. It could just be a bad lengthy wave. Thank you! -Zoloft for 2-3 months (late 2010) -Fast tapered and started citalopram for 2-3 months ( Early 2011) -Fast tapered and started on lexapro at 10 mg, worked up to 20-25mg (Mid 2011) -Stayed on Lexapro for a couple of years (2011 to early/mid 2013) -Stopped for a bit, not sure how long I can't remember. -Started lexapro again around 2014, worked up to around 20mg I think. Somewhere in that year tried luvox, bad experience went back to Lexapro. -Tapered off Lexapro again around mid 2015 maybe? Stayed off until the Beginning of 2018. -Started back at 10mg, stayed there till the end of 2018. Fast tapered at the beginning of 2019. -More severe withdrawal symptoms started, reinstated after a couple of months at 10mg, went up to 20 briefly, back to 10mg until the end of 2019. -Since been off Meds from the start of December 2019 to now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzann Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 It can take a few months rather than weeks before you get stable if you read right through this whole thread, if It were me I would hold for 12 weeks then reassess my situation as to whether continue holding until I stabilised more or trying a very small cut . Also if you think you may be in a wave then holding is definitely your best option I believe rather than put any more stress on your CNS by cutting for now . All the best Zzann x 36 yrs on BENZOS + poly drugs I was not aware that all the ''illnesses'' I was getting misdiagnosed with was withdrawal. I ended up ploy drugged for this reason Various Opiates, Olanzapine, amitriptyline, cipramil, trazadone tramadol Librium Oxazepam Ativan Clomazepine Temazepam 40mg at night zimovane nitrazepam Diazepam. CT,d or rapid tapered most of the above by force was on 20mg of Diaz CT 10mg by force to 10mg Have been trying ot get off trying to get off the last of the Diazepam which I've been on for approx about 18 years since October 2014 where I'd cut to 6+1/2mg , after being steered to the Ashton manual told that was the ''correct way to taper' not the way I had been doing all along. I got scared by the 'You have to be to heal'' mantra that goes around, but now know, too late for me unfortunately, its not true. And unfortunately it was too fast a cutting rate with way too short holds and messed me up even worse. I went from stable with the occasional very easily managed blip to totally destabilised and disabled and house bound rapidly. And horrible crippling symptoms I never had before, and my ears got hit badly along with crippling pain I have severe hyperacusis and tenacious tinnitus along with ear pain and other ear problems, and my mental realm got seriously smashed to bits too.I up-dosed by 1+1/2mg the first time November 2016 back to 5mg, as I've been stuck at 3+1/2 mg unable to barely taper for 18 months while holding for weeks, then 6 months but was still unstable. Then held the 5mg for nearly 4 months but still no improvement so up-dosed by another 1/2mg February 22nd 2017 putting me at 5.1/2mg and held just over 10 weeks 4 days up till now .8/5/17 Its the only drug I take now, I don't and can't take no supplements/painkillers or any thing else as I'm too sensitive due to withdrawal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sottana Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 What is one to do if they simply aren’t stabilizing? It’s been six months with stabilizing still totally out of sight. Would it make sense to just taper at this point? So frustrating. 1 2008: start Lexapro 10 mg which is quickly upped to 20 mg. 2008:2013 try at least four individual times to get off Lexapro, never get lower than 5mg, settle at 15 mg. 2015: again, attempt to get off Lexapro and get to 5 mg. After 6 months, feel i'm stabilizing but go back on a higher dose because of one stressful event. 2016: go to 20 mg from 15 mg due to work stresses, hit severe tolerance for the first time and become very suicidal. 2016-2017: try viibryd and cymbata in an attempt to feel better. Also add Lamictal 150 at some point. 2017: eventually land on paxil 37.5 and Lamictal 150. January 2018: cut paxil to 25. April-July 2018: reduce Lamictal in 50 mg increments till im off August. 2018: reduce paxil to 20 mg. december 2018: dropped Paxil to 18 mg, SEVERE CRASH. March updosed to 20 mg April 11: dropped to 19.4 mg due to akathsia (still experiencing akathsia symptoms from updose) April 20: 19 mg Paxil May 4: 18.7 Paxil July 5: 18.2 July 12: 17.8 Aug 19: 17.5 Aug 26: 17.3 Oct 20: 17.1 Nov 3: 16.9, 8/17/20: 16.6 after nine month hold, 8/24/20: 16.4, 8/31/20:16.2, 9/14/2020: 16.0, 9/21/20: 15.8, 9/28/20: 15.6, 10/19/20:15.4, 10/26/20: 15.2, 11/2/20: 15.1, 11/7/20: 14.8, 3/6/2-: 14.5, 3/20/20: 14.3, 4/3/20: 13.9, 4/10/2021: 13.7. 