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Again, chemical imbalance is a myth. Stop the lies, please.


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Drug History

1997–Present - fluoxetine 20mg capsules 

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@DontFeedTheMonkeys no one denies that antidepressants, which are psychotropics, have psychotropic effects. You got high from Prozac and interpreted this as beneficial. Others might have been alarmed by this effect. The "antidepressant" benefit is subjective.

 

"No better than placebo" means over large numbers of people, there is no greater benefit from antidepressants than from placebo. That does not mean antidepressants have no effect.

 

I invite you to wrap your mind around this difficult concept. In the meantime, we discourage discussion of antidepressants as miracle drugs correcting an imbalance here because 1) they don't; 2) the discussion is repetitive and tedious; 3) the rest of the Web is full of this nonsense and you can go there. 

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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3 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

1) they don't; 2) the discussion is repetitive and tedious; 3) the rest of the Web is full of this nonsense and you can go there. 

LOL

2004: (apr): Citalopram 20 mg, June 60 mg., dec 20 mg

2004 (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg.

2014 (Jun): Citalopram stop cold turkey. Began 10 mg Vortioxetine

2017: (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg ->30 mg (after three day stint on psych ward)

2020: (aug): Vortioxetine 10 mg stopped cold turkey. 

2020 (dec): Mirtazapine 30 mg -> 15 mg (GPs instructions)

2021 (feb): Mirtazapine reinstatement 26,25 mg

2022 (Jan): Mirtazapine (5% taper): 14. Jan 24,9 mg, 6. feb 23,7 mg, 1. marts 22,5 mg, 15. marts 21,3 mg, 2. april 20 mg, 26. april 19. mg, 25. may 18.1 mg, 26 jun 17 mg - HOLD UNTIL I AM IN PHYSICAL SHAPE.

 

Have always taken fish oil capsules. Do not drink alcohol when tapering. 1 multivitamin pill a day. Try to eat healthy, but impossible on mirtazapine.

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On 7/29/2022 at 8:13 AM, DontFeedTheMonkeys said:

I cannot speak to the medical literature which finds no real evidence of a chemical imbalance related to seratonin levels, but I can tell you that after a lifetime of suffering near weekly depression, at the age of 40 I was placed on Prozac after two years of weekly psychotherapy failed to cure my depression.

 

Within 6 weeks, my life went from despair and sadness to complete euphoria, [LSD-like symptoms that lasted several weeks] and after several weeks I balanced out to what became my new normal and could function properly for the first time in my life. I am certain this was not the Placebo Effect, the results were so profound and dramatic as to be stunning. It changed my life dramatically for the better. How else can this be explained other than a chemical imbalance, corrected by Fluexotine? 


 

Cocaine, MDMA etc would have given you a similar high, just sooner - you wouldn't have had to wait 6 weeks. No one can be certain that they are not experiencing a placebo effect - there is no way to measure it except in comparisons with people who are not taking the drug. The question now will remain whether you have bought yourself years long withdrawal or sexual side effects, weight gain or poopout and akathisia in a few years. Will the devil ask for his payment in a few weeks/months/years? The fact that the euphoric effect has subsided means that your brain is adapting to the new drug. You will find out the consequences of that soon enough. 

 

I have a friend who takes prozac for seasonal low mood and then quits it in the spring when the sun shines longer. She has done it for a while and raves about how amazing it is. This year a month and a half after she quit she had inexplicably high anxiety and insomnia. She won't listen to any criticisms of ADs so I hold my tongue. Hers subside after a while. But which year is the one when they won't subside and she will think she has to continue taking them yearlong because suddenly her low mood has become permanent? 

 

I was certain I had a chemical imbalance and would tell off anyone who said otherwise (a few relatives protested). Life is a good and patient teacher, with some severe methods, unfortunately! 

