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rapunzel2

rapunzel2: a mess with drugs

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rapunzel2

Hello!

 

I have been following this forum for a while, but haven't been able to find time and energy to write my own introduction. I found this site after searching relentlessly for other answers to mental wellness besides antidepressants. Besides lots of other informative books I read Whitaker's "Anatomy of Epidemics", and understood better what happened to me last year when I had a big relapse, which I'm still recovering from. Medications didn't help anymore. Things only started improving when I started taking supplements (Daily Essential Nutrients, which is former Empowerplus), and applied gluten free casein free diet. And since then, I have carefully tapered down with medications. 

 

But I write briefly about my story from the beginning.

 

I have difficult background and lot's of things I have had to work through psychologically, because my dear mother suffered from severe depression for many years and finally it ended with her suicide in 2002. But I don't go into depths about that, but try to give you general idea of what has happened over the years. It was very hard after her death, and with difficult relationship at the same time, so I ended up taking antidepressants for some time. I was really paranoid about them, and agreed to take only small amount - 10mg citalopram, for like 5-6 months. 

 

As time went on, I started to get really bad mood swings myself in 2005. In summer 2006 I ended taking birth control pills I had been taking for 8 years. At the same time there was high pressure at work and another relationship that didn't work out. Few months after quitting the pills, I fell into hole I hadn't even been able to imagine before. Severe depression with even small amount of psychotic symptoms (delusional guilt thoughts). It was really, really bad. There was a psychiatrist, that put me on citalopram "because it worked before". 40g, which, in hindsight, was really high and I probably suffered a lot from not only the illness, but AD side-effects. I didn't really feel that the pills were helping, although after a few months I was out from the most awful state of mind. I continued to take the meds for some months, but then dropped it - I just didn't want to take them (I saw my mom deteriorating on AD-s, and didn't believe in them). 

 

But I was not the same after this crisis. I'd lost something in me. And as time went on, I started to sink down again. Until in 2008 (3 years suffering), it was so bad that I had no other way than to search for help again. I started cognitive-behavioural therapy, and did it vigorously, but it didn't help. And then I started meds again. After first tries that didn't work, I started prozac (20mg) - and it's effect was amazing and very strong!!! I got flashes and glimpses of my warm and good memories, I felt like a ton had fallen from my shoulders, it was quite dramatic improvement. I continued to get better gradually for at least a year. I felt that I gained about 80% of my wellness.

 

As things were going well, I thought it's ok to stop them now. I was still very wary about taking those drugs long term. I gradually stopped it, I think during 1-2 months. I remember I had withdrawal (feeling very angry and irritated), but pushed through it. I had learned a lot in therapy and thought I can handle myself. I was really emotional after ending it, cried a lot and it put a strain on my new relationship. After a couple of months I was really going down again, I felt really bad, depressed, awful, and anxious about the relationship. my pdoc restarted prozac. It didn't work anymore! It was awful... to realize that the drug doesn't help anymore. We tried duloxetine, which gave bad side-effects. and then sertraline (zoloft), which, after 3-4 weeks started giving relief. So the dynamics was such: I stopped the drug, restarted it about 4 months later, waited for 5 weeks,  then started new one (1-2 weeks), and then new one, which eventually started to work. The relationship still ended though, after a few more months. I didn't fall into pieces after that, although it was hard.

 

2009-2011 I was on Zoloft then (50mg). Looking back, things were more stable. not perfect, but I was able to live my life. In July-August 2011, I was in love, and thought I could do better if I reduced my antidepressant. I took 3/4 pill for a week and then half, since the beginning of August. By the end of August I was quite a mess. I didn't think about meds at all because I was dealing with relationship and I thought this all is psychological, and due to past traumas and my own illness, etc. I felt very raw psychological pain at this time, and it took a long time to get out of this hole - I remember hurting like hell all autumn. And we (me and psychiatrist) started messing with meds.

 

I think at first we upped zoloft, to 1,5 tablets (75mg). I think it didn't help - therefore we switched me to citalopram. I think first at 1 tablet, then 1,5. it helped for a little, but then I think caused me to be very tired and stoned. I think I then reduced it again, and went to 0,5 tablets (somewhere in November). And then, in the end of January 2012 I quit that entirely. I ran out of meds, and then thought, what the hell, I don't want to take them at all. I realized that they were not helping very much, but I totally did NOT realize how much harm they are doing, especially if withdrawing! During all this autumn 2011, I was making intensive progress in therapy, so I attributed a lot of my feelings to psychological things. And at the end, we did quite remarking breakthrough, and I also felt better, so I naturally thought about dropping the pills.

