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Tuskentank

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Hi,

 

My signature pretty much explains where I'm at now, except I no longer feel suicidal (just really depressed by the sensitivity to so many foods supplements). I should have mentioned that I took the Risperidone for 5 days (1mg in evening) but it made me numb (could still feel the sensitivities but they did did not bother me.

 

Had burning sensations in my legs, arms, even when I tried to walk (kind of like constant sunburn) but that has subsided with the citalopram. Definitely not strong enough to start a taper on that yet, and am going to work on trying to get off the sleeping tablets (been on them a week).

 

Nobody believes what is wrong with me. Docs are treating it as some sort of anxiety-related delusion. My wife thinks I'm bi-polar, which is really hurting. I lover her and I think she wants to see the calm that the Risperidone brought about in 5 days. I am just at a loss as to what to do.

 

I haven't been in work now in 3 weeks (off sick), and am trying to stay positive, but I could do with some really good practical advice on how to cope. I used to be able to train, and cannot do that now, other than go for gentle walks, but even that was triggering my anxiety for a bit. I don't want to move up on the citalopram anymore. The sort of things I need to know are:

 

I pushed through the 'kindling' effect of fluoxetine. Has anyone pushed through this with supplements? Inositol is supposed to be good for depression but I tried to push too hard and my system now rejects it.

 

Is Lamictal good for taking the edge off the 'Fight or Flight' response in very low doses?

I currently experience severe anxiety when I go into town, but this never happened to me before I came off the fluoxetine. Is exposure therapy a way of teaching my system to cope with this or would it strain it?

I don't want to become a complete shut in because the reality is I will have to go back to work in a few weeks. I have 4 young children and bills to pay. My work is busy now, but not as stressful as it used to be. 

 

I just really need to hear how people have learned to cope with this sensitivity. I don't want or need horror stories. I love my wife and children dearly and need some encouragement now, and practical advice for living with this. Thanks all.

 

P.S. Alto, I read that you had been treated by someone who was helping you heal your CNS? No doctor here believes what is wrong with me (all pushing pills). Sorry if I've missed it, but if you could post anything at all about this experience and practical tips to help heal I'd really appreciate it.

Update 05/10/14: 11mg fluoxetine, 1.3mg diazepam (slow microtaper of both). Off olanzapine about 6-8 months?

Currently taking: histamine degrading probiotics, a glass of milk kefir mixed with natural yoghurt, flaxseed and slippery elm (split into two doses, one AM & one PM), butyric acid, high dose b vitamins, additional panthenine & a very healthy diet (no grains at all).

 

I believe that the answers to healing are in the gut. God bless you all.

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Tusk, just want to say hi.  Sounds like you are in withdrawal and that can be hell! 

I too am very sensitive to supplements and drugs, even paracetamol is a no-no

and it's all down to being on and off meds over the years,  I just don't take any supplements

any more except fish oil which seems to be good for withdrawal and is recommended by 

Alto and the other experts.  They will be along shortly and my only advice right now is to 

listen to what is said. Alto and co have done all the research for you and really know their stuff.

If there's anything you don't understand, just ask and you will be given links to the research

so you can see for yourself where the advice is coming from. You really are in the very best place here

and I hope you will soon be coping much better. Just understanding what is wrong helps healing

tremendously. 

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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Thanks mammaP. I spoke to my wife today, and I'm hoping she'll gradually come round to believing me. She has said she does at least and that's a start. She works in psychology so the meds are part and parcel of that unfortunately. She did tell me to get out and do something about it though, rather than sitting in, and I know this is the best approach as hard as it is. I've been taking high strength EPA fish oil from Mind1st here in UK since I started back on the fluoxetine last time, so I hope that might mean my brain is at least a bit more elastic for recovery. Was able to go into town today after I had introduced a few more carbs to my diet (sweet potato and wholegrain bread). Gonna try really hard to get out of the house as much as I can, as sitting in just makes me more sensitive to everything. 

 

Was thinking of trying the melatonin to replace the sleeping tablets and was reading some of the forum advice about getting black out blinds to help with the early awakening and anxiety. We can get circadin prescribed in the UK at 2mg but think that dose will be too intense for now. Gonna take a quarter of a tablet and let it build up in my system. Have woodland near us so trying to take the kids out a walk there when I can as well. Hate this 'fight or flight' thing, but only been on 20mg citalopram for 2 weeks so I'm hoping that will at least help get me to a level where I can function day to day. 

Update 05/10/14: 11mg fluoxetine, 1.3mg diazepam (slow microtaper of both). Off olanzapine about 6-8 months?

Currently taking: histamine degrading probiotics, a glass of milk kefir mixed with natural yoghurt, flaxseed and slippery elm (split into two doses, one AM & one PM), butyric acid, high dose b vitamins, additional panthenine & a very healthy diet (no grains at all).

 

I believe that the answers to healing are in the gut. God bless you all.

 

 

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  • Administrator

Welcome, tuskentank.

 

My guess is the kindling effect you had from going back on fluoxetine again was your nervous system saying it was too much for you.  "Pushing through" kindling subjected your nervous system to more excessive stimulation. This causes hypersensitivity to all neuroactive drugs, supplements, and foods.

