Brunz: Why is it so hard the second (or third) time around

[brunz]

Hi, I am so happy to have found this site.  I started taking zoloft in July of 2011 at 25 mg and worked up to 100 mg by early October.  I had developed chronic nausea following "routine" gall bladder surgery and the only treatments offered were anti-psychotic meds or antidepressents.  The nausea and other symptoms had also left me depressed so  I chose the antidepressents.  For about 3 weeks in October of 2011 things were great; no more nausea and no more depression.  Then zoloft side effects began but I stuck with it because the nausea was still gone.  In December, however, the drug itself started to make me nauseous and by February I had started gradually tapering.  I got down to 4 mg by late July of 2012 and was ready to to discontinue when I developed chronic pain due to another bit of "routine" surgery. 

 

Unfortunately, I decided I couldn't face the pain without an antidepressent so I started lexapro gradually working up to a maximum of 16 mg in early November.  By then the side effects had set in again and I began tapering off on January 1, 2013, getting down to 4/10 of an mg by the end of February, with no side effects.  My doctor and I figured it was safe to stop completely.  Wrong again.  I went through 3 really bad weeks with pretty much every withdrawal symptom in the book except for brain zaps.  Each night I'd think that things would get better the next day, but eventually I had to stop because if anything the symptoms were only getting worse.  Going back to 4/10 of an mg didn't stop the symptoms so I went to 4 mg and again worked down more slowly this time to 4/10 again, but when I went to 2/10 the whole thing started again.

 

At that point I made another poor decision.  I decided that because I had gotten down to only 4 mg of zoloft in 2012 that I'd replace the lexapro with 20 mg of zoloft and start down again.  I dropped 1 mg per week from 20 mg down to 10 mg with no problems.  Then when I went from 10 to 9, I started getting dizzy so after 3 days I went back to 10.  Sad to say after about 10 days the dizziness was just getting worse so I jumped back up to 13 mg for no particular scientific reason other than it was higher than 10 and my doctors really had nothing better to offer.  That was on July 10.  The dizziness got better but never went away completely so I didn't want to risk dropping any further until it did.  Now its getting worse again so I have no idea what to do.

 

I look forward to reading about the experiences of other members and hearing from anyone with similar experience.

[Jemima]

Hello, Brunz.  It looks to me like your current and past problems may be due to tapering too fast and tapering too large a percentage at the lower end of your tapers.  Here are two topics I think might be helpful:

 

Why Taper By 10% of My Dosage?

 

Tips for Tapering Off Zoloft

 

Also, when you have a chance, please put your drug history in your signature like this:

 

How To Add Your Drug History To Your Signature

 

Without knowing more, it's difficult to advise on what to do, but I'd guess that it would be best if you stay right where you are with the Zoloft dosage.  You've been through a lot of changes with Lexapro and Zoloft and your central nervous system needs to stabilize.  Changing drugs and changing doses as soon as you have an uncomfortable symptom just makes the situation worse.  There is likely nothing that will make you feel normal again immediately, so hang in there.  It can take a very long time to get off antidepressants comfortably.

 

I went off Lexapro too fast in December of 2011 and I'm not completely over withdrawal yet.  The symptoms lessen over time, but don't go away altogether for months to years. 

 

Welcome to the forum.  You'll find lots of solid information and friendly support here.

 

 

 

 

[basildev]

Hi Brunz,

 

welcome to the forum.

 

I agree with Jemima, I think your CNS is probably struggling due to all the changes in medication, and what it needs now is some consistency.

 

Be kind to yourself and let your system stabilize. It might take a while but you will get there.

[brunz]

I'm reposting a copy of my original post since I didn't include a topic in the title which may have made it a bit difficult to know what my problem is.  Essentially as you will see below I had no problem dropping from 80 mg of zoloft to 4 over the course of June and July of 2012.  I did not stop completely because I was afraid of dealing with a new chronic pain condition without the aid of a drug so I started lexapro.  Big mistake.  No one told me it would prove much harder to get off SSRI's the longer you are on them, although it makes perfect sense now that I have been forced to think about it. 

 

Anyway without the benefit of this site and the 10% per month rule it recommends I gave up efforts to get off lexapro and went to 20 mg of zoloft, going down 1mg per week down to 10 mg without problems.  Then the bottom fell out.

