☼ Petunia: recovering from 13 years of antidepressant use

[Petunia]

One of the most important first hurdles that all frightened newbie's has to jump through is the experience of feeling bad after a small taper, endure the discomfort without panicking and then experience the slow increase and bumps and jerks to eventually feeling normal again. WITHOUT CHANGING DRUGS OR DRUS DOSAGES!!! 

 

 trust your bodies' natural processes to heal the brain ON ITS OWN ........

 

 

 

 

 Waking up very anxious this morning I think I could feel in the background something akin to craving for more Xanax to take off the edge. But I just became aware of that sensation and let it go, got up and went about the day the way I planned it waiting for the anxiety to go away. It did and then came back but went away again. WITHOUT DRUGS..

 

 

[bubble]

That's really soooo beautiful, Petu. And of course, absolutely true. Will post it on my FB...

 

Especially how our contemporary global society doesn't allow us to deal with our pain or experience any other natural emotions just because they labeled them  'negative'. It's become a major social misdemeanor to say you are feeling down. There is this imperative to always be on the top, think positively, be high and optimistic. If you are not, you get pathologised, various diagnoses are thrown at you accompanied by meds. Even the excessive use of antibiotics, that imperative to get an instant fix, not allow oneself a moment of distress or even discomfort.

 

Thank you so much Alto for your  words of encouragement! One of my other bad habits is that when I feel better I immediately tell myself: that too shall pass.

 

Now I'm at least trying to enjoy it as much as I can while it lasts For years now I've actually been aware of that and try to cultivate the habit of counting my blessings. When my therapist asks me how I feel, I tell her: it could be a lot worse. So instead of thinking: oh I again woke up with a headache, I feel anxious, doing something is like wading waist-deep through water, etc. I focus on thinking: I slept for 8 straight hours (while so many people can put a few hours of sleep together), I can do some little things, go out for a walk ( I need a lot of pushing but I can do it

 

Lately I was able to deal with many things I was unable for the past 3 months while in the worst of withdrawal: my bills have piled up (some of them last reminders), not to mention clothes which I was able to wash but not able to iron or even sort out so would just push them into the wardrobe. Now I'm taking it out bit by bit, sorting my bills and will wash my windows which badly needed washing 3 months ago but I wasn't able to do it.

 

Windows washed will be a sure sign of recovery

[alex]

Hello Petu; long time no see....how are you my good friend?

[Petunia]

Hi Alex,

Thanks for asking.

 

I'm not doing too well.  I wouldn't say I'm worse, but I don't seem to be getting significantly better either. 

 

My days consist of mornings and early afternoons of feeling physically very uncomfortable, which prevents me from doing much of anything apart from whatever I can find to distract me.  Nothing I do during these times brings any sense of pleasure or meaning or enjoyment, I'm like a malfunctioning robot, desperately trying to find its own reset button.

 

Usually, at some point mid afternoon or early evening, the physical sensations start to reduce,  and I feel a bit more relaxed, but often that's when the exhaustion and depression starts, as the reality of my 'life' comes into clear focus again.  Then that brings a round of cognitive based fear and panic.

 

I am having windows and waves, but for me a window is perhaps a couple of days where the symptoms change slightly or don't seem so bad.  Its all starting to become a bit of a blur in my memory though.

 

The temperature fluctuations are back with a vengeance,  waking me through the night again, mostly during the early hours, so I'm assuming its cortisol related, right now, my skin feels cold, I'm shaking on the inside with a constant kind of vibration, but if I cover myself with more clothes, or do something to get warm, it will cause me to overheat suddenly, that's what happens.

 

Its summer here and even though we have had very weird weather patterns, its generally quite warm, to most people, the temperature here at the moment is very pleasant.  But I'm struggling.  My body thermostat is broken.  Its reacting wildly to the slightest change in external temperature, which causes even more stress when I try and do anything.

 

For example, walking from the outside air into the cooler temperature of stores, it has me going into a state of shock almost, I'm shaking and shivering, not able to think properly, just wanting to get back outside.  Yesterday I got myself prepared and took a jacket with me, but it wasn't enough.  Everyone else is walking around in their summer clothes, shorts, short sleeves, and here is me, two layers of clothes plus a jacket and I'm freezing.

 

I had to drag some branches out to the road side yesterday, for green waste week.  It wasn't particularly hot and it only took me about 15 minutes, it wasn't difficult, the branches weren't very big or heavy, but after about 10 minutes I felt like I was going to faint.  My heart suddenly started to beat very fast and hard and everything around me went black for a few seconds, this is not like me, I used to very fit, could work in the garden for hours and could lift heavy things and carry them around.

 

Day after day I seem to be fading away in my room while the rest of the world is moving ahead.  In the evenings, when the physical symptoms are gone, if I'm not too exhausted or depressed, I can sometimes imagine a better future for myself, but without fail, the morning brings a return of the shaking, temperature fluctuations, nausea, dizziness and waves of intense physical fear with its associated cognitive effects on memory and other higher functions.

 

I'm struggling in the few relationships I have left, as my life shrinks, smaller and smaller, I have less and less to offer, and relate less and less to what their lives consist of.

 

I've lost my sense of humor.  The scary, fragile reality of life is too close, I'm too raw with out of control emotion to be able to relax and see anything as being funny.  Sometimes in the evenings, I find myself able to smile.

 

Its difficult, listening to my daughter and her friends laughing and giggling in the other room.  They are young and healthy and excited about life and their futures, they live in the moment, secure in their sense of self and their ability to control destiny.  Its a relief when they leave to spend the night at someone else's house.  Of course I'm happy that my daughter and her friends are healthy and have good lives, but its difficult to experience the extreme contrast with my own situation and what seems like my increasing loss of control over more and more aspects of my life.

 

Its been a long time since I've had one of those windows where I've actually been able to imagine a better future and really believe it.  I have windows where my symptoms decrease or change for a few days, or I feel better earlier in the day, but this pattern doesn't change. 

 

I think I'm losing hope.

