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Gems- cold turkey and reinstatement of escitalopram


Gems

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Hi there this is my first post on a forum so bear with me...

 

Doc diagnosed me with post-natal depression after birth of my son late 2010. Birth was very traumatic and I lost a lot of blood- thinking now that this was the problem we all should have paid attention to rather than jumping straight to AD. Started on fluoxetine 10mg, increased to 40mg over next few months. I felt like I was totally losing the plot- getting a lot worse. Doc changed me to escitalopram which I remained on for just under 2 years with doses ranging from 10mg to 20mg. Had been stable for a long time so decided to try to taper off with doc, got down 2 5mg in feb this year but had another mini-meltdown in march. Thinking about it now after all posts I have been reading this was probably still withdrawal. At that time I believed withdrawal was just the physical symptoms you get in first couple weeks after decreasing the dose, I had no idea that there were also metal symptoms so thought it was depression surfacing again. Doc increased my dose back up to 10mg and when there was no improvement (infact felt a hell of a lot worse) changed me to venlafaxine in may. I hated the way these made me feel, it was horrible, and after researching AD I decided I didn't want to take any of them. Took the 4 week course the doc prescribed and didn't return for a renewal.

 

Iv been off for a week and a half now cold turkey which I know isn't the best method but I hate being on AD so much that I think I'm hindering any chance of improvement. Iv had all of the horrific physical symptoms- dizziness, nausea, brain zaps, sore achy joints, headaches, sleep disturbances; and have just started into the mental symptoms- anxiety, anger/rage. I am determined to keep myself aware that these are due to the withdrawal and not me losing my mind. I am taking some herbs- avena sativa, rhodiola root, valerian, milk thistle, echinacea, as well as omega 3,6,9 and magnesium. I also have some Siberian ginseng and gingko biloba here but feel like I'm going to start to rattle when I move with all of these supplements.

 

Can anyone tell me if they have tried any of these supplements and if they worked? Also I'd love to hear if anyone has tried acupuncture/reflexology/kinesiology to ease symptoms?

 

I practice yoga and breathing exercises but am really struggling to get the motivation for this atm, hopefully motivation will improve as withdrawal eases?

 

Any hints/tips/advice much appreciated...

Oct10 - Mar11 fluoxetine (increased over this time 10mg-40mg)

Mar11 - Jun11 escitalopram (10mg)

Jun11 - Nov11 escitalopram (20mg)

Nov11- Jan12 escitalopram (15mg)

Jan12 - Feb13 escitalopram (10mg)

Feb13 - May13 escitalopram (5mg)

May13 - Jun13 venlafaxine (75mg)

Cold turkey for 1-2wks in Jun13

End Jun13 back on escitalopram (5mg) to stabilise then start taper...

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Before I realized, for sure, that what was experiencing was withdrawal. (I suspected)

 

I sought the help of a naturopathic doctor. She ordered lots of blood work and did a couple other non traditional tests. 

 

She put me on tons of supplements and herbs. I was, at one point, taking things 4 times a day.

 

A lot of the things she gave me made me feel worse. Turns out that I am sensitive to a lot of things and have to be careful.

 

The only thing I took out of all the supps, that I think helped was liquid fish oil. When I fish oil capsules, they didn't work as well.

 

I blew close to $2000 dollars trying to find things that helped. 

 

I started to see mild improvement when I cut ALL of the supps. Once I cut things out I started to notice windows.

 

At the moment, I do not take anything except the occasional homeopathic remedy, since it seems to be very gentle to my system. (argentum nitricum 30c seems to be the one that works best for me) 

You can get it at health food stores. They are not very costly at around 6-8 dollars

 

I tried acupuncture and like it, but I can't afford to go. Once I can afford it, I may go again. It is very gentle and relaxing for me.

Started Fluoxetine Jan. 2010

Tried to go off of it in Sept. 2010

Weaned too fast and was back on it by Nov. 2010

Didn't work as good the second time around.

Started to wean again in Nov. 2011 and was off for good by April? 2012

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You'll likely be encouraged to go back on the last dose you were on and wean slower since you are experiencing symptoms. That might have been too big of a drop for you. 

Stick around though because there are other posters here that can advise you on how to go forward from here.

 

I weaned the total wrong way when I did.

 

I wish I would have had this site when I decided to wean. I'm sure it would have saved me a ton of pain.

 

Hang in there!

Started Fluoxetine Jan. 2010

Tried to go off of it in Sept. 2010

Weaned too fast and was back on it by Nov. 2010

Didn't work as good the second time around.

Started to wean again in Nov. 2011 and was off for good by April? 2012

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Dunerbug is right--I'm going to recommend that you go back on your former dose of Effexor.  If you think you're feeling bad now, just wait a few months.  For reasons beyond my understanding, Effexor has a way of coming back on people hard when they're five to six months out from a cold turkey.

 

What happens when you take antidepressants is that they make changes in the physical structure of the brain and other areas of the central nervous system.  When you stop the drug abruptly, it's like yanking a crutch away from someone with a broken leg. The structure starts to sag and the CNS struggles valiantly to get back to normal.  This is the source of all that pain, mental and physical, in withdrawal.  The best course of action is to withdraw the drug very slowly and gradually so that the CNS can work its way back to normal with adequate support.  It's gotten used to having that awful drug to lean on, however unnatural that may seem.  Keep in mind that you may also be experiencing withdrawal symptoms from escitalopram.