 

The answer to my question is probably somewhere in the accumulatoin of knowledge and experience on this site, but I'm hoping someone will have mercy on a newbie and point me in the right direction.  When going back from 9 to 10 mg didn't bring relief I went back to 13 mg thinking that would do the trick.  After all, I had gone from 13 to 12 to 11 to 10 with no problems only a few weeks earlier.  Now I have been at 13 mg all of July, I'm still dizzy and the zoloft is starting to make my nauseous which is very bad since dealing with chronic nausea is the reason I started on these miserable drugs.  What the heck is going on in my head that explains this change after such a short period of time??  Thanks for any help you can give me.  I know it won't change where I'm at now, but I'm curious.

 

Original post follows.

 

Hi, I am so happy to have found this site.  I started taking zoloft in July of 2011 at 25 mg and worked up to 100 mg by early October.  I had developed chronic nausea following "routine" gall bladder surgery and the only treatments offered were anti-psychotic meds or antidepressents.  The nausea and other symptoms had also left me depressed so  I chose the antidepressents.  For about 3 weeks in October of 2011 things were great; no more nausea and no more depression.  Then zoloft side effects began but I stuck with it because the nausea was still gone.  In December, however, the drug itself started to make me nauseous and by February I had started gradually tapering.  I got down to 4 mg by late July of 2012 and was ready to to discontinue when I developed chronic pain due to another bit of "routine" surgery.

 

Unfortunately, I decided I couldn't face the pain without an antidepressent so I started lexapro gradually working up to a maximum of 16 mg in early November.  By then the side effects had set in again and I began tapering off on January 1, 2013, getting down to 4/10 of an mg by the end of February, with no side effects.  My doctor and I figured it was safe to stop completely.  Wrong again.  I went through 3 really bad weeks with pretty much every withdrawal symptom in the book except for brain zaps.  Each night I'd think that things would get better the next day, but eventually I had to stop because if anything the symptoms were only getting worse.  Going back to 4/10 of an mg didn't stop the symptoms so I went to 4 mg and again worked down more slowly this time to 4/10 again, but when I went to 2/10 the whole thing started again.

 

At that point I made another poor decision.  I decided that because I had gotten down to only 4 mg of zoloft in 2012 that I'd replace the lexapro with 20 mg of zoloft and start down again.  I dropped 1 mg per week from 20 mg down to 10 mg with no problems.  Then when I went from 10 to 9, I started getting dizzy so after 3 days I went back to 10.  Sad to say after about 10 days the dizziness was just getting worse so I jumped back up to 13 mg for no particular scientific reason other than it was higher than 10 and my doctors really had nothing better to offer.  That was on July 10.  The dizziness got better but never went away completely so I didn't want to risk dropping any further until it did.  Now its getting worse again so I have no idea what to do.

 

I look forward to reading about the experiences of other members and hearing from anyone with similar experience.

 

Started zoloft in July of 2011 at 25 mg, gradually working up to 100mg by October.  Due to side effects started gradual titration in late February of 2012 and was down to 4 mg using liquid by early August.  Unfortunately, decided to try lexapro and got up to 16 mg by December of 2012. Started titrating down January 1, 2013 and got down to 4/10 of mg.  When stopped altogether however 3 weeks of miserable withdrawal side effects.  Went back to 4 mg and started down again, but once again could get below 4/10 of mg.  Tried going back to 20 mg of zoloft and went down 1 mg a week with no problems until I went from 10 to 9.  Back to dizziness, lethargy and strange feelings in lower legs despite having gone fact to 10 after only 3 days and then back to 13 three weeks ago.

 

[Altostrata]

Brunz, I made your latest post a continuation of your Intro topic as it discusses your particular situation.

 

The reason you're not getting predictable results from changes in dosage is because your nervous system is changing. This is why we recommend a steady, gradual decrease. The nervous system thrives on stability. Once it gets unstable, it can get sensitized to things it wasn't sensitive to before.

[brunz]

I appreciate the replies I've received and your words of welcome.  As you are all too well aware I am stuck between the proverbial rock and a hard place.  The reason I am getting off the zoloft is that it served the purpose of eliminating my chronic nausea and because of its side effects.  The most troublesome at this point are the nausea caused by the drug and the sleep problems.  I sleep all night but it is not restful sleep so I wake up tired and stay tired until I go to bed.  Frankly the nausea will be the decisive factor.  I have learned over the last two plus years that I cannot tolerate anti-nausea meds for one reason or another so I am left with sucking on peppermint candy and taking ginger capsules and ginger tea.  They all help but they gradually lose their effectiveness over time on a given dose of zoloft.  It seems that while my brain wants the status quo for awhile my gut is way past ready to be done with the effects the zoloft is having on it. 

