LisasLove The Most Horrible Time Of My Life

[LisasLove]

Kudos for educating your doctors about withdrawal syndrome!  

 

Good luck with the diet and the exercise, remember to pay careful attention to how your body responds to everything.  Let us know how you do!

When I went back to the Doctor my original MD wouldn't even look at me. The Doctor must have spoken to him. I don't know how these MD's can prescribe these drugs when they have really little training to do so. 

[Meimeiquest]

Very glad to hear all the positive things!

[LisasLove]

I still have what I call "electrical headaches" though they seem to be getting slightly better. However, I felt like I had stepped backwards for a couple days with several days of extreme headaches. My tinnitus is still very bad and is a very high pitched noise. I don't know if I ever mentioned this before but I see what I call floaters with my right eye. The floaters are more transparent now but they are still visible. My sleep seems to be getting better but It is still far from normal.

 

On a more positive note three of my friends are now on CPAP machines. I have been pushing them for about a year to get checked out. They all had some sort of Psychiatric diagnosis some time in their life. One was diagnosed with PTS, the other with Depression and another with Bipolar disorder. Two of them have been on the CPAP long enough to see some improvement in their anxiety. While the last one has just started with CPAP therapy.

[LisasLove]

I have a rather interesting story to tell. I don't know if this is the best place for it but oh well here it goes. As I was going through Psychosis from SSRI Discontinuation Syndrome, I thought about a very good friend of mine. This is someone that I have known since elementary school and is more of a brother than a friend. I kept thinking to myself during my Psychosis, “this is what it must feel like when my friend is going through episodes” since he has been diagnosed with Schizophrenia for over 20 years. I had never seen him go through an episode of Psychosis but he and his family had told me about it. I also wondered about all the car accidents he had been in (5 total), how he was always tired or sleeping and his insomnia complaints over the years (all symptoms of sleep apnea).
 
As I my health increased and I understood SSRI DS better, I wondered had this been happening to my friend all these years. I went from Sleep Apnea caused anxiety to extreme anxiety driven by Xanax withdrawal to Psychosis from SSRI DS. At the beginning of the year, I visited with my friend and I told him my story and explained to him some of the things that I was going through. He said that some of it was very familiar to him. In the past, he was non-compliant with his medication. Sometimes he would stop his medication “cold turkey” and he would experience similarities to what I experienced. I told him to never cold turkey his medication again and if he ever felt good enough to get off of his medication to taper it very slowly under the watch of Psychiatrist that specializes in getting people off of these drugs. At the time he was on an antidepressant (Wellbutrin) and an antipsychotic (Seroquel).
 
Still worried about my friend, I called his older sister who watches over him. I then sent her a very long follow up e-mail (I won’t go into all of the details of the e-mail) of my experiences with misdiagnoses, failed treatments and udder lack of care from several of my Doctors. If this could have happen to me having access to the best medical professionals (due to my exceptional work benefits), could it have happened to my friend that was on Medi-Cal. Could he have been experiencing symptoms of Obstructive Sleep Apnea (Insomnia, Depression and Anxiety) while then self medicating himself with marijuana (in his early 20’s he had been smoking marijuana every day). Had this lead him to this medication version of catch 22? (Go on the medication start to believe he was feeling better then get off the medication, go through Psychosis and then get back on the medication. Then change his medication or add a medication and go through it all over again).
 
I ended the e-mail with the following:
Two things get ******* a Sleep Study and make sure that he doesn't stop his medication cold turkey (this needs to be preached to *******). If ******* were ever to get better enough to even think about getting off his medication he would have to taper very slowly for several years. He would also need to be under the watch of a Psychiatrist that specializes in this. Like I have said I have done a lot of research on these subjects and if something doesn't make sense to you just ask away. I have or can get research. I look at it this way, if ******* doesn't have Sleep Apnea what did it waste maybe a day of his time.
 