 

Earlier today, I was thinking, I probably would have been ok if I hadn't started taking the stimulant meds for ADD.  I had been in withdrawal from Lexapro for about 6 months, without knowing that's what it was,  I had probably started to heal.  That was when the extreme sensitivity to to sound started.

 

......anyway I didn't mean to write this much, but seeing as I'm here now, might as well write a brief update about the probiotics.

 

I've been taking them for about 6 days I think.  Felt a slightly better mood for the first two days, but that was most likely a coincidence or a placebo effect.  I became constipated and bloated for 3 days, but I'm back to normal now.  I probably didn't need them in the first place I don't have any gut issues I'm aware of, but I will keep taking them, see what happens.

 

I read an article about The Dark Night of the Soul.  Parts of it sounded a lot like what I'm going through.

 

from:  http://exploring-life.ca/dark-night-of-the-soul-1/

 

  "A dark night of the soul demands that we recreate our beliefs.

 

In essence, a dark night kidnaps us from the false security of our beliefs, traditions, and faith and carries us into a mercurial space in which we cannot find our identity, purpose, or meaning. A dark night is a physical, mental and spiritual abyss in which questions such as, “Why am I here?” are sources of pain, suffering, and internal torture."

 

"In the midst of a dark night, each day becomes an improvisation on the theme survival.

 

We are perfectly healthy, yet find that each breath we take feels ponderous and heavy. We may be completely financially independent, perhaps even wealthy, but have absolutely no clue as to what we should do with our lives. We suffer from a deep longing for an experience we cannot grasp or define.

 

The daily routines of waking, working, relaxing, and resting fail to resolve our angst, and in a curious way exacerbate a desire we cannot understand. Everything we once thought of as providing stability in life has fallen into ruin and decay."

 

I think that for some people, coming off medication can be a catalyst for other changes.  I was asking the big questions long before I went on Zoloft in the mid 90's.  Perhaps medicating myself was a way of putting off having to answer those questions for a couple more decades.

 

I have a very strong feeling that even if my physical symptoms suddenly disappeared overnight and never came back, I would still be right in the middle of a 'Dark Night'. My old life is over, I wouldn't want to go back to it if I could.

 

But who am I now?

 

........ I need to create a new identity, a new life, just the thought of it is overwhelming, I'm tired.

 

 

[alex]

Petu, I am sorry you are going through such pain.

I know what you are going through, because I've been there;believe me.

It wasn't until the 11th or more months that I started to get some relief from all the horrible stuff you are describing.

If I am not wrong you are 9 months off.

I don't want to scare you, but for me the nine month mark was the worst.As a matter of fact, I thought I was gonna die.

I was very close to suicide.

But here I am at almost 18 months off, and doing a lot better; A LOT better.

I still have the scary waves, but the windows are clearer and longer, and I am starting to enjoy life again, I thought I would never be able to do that again.

You have been doing a wonderful job handling and coping with WD.

Be patient, be gentle to yourself, have faith, keep on walking, and you will get your reward.

EVERYBODY who stays on the path gets better.I am proof of that.

I am not out of the woods but certainly not in the pits of hell anymore.

And I am glad I am not the same Alex I was before the AD, because that Alex wasn't good, that Alex took me to the AD.

People who gets into this tunnel and makes it to the other side, experiences a sense of health, peace and wisdom beyond their imagination.

Sending you healing vibes all the way to Australia.

 

Hugs,A.

[bubble]

Oh Petu, I feel so yukki myself that I can't write much but will try to say a bit and then whine on my thread.

 

As MammaP says: This too shall pass. That's my mantra in difficult times. Pure endurance. I don't try to find meaning, I just endure and wait for the time to pass, for things to run their course.

 

I'm younger than you and my belief system was completely shattered when I had a nervous breakdown at the age of 19. I lived in the dark night without a soul for years. I was studying and going to my classes as a robot that you describe. Through those automatic motions sometimes interrupted by severe anxiety and panic attacks I managed to graduate and work, find a boyfriend who I wasn't really attracted to but he could put up with my malfunctioning.

 

I got married to him after 6 years because I couldn't bear the thought of breaking up with him. Then when I was 30 the fog started lifting. I became alive but didn't know who I was. I definitely wasn't that courageous, know-it-all 19 year old before the break down nor that shadow of a person sluggishly dragging around for 10 years. 

 

I divorced a great chap with a flat, holiday house, car, steady income and went into a rented accommodation in the biggest self-defining gesture of my life. Instead of searching for big meanings, worrying about the geopolitical situation, etc. I decided to be very selfish and focus on myself only and my little universe. I had to discover what I like and want. 

 

(I felt great and alive and decided to go off ADs but knew nothing about tapering so was transported to hell on two occasions: after quitting Zoloft 3 years ago and this autumn after quitting Lexapro which did me a great service of finding you

 

For me the biggest truth was discovering the truth of that old cliche: the beauty of small things, freedom from fulfilling expectations of others (especially internalised expectations)..

 

I'm not sure I managed to convey what I wanted: focus on your little universe, on your innermost desires and then the big truths and the big world will fall in alignment.

 

(says the wise woman bubble , feeling a bit better than when beginning to write this...

 

big hug

 

PS As a former churchgoer, I appreciate the poetry of the Bible so I hope you don't mind me quoting this. In English it says its Ecclesiastes...

 

Everything Has Its Time

3 To everything there is a season,
A time for every purpose under heaven:

2 A time to be born,
    And a time to die;
A time to plant,
    And a time to pluck what is planted;
3 A time to kill,
    And a time to heal;
A time to break down,
    And a time to build up;
4 A time to weep,
    And a time to laugh;
A time to mourn,
    And a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones,
    And a time to gather stones;
A time to embrace,
    And a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to gain,
    And a time to lose;
A time to keep,
    And a time to throw away;
7 A time to tear,
    And a time to sew;
A time to keep silence,
    And a time to speak;
8 A time to love,
    And a time to hate;
A time of war,
    And a time of peace.

