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Again, chemical imbalance is a myth. Stop the lies, please.


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Drug History

1997–Present - fluoxetine 20mg capsules 

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3 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

1) they don't; 2) the discussion is repetitive and tedious; 3) the rest of the Web is full of this nonsense and you can go there. 

LOL

2004: (apr): Citalopram 20 mg, June 60 mg., dec 20 mg

2004 (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg.

2014 (Jun): Citalopram stop cold turkey. Began 10 mg Vortioxetine

2017: (dec): Mirtazapine 15 mg ->30 mg (after three day stint on psych ward)

2020: (aug): Vortioxetine 10 mg stopped cold turkey. 

2020 (dec): Mirtazapine 30 mg -> 15 mg (GPs instructions)

2021 (feb): Mirtazapine reinstatement 26,25 mg

2022 (Jan): Mirtazapine (5% taper): 14. Jan 24,9 mg, 6. feb 23,7 mg, 1. marts 22,5 mg, 15. marts 21,3 mg, 2. april 20 mg, 26. april 19. mg, 25. may 18.1 mg, 26 jun 17 mg.

 

Have always taken fish oil capsules. Do not drink alcohol when tapering. 1 multivitamin pill a day. Try to eat healthy, but impossible on mirtazapine.

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On 7/29/2022 at 8:13 AM, DontFeedTheMonkeys said:

I cannot speak to the medical literature which finds no real evidence of a chemical imbalance related to seratonin levels, but I can tell you that after a lifetime of suffering near weekly depression, at the age of 40 I was placed on Prozac after two years of weekly psychotherapy failed to cure my depression.

 

Within 6 weeks, my life went from despair and sadness to complete euphoria, [LSD-like symptoms that lasted several weeks] and after several weeks I balanced out to what became my new normal and could function properly for the first time in my life. I am certain this was not the Placebo Effect, the results were so profound and dramatic as to be stunning. It changed my life dramatically for the better. How else can this be explained other than a chemical imbalance, corrected by Fluexotine? 


 

Cocaine, MDMA etc would have given you a similar high, just sooner - you wouldn't have had to wait 6 weeks. No one can be certain that they are not experiencing a placebo effect - there is no way to measure it except in comparisons with people who are not taking the drug. The question now will remain whether you have bought yourself years long withdrawal or sexual side effects, weight gain or poopout and akathisia in a few years. Will the devil ask for his payment in a few weeks/months/years? The fact that the euphoric effect has subsided means that your brain is adapting to the new drug. You will find out the consequences of that soon enough. 

 

I have a friend who takes prozac for seasonal low mood and then quits it in the spring when the sun shines longer. She has done it for a while and raves about how amazing it is. This year a month and a half after she quit she had inexplicably high anxiety and insomnia. She won't listen to any criticisms of ADs so I hold my tongue. Hers subside after a while. But which year is the one when they won't subside and she will think she has to continue taking them yearlong because suddenly her low mood has become permanent? 

 

I was certain I had a chemical imbalance and would tell off anyone who said otherwise (a few relatives protested). Life is a good and patient teacher, with some severe methods, unfortunately! 

 

I hope you find fellow prozac enthusiasts in some other corner of the web, you won't find any here. When you are ready to come off of your drugs though you might find our hard won wisdom helpful. Please remember to look for help here. We are a supportive bunch. We won't say 'I told you so' 

 

Cheers, 
OMW


A scientific article that is not that hard to understand on  placebos - 57% of the AD trials that were submitted to the FDA for approved ADs were either negative or null, meaning in only 43% of these trials is the AD shown to be better than the placebo and even then by a tiny amount - 25% better than placebo (with the issues of breaking blind) and the significant side effects and physical dependence.

For comparison, the mRNA Covid vaccines are 96% better than placebo 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4172306/

"Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig 

 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. 

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering)

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

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I am not a 'Prozac enthusiast'. If I was I'd continue its use. My comments on here have been misinterpreted by more than one person, even the mods, and I've been given a warning for defending myself when accused of being a fake when my comments were misinterpreted rather rudely by another member. That's no way to make a newcomer feel welcome.

