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Rhiannon

Thoughts of suicide

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Muddles

I agree with you Rhi....nobody can quite understand drug induced/withdrawal suicidle thoughts.

I worked in a hospital for a couple of years and I remember a young lady who had took an overdose. She had children and I just couldn't understand how anyone could think of doing such a thing. It disturbed me to think that a mother could leave her children. Fast forward 7 years and I was that person siting in a&e with the exact same thoughts....because of these flippin' drugs.

 

Everyday they are there - nobody understands this hell other than you guys. I'm not quite sure how to get over it but I'm slowly losing the will.

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hacilar

Thanks for this thread; I have had SI most of my life, I think.  I recall telling my mother (on ADs then) that I would probably meet my end by my own hand.  She had attempted suicide when I was a child-I belive now it was 'acting out' as I recall the neighbor being over and speaking to her through her closed bedroom door, saying things like, 'but you have so much to live for, your children...blah blah blah'.  She drank a bunch of alcohol and took some pills.  I come from a medical family (dad doc, mom, nurse, me nurse) that pills were just part of my mileu...so not a surprise that when I was hit with post-partum depression, and my friends urged me to 'take an antidepressant...' it was socially acceptable, and readily available.  Pill culture.

 

I struggle with SI now when the waves hit from d/cing Klonopin...and when a window happens, I notice that I just get invoved in small things that bring me joy, and don't think or obsess on the 'big picture' i.e. 200 species a day going extinct, the takeover of all aspects of life as we know it by the 1%, etc etc.

 

I guess it's good to know I'm not alone, but it really sucks that there are so many of us.

 

I do often wish the powers that be would just send me 'the black pill' because it seems that is what they want.

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NewMe

 

It is a known side effect of anti depressants but what puzzles me

is HOW can a pill make thoughts turn to suicide?  

This is something that I've wondered too. When I took Paxil for a short time, within just a few days I became absolutely obsessed with suicidal thoughts. It was so clearly the drug and I was really amazed and awed by the power of that pill.  That was actually the event that made me realize how powerful--and bad, at least for me--these drugs are, and started me exploring this path which has led me here today, tapering and withdrawing and trying to help other people in the same boat.

 

The only time in my life that I've been suicidal has been either while on ADs or in withdrawal from psych drugs.

 

I don't think anyone knows the answer to this, and I doubt we'll find out any time soon, since right now so much money is being poured into making sure people don't believe it.

 

I was constantly ruminating over everything negative and obsessed w suicide on Paxil, too.

 

Only when I went CT WD did I seek any tiny thing to hold on to life with. 

 

On the drug I wanted to die - off it I was terrified of death when I CT'd off Paxil. 

 

It's less and less as I move through Effexor WD - diff reaction on effexor. All I know is this is less disturbing for me than paxil

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Marie

This thread really moved along here just in the past few days. So after reading more of it, I thought about what has kept me from ever doing anything about my thoughts re SI.

First of all, I've actually never had them until I started taking klonopin (was on Xanax before) so even strong depression was a "new one" for me. Thus, plans or any following through was also completely new for me in the past 1.5 years.

When I've had my intermittent episodes of strong depression, I have reached out to my doctor. I really do like her, and I've found her to be very open minded about benzo sx and withdrawl methods. She doesn't pretend to use liquid titration (which is my preferred method), but she's not stood in my way and does recognize that I'm not one of those supposed "easy off" people. But her reaction to feeling depression is to immediately prescribe an AD which I have refused to take. I've had 3 "encounters" with her where this has come up in regards to depression.

My first one was by email where I actually considered an AD (as I did not realize the implications; this was about a year ago), and I then rejected my own idea because I have a past history (12-13 years ago) of not tolerating the side effects( extreme sleepiness and nausea) which never went away after several attempts to take several different ones.

My second encounter with her was last august 2013 where my attempts to taper were going nowhere, and one of my sx was SI. By then I had joined this forum where astute members recommended this hold, and she thought it was a very good idea. So at that point she made no other recommendations for any other meds-just holding.