[bubble]

And thank you for a wonderful post Alex!

 

I too find it comforting

[Petunia]

I am not out of the woods but certainly not in the pits of hell anymore.

And I am glad I am not the same Alex I was before the AD, because that Alex wasn't good, that Alex took me to the AD.

People who gets into this tunnel and makes it to the other side, experiences a sense of health, peace and wisdom beyond their imagination.

 

I'm not in the pits of hell anymore either, I do tend to visit there for brief periods still and each time scares me because one of the features is that I completely lose my memory and imagination and so each moment in hell is an eternal now.

 

Thank you for reminding me that this painful process is one of growth and learning.  I'm starting to see more clearly how my naive lack of insight and understanding led me to think drugs would be a long term answer to problems.  I'm also seeing clearly how over the years, they turned me into someone I was never meant to be, although, I have to admit, the combination of Lexapro and Duramine led me somewhere I never would have gone naturally and I discovered and abandoned a very deep layer of my false self.

 

 

I divorced a great chap with a flat, holiday house, car, steady income and went into a rented accommodation in the biggest self-defining gesture of my life. Instead of searching for big meanings, worrying about the geopolitical situation, etc. I decided to be very selfish and focus on myself only and my little universe. I had to discover what I like and want. ......

 

 

.......For me the biggest truth was discovering the truth of that old cliche: the beauty of small things, freedom from fulfilling expectations of others (especially internalised expectations)..

 

I'm not sure I managed to convey what I wanted: focus on your little universe, on your innermost desires and then the big truths and the big world will fall in alignment........

 

 

 

Thank you for sharing some of your life story Bubble.  I admire you for having the courage and integrity to walk away from  a 'comfortable' relationship because you knew it wasn't for your highest good.  Many people live lives of quiet desperation (not my words) out of fear of leaving what feels safe.

 

I guess I'm sort of at that place now, well I would be if I was recovered.  But for me, it wasn't as much a self defining moment, more of a stumbling towards the nearest exit of a building which was on fire and falling down all around me.  I escaped and saved my daughter from damage (I hope)

 

and now as you suggest, my task is to focus on my own inner world and discover what truth lies there.  I think I understand what you mean, that the outside world is nothing more than a reflection of my own thoughts, perceptions and understandings.  Once I get clear on the inside, the outside will shine with that reflected clarity.

 

 

PS As a former churchgoer, I appreciate the poetry of the Bible so I hope you don't mind me quoting this. In English it says its Ecclesiastes...

 

Everything Has Its Time

 To everything there is a season, .......

 

 

I'm also a former churchgoer, I used to find a lot of comfort there.  But then our church had a change of Pastor and I could no longer relate to his interpretations of the bible.

 

The synchronicities have been coming fast these days, earlier today I was actually thinking of trying to go back to church.  I introduced my Mum to my church before I left and she has been going ever since and often asks me if I want to go with her.  I actually would go again, but 9:30 in the morning is really difficult for me now.  Right now, its 7:30pm and I would get in the car and go with her right now if there was a service.

 

I will go again though, its on my to do list along with going back to the gym and getting a pet.

 

I bought some stage 1 infant formula yesterday.  This morning I mixed one of the packets with about 100ml of water and drank it.  It didn't taste quite as awful as I thought it would, sweeter and much more creamy than I expected.  Not sure if its going to help but I figure that its a food designed for humans who are in an accelerated state of brain/nervous system growth, so maybe there's something in there which might help.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Hi Petu,

 

It is amazing that we seem to be having some of the same difficulties. My mental state is up and down but what I am struggling with is the very same body temperature issue. You described it to a 't'. How weird.

 

I hope we both reach a window soon.... I think of you a lot and always look forward to your posts.

[Petunia]

I'm sorry you are still struggling CW, but I'm glad you are still here, I miss your posts and often wonder how you are doing.

 

It is amazing that we seem to be having some of the same difficulties. My mental state is up and down but what I am struggling with is the very same body temperature issue. You described it to a 't'. How weird.

 

 

Yes its weird and puzzling, because lots of people not going through medication withdrawal seem to be having some of the same symptoms too, and often at the same time.

 

My Mum, who is in her 80's and well past the hot flashes stage of menopause has started having them again, several times a day she said.

 

I regularly visit other non-medication related sites which look at various symptoms from other perspectives and I see the same patterns of symptoms, some symptoms, not all of the ones we have here.

 

What I've noticed is that migraine, an increase in sleeping problems, general body pain, dizziness and temperature fluctuations seem to be particularly vulnerable to being influenced by certain energy fluctuations coming from the sun.

 

Its complicated and most of it is beyond my understanding, but I sometimes look at the space weather sites and listen to the many commentary channels on youtube and I've noticed that some of my symptoms get much worse at the time of a CME (coronal mass ejection), but not when the energy from it apparently hits the earth a couple of days later.  Other symptoms seem to increase when there is a fast solar wind hitting earth.

 

So far, what I've figured out for myself is that when the sun is less active, my temperature regulation problems settle down.  Its probably not quite that simple, but there is some kind of correlation there.

 

I'm really starting to believe that changing patterns of energy from our sun have an effect on certain energy sensitive creatures here on earth, including animals.  The fact that we have been made more sensitive due to medication withdrawal, makes us vulnerable to all kinds of changes in our environment.

 

There is a lot more than heat and light which comes from the sun.

 

 

[areyouthere]

I'm sorry that you are struggling right now Petu and am impressed with the clarity with which you express what you are experiencing emotionally. 

 

I don't know about you, but for me expressing what I am feeling can itself be a way to reconnect disconnected ideas about who I am. It's like the very act of having to string together words to explain something can almost serve as a drawing or pictorial representation of who we are or what we are becoming.

 

This is what I find useful when I see my psychologist. When I actually SAY what I am thinking or feeling I can almost understand where I have been and where I am suppose to head or at least could choose to if I want to.

 

The solar flare idea is intriguing to me. I'm going to look into that. It sounds like interesting reading and worth paying attention to.

