DrugSlave: tapering Effexor

[baroquep]

Just noticed that your withdrawal history signature is out-of-date and wonder if you could take a moment to update it ... best of luck with your upcoming taper.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature (don't forget to press save in the bottom right corner)

[DrugSlave]

baroquep, thanks for the emails. Actually, I did update my signature. I haven't started the taper yet. The pharmacy just called me tonight. I will start the taper tomorrow and update my signature. My doctor is letting the pharmacist and I determine the doses. The pharmacist doesn't even need to get the doctor to sign off. They are drawing up an agreement, faxing it to the doctor and he said he will sign. Good luck with your taper baroquep. I see that you are on 35.6 mg of Effexor. I will be starting on 36.6mg of Effexor tomorrow. Wanna have a race to see who can get off it first? Just kidding

 

On 10/31/2017 at 5:28 PM, ChessieCat said:

 

It depends on whether they are prescribing psychiatric drugs like candy

 

 

I didn't think of that. Scary that these dangerous pills are given out to kids so frequently. Good advice with the documentation.

 

thanks for all the comments

[ChessieCat]

25 minutes ago, DrugSlave said:

My doctor is letting the pharmacist and I determine the doses. The pharmacist doesn't even need to get the doctor to sign off. They are drawing up an agreement, faxing it to the doctor and he said he will sign.

 

Wow, that is really fantastic!

[DrugSlave]

I just picked up the compounded Effexor. Everything was going quite well but one thing makes me a little nervous....after asking several questions I said I was taking brand name Effexor made by Pfizer. They said it wasn't Pfizer but a generic. Holy! I explained the doc said no substitutions and that I have had a reaction in the past when switching from brand name Effexor to a generic. They explained that it was actually brand name Effexor that was sold to a Pfizer subsidiary as a generic. The subsidiary sells it at a generic price. The pill is exactly the same. They showed me a Pfizer brand name Effexor pill and the generic and it looked the same. I said are you sure about this and they said yes. Still makes me nervous. Frig. They better be right. I googled and found nothing.

 

Anyway, everything is documented and signed by my family doctor. They only need 2 - 3 days notice for a new prescription.

 

[DrugSlave]

I had an apparently unrealistic fantasy that I would feel no new withdrawal effects from the 2.5% drop. I figured such a small cut might not have any effect.

 

Day 16: Didn't sleep well the night before. I felt sleepy during the day and didn't feel that great. Then in mid-afternoon I started feeling a little better and even made plans to go out that night, which is rare. We don't socialize much anymore. Then suddenly I had this bizarre mood swing. I got really annoyed a couple of times over the smallest things. I then realized I was not in the right frame of mind and had to cancel going out. After a couple of hours I was ok again.

 

Day 17: Woke up early with a headache and weird head symptoms. It lasted about half the day and then I felt fine in the evening.

 

Day 18: Today. So far I feel ok.

 

Yesterday I was so discouraged. I thought the new symptoms would stay. I was thinking I might not be able to do the taper. I only made a 2.5% cut and I'm in the middle of week 3 planning to hold for 4 weeks. It would take me 14 years to get down to around 0.3mg or one bead at this rate. I was very discouraged thinking that I'm going really slow yet having new symptoms.

 

I feel a little better now about it. I guess the symptoms will come and go. I still wonder a bit about the generic Venlafaxine the pharmacy gave me which they say is the same as the brand name stuff. See above post for more details.

 

peace out

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DrugSlave]

Well, it's Day 23 since I dropped 2.5% from 37.5mg of Effexor to 36.6mg. So far, I've only had 2 days where I felt new symptoms - Day 16: mood swings and Day 17: headache and weird head symptoms. I've felt ok since. I have had 3 nights where I didn't sleep well. I'm not sure if that is withdrawal related. Not sleeping well and chronic fatigue don't go well together.

 

So, I'm calling the pharmacy tomorrow to speak with the pharmacist. I'm thinking of suggesting a 5% decrease and hold for 4 weeks. This is still very slow. It would take me 7 years to get down to 0.3mg or one bead at this pace.

 

What do you guys think?