My third encounter was on 5/13/14 which was an appointment that occurred after my depression episode. She did not make a strong attempt to put me on any AD because she quickly referred to my resistance that has been part of our ongoing relationship since first seeing her. So she gave me some samples of Deplin which is some new "food additive," and actually part of the B vitamin family, and an Rx for it if I wanted to try it. But I didn't use it, and I had since cycled out of that phase again and have not had it return. In fact, new, positive signs have once again come about, so I hope the depression on this hold may be done.

But throughout using klonopin, i have had to cope with varying degrees of depression so most of the time, I handled it myself. When it got really awful, I did get so totally overwhelmed as I said in my previous post, that I made warning type statements to my husband and eventually just ended up in my bedroom trying to calm myself. And often these times would lead to bouts of crying and crying that I think probably helped me. I'm not one to cry very easily, but I'm also not one to "suffer in silence" once I reach a certain point. So my talking to my husband and even the warning type of talk probably helped (although I know it upset him which was not my intention, but I was thinking about me), and when these times reached the crying level, I think it just let me "get it all out" plus it wore me out.

So again, I would distract myself by watching tv, and eventually calm down, and then get ready for bed, and often just fall asleep watching it. As I say, I do hope that part is done for the remainder of this hold. The taper will be another story that I cannot predict, but I'm hoping that by tapering slowly, I can avoid any severe depressive episodes.

Marie

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Marie

I just thought again "what does make me push on?" Well, I do think about this also when I have gotten "to that point."

 

I have a pretty supportive and fairly close family, but they've recognized my thought process and been concerned at these times. At the same time, I've been able to feel how all this would impact them also, and being the "too or very responsible" type, those thoughts have "given me pause."

 

Also, I am so busy most of the time, that I've kind of "soldiered" through some of this because my responsibility level is so high, it's really a big distraction that I have to follow through with many tasks whether I want to or not.

 

And I do find that sometimes this has also helped change my mood along with simply getting out of the house either by necessity or because I forced myself to go out and run errands or go to a movie.

 

Marie

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mammaP

Bumping for BTDT

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alex

Aside with suicide thoughts, I have these obsessive thoughts about death: who died, when, why, at what age...etc.Very weird and scary.

It has gotten better;they are not so strong now.

Anyone can relate to this?

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Barbarannamated

Aside with suicide thoughts, I have these obsessive thoughts about death: who died, when, why, at what age...etc.Very weird and scary.

It has gotten better;they are not so strong now.

Anyone can relate to this?

Yes, I do. Very strong.

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WinningThrough

I'm feeling the need to post here today. I don't really know what I'm going to say, so I will just let the words flow.

 

I'm so frightened. 14 months of constant severe suicidal ideation is no joke. I know in my case it's because I had an adverse reaction to citalopram and that akathisia goes hand in hand with suicidal thoughts. I know my med history, although short, is terrible with adverse reactions, kindling, cold turkeys and severe withdrawal. I can't expect anything else really but it's been going on so long.

 

I don't know how to find the strength to keep going. I know I have to but how? I've never had a real window but I certainly get waves. I'm in my 5th month drug free and I've been in the mother of all waves for about 7 weeks now, I think. I don't know what to do. I don't know how to fight this. I'm going out of my mind.

 

I've tried SO hard for so long. I've tried distraction and I still try distraction, not that anything whatsover ever distracts me. I force myself to go out sometimes. I talk on the phone. I occasionally see a friend here and there when I can manage it. I've had reiki but that's too much for me right now. I semi watch the tv. I've done meditations which are very difficult with akathisia. I play games on my iPad. I try, try, try, try.

 

The terror is constant and terrible. The movement part of akathisia (voluntary but almost involuntary in its nature due to feeling I HAVE to move) is constant and terrible.

 

I can't risk taking any drugs. I am sorely tempted at times to take benzos but my dance with ativan didn't go well. It went great to start with and I got relief. Until the drug turned on me. I really think that any benzo I took now would blow my brains out.

 

I know the only real solution to this is time, time, time. Time and remaining drug free. Doing whatever I can to get through each moment, to get through each day until it starts to get better.

 

I guess I'm looking for reassurance again that this constant state of terror and suicidality will lessen at some point until life becomes bearable and liveable. It's terrifying that the akathisia is constant like this. With others, it seems to come and go. With me, it's there all the time.

 

I'm frightened out of my wits at this point. I know no one can do anything for me. I know that. I just need to reach out.