 

I hope that you feel better soon. It's funny how you would think that healing would feel GOOD when sometimes , in the case off WD and the brain it is a painful process. Or can be.

 

Take care & I look forward to hearing more.

 

RU

[Petunia]

I don't know about you, but for me expressing what I am feeling can itself be a way to reconnect disconnected ideas about who I am. It's like the very act of having to string together words to explain something can almost serve as a drawing or pictorial representation of who we are or what we are becoming.

 

 

I completely agree and it seems to be quite a 'normal' way these days, for people to work through issues, troubleshoot problems, consolidate ideas and find solutions. I don't know if this is true, but women seem to need to talk more when they have a problem to sort out, but men, in general work things out alone, maybe that's a cultural thing.

 

There seems to be a difference between actually saying something out loud and writing it, saying something makes it more real, perhaps its got more to do with having someone else hear it though.

 

I've always journalled my way through my problems, been doing that since my mid teens.

 

Emotions are abstract and illogical, the kind of function associated with right brain systems, maybe by talking or writing about them, they get somehow transformed into their left brain equivalent so they can be dealt with from a more balanced perspective.

 

Thank you for your comments RU, you got me thinking. 

[Petunia]

I had quite a good day yesterday, low symptoms and my mood was up from early in the day, which is unusual.  Hope came back along with confidence and positive thoughts about the future.

 

I slept better last night and wasn't woken up with temperature fluctuations.  The early morning 'downloads' of waves of emotion and memories, which used to have me pinned to my bed in agony for hours have reduced considerably.  I still get them, but the intensity is about 10% of what they were and it only lasts about an hour at the most.

 

Woke up in a bit of a wave again today though, not very bad, but I've had increased tinnitus, dizziness, DR and some depression, thankfully, anxiety is still low.  I went for a long walk a while ago and still no waves of negative emotions overwhelming me, which is what has been happening for the last couple of years every time I tried to walk.

 

I managed to sit on a bench for about 15 minutes, watching the fountain and water birds and feel sort of neutral and almost relaxed, there was no urge to hurry up and get to the safety of home, which is how its been.

 

I've been completely off all meds for 8 months now.

 

I'm concerned about my sister, she is 4 years younger than me and has an almost identical medication history to me, there are a few differences and she has had two major depression episodes in her life, which she has been hospitalized for, which I haven't.  We were both diagnosed with adult ADD at the end of 2010.  She tolerated the stimulant medication and has been on a high dose of it ever since.  At first, it seemed to help her, but not any more and her physical health is getting worse.  I'm worried there may be some of Dr. Breggin's 'spellbinding' going on.

 

I wish I could get better faster so I could be more supportive of my family.  I'm recovering, but its so slow.

[bubble]

Dear Petu, I'm so very happy to read this!

 

(Even if there are some more waves coming ;(  

 

It gives me hope. It sounds almost like a miracle, when you are at your end, think you can't endure it any more...things clear!

 

you think you will never recover, Humpty Dumpty can't be put together again but you start feeling as a person again.

 

we must remember this for the future!

[mammaP]

That is lovely to see Petu, I'm so glad you are feeling better. Sorry about your sister though, it's

awful when someone is suffering and you can't do anything. I hope that she wakes up to the fact 

that medication isn't working and allows you to help her to get off it. 

 

I find that part really, really hard, not telling everyone I know to get off their medication! If they ask 

then I can help, otherwise they would all have me back on the psych ward! Sadly almost everyone

I know is taking some kind of medication! It's amazing how many people admit to taking it once

the guard goes down!

[Nikki]

Petu when you took your last medication on May 7, 2013 did you just stop the 2.5mgs. Lexapro and Dex.?  And have been recovering since then?

 

Would you say that you were caused problems by so many medications?  And do you feel that you are better off now than when you were being prescribed so many meds.?

 

Glad you are feeling better...

[Petunia]

Proof that enduring the extreme levels of anxiety during withdrawal makes you more courageous in general:

 

I just climbed up a ladder and sprayed a wasp nest which was being built in the gutter of my roof.  I've sprayed nests from the ground before, where I could just spray and run, but this time I had to spray and climb down the ladder before I could run for safety.

 

 

when you took your last medication on May 7, 2013 did you just stop the 2.5mgs. Lexapro and Dex.?  And have been recovering since then?

 

Would you say that you were caused problems by so many medications?  And do you feel that you are better off now than when you were being prescribed so many meds.?

 

My drug history is complicated and my signature doesn't explain it very well, if you read the first few posts in my thread, it gives a clearer picture.  I was last (regularly) on an anti-depressant - Lexapro in 2010, too fast taper around the middle of the year, but I have taken other meds since then along with trying to reinstate and try Prozac..... all before finding this site.

 

I completely believed the chemical imbalance myth and for years thought that I just needed to find the right combination of drugs to get my brain chemicals tweaked just right, and then I would feel 'normal' and be able to behave more 'normally' and be content to spend hours cleaning the house, working in a meaningless job, chatting about celebrity gossip, watching TV and cooking the same meals day after day after day..... like everyone else seemed to be happy to do.

 

When I went 'shopping' for a doctor to prescribe me stimulants to treat my ADD, it wasn't because I thought I had ADD, it was because from research and a few experiments with nicotine patches, I had come to the conclusion that my dopamine was out of balance and the best way to fix it legally and safely was to get put on ADD medication.  Funny thing is, it turns out I did have ADD after all , according to the rare psychiatrist here in Australia who specializes in adult ADD, most psychiatrists here wont treat adult ADD, general doctors here aren't licensed to prescribe stimulant meds.

 

Knowing what I know now, I think the combination of drugs which did me the most harm was when I was on Lexapro and Duromine at the same time.  I felt great, best time of my life, or so it felt at the time.  But I hardly slept, my personality completely changed and I made choices and decisions I never would have even considered previously. In hindsight, I can see that this combination made me manic, that's what it was and mania can often feel very pleasant.  I took unacceptable risks and was very irresponsible. It scares me to think about it now, I'm very lucky I didn't get in more trouble than I did and no one (besides me) got hurt.

