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Alpha-Stim, Fisher Wallace Sota Biotuner, PoNS, & similar "brain stimulation" devices


meistersinger

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I referenced a website listing the documents from the FDA about the reclassification of CES devices, start reading here:

February 10, 2012: Meeting Materials FDA Generated

It involves changing the class of the devices from Class II to Class III (or vice versa, my brain is spinning and when I have a chance and am done reading, I'll give a recap.) They were all grandfathered in pre 1979 and what class they belong to is important in how they are marketed and controlled, with what it seems as a mere nod to their efficacy for a particular purpose.

 

The reason I chose a tDCS device is that they are cheaper by virtue of the fact they can be homemade (though mine is not) and they are not toying with any FDA approval stuff as to their fitness for a particular purpose. Perhaps in the future, after they have been more widely studied, they will be an FDA approved device. As I mentioned earlier, the difference between the 2 is that CES is AC and the other is (of course) DC and is pursued by placing electrodes in various 'montages' on the scalp or other body areas depending on the (purported) result desired. The CES devices are mainly attached to the earlobes. But I have yet to use mine. I have all of Gibson's archive of articles to read first and much more research to do.

 

And we aren't even talking about TENS or TMS here, that is a whole 'nother kettle of fish as is DBS (you can look that one up, gives me the willies just thinking about it....)

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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Hi brassmonkey. I understand and appreciate what you've said and for how you said it.

 

As you know I'm a newbie here, still learning the ropes so to speak. I'll keep my journal in my introduction thread. My only reason for wanting to put it on the other thread was that I read other journal entries there. Also from what I saw, the thread started out with a comment about how all the CES devices are a scam.

 

That's fine but the thread changed to discussions about the various units to the other posts that I mentioned earlier. I just thought that any posts were accepted there but I guess I was wrong being new and all.

 

Take care and bye for now.

Currently taking Cymbalta 120mg, Trazodone 150mg, Valium 5mg BID and Abilify 5mg. Have had many courses of ECT over the years including suicidal thoughts causing hospitalizations, which by the way I was getting pre meds so the thoughts are not from the meds. It's been 30 years and over 40 different antidepressants taken over time. Also, I want everyone to know that NO PDoc has ever tapered me off a med nor have I tried. Didn't know about it until this site. And, until the side-effects from taking Abilify 10mg, all of the other meds were cold-turkey and I NEVER had withdrawals. Strange I know. The depression has eased a little over the years but was always there and came back strong, hence the need for changing meds every 1-2 years.

 

Here's a link to my Introduction/Journal page: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9688-neilstevenlubin-neils-introduction/

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I am slowly making my way through the study I posted in Journals and am trying to figure out how I can sort of explain it in layman's terms and how it might relate to those people in wd who are attempting to use CES devices to alleviate symptoms. I have to say right off the bat that it is my belief that if you are in severe wd I do not think it is a good idea to use the devices at all. Withdrawal upsets are due primarily to varying degrees of autonomic nervous system dysfunction in a person's WHOLE body. Hormones, nerve impulses, tactile sensations, secretions, glands, you name it, they are all gone awry in some way or another. Adding stimulation of the brain via the cranial nerves, to me, is adding insult to injury. The brain and nervous system is doing the best it can to try to get these systems under control as it tries to reverse the effects of ADs and benzos and APs and jiggering the nerves (and brain waves) with electrical impulses is just another form of insult the brain has to weather and adjust to. But my opinion only.

 

That being said, why have at least 3 people reported some degree of 'relief' from these devices? Fresh says her med decreases have been without symptoms, OffEff reported some good things (and then some not so good things) and an other person (Black something or other) said he had good results (wd went away?) Since there was no way to control for the natural course of recovery with its 'windows and waves' one can say it was all due to that, OR the devices were responsible, OR some combination of the 2 OR some unknown combination of unknown effect occurred (add in your solar flares and other little understood phenomena and their effects on human physiology). Your guess is as good as mine.

 

But what I do know in my case, at a certain period of recovery I became 'sturdier' (for lack of a better word). I could fall back to sleep after waking in the night, I could exercise a bit more without causing a major setback, stuff like that. I can't tell you when that stage occurs but I think one will know it when it happens. I will use Fresh as an example. I think if she had used the device when she was in the throes of akasthisia, for instance, it would have made things worse, much worse. But she started it after she was more recovered. OffEff reported he was having some periods of relative well being (which demonstrates nervous system healing that is a bit more obvious in the later stages of recovery) and he had some good results (lengthened sleep, I think and a lot less crying). The crying is the significant thing, I think, because the device's current appears to have some kind of effect in stimulating the 'default mode network', that state where you aren't actively thinking anything but the brain is alert. The sort of experience trained meditators can seem to call up at will. It is also reported by some that using the devices reduces the tendency to 'ruminate' on crap and have yourself feel bad for no good reason (I think of myself here).

 

The study hazards a guess on how the current might affect the brain when it says this:

 

 

In regards to how the current reaches the brain, because this study used earlobe electrodes, the alternating microcurrent may initially stimulate afferent branches of cranial nerves. Stimulation may initially occur at branches of the facial, glossopharyngeal, and/or the vagus nerves that originate near the electrode placement on the earlobe, then are carried to the brainstem, the thalamus, and finally the cortex.

 

In mostly English, the 'afferent' nerves carry sensations (the efferent carry motor signals), the cranial nerves are in the head. If you look at this picture on Wikipedia you can see that about the level of the ears the glosso, vagal and accessory nerves are really close to each other.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gray793.png

 

That is how they think the current gets to the cortex of the brain, where where everything is happening in a human being. They aren't sure but it sounds good to me. The study found that is the FREQUENCY of the current that seems to have an effect, not its amplitude. They used the Alpha Stim 100 which has a patented waveform, the Fisher Wallace's is different.

 

So take my comments about these devices being 'money printing devices' with a grain of salt. They appear to do SOMETHING, a lot of people find them beneficial (they are used a lot by the military to treat PTSD sufferers) but the science is just not that definite yet. I would suggest that if you are in acute wd you use with caution and don't hope for a quick cure or hope for much of anything, really. The results don't seem to be predictable. And if they make you feel worse then knock it off. Your brain and nervous system are working as hard and fast as they can to put you right, don't make more work for them. It has been my experience that it truly is TIME that is the healer, combined with good food, water, gentle exercise, rest, distraction and a determination to resist putting pills in your mouth to try to 'cure' things. This excludes judicious use magnesium and omega 3 and the drugs you need to taper from. There is plenty of time to get 'healthy' with supplements and such after the worst of wd has subsided. Of course, ymmv.

 

I am still trying to make sense of the FDA's classification of these devices, that will be in another post.

 

And by the way, anyone who was on psychoactive drugs was excluded from the study (and I think anyone who had a history of mental, um, 'upset' [read 'illness']). The study measured the effect of the current on the RESTING state of the brain, measured by a really exotic fMRI machine and even more exotic software stuff. Not someone crawling the walls with wd. This is only ONE study I have looked at and at the rate I am going it will probably be the only one I try to understand and decode for the people here.

