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DrugSlave

DrugSlave: tapering Effexor

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DrugSlave

Hi everyone,

 

I am taking Effexor for chronic pain not depression.

 

On Effexor for 10 years, half of those years on 112.5mg the other half 150mg

Started reducing a year ago

February 2012 - 150mg

March 2012 - 131mg

April 2012 - 112.5mg

July 2nd 2012 - 92mg

July 23rd - chronic pain got worse

October 21st - started 75mg (chronic pain flare up subsided and has been stable ever since)

November 16th - 56mg

December 11th - 37.5mg

January 5th, 2013 - 19mg

January 22nd, 2013 - 22.5mg

January 23rd, 2013 - 37.5mg

January 24th, 2013 - 30mg

From November 16th when I dropped to 56mg up to January 22nd the withdrawal effects gradually got worse. Prior to this I experienced no withdrawal effects. On January 22nd when I increased the dosage to 22.5mg I was trying to decrease the withdrawal effects because they were getting too strong. The small increase had no effect. On the following day when I increased to 37.5mg after an hour and 45 minutes the withdrawal effects got significantly worse. I went to my family Doctor (who was much more knowlegeable than I thought) and he recommended taking 30mg. Today I feel slightly better than yesterday but still not as good as when I was on 19mg.

 

I'm wondering if I should stay at 30mg or should I decrease to maybe 25mg since I felt better at 19mg and I was on 19mg for 2 and half weeks?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Best of health to everyone!

 

Thank you!

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peggy

Hi DrugSlave and welcome!

 

Looks like you have been reducing a little bit too fast. We generally suggest that 10% of each reduced dose every 3-4 weeks is the most you should reduce. It can take up to 3 weeks for some withdrawal symptoms to emerge - if you reduce before then you are going to get confused as to which dose you were stable at. Once your nervous system gets destabilised it can take a little longer to even out.

 

I am also reducing effexor. When i go too fast and get an increase in symptoms then it takes a good 28 days for me to feel better again. With this in mind, it might be would be good to pick a dose and stay there for 4 weeks to see how you even out. Going up and down each few days just confuses your brain. Perhaps 30mg would be a good dose - if it were me I would probably do 37.5 - mainly because that is a whole capsule and easier. But whatever you do, remember that it will take some time - some days you will feel better than others during this restabilisation period, so you must be patient

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Altostrata

Welcome, DrugSlave.

 

Finding the right dosage when updosing after withdrawal symptoms appear can be tricky. Since 30mg seems to be working, if I were you, I'd stay there and stabilize for at least a month.

 

Then, consider reducing by 10% or less so as not to stress your nervous system.

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DrugSlave

Thanks very much for the replies. I have decided to stay on 30mg for at least a month.

After that I will take the 10% approach. I did not realize that the nervous system is more sensitive the lower you go. I was also surprised when I increased back up to 37.5mg. At higher doses I increased by 37.5mg increments and had no problems.

 

Given my history, when I try the 10% approach how long do you think I will need to stay at each increment? Or is it better to just try the first decrease and see how things go?

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Karma

Hi DrugSlave

 

We recommend that when you resume your taper you hold for 4 weeks and see how that goes and go at that interval a couple of times to get an idea of how your body will react. If all is going well, then you can try to hold for 3 weeks for a couple of decrements and see how that goes. Again, if everything goes well you could go down to 2 weeks.

 

The problem is that now you've sensitized your system so you may not be able to have the same success tapering you had earlier in your taper. Not to say that you can't get off of Effexor, just to say that you may need to give your system a little more time in between decrements to stabilize.

 

Karma

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DrugSlave

Hey folks,

 

It has been 11 days since I started taking 30mg of effexor. I'm typing this post myself. My previous posts were typed by my wife because I was too sick. Up until maybe yesterday, I found that reading for more than a couple of minutes caused dizziness, headache and nausea. Actually, I can really feel my eyes as I type right now. I'm going to see the doctor tomorrow. I'm trying to decide if I'm able to go back to work. I work on a computer all day.

 

A week and a half ago when I was tweaking the dosage, the symptoms were brutal. I cried on and off for 2 days. I had flu-like symptoms and a headache. It was awful. I still feel my eyes are affected, I get dizzy sometimes and I feel moderately depressed as well as just feeling generally unwell. I haven't had a beer in over 3 weeks. I've been slamming back 20 beer a week for the last 25 years. It's a weird feeling to not have any desire to drink alcohol. I also don't feel sociable. Just hangin' with my wife is all I feel like doing. I watch tv all day, force myself to exercise and sleep about 12 hours a day (I also have sleep apnea).