 

My 'high' effects lasted several weeks and then my mood evened out to a balanced state, so I was not giving accolades for the 'high effect' - in fact it terrified me at first until I chalked it up to some kind of brain or neurotransmitter adjustment. I'm not an advocate of the chemical imbalance theory, nor am I pro-Prozac, I was simply recounting my story to the forum in hopes of some guidance.

 

I posited a question asking about what might be a reasonable explanation for how the drug lessened my depression. It's a bit difficult not to tell my story without giving some perspective on my experience but somehow here it is taken as a discussion on the chemical imbalance theory and it never was intended to be.

 

I am appreciative of the good intentions and some of the very good articles and some of the very good advice here on tapering, which I know has been hard won by many of you. I am new here, and just starting on my journey to get free of Prozac.

 

Drug History

1997–Present - fluoxetine 20mg capsules 

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@DontFeedTheMonkeys

The fact that a drug has an effect on the brain does not mean that it corrects an imbalance. The fact that extra serotonin does things to the body doesn't mean that one lacked serotonin before the drug. The common example is alcohol - alcohol helps with social anxiety but we don't say we had an alcohol deficiency disorder.

 

I don't know why you felt better on Prozac. When I was put on citalopram the first four weeks were a nightmare similar to the worst of withdrawal - my anxiety became 10x worse, I had night terrors and lucid nightmares, night sweats and nausea. Once that passed anything would have felt good even the anxiety I had prior. In my case I also moved schools and found new friends etc so that changed things 

 

It could also be placebo. The most famous story of a placebo was when women with pregnancy morning sickness were given a drug that they were told would help then stop vomiting. The drug they were given, however, was ipecac which causes people to vomit. Guess what, though, a substantial portion of the women given ipecac were 'cured' of their morning sickness. The effect was very real. Placebos even cause cancer remissions.

 

We do get a substantial number of AD enthusiasts here to convince us of our lost way and if you go to Twitter a similarly substantial number of people deny this hellish experience. Especially MDs or medical students seem to be very enthusiastic about how SSRIs saved their lives (instead of asking why medical training is so awful that they needed ADs to begin with). As a result, we are cautious. This is our 'safe space', so to say, - we don't want to engage in discussions and arguments and debates that end up being triggering. 

 

I'm happy to answer questions and educate on what is what. I learned all of this too late myself, after withdrawal started and happily share sources. I deal in scientific articles but will also find you books and YouTube videos if that's more your speed. But there was a lot of material out there for years that I hadn't seen in time. I wish I had. I share it widely now.

 

Welcome to the other (unfortunately dark) side!

OMW

Edited by Onmyway

"Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig 

 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. 

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering)

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

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Much appreciated, OnMyWay! My takeaway from this is that the forums are to be focused specifically for getting off these drugs safely, and not debate  the subjective effects of the drugs and why they have the effect they do. I shared my experience and my own view of that experience to give some context and background to how I got started on them and the effect they had on me, and I think that was probably what created the blowback. The main thing is to get off of them safely.     

Drug History

1997–Present - fluoxetine 20mg capsules 

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WOW what a powerful article. I hope Whittaker gets onto a class action regarding the dependency they create and the WD effects people have to endure / years they have to spend tapering off them. Lives, careers and families destroyed. It’s so heartbreaking 💔 

am not a medical professional. I provide information and make suggestions based on my own experience and SA guidelines. I am unable to respond to private messages. 

Mirtazepine 15mg Nov 2018 -April 2019  April - Sept 2019 Mirtazepine down to around 6mg - skipping days to taper

October 2019 - Dec 2019 unwell from failed taper including jumping about in doses 

15 December 2019 to 13 June 2021 15mg Mirtazepine 

14 June 2021 started brass monkey Slide.  
2021: 23 August 12.3mg, 28 October 11.1mg, 6 Dec 10mg

2022: 12 Feb 8.5, 25 Oct 4.5mg

2023: 16 Jan 3.6mg, 28 Sept 1.8mg

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Great article! I saw the study when it first came out and had lots of emotions swirling around about it.