 

Here is our topic on tapering off Effexor:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/272-tips-for-tapering-off-effexor-and-effexor-xr-venlafaxine/?hl=Effexor

 

I hope that you'll go back on it, stabilize, and then start a sane taper off.  The idea is to be as comfortable and functional as possible while getting off, not to get off as fast as possible.  This is not a race.  If you're really, really, leery of it, go back on half the dose you were taking and give it four to five days to work.  That may or may not alleviate your symtpoms.

 

Most supplements are either worthless or make withdrawal problems even worse.  Save your money. The only things most people find helpful are high quality fish oil and magnesium, although some people seem to react badly to magnesium as well.  You can read about both these supplements in the 'Symptoms and self-care' discussion.

 

When you have a moment, please add the dosages you've been on to your drug history.

 

Welcome to the forum, Gems. You'll find lots of solid information here and friendly, gentle support.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 

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Hi Gems,

 

I echo Jemima's suggestion - you will do yourself a favor by reinstating and stabilizing on the last AD you were on and then doing a slow taper from there. Effexor withdrawal can be nasty and you have already experienced some serious withdrawal symptoms.

 

Many find that high doses of fish oil (I use krill oil at 1500 mg AM and PM) and magnesium to bowel tolerance helps.  The problem is that when you go cold turkey off of an AD your system becomes unstable and we find that it often results in hypersensitivity to supplements.  If you are taking a normal dose of your omegas then you can slowly try and increase them to see if that provides some relief.  Some of the supplements you mention may be over-stimulating and others may have a pardoxical reaction, that is it may have the opposite effect of what you expect.

 

Personally, I find that if I only make one change at a time and monitor how that makes me feel, then try something else I am better able to tell what is helping and what is causing symptoms.  Here is a link to information on monitoring your symptoms: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1779-rate-symptoms-daily-to-catch-withdrawal-early/

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Karma

2007 @ 375 mg Effexor - 11/29/2011 - 43.75 mg Effexor (regular) & .625 mg Xanax

200 mg Gabapentin 2/27/21 - 194.5 mg, 5/28/21 - 183 mg, 8/2/21 - 170 mg, 11/28/21 - 150 mg, 4/19/22 - 122 mg; 8//7/22 - 100 mg
Xanax taper: 3/11/12 - 0.9375 mg, 3/25/12 - 0.875 mg, 4/6/12 - 0.8125 mg, 4/18/12 - 0.75 mg; 1/16 0.6875 mg; at some point 0.625 mg
Effexor taper: 1/29/12 - 40.625 mg, 4/29/12 - 39.875 mg, 5/11/12 - Switched to liquid Effexor, 5/25/12 - 38 mg, 7/6/12 - 35 mg, 8/17/12 - 32 mg, 9/14/12 - 30 mg, 10/19/12 - 28 mg, 11/9/12 - 26 mg, 11/30/12 - 24 mg, 01/14/13 - 22 mg. 02/25/13 - 20.8 mg, 03/18/13 - 19.2 mg, 4/15/13 - 17.6 mg, 8/10/13 - 16.4 mg, 9/7/13 - 15.2 mg, 10/19/13 - 14 mg, 1/15/14 - 13.2 mg, 3/1/2014 - 12.6 mg, 5/4/14 - 12 mg, 8/1/14 - 11.4 mg, 8/29/14 - 10.8 mg; 10/14/14 - 10.2 mg; 12/15/14 - 10 mg, 1/11/15 - 9.5 mg, 2/8/15 - 9 mg, 3/21/15 - 8.5 mg, 5/1/15 - 8 mg, 6/9/15 - 7.5 mg, 7/8/15 - 7 mg, 8/22/15 - 6.5 mg, 10/4/15 - 6 mg; 1/1/16 - 5.6 mg; 2/6/16 - 5.2 mg; 4/9 - 4.8 mg; 7/7 4.5 mg; 10/7 4.25 mg; 11/4 4.0 mg; 11/25 3.8 mg; 4/24 3.6 mg; 5/27 3.4 mg; 7/8 3.2 mg ... 10/18 2.8 mg; 1/18 2.6 mg; 4/7 2.4 mg; 5/26 2.15mg; 8/18 1.85 mg; 10/7 1.7 mg; 12/1 1.45 mg; 3/2 1.2 mg; 5/4 0.90 mg; 6/1 0.80 mg; 6/22 0.65 mg; 08/03 0.50 mg, 08/10 0.45 mg, 10/05 0.325 mg, 11/23 0.2 mg, 12/14 0.15 mg, 12/21 0.125 mg, 02/28 0.03125 mg, 2/15 0.015625 mg, 2/29/20 0.00 mg - OFF Effexor


I am not a medical professional - this is not medical advice. My suggestions are based on personal experience, reading, observation and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers

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Guys thanks so much for taking the time to reply, really appreciate your advice. I am going to see gp this morning- first time seeing them since I've stopped my meds. Not looking forward to the lecture I know is coming my way! Wish me luck!

 

Find it so frustrating that any of the gps I have seen throughout my time on meds have absolutely no idea about tapering/discontinuation syndrome/impact of taking ADs- infact I have been told that there is no reason why I shouldn't keep taking them for the rest of my life! Really??? Think anyone being prescribed ADs should be pointed in the direction of these forums to hear others experiences...

 

I do know you are right that I shouldn't have stopped cold turkey- the thought of having to spend longer tapering of these than I have been actually taking them is horrendous. I was only taking them for 4 weeks but I suppose I still have the affects of the cipralex (escitalopram) in my system 2 after being on them for 2 and a half years...