 

I guess if citalopram is helping, that's a good thing. If it's hurting, you may be wise to gradually reduce the dosage.

 

I've written about my treatment here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/392-one-theory-of-antidepressant-withdrawal-syndrome/

 

Other topics of interest http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/603-what-is-antidepressant-withdrawal-syndrome/

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hello, Tuskentank.

 

Your CNS has taken quite a beating over the years from all the starts and stops of medication, so it's no surprise that you're having severe withdrawal symptoms. It's not at all uncommon for withdrawal syndrome to kick in weeks to months out after discontinuing an antidepressant abruptly.

 

Antidepressants actually change the physical structure of the brain and the rest of the CNS so merely getting the drug out of one's body doesn't alleviate withdrawal.  In fact, the opposite is the case--quitting an AD cold turkey is like yanking a crutch away from someone with a broken leg.  We recommend a slow taper at 10% or less of the current dosage to support the CNS as it normalizes again.  See:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

 

You're right about there being no quick fix.  In fact, the fewer changes you make and the less you try to hurry things along, the better.  In my opinion, the best thing you can do for yourself right now is to continue doing exactly what you're doing. I wouldn't increase the dose of Citalopram or add any other drugs to the mix and I would leave supplements alone except for the fish oil.  I think you're right to avoid the Risperdal, which is an antipsychotic that actually shrinks the physical size of the brain.  (I just read that recently, possibly here on the forum.) Getting through withdrawal takes a tremendous amount of patience because there's nothing at all you can do to speed up the process.

 

Here's a collection of topics on how to feel better without drugs:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/8-symptoms-and-self-care/

 

Welcome to the forum, Tuskentank.  You'll find lots of solid information and friendly support here.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 

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Hi Altostrata and Jemima, thanks for the feedback. The Citalopram has been really gentle apart from the odd bit of nausea, and making me a bit sleepy, so I might have to see about switching it to the evening. I would not be in a good place to start cutting back on the Citalopram yet though, and am trying to get to a level where I can function enough to return to work. I have had a few breakthrough moments today surprisingly, but I know things are still fragile. 

 

The burning sensations are gone, which is a good sign, and the Citalopram did not increase my anxiety either, so I'm taking it that's a good thing for now. I'm feeling tiny improvements sometimes. I really, really appreciate the support, folks. Take care and God bless all.

Update 05/10/14: 11mg fluoxetine, 1.3mg diazepam (slow microtaper of both). Off olanzapine about 6-8 months?

Currently taking: histamine degrading probiotics, a glass of milk kefir mixed with natural yoghurt, flaxseed and slippery elm (split into two doses, one AM & one PM), butyric acid, high dose b vitamins, additional panthenine & a very healthy diet (no grains at all).

 

I believe that the answers to healing are in the gut. God bless you all.

 

 

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Just an update: Been able to take high dose fish oils today and it has soothed some. Also had to take 20mg propanolol in the morning as the cortisol was so bad. Feel severely distressed in the morning, and then a wired feeling all day that does not really go away and still bad insomnia but the sleeping tablets give me some sleep. Have added in 2mg slow release Circadin (melatonin) and am hoping this might replace the sleeping tablets and take away that 'panic altert feeling' when I start to drift off to sleep.

 

Trying to cut down and took 3/4 last night and the night before after reinstating 

 

Taking a high EPA fish oil now around 2400mg a day with vit E and able to tolerate this today, Actually feel like it takes the edge off that horrible restlessness. I think it's akasthesia but my wife thinks it's anxiety. Also able to take chelated magnesium so hoping this helps as well, although my stomach feels a bit sensitive to what I put in it. The weird thing is the first night I took the melatonin, I felt a burning feeling in one of my legs again, and sensitivity in my head and stomach but this seems to have eased each night taking it.

 

I feel so depressed, and cannot see me going back to work in this state. I cannot handle stress. My wife is coming to psych with me tomorrow and wants me to try something to kill the 'anxiety' as she just wants me back. I love her so much, I would take a med to make this go away. I won't mention what I was considering as I am afraid someone will give me a horror story about it.

 

Felt a slight feeling of tenderness today towards my kids. I love them but this restless state makes me so unable to focus on anything. I need someone to help, just to give me some idea.

 

Going to go for a walk, as I have to get over the fact my training makes me worse, and have to let it sit. I worked so hard to be where I was at the gym, and it kills me now I might lose that. Somebody, please, how long before we know exercise is ok again? 

 

I can go walks into town ok, and have no problem talking to people, but feel like my 'fight or flight' system is shot to pieces. When I take the melatonin at night though I feel more relaxed if not completely sleepy. I had heard about people treating akaesthesia with that for schizoprenics affected at 8g a day, split in 4 x 2g doses but deffo don't want to push too hard there!

Update 05/10/14: 11mg fluoxetine, 1.3mg diazepam (slow microtaper of both). Off olanzapine about 6-8 months?