 

thanks and best wishes to all

 

[baroquep]

Hi DrugSlave, Very appropriate username, that's certainly how I feel sometimes.  I too experienced the weird head sensations when I first started tapering but that symptom has completely disappeared.  Good to hear that you haven't had any major disruptions.  You could definitely see if you are able to manage a 5% taper but be sure to keep track of your daily symptom pattern until you are able to map out a trend and what your central nervous system can managed without too many withdrawal symptoms.  I found it took a fair bit of trial and error to track my monthly pattern and imagine it will likely be the same for you as well.  I started out tapering 10% and reduced it to 5% once I reached 50% of my original dose and am now considering doing the Brass Monkey slide so that each taper is a little gentler.  I'm going to attach a few links that will help you track your symptoms and a couple of links to help you to determine the number of years it will take to safely taper off of Effexor.  Effexor has proven to be a very difficult drug to taper, as I'm sure you can appreciate, and it's best to be cautious as you go along.

Rate Symptoms Daily to Check Patterns and Progress

 

Tapering Calculator - Online
Tapering Calculator - Download

 

Brass Monkey Slide

[DrugSlave]

Thanks baroquep. I checked out the links. My wife thinks I should be very cautious and I'm thinking now about a 4% drop instead of 5%. A 4% drop would bring me from 36.6mg to 35.1mg. I held for over 3 years so I don't know how my system will react to back to back cuts. I'll see what the pharmacist says.

 

I have been keeping a journal of my symptoms. I'll see next month if the patterns repeat.

 

Good luck if you try the Brass Monkey slide. I can see how that might be a good strategy. Interesting option.

 

cheers

[DrugSlave]

A pattern has emerged.

First 4 week, 2.5% drop - day 16 and 17: head sensations, mood swings, headache

Second cut, 4 weeks, 4% drop - day 17 to 19: head sensations, depression

 

It is day 22 since the second cut. No symptoms in the last 3 days. So, it appears that I get new symptoms in the middle of week 3. It's good that it doesn't last long. I think I'm going to try a 6% cut next month. Maybe I could do more but I have a life stressor that could get worse so I want to be extra cautious.

 

cheers

[DrugSlave]

Pattern broken.

 

First 4 week, 2.5% drop - day 16 and 17: head sensations, mood swings, headache

Second cut, 4 weeks, 4% drop - day 17 to 19: head sensations, depression

Next cut - 4 weeks, 6% drop - day 8: for 1/2 day felt unwell with head and eye sensations

 

It is Day 19 in the latest cut and I only had a 1/2 day of new symptoms so far. This month is easier than the previous two. I think because I had more stress in the previous two months. This month events in my personal life have been better. The pattern of new or temporary "extra" symptoms in the middle of Week 3 didn't happen this time around.

 

I am really happy with how the last few weeks have gone. In November I did a 2.5% drop for 4 weeks and felt new symptoms over a two day span. I was discouraged because it would have taken me 14 years to get off Effexor at that pace. Then a 4% drop for 4 weeks. I felt new symptoms for 3 days.

 

Five years ago I was in horrible acute withdrawal. I held for 4 months. Then I tried a 10% drop and was sick for 10 weeks. I held for 3.5 years shortly after that. Now, I can do a 6% drop with only 12 hours of "extra" symptoms. Maybe I'm being a little premature in comparing a 6% drop with a 10% drop but I think there is a significant difference.

 

It is still very early in my latest taper, but maybe my CNS is much more stabilized now. I'm kind of excited right now. This is the most hope I've had in a long, long time. I'm trying to stay even keel because this taper could go sideways at any time but right now I'm going to enjoy the success of the last few weeks.

[DrugSlave]

It is weird to now read the optimism/excitement in my last post. Things have not gone as well since then.

 

I have been cutting my dosage every 4 weeks, starting from 37.5mg:

2.5%/36.6mg  - day 16 and 17: head sensations, mood swings, headache

4%/35.1mg - day 17 to 19: head sensations, depression

6%/33mg - day 8: for 1/2 day felt unwell with head and eye sensations

8% drop/30.4mg - sick with flu for 2 months; didn't notice new symptoms; flu symptoms may have masked them

Held at 30.4mg - I held because of still having the flu and personal life stress; last two weeks felt relatively ok

10%/27.4mg - Major life stressor event; didn't notice symptoms but maybe stress masked them

10%/24.7mg - felt confidence in tapering because I endured 10% drop with stressful event; after 3 weeks, fatigue worse

5%/23.5mg - overall regular symptoms worse; escalated again after 3 weeks

Holding/23.5mg - have more bad days than usual

 

Observations:

Bizarre how I had extra symptoms after 2.5% cut, but didn't notice anything after 8% cut (had the flu) and first 10% cut (during stressful event)...