 

I just can't wait for the day when I can feel like me, be able to enjoy my time with my amazing 3 year old, as well as be able to enjoy and communicate normally with my partner again... I have had glimpses of this through this last week or so and it makes me more determined that I want my life back!

 

I will probably get the 37.5mg dose from my doc and look into the bead counting tapering methods that have been successful with the most minimal withdrawal symptoms. Maybe should rethink the supplements too- possibly just stick with normal dosage of omegas and some magnesium (or much loved Epsom salt baths). Just wish I had found this forum a long time ago- save a lot of suffering (as well as the £60 I've just spent on my partners credit card for all the supplements- oops).

 

All I want is the reassurance that if I do this the right way I will get through this and have a better quality of life... I'm 30 now and just want more than anything to be a good mum, better partner, and be successful at work!

Oct10 - Mar11 fluoxetine (increased over this time 10mg-40mg)

Mar11 - Jun11 escitalopram (10mg)

Jun11 - Nov11 escitalopram (20mg)

Nov11- Jan12 escitalopram (15mg)

Jan12 - Feb13 escitalopram (10mg)

Feb13 - May13 escitalopram (5mg)

May13 - Jun13 venlafaxine (75mg)

Cold turkey for 1-2wks in Jun13

End Jun13 back on escitalopram (5mg) to stabilise then start taper...

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  • Moderator Emeritus

 

 

I have had glimpses of this through this last week or so and it makes me more determined that I want my life back!

 

These "glimpses" become more common and last longer as you recover.  You will absolutely get through this!

3 Years 150 mgs Effexor

2 month taper down to zero

3 terrible weeks at zero

Back up to 75 mgs

2 months at 75

6 or so months back to regular dose of 150 - was able to restabilize fine.

3 month taper back to zero

1 HORRENDOUS week at zero

2 days back up to 37.5

3 days back up to 75

One week at 150 - unable to stabilize.

Back down to 75 mgs

At 75 mgs (half original dose) and suffering withdrawal symptoms since October 2012.

 

"It is a radical cure for all pessimism to become ill, to remain ill for a good while, and then grow well for a still longer period." - Nietzsche

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"These "glimpses" become more common and last longer as you recover. You will absolutely get through this!"

 

Thanks narcissus! I really, really hope so!

 

Do you think this is possible while back on meds, tapering? Or is this something that only happens much further down the line after being totally free of the meds?

Oct10 - Mar11 fluoxetine (increased over this time 10mg-40mg)

Mar11 - Jun11 escitalopram (10mg)

Jun11 - Nov11 escitalopram (20mg)

Nov11- Jan12 escitalopram (15mg)

Jan12 - Feb13 escitalopram (10mg)

Feb13 - May13 escitalopram (5mg)

May13 - Jun13 venlafaxine (75mg)

Cold turkey for 1-2wks in Jun13

End Jun13 back on escitalopram (5mg) to stabilise then start taper...

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Hi again!

 

Right I have now spoke to a GP and got my 5mg/day dose of cipralex reinstated. I figured this agreed with me slightly better than the venlafaxine... Am planning on keeping to this dose 4 about 4 weeks to stabilise again then tapering- does this sound like a reasonable plan?

 

GP seemed to be of opinion that whatever I wanted to do was ok. Did suggest that I could increase venlafaxine or cipralex if I wanted to but I definitely do not want to increase the dose of either so I suggested just the 5mg cipralex.

 

I've been off work on long-term sick since start of march (last melt-down) but I'm planning to return on 8th July- can anyone tell me if they think i will be able to function again by then?

Oct10 - Mar11 fluoxetine (increased over this time 10mg-40mg)

Mar11 - Jun11 escitalopram (10mg)

Jun11 - Nov11 escitalopram (20mg)

Nov11- Jan12 escitalopram (15mg)

Jan12 - Feb13 escitalopram (10mg)

Feb13 - May13 escitalopram (5mg)

May13 - Jun13 venlafaxine (75mg)

Cold turkey for 1-2wks in Jun13

End Jun13 back on escitalopram (5mg) to stabilise then start taper...

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Nobody can really tell you when exactly you'll feel better. Just know that healing will come, even if it is slow.

 

I find this all to be much harder when putting time frames on myself.

 

I work on taking it day by day.

 

Hang in there and post for support.

Started Fluoxetine Jan. 2010

Tried to go off of it in Sept. 2010

Weaned too fast and was back on it by Nov. 2010

Didn't work as good the second time around.

Started to wean again in Nov. 2011 and was off for good by April? 2012

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Thanks for this dunerbug- I think you are right, prob best not to put even more pressure on ourselves when like this... I find myself getting panicky when I think along the lines of 'right no matter what I need to be sorted by...(date/time)'.

 

Sounds like you have been through a lot with this- thanks so much for taking the time to reply to me, really don't know what I would have done if I hadn't found this forum and I am so grateful for all of you sharing your experiences for inspiration!

 

I took my first 5mg tab of cipralex at lunchtime and feel like the withdrawal has mellowed a bit already yey! Will update with my progress- thanks so much for the support!!!

Oct10 - Mar11 fluoxetine (increased over this time 10mg-40mg)

Mar11 - Jun11 escitalopram (10mg)

Jun11 - Nov11 escitalopram (20mg)

Nov11- Jan12 escitalopram (15mg)

Jan12 - Feb13 escitalopram (10mg)

Feb13 - May13 escitalopram (5mg)

May13 - Jun13 venlafaxine (75mg)

Cold turkey for 1-2wks in Jun13

End Jun13 back on escitalopram (5mg) to stabilise then start taper...