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alex

I know exactly the feeling.

I have been there.And 27 months after my last dose of Efexxor, all the awful dark thoughts are fading away almost completely.

For a very long time I had these obsessive thoughts about death 24/7.Now they are gone.

At 5 months off you are in early w/d I'm afraid.

Patience,courage, and faith, and you will make it;just like all the rest of us in this terrible journey.

 

Hang in there, it gets better.

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WinningThrough

Thank you Alex. I appreciate your help and I appreciate you.

 

I've made it this far so I can't give up now!

 

You've done so well. You're a real inspiration to me.

 

You're almost there and you're right, in my 5th month, I'm in the worst of it. I can't and won't give up.

 

Thank you.

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Petunia

 I know my med history, although short, is terrible with adverse reactions, kindling, cold turkeys and severe withdrawal. I can't expect anything else really but it's been going on so long.

 

 

I think you are very sensitive to medications, so I'm sure that in time you will recover if you stay away from drugs.  I'm thinking that the propranolol may have caused this recent wave and perhaps you have only been drug free for just over a month if you take that into consideration.

 

I was still really bad at 1 month out and 5 months, but started to notice some slight improvement at about 8 months.  We all recover in time by not adding/increasing/changing drugs and by taking good care of ourselves.  Hang on through each day and let time pass and slowly, whether we notice it or not, it starts to get better.

 

I like you attitude of realizing how far you have come and being determined not to give up.

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WinningThrough

Thanks Petu. I haven't taken anything since the propranolol.

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degen12

For me anhedonia is a major driver of suicidal ideation. In my case, anhedonia usually co-occurs with emotional blunting. When my favourite song comes on and I just feel like clicking the next button, then I start to think of suicide in a very matter of fact way. Like "*ugh*, what a god damn bother, another ******* day?. Then I can't be bothered to do anything, including making any plans for suicide.

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Muddles

Degan - this is exactly what I feel. Christmas is making me suicidal but I just can't be arsed to do it because apathy is massive! You couldn't make this stuff up!

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simon

Ive had suicidal ideation probably for the first few weeks of November. Then I reached a sort of plateau (window?)  and the thoughts evaporated.

Its a very strange condition. in my case its generated by the need for relief of your symptoms which are intolerable and the mind just goes off on one. I must say, that planning a way out which I thought pretty painless and doable, was quite a relief and felt like taking responsibility for my own destiny.

 

When my kids were young and I used to get depression, that was an enormous factor in not taking action, but as I get older the option has seemed more of a possibility.

 

I know what I am describing is what happens to the mind in extreme turmoil and its probably not rational. But I can totally  empathize with people who get into that mindset.

Strangely, as you get a little lift, the feelings go. And that's quite disconcerting, as, I wouldn't be here posting today if not for little chance events that frustrated my plans.

 

If you go talking to non-depressed people about such matters, they find it distressing, and I must say its odd to talk about it in this non-passionate way. But that's just one odd thing that the brain does and cant be denied. Its partly fantasy, but partly a way of getting a break from your symptoms. But im not recommending taking it any further that that!

 

Simon

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ikam

I wake up with suicidal thoughts again, some of them turn into vivid visualisations. I think in WD everything just gets stronger, sharper...

I have had suicidal thoughts since I was around 14 years old. I was not on medication that time, but my family was rather disfunctional. I was depressed there and then, but still coping. My sucidal thoughts were something like "coping", as I kept thinking that if things would get worse...

I saw my father few times trying to kill himself...

 

When I was 23 years old I was hospitalised as I was considered as highly suicidal (was I really?). And this was the time when I was put on medication, first doxepin, then haloperidol, then some antipsychotic medication.

A friend told me to get out of hospital to live with her...thankfully, I was not offered insulin treatment (one of the older methods)...

My suicidal thoughts have been with me all my life...

 

I have had them now, very vivid pictures. I am tired of my life, but do I want to die? I told myself that "if things will get worse"...I am so unsure how this WD will go? Will I get any, more unmanageable symptoms? Will I be able to start working soon (i must!)...