Currently taking: histamine degrading probiotics, a glass of milk kefir mixed with natural yoghurt, flaxseed and slippery elm (split into two doses, one AM & one PM), butyric acid, high dose b vitamins, additional panthenine & a very healthy diet (no grains at all).

 

I believe that the answers to healing are in the gut. God bless you all.

 

 

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I'm so sorry for your struggle. 

 

No one can give you a time frame. Everyone's system is different. 

 

I too, experience the sensitivities. In the beginning I tried to take Buspar for anxiety and was only able to take it for 4 days. 

 

I have learned the hard way that I'm better off taking little to nothing. (including supplements and vitamins)

 

The only thing I take now is a homeopathic remedy.....very rarely, though.

 

I've found that for me, the less I mess with my system, the better. This includes psych meds. 

 

You will get you back. You just gotta hold on.

Started Fluoxetine Jan. 2010

Tried to go off of it in Sept. 2010

Weaned too fast and was back on it by Nov. 2010

Didn't work as good the second time around.

Started to wean again in Nov. 2011 and was off for good by April? 2012

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Thanks dunerbug. I have so many people around me relying on me though. I became suicidal and it would kill my parents for me to give up the 20mg citalopram, even to taper. Trying to see that a New Year's resolution for next year maybe. I won't be strong enough to do that for some time, and I would lose all support which would make life not worth living. Have an appointment tomorrow with the psyches and my wife is adamant I should be taking an anti-anxiety med or something that works that way. I don't feel anxious though, not really. The mornings are a really uncomfortable burning feeling of hyper arousal (is this the cortisol thing?)

 

I feel now like I could go into work and get on with my day though, feel really hyper. I think this has been worse since I took the Risperidone and came off (no problems the doc said after 5 days only). First 2 days were 24/7 anxiety, now it's just a pure adrenaline state. Been on the sleeping tablets now over 2 weeks and am scared about becoming addicted. But if I don't take them I lay awake all night and the mornings are even worse.

 

I think the 20mg Cit is stopping me despairing and I need that right now with a young family to provide for. I think though the fish oils are a big help there too, as this is my first day taking the high EPA ones again that I took throughout my time on fluoxetine. It helps to let it out on here. What do you do when your true love doesn't really believe you though? I love her so much, and I know she loves me.

Update 05/10/14: 11mg fluoxetine, 1.3mg diazepam (slow microtaper of both). Off olanzapine about 6-8 months?

Currently taking: histamine degrading probiotics, a glass of milk kefir mixed with natural yoghurt, flaxseed and slippery elm (split into two doses, one AM & one PM), butyric acid, high dose b vitamins, additional panthenine & a very healthy diet (no grains at all).

 

I believe that the answers to healing are in the gut. God bless you all.

 

 

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My husband and I have struggled through my withdrawal. He has really been there for me but I know it is hard on him. 

 

He has a difficult time helping me through my anxieties. (ocd)

 

I worry that one day he'll burn out. He tells me almost daily that he won't.

 

I have told him before that I wish I could go away somewhere, where I'll I'd have to deal with was myself. Not realistic at all. 

 

It is difficult to go through this when people count on you, I know. 

 

It may be a good idea to be on your current does of 20mg until you stabilize. Then, if you feel ready, you can start a very slow taper.

 

There are a lot of people on this site that are very knowledgeable in regards to tapering. 

 

In the meantime, try to go easy on yourself and take it one day at a time.

Started Fluoxetine Jan. 2010

Tried to go off of it in Sept. 2010

Weaned too fast and was back on it by Nov. 2010

Didn't work as good the second time around.

Started to wean again in Nov. 2011 and was off for good by April? 2012

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I just want echo what Jemima said. 

 

I wouldn't add anything else to the mix, outside of fish oil and your current 20mg dose.

 

No more meds or supplements. 

 

Hang in there!

Started Fluoxetine Jan. 2010

Tried to go off of it in Sept. 2010

Weaned too fast and was back on it by Nov. 2010

Didn't work as good the second time around.

Started to wean again in Nov. 2011 and was off for good by April? 2012

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What do you do when your true love doesn't really believe you though? I love her so much, and I know she loves me.

 

Hi Tuskentank, first my sympathy, what a terrible time you been through.

 

I'd say you two go to relationship counselling, and do it asap. My husband didn't (or still doesn't) accept what I say about my feelings is true -- a different story yet with the same element of disbelief -- and 3 weeks into relationship counselling I can see that he might believe me and yet also I might understand why he did not believe me. I write this even while I am still realising the hurt he's given me, which is irrelevant to you but would argue that I do have hope of a breakthrough, even possibly mutual (!), because of the counselling. I wish we'd done it sooner.

 

And also, from me who's only ever taken the one med, citalopram, for about a year to stop smoking (but also I've got mild GAD), and tried to come off ... I do think that those who have not taken these meds do not have any idea what it is like to start and stop them. For instance, I noticed after 7 months of Cit being suddenly lighter, more so than the first burst after 4--8 weeks. I took advantage of that and started being 'back to my normal' (motivated state) but husband did not notice so I got more entrenched in my own feeling better... And then to come off them too fast is hellish (and I've only tried once).