 

I think that year did some major damage to my nervous system.

 

I got serotonin syndrome from a week of St Johns Wort, Dexamphetamine and eating lots of turkey, I'm not certain, but I had the symptoms of it and that's what I had been taking and eating for about a week.

 

I wouldn't say I feel better now, I'm in protracted withdrawal, I hardly have a life at all, its a major accomplishment if I get to the store to do my grocery shopping... I find most 'normal' things stressful and overwhelming.  Can put my nose in a wasp nest and spray it though

 

I don't have a choice Nikki, I can't take any meds now even if I wanted to, everything has an adverse effect and has me feeling worse.  Trying Prozac and trying to reinstate Lexapro early last year both had me suicidal within days.  I don't mean the kind of suicidal where you have had enough and want to escape from the pain and suffering, but the kind where you suddenly get violent impulses out of no where which weren't previously part of your normal thought patterns.

 

Even supplements cause my symptoms to get worse now, I've just started having problems with fish oil caps, I bought a different brand last time and they seem to be increasing my anxiety, its hard to tell what causes what these days, but I have ordered more of the kind I was taking before.

 

Mornings are still very difficult because of one set of symptoms or another.  If its not the hypersensitivity to cortisol induced fight or flight type symptoms, then I seem to be depressed, feeling hopeless and emotionless with waves of DP/DR as I try and navigate my way through the day.

 

But last night I watched a movie of a true story with a theme about a kind of justice which used to be something I felt strongly about...... and those old feelings came back, I cared again and a few tears came into my eyes.  It was such a pleasant surprise.  I was once again connecting with a part of the real me, the pre-drug me, the person who valued truth and justice for all of humanity, above her own personal safety.

 

I think I will end here for today on this positive note.

[Nikki]

Thanks for sharing....

 

I totally agree and believe that for myself that my nervous system is shot.  Various levels, well maybe two:  drugs of course and rebuilding my life career wise and financially.  The stress and worry from both have me in a total state of anxiety most of the time.

 

I do wish people who got off this Merry-Go-Round could come back and post about healing.

 

Celexa cause mania for me.  i am a little brain dead, so can you please tell me what you experienced again when you tried Serzone?

 

My mother who takes it for years said (one of the doctors told her to increase it) and when she did she was 'off'.  She said it was in her head a bad reaction and after two weeks she reduced back to her original dose and felt better.

 

How did you stop the Serzone?

 

Thank goodness for this site

[alex]

Hello my brave friend.

Good for the wasp spraying!!

If I'm not mistaken you are 9 months off;I know everybody is different, but for me the 9 months mark was the WORST.

 Hang in there Petu, it will get better.

 

Hugs, A.

[Petunia]

  i am a little brain dead, so can you please tell me what you experienced again when you tried Serzone?

 

 

How did you stop the Serzone?

 

 

I switched from Zoloft to Serzone.  It increased my anxiety, I think it made me more irritable too, but I didn't realize and just kept taking it, thinking it was helping, I was completely 'spellbound' on all these meds.  The reason I stopped taking it was because it was being taken off the market here.

 

Stopped taking Serzone one day and started Lexapro the next, just like my doctor had told me.

[Nikki]

I think it did exacerbate anxiety too. 

 

Huga

[EternalOptimist]

Amazing journey Petu. Thumbs up. Inspirational.

I wish you continued improvement of course and believe it will come.

EO

[EternalOptimist]

Petu, I am so sorry u r not feeling well and thank u for posting on my thread nevertheless. The link on cortisol a.m.'s is ao helpful, thank you.

I hope u feel better, of course, and soon.

Best,

EO

[AndyPandy]

Petu,

I'm glad you're feeling better, and life is getting a bit easier. (Note to everybody: this is my very first post!)

Like you, I was on a lot of stimulants for years, and it took me a while to realize that--between the stimulants and the sedatives--I never really got any good sleep, and that I was extremely worn out when I got off of the meds. 

It took me a while (nearly 2 years) to normalize my sleep; I didn't know about magnesium at the time, and I wasn't giving myself enough protein, either.I also had a lot of your symptoms--the visual/auditory overstimulation, the hair loss (tho that had happened to me years before, as well), etc. 

For me, adrenal repair, primarily through the use of regular and sort of high doses of Vitamin C, has really made a difference (in addition to the magnesium). I also take SAM-e, which has been very helpful, eat a lot of salmon and take fish oil. And I try to remember to eat seaweed regularly, to get a lot of the "small" minerals and micronutrients that I don't normally get. 

I also exercise regularly. When I was titrating, the best I could do, some days, was just walk around the block. Then I walked longer distances. My physical strength was down the toilet for quite some time. Not only had I put on a lot of weight, I was carrying more fat and less muscle (which is not a distinction many talk about or make, but it is important).

I've been going to the gym for nearly a year, and have been doing progressive weight training for the last 4-5 months. That has caused major transformations for me. The overstimulation has eased, I can focus a lot better (though the supplements and protein have helped with that, too), and my stamina is pretty darn good.

Well, I'll stop now. And please don't feel like you have to respond--I just wanted to share a little bit of my story with you, and say welcome.

[Petunia]

Hi AndyPandy,

Thank you for posting and sharing your story, its inspiring and gives me hope, there have been some similarities in the meds we have taken and I often think my nervous system may have been damaged beyond repair.

 

As I was reading your story, questions kept coming into my mind like - how long after you had been off meds was it before you could exercise properly, the kind where your heart rate goes up, without it making you feel worse?  And, when did you start taking Sam -e and did it help right away or did it make you feel worse at all?  I tried sam-e and it made my anxiety worse.  I seem to be having problems with fish oil too, but it so hard to tell.

 

Perhaps you could write your story in our 'success stories' section, I'm sure it would provide hope and inspiration for a lot of people.

 

Seeing as I'm here, might as well write a little update.