 

I experienced sudden and dramatic IMPROVEMENT in my condition, especially psychologically! I felt alive, sensitive, feeling, lighter, more awake, really connected to life and people and things! wow! I saw very vivid dreams and I swore that I even visually saw more clearly! I did feel also psysical sypmtoms - like dizziness, little nausea. but nothing so bad that I couldn't tolerate.

 

In april, my mood starts swinging. I managed it with lots of meditation, and running, etc. but it continues and gets worse. Until in the end of June - boom - suddenly during a period of one week, I suddenly crashed so deep, it's hard to even describe it. The relapse was very sudden and steep. I deteriorated into suffering which is unimaginable. I had been through very, very painful mental illness periods before, but this was one of the two most awful crisis. and it didn't go away.

 

new pdoc, at first reinstated zoloft, I think. didn't help. then swithed to paroxetine. things only got worse, paroxetine gave me horrible side-effects, besides everything else. then switched to buproprion. didn't help. at all. I ended up in the hospital. they started me on Prozac again. plus 50mg seroquel for sleep. This was in August, last year, 2012.

 

Things actually did not improve after that, or improved really, really little. And I developed hypersomnia - sleeping 14-16 hours a day. But still feeling tired. We increased Prozac to 40mg, but after that I was reluctant to do any more changes. I felt that meds just don't help me anymore. And it proved to be correct, because for 8 months, there was very little improvement (all that time I stayed on 40mg prozac + 50mg seroquel). 

 

I started reading about meds. Before that, I had done ALL possible with psychological interventions. CBT, EMDR, intensive therapy, group therapy, ect. all things very helpful for personal growth, but unhelpful for feeling so bad still. now I started reading about meds. And vitamins and minerals. I read Whitaker's book, and finally understand what happened last year - that the horrible condition I ended up with, might be because of ending drugs too abruptly. It helped to give me back some security - at least I understood, what happened, and what almost caused me my life. 

 

I also read a lot about vitamins and minerals and mental health. I started taking lots of supplements in March, and noticed small improvement in my hypersomnia. Then I switched to Daily Essential Nutrients (former EmpowerPlus) in April. At the end of April I started tapering down Prozac, by 1/10 amount in month or more time. In June, I started gluten-free-casein-free diet (with the help of nutritional therapist). I have been improving since April.

 

When I started DEN, it made me more tired for a week or so. And then, I think it started detoxification process in my body - I had violent headaches, woke up with swollen face, didn't tolerate alcohol at all (half glass of champagne gave me horrible hangover the next day). But those things passed - I think the headaches stopped completely when I started GFCF diet. 

 

My mood has definitely improved, if I look back a couple of months. I don't think about death anymore. I have more concentration, and my memory is better. although I'm not by any means in good shape, I'm out of crisis. My energy has improved more slowly, and hypersomnia as well, but they, too, are improving. There are days now when I can sleep 10 hours, and I'm very glad about it. I'm able to do more things.

 

I think I feel prozac withdrawal after two weeks when I have reduced it. I plan to go in the same pace (4mg down each month) until 20mg, and after that go 2mg/month. and at the same time, reduce also seroquel.

 

Whoah, that was a long story to write down. Thank you for anybody who had the energy to read it through!

 

I have some questions for you, too...

- does it also seem to you, that lot's of my problems are drug-induced - withdrawal-induced?

- what about illness itself? lots of people here discuss how they were put on AD-s which in hindsight were not needed, and then developed problems. I had small depression even before drugs. after my moms death I was on low dosage and for little time (half a year). And I did have bad trauma in my life. My mood swings and depressions were bad without AD-s...

- my first biggest crash coincided with quitting baby pills (hormones). I have long suspected there was a link. I think I was sensitive to chemical changes, and the stress and traumas had built up, but my body couldn't handle it anymore. I also think taking long time baby pills can deplete the body from some important vitamins/minerals, and cause biochemical mess in the body.

 

I think I will have more questions down the way. It's nice to finally write and introduce myself to you! :)

 

 

Edited by scallywag
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rapunzel2

oh, and also, I must say, that I'm really scared. mostly scared of making any changes that would end up in horrible, deep hole & suffering again. I don't think I have strength to go through it again, it was too awful. and secondly, that I will never be me again, never be well... But I know lot of people here share the same concern...