 

Wish I could get an apology and some financial remuneration after my doctor seriously mismanaged my medications which caused me to be hospitalized. Then, while in the hospital I was prescribed EIGHT different meds, which they kept switching around frequently because nothing was working. Duh.

 

Then I received ECT which left me with very serious long term memory problems. I have a host of other medical issues due to the meds and ECT. 

 

The misery a class action lawsuit would cause them wouldn't be enough for all the lives they've ruined. 

2015 Lexapro 10 mg

2020 Lexapro 20 mg, Wellbutrin 400 mg, Abilify 2 mg, Modafinil 200 mg ☹️

3/10/22 - begin 10% taper off Abilify 2 mg.

June 2022 - off Abilify

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image.png.27519132b6f1d6053584b6dcd612acd8.png

2003/7 (at age 52)        Prozac 20mg. For chronic fatigue syndrome.    2007/10    20mg citalopram, 2010/11 Cold Turkey citalopram Severe withdrawal,  2011  back on citalopram 10mg, 2014  Discontinued Citalopram over a month period

2014/15                       Suffered severe withdrawal and was prescribed Prozac 20mg, 2017/18 After research I decided that I have never had such severe mental illness, only withdrawal

2017/20                       Various failed attempts to ‘taper’ (missing doses), 2020 Sept 16th started a 5% taper using mini scales, 2020 Nov Ended taper Back on 20mg Prozac

2021 Nov 24               Reduced to 19mg Prozac  from starting dose of 20mg (5% reduction) 2022 Jan 3rd              Reduced to 18mg Prozac (5.26% reduction)

2022 Feb 27th            Reduced to 17.2mg Prozac (4.44% reduction)

2022 Mar 12th            Reduced to 16.8mg Easier to read on Syringe 

2022 Jun 15               16mg  4.76% reduction

2023 Mar 29th          Reduced to 15.5mg

 

 

Hand on heart, "Personally I have never heard of anyone suffering withdrawal from Prozac" Dr P

 

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5 hours ago, LeoTheLion said:

Great article! I saw the study when it first came out and had lots of emotions swirling around about it.

 

Wish I could get an apology and some financial remuneration after my doctor seriously mismanaged my medications which caused me to be hospitalized. Then, while in the hospital I was prescribed EIGHT different meds, which they kept switching around frequently because nothing was working. Duh.

 

Then I received ECT which left me with very serious long term memory problems. I have a host of other medical issues due to the meds and ECT. 

 

The misery a class action lawsuit would cause them wouldn't be enough for all the lives they've ruined. 

@LeoTheLion

I believe there is a lawsuit being prepared against ECT in the UK. Lucy Johnstone has been active with it. Check her on Twitter. 

"Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig 

 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. 

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering)

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

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Here is my understanding of why the chemical imbalance theory doesn't work and could never have worked. Please correct me if I am incorrect.

 

My understanding is that in order for the theory and its 'treatments' to work several overly simplistic and  incorrect assumptions were made. These are.

 

1.     Neurotransmitters work independantly

2.    Neurotransmitter levels are constant

3.    The body does not react to changes in neurotransmitter levels

4.    The drugs only affect receptors in the brain

5.     If you take the drug away your symptoms will simply return.

 

Once you understand a bit of how the nervous system works it is easy to see why these assumptions are fatally flawed.

 

Flawed Assumption 1 - Neurotransmitters do not work independently they work in concert together. To affect one is to affect them all.

 

Flawed Assumption 2 - Neurotransmitter levels throughout the brain and body are constantly being adjusted due to changing conditions and environment. So, there is no 'balance' to restore. The body and brain are constantly adjusting the levels based on current conditions and needs. The body can also convert neurotransmitters from one form to another by breaking them down and rebuilding them into whatever is needed at the moment. So if you create an excess of one chemical the body can break it down and convert it to what is needed or it can choose to simply metabolize and get rid of what is not needed.

 

Flawed Assumption 3 - The body reacts to changes in internal and external environment. Our DNA is encoded with the instructions for maintaining the preset homeostatic set points you were born with. It will always try to get back to that. This is done through various process including up-regulation and down-regulation of neurotransmitter receptor sites. So, if you start blocking serotonin receptor sites the nerve signaling changes and the body starts building more receptor sites to boost the signal back up which negates the original intent of the drug. It also leads to dysfunction in the body and nervous system over time.