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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Good analysis CW.  One thing that struck me is that there is a big difference between PTSD and ADWD, that being that there is the physical alteration of the nerves that has taken place in AD usage that is not present in most PTSD.  With PTSD we would be mainly concerned with altering brain wave/electrical impulses where as with ADWD we are trying to undo the results of physical changes.  So the devices could be effective for PTSD and the like and totally ineffective for ADWD.  That's my take on the information available.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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It seems to not work for me, but I'm not ready to give it up totally  yet, so I will try using the device on different levels for different amounts of time to see if I can get some benefit now or in the future. 

I suffer from depression, anxiety, pure-o ocd, and panic attacks since 2004. Been on multiple different psychiatric drugs since 2006. Never had a significant WD problem before, only brain zaps for a month and then I'd be fine...............Been on Cipralex (escitalopram) 15 mg and Fluanxol (flupentixol) 1 mg since Sep 2014. Stopped taking the Cipralex after a fast 20-day taper.Took the last 5 mg Cipralex on Feb 5th, 2015. Then took Seroxat (paroxetine) 10 mg for a week, and stopped it too. Severe WD started suddenly on Feb 16th. RI 5 mg Cipralex on Feb 18th, 2015. RI worked and was relatively stable for a while................April 7 - decreased Fluanxol from 1 mg to 0.5 mg and took it at this dose for a week. - BIG MISTAKE; April 13 - WD starts creeping in; April 14 - RI full dose of Fluanxol 1 mg => severe muscle twitching and jerking when trying to relax and fall asleep, overwhelming sense of doom, dread, terror, and horror, insomnia, hoping to stabilize.
Tried doing a 10% cut off Fluanxol in the end of May for a few days, but quickly updosed to full dose because the twitching returned.
Experiencing waves and windows in the following months.
Unsuccessful brief taper attempt of Fluanxol by 5% on November 1st. Symptoms hit the next day. Too scared to continue tapering, reinstate full dose.
Severe crash in November after stupidly trying a barbiturate on November 9th. Grave mistake. Sense of unshakable inescapable internal torture, like my soul is in hell being tortured, terror/horror/dread/doom (probably akathisia?) that gets especially bad when trying to relax and fall asleep, muscles twitch, jerk and move on their own, shaking, insomnia, can't eat, confusion, disorientation, brain not working normally. Never felt so bad in my entire life. Never experiment with other meds while in WD! Praying to God I stabilize and get back to my baseline.
December - things getting even worse.

January - unbearable suffering

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Brass,

 

 

there is the physical alteration of the nerves that has taken place in AD usage that is not present in most PTSD

 

I was not aware that there is any PHYSICAL alteration of the nerves as a result of taking psychoactives but that there sure is a change in the chemical 'mileu' in which the nerves live, the chemical 'soup' present in the brain and synapses everywhere in the body is responsible for the awful symptoms we get, such as burning, stinging, sharp pains, twitches, 'vibrations', and going on up to blurry vision, weird tastes and smell, and so forth that the nerves have to get used to when we yank the drugs away from a body that has modeled themselves around their presence. (Sorry about the weird sentence).

 

Apparently, states like 'depression' and PTSD can cause actual changes in the brain (I am not really sure if this is still true or leftover Pharma hype) but I thought that was due to changes in signalling and receptor 'stuff', something I am not very much up on. But you change the chemical bath of the brain and nerves or change the behavior, the plasticity of the system responds and things get better (or worse, depending).

 

So all I am disputing is that the nerves themselves don't change or get damaged but the way they work gets changed and can recover back to a 'default' that the body is meant for. How it gets us back there is in fits and starts and is responsible for the wide variation in symptoms and the length of time one spends living in a messed up system.

 

I don't believe that the CES devices can promote that kind of healing and are better left alone until there is more system stability. If the body's signals along the nerves to the organs, glands, muscles and bones are electro-chemical in nature, then jiggering a system that is not working right to begin with, with interference at the level of the brain along the main sensory nerve pathways (the afferent system as I noted above) with something MECHANICALLY generated (the 'waveform'), might cause more problems than not, I would think. I have no idea how the Kirsch guy who invented the Alpha Stim came by his 'patented' waveform and if there was any science behind it.

 

I am not smart enough in neurobiology, physics and whatever all else is needed to really understand this stuff. But for the most part, if I read stuff with a critical (maybe jaundiced eye) I refrain from getting taken in by mumbojumbo fluff designed to empty my wallet. I purchased the tDCS to see if it helps depression, I was 'depressed' when I researched it. But the only symptom I have of depression right now is I spend too much time on the computer and won't clean my house, and don't want to get out and look for another job. So it sits in its box on the desk, waiting. I really kinda do want to try it, though.

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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No dispute at all.  It's my understanding that the "down regulation" of the nerves caused by ssris is manifested by a physical change to the receptor itself.  I think that there is so little understanding of what actually happens that it is all just guess work anyway.  When I get a chance I'll try to dig into it a bit more.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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I was under the impression that the myelin sheaths around the nerves were damaged , that's what the omega 3's can help with.

 

Anyway , I thought this was interesting  (from here http://healyourselfathome.com/HOW/THERAPIES/CES.aspx )

 

 

 

"How does CES work?

 

♦      The exact physiological mechanism by which CES works is not fully understood and is still the subject of research study

 

 “The cells in your body constantly draw energy from the brain and the Earth's electromagnetic field in an effort to achieve what is called "magnetic resonance."Magnetic resonance occurs when the magnetic frequency in your brain matches a harmonic of the frequencies of the other organs and body tissues. This normally occurs for only brief periods during sleep. During these periods, your body's ability to heal and repair itself, create enzymes, and boost immunity is enhanced”. 

                                                                    -   Dr. David Williams, Alternatives, March 2004

 

-       It appears that CES influences areas of the brain called the thalamus, hypothalamus and the reticular activating system (the part of the brain believed to be the center of arousal and motivation).

Brotman, 1989; Gibson & O’Hair, 1987; Madden & Kirsch, 1987.

 

♦      Specific electronic frequencies appear to stimulate the brain to manufacture and rebalance certain brain neurotransmitter chemicals, such as endorphins, SEROTONIN,DOPAMINE, NOREPINEPHRINE, and CORTISOL etc. - that may be involved in many stress related conditions. This can affect ones moods and emotions as well as ones cognitive capabilities.

Shealy et al, “Cerebrospinal fluid and plasma neurochemicals:response to CES”, J. of Neurological and Orthopedic Medicine and Surgery, 1998

 

♦      CES substantially reduces muscle tension  - as shown by EMG recordings. There are reports of changes in heart, blood pressure, galvanic skin responses and increased peripheral temperature, consistent with positive autonomic effects, which maintain homeostasis in the body

Heffernan M., “The effect of a single cranial electrotherapy stimulation on multiple stress measures”, The Townsends Letter for Doctors and Patients, 1995

 

♦      CES seems to stimulate the vagus nerve - producing a state of parasympathetic nervous system dominance, a system which has a general calming effect on the body. This is certainly consistent with the effects observed with CES.

