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How mental health profs support lying to those they serve http://wp.me/p5nnb-9rQ


GiaK
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That mental health professional who claimed that people with "mental illness" can't make a fully informed choice greatly angers me and here is the reason why. The label is falsely applied to anyone who doesn't agree with the treatment.

 

And even if someone is floridly psychotic and unable to make one, once they are stabalized and in a position to do so, this discussion is never revisited.  In my opinion, they use that as a convenient excuse to permanently keep people on meds.

 

By the way, I don't know for a fact that someone who is floridly psychotic is incapable of making a choice.  I am just saying if this is true, it is a poor excuse since the treatment never gets revisited when the person is stabalized.

 

Anyway, thanks for sharing this. Sadly, I can't say I am surprised.

 

CS

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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What Comsports said.

 

1989 - 1992 Parnate* 

1992-1998 Paxil - pooped out*, oxazapam, inderal

1998 - 2005 Celexa - pooped out* klonopin, oxazapam, inderal

*don't remember doses

2005 -2007   Cymbalta 60 mg oxazapam, inderal, klonopin

Started taper in 2007:

CT klonopin, oxazapam, inderal (beta blocker) - 2007

Cymbalta 60mg to 30mg 2007 -2010

July 2010 - March 2018 on hiatus due to worsening w/d symptoms, which abated and finally disappeared. Then I stalled for about 5 years because I didn't want to deal with W/D.

March 2018 - May 2018 switch from 30mg Cymbalta to 20mg Celexa 

19 mg Celexa October 7, 2018

18 mg Celexa November 5, 2018

17 mg Celexa  December 2, 2019

16 mg Celexa January 6, 2018 

15 mg Celexa March 7, 2019

14 mg Celexa April 24, 2019

13 mg Celexa June 28, 2019

12.8 mg Celexa November 10, 2019

12.4 Celexa August 31, 2020

12.2 Celexa December 28, 2020

12 mg Celexa March 2021

 

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Thanks for the endorsement Baxter :)

 

On a related note, I read the dicussion on Informed Consent and all I can say OMG. In spite of the psychologist from Norway calmly explaining why a fast taper is dangerous and refuting other pro drug points, he got raked to the coals for being opinionated.

 

I know I am not exactly unbiased but I honestly felt he didn't do anything wrong. As I said on the MIA site, unless you say, "rah, rah psychiatry", you are a crazy extremist who can't discuss anything.

 

CS

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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which discussion on Informed Consent are you referring to? 

Everything Matters: Beyond Meds 

https://beyondmeds.com/

withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
 

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Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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oh...my post was from another linked-in thread...that one is too long to read right now...sigh

Everything Matters: Beyond Meds 

https://beyondmeds.com/

withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
 

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Sorry for the confusion.  While I was reading the thread that your post was about, I found the "Informed Consent" one.

 

CS

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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Brilliant response Gia  :)  Made my day. 

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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How is "mentally ill" or "seriously mentally ill" defined in this context? Is any person being treated with antidepressants, for example, considered "mentally ill"? We know that many MHPs are taking some psychotropic, so does that mean they are some degree of mentally ill? (This is just for argument sake)

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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these terms are all fairly meaningless...as you suggest...that's the whole problem...you label people and then you can take rights away...

 

I was in a unique position to see through the BS...I was both...I was the labeled person in some contexts and the professional in other contexts...it becomes glaringly obvious that it's BS that way

 

it's all BS...all labeling objectifies and dehumanizes...allowing people to commit human rights violations while believing they're doing it in the interest of that poor sick person who can't take care of themselves...

Everything Matters: Beyond Meds 

https://beyondmeds.com/

withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
 

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I was given numerous drugs without knowing what they were. They told me what they were for, agitation, anxiety etc but

I had no idea that some were antipsychoticsuntil I came here. If I was at home I stopped them after the first 1 or 2.

If I was in hospital I was given them regularly but were stopped because of side effects.

One of them nearly killed me as I was retaining fluid.

I put on 5 st in 3 months and was being told to watch what I eat, and told that everyone blames meds for weight

gain. In the end I couldn't walk because my legs were so swollen and there was fluid around my heart and lungs.