 

Flawed Assumption 4 - The drugs are not targeted to receptors that only affect mood. They will bind with any receptor site that they come into contact with. Since neurotransmitters and their receptor sites are used and located throughout the body not just in the brain the drugs will disrupt any body system they happen to bind with. This is the unpredictable part of the equation. This is part of why these drugs affect every body system not just the brain and mood.

 

Flawed Assumption 5 - Since after only a few weeks on the drug you have altered functioning wherever the drug has bound with its associated receptor sites and a chain reaction of compensatory reactions has begun. As the body tries to compensate for the altered nerve signaling from the affected receptor sites you then alter other signals, feedback loops, cell functions, and enzyme functions, etc. Once you take the drug away you are left with dysfunction and the longer you took it the worse the dysfunction will be because more changes have been made to compensate for the drug and the longer it will take for the brain and body to go back to where it originally was and needs to be.

 

The good news in all of this is that nothing I have read says that these medications alter the DNA in any way which means the original blueprints and instructions are still there and once the drug is gone your body will go about the process of making the adjustments to go back to factory settings. It's like the backup partition on your computers hard drive. As long as that partition is not damaged in any way you can always go back to factory settings. This is what recovery is all about.

 

Please make any additions or corrections to whatever I have wrong here.

Current Psychiatric Medications

  1. Paxil 10mg daily (a.m.) 2017 - Present
  2. Carbamazepine IR  190 mg twice daily (380mg Daily) 2011 - Present (Currently Tapering)

Past Psychiatric Medications From 1994 to August 2021   Seroquel (in Recovery since August 2021 final dose 6.25mg), Depakote, Lithium, Risperidone, Xanax, Lamotrigene, Olanzapine, Lorazepam, Welbutrin, Trazodone, Oxazepam, Gabapentin, Abilify, Topiramate, Prazosin, Ambien (See Attached Spreadsheet And Seroquel Tapering And WIthdrawal Summary)

Current Non Psychiatric Medications Levothyroxine 88mcg (a.m.)-Vitamin D3 1000 IU (p.m.)-Fexofenadine 180 mg twice daily -Clonidine 0.1 mg (p.m.)-Azelastine Nasal Spray

Other - Fish Oil Twice Daily-Multi-Vitamin (a.m.)-Vitamin C 1000mg Daily (a.m.)-Saline Nasal Spray-Salsalate 750mg twice daily PRN, Diclofenac Gel on affected joint PRN-Magnesium Citrate 250mg twice daily, Betaine HCL & Digestine Enzymes With Meals

Quitting Seroquel_A Vacation In Hell_Redacted.pdf

Other Documents https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/26099-feralcatman-recovering-from-seroquel/?do=findComment&comment=633907

 

 

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  • 5 months later...
  • Administrator

The examination of "chemical imbalance" as the cause of mood disorders is fundamentally misdirected, as life experiences have long been known have a huge effect on emotional patterns.

 

Looking in the wrong place for the answer is called a "category error".

 

"Chemical imbalance" could never be the determining factor for mood disorders because it arises from a category error.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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10 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

The examination of "chemical imbalance" as the cause of mood disorders is fundamentally misdirected, as life experiences have long been known have a huge effect on emotional patterns.

 

Looking in the wrong place for the answer is called a "category error".

 

"Chemical imbalance" could never be the determining factor for mood disorders because it arises from a category error.

 

Wish I'd encountered this sooner. I'd been told "chemical imbalance" runs in families like mine and I was doomed to be miserably drugged till I died.

 

Really, generational trauma runs in families. Hoping we can all start looking at life experiences instead of assuming some/many brains are born broken!

 

It just doesn't make evolutionary sense that so many humans need pills to survive. If that's true, we need to change a lot about society so that folks don't need to numb themselves to live, not just keep inventing new pills to make us stop having feelings about the very real problems we face.

 

Thanks for doing this work!

Pronouns: they/them/theirs 

Started on Prozac in early 2000s to treat cPTSD, been on various cocktails ever since.