 

I've had stomach cramps and diarrhea for two days, seems to have settled down now.  I have no idea if its related to withdrawal or something else.  I've been taking a daily probiotic for about two weeks. Been having one serving of infant formula for 'breakfast' for the last 7 days, it was something I was able to ingest early in the day and seemed to be giving me some energy earlier in the day, its hard to tell because nothing seems to make much of a difference.

 

The weather here has suddenly got very hot again, after a particularly cold week.  Its not quite as hot as that flash of heat two weeks ago, but this time, its just not cooling down at night.  I don't go out very often due to daytime agoraphobia, but I had been able to get out easier during the afternoons, but with this heat, and my daughter having the car on most days, I find myself a bit trapped now, even when my symptoms are not too bad, I don't want to risk going out in the heat to walk because just walking down the drive to collect the mail makes me feel like I'm about to pass out.

 

But this morning, I was feeling claustrophobic, been awake since 3am, had a bad night, even with the window open and fan on, I just couldn't get cool.  My skin kept feeling cold, but hot on the inside.  So I did two very unusual things for me.  I got up and had a shower at 6am and I went for a walk around the park at 8:30.  It was hot outside already, not too bad while I was walking under trees, but awful in the sun, the wind was hot and dry.

 

Thankfully, the waves of negative emotions I would get while walking have gone for good, now I just feel emotionally flat and generally miserable.  When I was half way around the park, the fingers in my left hand started to tingle and go numb.  I started to worry about that, wondering if that was a sign of some kind of permanent damage, or just a random symptom.  Its been about an hour and my little finger still feels strange.  For about half an hour after I got home, I felt worse, temperature fluctuations and waves of nausea, but it settled down.  I'm definitely feeling better earlier in the day than what I was a year ago, able to read and understand what I'm reading, I can sometimes write earlier in the day and now today, I walked.  But I have to be so careful.

 

Spraying the wasp nest has been an ongoing process, it took about 3 days before I completely got rid of the wasps, I had to keep climbing up the ladder and spraying it.  One morning I got up there at 6am, thought they had gone and gave the nest what I thought was one last spray and a bunch of wasps started crawling out, so with my heart beating like crazy, I quickly climbed back down the ladder.  That little burst of stress effected me for most of the day I think.

 

Now the wasps are gone,  I might be able to feel more relaxed sitting outside again. First it was the back fence, no privacy because my neighbor took half of it down, then the rest blew down in a storm. Right after we got the new fence, the wasps arrived. Whenever I went out there, there were always wasps flying around and I didn't know where they were coming from, it wasn't until I climbed up a ladder and looked into the roof gutter that I saw the nest.  It just seems that its been one thing after another, stopping me from doing the things which aid recovery..... do they really?  Maybe its just time and everything else is about distraction and symptom reduction.

 

I was doing some CBT modules which JanCarol had written about in her thread.  It wasn't helping at all, I didn't think it would, but previously when I had tried using CBT methods, I would get incredibly angry and frustrated, then depressed, blaming myself in some way because it wasn't working, so I must be doing something wrong.  But yesterday, while working through the exercises and realizing they just didn't apply to me, I felt calm and reassured that this isn't psychological or cognitive and so I can't think and behave myself better, it takes some of the pressure off.  I have to try harder to avoid exposing myself to any kind of information or ideas based on CBT techniques, when they don't work, I blame myself and feel even more hopeless and label myself as a failure, which is emotional reasoning and labeling. 

 

That seems to be it for today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Petunia]

I don't think I've ever posted twice in one day, its getting dark here now and thankfully its cooled down, there is a nice breeze, I'm feeling quite a bit better.

 

But about 1pm I was feeling exhausted and miserable so I tried to have a nap, not usually possible for me during the day because my hyper-stimulated state prevents me from sleeping.  So that's what happened at first today, I would start to doze off and then my body would start twitching and I would be jolted away in a panic.  That happened a few times, then I fell asleep, but was woken suddenly by a nightmare, or maybe it was a daymare because it was daytime.

 

I was on a balcony at the top of a sky scraper type building.  My ex-partner (not husband) was there with me and so was my daughter, but she was younger than she is now.  I'm not sure what had happened previously or why we were there, but suddenly, my boyfriend started to grab me and was struggling to push me towards the railings, I was fighting to get away, but he was much stronger than me, I realized that he wanted to push me over the edge and was trying to do just that.  In the dream, I was fighting for my life, but I was getting weaker and weaker and I knew that I wasn't going to be able to save myself. The horror I felt was extreme. My daughter was much younger and she was watching, in shock, scared, not knowing what to do.  Then I woke up suddenly and it felt so real.  I was awake, but I had the feeling of falling through the air, knowing that I was about to hit the ground, I felt what it was like to know the end was coming any second and there was nothing I could do now.  It was like I experienced the worst kind of resistance and internal struggle, a denial of reality.  There was no acceptance, not even in those final moments.

 

I walked around the house, trying to shake off the feelings, but very close to panic.  I wondered why I had dreamed such a thing about him because he wasn't naturally a violent or abusive person.  Although the ending of our relationship/friendship was quite traumatic (for me).  I started thinking about past lives, wondering if maybe I had known him in a past life and he had killed me. Maybe I killed him in a past life and that is why I'm going through this torment now.... it my bad karma.  But I don't think I believe in past lives, not sure what I believe any more, nothing much makes sense these days.

 

Don't think I will try sleeping during the day again any time soon.  My mum came over later, then my daughter came home, so that took my mind off the bad dream.  Feeling ok now.  I rarely have bad dreams at night any more, but for about a year, I was having nightmares almost every night.

[bubble]

Dear Petu,

 

I sometimes have periods with intense and frequent bad dreams. Nightmares involving violence usually serve as an introduction into destabilisation.

 

Since I had ages of psychoanalitically oriented therapy and then 5 years of gestalt therapy I just learnt to interpret my dreams in a different way, away from their literal meaning.