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Jemima

First of all, there's every reason to believe that most of your "mental health" issues are due to the many drugs you've taken and the abrupt changes that were made in the types and dosages of those drugs. I suspect the same may have been true for your mother.  Antidepressants don't solve any problems. All they do is numb the emotions (which may be useful on a very short-term basis for emotional upheaval) plus they cause lots of side effects in the long-term.  Often, going off an antidepressant abruptly results in withdrawal symptoms which are mistaken for a relapse.

 

Second, please read this topic on tapering off of psychiatric drugs:

 

Why Taper By 10% Of My Dosage?

 

And this specific one on tapering off quietapine (Seroquel):

 

Tips for Tapering Off Seroquel

 

So far so good with tapering quietapine as you've only reduced it 10% since July.  It would probably work best to continue tapering this drug at 10% of your current dosage at the same slow rate you're currently on.  Tapering two drugs at the same time is generally not a good idea, so if I were you, I'd stay at the current dose of fluoxetine until you're off of the quietapine for a couple of months and feeling stable. (If you taper two drugs at the same time, there won't be any way of knowing if you've reduced one or the other too fast or by too big a dose.) Quietapine is an atypical antipsychotic, which has more serious side effects than fluoxetine, so that's why I'm suggesting that you taper it first.

 

Welcome to the forum, Rapunzel.  You'll find lots of good information and friendly support here.

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mammaP

Hi Rapunzel, I am saddened by your story and all the trauma you have suffered in your life.

That is a lot of medication there's no wonder you have been ill with it all! 

You are doing great now and will get lots of advice and support here, the staff are the best

and really know all there is to know about anti depressants and the safest way to get off them. 

Welcome to our little corner of the world wide web where it is peaceful and friendly.  :)

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rapunzel2

 

And this specific one on tapering off quietapine (Seroquel):

 

Tips for Tapering Off Seroquel

 

So far so good with tapering quietapine as you've only reduced it 10% since July.  It would probably work best to continue tapering this drug at 10% of your current dosage at the same slow rate you're currently on.  Tapering two drugs at the same time is generally not a good idea, so if I were you, I'd stay at the current dose of fluoxetine until you're off of the quietapine for a couple of months and feeling stable. (If you taper two drugs at the same time, there won't be any way of knowing if you've reduced one or the other too fast or by too big a dose.) Quietapine is an atypical antipsychotic, which has more serious side effects than fluoxetine, so that's why I'm suggesting that you taper it first.

 

Welcome to the forum, Rapunzel.  You'll find lots of good information and friendly support here.

 

Thank you, Jemima!

 

There's a reasoning why I have wanted to reduce Prozac first, then seroquel. 

 

Prozac takes away my sleep - that's why seroquel was added in the first place. and I read from some book (don't remember which right now), that it's wise to remove activating drug first, then sedating drug. because it's always difficult to loose sleep.

 

secondly - I strongly suspect that my hypersomnia is an adverse reaction to antidepressant. is that possible, can anybody comment with their opinion? I just have a feeling that something happened with my body reacting to antidepressants, and now they are making me tired and sleep too long. that's why, I also want to reduce Prozac first. also, I think I feel really flat emotionally, really anhedonic, and I long to FEEL more. 

 

I know that seroquel is bad, but I'm still taking small amount, not hundreds of milligrams.

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Meimeiquest

Hi Rapunzel,

 

Welcome! What a ride you have been on!

 

Since you are interested in nutrition, I thought I'd through out that I have read that birth control pills can also decrease the good bacteria in the gut, which are increasingly implicated in mood control. Dr. Google can inform you :).

 

I think Seroquel is more often implicated in hypersomnia than Prozac, but it's a relatively low dose. But that doesn't say what your experience might be. I think doing what you feel most confident about is best.

 

Good luck!

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Jemima

I agree with Meimeiquest regarding the Seroquel causing hypersomnia, but you have to do what you think is best. It's important to have confidence in what you're doing. Generally, it is a good idea to taper the most activating drug first. Here's our topic on tapering Prozac:

 

Tips for Tapering Prozac

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Rhiannon

oh, and also, I must say, that I'm really scared. mostly scared of making any changes that would end up in horrible, deep hole & suffering again. I don't think I have strength to go through it again, it was too awful. and secondly, that I will never be me again, never be well... But I know lot of people here share the same concern...

 

I identify completely with this. I too have visited that dark place, several times, since starting on psych meds and ADs. 