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Hi Gems

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

I'll be interested to see how you get on with the 5mg Cit, which seems to be some weeks after you were on 20mg. I'm still experiencing w/d symptoms 6 weeks after going from 40 to 0 (6 weeks ago) and back up to 20mg (3 weeks ago). About time scales for life/work changes, I live day by day, very tired, but managing to keep my freelance work going with no-one guessing (I hope) that I'm not at my best. July 8th seems very soon with what you describe...

 

I do remember being a mother of a young one (or three) and that does make one get up and go alot more!! I've found being active helps me, so I hope it helps you to dash around after your son, now 2 1/2 with lots of energy and running very fast?

Started citalopram May 12, from 10 to 40 mg/d over 2 months

 

Wanted to come off in May 13 and did it too quickly: decrease from 40 to 0 mg/d over 2 weeks; WD from then onwards, increasing in intensity to be unbearable at 4 weeks later;  reinstated 10 mg/d for 2 days (WD severity halved); reinstated 20 mg/d (initial WD symptoms decreased but not gone entirely until after 8 weeks)

 

Started 5--7% taper: Aug 13: 19 mg/d, mild WD on day 3; thereafter none notable; Nov 13: 18 mg/d, no WD; Dec 13: 17 mg/day, no WD for 3 weeks, then (at Christmas) tearfulness; Jan 14: 16.7 mg/d, Apr 14: 15.7 mg/d, Jun 14: 14.5 mg/d; Jul 14: 13.5 mg/d (6.9% reduction), Aug 14: 12.5 mg/d (7.4% reduction)

 

Sharing experience makes a difference

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Thanks Katie! Fingers crossed this works!

 

I haven't been on 20mg of cipralex for a long time now- think it was possibly towards end of 2011. I was reduced to 15mg then reduced again to 10mg and stayed at that dose until jan/feb this year then reduced again to 5mg for a few mths until end of may when I was switched to 75mg of venlafaxine for 4 weeks then I stopped taking meds. I really hated the way venlafaxine made me feel but wasn't too bad on cipralex so that's why I decided to go back onto the 5mg dose of cipralex.

 

Actually looking forward to getting back to work I think- give me something to focus on during the day and I love my job and the people I work with. I know what you mean about living day-to-day though, I find it hard to make any plans- can't even tell if i will be feeling up to leaving house at all tomorrow never mind what shape I will be in by 8th July...

 

Yes my son definitely helps me- can't just take myself off to bed for days (as much as I feel like that's all I want to do) when I have him to look after! He will be 3 in August so he's a real handful atm but I wouldn't change him for the world! He is still in daycare full-time because I kept telling myself when I first went off work that I would be back in a few days and didn't want to upset his routine- cant believe I've been off this long! Also don't want my moods to rub off on him. Worst worry about all of this is what sort of an impact is it having on him?

Oct10 - Mar11 fluoxetine (increased over this time 10mg-40mg)

Mar11 - Jun11 escitalopram (10mg)

Jun11 - Nov11 escitalopram (20mg)

Nov11- Jan12 escitalopram (15mg)

Jan12 - Feb13 escitalopram (10mg)

Feb13 - May13 escitalopram (5mg)

May13 - Jun13 venlafaxine (75mg)

Cold turkey for 1-2wks in Jun13

End Jun13 back on escitalopram (5mg) to stabilise then start taper...

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Updated signature to give more detail on doses etc over time...

Oct10 - Mar11 fluoxetine (increased over this time 10mg-40mg)

Mar11 - Jun11 escitalopram (10mg)

Jun11 - Nov11 escitalopram (20mg)

Nov11- Jan12 escitalopram (15mg)

Jan12 - Feb13 escitalopram (10mg)

Feb13 - May13 escitalopram (5mg)

May13 - Jun13 venlafaxine (75mg)

Cold turkey for 1-2wks in Jun13

End Jun13 back on escitalopram (5mg) to stabilise then start taper...

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Hi Gems

 

Work has helped me, but I'm only about 1 month into bad experience with w/d and also I'm the sole earner in the HHold and a freelance worker so don't want to let down my clients I've built regular business with over the last 8 years. Sounds crazy but I need the money and I want them to want me first and foremost. That's been a big driver to me.Thank goodness I'm through my first period on w/d symptoms, many have alleviated after coming on. I just need to watch my carb intake (avoiding the insulin kickback), or else I'll be back to the 5-hour days of a fortnight ago, which are just insupportable...

 

Gems, it's when a parent is NOT worrying about the impact they have on their kids that they should be worrying... it's should be quite simple, think of the child...Which, hey, I can tell you do! You get out of bed for your 3 year old! What time does he wake up?... Well done you! Gosh, I didn't bounce up much before 7 am (often later, you understand?). And my mum would be in bed for days .. and that's not nice for a 5 year old. You're doing OK!

 

This forum is so good, lots of experiences to read and consider! Keep in touch!