The ironic thing was that mentally I felt really good on it! That was Phenelzine (nardil) . I can see now that my

 problems were mostly caused by side effects and CT withdrawal that were taken as return of symptoms but I'm so glad I 

put my foot down and didn't carry on with the cocktails of AD/antipsychotic/mood stabiliser/benzo that I'd been given at one point.

Effexor is bad enough to withdraw from, I feel really sorry for everyone who has multiple drugs to get out of their system.

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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"Monica, some people really can’t handle the truth, make analytical choices or listen to debate precisely because of their mental illness. On the other hand, many can despite any mental illness. That is what makes balance in this field so difficult to achieve."

 

Ah yes...but it's funny you know how some of those same people can be told that they have a genetic condition which they will have to deal with the rest of their lives which will be fatal if they don't take the drugs prescribed for it, because those drugs are like insulin for diabetes. 

 

Because it's NOT SCARY AT ALL to be  told you have an incurable brain disease which will kill you unless you comply with treatment. 

 

Give me a break.

I am not a medical professional and nothing I say is a medical opinion or meant to be medical advice, please seek a competent and trusted medical professional to consult for all medical decisions.

 

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That mental health professional who claimed that people with "mental illness" can't make a fully informed choice greatly angers me and here is the reason why. The label is falsely applied to anyone who doesn't agree with the treatment.

 

And even if someone is floridly psychotic and unable to make one, once they are stabalized and in a position to do so, this discussion is never revisited.  In my opinion, they use that as a convenient excuse to permanently keep people on meds.

 

 

I think Dr. Breggin wrote that informed consent means continually revisiting any relevant issues to do with drugs while the person is on them or tapering.

I am not a medical professional and nothing I say is a medical opinion or meant to be medical advice, please seek a competent and trusted medical professional to consult for all medical decisions.

 

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Just a few days ago, I was watching a show segment on a topic completely unrelated to mental illness, and someone being interviewed went out of their way to point out that someone who has an untreated mental illness has no right to decide what happens to their body. It may be the case that there are people in extreme states who cannot reason well, but we are failing those people with half-truths and fatalistic prognoses. When the mental health system sees someone in an extreme condition, they want to control and shut down those symptoms. It comes down to having no alternative treatments available so we have to shove these people in a corner and numb them out.

Tapering Zoloft, Dec 2014

Started Lamictal

Re-started Zoloft mid-Oct 2014, 25-50mg

Stopped Zoloft end of Sept 2014

Started Zoloft July 2014, 50mg

Stopped Prozac from 3mg May 2014

Stopped Effexor Dec '13 Started 10mg Prozac

Reinstated Effexor 15mg on Nov 2013

Stopped from 21mg on Oct 2013
Effexor 112.5mg, since Dec 2012

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That mental health professional who claimed that people with "mental illness" can't make a fully informed choice greatly angers me and here is the reason why. The label is falsely applied to anyone who doesn't agree with the treatment.

 

And even if someone is floridly psychotic and unable to make one, once they are stabalized and in a position to do so, this discussion is never revisited.  In my opinion, they use that as a convenient excuse to permanently keep people on meds.

 

 

I think Dr. Breggin wrote that informed consent means continually revisiting any relevant issues to do with drugs while the person is on them or tapering.

 

Thanks for clarifying that. Well, I certainly never got that during my time on meds and while tapering. What a surprise. :rolleyes:  By the way, it would be interesting to know how many people on psych meds felt they did receive true informed consent.

 

CS

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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I am wondering if the justification of lying to patients occurs in other areas of medicine besides just psychiatry. For example, many sleep medicine doctors are very threatened by patients changing their own pap machine pressures even when their health has substantially improved. They claim that doing so will result in central apneas which will lead to death even though I have never seen a study that says this can happen.

 

Additionally, many doctors claim that people have to be on statins even when the evidence indicates differently and will use threats to coerce them to take the medication. I almost get the feeling that anything that threatenes a doctor's reality (whatever that is) is then used as justification to lie to patients.  Of course, it seems more extreme with people who have the misfortune to have the "MI" label but sadly, I don't think any area of medicine is exempt from this.

 

CS

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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