 

I have found on my current very slow careful taper that I have never gone to that place again. I do have worse times and better times, and during the bad times I can feel quite pessimistic and low, but never that kind of horrific suffering and that deep dark bottomless hole. (The bad times always pass for me once I take a break from tapering and just keep my meds at the same level for a while.)

 

I believe that if you taper slowly and carefully and follow the suggestions in this forum, and pay very close attention to how you are feeling and stop and hold your taper as soon as the symptoms begin to increase even a little bit, you will find that you have much control over your own withdrawal and you will not spiral into those depths again.

 

I definitely understand your fear about that!

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mtnbkr

Hi Rapunzel.

 

I am so sorry for the horrific experiences you've had in going on and off ADs and for the tragic loss of your mother to suicide.  We all need to respect that this can be a terminal illness.  That's one of the reasons why the AD tapering needs to be done so very, very carefully.  And with MD supervision.  Thank you for sharing your story - and, yes, I read through the whole thing!  It was very real.

 

Since you asked for our thoughts, I'll share mine:  It sounds like you had a true depressive episode or two in the beginning.  But it also sounds like much of your suffering has been from AD side effects or withdrawal or both. I expect there were portions that were due to the birth control pills or other hormonal fluctuations.  Some of us are just extremely sensitive to changes in our body chemistry. 

 

Good for you for all of the self-help and cognitive work that you've done.  And good for you for finding and sticking with nutritional changes that are helping your mood. The GFCF diet takes vigilance and determination - and a lot of research and label-reading!!  All of these tools will give you strength and confidence and will greatly improve your ability to face difficult times without (or with less) meds.

 

I hope to read about your progress in the months ahead. Be well, and good luck to you! 

 

-Mtnbkr

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Rhiannon

Actually I am of the opinion--and there's evidence to back it up--that once someone has taken an antidepressant, you really can't say whether they're having "depression" in the same sense that it occurs in nature, in drug-naive people.

 

Also, often (usually) what is called "depression" (particularly by GPs, who prescribe the majority of ADs) (and again, there are studies to back this up) does not actually meet the criteria for that condition. So often people are prescribed ADs for normal responses to stress and trauma. That's not depression, that's emotion, maybe a little decompensation, some PTSD, some grief, some situational anxiety, all normal psychological reactions of healthy humans to tough situations.  

 

The appropriate treatment for that is therapy and going through the grief process and changing the stressful conditions in life. It's not because their brain's chemistry is broken and drugs are needed to fix that.  A brain that feels appropriate emotional responses in life is not broken and does not need to be fixed.

 

So I would not be so sure that what you (rapunzel) experienced, from your description, was ever actually the kind of "depression" that responds to ADs. (Studies show that in drug-naive patients ADs are really statistically only more effective than placebo in severe, major depression.)

 

Of course once you took an AD your brain chemistry was perturbed, and I think once that happens we are vulnerable to withdrawal "relapse." 

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rapunzel2

Hello!!
 
Thank you all for your responses! I read them at the time they were written, but as my energy level is quite low, I didn't have energy to write back sooner. 
 
First, how am I doing? Things are going in good direction. My tapering has gone like this:

  • 29. sept quetiapine 45 -> 40mg (1,5 months)
  • 14. oct quetiapine 40mg -> 35mg (2 weeks)
  • 16. oct quetiapine 35mg -> 40mg
  • 17. oct fluoxetine 24mg -> 22 mg

I put a longer hold on fluoxetine tapering, and tapered quetiapine in that time. also, I had difficult emotional time, and fluoxetine reductions influence me more, so I wanted to hold longer. 
 
I'm now 95% convinced that fluoxetine causes my hyperinsomnia. it seems counterintuitive at first, because everybody who looks at my two drugs says - seroquel causes sleeping. but it's actually vice versa - fluoxetine totally disrupts my sleep cycle, and seroquel makes the sleep at least a little bit deeper. some book I read, also advised that if one drug was started to counteract the other drug's side effects (seroquel was  added because I couldn't sleep with prozac), then stop the drug with side effects first. 
 
I now started also making smaller cuts in prozac taper. At first I was coming down from 40mg with 4mg steps.when I reached 28 ->24mg, the withdrawal was pretty tough, so now I went to 2mg steps. I will feel it at the end of october, since prozac has long half life.
 
but overall, my health is getting so much better! my mood is more stable, I'm more grounded and I can handle myself. my concentration is better, my memory is better. I'm starting to be a social being again! I feel like being with people and it gets to me. kind of like Rhi described in one of her posts...
 
My energy is a little bit better and sleep also, but they are still very low and I sleep a lot. I think it's due to drugs. I can't wait to get off them, but I know I can't go any faster.
 