 

♦      CES normalizes the body’s electrical fields that are disturbed with injury or pain - This has been measured on EEG (brain wave tracing).  For example, people with moderate to severe pain from osteoarthritis (degenerative joint disease) are found to have ABNORMAL  brain wave activity. After 5 minutes of CES treatment, brain waves were virtually normal, and pain was reduced by more than 50%. It has been found that individuals whose brain waves improved the most had the greatest pain relief.  

Heffernan M, “The Effects of variable microcurrents on EEG spectrum ans pain control”, Canadian J. of Clin. Medicine, 1997

 

♦      It is postulated that CES restores normal electromagnetic communication between cells -This may have the effect of regulating cellular differentiation, tissue repair, and immune system function.

 

For more detailed information on how CES affects the body -

At the end of this article, see:

   

For Those who Would like more Technical Details on CES "

Edited by Petunia
fixed link

1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg

2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg

Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta

Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months.

July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months.

Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg.

October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive.

March 2016 , 21mg

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I've started using my CES device and I set up a WP blog to chronicle my adventures (link is in my sig). It is not quite live yet because I am not sure if I am going to keep it. You see, I made a mistake when I named it - I forgot web addresses ignore capitalization and the link looks a bit 'off color' when you read it too fast. The blog title is ok, it is just the link I don't like. I did not think ahead on that one.

 

I plan to detail my experiences, not just in the results I get but using the equipment itself. I have videos planned, if I can figure out how to get a youtube account that does not link to my personal account (which every android device user has to have). Embedded videos are the way to go, otherwise I think the viewer has to download them to play them.

 

The reason I started a blog is that this site is not about CES devices and I don't want my thread (or this topic) to be all about me or my device. And it is a project where I hope to develop talents I can use in my evolution as a Technology Expert. The blog is blank at the moment (I have a draft post that is not finished) but check occasionally if you are interested.

 

I will say this (as a teaser) something feels different about life since I started using my device, my 'inner landscape' has really changed....

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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Brave lady . . . congratulations on taking the leap.   I'll be checking your blog for sure.  How many days have you done so far?

 

I've been doing booster sessions of CES and feel the improvement.

I am sleeping well , mood is good , am more functional than for many , many years.

1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg

2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg

Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta

Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months.

July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months.

Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg.

October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive.

March 2016 , 21mg

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First post is up: My tDCS blog. Comments are enabled but under moderation.

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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I also ordered a Sota BioTuner a couple of months ago, tried it for about a month without any luck. I know it has helped and can help some people. It was right after this didn't work for me that I decided to get the ECT. Still I do recommend people try the CES and all of these similar devices, because they DO help some people. It is worth the shot! 

-Effexor 150 mgs (2001-2009). Severe withdrawal symptoms during and after tapering for 6 months.  

-Pristiq 50 mg (2009-2012) Tapered over a year. Worst year of my life. 

-Prozac 20 mg (2012) Tapered over 6 moths to ease withdrawal. Still had severe WD symptoms. 

- (2012-2014) Doctor tried more than 20 medications for depression and WD, leaving me hypersensitive, and in protracted withdrawal. 

- Most debilitating symptoms during protracted withdrawal have been deep depression, anxiety, brain zaps, fatigue, akathisia, twitching, headaches and terrible PMS. 

-January 2015: Started Lamictal 12.5 mg, increased to 25 mg.- Bad reaction when updosed to 50 mg. Stopped. 

-February 2015: Doctor tried new antidepressant Brintellix - Horrible reaction. Discontinued completely. Severe AKATHISIA started.

-March 2015:  Started TMS therapy (Transcranial magnetic stimulation) for severe depression. Didn't work. 

-July 23-August 12: Had 10 ECT sessions which took away my protracted withdrawal symptoms including: akathisia, brain zaps, muscle twitches, fatigue and depression. Stopped medications. 

-September 2015: Experiencing bouts of depression again and muscle twitching. 

-March 2016: Started 20 mg Nortryptiline for depression. It helped. 

-August 2016: Slowly tapering Nortryptiline. 

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It's not helping me either. I'm continuing to try though. I am very disappointed because I was really hoping for some relief and at least a little improvement. The device was so expensive and hard to import in Bulgaria, troubles at the customs, problems. Seems like I went through all that trouble for nothing. Very disappointed. Still think it's worth the short. I had to try it. 

I suffer from depression, anxiety, pure-o ocd, and panic attacks since 2004. Been on multiple different psychiatric drugs since 2006. Never had a significant WD problem before, only brain zaps for a month and then I'd be fine...............Been on Cipralex (escitalopram) 15 mg and Fluanxol (flupentixol) 1 mg since Sep 2014. Stopped taking the Cipralex after a fast 20-day taper.Took the last 5 mg Cipralex on Feb 5th, 2015. Then took Seroxat (paroxetine) 10 mg for a week, and stopped it too. Severe WD started suddenly on Feb 16th. RI 5 mg Cipralex on Feb 18th, 2015. RI worked and was relatively stable for a while................April 7 - decreased Fluanxol from 1 mg to 0.5 mg and took it at this dose for a week. - BIG MISTAKE; April 13 - WD starts creeping in; April 14 - RI full dose of Fluanxol 1 mg => severe muscle twitching and jerking when trying to relax and fall asleep, overwhelming sense of doom, dread, terror, and horror, insomnia, hoping to stabilize.
Tried doing a 10% cut off Fluanxol in the end of May for a few days, but quickly updosed to full dose because the twitching returned.
Experiencing waves and windows in the following months.
Unsuccessful brief taper attempt of Fluanxol by 5% on November 1st. Symptoms hit the next day. Too scared to continue tapering, reinstate full dose.
Severe crash in November after stupidly trying a barbiturate on November 9th. Grave mistake. Sense of unshakable inescapable internal torture, like my soul is in hell being tortured, terror/horror/dread/doom (probably akathisia?) that gets especially bad when trying to relax and fall asleep, muscles twitch, jerk and move on their own, shaking, insomnia, can't eat, confusion, disorientation, brain not working normally. Never felt so bad in my entire life. Never experiment with other meds while in WD! Praying to God I stabilize and get back to my baseline.
December - things getting even worse.

January - unbearable suffering

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I'm sorry it's not working for you either bluebalu86, I know the disappointment feeling after getting your hopes up. But still, we have to try everything we can, we can't give up. You have no idea the amount of things I've tried to improve my health after WD, until something finally worked. We have to keep trying! I agree you should continue to try it for some time until you're completely sure it doesn't make any difference. Best wishes! 