Well shortly after I sent her this e-mail my friend was experiencing a medication Poop-out. His Psychiatrist said his Wellbutrin wasn't working anymore so they switch his medication from Wellbutrin to Celexa. The Psychiatrist told him to taper the Wellbutrin for a week while he was increasing the Celexa. A week that’s it he had been on Wellbutrin for over 10 years. (Of course, I didn't know this was happening at the time) but when I went to visit my friend he was in complete Psychosis. After I knocked on his gate, he looked out his door at me and yelled that he didn't want any over and over. It was like he didn't even know me. I wasn't sure what he meant by that and I was scared for him so I called his younger sister since she lives only a few minutes away. On the phone she told me that he was switching medications. Once she came over she tried to talk to him through his gate and he kept telling her to leave in a manic type voice. I finally got a hold of his older sister and she went and saw him later that night. She explained to him that I thought he was experiencing Psychosis from not tapering the medication slowly enough. My friend said yes he was experiencing Psychosis and that he could barley handle her being there.
 
I have since sent both of my friends sisters this article about Discontinuation Syndrome, “Discontinuing an antidepressant? Tapering tips to ease distressing symptoms”. In Current Psychiatry March 2010. By David J. Muzina, MD Vice president and national practice leader for neurosciences, Medco Health Solutions, Fort Worth, TX. They both now understand how serious Discontinuation Syndrome is and they also want him to get a Sleep Study once he is stable again. Though my friend is not completely stable he did text me that he is doing better but he is still up and down. 

Edited February 12, 2014 by Altostrata
fixed text

[Altostrata]

Thank you for mentioning that article, LisasLove. See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5308-muzina-2010-discontinuing-an-antidepressant-tapering-tips-to-ease-distressing-symptoms/

[LisasLove]

I guess I spoke too soon yesterday. I felt like I have taken 5 steps backwards today. I didn't sleep much and my "electrical headaches" are really bad today. I have been feeling really agitated. I may need to go back up a does. When will this end...

[Nikki]

Hi Lisa....

 

The only med you have taken and I have taken is the Celexa.  I just recently tapered off of it (quickly) because I am tapering onto another med (nefazadone).  I do have WD issues.  Not bad.

 

I am sorry I can't advise you or make suggestions on the other two meds.

 

Of all of the ssri's that I have taken (Paxil Lexapro Celexa) Celexa was not bad for me to get off of and wish the same for you,  It did give me insomnia after each drop in dose and there was crying, heightened anxiety, but have been able to manage.

 

I don't know if this applies to you but when there are other stressors the WD can feel worse.  I guess deciding on continuing or discontinuing work is stressful in itself.  I have always found work to be a saving grace.  But I can work and some people simply cannot.

 

Keep posting and best regards

[LisasLove]

I am now on liquid Celexa and tapering .25 CC every two weeks. My Pdoc is concerned that my symptoms are not getting better. Every time I change my dose my symptoms get worse for about three or four days (it's like I am going through a withdrawal within a withdrawal). Then I will go back to the same level pain and all of a sudden out of the blue the symptoms get worse again. I just don't understand these electric headaches and tinnitus. When am I going to get better?

 

The Pdoc did give me a prescription for Lamotrigine to try to help my sleep. The first couple nights I have been real tired and it helped me sleep but we will see if it lasts.

 

Has anyone found something that will help with the pain of these electric headaches? It's so hard to tell what is helping and what is hindering this pain. 

 

I think I may have wasted my time and money with the Alternative Doctor that was trying to help me with supplements. I have been off the supplements for about a month and I don't really feel any different. I am going to go back on the fish oil and see if that helps.

[Meimeiquest]

Hi LL, so good to hear from you. I was wondering how things were going. I have to admit I cringe whenever I hear of a schedule...I wonder if you maybe need to recover more thoroughly between cuts. Just my two cents.

[LisasLove]

Hi Me,

I do push out the schedule if I need to. One cut caused some mild anxiety so I pushed out my next cut by a month. I just wish that my original symptoms would show more improvement. It's like the Celexa never allowed me to fully recover from the Zoloft withdrawal. It's like being caught between a rock and a hard place. My only hope is that once I taper off of the Celexa my symptoms will show improvement and will go away.

 

Does anyone know of something that will help with the headaches? Has anyone tried high doses of fish oil?

[bubble]

Hello LL,

 

I had problems sleeping tonight so among other things read your thread from beginning till now. Very painful and complex story.

 

I just wanted to share soem of my impressions after reading your story. It is actually a very common pattern that a lot of us go through: going to all sorts of doctors who literally treat us as guinea pigs, experimenting on us with changing meds, updosing, decreasing, stopping, etc. It takes a long time to realise that such treatments coming from the established professionals are actually very harmful and the very thing that causes the trouble it wants to address.