 

First few cuts I had just a few days with new symptoms (head, eye sensations; mood swings; unwell) but no overall change in the permanent symptoms I've had the last 5 years plus. The last 7 weeks my overall symptoms including the permanent symptoms got worse...I'm having more bad days than I usually do...plus occasionally new symptoms come up like in the first few cuts

 

It appears a 10% drop over 4 weeks is too fast for me. One positive thing might be that since my overall permanent symptoms are worse, could this be a sign that Effexor is indeed the cause of the symptoms and it has not morphed into Chronic Fatigue Syndrome or something else?

 

Anyway, I will hold until I feel back to my normal baseline symptoms...

 

cheers everyone

 

 

[DrugSlave]

Another interesting takeaway from my experience is that I was able to do a 10% reduction from 30.4mg to 27.4mg. The next month I didn't notice any new symptoms although I was undergoing a major life stressor (which I thought would have made it worse). Five and a half years ago, I was in acute withdrawal in January 2013. For the first 6 to 10 weeks afterwards, I had many symptoms. About half of them went away and the rest stayed to this day with no change. So in May 2013, I felt stable for about 6 weeks. I did almost the exact same reduction as above...I dropped from 30mg to 27mg (10% drop). I had nasty new symptoms for 6 to 10 weeks. I reacted significantly worse than the recent 10% drop. It appears that even if you feel stable, underneath the surface your system might still be in an unstable state.

 

I hope that made sense. 😕

[MamaCat]

Thank you for sharing the ups and downs of your effexor taper. Although we are not in the same place in regards to where we are at with the drug, just wanted to let you know I'm cheering you on. Contemplating a slow taper is overwhelming but seeing others capable of making slow changes is motivating and inspiring, even if there are ups and downs. Hope your hold goes well and you see some symptom resolution!

[DrugSlave]

Thanks for the reply MamaCat. You've been through a lot. I hope that you are going to stay on the same dose for a while in order to stabilize your system. You will hear this all over this site - the best way to taper is slow and steady.

 

I am going to hold until I feel better and then I'll probably do a 5% deduction. If that goes well I might stick with 5% cuts every 4 weeks adjusting where necessary. I might be able to tolerate 7% drops every 4 weeks but I think now I want to go slower than I can handle rather pushing it to my toleration limit. I really don't want more flare-ups like this...I'm going to slow down...

 

Comments appreciated...

 

Best wishes to all 

[Gridley]

That sounds like a good plan.  I've never yet read a post complaining about tapering too slowly but plenty about going too fast.

[DrugSlave]

I like your comment Gridley. Best of luck with the Brass monkey slide.

 

I definitely experienced the cumulative effects of tapering. It is not just a matter of whether you can tolerate a reduction over one month but over consecutive decrements. Also, many times I have experienced that the full effects of a cut can occur around the three week mark and afterwards.

[peng]

Well done on your taper of Effexor, DS.  Including a hold of 3.5 years at 37.5mg!

 

I am doing the Effexor battle also.  I had to updose recently back to 62.5mg, but a hold of 28 days saw stabilisation.

 

Sometimes I think I may have to stay on at least 75mg to have any reasonable quality of life.

Can we really believe that we will feel a lot better at zero?  I am 73 this week, maybe not for me.  If younger, probably worth going for it, though.

[DrugSlave]

Thanks for the reply Peng. I am 50. I contemplated staying on 37.5mg for the rest of my life when I held for 3.5 years. I have given thought about what I would do if I was older. 10% cuts every 4 weeks is too much for me. Now I'm guessing that the fastest I could possibly go might be 7% every 4 weeks. That would take 4.5 to 5 years to do. In reality, it will probably be longer than that. Then, if I do get to zero will I feel better? Some people take 1 to 10 years to feel better after tapering off their meds. So, realistically it might take me 6 years to get to zero and another 1 to 10 years to recover after that. I could be 65 before I feel better. Also, I may not feel better at all at that point.

 

Now, my case might be different in that, in the last 5 + years, my baseline symptoms have not improved at all. I've heard of others with persistent symptoms but no one who definitively reports no improvement over several years.

 

I empathize with your situation. I have heard others say they don't care what age they are, they would taper just to get off these horrible drugs. I'm not sure about that.

 

Then there is also the consideration of whether or not it would be worth it to updose slowly back to the original dosage. But what if that didn't help? Alto has said that might not help.

 

Quite a dilemma.

 

I wish you the best Peng.

 

[peng]

Thanks for expanding on this topic, DS, appreciate your thoughts.