-Effexor 150 mgs (2001-2009). Severe withdrawal symptoms during and after tapering for 6 months.  

-Pristiq 50 mg (2009-2012) Tapered over a year. Worst year of my life. 

-Prozac 20 mg (2012) Tapered over 6 moths to ease withdrawal. Still had severe WD symptoms. 

- (2012-2014) Doctor tried more than 20 medications for depression and WD, leaving me hypersensitive, and in protracted withdrawal. 

- Most debilitating symptoms during protracted withdrawal have been deep depression, anxiety, brain zaps, fatigue, akathisia, twitching, headaches and terrible PMS. 

-January 2015: Started Lamictal 12.5 mg, increased to 25 mg.- Bad reaction when updosed to 50 mg. Stopped. 

-February 2015: Doctor tried new antidepressant Brintellix - Horrible reaction. Discontinued completely. Severe AKATHISIA started.

-March 2015:  Started TMS therapy (Transcranial magnetic stimulation) for severe depression. Didn't work. 

-July 23-August 12: Had 10 ECT sessions which took away my protracted withdrawal symptoms including: akathisia, brain zaps, muscle twitches, fatigue and depression. Stopped medications. 

-September 2015: Experiencing bouts of depression again and muscle twitching. 

-March 2016: Started 20 mg Nortryptiline for depression. It helped. 

-August 2016: Slowly tapering Nortryptiline. 

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First post is up: My tDCS blog. Comments are enabled but under moderation.

Great entry CW.

 

I am seriously thinking of getting one of the devices as I am pretty desperate.   Unfortunately, with my cognitive issues, it is hard to go back and analyze which one is the best option.   If anyone wants to give me the cliff notes version of how to pick a device, I would be very grateful.

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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It's not helping me either. I'm continuing to try though. I am very disappointed because I was really hoping for some relief and at least a little improvement. The device was so expensive and hard to import in Bulgaria, troubles at the customs, problems. Seems like I went through all that trouble for nothing. Very disappointed. Still think it's worth the short. I had to try it. 

I am so sorry to hear that blue.  Believe me, I know the feeling of trying so hard to make something work to no avail.

 

Yup, you had definitely had to try it because otherwise, you would have wondered if it could help you.   That is the point I am at now.

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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First post is up: My tDCS blog. Comments are enabled but under moderation.

Great entry CW.

 

I am seriously thinking of getting one of the devices as I am pretty desperate.   Unfortunately, with my cognitive issues, it is hard to go back and analyze which one is the best option.   If anyone wants to give me the cliff notes version of how to pick a device, I would be very grateful.

 

 

Mucho thanks, CS. By the way, my blog is the full book on using the tDCS unit with a particular slant from a person who has experienced acute and prolonged antidepressant withdrawal syndrome. Not very Cliff notey I'm afraid.

 

Perhaps you'd like to wait till I get more up on my blog before you make a choice? I plan (next) to post videos on how to hook up and care for the device (mainly the electrode pads) and my first steps in using the device. As far as I know I am the only one from this board using a 'direct current' device and my main reason for buying it was the relatively cheap cost. I think my total outlay was around $164 whereas the FW, Sota and Alpha Stim are too rich for my tastes (although Fresh got a used unit for less) and require a script. I could well have purchased one as, since the worst of wd hit, I stopped spending money and have a little in the bank, but I am a total cheapskate.

 

I am finding the unit easy to use although I am going to report on my blog that using the unit I have with its type of electrodes that can be disassembled for cleaning might cause a problem for someone with the shakiness and other severe autonomic nervous system upsets of acute wd. The dis- and re- assembling them requires a patience and dexterity some might not have at their disposal until they have recovered more. In that case I recommend just rinsing them off and buying another set to use when the wire screens (you'll see what I mean in the video) rust from daily contact with salt water.

 

The FW video shows the electrodes (slightly different) being used with plain water at the area of the temples, easy to use.

 

The Alpha clips to the earlobes (or is it the Sota?), easier still. Both of these devices are using alternating current and more expensive (but did you see my note about the devices on alibaba?)

 

I have a feeling the device I am using is going to be very beneficial for a lot of reasons which I will explore in depth. I am unable, however, to tell whether or not they could have a good result (reduction of PHYSICAL symptoms) on someone with acute wd. I won't do anything to risk experiencing it again myself to test it out but I am always keeping in the back of my mind if it could work for something during that stage. I am mainly exploring its use for 'depression' and (ahem) a crappy personality that is keeping me from staying employed and not consistently SELF-employed.

 

And in your case, CS, I am trying to think through how they might help because I don't know what you want as an outcome. I don't know what your status is at the moment, just that you are post op nasal surgery. You might want to start exploring the links in my blog post (there will be more!) and see what 'clicks' for you as a reason to try it.

 

One of the things I would like to understand is what these devices really do and how they can help and then I can help others to understand that too. I am pretty sure they can't cure warts so if it is warts you have, get Compound W, it's more specific to the task at hand. If it's wd syndrome you want to heal, I do not think this is a magic bullet for that. But there are stages of wd where it might be very helpful and I could be very very wrong in that it really does help. I think most of us are going to be pushing up daisies before there are going to be any scientific studies done on our 'special population' and the use of CES so in the mean time, I am going to use myself as an experiment.

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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Did anyone have brain zaps or an "electric head" who tried one of these machines? I'm desperate to find something that helps.

Feb 2015 Took venlafaxine for 5 days only... experienced withdrawal that made me completely non-functional

Mar 2015 took under 1mg of Sertraline for 10 days in an attempt to combat Venlafaxine withdrawal. Got adverse reactions. 

After stopping Sertraline, withdrawal got much worse. New, horrific symptoms. 

June 2015 Still non-functional but slowly getting better. Still brain zaps, migraines, sweating, heart racing, depression, crying spells

September 2015: 24/7 brain zaps, twitches in the face, no concentration, bad memory, language skills deteriorating. 

 

Profile feed: http://goo.gl/3g2GRn

 

Sign this petition for a blackbox warning on Prozac in Ireland:

https://www.change.org/p/leo-varadakar-hpra-the-lack-of-a-blackbox-warning-on-prozac-in-ireland-and-its-use-by-the-hse-in-under-18-s?recruiter=63289046&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_term=des-lg-no_src-no_msg

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I bought the FW device and have been using it for approx. 3-4 weeks. I initially felt a bit relaxed after each session. But starting about a week ago I began to notice symptoms of akathisia.  I could not decide if the device was causing the symptoms or not so I continued to use twice a day for 20 minutes but now a week later the akathisia is almost unbearable.

 

Has ANYone heard of this as a side effect of these devices?  Secondly does anyone have any idea of what I should do?  Very distressing

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Louisa,

 

Please start a topic for yourself in the Introductions forum. It is impossible to answer your question without some background from you and this topic is more of a general nature regarding these devices. Not specific to a particular person.