 

I think there is no doubt that you are all correct that my CNS wants some rest so I will stick with the current dose of zoloft for as long as I can.  I can't even begin the one month countdown yet because although some days I have no dizziness, like yesterday, some days I still do, like today.  Still confused as to how I got to 10 mg with no problem but am now dizzy on 13, but then it appears I am not alone in that respect.  All my doctors can do is shrug their shoulders and offer their sympathy.

 

One last question.  I have seen personal accounts online and recommendations from some doctors on seemingly reputable websites as well about taking one or two doses of prosac as a way around this problem due to its long half-life which results in a sort of natural titration.  Anyone with experience or thoughts on this?  I am so desparate to be off these drugs I would take any reasonable chance to get there but obviously don't want to prolong the whole ordeal even longer by starting down another deadend.  Thanks again for your help and understanding.  I wish none of us were dealing with this but it is a comfort to talk to people who understand what I am experiencing.  It's really difficult to explain to people who haven't including doctors who think this sort of problem doesn't really exist.

 

 

[Altostrata]

Switching to Prozac sometimes works and sometimes doesn't, incurring additional risks over a direct taper from Zoloft.

[brunz]

Altostrata

 

Thanks for your reply.  Looks like risks no matter which way I go and the last couple of days my nausea from sticking at 13 mg of the zoloft for over a month is really starting to ramp up.  Going to have to try dropping a mg of the zoloft pretty soon despite continuing dizziness or try the Prozac route.  Also possible that my continuing dizziness may actually be a side effect of the zoloft itself rather than the taper. Too many questions.  Wish I'd found this site before I dropped from 10 mg to 9 and realized how lucky I'd been and held in place for a month before dropping again.  I really do hate these drugs and the lack of good information out there from the so-called professionals. 

[brunz]

Just a follow up to my post of two weeks ago.  Still sticking it out at 13 mg despite the nausea.  Problem is that while dizziness about the same, restless leg-like feelings, lethargy, general jitteriness and the dreaded flu-like symptoms getting worse.  Is this to be expected or is it a sign of my system having become overly sensitized to the drug to the point no amount of waiting is going to help?   I read in another post that if that happens it may be necessary to drop the dose immediately, possibly completely.  How does one tell whether this is the case and if so, how much to drop.  Also, what sort of new adventures in drug induced misery can I expect if I do fall into this category and drop my dosage? 

[Altostrata]

Keep notes on paper of your daily symptom pattern. This can indicate what the problem is.

[brunz]

I'll do that.  Is there another post somewhere or a website you can recomment that tells me what to make of the data I gather with respect to this question? Hate to be a pest but I feel like it's useless talking about any of this to any of the doctors I've seen.  I'm still sort of in the denial stage where I can't quite wrap my head around the idea that pretty much everything they told me is wrong and that it is going to take so long to get off this junk.  Thanks.

[brunz]

Don't know if it's important but somehow forgot to mention fact that abdominal pain getting noticiable worse too.  This got so bad the first time on zoloft that I ended in up in ER where they treated me for ulcers I did not have.

[Rhiannon]

Brunz, if it's any help, given the history you describe in your sig line I would not expect things to have settled down yet.  At some point all the changes we make even with the best of intentions just destabilize things further. Given your history I wouldn't find it unusual for it to take you a few months to stabilize.

 

Meanwhile, if you do develop serious medical symptoms, you do need to get them checked out, because withdrawal can cause so many kinds of problems with so many parts of the body that it can mask some other kind of problem. Usually it turns out there's nothing wrong but withdrawal, but once in a while I've seen people turn out to have some other medical problem, so it's best to go ahead and get it checked out.

[brunz]

Rhi

 

Thanks for the follow up and believe me I hear what you are saying.  The problem is that the longer I stay at a given dose of zoloft the more nauseous I feel and at some point that will become the point of decision.  In addition to the chronic nausea I have chronic rectal pain thanks to "routine" surgery and the only anti-nausea med I can tolerate is Zofran which as you may know causes constipation.  So, I can roll the dice on being able to deal with stronger dizziness and bizarre feelings in my legs, which so far are my only withdrawal effects,  or I can start what might be months of really terrible pain while I try to balance the effect of the zofran with something like Miralax.  It's a lose-lose situation and frankly I don't think I can wait months before I even start tapering again under those circumstances.  I'll hold out as long as I can and hope for a miracle.  Thanks again for your reply.