4/21/21: 13.5, 5/5/2021: 13.1, 12.2 8/12/2021 (slowly microtapered to this number. I just can’t remember the exact dates), 11.8 9/6/2021, 11.6 9/13/21, 11.2 9/27/21, 11.1 9/30/21.....11/5/21 switched to 10 mg tablet. I am holding to stabilize for the foreseeable future. 3/25/22: 9.4, 5/6/22: 9.0, 5/30/22: 8.25, 6/7/22: 8.1, 7/722: 7.65, 8/16/22: 7.39, 9/22/22: 6.91, 10/1/22: 6.78 Medication signature.docx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynnardgirl Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 No I wouldn’t until you stabilize ! It’s been almost 2 years and I still haven’t stabilized! It can take months to years to stabilize ! Some do taper while still in withdrawals and they say it’s awful all the way through 1 1997 regular Effexor 150 mg2016-2017 up dosage to 225 tried several times to taper no luck fast taper Back on panic attacks anxiety Insomnia 2017 doing ok after a year but then insomia doctor put me onTrazodone was on Trazodone for 6 months or longer did a fast taper getting panic attacks 2018 Doctor switched me to Effexor XR an reduced my dose to 225 - down to 150 felt worse went back on regular Effexor Venlafaxine 2018 taper again, To fast tapered down to 112.5 from 150 take half twice a day 56.25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sottana Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 @Lynnardgirl that's definitely good advice.i'm just wondering though, how long are you willing to wait to stabilize? also, how are you certain you will? i'm really not trying to be triggering or anything, I just feel this way about myself often and wonder these things on a daily basis. 2008: start Lexapro 10 mg which is quickly upped to 20 mg. 2008:2013 try at least four individual times to get off Lexapro, never get lower than 5mg, settle at 15 mg. 2015: again, attempt to get off Lexapro and get to 5 mg. After 6 months, feel i'm stabilizing but go back on a higher dose because of one stressful event. 2016: go to 20 mg from 15 mg due to work stresses, hit severe tolerance for the first time and become very suicidal. 2016-2017: try viibryd and cymbata in an attempt to feel better. Also add Lamictal 150 at some point. 2017: eventually land on paxil 37.5 and Lamictal 150. January 2018: cut paxil to 25. April-July 2018: reduce Lamictal in 50 mg increments till im off August. 2018: reduce paxil to 20 mg. december 2018: dropped Paxil to 18 mg, SEVERE CRASH. March updosed to 20 mg April 11: dropped to 19.4 mg due to akathsia (still experiencing akathsia symptoms from updose) April 20: 19 mg Paxil May 4: 18.7 Paxil July 5: 18.2 July 12: 17.8 Aug 19: 17.5 Aug 26: 17.3 Oct 20: 17.1 Nov 3: 16.9, 8/17/20: 16.6 after nine month hold, 8/24/20: 16.4, 8/31/20:16.2, 9/14/2020: 16.0, 9/21/20: 15.8, 9/28/20: 15.6, 10/19/20:15.4, 10/26/20: 15.2, 11/2/20: 15.1, 11/7/20: 14.8, 3/6/2-: 14.5, 3/20/20: 14.3, 4/3/20: 13.9, 4/10/2021: 13.7. 4/21/21: 13.5, 5/5/2021: 13.1, 12.2 8/12/2021 (slowly microtapered to this number. I just can’t remember the exact dates), 11.8 9/6/2021, 11.6 9/13/21, 11.2 9/27/21, 11.1 9/30/21.....11/5/21 switched to 10 mg tablet. I am holding to stabilize for the foreseeable future. 3/25/22: 9.4, 5/6/22: 9.0, 5/30/22: 8.25, 6/7/22: 8.1, 7/722: 7.65, 8/16/22: 7.39, 9/22/22: 6.91, 10/1/22: 6.78 Medication signature.docx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysideup69 Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 5 hours ago, Lynnardgirl said: No I wouldn’t until you stabilize ! It’s been almost 2 years and I still haven’t stabilized! It can take months to years to stabilize ! Some do taper while still in withdrawals and they say it’s awful all the way through @Lynnardgirl I agree. How are you doing? I think you've had some windows? January 2008 to April 2015 Citalopram 20mg to 5mg, reducing in 50 per cent leaps. Jumped off at 5mg March 2016 used MDMA triggered setback April 2016 Citalopram 10mg October 2016 cut to 5mg, May 2017 cut to 2.5mg May 2018 used MDMA triggered setback June 2018 Citalopram 2.5mg up to 10mg, then back to 5mg July/ August 2018 7.5mg, then 10mg June 2019 updosed to 20mg Citalopram August 2019 cold switch to Venlafaxine 75mg XR Supplements; 1100mg fish oil daily; also 100mg Magnesium Glycinate. Tried Vagifem 10mcg from mid May 2021 to mid June 2021; caused depression, so stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynnardgirl Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 6 hours ago, sunnysideup69 said: @Lynnardgirl I agree. How are you doing? I think you've had some windows? Hi hope all is well with you! Yes have had some windows but in a really bad wave that seems to be lasting longer than ever before ! Just want this hell to end... How are you doing ! God bless you 1 1997 regular Effexor 150 mg2016-2017 up dosage to 225 tried several times to taper no luck fast taper Back on panic attacks anxiety Insomnia 2017 doing ok after a year but then insomia doctor put me onTrazodone was on Trazodone for 6 months or longer did a fast taper getting panic attacks 2018 Doctor switched me to Effexor XR an