 

And to boot, my husband suffers from anxiety, and his brother and sister too: sister only has been on SSRIs, but for the last 20 years, now her son is too (genetic or learned or both, I don't know). But husband has always resisted taking an SSRI or any AD because of the side effect being on/coming off ... So, OK, it seems he's right -- but the point is he wasn't watching out for me when I was on/coming off. I've said this to him before for other instances in life, but it is only now at counselling (oh, I didn't say, also after I said I was ready to divorce him, which was hard but he wasn't listening! and I did mean it ...) that he is starting to really listen and understand me.

Started citalopram May 12, from 10 to 40 mg/d over 2 months

 

Wanted to come off in May 13 and did it too quickly: decrease from 40 to 0 mg/d over 2 weeks; WD from then onwards, increasing in intensity to be unbearable at 4 weeks later;  reinstated 10 mg/d for 2 days (WD severity halved); reinstated 20 mg/d (initial WD symptoms decreased but not gone entirely until after 8 weeks)

 

Started 5--7% taper: Aug 13: 19 mg/d, mild WD on day 3; thereafter none notable; Nov 13: 18 mg/d, no WD; Dec 13: 17 mg/day, no WD for 3 weeks, then (at Christmas) tearfulness; Jan 14: 16.7 mg/d, Apr 14: 15.7 mg/d, Jun 14: 14.5 mg/d; Jul 14: 13.5 mg/d (6.9% reduction), Aug 14: 12.5 mg/d (7.4% reduction)

 

Sharing experience makes a difference

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  • 3 weeks later...

Somebody please help me. I agreed with my wife and psych to move up to 40mg citalopram about 6 days ago. The first day was perfect - a very odd response to any increase in an AD I know, but then I realised I have always had this since my system became hypersensitive - one day good then the rest descend into terror, but the next days since have been hell, starting with a feeling in my stomach that is like a horrible restlessness that won't go away and that builds up. I also agreed to take Diazepam 5mg AM and 5mg PM to help with sleep. I also take 2mg circadin. 

 

My wife tells me I'm just paranoid, and the doctors think I have anxiety at levels of delusional intensity. I'm so scared. I've agreed to take these meds for another 2 weeks to see if any improvement occurs, but I just feel horrible. My heart doesn't race, my breathing does not get difficult. I just feel this horrible feeling just below my ribcage. I cannot function. I've been considering suicide as the pain is so bad, but I love my kids, I know I do, and my wife thinks the answer will just be more meds. I am so scared. She looks at me now with anger and frustration that I think I am doing myself more damage now, and I don't know anymore. I feel my best chance of any med to help wean off would be to go back on the fluoxetine, but I am so close to killing myself right now it scares me. 

 

There have been some tiny improvements in other ways, and this is what is heart-breaking, because my stomach is less sensitive now to foods, and I can train without feeling worse, although my arms and legs have started to burn, and I tire quicker (although I haven't trained in a while) but even the 5mg AM Diazepam I take barely kills the horrendous feelings I get taking the 40mg citalopram tablet. 

Update 05/10/14: 11mg fluoxetine, 1.3mg diazepam (slow microtaper of both). Off olanzapine about 6-8 months?

Currently taking: histamine degrading probiotics, a glass of milk kefir mixed with natural yoghurt, flaxseed and slippery elm (split into two doses, one AM & one PM), butyric acid, high dose b vitamins, additional panthenine & a very healthy diet (no grains at all).

 

I believe that the answers to healing are in the gut. God bless you all.

 

 

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  • Administrator

I would think if the increase has made you worse, the dosage is too much.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Dear Tuskentank, why was it thought a good idea to go from 20 to 40 mg citalopram? How long had you been on 20? Weren't you starting to feel better, like on 25th June you said 'I think the 20mg Cit is stopping me despairing'? Maybe you are very sensitive and, like Alto says, the increase is a bit too much?

 

If it helps, it's taken me since 5 June to begin to think I might be ok (today, so could be longer until I am really actually ...) But that's me having gone from 40 to 0 to 20, and on the way up (from 20 to 40) I did not feel anything much, so quite a different scenario to yours

 

And what is it like when you see your wife looking at you angrily and frustratingly? I would find it really hard to see my hubby want me to be 'different'. The most important thing is you are thinking of your kids and yet also your wife. You have so many things to juggle at the moment... don't worry if you're not perfect, or indeed if she isn't either. You are doing the right thing, keeping on keeping on, only time can give the chance for stuff to be resolved.

 

My heart is with you and I hope this helps

Started citalopram May 12, from 10 to 40 mg/d over 2 months

 

Wanted to come off in May 13 and did it too quickly: decrease from 40 to 0 mg/d over 2 weeks; WD from then onwards, increasing in intensity to be unbearable at 4 weeks later;  reinstated 10 mg/d for 2 days (WD severity halved); reinstated 20 mg/d (initial WD symptoms decreased but not gone entirely until after 8 weeks)

 

Started 5--7% taper: Aug 13: 19 mg/d, mild WD on day 3; thereafter none notable; Nov 13: 18 mg/d, no WD; Dec 13: 17 mg/day, no WD for 3 weeks, then (at Christmas) tearfulness; Jan 14: 16.7 mg/d, Apr 14: 15.7 mg/d, Jun 14: 14.5 mg/d; Jul 14: 13.5 mg/d (6.9% reduction), Aug 14: 12.5 mg/d (7.4% reduction)

 

Sharing experience makes a difference

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  • 4 weeks later...