Started citalopram May 12, from 10 to 40 mg/d over 2 months

 

Wanted to come off in May 13 and did it too quickly: decrease from 40 to 0 mg/d over 2 weeks; WD from then onwards, increasing in intensity to be unbearable at 4 weeks later;  reinstated 10 mg/d for 2 days (WD severity halved); reinstated 20 mg/d (initial WD symptoms decreased but not gone entirely until after 8 weeks)

 

Started 5--7% taper: Aug 13: 19 mg/d, mild WD on day 3; thereafter none notable; Nov 13: 18 mg/d, no WD; Dec 13: 17 mg/day, no WD for 3 weeks, then (at Christmas) tearfulness; Jan 14: 16.7 mg/d, Apr 14: 15.7 mg/d, Jun 14: 14.5 mg/d; Jul 14: 13.5 mg/d (6.9% reduction), Aug 14: 12.5 mg/d (7.4% reduction)

 

Sharing experience makes a difference

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  • Moderator Emeritus

"These "glimpses" become more common and last longer as you recover. You will absolutely get through this!"Thanks narcissus! I really, really hope so!Do you think this is possible while back on meds, tapering? Or is this something that only happens much further down the line after being totally free of the meds?

 

For me it's happened while still tapering, but only once I got down to pretty low doses, and also only on a very slow, stable taper. 

 

I really think you can do this, but you need to be cautious.  We have all seen so many, many people who try to rush it, and end up in terrible suffering, and then end up on more drugs than they were on to begin with, and then end up going on and off various drugs, and generally taking more time to get off meds than they would have if they had just done a decent taper to begin with, plus suffering the whole time.  It's really better to take your time and do it safely, believe me.  

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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...

 

Iv been off for a week and a half now cold turkey which I know isn't the best method but I hate being on AD so much that I think I'm hindering any chance of improvement. Iv had all of the horrific physical symptoms- dizziness, nausea, brain zaps, sore achy joints, headaches, sleep disturbances; and have just started into the mental symptoms- anxiety, anger/rage. I am determined to keep myself aware that these are due to the withdrawal and not me losing my mind. I am taking some herbs- avena sativa, rhodiola root, valerian, milk thistle, echinacea, as well as omega 3,6,9 and magnesium. I also have some Siberian ginseng and gingko biloba here but feel like I'm going to start to rattle when I move with all of these supplements.Can anyone tell me if they have tried any of these supplements and if they worked? ...

 

 

First of all, the symptoms you list are extremely common withdrawal symptoms. Every one of them. If you didn't have them prior to withdrawal, you can be quite sure they're withdrawal and you're certainly not losing your mind!

 

I would suggest you stop taking the supplements for now since you're reinstating. Don't throw them away - you may want to use some of them later. Especially the omegas and magnesium, which many people find very helpful in withdrawal.

 

I'm suggesting stopping all of them now because although the omegas and magnesium are not only tolerated but help reduce withdrawal symptoms in many people, at least at certain stages of withdrawal, some of us find they intensify withdrawal symptoms instead, and personally I think it would be better to wait and reintroduce things like magnesium and omegas gradually and individually so you can tell what is doing what.

 

But even if you're tolerating the other herbs and supplements now, some of them are likely to affect the metabolism of the reinstated escitalopram, which could not only cause problems once back on the med, but also cause confusion about the amount of med your body is actually utilizing and thus how to accurately determine your best taper rate.

Edited by Brandy

I was "TryingToGetWell" (aka TTGW) on paxilprogress. I also was one of the original members here on Surviving Antidepressants

 

I had horrific and protracted withdrawal from paxil, but now am back to enjoying life with enthusiasm to the max, some residual physical symptoms continued but largely improve. The horror, severe derealization, anhedonia, akathisia, and so much more, are long over.

 

My signature is a temporary scribble from year 2013. I'll rewrite it when I can.

 

If you want to read it, click on http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/209-brandy-anyone/?p=110343

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I really appreciate all the advice and support here- before I found this site I really felt very alone through this. I have people around me but I don't want to burden them and even when I do try to talk to them i don't think they really understand... So thanks so much for sharing your experiences and advice!

 

I have been back on the 5mg of cipralex for 4 days now and the physical symptoms associated with withdrawal have subsided. I plan on staying at this dose for at least 4 weeks, see how I am feeling then start tapering by 10% every 4 weeks after that if I can (hoping that my GP will be able to prescribe the liquid version when I return). I was so determined to go cold turkey, I had no idea of the long-term damage that could have caused before I found this site! But now I realise the best way is to go slow and pay attention to how I feel after each taper, and that if my body is telling me to go even slower this is what I have to do... I am hoping that as long as I do this the right way I will get of these meds, I know I may never get back to the pre-medicated 'me' but anything has got to be better to the zombified, numb reck I have been for the last couple of years...

Oct10 - Mar11 fluoxetine (increased over this time 10mg-40mg)

Mar11 - Jun11 escitalopram (10mg)

Jun11 - Nov11 escitalopram (20mg)

Nov11- Jan12 escitalopram (15mg)

Jan12 - Feb13 escitalopram (10mg)

Feb13 - May13 escitalopram (5mg)

May13 - Jun13 venlafaxine (75mg)

Cold turkey for 1-2wks in Jun13

End Jun13 back on escitalopram (5mg) to stabilise then start taper...

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Thanks brandy I have stopped all of the supplements since going back on AD- I thought it was strange that as soon as stopped taking them the withdrawal symptoms eased... I'm guessing I have been super-sensitised since the meds. I will stay off them for now and maybe restart the omegas and magnesium at a lower dose before I start tapering the AD?

Oct10 - Mar11 fluoxetine (increased over this time 10mg-40mg)

Mar11 - Jun11 escitalopram (10mg)

Jun11 - Nov11 escitalopram (20mg)

Nov11- Jan12 escitalopram (15mg)

Jan12 - Feb13 escitalopram (10mg)

Feb13 - May13 escitalopram (5mg)

May13 - Jun13 venlafaxine (75mg)

Cold turkey for 1-2wks in Jun13

End Jun13 back on escitalopram (5mg) to stabilise then start taper...