reduced my dose to 225 - down to 150 felt worse went back on regular Effexor Venlafaxine 2018 taper again, To fast tapered down to 112.5 from 150 take half twice a day 56.25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysideup69 Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Lynnardgirl said: Hi hope all is well with you! Yes have had some windows but in a really bad wave that seems to be lasting longer than ever before ! Just want this hell to end... How are you doing ! God bless you Oh, those waves.....but it will hopefully bring you an even better baseline of improvement. I'm okay, have also been a bit more wavey over the last 3 months, had some life stressors which set me off. I'm 8 months into stabilising on Venlafaxine. This has turned into a bit of a longer journey than I had hoped...but we will get there. January 2008 to April 2015 Citalopram 20mg to 5mg, reducing in 50 per cent leaps. Jumped off at 5mg March 2016 used MDMA triggered setback April 2016 Citalopram 10mg October 2016 cut to 5mg, May 2017 cut to 2.5mg May 2018 used MDMA triggered setback June 2018 Citalopram 2.5mg up to 10mg, then back to 5mg July/ August 2018 7.5mg, then 10mg June 2019 updosed to 20mg Citalopram August 2019 cold switch to Venlafaxine 75mg XR Supplements; 1100mg fish oil daily; also 100mg Magnesium Glycinate. Tried Vagifem 10mcg from mid May 2021 to mid June 2021; caused depression, so stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynnardgirl Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 1 minute ago, sunnysideup69 said: Oh, those waves.....but it will hopefully bring you an even better baseline of improvement. I'm okay, have also been a bit more wavey over the last 3 months, had some life stressors which set me off. I'm 8 months into stabilising on Venlafaxine. This has turned into a bit of a longer journey than I had hoped...but we will get there. What made you start taking Venlafaxine ? Did your doctor suggest it? This drug is awful to get off ! You are doing good , hopefully your just around the corner to stabilizing ! God bless you 1997 regular Effexor 150 mg2016-2017 up dosage to 225 tried several times to taper no luck fast taper Back on panic attacks anxiety Insomnia 2017 doing ok after a year but then insomia doctor put me onTrazodone was on Trazodone for 6 months or longer did a fast taper getting panic attacks 2018 Doctor switched me to Effexor XR an reduced my dose to 225 - down to 150 felt worse went back on regular Effexor Venlafaxine 2018 taper again, To fast tapered down to 112.5 from 150 take half twice a day 56.25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysideup69 Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 7 minutes ago, Lynnardgirl said: What made you start taking Venlafaxine ? Did your doctor suggest it? This drug is awful to get off ! You are doing good , hopefully your just around the corner to stabilizing ! God bless you Yes, unfortunately, I went to a psych last summer and he switched me to Venlafaxine. I'm on 75mg and just hanging in there. I've had good patches but really kindled myself from 2017-2019, so it's taking my system a long time to settle down. Fingers crossed I'll settle in the not too distant future...Also, you'll stabilize and taper again, I know it's hard waiting. But it will happen. January 2008 to April 2015 Citalopram 20mg to 5mg, reducing in 50 per cent leaps. Jumped off at 5mg March 2016 used MDMA triggered setback April 2016 Citalopram 10mg October 2016 cut to 5mg, May 2017 cut to 2.5mg May 2018 used MDMA triggered setback June 2018 Citalopram 2.5mg up to 10mg, then back to 5mg July/ August 2018 7.5mg, then 10mg June 2019 updosed to 20mg Citalopram August 2019 cold switch to Venlafaxine 75mg XR Supplements; 1100mg fish oil daily; also 100mg Magnesium Glycinate. Tried Vagifem 10mcg from mid May 2021 to mid June 2021; caused depression, so stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynnardgirl Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 15 hours ago, Adili13 said: @Lynnardgirl that's definitely good advice.i'm just wondering though, how long are you willing to wait to stabilize? also, how are you certain you will? i'm really not trying to be triggering or anything, I just feel this way about myself often and wonder these things on a daily basis. 