2002-2004, 2017-2022: Buspar, tapered down to 0

2016-present: 100mg Seroquel for sleep -> May 2023: 90mg -> June 2023: 81mg -> September 2023: 72mg -> switched to brand name, much too strong, down to 60mg -> October 2023: 54mg -> November 2023: 50mg -> January 2024: 45mg

2016-Present: 100mg Wellbutrin SR -> January 2023: 75mg IR (37.5mg 2x a day) -> February 2023 (33.75mg 2x a day) -> July 2023 (30.37mg 2x a day) -> August 2023: 27.33mg 2x a day 

2018-present: 25mg Pristiq

2015-present: 600mg Gabapentin (200mg 3x a day) -> December 2022: 300mg Gabapentin (100mg 3x a day) per GP's recommendation after side effects -> March 2023: 90mg 3x a day (switched to liquid suspension) -> April 2023: 81mg 3x a day -> September 2023: bad generic, switched back to homemade liquid; too strong after bad generic, down to 70mg 3x a day, still bad. Adjusted slowly till at 60mg 3x a day, much better. Long hold till -> December 2023: 54mg, still feels too high after November Seroquel switch from brand name to generic, doc recommended 50mg which feels better -> January 2024: When Wellbutrin went down, Gabapentin started putting me to sleep, went down to 45mg, then 41mg to stay awake, so far so good -> February 2024: 36mg

Supplements: Multivitamin w/magnesium, probiotics, digestive enzymes, anti-viral nitric oxide nose spray as needed

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  • 4 weeks later...

 

1999-2002 Seropram 20mg, 2002-2004 Paxil 10mg; 2004-2012 Paxil 20mg, 2012-2013 Effexor 75mg, 2013-2018 Paxil 20mg, 2018-2019 Effexor 75mg, 2019-2021 Paxil 20mg, 2021-present Lexapro 5mg

10-2022 Lexapro 4,5mg + Fish oil + Magnesium, 06-25-2022 Lexapro 4mg + fish oil + Magnesium, 07-23-2022 Lexapro 3.5mg + fish oil + magnesium 

08-23-2022 Lexapro 3.2mg + fish oil + magnesium 

10-13-2022 Lexapro 3mg + fish oil + magnesium

01-01-2023 Lexapro 2,9mg + fish oil + magnesium (insomnia + night anxiety + anxiety) 

01-20-2023 Lexapro 3mg + fish oil + magnesium 

02-11-2023 Lexapro 5mg (no fish oil - no magnesium)

 

Had to take one prazepam (10mg) in night January22nd 2023 

Had to take one prarepam (10mg) in night February 10th 2023

Prazepam if needed in case of panic attack

     
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  • Altostrata changed the title to YouTube: Dr. Mark Horowitz and The Myth of Low Serotonin & Antidepressants

Serotonin is mostly in the gut, where it belongs. Why somebody decided there should be more of it in the brain too is beyond my comprehension.

Since early March 2022: escitalopram 10 mg + trazodone 75 mg, after a month or so switched to sertraline 50 mg + mianserin 10 mg;

Later augmented with quetiapine 75 mg for insomnia;

Cold turkeyed all antidepressants in November 2022;

Currently on:

Quetiapine: 275 mg (21/02/2023; down from 300 mg) -> 250 mg (18/03/2023) -> 225 mg (26/04/2023) -> 200 mg (19/05/2023) -> 187.5 mg (12/06/2023) -> 175 mg  (27/06/2023) -> 162.5 mg (16/07/2023) -> 150 mg (31/07/2023) -> 137.5 mg (15/08/2023) -> 125 mg (17/09/2023) -> 112.5 mg (02/10/2023) -> 100 mg (17/10/2023) -> 87.5 mg (05/11/2023) -> 81.25 mg (01/12/2023) -> 75 mg (14/12/2023) -> 68.75 mg (22/12/2023) -> 62.5 mg (28/12/2023) -> 50 mg (11/01/2024) -> 43,75 mg (06/02/2024) -> 37,5 mg (20/02/2024)

Diazepam once every week/two weeks, or less frequently

Supplements: magnesium, vit. D3

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  • 6 months later...
  • Mentor

it's sad that this theory has become so well entrenched that it's about as hard to get rid of as a fungus and just as annoying