 

I'm feeling anxiety trying to decide if I should go back to work. I'm not sure if I can handle being in front of a computer screen all day. I don't feel sociable either. I'm wondering if symptoms will get worse at the 3 week point. I also ask myself if I should wait until it's been 28 days on the new dosage before returning to work. Hmmmm...

 

anyway, good luck to everyone out there...

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Altostrata

Those sound like withdrawal syndrome.

 

How are you sleeping? Are you feeling better today?

 

If not, you might want to try 37.5mg.

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DrugSlave

My sleep is not satisfying. It hasn't been for years. I think the combination of effexor and sleep apnea are the culprits. I never feel rested and energetic. It has been my main motivation for tapering off effexor. I just got a dental device recently for the sleep apnea. I'm not using it right now because I'm too irritable. One thing at a time. CPAP machines didn't work for me.

 

I found that after being on 19mg for 17 days, switching to 22.5mg for a day, then 37.5mg for a day and then finally settling on 30mg, that my symptoms improved each day for the first 4 days. Since then I have plateaued with the one exception that reading doesn't bother me anymore.

 

My doctor suggested I stay off work until February 25th. It is a relief. I don't feel ready for the social aspect of work. The 25th will be slightly over a month since I started 30mg and hopefully I will be feeling a little better by then. I think I will tough it out and not go back up to 37.5mg.

 

My wife, boss, and doctor are all very understanding. It helps...

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Altostrata

There may be some ups and downs as you stabilize.

 

How are you taking 30mg?

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DrugSlave

We are counting out the beads. We tried to find a scale that would measure it but it seems difficult to find one that is accurate enough for fractions of a milligram.

 

My wife has talked to 3 different pharmacists who have all recommended to just take 37.5mg every second day and then every third day, etc. It's a real shame that horrible advice is being passed on to people. I know from experience that method could make you really sick.

 

You know, I'm feeling a little better. I'm not getting the headaches like before and I can read without problems.

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peggy

i find it does take a while to stabilse after a hiccup.

 

imagine you have fallen and scraped your knee (nervous system) - putting the bandage on doesn't make it better overnight, it takes a while to heal. But going up and down only keeps scraping it more.

 

staying off work can be good- use that time to get some gentle exercise and maybe even start practicing meditation - good habits to help you recover.

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DrugSlave

Great idea. Thanks for the suggestion. I've often thought about meditation but never tried it. I'll check out youtube and see if I can find some guidance...

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Altostrata

See our topics in the Symptoms and Self Care forum and Finding Meaning forum.

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DrugSlave

Ok, I read a couple of topics in the forum and checked out youtube and then meditated. It was cool, I liked it. Relaxing. I found it hard to keep my legs crossed because I'm incredibly inflexible. My knees were bugging me so I had to straighten out my legs. I was able to stay in the moment probably better than I thought I would. Before I opened my eyes I guessed that 16 minutes had passed. It was actually 27 minutes. I was quite surprised. I've tried similar things in the past such as mindfulness, zen, yoga and hypnosis. I think it is therapeutic. I plan to continue.

 

On another topic, does anyone else get sore gums? I've read that this can be a withdrawal side effect. I've been getting sore gums for years but never as bad as the last 2 months while the withdrawal effects have kicked into high gear.

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Altostrata

You don't have to cross your legs. You can meditate sitting comfortably in a chair or lying down -- or walking or riding the bus.

 

A lot of people experience bruxism or jaw clenching as a withdrawal symptom (or side effect of antidepressants, too). This can cause mouth or gum pain. You may wish to get a sleep guard from your dentist.

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DrugSlave

Man, this withdrawal is up and down. I was feeling a lot better last week and I was feeling a little guilty for being off work. Then this weekend I started feeling crappy again....headaches, depressed, etc. Yesterday I started crying during supper for no reason. I'm different than most experiencing withdrawal when it comes to sleep. I sleep for 10 to 12 hours every day. Yesterday I slept for 12 hours and then I slept for 3 hours in the afternoon. This is a side effect of Effexor that I've experienced all along. I hate it.