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Any idea how to change the name of this topic? It isn't really accurate anymore as I have now reinstated the escitalopram...

Oct10 - Mar11 fluoxetine (increased over this time 10mg-40mg)

Mar11 - Jun11 escitalopram (10mg)

Jun11 - Nov11 escitalopram (20mg)

Nov11- Jan12 escitalopram (15mg)

Jan12 - Feb13 escitalopram (10mg)

Feb13 - May13 escitalopram (5mg)

May13 - Jun13 venlafaxine (75mg)

Cold turkey for 1-2wks in Jun13

End Jun13 back on escitalopram (5mg) to stabilise then start taper...

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  • Administrator

Done!

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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While I am in researching mode, has anyone got any advice or know where to get reliable information on how long after finishing AD you should wait before trying to conceive?

 

I just watched a programme here in the uk about birth defects caused by taking AD during pregnancy but it didn't look at those who stopped their meds before falling pregnant.

 

We are hoping to maybe have another child once my son starts pre-school/primary school so in the next 2 years or so...

Oct10 - Mar11 fluoxetine (increased over this time 10mg-40mg)

Mar11 - Jun11 escitalopram (10mg)

Jun11 - Nov11 escitalopram (20mg)

Nov11- Jan12 escitalopram (15mg)

Jan12 - Feb13 escitalopram (10mg)

Feb13 - May13 escitalopram (5mg)

May13 - Jun13 venlafaxine (75mg)

Cold turkey for 1-2wks in Jun13

End Jun13 back on escitalopram (5mg) to stabilise then start taper...

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Gosh Gems, I dunno! What about searching on PubMed or Google Scholar for the name of the researchers that the programme used? Or just hunting through 'the web' until you come up with someone who may know ...

 

The only other thing that comes to my mind is the anedoctal evidence (i.e old wives' tale) that a pregnant woman should not be upset. Probably doesn't help ... :(

Started citalopram May 12, from 10 to 40 mg/d over 2 months

 

Wanted to come off in May 13 and did it too quickly: decrease from 40 to 0 mg/d over 2 weeks; WD from then onwards, increasing in intensity to be unbearable at 4 weeks later;  reinstated 10 mg/d for 2 days (WD severity halved); reinstated 20 mg/d (initial WD symptoms decreased but not gone entirely until after 8 weeks)

 

Started 5--7% taper: Aug 13: 19 mg/d, mild WD on day 3; thereafter none notable; Nov 13: 18 mg/d, no WD; Dec 13: 17 mg/day, no WD for 3 weeks, then (at Christmas) tearfulness; Jan 14: 16.7 mg/d, Apr 14: 15.7 mg/d, Jun 14: 14.5 mg/d; Jul 14: 13.5 mg/d (6.9% reduction), Aug 14: 12.5 mg/d (7.4% reduction)

 

Sharing experience makes a difference

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  • Administrator

You might ask your gynecologist. I believe the studies show danger to the fetus when the mother takes the drug in its developing stages. I would think that a month or two off the drug would eliminate this risk.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Thanks Katie & Alto- I will keep hunting (don't have gynaecologist only gp & don't really trust what they say about these meds...). Hopefully will b long off the meds well in advance of coming off the pill!

 

Iv been keeping at the 5mg cipralex since 25th June, started back at work this week although only doing few days a week for the next 4 weeks to ease me back into it. Physically I've been feeling ok, sleep hasn't been too bad (do feel tired a lot though), no more nausea or random pains in joints. Mentally I really don't know- some days I feel pretty stable other days feel like I just want to crawl into a hole.

 

I've been really irritable this week, slightest thing really annoys me. But period due so hoping that's all it is... Getting really f***ed off at myself for letting stupid things annoy me so much and then feel so guilty for snapping at people. Need a sign around my neck telling people to stay away and not look in my direction... Or a place to go and be alone...

Oct10 - Mar11 fluoxetine (increased over this time 10mg-40mg)

Mar11 - Jun11 escitalopram (10mg)

Jun11 - Nov11 escitalopram (20mg)

Nov11- Jan12 escitalopram (15mg)

Jan12 - Feb13 escitalopram (10mg)

Feb13 - May13 escitalopram (5mg)

May13 - Jun13 venlafaxine (75mg)

Cold turkey for 1-2wks in Jun13

End Jun13 back on escitalopram (5mg) to stabilise then start taper...

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Awww, Gems! take it easy on yourself. yeah, you won't want to give grief to others but from what you've written you're on a rollercoaster -- the meds, the job, the procreation, The Period, huh have I missed anything?.... My first period during wd was really hard. I've yet to have my second ....

 

And I'm so glad you've got back onto a bit of Cit (those wds, to me, are really scary, esp when in some people they carry on for a very long time). It seems like you are functioning in your job, huh even as you go back to it after however long it is? I hope you are feeling a big boost from that. And enjoying your post?