 

 

I signed up for telehealth "therapy" to help me negotiate some surgery I really really do not want but may have to have


This place called Confidant Health, is all over the US and seem primarily geared towards addiction but also seems to heavily promote drugs for anxiety and depression

 

https://www.confidanthealth.com/anxiety-and-depression/what-medications-are-prescribed-for-anxiety

 

https://www.confidanthealth.com/about-us

 

they have a "learning library"  with this little gem in it

Not sure If I'll quit now after the annoying intake, or see if I might be able to educate these folks a little bit before I go

Imbalanced Brain Chemistry

Depression can not only result from an imbalance of chemicals in the brain, but it can also lead to this imbalance after being triggered by another factor, like a traumatic event. The main chemicals -- or neurotransmitters -- responsible for mood regulation are dopamine, serotonin, and norepinephrine. Sometimes the brain doesn't produce these chemicals in sufficient quantities. Other times, there's an adequate supply of these neurotransmitters, but the brain's neurons simply aren't reacting to them appropriately.

Each neurotransmitter also plays a role in other bodily functions, like sleep or digestion. Your specific depression symptoms can help a behavioral health professional pinpoint the chemical that's causing your depression. 

Edited by Happy2Heal

 

  • pysch med history: 1974 @ age 18 to Oct 2017 (approx 43 yrs total) 
  •  Drug list: stelazine, haldol, elavil, lithium, zoloft, celexa, lexapro(doses as high as 40mgs), klonopin, ambien, seroquel(high doses), depakote, zyprexa, lamictal- plus brief trials of dozens of other psych meds over the years
  • started lexapro 2002, dose varied from 20mgs to 40mgs. First attempt to get off it was 2007- WD symptoms were mistaken for "relapse". 
  •  2013 too fast taper down to 5mg but WD forced me back to 20mgs
  •  June of 2105, tapered again too rapidly to 2.5mgs by Dec 2015. Found SA, held at 2.5 mgs til May 2016 when I foolishly "jumped off". felt ok until  Sept, then acute WD hit!!  reinstated at 0.3mgs in Oct. 2106
  • Tapered off to zero by  Oct. 2017 Doing very well. 
  • Nov. 2018 feel 95% healed, age 63 
  • Jan. 2020 feel 100% healed, peaceful and content
  • Dec 2023 Loving life! ❤️ with all it's ups and downs ;) 
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2 hours ago, Happy2Heal said:

it's sad that this theory has become so well entrenched that it's about as hard to get rid of as a fungus and just as annoying

 

Funnily enough, I happen to be watching this video at the moment.  Dr Mark Horowitz does some good myth busting here

 

 

I am not a health professional - your actions are your own.  

Please do not seek tapering support via private message - "Any reason to hold is a good one"

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

Backdrop:  2003 10mg olanzapine | 2004 2-3mg risperidone | end 2014 3wks aripiprazole

2015: olanzapine  10 -> 7½ -> 6⅔ -> 5mg  by crude pill cutter

2018:  Mar 5.00mg -> water titrated taper -> Aug2.5mg tablet and hold

Jan 2019 2.50mg water titration -> Jan 2020 1.214  -> Jan 2021 0.44 -> 2 Oct 0.205 ->3 Oct ZERO🥂

Jun 2023 💉150mg paliperidone "loading" depot shot, 100mg 1wk after Jul 100mg Aug-Dec 75mg/4wks

Jul 2023 2.50mg aripiprazole/day attempt to lower prolactin^

Jan-Feb 2024 cross taper off shots to 1mg risperidone

 

Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country did to you"  -- KMFDM

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  • Moderator

Also relevant from Dr Joanna Moncrieff

 

 

I am not a health professional - your actions are your own.  