 

I would suggest you stop using your device immediately if it is giving you 'akasthisia' That is a serious symptom not to be taken lightly and to my thinking it is not 'normal'. Perhaps you could explain in your topic why you started to use the device?

 

Instructions for starting a topic are here.

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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Did anyone have brain zaps or an "electric head" who tried one of these machines? I'm desperate to find something that helps.

 

I am by no means an expert in anything except myself (and upon which I could write volumes!) but I am going to take a stab at this. I have been thinking a lot on how to respond ever since I saw your question. (The Tl;Dr response is near the end).

 

I am going on just the info in your sig and have no idea of your age (which is important) nor your previous history of psychoactive drug use (also important) so what I say may be way off the mark. You were on a short course of a SNRI which is a drug which attempts to manipulate the action of 2 neurotransmitters, serotonin and norepinephrine. You summarily dumped that drug for some reason (probably because it made you feel like cr@p) and experienced unpleasant symptoms. I guess then your doc convinced you that a smidge of sertraline (a SSRI, manipulates serotonin only) would make you feel better so you tried that and it made you feel worse so you dumped that. I have no idea why you started on drugs to begin with but it is a common situation here.

 

These are very powerful drugs and there is a waiting period after you start taking them before you might see an amelioration of your chief complaint (could be depression or could be something like any number of things helpful docs think antidepressants are a 'cure' for) during which time your brain and nervous system are flailing around trying to adjust to the changes in the 'chemical soup' and you (to put it bluntly) feel like cr@p. It takes months for this to happen, before your emotions start to dull (and your body sensations get numbed too) but you stopped both drugs in a matter of days and precipitated something we call 'withdrawal syndrome' and which you describe as:

 

 

Still brain zaps, migraines, sweating, heart racing, depression, crying spells

 

You've been off the drugs (I assume) since March and here it is August and you are still having 'brain zaps'. I personally don't think that is unusual but I can't tell. You don't say if they are 24/7, only occasionally, only when you bend over to touch your toes or feed the cat or what. Your brain is still trying to return itself to normal functioning and if you leave it alone it will eventually do so. I would say that if you had these reactions to ADs that you should never in your life let anyone (MD or otherwise) ever convince you to try any drug like this ever again.

 

'Brain zaps' are one of the terms that is used to describe a 'felt' sensation and as far as I know they are not like getting zapped by a jolt of 220. They are annoying but not harmful, they are a SYMPTOM, not a cause. (As you saw on the MRI they don't show up physically and measurably). I had them when I first stopped my drug cocktail and stupid me, I just stumbled around in a fog and tired to carry on my life. (Driving a car was a real challenge though). I stopped my drugs in October and got to SA in May (approx 7 months) and they were gone by then, I really don't remember how long they lasted.

 

Some people have them for longer or shorter periods and some get them back if they take certain drugs again. Which brings me to your question about trying CES. I wouldn't do it, not at all. Your brain is trying to heal and you want to try stimulating a portion of it with an electrical current (albeit a weak one?) Which portion would you try to stimulate if you decided to try tDCS for instance? There are several ways to place the electrodes depending on what you want to accomplish (there's a bit in my blog about this).

 

If you try the alternating current devices I have no idea what you would be doing, what you would be stimulating. It is my gut feeling that these kinds of devices should not be used while you are having 'brain zaps', migraines, sweating and 'heart racing' (is this a fast pulse you are describing or something more like palpitations?) because this is a signal that your autonomic nervous system is in disarray and confusion and is attempting to re-regulate itself. It's your brain AND nervous system that are in an uproar, not some isolated area of your head (where 'brain zaps' are felt).

 

The good news is that the zaps will eventually go away but if you are doing anything to keep things in an uproar (supplements, vigorous exercise, drugs including OTC ones, caffeine use) I would suggest you stop. If I were you I would PM the members that say they have had success with a device and ask them if they would tell you exactly how they were feeling and what wd symptoms they were having before they even attempted to use the devices. And ask the ones who were not helped by the devices too and see what they say.

 

Hope this helps and if you would rather have the Tl;Dr version in response to your question:

 

 

Did anyone have brain zaps or an "electric head" who tried one of these machines?

 

Nope, and I would not try one if I was.

 

Edited to add:

 

I see I had missed a post by Hudgens, I always try to read his stuff. He completed a 4 year taper from effexor (your drug) 9 months ago and he had this to say in a recent update in May 2015:

 

 

I'm down to two symptoms: insomnia and the mild brain zaps (so mild, in fact, that I go for days at a time without noticing them).

 

It does not seem odd to me that he could still be having zaps and his was the most conservative taper I have heard of, especially when it came to the lower doses. He did not stop the drug completely until he was on what I would call a near 'homeopathic' dose. Some people's nervous systems take longer to stop thrashing around than others.

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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I wanted to update my post about the akathisia & add anything I could thinnk of what I thought of it for those of  you trying to decide.

 

I have now gone about 30 hours without using the device and the akathisia is dieing down and almost gone. Thank God!  Since I am on no other meds or alcohol, the akathisia was definitely caused by this device.  I wont risk trying it again because research really shows if you have akathisia to a drug it is likely you will always have that reaction.  It is not something that gets better.  And I know with this device, it started out low level after a few days but weeks in it was unbearable. I hope they will let me return it as it is a week past the 30 day return.

 

I also want to point out that I just might be one of these people susceptible to akathisia since I developed it once in the ER when given compazine and once in the ER years later when given prochlorazine (think that was name). They were both given as nausea agents when I came in with a migraine.

 

Peculiarly,  I never got akathisia with all the antidepressants I tried-TONS of them-over the years... which makes me wonder if this has a different mechanism of action??  In a strange way the development of this symptom, if nothing else, shows me that there IS some form of action in the brain by this device.

 

I must say I thought I felt a antidepressant effect with this device at first but was then over shadowed by misery of akathisia.  For example, I would wake up feeling very depressed in the am and use it for 20 minutes and then lay there for another 20 minutes and then it seemed I was able to get up and get on with my day.  But I did notice it wore off QUICKLY making me counting the hours to use it again.. It seemed very short acting at least with me. Its almost that I got a temporary boost of antidepressant effect that seemed very dependent on using it twice a day.  If I missed a session I felt depression quickly descend on me.

 

I used it at the Level 2 for 20 minutes twice a day.

 

Lastly I would say that I wish the manufacturers would get some hard science or studies behind this device as to mechanism of action or whether it really is a viable option for long term tx of depression. I have dug pretty deep and am pretty good about evaluating studies. UGH> the studies at least FW touts are absolutely terrible. The only one I ever saw that supported it was a tiny 10 patient study for insomnia. The other ones I saw for depression had dismal results..  I guess the FDA in 2012 thought the same thing because they pretty much lambasted three manufacturers of these device for the lame studies they submitted. (They submitted them to show efficacy and to persuade the FDA change these devices to a different class thus easing restrictions & increasing sales)

 

I believe it was one of the FW guys who, unbelievably,  was quoted as whining to the panel that "You are putting research and studies ahead of helping people who are now suffering without relief". The FDA was having none of it.  They had not been convinced these devices could not potentially do neurological harm. They told them to get back to the drawing board....