1997 regular Effexor 150 mg2016-2017 up dosage to 225 tried several times to taper no luck fast taper Back on panic attacks anxiety Insomnia 2017 doing ok after a year but then insomia doctor put me onTrazodone was on Trazodone for 6 months or longer did a fast taper getting panic attacks 2018 Doctor switched me to Effexor XR an reduced my dose to 225 - down to 150 felt worse went back on regular Effexor Venlafaxine 2018 taper again, To fast tapered down to 112.5 from 150 take half twice a day 56.25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynnardgirl Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 I will stabilize and so will you! Sometimes when you mess up your CNS like I did it can take time I have been talking with another person on this thread and he hasn’t stabilized yet and going on 3 years! He said he is finally seeing healing but it’s been a long road! Not saying you will take this long, I have been on this medication for a long time and it’s going to take me longer to stabilize ! You will start healing a lot sooner just accept what is happening, it will make it easier to get through the withdrawals ! God bless you 1997 regular Effexor 150 mg2016-2017 up dosage to 225 tried several times to taper no luck fast taper Back on panic attacks anxiety Insomnia 2017 doing ok after a year but then insomia doctor put me onTrazodone was on Trazodone for 6 months or longer did a fast taper getting panic attacks 2018 Doctor switched me to Effexor XR an reduced my dose to 225 - down to 150 felt worse went back on regular Effexor Venlafaxine 2018 taper again, To fast tapered down to 112.5 from 150 take half twice a day 56.25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sottana Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 That’s awesome @Lynnardgirl you just made my day! Hearing from people like you on these forums makes it all worth it! Peace and love to you! Xxx 2008: start Lexapro 10 mg which is quickly upped to 20 mg. 2008:2013 try at least four individual times to get off Lexapro, never get lower than 5mg, settle at 15 mg. 2015: again, attempt to get off Lexapro and get to 5 mg. After 6 months, feel i'm stabilizing but go back on a higher dose because of one stressful event. 2016: go to 20 mg from 15 mg due to work stresses, hit severe tolerance for the first time and become very suicidal. 2016-2017: try viibryd and cymbata in an attempt to feel better. Also add Lamictal 150 at some point. 2017: eventually land on paxil 37.5 and Lamictal 150. January 2018: cut paxil to 25. April-July 2018: reduce Lamictal in 50 mg increments till im off August. 2018: reduce paxil to 20 mg. december 2018: dropped Paxil to 18 mg, SEVERE CRASH. March updosed to 20 mg April 11: dropped to 19.4 mg due to akathsia (still experiencing akathsia symptoms from updose) April 20: 19 mg Paxil May 4: 18.7 Paxil July 5: 18.2 July 12: 17.8 Aug 19: 17.5 Aug 26: 17.3 Oct 20: 17.1 Nov 3: 16.9, 8/17/20: 16.6 after nine month hold, 8/24/20: 16.4, 8/31/20:16.2, 9/14/2020: 16.0, 9/21/20: 15.8, 9/28/20: 15.6, 10/19/20:15.4, 10/26/20: 15.2, 11/2/20: 15.1, 11/7/20: 14.8, 3/6/2-: 14.5, 3/20/20: 14.3, 4/3/20: 13.9, 4/10/2021: 13.7. 4/21/21: 13.5, 5/5/2021: 13.1, 12.2 8/12/2021 (slowly microtapered to this number. I just can’t remember the exact dates), 11.8 9/6/2021, 11.6 9/13/21, 11.2 9/27/21, 11.1 9/30/21.....11/5/21 switched to 10 mg tablet. I am holding to stabilize for the foreseeable future. 3/25/22: 9.4, 5/6/22: 9.0, 5/30/22: 8.25, 6/7/22: 8.1, 7/722: 7.65, 8/16/22: 7.39, 9/22/22: 6.91, 10/1/22: 6.78 Medication signature.docx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynnardgirl Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Adili13 said: That’s awesome @Lynnardgirl you just made my day! Hearing from people like you on these forums makes it all worth it! Peace and love to you! Xxx I know this is so so tough and my heart goes out to you and every one going through this hell, but we all heal! Take care, God bless you 1997 regular Effexor 150 mg2016-2017 up dosage to 225 tried several times to taper no luck fast taper Back on panic attacks anxiety Insomnia 2017 doing ok after a year but then insomia doctor put me onTrazodone was on Trazodone for 6 months or longer did a fast taper getting panic attacks 2018 Doctor switched me to Effexor XR an reduced my dose to 225 - down to 150 felt worse went back on regular Effexor Venlafaxine 2018 taper again, To fast tapered down to 112.5 from 150 take half twice a day 56.25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sottana Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 @Lynnardgirlyou're right, i love your positivity. Thanks for taking the time to lift me up today! we need as much positivity as possible. 2008: start Lexapro 10 mg which is quickly upped to 20 mg. 2008:2013 try at least four individual times to get off Lexapro, never get lower than 5mg, settle at 15 mg. 2015: again, attempt to get off Lexapro and get to 5 mg. After 6 months, feel i'm stabilizing but go back on a higher dose because of one stressful event. 2016: go to 20 mg from 15 mg due to work stresses, hit severe tolerance for the first time and become very suicidal. 2016-2017: try viibryd and cymbata in an attempt to feel better. Also add Lamictal 150 at some point. 2017: eventually land on paxil 37.5 and Lamictal 150. January 2018: cut paxil to 25. April-July 2018: reduce Lamictal in 50 mg increments till im off August. 