 

For me, suicidal thoughts and urges are sign that I feel enraged at something I feel powerless about. I am powerless about what has happened to me since I was put on meds and earlier. I feel angry with people who did not offer me enough information, who kept promissing that I will get better, who put me on double antidepressant and did not give any information about drug interactions, etc.

As I cannot get angry with them, I turn it against myself and it comes out as suicidal thoughts, vivid pictures...

 

I don't know if what I wrote makes sense...

 

Somebody told me about the concept of retroflection, when the energy cannot be discharged outside it turns inside. Sometimes it may be some phisical illness, other times, suicidal ideation...

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Skylarblue75

This has been everyday for me for the past 30 months, never had it before taking an a/d, never had it while taking celexa for 10 years. But now it's everyday. I'm a mess off meds and with every multiple attempt to go back on meds. I've tried several times in he past 30 months to take my life, never in my life have I ever tried or had nonstop thoughts to do so. Right now I'm 8 months off lexapro and a 2 year off benzo rapid detox survivor. I'm so scared my life will never be the same ever. I just want to be a mommy to my 3 little boys

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LoveandLight

Suicidal thoughts for about week and half constant with very bad depression. It seems to be a symptom of the depression rather than as a result. But I've dealt with this for years certainly since I've been on meds and off then on again.

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LoveandLight

So sorry skylerblue, it must be terrible for you. Xx

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SelmaLady

I am there now -- horrible akathisia does that to me.  I can completely relate to Winning.  And along with the akathisia are ever increasing visual abnormalities.  And I have NEVER tried to get off of an a/d ---  but my system is acting like I  c/t'd the Zoloft I've been taking for over 20 years.  So I don't even know what to expect.  And I still have to taper two a/d's.  I am beyond terror and I am compelled to want to end this NOW, today.  But ...  my kids do not deserve to carry the pain .  It is anguish to be in this place of so great a need to end the pain and so great a need to protect ..

 

I just don't know how to survive in this.  I can't distract with such intense akathisia.  The fact that I am typing this is a testament to my determination to sit and do it.  So I'll go pace on a porch that feels as though it is the size of a small platform and look at trees that smothering me in unreality.  And hope that somehow I will get to a better place. 

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LoveandLight

I hope so too, selmalady.

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sunflower

Dear Fellow Survivors:

 

So thankful that suicidal ideations which are such a prevalent symptom when starting or tapering anti-anxiety meds or AD's is allowed to be discussed on this site.

 

I remember when I was poly-drugged by a homeopathic psychiatrist in NYC (Zoloft increased from 100 mgs to 200 mgs in a matter of weeks, Klonopin and Remeron added to mix.. I thought about suicide everyday! The thoughts started vanishing the more I tapered the K and Remeron.

 

Sunflower

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LoveandLight

All consuming SI at the moment, horrific.

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ten0275

Joannad, hey.

 

I'm sorry you are being enveloped by SI. I know you know it passes, though the moment is suffering immense.

 

Hang in there. Thank you for being such a wonderful presence on this site. Thinking of you.

 

Dave

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Ssriwarrior

Sending love to all those who are suffering. I never had a suicidal thought until I started taking antidepressants, but they were passive while on SSRIs. When trying to taper it has unleashed full on active SI. And it's mainly centered around how I don't think I can live like this for years. Too miserable and just want the pain to end. Not rational but also impossible to think about living this way the rest of my life and being a burden to those that love me.

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LoveandLight

Thanks Dave and ssri warrior. And thank you Dave for your presence also.

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degen12

I found this quote in an old video game I used to play and I find it very moving and motivating for me to continue on with my journey. Probably because I was attached to the character in the game and it was so epically presented. Here it is:

 

"Now! This is it! Now's the time to choose! Die and be free of pain, or live and fight your sorrow! Now's the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!"

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mycatzara

It's good to read about other people's experiences, because one of the major problems I had with an otherwise great psychiatrist was that he just didn't want to talk about suicidal ideation and how to manage it, particularly when it was ongoing. I've also found a tendency for docs, especially gp (primary care) physicians to lump all SI in one basket, whereas in my experience there is a whole spectrum, all of which mean different things at different times. They don't seem to ask the right questions, and both panic unnecessarily at some points and don't push harder when they should at others, and so completely misinterpret the actual risk. 