 

I saw how your posts were full of various doctors who only caused more havoc. I admire how you managed to survive all that!

 

It seems that now you are closer to understanding and accepting what Rhi and Alto wrote for you and I'm quoting it below.

 

One of many things I found very beneficial on this forum is not so much focusing on my own issues but reading experiences of others. I don't know if you in that time when you were describing your visits to various doctors looked at what other people here were going through and how they dealt with things. This is a great source of first hand knowledge that nobody else has yet gathered and established professionals know very little about.

 

Once again, I was amazed with your struggle and endurance and hope tzhings have and will continue to improve for you.

 

How did you sort out the working situation?

 

best,

bubble

 

 

It's always hard to say for sure, but I'm inclined to agree with Alto: treat your nervous system gently. Going up and down on doses and on and off meds hasn't made you better so far. Perhaps taking a number of months to just allow your body to settle down, rather than changing things up again, might be helpful. At least worth considering.

 

When we're suffering the urge is always to try to find something to fix it, some trick of meds, supplements, something. I feel the same way when I get bad. But often that's exactly the wrong thing to do and what we need most of all is patience and time, lots of time.

 

The exception to that would be maybe if you're on too high a dose of Zoloft--it sounds like you quite recently went up to 100 mg. If that's aggravating your problems you might consider a stepwise decrease to 75 or 50. However, from what you've described, I would not expect that--or anything else--to produce immediate results, or even results soon. And it does sound like you're sleeping better--would hate to mess with that.

 

 

I would be careful with those mysterious mixed supplements. Some may contain ingredients that are activating.

 

Also, be careful with 5-HTP and SAM-e. They can be too strong. See this discussion http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/656-5-htp-5-hydroxytryptophan-and-tryptophan/

 

Unless the doctor has seen withdrawal syndrome before, naturopathic treatment is often not helpful and may be harmful.

[mammaP]

Hi LL, the electric headaches, or 'brain zaps' are withdrawal symptoms. Cutting celexa every 2 weeks is too fast

for you brain to keep up. I would updose slightly to the dose before the last cut and see if that helps. 

 

 

I find that fish oil helps the headaches, and magnesium can be helpful for sleep. You've done well to get off

the other drugs, and may need to take longer for the celexa to keep withdrawal at bay.  Take care with

lamotrigine too, if you take it regularly you will end up having to wean off that too. 

It's hard to carry on as normal when affected by withdrawal, that's why this site recommends cuts of no more

than 10% of the current dose every 4 -6 weeks. Getting off quicker doesn't mean that you will be better faster,

it could make things worse because withdrawal can take many months or even years to get better. 

 

If updosing helps, I would stay there for several weeks to stabilise before restarting a taper. 

[LisasLove]

I understand the withdrawal from lowering my medication to quickly. The symptoms get worse when I cut to quickly (it's like a withdrawal within a withdrawal). But what I don't understand is how to heal from the original symptoms. Is it just time?

 

I have read stories of high levels of fish oil helping people with traumatic head injuries. So I thought I might research this more. 

 

In regards to my job I am on short-term disability. My Pdoc has helped my MD and the insurance company understand what I am going through.

[Altostrata]

I agree with mammaP. Even though you went on Celexa, you still have withdrawal symptoms from Zoloft, and every time you make a cut in Celexa, you stir up those symptoms again.

 

Many people find they need to stop tapering for a while to let withdrawal symptoms settle down. You might hold for a couple of months or more.

 

I am now on liquid Celexa and tapering .25 CC every two weeks. My Pdoc is concerned that my symptoms are not getting better. Every time I change my dose my symptoms get worse for about three or four days (it's like I am going through a withdrawal within a withdrawal). Then I will go back to the same level pain and all of a sudden out of the blue the symptoms get worse again. I just don't understand these electric headaches and tinnitus. When am I going to get better?

 

The Pdoc did give me a prescription for Lamotrigine to try to help my sleep. The first couple nights I have been real tired and it helped me sleep but we will see if it lasts.

 

Has anyone found something that will help with the pain of these electric headaches? It's so hard to tell what is helping and what is hindering this pain. 

 

I think I may have wasted my time and money with the Alternative Doctor that was trying to help me with supplements. I have been off the supplements for about a month and I don't really feel any different. I am going to go back on the fish oil and see if that helps.

 

How much lamotrigine are you taking?