2018: reduce paxil to 20 mg. december 2018: dropped Paxil to 18 mg, SEVERE CRASH. March updosed to 20 mg April 11: dropped to 19.4 mg due to akathsia (still experiencing akathsia symptoms from updose) April 20: 19 mg Paxil May 4: 18.7 Paxil July 5: 18.2 July 12: 17.8 Aug 19: 17.5 Aug 26: 17.3 Oct 20: 17.1 Nov 3: 16.9, 8/17/20: 16.6 after nine month hold, 8/24/20: 16.4, 8/31/20:16.2, 9/14/2020: 16.0, 9/21/20: 15.8, 9/28/20: 15.6, 10/19/20:15.4, 10/26/20: 15.2, 11/2/20: 15.1, 11/7/20: 14.8, 3/6/2-: 14.5, 3/20/20: 14.3, 4/3/20: 13.9, 4/10/2021: 13.7. 4/21/21: 13.5, 5/5/2021: 13.1, 12.2 8/12/2021 (slowly microtapered to this number. I just can’t remember the exact dates), 11.8 9/6/2021, 11.6 9/13/21, 11.2 9/27/21, 11.1 9/30/21.....11/5/21 switched to 10 mg tablet. I am holding to stabilize for the foreseeable future. 3/25/22: 9.4, 5/6/22: 9.0, 5/30/22: 8.25, 6/7/22: 8.1, 7/722: 7.65, 8/16/22: 7.39, 9/22/22: 6.91, 10/1/22: 6.78 Medication signature.docx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynnardgirl Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 Can any one help me understand why after 16 months of holding my waves are getting worse and longer ??? I thought I was getting better than bam this wave is not going away and it’s intense! My anxiety will not let up! 1997 regular Effexor 150 mg2016-2017 up dosage to 225 tried several times to taper no luck fast taper Back on panic attacks anxiety Insomnia 2017 doing ok after a year but then insomia doctor put me onTrazodone was on Trazodone for 6 months or longer did a fast taper getting panic attacks 2018 Doctor switched me to Effexor XR an reduced my dose to 225 - down to 150 felt worse went back on regular Effexor Venlafaxine 2018 taper again, To fast tapered down to 112.5 from 150 take half twice a day 56.25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysideup69 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 4 hours ago, Lynnardgirl said: Can any one help me understand why after 16 months of holding my waves are getting worse and longer ??? I thought I was getting better than bam this wave is not going away and it’s intense! My anxiety will not let up! Hello, I'm going to hazard a guess that it's 'just' a wave. This is the nature of healing, getting better, then getting worse again. You did a fast taper in 2018 and then it took a year to catch up with you (2019). So, you were in withdrawal as of the fast taper. You went back on, switched dosage and switched type ie IR to XR to IR. So, on top of WD, that's a few changes right there. Then, it looks like before you were stable, you began to taper. So, all of this considered, I'm not surprised you are experiencing a long wave. That would be my best guess, it's purely a tricky wave, but I'm not a moderator....have you asked any of the mods whether they think it might be poopout? I'd ask, just to get their expert opinion. Then at least your mind would be put at rest and you could just focus on getting through the wave rather than worrying about 'why?' Try tagging someone and asking. Sending you a big hug, this too shall pass xxx January 2008 to April 2015 Citalopram 20mg to 5mg, reducing in 50 per cent leaps. Jumped off at 5mg March 2016 used MDMA triggered setback April 2016 Citalopram 10mg October 2016 cut to 5mg, May 2017 cut to 2.5mg May 2018 used MDMA triggered setback June 2018 Citalopram 2.5mg up to 10mg, then back to 5mg July/ August 2018 7.5mg, then 10mg June 2019 updosed to 20mg Citalopram August 2019 cold switch to Venlafaxine 75mg XR Supplements; 1100mg fish oil daily; also 100mg Magnesium Glycinate. Tried Vagifem 10mcg from mid May 2021 to mid June 2021; caused depression, so stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynnardgirl Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 8 hours ago, sunnysideup69 said: Hello, I'm going to hazard a guess that it's 'just' a wave. This is the nature of healing, getting better, then getting worse again. You did a fast taper in 2018 and then it took a year to catch up with you (2019). So, you were in withdrawal as of the fast taper. You went back on, switched dosage and switched type ie IR to XR to IR. So, on top of WD, that's a few changes right there. Then, it looks like before you were stable, you began to taper. So, all of this considered, I'm not surprised you are experiencing a long wave. That would be my best guess, it's purely a tricky wave, but I'm not a moderator....have you asked any of the mods whether they think it might be poopout? I'd ask, just to get their expert opinion. Then at least your mind would be put at rest and you could just focus on getting through the wave rather than worrying about 'why?' Try tagging someone and asking. Sending you a big hug, this too shall pass xxx What happens if it’s a poop out? Thank you so much for your reply 1997 regular Effexor 150 mg2016-2017 up dosage to 225 tried several times to taper no luck fast taper Back on panic attacks anxiety Insomnia 2017 doing ok after a year but then insomia doctor put me onTrazodone was on Trazodone for 6 months or longer did a fast