Best wishes.

[MamaCat]

On 6/27/2018 at 6:59 PM, DrugSlave said:

Thanks for the reply MamaCat. You've been through a lot. I hope that you are going to stay on the same dose for a while in order to stabilize your system. You will hear this all over this site - the best way to taper is slow and steady.

 

I am going to hold until I feel better and then I'll probably do a 5% deduction. If that goes well I might stick with 5% cuts every 4 weeks adjusting where necessary. I might be able to tolerate 7% drops every 4 weeks but I think now I want to go slower than I can handle rather pushing it to my toleration limit. I really don't want more flare-ups like this...I'm going to slow down...

 

I plan on staying around 18.75 until after September. I may attempt a drop or two before December but may not, because I always struggle around my birthday (september!) and the holidays. I have some anxiety about starting a taper, may start at 7% and see what happens.

 

Question- how are you managing your taper? (via dropping the number of beads or do you have the tablets?) I'm currently just halving the number of beads in my capsules but I get generic and the 37.5's have between 53-59 beads, am contemplating talking to the pharmacist to see if doing brand name would be easier. 

 

Hope you're having a nice day!

[DrugSlave]

MamaCat, be careful switching from Effexor generic to the brand name. They are not exactly the same. I originally took Effexor for chronic pain. The pharmacist switched me from brand name to generic. I noticed a big difference in my symptoms and it took two months to recover. You are considering doing the opposite switch but I would

look into potential side effects of making that switch if I were you.

 

I'm using Effexor xr with beads. I get a compounding pharmacy to make up the doses. I'm glad you are taking it slow with your future tapering plans. Best of luck!

 

P.s. there is a small typo in your signature...it reads August 2018 when I assume it should be 2016

[ChessieCat]

On 7/4/2018 at 3:46 AM, MamaCat said:

see if doing brand name would be easier. 

 

If you decide to change, it is a good idea to do a crossover between the two different types so you will need to make sure you have enough generic left to do this.  G = generic, B = Brand

 

3/4 G + 1/4 B for a few days to a week, 1/2 G + 1/2 B for the same, 1/4 G + 3/4 B for the same.

[ChessieCat]

Please ensure you read Post #1 of this topic:  tips-for-tapering-off-effexor-and-effexor-xr-venlafaxine

 

[MamaCat]

Drugslave, thank you for letting me know about my signature! Fixed now! I think my best bet is going to be getting it compounded, pharmacist said the drug companies allow for up to a 10% variance which explains the difference in # beads. Will likely have to switch to IR and make a liquid at some point during taper, which I realize will require a slow transition as well.

 

ChessieCat, I have read the post but I will look at it again. Was curious about how others using effexor were slowly dropping their doses. I will have to do some more in-depth searching on here to see how/if other effexor users managed once their dose got low (ie, when dropping one bead at a time is too much, do people tend to just wait longer between tapers and still use the bead method or do they switch to IR and make a liquid?) Thank you for re-posting the link though!

[DrugSlave]

MamaCat, the link that ChessieCat (two cats!) provided discusses switching from beads to a liquid. I may do that at some point.

 

Boy, the last two months have been difficult. My symptoms are worse. The last 4 or 5 weeks especially. The cumulative effects of the taper have hit me. It is 7.5 weeks since my last cut. I'm not improving. In 2013 I made a 10% decrement and the extra symptoms from that drop affected me for 6 to 10 weeks. My symptoms got gradually better as far I can recall. This time I haven't seen improvement yet. It is a little worrisome.

 

The increase in symptoms are mainly feeling more unwell and more tired. I haven't been to work in 3 weeks. I work part-time. I've been working from home on the laptop. Some days I am really forcing myself to work. I take deep breaths and then let out a big sigh/breath and concentrate and tell myself - you can do this. Man, it's hard.

 

I am definitely holding until I feel better. I gotta say, I am starting to wonder if I will be able to ever get to zero. I wonder if maybe someday I will find that tapering is not working and that maybe I should updose to 112.5mg. That was the dose where I last felt well. I had mild fatigue when I was on 150mg/112.5mg but I felt 10 times better than now.

 

I dunno. I'll see how the next few weeks/months play out.

 

All comments appreciated.

[DrugSlave]

Does anyone have a time machine I could borrow?

 

I have been holding for 3 months now. It took 2 months before any improvement. I still don't feel as well as I did before the latest drops. The fatigue is worse. I haven't been in to work in 2 months. I have been working from home. I haven't seen another human being in person (beside my wife) in a week and a half....I used to be a really sociable person, now I sit on the couch...