 

Please let your current psychiatrist know that this may be a good time to just let your nervous system rest, instead of adding more drugs.

 

Hi Me,

I do push out the schedule if I need to. One cut caused some mild anxiety so I pushed out my next cut by a month. I just wish that my original symptoms would show more improvement. It's like the Celexa never allowed me to fully recover from the Zoloft withdrawal. It's like being caught between a rock and a hard place. My only hope is that once I taper off of the Celexa my symptoms will show improvement and will go away.

 

Does anyone know of something that will help with the headaches? Has anyone tried high doses of fish oil?

 

Many people do well with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

I understand the withdrawal from lowering my medication to quickly. The symptoms get worse when I cut to quickly (it's like a withdrawal within a withdrawal). But what I don't understand is how to heal from the original symptoms. Is it just time?

 

I have read stories of high levels of fish oil helping people with traumatic head injuries. So I thought I might research this more. 

 

In regards to my job I am on short-term disability. My Pdoc has helped my MD and the insurance company understand what I am going through.

 

I'm glad you found a doctor who is helpful. Does this person know anything about tapering?

[Rhiannon]

Sounds to me like the approach of quitting drugs too fast, adding and changing meds, and throwing in supplements, is getting the typical results.

 

In answer to your question, how to heal long term, yes, the answer is time. Time and sensible, gentle support to your body and CNS, not disrupting and jerking it around more with meds and med changes. All of that stuff just disrupts the healing process. It's very important NOT to knee-jerk react to symptoms by changing things. Symptoms will wax and wane, come and go, no matter what you do, that just seems to be how the healing process happens.

 

I don't particularly expect you to take any of this to heart, but on the off chance that you will, I have to say it. You need to quit looking for "fixes" and you need to absolutely quit changing your meds and quit tapering now for at least three to six months, and allow your CNS to find some kind of reasonable homeostasis. Continuing to perturb your neurochemistry makes that impossible.

[LisasLove]

I guess I am looking for any antidote to get me back to work. I am watching my productive life as I once knew it disappear and I want to use every resource that I now have to get my life back. However, I am thankful I don't have the insane emotional part of this withdrawal that I once had. I am also very thankful that I have had my Fiancé by my side through all of this. I truly don't think I would be here today if it wasn't for her. 

 

The first couple of days I took 12.5 mg of Lamotrigine (Lamictal) and now I am taking 25 mg. I have only been on it for a week. The first couple of days it made me really tired and helped with my sleep. I think it helped a little but last night I didn't sleep at all.

 

Does anyone have some papers on what is happening to our CNS? Some sort of explanation or theory?

[bubble]

Sounds to me like the approach of quitting drugs too fast, adding and changing meds, and throwing in supplements, is getting the typical results.

 

In answer to your question, how to heal long term, yes, the answer is time. Time and sensible, gentle support to your body and CNS, not disrupting and jerking it around more with meds and med changes. All of that stuff just disrupts the healing process. It's very important NOT to knee-jerk react to symptoms by changing things. Symptoms will wax and wane, come and go, no matter what you do, that just seems to be how the healing process happens.

 

I don't particularly expect you to take any of this to heart, but on the off chance that you will, I have to say it. You need to quit looking for "fixes" and you need to absolutely quit changing your meds and quit tapering now for at least three to six months, and allow your CNS to find some kind of reasonable homeostasis. Continuing to perturb your neurochemistry makes that impossible.

 Rhi said it all. Some people don't get it immediately. Some people make a full circle and come again here 'remorseful'...

 

My favourite explanation, written by Rhi:

 

A lot of people, including healthcare practitioners; in fact, I guess, most people-- are operating from entirely the wrong paradigm, or way of thinking, about these meds. They're thinking of them like aspirin--as something that has an effect when it's in your system, and then when it gets out of your system the effect goes away.

 

That's not what happens with medications that alter neurotransmitter function, we are learning.

 

What happens when you change the chemistry of the brain is, the brain adjusts its chemistry and structure to try to return to homeostasis, or biochemical and functional balance. It tries to restabilize the chemistry. 

 

For example: SSRI antidepressants work as "serotonin reuptake inhibitors." That is, they cause serotonin to remain in the space between neurons, rather than being taken back up into the cells to be re-used, like it would be in a normal healthy nondrugged brain.