 

Ok, hope this helps any of you trying to decide. Ive tried to show my unbiased thoughts as best I can. Didnt work for me but might be something to try since you can send it back. Its just I think I had an epiphany with my experience in that just because something is a non drug or a device, does not necessarily prove it is safe....But I also know when you are in the depths of depression there is an amount of risk you are willing to accept at a chance for relief.  I do hear and understand that!

 

Good luck and I hope we keep this thread going with others experiences with these devices as their use becomes more common.

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Thank you for the amplification Louisa but we still do not know much more about your experiences with antidepressants. This board is primarily a resource for those struggling to get off meds or trying to deal with the aftermath of suddenly finding themselves in trouble after getting off them. Please do not construe this in any way as unwelcoming because it is not. You have a valuable story to tell and I still wish you would start an introductory thread for yourself and link to these posts for amplification.

 

I had not gotten around to finishing my research on what the FDA decided and see you have already done so. I thought it as much as the devices are still only FDA 'cleared' and are still restricted (they need a Dr script). I found the studies linked on one of the sites as not being something definitively showing evidence for a device's suitability for a particular use.

 

If you got akasthisia from compazine there are other drugs you should never have given to you either. We have a list somewhere, you can do a search for it. Cipro is one and I think phenergan might be on the list and another antibiotic. And just because you used ADs with impunity in the past, I would not count on them not to turn on you.

 

About your experience with the FW device. It passes an alternating current of some specific magnitude across the scalp (your trodes were on each temple, right?) and from there I have no idea what it really does (and I don't think anyone else does either, the language is vague). But it seems to me that it is non specific in that its impulses can travel along any cranial nerve till they reache the cortex. (Did you read one of my posts where I tried to work this out?) From there I am not sure what it does or where it goes. The tDCS is a low amplitude direct current applied to a specific area of the cranium and purports to either excite the neurons in the cortex underneath the electrode (positive) or dampen the neurons (making them less wanting to fire off) underneath (negative). It is thought by stimulating the DLFPC area and applying the negative electrode to the right forehead above the eye (F2) or the shoulder that this stimulation seems to help with depression somehow. I gave links in other posts to the studies on this.

 

It would be interesting should you decide to try tDCS to see if you A: experience akasthisia and B: experience some subjective relief from depression.

 

Please note:

 

I AM IN NO WAY SUGGESTING THAT YOU DO THIS!!!!!

 

I think if it were me and I had that kind of reaction I would never again ever apply current to my head for any reason whatsoever. I suffered from akasthisia for a bit and it was not an experience I care to revisit.

 

tDCS is not a medically cleared treatment for anything! But is slowly building up a large body of anecdotal (and scientific) information from its proponents.

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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I've been looking into this, I am interested.  While I have iatrogenic damage from the drugs, I have not had protracted withdrawal.  I do, have occasional brain frizzies (too mild to be called "zaps").  When the first Brain Tuner came out in the 80's I wanted one - "meditate like a zen monk" and "explore inner space" and all that.  

 

I listened to the Bob Beck lectures, and am primarily interested in his devices which use a "chord" of resonances (not sure I'm using the right terminology)  I also think it's vitally important to have access to the Schumann resonance (7.83 Hz) which oscillates between alpha and theta states.  I can do this on my own through meditation and shamanic practices, but - my results are spotty, and I'm old and cranky and would love to hook up to a thing that is more reliable than my brain.

 

There are three contenders (though I've eliminated CW's "Travel Stim" as it is not a Beck based machine)

 

BioTuner

 

Ugly box from NZ looks like it's made with parts from Tandy/Radio Shak.  = cheapest option, the BT Plus, has all the frequencies, including the Schumann one which interests me most (7.83 mHz, same as Mother Earth)

 

TravelStim - only has 0.5 and 1.0 mHz, though I like the headband with the moveable sponge electrodes, and the compact, neat size of it.  Though after looking at CW's tDCS blog, those electrodes look large and wet and intrusive.  And what if I do, as CW did, a reversal or put the electrodes in the wrong place?

 

The BioTuner from SOTA is pretty - looks like a fashionable medical device, and has the same features as the BT Plus - but it will cost me a lot more to get, even if I have it shipped to the USA.

 

What are other - especially the Bob Beck designed ones - options available to me?

 

Does anyone have a used one that they'd like to sell me?  Peggy?  Cdav?  I can get one used on ebay right now (SOTA Bio-tuner BT8) for just over US$200.  If I find out in the next week or so, it can be shipped to my mother's house in the USA.  If you want to sell me your SOTA Bio-tuner, please contact me ASAP so I can decide whether to have one shipped to Australia, or to the USA (I will only be in the USA for a few weeks, so the window of opportunity is critical)

 

Manymoredays wrote:

 

Biofeedback.......hmmmm.........just wondering.  Does anyone know if practitioners of some kind offer this?  As it seems so much of what I am going through is physiological now..........  I mean it seems like it something done when one is hooked up to an EKG and maybe blood pressure moniter of some kind........I can't remember but do remember it being talked about years ago in medical communities.

 

When I searched biofeedback this thread came up and I am not really understanding how the electrical stimulation stuff relates??

 

I may google later......not sure my ? is clear and just to that calmer but not real smart time of day.

 

 

You cannot hook an EKG or EEG up to a CES or tDCS device - the monitor will just pick up the signal the electronic CES device is putting out (Per Bob Beck)

 

As for the Biofeedback thing, there's a new animal called Neurofeedback.  I believe different SA members have tried it, including Alto, if I recall. Read more about it here:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2609-neurofeedback/

 

BlueBalu writes:

 

For example, the most expensive Alpha Stim device is $1200, and the Sota Bio Tuner which I found is the cheapest is $230. WTF 

:D

 And then we have Fisher Wallace and David Alert, David Delight and Oasis Pro in the middle of the price range. There must be a difference in the functionality and quality if the prices are so different. 

 

 

Well, after listening to the Bob Beck talks, I'm convinced that the difference is profits.  They choose the maximum price that will sell the most products to get the best profits.  What I find to be confusing is so few of them say clearly what they DO, as far as resonance, Hz, etc.  This is why I think I would only buy a Beck Based machine.  The part I'm most interested in is if the 7.83 Schumann resonance is available from the machine.  The SOTA Bio-Tuner you selected, I believe, does that.

 

My primary interest is in reducing pain medications, improving sleep, and smoothing out the spikes in my mood.  My personality is still spiky, and like CW, I suspect that some of that is "just me."  I strive to be a kinder, gentler, Jan, but attention is not my strong point right now.