 

You're in the UK, so have you seen mammaP's post on getting liquid Cit? And mine will follow in a month or two ... my post that is, success is never certain :(

 

Good to hear from you, I was wondering how things were going with you. Hug x

Started citalopram May 12, from 10 to 40 mg/d over 2 months

 

Wanted to come off in May 13 and did it too quickly: decrease from 40 to 0 mg/d over 2 weeks; WD from then onwards, increasing in intensity to be unbearable at 4 weeks later;  reinstated 10 mg/d for 2 days (WD severity halved); reinstated 20 mg/d (initial WD symptoms decreased but not gone entirely until after 8 weeks)

 

Started 5--7% taper: Aug 13: 19 mg/d, mild WD on day 3; thereafter none notable; Nov 13: 18 mg/d, no WD; Dec 13: 17 mg/day, no WD for 3 weeks, then (at Christmas) tearfulness; Jan 14: 16.7 mg/d, Apr 14: 15.7 mg/d, Jun 14: 14.5 mg/d; Jul 14: 13.5 mg/d (6.9% reduction), Aug 14: 12.5 mg/d (7.4% reduction)

 

Sharing experience makes a difference

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Just another hello, and "courage!", hang in there. Being irritable is so normal, we've all been there. Just don't actually kill anyone and it will pass. Eventually.

 

:-)

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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Thanks for checking in Katie- how are you doing? The tiredness is a nightmare but at least it seems to be easing up a bit for you? I read your intro and see you started taking AD in anticipation for stopping smoking? Are you still off the cigs? I've been smoking since I was 13- up to 20 a day and have switched to roll-ups few months ago due to cost. I hate them! I've tried everything to stop- even tried zyban about 10 years ago and it just made me crazy! Apparently they don't prescribe it for stopping smoking anymore as there is a high risk of suicide... Scary... I did notice though when I had (naively) gone cold turkey a few weeks ago they really turned my stomach and I didn't want to smoke as much but being stable back on cipralex I'm right back to being the chain smoker I've always been...

 

Thanks yea I will defo check out all the info I can on the liquid version- I'm back at the docs on Tuesday so I plan on discussing my taper plan and asking for the liquid then. This same doc I'm going to see had originally told me, back at the start of the year, that I could reduce my 10mg to 5mg straight away then just take 5mg for next few weeks then just stop completely!!! Hoping he doesn't just dismiss my concerns or right me off as being paranoid when I try to explain this all to him at this appt.

 

It actually feels really good being back at work (after just over 4 months off)- I enjoy the work I do (producing statistics and bit of research) and I have missed the craic with my colleagues. My manager is great so there's no issues with me easing back into it and I can chat to them about what's going on too. Looking forward to getting stuck back in properly as my work does give me a bit of a confidence boost. How are you getting on with your work?

 

How are things with your husband and kids now?

 

Hugs back at ya! X

Oct10 - Mar11 fluoxetine (increased over this time 10mg-40mg)

Mar11 - Jun11 escitalopram (10mg)

Jun11 - Nov11 escitalopram (20mg)

Nov11- Jan12 escitalopram (15mg)

Jan12 - Feb13 escitalopram (10mg)

Feb13 - May13 escitalopram (5mg)

May13 - Jun13 venlafaxine (75mg)

Cold turkey for 1-2wks in Jun13

End Jun13 back on escitalopram (5mg) to stabilise then start taper...

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Just another hello, and "courage!", hang in there. Being irritable is so normal, we've all been there. Just don't actually kill anyone and it will pass. Eventually. :-)

Thanks for this Rhi! Made me laugh- not quite homicidal yet lol!!! I know I keep telling myself it will pass but I'm also a bit scared it will get worse as I try to come off these meds... Just feel sorry for anyone on the receiving end of my moods- I tell my partner not to take it personally but don't think he really gets it...Thanks again for the support! X

Oct10 - Mar11 fluoxetine (increased over this time 10mg-40mg)

Mar11 - Jun11 escitalopram (10mg)

Jun11 - Nov11 escitalopram (20mg)

Nov11- Jan12 escitalopram (15mg)

Jan12 - Feb13 escitalopram (10mg)

Feb13 - May13 escitalopram (5mg)

May13 - Jun13 venlafaxine (75mg)

Cold turkey for 1-2wks in Jun13

End Jun13 back on escitalopram (5mg) to stabilise then start taper...

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hope your appointment goes well today Gems and you get the liquid. Let us know how you get on. We're rooting for you  :)

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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Thanks mammap! So great 2 know I have support here- means a lot!

 

I checked with my local Boots yesterday and the pharmacist said they don't have liquid in stock but there would be no problem at all ordering it in for me! So pleased! They can get either 10mg/ml or 20mg/ml. Just have doc to contend with now...

Oct10 - Mar11 fluoxetine (increased over this time 10mg-40mg)

Mar11 - Jun11 escitalopram (10mg)

Jun11 - Nov11 escitalopram (20mg)

Nov11- Jan12 escitalopram (15mg)

Jan12 - Feb13 escitalopram (10mg)

Feb13 - May13 escitalopram (5mg)

May13 - Jun13 venlafaxine (75mg)

Cold turkey for 1-2wks in Jun13

End Jun13 back on escitalopram (5mg) to stabilise then start taper...

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Ok so I'm just home from seeing gp... & got a big fat no to my request for the liquid version!!!! Ahhhhhh so annoyed!!!! Was told that they r too expensive (we get prescriptions free here btw), it would be too much hassle as could only decrease by drops rather than volume, and there are absolutely no issues with trying to come off cipralex!!!!!! I told him I had had horrible symptoms trying to come off these before and when reducing dosage but apparently I must be imagining it... Or don't know my own body maybe?!

 

He told me to just cut my tablets in half or quarters if I want and I shouldn't have any problems stopping... The tablets are tiny and I don't have a pill-cutter so don't know what to do next... Is it easy enough to make a liquid from these tablets?