 

So the brain, which wants to re-establish normal signaling and function, adapts to the higher level of serotonin between neurons (in the "synapse", the space between neurons where signals get passed along). It does this by removing serotonin receptors, so that the signal is reduced and changed to something closer to normal. It also decreases the amount of serotonin it produces overall. 

 

To do that, genes have to be turned on and off; new proteins have to be made; whole cascades of chemical reactions have to be changed, which means turning on and off OTHER genes; cells are destroyed, new cells are made; in other words, a complex physiologic remodeling takes place. This takes place over time. The brain does not grow and change rapidly. 

 

This is a vast oversimplification of the amount of adaptation that takes place in the brain when we change its normal chemistry, but that's the principle.

 

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay.

 

When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse.

 

SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. 

 

It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. 

 

I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long. 

 

With multiple drugs and a history of drug changes and cold turkeys, all of this becomes even more complicated. And if a person is started on these kinds of drugs at an early age before the brain has ever completely established normal mature functioning--well, it can't be good. (All of which is why I recommend an extremely slow taper particularly to anyone with a multiple drug history, a history of many years on meds, a history of past cold turkeys or frequent med changes, and a history of being put on drugs at a young age.)

 

This isn't intended to scare people, but hopefully to give you some idea of what's happening, and to help you respect and understand the process so you can work with it; ALSO, because you are likely to encounter many, many people who still believe these drugs work kind of like aspirin, or a glass of wine, and all you need to do is stop and get it out of your system. 

 

Now you can explain to them that no, getting it out of your system is not the issue; the issue is, you need to regrow or at least remodel your brain. This is a long, slow, very poorly understood process, and it needs to be respected. 

[Rhiannon]

Wow, Bubble, thanks for finding that! I have a lot of stuff like that tucked around the forum different places.

 

So yes, the above, and that's why trying to find a "fix" just messes it up worse. Your brain is trying to readjust itself, to normalize, to achieve homeostasis. This process requires more turning on and off of genes, creating proteins, building things with those proteins and putting them into place, building new cells and cell networks, all kinds of stuff. None of these things happen quickly.

 

Each time you throw a new chemical in there it has to start over, throw out what it was doing, try to scramble to balance with the NEW chemical situation even though it still hasn't recovered from the one before that, and the one before that.

 

Each time you throw in new chemical perturbations, you increase the chaos and tangled up confusion of the chemistry that's in there, and you worsen the mess AND prolong the time it's going to take to heal.  

 

Now, people can handle a certain amount of this, but 100% predictably everyone comes to a point where things are just getting worse and no drugs, meds or supplements are going to fix them; in fact that stuff is just going to make the problem worse.

 

I've seen people get a lot worse than you are now by continuing with this paradigm and this strategy, and it is NOT a pretty sight. It will definitely not move you in the direction of being more functional. There's a reason disability claims due to mental illness have skyrocketed in the US since the widespread use of psychiatric drugs began in the latter part of the 20th century. (see Anatomy of an Epidemic.)

 

There was a time I was in such bad shape friends urged me to apply for disability myself. And I was disabled, barely able to work. I'm glad I kept fighting until I discovered what the problem really was. The problem was actually caused by the solutions I was trying--more and more psych meds. (Including Lamictal, lots of us get that one thrown at it sooner or later.)

 

Among the people on this forum we have literally talked to and worked with hundreds and hundreds of people, maybe thousands, and in all that time there is no indication of a "fix" that works. The absolute best and safest thing is to stay out of trouble in the first place. Second best, interrupt the crash as early in the process as possible. That's the best you can do at this point. It's going to take some time, a lot of time. It will be worth it.

 

Edit: Removed some unnecessary polemic.

[Rhiannon]

hey bubble maybe you can hang on to that one for me too? I'm better at writing them than I am at keeping track of them. It might be a nice resource to have.

[bubble]

hey bubble maybe you can hang on to that one for me too? I'm better at writing them than I am at keeping track of them. It might be a nice resource to have.

 

Well, I personally love to read your explanations (still haven't read the Anatomy of Epidemic...)