 

I didn't think it would take this long to recover from the cuts. Man. I'm going to wait until at least another 3 or 4 months before dropping again if not longer.

 

Someone in my family has offered to foot the bill for me to go to a clinic for extensive testing, diagnosis, etc. Very kind offer, but I just don't see it as being worthwhile. My increase in symptoms makes me more confident that Effexor is the cause of my health issues. I used to question that because I was not improving like other people in withdrawal (and still not improving). Another reason is that I had serious chronic pain years ago that set in and didn't leave for years. I have mostly recovered from that (I used TMS techniques to get over the chronic pain).. I thought maybe whatever caused the chronic pain might have settled in with the withdrawal symptoms, especially chronic fatigue. I've had all the standard testing with my family doctor.

 

Does anyone think I should take up the offer and go to the clinic? It just seems like a waste of time and money but maybe I'm crazy for not trying.

 

thanks

[Meimeiquest]

What clinic?  I’d research really carefully, but finding out the things wrong with me besides withdrawal has been essential, and still a journey

 

[Meimeiquest]

I’m sorry, just realized you probably mean a withdrawal clinic.  I have not heard good stories about those.  

[DrugSlave]

Hey Meimeiquest, yea I've heard bad things about those withdrawal clinics too. I haven't really researched places.... I guess because it's my family's idea, not mine. They suggested the Mayo Clinic which I assume would be crazy expensive...I'm not sure if that's affordable. I live in Canada. Also the Cleveland clinic in Toronto...though I checked out their website and it doesn't seem like a good option for my bizarre health situation. My gut is telling me it's a waste of time and money and emotional resources...but maybe I'm wrong...

 

I'm not sure what to do...I'll probably wait until my symptoms stabilize, wait a few months and then continue tapering....I can't see it taking less than 6 years, probably more...

 

Any suggestions?

 

Thanks for the replies

[Altostrata]

Those clinics know absolutely nothing about drug-induced symptoms, tapering, or withdrawal. They may switch you abruptly to another drug or combination of drugs. I would discuss it with them before committing any funds.

 

What is your daily symptom pattern? Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

If you are finding it impossible to reduce Effexor, you might want to look into The Prozac switch or "bridging" with Prozac Are you working with a doctor who has any common sense?

[DrugSlave]

Thanks for the reply Alto. We used to communicate regularly on this thread a few years back.

 

Yea, that is what I figured regarding the Mayo clinic and places like that. I have considered the Prozac bridge and I recently read the post in your link. My doctor is a GP but he does know more than your average doc on withdrawal and he is reasonable. I've gotten to know the pharmacist at the compounding pharmacy. He is familiar with the prozac bridge as is my GP. The pharmacist is somewhat knowledgeable but not very.

 

I may try the taper again but slower (have you ever heard that before on this site?  ). If it doesn't go well I might seriously consider the bridge. However, since the acute withdrawal I went through in January 2013, I have symptoms that are permanent. I recovered from some of the acute withdrawal symptoms but the rest stayed. This worries me if I have a reaction from the prozac bridge. What if some symptoms stay permanently?

 

Alto, do you know of anyone with permanent symptoms from tapering? User "Narcissus" is similar to me. He is stuck on 75mg of Effexor, one of his main symptoms is fatigue and he says he is pretty much not really improving, maybe, kinda sorta. Other than that, I haven't heard of anyone who has experienced permanent symptoms.

 

I do keep a journal thanks... it's hard to describe daily fluctuations in symptoms...I will write another reply

 

Best wishes to all 

 

[DrugSlave]

For my daily symptom pattern:

 

I wake up at 10 everyday. I drag myself out of bed. I'm grumpy and barely functional for an hour. My wife let's me be because she knows I need this time to wake up. Often my symptoms improve after 2pm but not always. I usually go to bed around 8:30pm. I lie in bed until 11 or so and then fall asleep. The only time I am active is during the afternoons. One or two days a week I will have so little energy and feel so crappy that I do nothing all day except feed myself, brush my teeth and lay on the couch. Those days I usually spend 16 or 17 hours in bed over the 24 hour period.

 

My journal for a week might look something like:

Tired, so-so mood

Ok (relatively)

Unwell, irritable, tired

Tired; slightly better after 2pm

Ok, busy, exhausted and unsocial in evening

Headache, felt better in late afternoon

Depressed, tired, did nothing

 

So, it varies.