 

Now, on a more pleasant note about Hz and resonances and stuff.  Something that fascinated me when I learned it was that when a cat purrs, their brain resonates at the same frequency as the purrs.  Some studies show that this can have a healing effect, as noted in this fluffy article:

http://paulapeterson.com/CatsPurr.html 

 

While this is a literary reference, in "Oryx and Crake," Margaret Atwood's dystopian series, there is a created species of neo-humans, and they don't need medicines.  When they have an injury or a sickness, they purr over it.  Purring soothes the mind and emotions, and that's half the battle, isn't it?

 

I want a SOTA bio-tuner to purr to me.   :D   If it saves me money (and damage) from pain medicine, it will be a huge bonus.  If I "see God and the Oneness of the Universe" or "talk to angels or spirit guides," even better!   :P 

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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JC,

 

I am using the Brain Stimulator not the Travel Stim and the type of current is completely different from the Sota and the FW which is probably why you see no mention of 'resonances' with tDCS.

 

Interesting about the purr. I also read something about the frequency of the purr as being the same as that which can heal bone fractures. It was postulated that a possible reason for the cat to 'purr' is because it spends a great deal of time 'motionless' while it stalks prey and that the 'purr' might be a way for it to maintain bone strength (hey! I didn't make this up, some scientist did!) I am just the (imperfect) messenger.

 

All conjecture me thinketh. Unleth of courth it ith really true.

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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I've heard that, too, CW.

 

It's the "purring"/healing aspect of this which interests me, not necessarily the "smoothing of symptoms."  Though, if I do get pain relief, that will be awesome.  And if my sleep becomes more normal, all the better.

 

I have a mini-TENS machine, a disposable one, that I sometimes use on my knee or back.  When I first started reading this thread, I looked at the output.  There are warnings all over the place NOT to put the electrodes on the head, or on the plexus of nerves in the neck.  I found the Hz on it once, something like .5 Hz (cannot find it now).

 

But without placing it on my neck or head, I could place the electrodes on my deltoids, close to the junction with the neck nerves, and leave it there for a couple of hours before sleeping.

 

It did not make me sleepy, or go to bed earlier, but I felt like I got good quality sleep.  I am still "testing" it, having had some nights away from it, I will go back to it.  I know it's not CES or tDCS or anything, but it's using microcurrent to ease psychological symptoms.  Placebo?  Maybe!  But at least I'm fairly convinced with these little experiments that, CES is mostly harmless, if expensive, treatment.

 

Caveat:  unless it exacerbates your withdrawal, which it is easy to see how it could do so. 

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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Recently I've been feeling more stable I think. I've been using the FIsher Wallace for 10 minutes once a day on the lowest setting. Hard to say whether it helped, or it was the passage of time + keeping the doses of the drugs stable and steady. I don't know. Maybe it's helping a little after all, even though I initially thought it's not helping? It's hard to say. I still think it's worth trying, especially if you're desperate for relief. 

I suffer from depression, anxiety, pure-o ocd, and panic attacks since 2004. Been on multiple different psychiatric drugs since 2006. Never had a significant WD problem before, only brain zaps for a month and then I'd be fine...............Been on Cipralex (escitalopram) 15 mg and Fluanxol (flupentixol) 1 mg since Sep 2014. Stopped taking the Cipralex after a fast 20-day taper.Took the last 5 mg Cipralex on Feb 5th, 2015. Then took Seroxat (paroxetine) 10 mg for a week, and stopped it too. Severe WD started suddenly on Feb 16th. RI 5 mg Cipralex on Feb 18th, 2015. RI worked and was relatively stable for a while................April 7 - decreased Fluanxol from 1 mg to 0.5 mg and took it at this dose for a week. - BIG MISTAKE; April 13 - WD starts creeping in; April 14 - RI full dose of Fluanxol 1 mg => severe muscle twitching and jerking when trying to relax and fall asleep, overwhelming sense of doom, dread, terror, and horror, insomnia, hoping to stabilize.
Tried doing a 10% cut off Fluanxol in the end of May for a few days, but quickly updosed to full dose because the twitching returned.
Experiencing waves and windows in the following months.
Unsuccessful brief taper attempt of Fluanxol by 5% on November 1st. Symptoms hit the next day. Too scared to continue tapering, reinstate full dose.
Severe crash in November after stupidly trying a barbiturate on November 9th. Grave mistake. Sense of unshakable inescapable internal torture, like my soul is in hell being tortured, terror/horror/dread/doom (probably akathisia?) that gets especially bad when trying to relax and fall asleep, muscles twitch, jerk and move on their own, shaking, insomnia, can't eat, confusion, disorientation, brain not working normally. Never felt so bad in my entire life. Never experiment with other meds while in WD! Praying to God I stabilize and get back to my baseline.
December - things getting even worse.

January - unbearable suffering

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Update:    I'm continuing to use the Sota Biotuner and have had no withdrawal symptoms since February (I've gone from 45mg to 30mg Pristiq).

 

JanCarol , I'm excited for you , praying you have the same wonderful result as me.

 

CW , blubalu , any chance of an update?   

1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg

2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg

Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta

Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months.

July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months.

Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg.

October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive.

March 2016 , 21mg

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Hi Fresh, sorry about no update or anything on my blog. I have been having a rough time and I am extremely upset about Skyler's remarks in this thread, especially since I started reading it from the beginning and found she has been saying the same thing for 3 years now.

 

I don't know what is the matter but maybe getting that little bit out will help me release the block I seem to have inside. I am not having a good time communicating but my CES is going on even if I have not written about it.

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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Hi Fresh, sorry about no update or anything on my blog. I have been having a rough time and I am extremely upset about Skyler's remarks in this thread, especially since I started reading it from the beginning and found she has been saying the same thing for 3 years now.

 

I don't know what is the matter but maybe getting that little bit out will help me release the block I seem to have inside. I am not having a good time communicating but my CES is going on even if I have not written about it.

 

CW....just wanted to say that I've appreciated reading your blog and am very interested in your journey with the device you have. I hope you're able to find your way back to writing....I think you have a gift for expressing yourself.

Remeron for depression. Started at 7.5 mg. in 2005. Gradual increases over 8 years, up to 45 mg. in 2012.Began tapering in June 2013. Went from 45 to 30 mg in the first 3-4 months. Held for a couple of months.Started tapering by 3.75 mg every month or 2, with some longer holding periods. Eventually went down to 3.75 mg. about April 2014. Stopped taking Remeron August 2014. Developed issues with histamine a week after stopping--symptoms reduced through diet and a few supplements. Currently having issues with a few foods. Most of the histamine intolerance has resolved or is at least, in remission.

Current Medications:

Current Supplements: Cannabis (CBD and THC), Vitamin C, D, Quercetin, CoQ10, Tart Cherry, Probiotic, Phytoplankton oil, magnesium, Methyl B. What has helped me most: spending time in nature, qi gong, exercise, healthy diet, meditation, IV vitamins, homeopathy, massage, acupuncture, chiropractic, music, and cuddling my cats..

My introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8459-mirtazapine-withdrawal-freespirit/#entry144282

Please note: I am not a therapist or medical practitioner. Any suggestions offered come solely from my personal experience in recovering from childhood trauma, therapy, and AD use. Please seek appropriate care for yourself.

 

“After a cruel childhood, one must reinvent oneself. Then re-imagine the world.”
Mary Oliver
 

 

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Some of the posts from this topic have been moved to a new thread called

How do we heal? Just time, or something else?

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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Update:    I'm continuing to use the Sota Biotuner and have had no withdrawal symptoms since February (I've gone from 45mg to 30mg Pristiq).

 

JanCarol , I'm excited for you , praying you have the same wonderful result as me.

 

CW , blubalu , any chance of an update?   

 

Fresh,

 

As I said earlier - recently I have been feeling more stable. So the Fisher Wallace could be helping, I can't really tell because initially I thought it wasn't working. I'm using the FW regularly even though sometimes a skip a day or two, once a day, for 10-15 mins on the lowest setting. 

I suffer from depression, anxiety, pure-o ocd, and panic attacks since 2004. Been on multiple different psychiatric drugs since 2006. Never had a significant WD problem before, only brain zaps for a month and then I'd be fine...............Been on Cipralex (escitalopram) 15 mg and Fluanxol (flupentixol) 1 mg since Sep 2014. Stopped taking the Cipralex after a fast 20-day taper.Took the last 5 mg Cipralex on Feb 5th, 2015. Then took Seroxat (paroxetine) 10 mg for a week, and stopped it too. Severe WD started suddenly on Feb 16th. RI 5 mg Cipralex on Feb 18th, 2015. RI worked and was relatively stable for a while................April 7 - decreased Fluanxol from 1 mg to 0.5 mg and took it at this dose for a week. - BIG MISTAKE; April 13 - WD starts creeping in; April 14 - RI full dose of Fluanxol 1 mg => severe muscle twitching and jerking when trying to relax and fall asleep, overwhelming sense of doom, dread, terror, and horror, insomnia, hoping to stabilize.
Tried doing a 10% cut off Fluanxol in the end of May for a few days, but quickly updosed to full dose because the twitching returned.
Experiencing waves and windows in the following months.
Unsuccessful brief taper attempt of Fluanxol by 5% on November 1st. Symptoms hit the next day. Too scared to continue tapering, reinstate full dose.
Severe crash in November after stupidly trying a barbiturate on November 9th. Grave mistake. Sense of unshakable inescapable internal torture, like my soul is in hell being tortured, terror/horror/dread/doom (probably akathisia?) that gets especially bad when trying to relax and fall asleep, muscles twitch, jerk and move on their own, shaking, insomnia, can't eat, confusion, disorientation, brain not working normally. Never felt so bad in my entire life. Never experiment with other meds while in WD! Praying to God I stabilize and get back to my baseline.
December - things getting even worse.

January - unbearable suffering

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Well, I got it - SOTA Biotuner 7 (secondhand).  I've only used it twice to see if it works.  It's not quite the purring sensation I'd hoped for, but there are enough settings and amplitude to get a variety of experience.

 

It's previous owner thought it would help with quitting smoking with no success (only used it a few times, though).

 

I have had magnificent dreams since starting to use it.  Astronaut funerals, trees which parted like a curtain, a funeral for "cruelty to dogs" (after this funeral there would be no more cruelty to dogs!), kaleidoscopic train rides....a few coherent feelings of resolution, of working through some things.

 

But that could be merely correlative with my travel, and nothing to do with the Bio-Tuner.  As I am travelling, I don't anticipate I will get it to a "practice" until I get home.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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I also picked up a cheap TENS, which is stronger than the disposable micro-TENS I got in Australia.  The cheap disposable normally sells at AU$45-50, and a full TENS is $199 (which I would never pay).  I got an Omron 3 mode, 5 amplitude little kidney shaped thing for $49.99.  I want to pick up some spare pads, too.

 

And example of Aussie prices - the conductive gel (not necessary for the Omron pads, but good for the Bio-Tuner) costs $40/small tube in Australia.  Here I got 3 gigantic tubes for $16.  I got the gel because in the video I watched it said that water can sometimes dry up - or mix with the oils in your skin and make irritation, that the gel would prevent that.

 

So - I've named my devices (we name our protheses in our family, hubby's hearing aids are "Henry," my contact lens is "Spot," his CPAP machine is "Max,").The Bio-tuner and TENS.  The Bio-Tuner is "Purr," and the TENS is "Buzz."  I've tried both to make sure they are in working condition - and all I have to report is sleeping better (but not enough), amazing dreams, and less use of pain drugs.  But that's an early sample, and may not correlate to my trials of these things.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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JC,

 

I love that you name your various machines...purr and buzz are great names. Aside from that, you've given me a reason to want one of these devices--dreams. My dreams have been almost non-existent since I jumped off..at least, I seem to be not able to remember them at this point. I'll be very curious to hear if your more intense dreams continue and how that is for you.

Remeron for depression. Started at 7.5 mg. in 2005. Gradual increases over 8 years, up to 45 mg. in 2012.Began tapering in June 2013. Went from 45 to 30 mg in the first 3-4 months. Held for a couple of months.Started tapering by 3.75 mg every month or 2, with some longer holding periods. Eventually went down to 3.75 mg. about April 2014. Stopped taking Remeron August 2014. Developed issues with histamine a week after stopping--symptoms reduced through diet and a few supplements. Currently having issues with a few foods. Most of the histamine intolerance has resolved or is at least, in remission.

Current Medications:

Current Supplements: Cannabis (CBD and THC), Vitamin C, D, Quercetin, CoQ10, Tart Cherry, Probiotic, Phytoplankton oil, magnesium, Methyl B. What has helped me most: spending time in nature, qi gong, exercise, healthy diet, meditation, IV vitamins, homeopathy, massage, acupuncture, chiropractic, music, and cuddling my cats..

My introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8459-mirtazapine-withdrawal-freespirit/#entry144282

Please note: I am not a therapist or medical practitioner. Any suggestions offered come solely from my personal experience in recovering from childhood trauma, therapy, and AD use. Please seek appropriate care for yourself.

 

“After a cruel childhood, one must reinvent oneself. Then re-imagine the world.”
Mary Oliver
 

 

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Yes, supposedly, according to Bob Beck, some settings are better for dreams than others, especially around the 7.83 Schumann resonance. (dancing between Alpha / Theta brainwaves).

 

Dreams are continuing, but again, I cannot proclaim that the Biotuner is responsible, even though I used it again yesterday - because travel also induces vivid dreams for me.  It's very stimulating to walk along crashing cliffs of coastline, or be still among the redwood giants, or even share distant stories with old friends.  It sets the imagination active to see patterns in the rocks, clouds, things I would normally not be mindful of in my home environment.  (I try, but it is easier to glide over the familiar)

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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