For me, one type of suicidal ideation is just a generally increased awareness of suicide eg in news articles, tv shows; another is anxiety about hypothetical situations where my life becomes intolerable and thinking about what I would do; there is also thinking/planning in abstract without any feeling of wanting to die, almost a mental game; actively wanting to end things but being scared I'll fail and end up damaged (in my work I've seen some nasty long term results of failed attempts); and being past even caring whether it works or not. I know that even the first of these is a warning sign for me and I take care to monitor that it is not progressing, but my withdrawal symptoms often include the first three examples without going any further and subside with time, so I'm reluctant to bring them up in case the doc overreacts. 

 

The other, really dangerous type of SI for me is the times when I've thought about or made concrete preparations for an attempt - truly believing that I don't actually want to kill myself now, but they'll be ready if I feel that way down the track. If a doc asks if I feel like killing myself I can honestly say no, and without appreciating the nuances they just tick the mental box of "not suicidal" and don't go on to ask if I've made any preparations, and so a dangerous situation is completely missed. 

Balancing self-monitoring with external monitoring is tricky, and I'm still working on it.

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SelmaLady

Read something on DNA damage on site here and am now w/o hope.  I continue to get worse and worse so have to believe that my brain is not capable of coming out of a severe dysregulation.  I am not like anyone else because this happened from using a nasal spray while on Zoloft.  I am trying so hard to keep going each day knowing that every 4 days my visual perception will shrink and with that horrendous DR/DP .  The unreality is unbearable and I think only of leaving because I can't get through this.  My husband has to devote his whole life to keeping me alive each day.  I want so much to stay and not bring pain to my family but the pull to end this horror grows stronger with each increase in the intensity of my symptoms.  I just can't find a way to do it w/o risking further brain damage that would leave my husband and family to take care of me.  I pray continually that God will keep me from acting on this deep need to be released from this agony .

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LoveandLight

(((Selmalady))))) I'm so so sorry. Did you try and see a neurologist? Xx

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SelmaLady

No--no neurologist,  This started with the Afrin exposure and I had an MRI after my suicide attempt then and it was normal.  I worked for neurologists and I know that all they can measure is structural change, not cellular which is what I have.  I've lost all hope.

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LoveandLight

So sad for you that you feel this way. ((Selmalady)))

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Catalyzt

Mycat-- thanks so much for that post.  This reminds me of how I felt during my own episodes of SI, which were unrelated to SSRIs, but had that same weird detachment you discussed.  Like, "I don't really want to kill myself, I just have this loaded gun in my mouth / am driving 100 miles per hour (etc., fill in the blank) because I want to see what it feels like."

 

bullsh*t, of course I was suicidal, I just had kind of tricked myself into thinking I wasn't, similar to what you describe, though a bit different.  And I wll remember to try to assess for this, when I finally get back into practice.  I think I would ask a different kind of question, like, "Have you ever found yourself doing things that were suicidal without intending to, or making plans for a hypothetical way of hurting yourself if circumstances changed?" 

 

Selma, I am so sorry to hear of your distress.  I have some profound cognitive and mental changes sometimes due to an autoimmune problem (mostly disassociation) and I used to wonder how I could continue, because these will get worse with time.  But what helps me is direct interpersonal contact with other people-- basically, looking into someone's eyes, preferably in a group of people, until the mirror neurons fire up and jolt me with a big whack of... something, probably testosterone and oxytocin and dopamine.  It's just that feeling that SOMEthing is working the way it should that makes me feel better, that's what helped during PSSD-- very intense relational experiences.  They seemed to reset things somehow.  I don't know if it would work for akathisia, but it might be worth trying.

 

Also, when I am around other people a lot, they don't treat me like I'm weird.  They have no idea I feel like I'm in a cloud, or if my sensory perception is wildly altered.  I stop thinking of myself as damaged in somewhere along the way. 

 

I don't believe in the "permanent damage" model anymore than I believe in the "chemical imbalance" model.  It just hasn't been my experience-- and, if you give it time, perhaps it won't be yours.

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AliG

I know this is an old topic  but Barbara and Starlitegirlx , I can relate. Some days you just have to get through.

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AliG

How do you know , what symptoms are you, and what is the drug, or a lifetime of drugs!!!

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