 

I have no energy to do anything, I feel cranky and sad. Gums are sore. My headache kicked in about 2 hours ago. I don't feel like talking to anyone. It has been 18 days since I've been on 30mg. I go back to work in 2 weeks. I hope I feel better by then.

 

At least the eye symptoms haven't come back. I can read without any problems.

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Altostrata

What is your symptom pattern? It's a good idea to keep notes of your daily pattern.

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DrugSlave

I haven't posted in a long time. I hope everyone is doing well.

 

After my horrible experience at the end of January I stuck to the same dosage of 30mg of Effexor for 4 months. It took about 6 weeks for the major side effects to stop. I waited another 2 and a half months until I felt confident to start tapering again. On May 26 I started the 10% reduction method and reduced from 30mg to 27mg. First week, I felt fine. Starting getting a little more cranky and tired the second week. After 2 and a half weeks the withdrawal effects are kicking in. More tired than usual, more emotional and some mild head symptoms.

 

Last night my wife and I had our second bad experience in a week while shopping for a new car. The dealer was incredibly pushy and rude. I stormed out. I could literally feel the emotion in my face for 20 minutes afterward, especially in the cheeks. This is a withdrawal effect for me. I remember it from January/February (side effects are so weird for this crazy medication).

 

Anyway, it looks like I'll have to wait at least 6 weeks (from May 26) before the next decrement. The 10% method appears to be too fast for me. I busted out the calculator and figured out how long the 5% method would take with 4 weeks between decrements. It would take over 3 years to drop from 27mg to 3mg and then jump off! 175 weeks! I've already been tapering for a year (from 150mg to 27mg).

 

Is that really what I'm looking at here?

 

thanks in advance for any responses and best wishes to everyone!

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Narcissus

Hi DrugSlave (What a name!), the episodes of hostility (which I've also had) suggest to me that you're probably going too fast, as you say.  3 years is a while but if you're sensitive enough it may be necessary.  10 years is a long time to be on Effexor.  I'm still waiting to recover at 75 mgs, so I don't really know much about what happens at the lower doses.  I'm sure others who are later in their tapers will have advice for you.  

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DrugSlave

Thanks for the comments Narcissus. So you have been steady on 75mg since October 2012 and are still experiencing significant symptoms? I empathize with you. It looks like you went down and UP too fast....I experienced the effects of going back up too quickly....it can be a bad thing....very bad....slow changes seems to be the way to go...

 

I hope you feel better.  :)

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Narcissus

^Yeah, still pretty sick after six months.  And yes slow seems to be the way to go.  Hang in there and let us know what you decide to do.

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Rhiannon

I haven't posted in a long time. I hope everyone is doing well.

 

After my horrible experience at the end of January I stuck to the same dosage of 30mg of Effexor for 4 months. It took about 6 weeks for the major side effects to stop. I waited another 2 and a half months until I felt confident to start tapering again. On May 26 I started the 10% reduction method and reduced from 30mg to 27mg. First week, I felt fine. Starting getting a little more cranky and tired the second week. After 2 and a half weeks the withdrawal effects are kicking in. More tired than usual, more emotional and some mild head symptoms.

 

Last night my wife and I had our second bad experience in a week while shopping for a new car. The dealer was incredibly pushy and rude. I stormed out. I could literally feel the emotion in my face for 20 minutes afterward, especially in the cheeks. This is a withdrawal effect for me. I remember it from January/February (side effects are so weird for this crazy medication).

 

Anyway, it looks like I'll have to wait at least 6 weeks (from May 26) before the next decrement. The 10% method appears to be too fast for me. I busted out the calculator and figured out how long the 5% method would take with 4 weeks between decrements. It would take over 3 years to drop from 27mg to 3mg and then jump off! 175 weeks! I've already been tapering for a year (from 150mg to 27mg).

 

Is that really what I'm looking at here?

 

thanks in advance for any responses and best wishes to everyone!

 

You may find that as you taper slowly and gently, over time you continue to stabilize, and you can go a little bit faster. That has happened for me, although I still can't go very fast at all.

 

But even if it takes a couple of years to get all the way off--that's better than not getting off at all, isn't it?

 

And in my case I have found that the effects of the drugs have gone down with the dosages as I have tapered, so that for example at my current low dose of AD I am finding that I'm getting back more and more of my original personality and emotions as I go. That makes it a lot easier to be patient and just taper at the rate my body seems to tolerate best.