[Rhiannon]

I hear you--you're in a very tough situation. I'm so sorry. It's one of the most difficult things to work with--having a bad reaction to a drug but having bad withdrawal from it as well. Very challenging to figure out how to approach that situation.  I wish I could reach out and help you in some way. I know it must be hell.

 

I think what Alto would probably say would be, try a small reduction and see if it helps. I would add, wait a while after, because often when people are in your kind of situation they do get some improvement from a small reduction, so they reduce more, and then it's too much and the withdrawal symptoms get worse and outweigh the improvement from the reduction. 

 

I'm sorry, it's just tricky, no way around it.

[Altostrata]

brunz, if you have notes of your symptom pattern and when you take your medications, sometimes you can see if a symptom is a side effect of a drug because it occurs X hours after you take it. If it seems the Zoloft is causing this, it would make sense to reduce the Zoloft.

 

You may be in a situation, as some people here are, where you need to go off Zoloft at a faster rate to dodge the adverse effects -- and endure withdrawal symptoms.

 

It could be drug interactions as well, see the Drug Interactions Checker http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html

 

You've got so much going on with your health, it's impossible to tell what might help.

[brunz]

Thanks to you both for your replies.  The system checker was interesting with respect to the dizziness.  I have taken gabapentin for many years for restless leg problems while I sleep.  I have also taken tamsulosin for an even longer period of time for prostate issues.  Finally, I am taking 150 mg of lyrica a day for the pain. All these things can work together to increase the dizziness that is a potential side effect of each of them.  Sometimes I wonder if doctors ever look at what is already on the med list before they prescribe something new.  All my docs are in the same clinic which is totally computerized so no excuse there.  I really can't blame it on them though.  Two of the drugs I have taken for years without any interaction issues and in 2011 I was up to 100 mg of zoloft with no dizziness.  The only really new part of the puzzle is the lyrica which I really don't think does much for me but I was so desparate for some relief from my pain last year I'd have contacted a witch doctor if someone said it had helped them.  Looks like a witch doctor might have been safer.  The other problem with blaming lyrica is that I have been taking that since last summer with no dizziness problems until I dropped from 10mg to 9 mg of zoloft back on June 29.  So things seem to point to my fast withdrawal from zoloft as the culprit, although as Alto points out there are just too many variables here to be really cerain about anything,   I just had no idea I was going too fast.  Last summer I dropped off zoloft at a much faster rate with no problems.  I actually thought 1mg a week for 20 weeks was really slow.  The weird leg problems seem to have virtually disappeared over the last several days and the dizziness does seem to be easing a bit so I will hang on at this level unless the nausea just becomes too much.  It too has eased up a bit the last week so I have caught a break there.  Seeing my neurologist tomorrow to talk about the pain issue and I'll see what she has to say about the drug interactions.  Under the circumstances do you still think it makes sense to get off the zoloft before trying to get off the lyrica?  Thanks again.

[Altostrata]

All of those drugs, which act on the nervous system, require tapering.

 

Combining multiple psychoactive drugs leads to unpredictable results over time. The effects of the combinations can change as the nervous system adapts. Changing dosages of any one can affect the action of the others.

 

For example, Zoloft may have an activating effect on you. Reducing the Zoloft may have increased the more sedative effects of gabapentin and Lyrica.

 

Lyrica is a cousin of gabapentin. Prescribing both together is drug overkill. Furthermore, your "restless legs," even your pain, may be related to low magnesium or potassium. Many people here find magnesium to help with a host of symptoms because our diets tend to be deficient in it.

 

It's best for general health to absolutely minimize the overall drug burden. This is something doctors used to understand but have forgotten.

 

As they affect GABA, like benzos, Lyrica and gabapentin can be tricky to quit. To taper Lyrica: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2381-tips-for-tapering-off-lyrica-pregabalin/

 

Please list ALL your drugs in your signature so we can understand your situation. See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

(Also, please add paragraph breaks to your posts, for easier readability. Thanks.)