Looking for some encouragement, as feeling really, really down. Was put into hospital with support of family to get help for what I desperately hoped was just an anxiety disorder. 4 weeks at 40mg citalopram was so painful in terms of side effects. Docs tried adding low dose Seroquel 25mg x 2 AM and PM but this had a paradoxical affect after first day and I developed severe stomach / bowel pain. My wfe kept telling me to stick out these side effects, but I know the difference between side effects and damage.

 

I ended up going to A & E on day release, and they said my blood sodium was getting very low and I was on my way to hyponatraemia. Looking at my diet this made sense, as i ate very little salt. I stopped the Seroquel after a week of torture on it, and the docs cut the citalopram on half 40mg to 20mg. I was at first relieved by the drop in side effects, but my mood has been fluctuating. Was put on 25mg x 3 Lyrica but again paradoxical reaction (chest pains, and crazy tickling sensation in stomach). 

 

Stuck this out for 5 days but wasn't even able to sleep whilst on sleeping tablets and circadin (2mg slow release melatonin).

 

Went on beta blockers alongside the citalopram for a few days (about 3) up to 2 days ago (10mg x 3 per day) but felt like I wanted to go it alone with the 20mg citalopram. Strangely found on the beta blockers that my gut sensitivities were greatly reduced (think it's to do with blocking adrenergic receptors in gut, which stopped the 'wooshes' to my brain).

 

Now I get the rushes from taking things I was able to take before, including fish oils and magnesium. Had also added in a probiotic thinking this would help heal my gut, but think this has made me more sensitive (get flu-like feelings and dizziness taking it).

 

I know I shouldn't have gone with all the meds, but I desperately wanted to believe this was just anxiety. Alto are you there? I realise I'll have to stop the pro-biotics and everything else except the meds, but I am so devastated by this. My only ray of hope is that a head nurse from the hospital spoke of admiring Doctor David Healy, and I asked if she could put a case for me to see him on NHS. I said that this should precipitate any further treatment. She listened to me, and for the first time did not dismiss what I was saying as just: "I could read anything off the internet."

 

She's putting my case to the consultant psych on Monday (one who is not a meds first type of person from what I'm told, so I am clinging to that).

 

Scared as I get adrenaline rushes when I take the 20mg citalopram and these last for around 3 - 4 hours. Still need a sleeping tablet and circadin to go to sleep, but even these are paradoxical now at first (although I get some sleep on the zopiclone).

 

Alto, I know you had a similar problem to me of the fight or flight response kicking in when you began to drift into sleep. You said a speciaiist stepped in at just the right time. How did they help you with that? 

 

I've been going to acupuncture and that helps somewhat, but then I go to drift off to sleep during it, and then 'fight or flight' kicks in. I'm afraid, as I cannot even take my fish oils or magnesium now. Could this be the pro-biotics making my gut more sensitive? A lot of the anxiety related stuff seems to start in my gut, but the fluey feeling and dizziness taking the pro-biotics is very disconcerting, and leads me to believe my body is attacking the pro-biotics like it does everything else.

Update 05/10/14: 11mg fluoxetine, 1.3mg diazepam (slow microtaper of both). Off olanzapine about 6-8 months?

Currently taking: histamine degrading probiotics, a glass of milk kefir mixed with natural yoghurt, flaxseed and slippery elm (split into two doses, one AM & one PM), butyric acid, high dose b vitamins, additional panthenine & a very healthy diet (no grains at all).

 

I believe that the answers to healing are in the gut. God bless you all.

 

 

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Can the food sensitivities heal whilst still on the meds? Everything seems to be triggering the adrenaline rushes now, even the bloody vegetables and sardines. Need help desperately now. Feel very depressed in the mornings still but the adrenaline rush from the tablets and the poor stress response is awful. Want to see how I fare stripped back to just the tablets for a bit.

 

Still chronic insomnia, although no morning cortisol rushes. Just severe depression, and not wanting to get out of bed. 

 

Need some messages of hope from people who have seen some progress. Is there anyone there with young children? 

Update 05/10/14: 11mg fluoxetine, 1.3mg diazepam (slow microtaper of both). Off olanzapine about 6-8 months?

Currently taking: histamine degrading probiotics, a glass of milk kefir mixed with natural yoghurt, flaxseed and slippery elm (split into two doses, one AM & one PM), butyric acid, high dose b vitamins, additional panthenine & a very healthy diet (no grains at all).

 

I believe that the answers to healing are in the gut. God bless you all.

 

 

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Just wanted to add that I am 38 years old. Can I still heal? Is that considered old or young? Sorry for being all over the place. I don't have anhedonia at the moment but am scared this might come back if I taper. Thing is that side effects of the current dose are killing me as well for most of the day. Feel pure adrenaline in my head.