 

I think my subconscious mind wants to express a prevailing and strong feeling which it is dealing with and for that expression, often at random, uses some people and images to act as carriers for those feelings. Subconsciousness acts as a director of a movie who primarily wants to express an emotion urgently and is impatient with finding a producers so it chooses characters which are either close at hand (something that happened yesterday) or that it associates with particular feelings. 

 

The way I see it, the meaning of the dream are its underlying feelings: I realized that he wanted to push me over the edge and was trying to do just that.  In the dream, I was fighting for my life, but I was getting weaker and weaker and I knew that I wasn't going to be able to save myself. I'm a very amateur dream interpreter but this could be the way your subconscious mind feels about your whole situation, also some kind of neuro emotion at a subconscious level. The presence of your daughter indicates you might be worried about the effect of witnessing your suffering has on her...

 

The reason the subconscioisness cast your ex for the role of a harmful agent might be re-acting of the hurt and harm he caused you.

 

I apologise for this clumsy attempt but was just tempted to offer a different explanation to that of karma I wonder if we have a discussion on dreams on the forum. I still don't understand them and their significance but they play a significant role in our journeys...

 

bubble

 

 

[alex]

Dear Petu, bad dreams are part of this terrible condition.

With time, they start to fade away;I can tell you this because it has been like this for me.

I dream a lot now, and wake up, but fortunately, no anxiety or panic anymore...

I t gets SLOWLY better.

 

Hang in there.

 

Hugs, A.

[Nikki]

Petu I was always a vivid dreamer.  And I would remember them too.  With drugs like Alex said, it's all part of the package.

Unfortunately, the dreams with meds are far more severe, rooted alot of the time in fears or situations that happened in the past.

 

For myself I believe my dreams are based in reality.  Something good, sometimes not such good things.  With drugs in the mix, mostly unpleasant.

 

If you comb thru the dreams you cam put together the pieces and uncover it.  IT doesn't mean it won't happen again, however there may be less intensity.

 

WD from drugs leaves us in a very vulnerable and fragile state and it can surface in our dreams.

[Rhiannon]

Hello Petu--nothing special to say, just that I appreciate you and I'm glad you're here.

 

:-)

[Petunia]

The way I see it, the meaning of the dream are its underlying feelings: I realized that he wanted to push me over the edge and was trying to do just that.  In the dream, I was fighting for my life, but I was getting weaker and weaker and I knew that I wasn't going to be able to save myself. I'm a very amateur dream interpreter but this could be the way your subconscious mind feels about your whole situation, also some kind of neuro emotion at a subconscious level. The presence of your daughter indicates you might be worried about the effect of witnessing your suffering has on her...

 

.................................................................

 

I apologise for this clumsy attempt but was just tempted to offer a different explanation to that of karma I wonder if we have a discussion on dreams on the forum. I still don't understand them and their significance but they play a significant role in our journeys...

 

bubble

 

 

 

No need to apologize Bubble, I completely agree with your interpretation, in fact while I was writing out the dream here, it occurred to me that it was a good representation of my current situation.  I'm also usually fairly good at interpreting dreams, when I'm not in a state of panic that is.

 

You are also completely right about the role my daughter played in the dream, I do my best to minimize the effect this has on her, playing down how bad I'm actually feeling and keeping it to myself.

 

I think that another of the more upsetting things about this 'condition' is that when under its influence it sends us right back to earlier or less sophisticated ways of thinking about things, sort of like we regress.  Over the last couple of years I've found myself digging up old beliefs from 20 years ago as a way of trying to understand some of the things which are happening to me.

 

I became a vegetarian (years ago) based purely on my belief in karma.  I eat meat again now.

 

Going off on a bit of a tangent here, but there is a very interesting discussion, based on Integral Theory and Spiral Dynamics about the evolution of human understanding. (from the PsycheTruth youtube channel)

 

here

 

Learning about this has given me a better understanding of relationships and why some are more difficult than others.  I used to think that if I could just explain myself clearly enough, then anyone would understand what I was talking about and be able to see my point, even if they didn't agree.  But that's actually not true, it opened my eyes to why my relationship with my father has been so difficult.

 

....... I wasn't planning on writing anything in my thread today, not sure how this happened, I got a bit excited by Bubble's dream interpretation and inspired to comment........ excitement, inspiration??? This is something different for 8am

 

positive changes I think.

 

Thank you Alex, Nikki and Rhi, for your latest comments, I don't know how I would manage without the support and understanding I get here on this site.

[EternalOptimist]

Since I don't know if you see my reply to you on my thread, I'm posting it here too. Thanks

Bless you, Petu, for all you wrote to me today. I so appreciate your time and effort. I wish I could reciprocate in kind.

Been such a rough few days agan. I am sorry for your challenges too. I built a website last year, with templates, and now, well, I know

You know. Trying not to remember that which sets me off, which can be anything it seems. Wonder if there are those here who

Worked on retraining the brain by changing thoughts via the work thru neuroplasticity? Worked well for me last time. Hmmmmm

Best to you again.

[Petunia]

For the last 24-48 hours, something has been different and I'm getting confused and scared.  I don't like change and these continual waves, but when its all the usual symptoms cycling around, at least there is some familiarity.  But on Sunday morning something shifted and since then.... well, I don't know what's going on.

 

I was having a progressively better week, more energy in general and my mood seemed to be a little better each day.  I was starting to sleep better again, just general improvement all round.  I had more physical energy and wanted to get out and exercise, unfortunately I wasn't able to, because of the heat.  But on Saturday, the weather suddenly cooled down so I did some walking, no more than usual though.

 

Sunday morning, after replying to a few posts here on the site, I went into the kitchen to do something and was suddenly overcome with an intense emotion I'd never experienced before.  I'm calling it an emotion, because that's the closest word I know that describes it.  But it was something I'd never felt before and completely overwhelming.  I've cognitively understood the concept of people/humanity being one and how we are all connected, but suddenly, it was like I was actually feeling that direct connection with my whole body, not just my mind.  I started crying just from the intensity of it and I haven't been able to cry properly for a long time.  It was a relief and emotionally exhausting at the same time.