 

The piece above is my favourite, I saved it on my PC and feel the need to quote it to many members wondering what is happening with them. I would like to have it pinned down as a must read for developing the right outlook for successful tapering... I think that many people struggle so badly because they don't understand the rationale which you so beautifully describe: a great blend of science and common sense

 

I don't know what the process is and who should start it

[Proteus]

Yep this phenomenon of the brain having to grow new connections is called neuroplasticity. I have been aware of it for many years but have never since my last big taper been courageous enough to attempt the last phase. My current dose of 37,5 mg venlafaxine (effexor) on which I have been holding for many years, tapering finally is being attempted. I am now on day four of my 5 bead taper, and so far I think I am doing fine. Last night however, my partner and I came from a trip and we were both tired and as a result there was some tension between us, and this affected me adversely for about two hours. I was experiencing heavy anxiety, but I doodled around on my laptop and was watching some documentary, until it passed. Thankfully I have had none of the awful brain zaps and sensations of disorientation which is so awful when coming down off effexor. My plan is to hold this taper (5 bead) for at least one month and if I am stable enough (not too many recurring episodes of heavy anxiety) then I will attempt to go down another 5 beads.

 

I live for the day when I will be able to say that I am. drug free. For many years I had been in too much stress so was unable to even consider to attempt the final taper.  Now I am in a loving relationship and finally things are settled enough in my life to take this big step

[LisasLove]

I thought this might be interesting to some of you.

 

While I was at USC going through my last MRI, I met with one of USC’s top Neurosurgeons, he and I talked about my last MRI and he said there was nothing that he saw on the MRI that would be causing the problems I was going through. We went on to talk more about antidepressants and that my belief along with several other doctors, were that my symptoms were related to my withdrawal from Zoloft. Though he couldn't help me he went on to tell me a story and his view about antidepressants.

 

He asked me if I knew who Egas Moniz was and I said no, he went on to ask me if I ever heard of the procedure called a lobotomy. Well of course I heard of a lobotomy, so I said yes. He said that Egas Moniz received the Nobel Prize for Physiology of Medicine in 1949 for the discovery of the therapeutic value of lobotomy in certain psychoses. He said that society’s view of a lobotomy has changed over the years and since is not common practice in the United States. As a society today we wouldn't even think of doing this procedure. His belief is that over time that society as whole will feel about antidepressant the same way we currently feel about a lobotomy.

[Altostrata]

That seems about right to me. You found a sympathetic doctor.

[Meimeiquest]

Some of us listened to some info from Kelly Brogan, MD. She is an integrative psychiatrist in NYC, and she consults drug withdrawal patients on Skype. I haven't had any direct contact with her. I believe her website is www.kellybroganmd.com (it's on the recommended doctors list if I'm wrong).

[bubble]

I wrote this in September 2011 after I attended a lecture by Will Hall.

 

Last night I came to the last 30 minutes of a lecture, actually an exchange between an amazing guy named Will Hall and his audience mostly sitting on the floor of a crowded room. After these 30 minutes I spent standing in the hot room certain things began dawning on me...

 

Today we don't have to explain to anyone that lobotomy is not a treatment but a dreadful example of a total lack of understanding and helplessness in the face of human suffering authoritatively disguised as a 'scientific' method. The time will come when we will have an equal attitude to putting people in restraints, into solitary confinements and drugging them senseless while believing we are helping them. I just hope that day will come soon. Unfortunately, the science doesn't understand mental illness any better today than it did when it promoted lobotomy.

 

What is indeed frightening is that they are hiding their ignorance behind doors of a sacred profession that nobody is allowed to challenge because nobody has that special knowledge they claim to have. How would all our lives be different if all people simply said: I don't know when they don't know something...

[Altostrata]

Lisas, does that doctor know anything about tapering? Perhaps he can help.

[LisasLove]

Lisas, does that doctor know anything about tapering? Perhaps he can help.

 

Yes, I have a Pdoc from your list that has been helping me for a little less than a year now. Without my Pdoc I would have never made it this far. I am tapering 1/4 CC per two weeks. However, my Pdoc is very honest with me and has explained that there is no cure that he knows of and that my symptoms may never go away. My Pdoc has seen it all and he is worried that my main symptoms have not decreased since the start of the taper.

 

Though my Pdoc believes that supplements are good for overall health, my Pdoc believed that I was wasting my money seeing the other MD that was handling my supplements. In fact, I read in Peter Breggin's book Medication Madness that, "there are at present no specific medications that help with drug withdrawal, other than tapering the offending agent or similar drugs." He also stated that, "I do not know of any supplement with proven value for drug withdrawal but you can certainly find many suggestions in books and on the Internet." Lastly, he say, "In general, remember that anything you take that "works," even if its is "natural," is adding to the load of chemicals that your brain must contend with." However, it is difficult watching my life as I once new it slip away. 