[Skyler]

Furthermore, your "restless legs," even your pain, may be related to low magnesium or potassium. Many people here find magnesium to help with a host of symptoms because our diets tend to be deficient in it.

 

Count me as one of those folks.. I am now tapering the requip I was taking to control RLS... magnesium does the trick!

[annelle]

I second that.

 

I have reduced my use of pramipexole for restless legs syndrome considerably since i started taking magnesium citrate. I have not had to take any pramipexole for 3-4 weeks now. Wonderful!

[brunz]

Alto, Skyler & Annelle

 

Thanks for your replies.  I will add my other meds to my signature as soon as I figure out again how to modify the signature.  In the meantime a listing here.  Sorry about the long notes without breaks.  I'll add them from now on.

 

(1) I've been taking the gabapentin for "restless legs" for well over 10 years.   During the course of a sleep study it was determined that my brain was  sending weak signals to my legs while I slept.  They weren't strong enough to make my legs actually move but were strong enough to wake my brain sufficiently to interfer with my sleep. The doctor who did the study checked my magnesium and potassium levels before he prescribed any drug and both were normal.  I also had them checked earlier this year and they continue to be normal. 

 

(2) The lyrica was added last year to deal with my chronic rectal pain which began following surgery.  I had to cut back on the gabapentin from 900 mg to 700 mg to accomodate 150 mg of lyrica because any larger combination of the two make me nauseous.  At the time, the pain was excruciating and I would have tried anything.  The lyrica didn't help that much at 150 mg, but twice when I stopped it - after only short taperings - the pain became worse so I stuck with it. 

 

(3)  If I had been a bit braver or knew what I knew now I would have stopped the original zoloft prescription last summer.  I'd dropped 76 mg in 8 weeks and was down to 4 mg and likely could have stopped altogether.  That was when the pain hit full force however and I went with my doctor's recommendation to start another antidepressant.  Bad move.

 

(4)  Finally, I am on 1mg of clonazepam for my nausea prescribed by my GI doc.  I started that two months ago.  I was on .5 mg for about a year and a half ending last summer.  Once again, at that time I was able to taper to zero in only two weeks.  Now with the addition of lyrica to the mix and another year with at least some ssri in my brain, who knows how long it will take to get off of that.

 

(5) So, now I am scared to death.  I'm 63 years old.  Even if I could start tapering the zoloft again today, I would then have the lyrica and clonazepam to deal with.  I'll be nearly 70 before I'm finished if the whole process doesn't kill me first.  Nothing for it but to keep dealing with it as best I can, but this wasn't exaclty how I envisioned my golden years.

[Altostrata]

I'm very sorry you're left to make difficult decisions about your drugs. You may wish to look at our list of doctors knowledgeable about tapering here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/988-recommended-doctors-therapists-or-clinics/

 

There is one in Illinois.

 

It still may be that magnesium supplementation will help with the "restless legs."

 

The Tapering section contains tips for tapering each of your drugs.

[Skyler]

(2) The lyrica was added last year to deal with my chronic rectal pain which began following surgery.  I had to cut back on the gabapentin from 900 mg to 700 mg to accomodate 150 mg of lyrica because any larger combination of the two make me nauseous.  At the time, the pain was excruciating and I would have tried anything.  The lyrica didn't help that much at 150 mg, but twice when I stopped it - after only short taperings - the pain became worse so I stuck with it.

 

(5) So, now I am scared to death.  I'm 63 years old.  Even if I could start tapering the zoloft again today, I would then have the lyrica and clonazepam to deal with.  I'll be nearly 70 before I'm finished if the whole process doesn't kill me first.  Nothing for it but to keep dealing with it as best I can, but this wasn't exaclty how I envisioned my golden years.

 

Lyrica causes rebound pain, and it's possible this is what you were experiencing, as opposed to the original pain for which it was prescribed.  I had rebound, when I could get off quickly that is... the fibro pain for which I was taking Lyrica would amplify for 2 to 3 weeks.

 

I'm 65, and hope to be off by the time I hit 70! There are a number of us on here who are in our 60s.  Probably has something to do with meds being more difficult to get off as we get older... I don't think this is because of an age related effect per se, more because we have longer drug histories.

 

Skyler

[brunz]

Well at least the lyrica isn't causing any obvious side effects for now like the nausea associated with my zoloft. If that continues to be true tapering off the lyrica over 4 years or so should just be a matter of time.  Fortunately I have learned it comes in a liquid too. 