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DrugSlave

Thanks for your comments Rhi. What your saying does make sense and I hope you are right. Things do seem to slowly stabilize over time. I think I will hold off for maybe another couple of months before trying the 5% method. I want to stabilize before dropping again.

 

I forgot to mention that the first symptom I noticed was feeling less sociable.

 

The main reason I want to get off Effexor is because I believe it's causing my chronic fatigue. When the withdrawal effects get worse, the fatigue also gets worse. My head feels so sleepy and foggy.

 

cheers

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DrugSlave

Man I'm sick....and sick of being sick. 32 days since I went down to 27mg. Dysphoric mood, head symptoms. Don't feel like socializing at all. Just want to curl up in a ball and sleep. I felt so crappy last week and then I got a bad cold on top of it. I don't think I smiled once for 2 days.

 

Sorry to be so negative, but man...it's hard to stay postive...it's tempting to give up on the taper and just take this crap for the rest of my life....I would definitely do it if it didn't make me so tired.....

 

I hope they don't discontinue this medicine. I'm completely dependant on it for probably the next 6 or 7 years....

 

Hopefully I will get some relief after the 6 week point...

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Jemima

One of the peculiarities of Effexor is that tapering too fast has a way of piling up on a person.  That is, you may feel fine at a certain dose for a month, but when you cut again too soon, it seems to trigger withdrawal symptoms that linger from a previous cut.  You might do well to hold right where you are for another month or so.  Don't be ashamed to updose either.  There's no point in being miserable just for the sake of getting off the drug a few months earlier.  I'm guessing, but I think if you had gone up by maybe 1-1.5 mg. the second week after your May 26th cut, you might be feeling better by now.

 

Effexor is one really nasty drug.  I'm sorry to see that so many people are being prescribed it for pain.

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DrugSlave

I once switched from brand name effexor to the generic brand and my chronic pain increased significantly. I switched back and it took 2 months to get back to normal.

 

I count out the beads from a 37.5mg capsule. The number of beads range from 105 to 145!!! I do the same as Peggy and use a knife and count out groups of 5. I could never just assume the beads are 0.3mg though. They vary wildly. The smallest ones are probably 1/8 the size of the largest ones. So, I'm on 27mg currently which is 72% of 37.5. I count out all the beads in the capsule and remove 28% of them. Takes about 10 minutes per capsule. Pain in the _____ but it's worth it.

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DrugSlave

keepingon said: "Whilst on Effexor aside from side effects I craved anything sweet: Has anyone experienced this?Has any one gone through:Intense body heat and then chillsNo desire for any thing sweetAbsolute frustrationShaking and tremblingheadackes "

 

---------------------

 

The only thing sweet that I crave is my wife. :)

 

Out of your list, I experienced:

Intense body heat and then chillsAbsolute frustrationheadackes

 

 

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DrugSlave

Thanks Jemima. I think you are right. I should have updosed. The suffering is not worth it.

 

As much as I hate this drug right now, I gotta say it helped me alot. It allowed me to work for several years. It wasn't the best solution to my chronic pain, but it did work.

 

Three years ago I learned about TMS (Tension Myositis Syndrome). I've been able to reduce my chronic pain 90% because of Dr.Sarno's discovery of TMS. I wish I found it before Effexor.

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DrugSlave

I've been doing a lot of thinking. I've come to realize it might be a better option for me to stop tapering Effexor and just keep taking this poison for the rest of my life. Just a drop of 10% from 30mg to 27 mg has been causing me serious withdrawal symptoms for 6 weeks. It's brutal. If I go to the 5% method it will take me 7 years to get off the drug. And then who knows how long I will have symptoms after that.

 

The reason I want to get off it is because the original reason for taking it was chronic pain and now 90% + of the pain is gone. However, I have chronic fatigue that I attribute to Effexor. I want to get off it so badly like everyone else and to feel better but do I really want to suffer through 7 years of withdrawal? The best tapering option would be a micro-taper, so the withdrawal severity would theoretically be less than it is now but it would still be very difficult. I guess I would make decreases less than 5% but more often.

 

Maybe I'm better off accepting the chronic fatigue and taking the Effexor forever at a low dose of 27mg or a full capsule of 37.5mg.