 

Are any of the mods about? Can anyone let me know of healing stories at my age?

Update 05/10/14: 11mg fluoxetine, 1.3mg diazepam (slow microtaper of both). Off olanzapine about 6-8 months?

Currently taking: histamine degrading probiotics, a glass of milk kefir mixed with natural yoghurt, flaxseed and slippery elm (split into two doses, one AM & one PM), butyric acid, high dose b vitamins, additional panthenine & a very healthy diet (no grains at all).

 

I believe that the answers to healing are in the gut. God bless you all.

 

 

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  • Administrator

Tusk, all those drugs and changes and paradoxical reactions have further sensitized your system.

 

Yes, you can heal. You are young. You need to figure out how to stabilize your nervous system. Stop the drug experimentation.

 

Because of all the drugs you're taking, there are many confounding factors. If you are getting "adrenaline rushes" from taking 20mg citalopram, that dosage is too strong for you. It is also possible you are getting morning rebound from the zopliclone.

 

The combination of circadin and zopliclone may be too strong. Circadin alone might help. How long have you been taking zopliclone regularly? It can cause physiological dependency and requires tapering.

 

Possible routes of action would be 1) reduce citalopram 2) reduce zopliclone BUT NOT AT THE SAME TIME. It would be helpful if you kept notes on paper about your symptom pattern and how it fits with your drug dosage.

 

If you are reacting to fish oil or magnesium, reduce or discontinue.

 

See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/603-what-is-antidepressant-withdrawal-syndrome/

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Thanks Alto. The circadin isn't enough to help me sleep, and even though I am getting paradoxical reactions to both it and the zopiclone now I feel that at least it gives me some sleep. The 40mg to 20mg Citalopram drop was forced on me by doctors who denied my reactions to the other psyche meds and blamed the drop in blood sodium on the Citalopram.

 

I am sorry for ignoring previous advice, and am trying to get a liquid Citalopram to taper, but have been told they will refuse to change anything with my meds for 2 weeks. My wife still does not believe me. Would it be ok to reduce the Citalopram even though they dropped from 40mg to 20mg about a week ago? The best I can manage on my own would be to go to 15mg dosage and this would be a rough estimate at best.

 

Should I keep taking the 20mg for another few days? I have a few diazepam to get me through a holiday with my wife and kids for 3 days. I cannot concentrate or enjoy anything at present. They want to stick me back in the hospital to monitor me closely. I am asking for cases like yours to be presented in my defence tomorrow, and also the Bologna invetigators' report from March about the consistency on reports of long term withdrawal.

 

Could I avoid anhedonia if I reduced slowly enough? How are you now emotionally speaking? Did you experience anhedonia?

Update 05/10/14: 11mg fluoxetine, 1.3mg diazepam (slow microtaper of both). Off olanzapine about 6-8 months?

Currently taking: histamine degrading probiotics, a glass of milk kefir mixed with natural yoghurt, flaxseed and slippery elm (split into two doses, one AM & one PM), butyric acid, high dose b vitamins, additional panthenine & a very healthy diet (no grains at all).

 

I believe that the answers to healing are in the gut. God bless you all.

 

 

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  • Administrator

If you're getting an adverse reaction from 20mg citalopram, I would reduce it. See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2023-tips-for-tapering-off-celexa-citalopram/

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Thanks Alto. This is so scary.

Update 05/10/14: 11mg fluoxetine, 1.3mg diazepam (slow microtaper of both). Off olanzapine about 6-8 months?

Currently taking: histamine degrading probiotics, a glass of milk kefir mixed with natural yoghurt, flaxseed and slippery elm (split into two doses, one AM & one PM), butyric acid, high dose b vitamins, additional panthenine & a very healthy diet (no grains at all).

 

I believe that the answers to healing are in the gut. God bless you all.

 

 

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  • Administrator

It's unfortunate that people have to make these decisions because their doctors don't know enough about these drugs to be prescribing them safely.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

I would like to add, once you find the correct dosage of citalopram you need to stabilize and not even consider tapering further for a long while.  

 

That's the hardest part, because given what you've been through and how destabilized your CNS is now, you're not likely to feel well for quite some time no matter what you do with meds. And I'm concerned that you will turn to experimenting with more different meds to get relief. I understand the desire, believe me, but every time we go up and down and on and off various different meds we just destabilize the CNS further and as you can see the result can be quite terrible.

 

Definitely see Dr. Healy if you can. Maybe print out the advice you have gotten here and get his opinion of it.

 

Read the Symptoms and Self Care section of the forum for ideas on how to support your CNS and yourself through this difficult period while you are stabilizing. Given what you've been through I would expect it to take quite a few months before you settle down. 

 

I'd also highly recommend you get a copy of Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker.  You may not have the concentration right now to read it, but it's exhaustively researched and will give you solid information and data and references that you can use when the people in your life and your medical caregivers insist you're crazy and delusional and the meds aren't your problem. (Which they clearly are. Your case is, unfortunately, absolutely typical.)