 

The big thing is getting off the zoloft and waiting until its safe to start tapering that is so difficult.  Patience has never been my strong suit, especially when it comes to my health but I've been doing mindfulness meditation for a couple of months now and it is definitely a help. 

 

Wtih respect to the magnesium, I tried adding a supplement last summer that I had used in 2011 when I had delayed gastric emptying, since your diet is really restricted with that condition.  Unfortunately now that I'm back on a normal diet, the additional magnesium made me - you guessed it - nauseous.  I have read that this is sometimes a result of too much magnesium in your system so that doesn't seem to be an option for me.

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply and for your understanding. 

[brunz]

I'm pretty new to the site but read enought to know and understand why you recommend tapering the antidepressant first. But being the contrary sort of person I am I have a question about possible exceptions.

 

In addition to the 13 mg of zoloft I have been holding at since mid-July I am also on 150 mg of lyrica for chronic pain.  I suspect that the lyrica is really not doing me any good anymore if it ever really did.  I've also learned that all drugs with the potential to cause dizziness, which is the prime withdrawa symptom I currently experience, can augmet that effect in each other.

 

So my question is, if the lyrica is possibly contributing to the dizziness that's keeping me from tapering the zoloft, would it make sense to start a slow taper of the lyrica now?  If one or more 10% drops in the lyrica do indeed stop the dizziness could I not stop the lyrica taper then and resume the zoloft taper?  Grasping at straws here I know, but I'm sort of at the straw grasping point. 

 

I also know there is no pat answer to this, but thought there might be someone out there who has tried this and succeeded - or failed - either way I would like to know.  Thanks.

[alexjuice]

Textbook answer in your case would be to taper the zoloft first... That's not the only way, a multi-med taper is an option but you take all the drugs for a longer time vs tapering off on one completely then moving onto the next... I'd recommend that you read further and try to focus as much as possible on the aim potion of the ready, aim, fire strategy... one of the things that trips a lot people up, at least me and many others, is being inpatient to do something without regard to the risks of big changes...

 

In any case, if I were in your shoes, I'd taper the zoloft first in it's entirety, starting at 10% the first month and reducing or increasing the taper amount depending on your symptoms. I'd also keep a food diary because nutrition and diet has been a huge key for me to understand what is happening to me...

 

That's what I would do if I was in your shoes though I am not you nor am I in your shoes...

[brunz]

Thanks.  You are absolutely right about me being impatient to do something.  From everything I've read here it's not safe to start even the 10% taper on the zoloft until your existing symptoms have been gone or nearly so for a month.  Problem is I'm almost two months at 13 mg of zoloft and although I have some good days with essentially no symptoms - mainly dizziness and weird sensations in my legs - I have other days where they come right back.  Add to that the increasing nausea the zoloft is causing the longer I stay on this dose the more restless I get. 

 

I appreciate your advice though and will do as you suggest and try to get more in formation.  I won't be getting it from my neurologist that prescribed the lyrica, however.  Saw her yesterday and she said she had never had a patient who had trouble tapering by simply droppiing 50 mg a week.  Oh, to be one of those lucky people.  I can't escape the thought that the lyrica is part of the problem, but that doesn't help figure out what to do next.  Thanks again for responding.

[Altostrata]

Of course there are exceptions. If you are having an adverse effect from a drug, you might go off that one first -- as explained clearly in the prior topic.

 

brunz, your situation is so complicated, we could endlessly discuss the permutations. I hope you don't mind if I pass by such discussions.

 

You have whatever information I can give -- and it's by no means passed down on stone tablets. The responsibility for decisions is yours. Do what you feel is best for you.

[brunz]

Message received loud and clear.  Sorry to have become bothersome and thanks for your help.

[Rhiannon]

It seems like you could try a small cut in the Lyrica just to see what happens, no? Note that I said "small." :-)  Given that you're already suffering withdrawal symptoms, any cut in any other med is likely to aggravate those, so if it were me I would definitely not go as large as 10%.  Maybe something like 2-5 mg max.

[brunz]

Thanks, I was thinking 5%, but you are probably right to make it slower.

[Rhiannon]

Well, to start anyway. It's better to start slower and then speed up gradually if you can, than to start fast and go along and then crash and have to deal with both the symptoms and the recovery time.