 

Now, I'll probably do a little more experimenting with tapering before I make this very big decision. What if I stay on 27mg for a year or more? At some point I guess I would no longer be in "withdrawal". Is it possible that if I waited a year or two that I would be able to taper using the 10% method? I dropped from 150mg to 27mg in about a year and a half. Maybe I need to adjust.

 

Anyway, any thoughts are welcomed.

 

thanks and best wishes to everyone :)

 

 

 

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basildev

Hi Drugslave,

 

I merged this post with your introduction post because it's is essentially about your tapering journey.

 

I'm really sorry you're having such a hard time with your withdrawal symptoms. It sounds like you make a few cuts and then it all caught up with you. That happened to me too.

 

I think that ultimately it's important to listen to your own heart and trust your own judgement. Everybody is different, and you have to do what's right for you.

 

I agree with Jemima, Effexor is a very nasty drug and I've seen quite a few people get down to the level you have and experience debilitating symptoms.

 

Have you attempted to updose a little to see if that alleviates the symptoms?

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Rhiannon

Well, as you know, since nobody is doing any actual reputable science on AD withdrawal, it's more an art than a science, based on  anecdotal observations of people going through it.  Just had to make the disclaimer, because I'm going to tell you my best guess, but I want you to understand it's a guess.

 

My guess is that 10% cuts are just too big for your CNS and you'd do better with a microtaper approach with intermittent long holds. My guess is that it will probably take you a couple of years to taper fully. My guess is that if you did hold where you are for a year you would DEFinitely stabilize (given your past record) and feel much better, and your taper after that would probably be a bit easier than it's been, but 10% would probably still be too big of chunks for you to cut at once.

 

I could be wrong about that though. It's possible that as you say, if you just took a while to really recover from that rapid drop in the past, you'd be able to pick it back up at the 10% rate after. That seems a reasonable hypothesis to me too.

 

It's up to you whether or not to continue to taper, of course. But if you go slowly enough you can do it without the roller coaster from hell kind of experience you've been having so far. I suspect that if you went with smaller cuts, you wouldn't suffer as much.

 

I'm afraid I can never really understand when people say "It's going to take me so long to get off this drug I guess I'll just stay on it." What, it's better to stay on something that is clearly bad for you and clearly making you ill for the rest of your life, than to spend a few years tapering off of it? That's just not something I can relate to. Even if I die before I finish my taper, I have already reduced my meds so much that I've gotten back a lot of my self, my true personality, and my health, and I wouldn't trade that for anything.

 

That's the piece you may be overlooking: as you taper, you will be on lower and lower doses of the med, and the effects of it will decrease. So even while tapering you will experience improvement, if you're going slowly enough to feel well enough to enjoy it.

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Barbarannamated

DrugSlave,

 

I respect that you proposed this question to the group. I did not have this group and *tapered* far too quickly. I didnt feel too badly, but things, including the life I lost while drugged, caught up to me in a BIG way. I can't imagine attempting to taper off of Klonopin and trazodone after what I've experienced with Pristiq even though I know it would benefit me if done properly. I'm in such a fragile and volatile state that I am barely holding on, so I do understand your feelings.

 

That said, I believe that dosage minimization and harm reduction are key.

 

Just my humble opinion. I wish you the very best.

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DrugSlave

Wow, you guys are awesome. Thanks so much for the replies.

 

Basildev, I haven't tried to updose. In retrospect, I wish I had a few weeks ago but now that I'm at the 6 week point I'm hoping that some relief is around the corner. Last time I experienced a reduction in symptoms after 6 weeks and others have said the same. After 6 weeks of suffering to reduce 3mg I hate to go back up now. I guess I was so focused on reducing and also seeing how I would react to the 10% reduction that I just stuck with it. Maybe I'm wrong about this...maybe I should still updose now...

 

Barbarannamated, thanks for your comments. Yes, tapering too quickly does catch up with you. It seems to be cumulative for sure. I was off work for 4 years at one point and battled insurance companies. It's such an awful experience. I was lucky enough to experience enough improvement in my health to return to work. You've been through so much, I really feel for you. Best of luck.