taper getting panic attacks 2018 Doctor switched me to Effexor XR an reduced my dose to 225 - down to 150 felt worse went back on regular Effexor Venlafaxine 2018 taper again, To fast tapered down to 112.5 from 150 take half twice a day 56.25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysideup69 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 If it's poopout, I think you would be advised to taper. But don't take my word for that. Tag someone and ask......maybe brassmonkey. January 2008 to April 2015 Citalopram 20mg to 5mg, reducing in 50 per cent leaps. Jumped off at 5mg March 2016 used MDMA triggered setback April 2016 Citalopram 10mg October 2016 cut to 5mg, May 2017 cut to 2.5mg May 2018 used MDMA triggered setback June 2018 Citalopram 2.5mg up to 10mg, then back to 5mg July/ August 2018 7.5mg, then 10mg June 2019 updosed to 20mg Citalopram August 2019 cold switch to Venlafaxine 75mg XR Supplements; 1100mg fish oil daily; also 100mg Magnesium Glycinate. Tried Vagifem 10mcg from mid May 2021 to mid June 2021; caused depression, so stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynnardgirl Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 1 minute ago, sunnysideup69 said: If it's poopout, I think you would be advised to taper. But don't take my word for that. Tag someone and ask......maybe brassmonkey. Ok thank you 1997 regular Effexor 150 mg2016-2017 up dosage to 225 tried several times to taper no luck fast taper Back on panic attacks anxiety Insomnia 2017 doing ok after a year but then insomia doctor put me onTrazodone was on Trazodone for 6 months or longer did a fast taper getting panic attacks 2018 Doctor switched me to Effexor XR an reduced my dose to 225 - down to 150 felt worse went back on regular Effexor Venlafaxine 2018 taper again, To fast tapered down to 112.5 from 150 take half twice a day 56.25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gn11 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 I haven't posted for a while in AD. I have been tapering from Celexa for 4 years. I had a rough beginning and this forum helped me to figure out how to taper and to understand what was going on. About a month (I was at 0 .6 mg I made a couple of cuts that were larger and faster that I have in the past. One was 10 % which was my usual but 2 weeks later I was trying to experiment with another 10% cut when I accidentally made a 15% cut that is 25% in a month. I am having symptoms: worse ear ringing, mild stomach problems and increase emotional sensitivity. Right now I am at 0 .45 mg . I am wondering whether I should stay here for a while in order to stabilize or I should go up to say 0 .5 and see if I feel better . Any thoughts would be appreciated. 2006-2007 Lexapro (not sure of dose) in 2006 2007 Stopped abruptly. Developed serious wd symptom.Went back after two weeks and tapered successfully over 3 months November 2013 started 10 mg of Celexa for hormonal symptoms early 2014 cutdown Celexa to 5 mg.Attempted to get off it November 2014 and had Anxiety increased every time I used an OTC or had stress. April-May Cortisol spike problems July 2016 Started taking liquid Celexa 7.5 mg June 2021 I finished my taper en Severe anxiety and insomnia June 2022 symptoms omproved July 2023 gut issues and sleep issues contnue . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Gridley Posted May 11, 2020 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, gn11 said: should go up to say 0 .5 It's a close call. Based on your increased symptoms, my instinct says updose to 0.5 and hold there. Gridley Introduction Lexapro 20 mg since 2004. Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017. End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg Oct. 30, 2020 Jump to zero from 0.025mg. Current dose: 0.000mg 3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete. Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium End 2021 year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper. Taper is 95% complete. Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986. Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper. Current dose as of April 1: 6.8mg Taper is 91% complete. Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotics, zinc, melatonin .3mg, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gn11 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 3 hours ago, Gridley said: It's a close call. Based on your increased symptoms, my instinct says updose to 0.5 and hold there. Thank you Gridley. It is a close call. I learned my lesson not to push things too fast. I will wait a few days and see how I'm doing. I prefer not to updose...but if I continue to have symptoms I may try it. 2006-2007 Lexapro (not sure of dose) in 2006 2007 Stopped abruptly. Developed serious wd symptom.Went back after two weeks and tapered successfully over 3 months November 2013 started 10 mg of Celexa for hormonal symptoms early 2014 cutdown Celexa to 5 mg.Attempted to get off it November 2014 and had Anxiety increased every time I used an OTC or had stress. April-May Cortisol spike problems July 2016 Started taking liquid Celexa 7.5 mg June 2021 I finished my taper en Severe anxiety and insomnia June 2022 symptoms omproved July 2023 gut issues and sleep issues contnue . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artistic1 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 On 5/8/2020 at 6:20 AM, Lynnardgirl said: What happens if it’s a poop out? Thank you so much for your reply I've been wondering about this, too....is it poop out? Is it a wave? Is it the original condition coming back? (anxiety, depression, etc.) The latter possibility scares me the most, because then I have to decide if I really need the drugs or if I can just cope with the condition with my CBT and healthy living. I'm opting to accept my waves as "whatever they are," and plan to try to deal with them without the drugs. Heck - If I feel like crap WITH the drugs and also feel like crap WITHOUT the drugs, I opt for no drugs! Best of luck. Celexa - 20 mg May 2015 - March 2016 (Felt quite good)..... Celexa taper from May 2016 - Nov 2016.....Completely off by Nov. 2016. Depression and Anxiety returned June 2017 July, 2017: Zoloft = 25 mg; Aug. 2017 = 37.5 mg; Nov. 2017 = 50 mg thru Jan. 23, 2018. Jan. 2018 - May 6, 2019 = taper Zoloft from 50 mg to 12.5 mg. Aug. 11, 2019 - felt so bad that I reinstated at 25mg. Hold at this dose until Feb. 3, 2020 Feb. 4, 2020 = reduce dose to 21.875 mg. Hold for 10 weeks. April 14, 2020 = 18.75 mg. Hold for 10 weeks. June10, 2020 - start cycle of 2 weeks to taper slowly from old dose to new dose, then hold at new dose for 6 weeks. June 23, 2020 = 16.66 mg.........August 26, 2020 = 14.75 mg ....... October 28, 2020 = 13.15 mg 2021: Jan. 1 = 11.85 mg....Feb. 26 = 10.5 mg....April 23 = 9.3 mg....June 12 = 8.33 mg.... Aug. 7 = 7.05 mg.....Oct. 9 = 6.08 mg.....Dec. 4 = 5.12 mg......Jan. 21, 2022 = 4.16mg.....Mar. 26 = 3.20mg......May 7 = 1.92mg....June 11 = 1.6mg.....July 23= 1.28 mg.....Aug. 13 = 0.96 mg.....Sept. 1 =O mg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardTimes Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 I'm really trying to sort out reinstatement, and have just read this whole thread. For anyone else looking into it and go to the more recent first, here are some really short summary points from this thread: How long does it take to stabilize after a reinstatement? It all depends, there isn't an easy answer. However, some in this thread report "many months", so don't panic if you're not feeling better after a week or two. There was also a lot about when to eventually taper after reinstatement. Consensus seems to be not to taper until symptoms are pretty much gone, or at least quite tolerable. However, BrassMonkey points out (helpfully, I think) that "stable" doesn't necessarily mean "no symptoms". It means less swinging back and forth. (See Oct. 17 2015 ff) Consensus view (from main reinstatement thread) is that reinstatement, particularly after a long time at zero, can be a "crap shoot", with results pretty difficult to predict. At the same time, from my reading, it looks as though loads of people (the majority?) seem to have not too much difficulty reinstating, and are mostly concerned with tapering after a successful reinstatement. However the thread lacks specific information of examples of what reinstatement actually looks like. As in, were successful people just jumping back on to their last prescribed dose? Or did they have to slowly updose to reach stability? If so, how quickly? The closest question here comes from @JamesF on Dec 7, 2017. He seems to share my current struggle of reinstating at a very low dose and then becoming muddled about whether ongoing or different symptoms are caused by the reinstatement (meaning reduce) or just not giving it long enough to stabilize (meaning hold) or not taking a big enough dose (meaning increase). Unfortunately there is no easy answer to his/my question, other than careful symptom tracking and listening to your body. For what its worth, I'm in James's situation. Three months trying to reinstate, started at tiny dose (0.25mg Citalopram), updosing gradually to 0.75, which is still way, way below the 5mg I was at when I stopped. I tried updosing further a week ago with a bad result, leading to my current investigations. Having looked carefully at my journaling, I think I'm seeing that in fact NEW, unpleasant symptoms emerged when I reinstated (nervousness, a sense of tingling, boiling blood, etc.), and have not calmed down over these months (though I did have a nice long window just before trying last updose, and thought I had stabilized, so...???). I also notice that I get a wave of symptoms roughly 2-3 hours after taking the dose, even when I change the time of day when I take it. This further suggests the symptoms are connected to the drug reinstatement, not just regular W/D. So I'm thinking maybe my reinstatement has failed and should be reduced/tapered/quit. Might be good to hear from James or anybody else who can report with some details on successfully navigating the uncertainty of reinstatement? Also, if you are looking for a long read, @Odwina's story might be of help too... Sounds familiar so far. 1 15+ years Citalopram 10mg (sometimes 20?) 