 

I hope you find fellow prozac enthusiasts in some other corner of the web, you won't find any here. When you are ready to come off of your drugs though you might find our hard won wisdom helpful. Please remember to look for help here. We are a supportive bunch. We won't say 'I told you so' 

 

Cheers, 
OMW


A scientific article that is not that hard to understand on  placebos - 57% of the AD trials that were submitted to the FDA for approved ADs were either negative or null, meaning in only 43% of these trials is the AD shown to be better than the placebo and even then by a tiny amount - 25% better than placebo (with the issues of breaking blind) and the significant side effects and physical dependence.

For comparison, the mRNA Covid vaccines are 96% better than placebo 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4172306/

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

If you would like to get a response from me directly please type @Onmyway some place in your message so I get notified of your post. I am not able to follow all of the threads all the time.

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, 

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

 

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I am not a 'Prozac enthusiast'. If I was I'd continue its use. My comments on here have been misinterpreted by more than one person, even the mods, and I've been given a warning for defending myself when accused of being a fake when my comments were misinterpreted rather rudely by another member. That's no way to make a newcomer feel welcome.

 

My 'high' effects lasted several weeks and then my mood evened out to a balanced state, so I was not giving accolades for the 'high effect' - in fact it terrified me at first until I chalked it up to some kind of brain or neurotransmitter adjustment. I'm not an advocate of the chemical imbalance theory, nor am I pro-Prozac, I was simply recounting my story to the forum in hopes of some guidance.

 

I posited a question asking about what might be a reasonable explanation for how the drug lessened my depression. It's a bit difficult not to tell my story without giving some perspective on my experience but somehow here it is taken as a discussion on the chemical imbalance theory and it never was intended to be.

 

I am appreciative of the good intentions and some of the very good articles and some of the very good advice here on tapering, which I know has been hard won by many of you. I am new here, and just starting on my journey to get free of Prozac.

 

Drug History

1997–Present - fluoxetine 20mg capsules 

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Posted (edited)

@DontFeedTheMonkeys

The fact that a drug has an effect on the brain does not mean that it corrects an imbalance. The fact that extra serotonin does things to the body doesn't mean that one lacked serotonin before the drug. The common example is alcohol - alcohol helps with social anxiety but we don't say we had an alcohol deficiency disorder.

 

I don't know why you felt better on Prozac. When I was put on citalopram the first four weeks were a nightmare similar to the worst of withdrawal - my anxiety became 10x worse, I had night terrors and lucid nightmares, night sweats and nausea. Once that passed anything would have felt good even the anxiety I had prior. In my case I also moved schools and found new friends etc so that changed things 

 

It could also be placebo. The most famous story of a placebo was when women with pregnancy morning sickness were given a drug that they were told would help then stop vomiting. The drug they were given, however, was ipecac which causes people to vomit. Guess what, though, a substantial portion of the women given ipecac were 'cured' of their morning sickness. The effect was very real. Placebos even cause cancer remissions.

 

We do get a substantial number of AD enthusiasts here to convince us of our lost way and if you go to Twitter a similarly substantial number of people deny this hellish experience. Especially MDs or medical students seem to be very enthusiastic about how SSRIs saved their lives (instead of asking why medical training is so awful that they needed ADs to begin with). As a result, we are cautious. This is our 'safe space', so to say, - we don't want to engage in discussions and arguments and debates that end up being triggering. 

 

I'm happy to answer questions and educate on what is what. I learned all of this too late myself, after withdrawal started and happily share sources. I deal in scientific articles but will also find you books and YouTube videos if that's more your speed. But there was a lot of material out there for years that I hadn't seen in time. I wish I had. I share it widely now.

 

Welcome to the other (unfortunately dark) side!

OMW

Edited by Onmyway

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

If you would like to get a response from me directly please type @Onmyway some place in your message so I get notified of your post. I am not able to follow all of the threads all the time.

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, 

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

 

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Much appreciated, OnMyWay! My takeaway from this is that the forums are to be focused specifically for getting off these drugs safely, and not debate  the subjective effects of the drugs and why they have the effect they do. I shared my experience and my own view of that experience to give some context and background to how I got started on them and the effect they had on me, and I think that was probably what created the blowback. The main thing is to get off of them safely.     

Drug History

1997–Present - fluoxetine 20mg capsules 

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