 

Rhi, we have lots to discuss. I'll start a new post for you. :)

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MrAnxious

Drugslave,

 

When i read over your posts it amazes me of how much in common what you are going through I have gone through: its the effexor..Rhi couldn't have said it better about tapering off it and taking two years or possibly having major problems from what the drug is actually doing to your body. Its hell..its torture and i really never thought in my life i would go through such a roller coaster of hell but you know what : its worth it in the end. Why ? Because i am off the effexor. You can do it, hold for a while and then resume your taper. Stabilize yourself so you have a clear mind and can make the right action plan, you dont want to be on this stuff forever, then believe you can do it with support and the techniques you have learned in here and elsewhere. You are not alone in this fight . I am still going through waves of hell 9 months off the drug but you know what i have also seen improvements in so many aspects of my life, i am severely fatigued from it, find out my sleep apnea test in 2 days, have depression i never had before(put on effexor for anxiety) and heartbeats through my body and sore muscles...but i hold onto faith and when i do get through this , i will be ten times the human than i use to be, what doesnt kill you really does make you stronger : create an action plan my friend, read my threads and witness my progress from the start. I am a product of effexor...oh and it probably cause you are on 10 years that its that much tougher i was on 5-6 yrs and came off in like a month and a half per doctors order...fail. The road is long but its an experience that not many other get and the introspection into ones self is like no other. TALK TO ME ANYTIME.

 

Mr.A

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mammaP

I am tapering efexor too and have been feeling much the same re carrying on or giving up. I've even considered

throwing in the towel and stopping it completely. I got down to 5 beads from the capsule then stopped. I'd been tapering from 37.5 

for over a year. Within 3 weeks I was suicidal, that's when I joined this forum. I went back on at 5 beads but it was too activating

so dropped to 4 beads. Then stabilised and dropped to 3. Suffered a bit for 2 weeks then settled but with a period of great stress

the withdrawal kicked in big time. Back up to 4 beads and waiting to stabilise again. I can be seriously suicidal some days and feel a 

glimmer of hope other days. It is so hard and I know how you feel. I hope you stabilise and manage to continue your taper without

more problems. My taper was pretty much painless for all of it until I jumped off at 5 beads. With every drop I felt a tiny bit dizzy for

a day or so then felt better, held for a month or so then another tiny drop, removing beads. I felt better than I had in years when I

stopped and really thought I was ready.   We'll get there in the end, just need to be patient, which isn't my strongest quality! 

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DrugSlave

Rhi, I find the idea of holding for a while appealing. First of all, I need some relief. But also since I've dropped so much in the last year and a half, I think my body needs a break. I held for 4 months after my last horrible withdrawal experience in January. I felt relatively good for the last month of those 4 months. I still had the aversion to alcohol which tells me I was still in withdrawal, cause I sure as hell was not like that before. :)

 

I'm suprised when you say you think I could get off Effexor in a couple of years. To go from 27mg using the 10% method and 4 week holds would take over 3 years (to jump off at 0.3mg or approximately one bead). Since the 10% method is too fast for me, it would take longer than 3 years. The 5% method would take almost 7 years. Judging from my recent experience the 5% method might be too fast. A micro-taper of 2% every week would take over 4 years, not counting extended holds if the withdrawal started getting too strong. So after 4 weeks of 2% drops weekly I would be down to 24.9mg from 27mg. Using the 10% method (every 4 weeks) I would be down to 24.3mg after 4 weeks. So the 2% weekly method would be almost as fast as the 10% method and we know that we feel cumulative drops, so I'm skeptical that I could even go that fast. I can't see it taking less than 5 years and I think it could be more like 7 to 10 years. Sorry, I don't mean to be argumentative I really appreciate all the advice you have given me. Does this make sense? Is there something else I should be throwing into this formula? (I created a "taper calculator" using MS Excel....you put in the dosage, size of taper drops, taper speed and it spits out a weekly or daily schedule....I can post it somewhere if anyone wants it)

 

I think you might be right that I'm overlooking the possibility of relief when I get to lower doses. That also may be another reason to hold longer because I haven't felt any relief so far. When I held for the 4 months, I still had the chronic fatigue as bad as when I was on 150mg. People say to me: "since your chronic fatigue has not decreased while on a lower dosage, maybe Effexor is not the cause...". The withdrawal makes the chronic fatigue worse. Perhaps because of the withdrawal I haven't felt any relief. Maybe if I wait for a year, my chronic fatigue will improve at the lower dose.

 

I'm glad to hear your taper is going well. Best of luck!

 

many thanks! take care

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