 

The pharmacist I mentioned previously is a great guy and knows some but he did make one bad suggestion. I told him that I started the recent taper with a 2.5% cut over 4 weeks, then a 4% cut, 6%, 8% and then 10%. I told him that strangely, I felt more withdrawal symptoms after the 2.5% and 4% cuts than I did after the 8% (though I had a bad flu which may have masked my other symptoms) and first 10% drops (the first 10% drop was done during major life stressor that may have overwhelmed the other symptoms). Anyway, as puzzling as that is he suggested maybe since I faired better with larger cuts that I try a 5mg cut which would be over a 20% cut with my current dose of 23.5mg of Effexor. Yikes.

 

But maybe if I do taper again, I should increase the holds for longer than 4 weeks and increase the % cut...ie: instead of 5% cut for 4 weeks, do a 6% cut for 6 weeks...

 

 

[Meimeiquest]

For me, I have problems outside of drug withdrawal, and then adding the “grenade”of drug exposure, then the stress that withdrawal causes is just toxic.  I think a great regular doctor is invaluable.  Inflammation is usually a big driver, but it can come from many places.  Very simply, 3 blood tests that any doctor should be familiar with...HS-CRP, fasting blood sugar, fasting insulin level, HGB A1C.  You need the CRP ideally 1 or less (it’s a measure of inflammation), FBS ideally 85 max, insulin level 6 max, I can’t remember ideal HGB A1C, I’m down to 5.6 and still not good enough.  Datis K (it’s sort of like Kardashian, but not) has a poorly edited but excellent book called Why is my brain not working on things that go wrong.  If I was starting from scratch I’d look at The Wahls Protocol.  Mark Hyman has something called The Broken Brain.  

 

Im sure there are good functional medicine docs in Canada, I just don’t know who they are.  The functional medicine division of the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio is kind of a prototype of bringing functional medicine into more traditional medicine.  

 

Here’s an example just of me...all symptoms consistent with inflammation until Cymbalta at 45, then weird reaction...that’s perimenopause age with the loss of the calming/anti inflammatory effect of progesterone (and my estrogen levels are still high at 58, huge imbalance). Chronic giardiasis (parasite) from my China-born daughter, zillions of antibiotics in childhood, hepatitis A in Africa, now mold sensitivity, my sister’s genetic testing showed problems with a key detox gene, my genetic liver testing was abnormal, my copper/zinc balance off, ravaging effects of obesity....or you can just say I have bipolar disorder.  I’m sure there’s a physical story going on with you as well.

[Meimeiquest]

Just glanced at your list.  Do you 100% know you don’t have sleep apnea?  “Unrefreshing sleep” is a huge symptom. It totally messes with the autonomic nervous system.  I had that in spades...

[DrugSlave]

I do have mild/moderate sleep apnea. I wasn't able to use a machine because I would swallow air and wake up burping like a walrus. I tried a dental device but I couldn't notice any difference.

 

Thanks for all the detailed info. I will Google those books. Wow, you have a complicated history. I guess many of us do. Each case is unique in some way.

 

I tried a naturopath before...no results...

 

There could be some physical component as you say. There may also be a psychological angle too. I overcame my chronic pain reading books on Tension Myoneural Syndrome and going to therapy. 

 

My doctor probably did all those tests. I'm not sure if the tests are a little different in Canada. I'll check my old blood test results.

 

Thanks for the comments 

 

[Meimeiquest]

I’m sorry to bother....I need to get back to my real life...this is escapism for me.  Anyway, part of my job in utilization review is to read doctor’s notes for people prescribed sleep studies (second guessing doctors is probably not the most emotionally healthy job for me after all my personal experiences).  But if you can’t tolerate CPAP, there are two other kinds of pressure available.  One is BiPap, the other is new, i can’t remember the name. Some people do better on APAP, it’s set at a range and the machine selects the amount with each breath.  

 

I totally, totally agree with Alto’s theory of why withdrawal syndrome happens, but I think part of it is having a loss of resilience from other factors making the brain more vulnerable.  

 

Something I’d like to do is from retrainingthebrain.com. It’s a lot of work, but there are some amazing stories.  

 

I have ave done work with a chiro that my then pdoc recommended....There are exceptions but generally I don’t think the alternative practitioners have the breadth of knowledge and the prescribing options that a functionally trained physician (like in our state, they can’t prescribe blood tests). I guess I’ve been writing because I know you’ve been working long and hard.  It stinks!