 

My manger kept saying that he was going to fire me for low production even though I explained my situation to him. I couldn't believe he actually said this to me but he told me that Zoloft wouldn't have even been in my system in the amount of time that I was on it. Can you believe that now my manager think's he is a doctor. See what I was up against. I am truly between a rock and hard place in every direction I go. I was looking for any answer or help to get through this so I didn't lose my job and my insurance. I was paying $600 a month to see the other supplement MD and he was having me take somewhere around 10 supplements a day. This was my last hope to find a supplement that would cure me. I haven't seen the supplement MD for two months now and I pretty much in the same place I was while I was seeing him.

[Altostrata]

I am sorry you are having such a difficult time.

 

I agree, there are no supplements that can compensate for gradual tapering. Some can help soften symptoms a bit. Please see our Symptoms and Self-care forum for suggestions.

[LisasLove]

So what is this? Withdrawal, Neurotoxicity or both? My Neurologist says Zoloft withdrawal, my GP says Serotonin withdrawal and my Pdoc says Neurotoxicity.

 

My core symptoms tinnitus, severe headache, fatigue, insomnia and electric shock like sensations are not going away. The core symptoms vary in intensity but they do not go away. My brain is constantly trying to find a relationship to what is causing the variation in the intensity of these core symptoms. Alcohol is usually a bad thing. Sometimes sweets can also be a bad thing. The only thing I can put my finger on that helps is sleep. Lots of good sleep is a good thing. I don't exercise much but adrenaline seems to help a little with the head shocks. 

[Altostrata]

All of those vague terms mean the same thing. Your symptoms are caused by adverse effects of the drug and withdrawal.

 

Get a lot of sleep on a regular schedule.

[LisasLove]

Well I have been off all drugs for about 6 months and I still have the core symptoms tinnitus, severe headache (pressure, burning and electric shock type sensation), fatigue, insomnia and sore eyes. The Opthamologist says that it's like I am allergic to something (inflammation). My eyes have been this way since the withdrawal from Zoloft. The insomnia is getting a little better and the acid burning feeling in my head is a littler better.

 

On another board I have talked to someone who said that high CBD low THC has helped her with what she said was seizure type shocking sensations. Anyone have any experience with High doses of CBD medical marijuana?

[LoveandLight]

I would be very careful with that. I have heard of accounts where it has really backfired. You have done so much work in tapering and getting to this place, it would be awful if you took something that would make it worse.

[LisasLove]

I would be very careful with that. I have heard of accounts where it has really backfired. You have done so much work in tapering and getting to this place, it would be awful if you took something that would make it worse.

I know, I just want to find something that will work so I can get back to work. It is a very little amount of THC less than 1% and the CBD is 12.5%. CBD is non-psychoactive and I thought if it had helped someone else with withdrawal than it may work for me as well. My Pdoc doesn't think it will do any harm but he doesn't have any experience with it either. He has heard the same as me that it has helped young children with seizures and since I am having an electrical problem with my brain we thought it might help. He said if I wanted to try it I would have his ok to do so.

[Altostrata]

LL, have you tried this? Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/
 

[LisasLove]

LL, have you tried this? Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

Yes, I tried fish oil and magnesium supplements. Back when I was taking them I could never find out if it was helping or hindering, it seemed like every thing I was taking or doing creating more problems for me or made me feel worse.

[LisasLove]

I have been off all drugs for about 8 months and I still have the physical symptoms ( tinnitus, severe headache (pressure, burning and electric shock type sensation), fatigue, insomnia and sore eyes). I noticed that I still have jerks when i am relaxing or trying to fall a sleep. They're not as common as they use to be though. My sleep study showed that I was having 12 or so in a six hour period now I only feel a few a night. I also still have floaters in my eyes but I find that I must be getting use to them because I don't pay a lot of attention to them. 

 

One thing that I find interesting is that I don't go straight to the acid burning headache if I drink a glass of alcohol. I am not advocating drinking alcohol but just find it hopeful that I may be recovering from some of this.

 

Does anyones symptoms get worse when they drive or read for an extended period of time? My Pdoc thinks that it is just fatigue but I think it is something related to my eyes and the scanning that takes place while looking at the highway and/or pc screen.