 

I am so disheartened by this- I had a plan in my head and now I can't do that I am super-frustrated and really angry... I didn't cry though so I suppose that's something...

Oct10 - Mar11 fluoxetine (increased over this time 10mg-40mg)

Mar11 - Jun11 escitalopram (10mg)

Jun11 - Nov11 escitalopram (20mg)

Nov11- Jan12 escitalopram (15mg)

Jan12 - Feb13 escitalopram (10mg)

Feb13 - May13 escitalopram (5mg)

May13 - Jun13 venlafaxine (75mg)

Cold turkey for 1-2wks in Jun13

End Jun13 back on escitalopram (5mg) to stabilise then start taper...

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  • Moderator Emeritus

I continue to be amazed by the arrogance of doctors.  It is what it is, Gems, try not to let it upset you too much.

 

I don't have any experience with making liquids, but this thread details the process:http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2693-how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules/ 

3 Years 150 mgs Effexor

2 month taper down to zero

3 terrible weeks at zero

Back up to 75 mgs

2 months at 75

6 or so months back to regular dose of 150 - was able to restabilize fine.

3 month taper back to zero

1 HORRENDOUS week at zero

2 days back up to 37.5

3 days back up to 75

One week at 150 - unable to stabilize.

Back down to 75 mgs

At 75 mgs (half original dose) and suffering withdrawal symptoms since October 2012.

 

"It is a radical cure for all pessimism to become ill, to remain ill for a good while, and then grow well for a still longer period." - Nietzsche

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Oh Gems I'm so sorry it went badly,  :angry:

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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Thanks guys- I am a bit gutted but I'm not surprised, sorta half expected this... But at same time this was the lead gp from the surgery so I did expect him to have more knowledge or maybe listen to what I was trying to say about what I've been through in the past but he just kinda looked at me weird and was like really- cipralex is not known to be difficult to come off... Then he asked if this was coming from me or from someone else- I told him it was my decision cus I'd felt so awful anytime I'd tried before... Am I being paranoid??? I feel like anyone I try to explain this to thinks I'm losing it and I'm just rambling because of what I've read online... No-one seems to get it unless they've been there, this is why I'm sooooo glad I've found this site...

 

I've started reading 'anatomy of an epidemic'... Wow!!! Can't believe there are all of these studies which indicate that antidepressants result in worse outcomes long-term and that the 'un-medicated' show best results long-term and they are still being handed out like sweets!!!! Makes me so angry!!! I really thought that docs would rely on evidence-based approaches considering our lives are in their hands... I don't get it, but sometimes I still wonder if I'm being paranoid and reading too much into things...

 

Ugh sorry for rambling, head goes into overdrive sometimes and no one else to rant to...

 

I have read up on making my own liquid from the tabs, thank you for the info btw, and am hoping it won't be too difficult to get it working for me...

Oct10 - Mar11 fluoxetine (increased over this time 10mg-40mg)

Mar11 - Jun11 escitalopram (10mg)

Jun11 - Nov11 escitalopram (20mg)

Nov11- Jan12 escitalopram (15mg)

Jan12 - Feb13 escitalopram (10mg)

Feb13 - May13 escitalopram (5mg)

May13 - Jun13 venlafaxine (75mg)

Cold turkey for 1-2wks in Jun13

End Jun13 back on escitalopram (5mg) to stabilise then start taper...

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Gems, I'm so sad to hear your news. I think we all get very angry at the medics from time to time. I do wonder what it is like to be a GP day to day.

 

My GP has also said that Citalopram is "not as bad as the other SSRIs", like maybe I could decide not to go the liquid route... AS I have said, the anticipated battle is yet to come ....

 

The cost issue I did not know... How much more expensive? What about for 5 mg a day and reducing?, like the 20mg/ml would have to be diluted to be able to measure (10% taper) 5, 4.5, 4.05, ... mg/ml. So is it really more than 4-times as expensive? (ha,not that that being exactly the same cost counts...)

 

You know, today's is not the end of the story, you will live to tell another tale, to fight another battle, etc., etc. I'd say (remember I'm not a medic or expert; note to self to put this on my signature...) I'd say, keep going to your GP, over the next months give the same request, give each other time to think and discuss and understand so that you will be better together for whatever happens in the future. Or else if you can crush and suspend confidently, that's another option ...

 

I'm on 20 mg citalopram a day, and I feel vulnerable: I have to take this drug every day, just because I've been on the drug for a year, not for any chronic condition. So do do do keep on wanting to come off ..., however diplomatic you need to be.

 

Smiles and hugs x

Started citalopram May 12, from 10 to 40 mg/d over 2 months

 

Wanted to come off in May 13 and did it too quickly: decrease from 40 to 0 mg/d over 2 weeks; WD from then onwards, increasing in intensity to be unbearable at 4 weeks later;  reinstated 10 mg/d for 2 days (WD severity halved); reinstated 20 mg/d (initial WD symptoms decreased but not gone entirely until after 8 weeks)

 

Started 5--7% taper: Aug 13: 19 mg/d, mild WD on day 3; thereafter none notable; Nov 13: 18 mg/d, no WD; Dec 13: 17 mg/day, no WD for 3 weeks, then (at Christmas) tearfulness; Jan 14: 16.7 mg/d, Apr 14: 15.7 mg/d, Jun 14: 14.5 mg/d; Jul 14: 13.5 mg/d (6.9% reduction), Aug 14: 12.5 mg/d (7.4% reduction)

 

Sharing experience makes a difference

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