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

A couple more things:  Gentle exercise only. Walking is best. If you find it makes you feel aggravated or anxious at all, slow way down, walk like an old man.  A time will come in the future when you can safely train again, but that's not now.

 

I'd be careful with the high dose fish oil. Stick with something less intense.

 

If it were me I would consider just holding on the 20 mg citalopram for a while. Ordinarily I would say to try a small cut if you're feeling overstimulated by it, but given your recent history with all the ups and downs and changes, I don't think it's really possible to say with any confidence that your current symptoms are actually being caused by the citalopram you're taking right now. And you seemed to do okay on 20 mg before.

 

And mostly, what I'm seeing is that your CNS must be an absolute chaotic wreck right now from trying to adapt to all the changes that it's been battered with recently. It's trying to regain homeostasis (biological balance) but all its chemistry is out of whack. The chemistry of our brains is incredibly complex and subtle and these drugs just savage it. So my instinct is to say, just STOP CHANGING THINGS for a while. Give your brain a consistent chemical mileu to which to adapt. Take the same drugs, same doses, same time every day for a while, if you can. Keep the regimen as simple and consistent as possible.

 

This could be the wrong advice. Unfortunately yours is not a simple case, quite the contrary. This is just the approach I would take if it were me.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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  • Administrator

Good advice, Rhi.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Thanks for the advice Rhi. I have to eat to survive so I can only hope that my system will stabilise if I give it the right foods. The 20mg dose turned against me the second week I took it, but things are so hard when my wife is telling me you need this medication, increase the dose, and the doctors all around me telling me you're suffering from a delusion. The pressure was there to try to get back to normal more quickly as their father. I am so scared, and I know I've done such damage to my system. I love my wife and kids and I have to somehow keep going for them. 

 

I am so scared. 

Update 05/10/14: 11mg fluoxetine, 1.3mg diazepam (slow microtaper of both). Off olanzapine about 6-8 months?

Currently taking: histamine degrading probiotics, a glass of milk kefir mixed with natural yoghurt, flaxseed and slippery elm (split into two doses, one AM & one PM), butyric acid, high dose b vitamins, additional panthenine & a very healthy diet (no grains at all).

 

I believe that the answers to healing are in the gut. God bless you all.

 

 

Link to post

I received a reply from Doctor Healy saying that he will see me on appointment via NHS. I informed the Mental Health team and a doctor wants to see me tomorrow. I said that I was adamant about seeing Doctor Healy, and one of the team told me that they wanted to see what they could do in supporting me through this. I felt so relieved I cried. The 20mg dose is definitely too activating and it sends my nor-adrenaline through the roof all day. This only happens shortly after I take the dose and persists for hours. There are no other physical symptoms really other than a burning in my left arm and below my gut, and it is as if emotionally I am ok behind this, except for this horrible rush in my head. Stress still nails me completely, worse than ever, and the sleep med is now being attacked by my body, as is the melatonin. I was put on the sleep meds for a few weeks (then was put on reduced dose of diazepam for 4 weeks) and then another few weeks, about 3 on the sleep meds.

 

Nobody wants this condition to be true, but I am now taking 3 meds that my system treats as if it is under attack. I am no longer getting any sleep on the sleeping tablet or the melatonin at all. Is a slow taper still advisable when this is the case? I will deffo slow taper the citalopram because this seems to be the main culprit in terms of attacking my system, and want to start by reducing the dosage of this slightly, as this all day adrenaline surges are horrible, and definitely connected to the tablet.

 

Strangely baking soda soothes the adrenaline for a while, which is odd, but it comes back with a vengeance. 

 

Temporary relief in hell to feel one step closer to being seen by someone who will listen and understand my condition.

Update 05/10/14: 11mg fluoxetine, 1.3mg diazepam (slow microtaper of both). Off olanzapine about 6-8 months?

Currently taking: histamine degrading probiotics, a glass of milk kefir mixed with natural yoghurt, flaxseed and slippery elm (split into two doses, one AM & one PM), butyric acid, high dose b vitamins, additional panthenine & a very healthy diet (no grains at all).

 

I believe that the answers to healing are in the gut. God bless you all.

 

 

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  • Administrator

Under the circumstances, you may wish to taper faster, for example, reduce from 20mg citalopram to 15mg.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Thanks Alto. The agitation has not died down all day and is there all the time now. I'm going to have to take the plunge on this. I am so tempted to just take the beta blockers as they wiped this out, but I have to see if a reduction in Citalopram gives me any sort of relief. That would be something else, given where I'm at now. It is just pure noradrenaline in my brain at the moment.

Update 05/10/14: 11mg fluoxetine, 1.3mg diazepam (slow microtaper of both). Off olanzapine about 6-8 months?

Currently taking: histamine degrading probiotics, a glass of milk kefir mixed with natural yoghurt, flaxseed and slippery elm (split into two doses, one AM & one PM), butyric acid, high dose b vitamins, additional panthenine & a very healthy diet (no grains at all).

 

I believe that the answers to healing are in the gut. God bless you all.