Please do not seek tapering support via private message - "Any reason to hold is a good one"

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

Backdrop:  2003 10mg olanzapine | 2004 2-3mg risperidone | end 2014 3wks aripiprazole

2015: olanzapine  10 -> 7½ -> 6⅔ -> 5mg  by crude pill cutter

2018:  Mar 5.00mg -> water titrated taper -> Aug2.5mg tablet and hold

Jan 2019 2.50mg water titration -> Jan 2020 1.214  -> Jan 2021 0.44 -> 2 Oct 0.205 ->3 Oct ZERO🥂

Jun 2023 💉150mg paliperidone "loading" depot shot, 100mg 1wk after Jul 100mg Aug-Dec 75mg/4wks

Jul 2023 2.50mg aripiprazole/day attempt to lower prolactin^

Jan-Feb 2024 cross taper off shots to 1mg risperidone

 

Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country did to you"  -- KMFDM

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 11/10/2023 at 6:12 PM, hayduke said:

Also relevant from Dr Joanna Moncrieff

 

 


 

 

Wow I love Joanna Moncrieff! I just started reading a sample of her book A straight talking introduction to psychiatric drugs: 

 

introduction from sample: 

 

"What are mental health problems? 

 

Much of what is written and spoken about emotional distress or mental health problems implies that they are illnesses. This can lead us all too easily to believe that we no longer have to think about mental health problems, because illness is best left to doctors. They are the illness experts, and psychiatrists are the doctors who specialize in mental illness. This series of books is different because we don't think that all mental health problems should be automatically regarded as illnesses. 

If mental health problems aren't necessarily illnesses, it means that the burden of responsibility for distress in our lives should not be entirely shouldered by doctors and psychiatrists. All citizens have a responsibility, however small, in creating a world where everyone has a decent opportunity to live a fulfilling life... Rather than accept that the ways of understanding the solutions to mental health problems are 'owned' by the medical profession, we will takea  good look at alternatives that involve the users of psychiatric services, their careers, families, friends and other 'ordinary people' taking control of their own lives, and that means all of us. One of the tools required in order to become active in mental health issues, is knowledge." 

 

- Amazing! 

 

And this falls into the category of what I described in the post above. Starting points in mental health are often oil changes and not sugar in the gas tank that can be managed and fixed to a high degree by fixing the conditions that are causing it whether that be bad diet, unhealthy abusive boundaries in relationships, chemicals that society thinks is ok to put inside food alongside not being happy at your school or work because it's not the right fit for you individually, spiritual problems. These are all examples of things that can be fixed without resorting to sugar in your gas tank aka the psych drugs that destroy your body's chemical makeup from a biological perspective. 

https://friendsforpeers.angelfire.com/Index.html - my website and discord server

Zyprexa (not sure what mg) But got off after a month of being put on in hospital. early 2007 Respirodol (experienced ackathesia so got off in 4 - 6 months from a 6mg dose) Later 2007 tried Seroquel but got offbecause didn't like it.  Later 2007 tried Abilify but had ackathesia, got off2008 - 2015 Unmedicated but on Serequel 800mg when hospitalized   Later 2015 - Unmedicated but put on Prolixyn when hospitalized (Had very uncomfortable stiffness so got off immediately when out of hospital)2016 Unmedicated but put on Haldol when hospitalized (caused Seizures and stiffness couldn't lay down for 3 days until taken off) Later 2016Tried Zyprexa irregular dosesEarly 2017 Put on Zyprexa 15mg stayed on 15 mg until 2020 January 2020 Zyprexa 15mg didn't seem to be working so increased to Zyprexa 20mgOctober - December 2020 Reduced Zyprexa from 20 mg to 15mg to 10mg to 7.5mg to 5mg to 2.5mg. Hospitalized January 1st 2021March 2021 15mg Zyprexa April 12.5mg Zyprexa  May, June and July 10mg Zyprexa, August 7.5mg Zyprexa, September 1st toOctober 23th 2021 5mg Zyprexa.  October 23rd - December 13th 3.75mg Zyprexa December 13th - January 12th 3.1mg Zyprexa HOSPITALIZED FOR 4.5 MONTHS put on 10mg then 15mg then 20mg of Zyprexa (Givenlong acting injection of Thorazine as well).  May 23rd 2022 Reduced from 20mg to 17.5mg Zyprexa, June 9th 15mg started nighttime. April 2023 taken off Zyprexa cold turkey and put on two monthly injections of Invega Sustena.

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