2019 Citalopram 5mg. No problem reduction. 2020 Citalopram 5mg to zero. (Feb) 2020 (Feb - mid Oct): Very rare use of 0.125 or .25mg Xanax for really bad symptoms 2020 (Feb - Nov): Occasional use of "Nytol" sleep aid (an antihistamine). 2020 Failed reinstatement: Escitalopram by accident (not Citalopram). -- using a scale, started July 27 0.5mg, doubled every week or so to reach 5mg by Aug 30. Too fast - terrible depression, quit. 2020 (Oct-current): Supplements: -- Morning: Magnesium 300mg, Omega 3(483 EPA, 360 DHA +Vit E) Night: Liquid Valerian/Passiflore/Escholtzia - French organic herbal sleep aid, 1.9mg LD Melatonin 2020 Current - new Citalopram reinstatement. (Accidentally started with Escitalopram before realizing and switching to Citalopram Oct. 30) -- using pipette method: Oct 30, 0.25mg; Nov. 4th, 0.375; Dec. 1st 0.5mg, Dec. 21st 0.75mg Jan 19: Decide reinstatement fail: Jan 21 0.625mg, Jan 28: 0.5mg Feb 8 0mg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardTimes Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Not sure anybody will read or see this, but I've just done an analysis of my own situation that might be helpful for others thinking about this question. Big caveat: The rule here is that everybody is different when it comes to reinstatement or updosing, and my experience may not at all be like your own (see above!). But for what it is worth, in my own situation: Updosing always seemed to increase severity of symptoms or introduce unusual variations on symptoms. I suddenly had a sense of blood boiling, a certain kind of adrenaline nervousness, hot flashes, heart pounding/palpitations, feeling “drugged/stoned”, mild nausea, pressure headaches, which were all new or more intense. Symptoms remained long after updosing (I don't think I've ever "stabilized" after 3 months of effort), but took about 3-5 days to diminish from the initial spike right after the updose. I seem to have chosen to updose often after a reasonably good patch (3-5 days of fairly tolerable symptoms). I think my reasoning was that the good patch indicated my body had come to tolerate the dose, and if I moved up a bit it would even further reduce symptoms. I think this was likely a mistake, as it always threw things into a tailspin. And for what it is worth, I think my three month attempt at reinstatement has likely been counter-productive and a failure, as suggested by these rather super-geek level statistics: In the 49 days before reinstating I had: 24% Red, bad days of heavy symptoms 20% Yellow, so-so days of intrusive symptoms 55% Green, good to symptom free days In the 78 records after reinstatement, I had: 24% Red or “orange” bad to pretty bad days 42% Yellow, so-so days 33% Green to yellow/green pretty good days. This indicates bad days did not diminish percentage-wise, and green days went down while yellow days went up. Even though this is really not an exact science, this suggests I was better off in the period before the reinstatement. So my advice: TRACK YOUR SYMPTOMS even (especially) when you no longer see the point. It doesn't have to be hyper complicated, just note how much you sleep and somehow quantify your symptoms (there's lots of advice on here somewhere about various tracking strategies. For me numerical values started to just seem too complicated - now a good is green, bad is red, so-so is yellow, and I can do in-betweens too, like orange or light green. 2 15+ years Citalopram 10mg (sometimes 20?) 2019 Citalopram 5mg. No problem reduction. 2020 Citalopram 5mg to zero. (Feb) 2020 (Feb - mid Oct): Very rare use of 0.125 or .25mg Xanax for really bad symptoms 2020 (Feb - Nov): Occasional use of "Nytol" sleep aid (an antihistamine). 2020 Failed reinstatement: Escitalopram by accident (not Citalopram). -- using a scale, started July 27 0.5mg, doubled every week or so to reach 5mg by Aug 30. Too fast - terrible depression, quit. 2020 (Oct-current): Supplements: -- Morning: Magnesium 300mg, Omega 3(483 EPA, 360 DHA +Vit E) Night: Liquid Valerian/Passiflore/Escholtzia - French organic herbal sleep aid, 1.9mg LD Melatonin 2020 Current - new Citalopram reinstatement. (Accidentally started with Escitalopram before realizing and switching to Citalopram Oct. 30) -- using pipette method: Oct 30, 0.25mg; Nov. 4th, 0.375; Dec. 1st 0.5mg, Dec. 21st 0.75mg Jan 19: Decide reinstatement fail: Jan 21 0.625mg, Jan 28: 0.5mg Feb 8 0mg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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