 

For the rest of the day I felt very different, euphoric almost, but in a calm way. Hope was back, part of me I thought was lost was back, I was sure it was going to be ok from now on.  On Saturday night I had spent some time shopping online and realized I had got back in touch with my self-nurturing drive, which has been missing. 

 

But at about 3pm, which is the time of day I often start feeling better and get relief from morning cortisol, I suddenly felt very fatigued, mostly physical, like my whole body had suddenly become full of lead.  It continued and prevented me from doing something I had planned.  Around 6pm I developed pain in my left knee and it got progressively worse, spreading down into my foot and up into my thigh and hip.  Massage and movement relieved it temporarily, but it kept coming back and getting worse.  I knew I wouldn't be able to sleep because it was the kind of pain that keeps you awake, so I took an aspirin and that relieved it enough so that I could sleep.  In the morning, the pain was completely gone, but I was still very exhausted, physically.  I couldn't do anything but lay in bed listening to audio books.  I had planned to go out and do several things yesterday, but the most I could do was get out of bed for a few minutes to get food and water.

 

I also kept falling asleep.  In a way that was nice to be able to sleep during the day again, without being jerked awake in a panic, because that's something I haven't been able to do.  I was thinking that maybe my elevated daytime cortisol is finally settling down, but it was like it had swung completely the other way.

 

Emotionally draining, vivid dreams last night and I'm still feeling very physically tired today, but I managed to get up and clean up the kitchen.  All last weeks progress seems to have gone.

 

Something I ordered on Saturday night just arrived, and I can't even remember why I ordered it.

 

I don't know if this intense fatigue and sudden knee inflammation is withdrawal related or something else.  My knee is fine now, pain was gone in the morning, but everything in me is tired.

 

I just realized something, I didn't have a cortisol morning yesterday, first time in maybe 3 years.  But it was back today, not so intense and ..... I'm not sure what's going on, there is nausea, dizzyness and some hot/cold flashes, but instead of feeling an excess of physical energy with it as I usually do, I'm feeling a complete lack of physical energy..... this is causing some mental anxiety because I need to get some things done today and I don't know if I'm going to manage.  This is so frustrating.

 

What's going on?

 

Best guess.... my nervous system is throwing wrenches around all over the place in its confusion as it tries to find its balance.  It overshot the mark a bit with turning down the cortisol levels, but they have risen again, hopefully not so high as before this little glitch...... I guess I will have to just wait and see.

 

We are having very strange weather,  As long as I've lived in this country, I've never known it to be this cold at the end of January.  We had one hot week of temperatures normal for this time of year, but now its like late winter/early spring again and this is what's predicted for all this week.

 

Have other parts of the world been experiencing unusual weather?

 

[alex]

WITHDRAWAL; my dear Petu, it is ALL D********N withdrawal.New, bizarre, unexpected symptoms?? DON'T pay attention.Keep on walking.

You are getting hints of recovery; crying is good.

Nine months? for me were the worst.

 

Hang in there my friend.

 

Hugs, A.

[bubble]

Another very valuable post, dear Petu!

 

A report from unchartered teritory that will help us once we get there. For all it's awfullness, I think it's definitely a sign that things are mending. I also experience such 'boom and bust' episodes frequently. I'm very reluctant to mention 'bipolar' since it's so closely associated with that psychiatric labelling but there must be some physiological rational for things which are occuring when our brains are attempting to strike a balance. It's like 3 steps forward and then 5 steps back. I read it somewhere like: after that 2 steps forward, 3 steps back, 1 to 2 and then hopefully 2 to 1, etc.

 

About the weather: OH YES! I've been complaining extensively on my post. In my part of the world it should've been winter but until a week ago we had a full spring. Instead of -10 degrees celsius, temperatures were + 10. Spring flowers came out: snowdrops, primroses, my daffodils were ready to bloom when the snow fell for the first time this year, almost 3 months later than usually.

 

It caused major disruption in the animal and plant world (bees woke up and started eating their reserves which means they will soon run out of food and die!

 

General population was crowding ER with all sorts of symptoms and I ascribed a lot of my symptoms to that horrible weather. Our ministry runs a project of adapting to climate change (have no idea how but it's clear it is here and is happening very fast).

 

When the weather bacame normal a week ago a lot of my symptoms abated..

[Petunia]

WITHDRAWAL; my dear Petu, it is ALL D********N withdrawal.New, bizarre, unexpected symptoms?? DON'T pay attention.

 

Thanks Alex, I calmed down a bit after I wrote that post, things seemed clearer and I pretty much came to that conclusion.  The sudden different symptoms shook me up though, made me scared to go out and do my chores from a fear of the unknown, rather than pure physical symptoms.

 

But I made myself go out and do what I had planned, still feeling physically tired and with a different kind of anxiety.  Can't really describe it, it was like I was wearing a coat of anxiety, it was covering me, effecting my thinking and perceptions in the usual way, but inside there was a new......thing, I have no idea what to call it.  It was like I was walking around with a new...... knowing, as bad as it was, and it was quite bad, there was a completely separate part of me, an awareness that none of it was real.  The DP/DR was there and I was still having a very difficult time making decisions, but today, it didn't matter..... something is definitely different.

 

Then I came home and did everything I wanted to do and more.  Once I got going, it was like I was floating through the day, in slow motion, .... if I didn't know about withdrawal I would be sure that someone had put some kind of drug in my food.

 

I'm hesitant to write what I'm about to write because I honestly don't think there's a connection, but I probably should document it.

 

This morning I took some new supplements.  I've been wanting to start taking a multi-vitamin again, but of course was scared of having a bad reaction, so I ordered some high quality pre-natal vitamins and only took 1/8 of the recommended dose.  I also took a very low dose of Folate (as metafolin), because I think I may be one of the 50% of the population who can't metabolize folic acid properly.  But I basically took a crumb of that.