 

 

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

Tusk, let me say again, given everything your system has already been through, it is not likely that there is any kind of quick fix that is going to make you feel better right away. I'm not saying this to make you feel bad but actually to encourage you. Things will be crazy and awful for a while, but if you can give your CNS a chance to heal, over time it will eventually settle down and stabilize.

 

Unfortunately that doesn't happen fast.

 

Try a cut in the citalopram and see if that helps at all.  But don't be discouraged if things don't improve as much as you had hoped, or if they only improve temporarily and then seem to get worse again. That's normal for someone who's been through what you have.

 

Please just hang in there and give yourself as much lifestyle type support as you can.  Also, given the pressures you're under right now, I'd again recommend the Whitaker book just so you can arm yourself with information and defend your choices.  The book might be especially helpful to your wife, if she's open to reading it. Also anything by Peter Breggin is probably good.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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Thanks Rhi. I dropped the dose in Citalopram to 15mg from 20mg and the agitation is significantly less today, but I'll be cautious in how I approach this. I actually felt quite sleepy within 20 minutes of taking it with some of the usual, albeit slight intermittent alarm signals, but look too much into these things and think that the gut might be flooding the brain with serotonin due to the change. Don't know if there's any science in that, or if I can just feel the citalopram flooding the gut with serotonin because the agitation has died down. Saying that I had dropped from 40mg to 20mg around two weeks ago (or rather was made to drop) and know I went through the ringer with emotions, dizziness and such then, so I know within 3 or more days this will hit properly. It might not with this comparatively small drop, but that I won't know for sure. I think 3 days on beta blockers too, in this magnified state did  nothing to help the noradrenaline either so I hope this is part of the settling down process.

 

I slept fairly well on the sleeping tablet last night, which I wasn't expecting, but we had been away for 3 days with the kids previously (I barely made it through the 3 days and feel awful for them, but I managed to keep up appearances for the younger ones for the most part and stayed in the room when things got too much - the older kids have had it explained to them that daddy is not well).

 

I would lying if I did not say I was afraid how these next few days will pan out because today feels one of those brief moments that are all too often taken away again. My parents and wife are coming to see the consultant and team with me today at 1pm, and we are going to see what they can do to push for the appointment with Doctor Healy.

Update 05/10/14: 11mg fluoxetine, 1.3mg diazepam (slow microtaper of both). Off olanzapine about 6-8 months?

Currently taking: histamine degrading probiotics, a glass of milk kefir mixed with natural yoghurt, flaxseed and slippery elm (split into two doses, one AM & one PM), butyric acid, high dose b vitamins, additional panthenine & a very healthy diet (no grains at all).

 

I believe that the answers to healing are in the gut. God bless you all.

 

 

Link to post

Spoke too soon. The agitation is coming back and building up. Probably expecting too much, too soon from this. Will let the day go where it goes and see does this die down any. Find the computer screen is making it worse too, so gonna have to sign off for a while.

Update 05/10/14: 11mg fluoxetine, 1.3mg diazepam (slow microtaper of both). Off olanzapine about 6-8 months?

Currently taking: histamine degrading probiotics, a glass of milk kefir mixed with natural yoghurt, flaxseed and slippery elm (split into two doses, one AM & one PM), butyric acid, high dose b vitamins, additional panthenine & a very healthy diet (no grains at all).

 

I believe that the answers to healing are in the gut. God bless you all.

 

 

Link to post

Just realised why I slept so well last night. I had taken a zopiclone the night before, and this is apparently less binding at GABA sites. I hab been taking zolpidem and took one thinking they were the same thing. Not sure, but think I have been on these for a few weeks (?) Crap. 

Update 05/10/14: 11mg fluoxetine, 1.3mg diazepam (slow microtaper of both). Off olanzapine about 6-8 months?

Currently taking: histamine degrading probiotics, a glass of milk kefir mixed with natural yoghurt, flaxseed and slippery elm (split into two doses, one AM & one PM), butyric acid, high dose b vitamins, additional panthenine & a very healthy diet (no grains at all).

 

I believe that the answers to healing are in the gut. God bless you all.

 

 

Link to post

Got it wrong actually. I've been on zopiclone which is the more binding one. Not sure how long either, but think it was probably about 4-5 weeks with a diazepam holiday in between. 

Update 05/10/14: 11mg fluoxetine, 1.3mg diazepam (slow microtaper of both). Off olanzapine about 6-8 months?

Currently taking: histamine degrading probiotics, a glass of milk kefir mixed with natural yoghurt, flaxseed and slippery elm (split into two doses, one AM & one PM), butyric acid, high dose b vitamins, additional panthenine & a very healthy diet (no grains at all).

 

I believe that the answers to healing are in the gut. God bless you all.

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

If you've been taking sleeping pills nightly, then include them in the meds that you need to take consistently at the same doses at the same times for now. I just feel strongly from what you are describing that your CNS needs consistency now. Also, of course, whatever lifestyle support you can provide via diet, low stress, calm environment, gentle walking, etc.

 

My heart goes out to you--I know you're going through he**. Hang in there. It will get better.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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