I attribute the improvement in my wellbeing a lot to vitamins-minerals and GFCF diet. in my opinion, they make a big difference. 
 
p.s. comment about my mom's death.... I have always suspected that drugs played a big role. after reading Whitaker's book, I understand more, how. Although there were many other psychosocial influences, she wouldn't have been so messed up only by those. At the end, I know that she got some injection (probably long-lasting antipsychotic?) which made her really, really ill. she was shaking, had problems with speech, lost weight really fast, and generally just deteriorated really fast. seeing all this and feeling that drugs made her worse made me really paranoid about antidepressants and psychoactive meds. but still, although I struggled hard to go without them, I couldn't, and ended up in same trap. but at least I have more options now - vitamins,minerals, diet, and knowing much more how to come off those drugs.

Edited by Petu
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rapunzel2

By the way, anybody taking 5-htp? How would that react with meds and tapering?

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Altostrata

Welcome, rapunzel2.

 

If Prozac is activating, it makes sense to reduce the Prozac first. Do this slowly to minimize withdrawal symptoms.

 

When you are taking half of your Prozac dosage (20mg), you may want to hold on the Prozac and reduce Seroquel.

 

My suspicion is that Prozac is causing sleeplessness and Seroquel is causing the oversleeping.

 

Our topic on 5-HTP is here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/656-5-htp-5-hydroxytryptophan-and-tryptophan/

 

We haven't seen any evidence it helps with withdrawal symptoms; it can make them worse. Please don't think of yourself as someone who needs to be medicated and cannot cope with emotions -- you've learned so much.

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rapunzel2

When you are taking half of your Prozac dosage (20mg), you may want to hold on the Prozac and reduce Seroquel.

 

My suspicion is that Prozac is causing sleeplessness and Seroquel is causing the oversleeping.

 

Our topic on 5-HTP is here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/656-5-htp-5-hydroxytryptophan-and-tryptophan/

 

We haven't seen any evidence it helps with withdrawal symptoms; it can make them worse. Please don't think of yourself as someone who needs to be medicated and cannot cope with emotions -- you've learned so much.

 

 

Thanks, Alto!

 

No, I think prozac is causing disrupted, shallow, too long sleep. my evidence is that this hypersomnia began with some AD changes (up and down), seroquel was there but steady at that time. I was taking zoloft at that time. in my opinion ADs make my sleep very shallow, and it's like a long coma, not healthy, resting sleep. also, it's not like I get sleepy at the evenings - seroquel helps with that. I think seroquel helps to make sleep a little bit deeper. Therefore I disagree that seroquel causes this hypersomnia. Although it might contribute.

 

I did exactly what you suggested, at 24mg prozac I was doing a hold and decreasing seroquel 2 steps. I think it's a good idea, to proportionally decrease also seroquel (but not simultaneously, of course). 

 

I will discuss 5-htp with my nutritional therapist. maybe a small amount would help with sleep. I wouldn't take big amounts, because I'm taking SSRI. 

 

I don't think I need to be medicated, but I do think I need to pay special care to make my physical body very well and healthy. my depression seems to be very biochemical. the improvements in last couple of months with vitamins-minerals and diet have been very impressive.

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rapunzel2

Is it any way possible that when I have reached lower quantities of prozac, I will feel withdrawal after drop SOONER than before? Prozac has a long half life and so far I think I felt WD approximately 2 weeks after the drop. 

 

now that I came from 24mg to 22mg, I think I feel WD already after 1 week. is it something related to how this drug works or is it just my body reacting differently?

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Altostrata

Yes, people often encounter greater difficulty about half-way down. Tapering 2 drugs at once makes it even more difficult. You may wish to hold on both here.

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rapunzel2

Yes, people often encounter greater difficulty about half-way down. Tapering 2 drugs at once makes it even more difficult. You may wish to hold on both here.

 

oh, really? that's interesting to hear. but what usually comes after reaching half? is the other half smoother? or does it go worse?

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rapunzel2

oh. I just checked my posts in another forum, when I started with prozac. my terrible hypersomnia started with prozac... and it just never went away. I complained about this side effect, and it didn't get better. only my depression got a bit better, but very very slightly, the meds were not working anymore.

 

I so wish to get rid of this drug. but I know I must go slow.

 

it's weird that it seems that my withdrawal symptom is the same as the side effect - my hypersomnia goes worse when in withdrawal. 

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Altostrata

Look at it this way: It's better than not being able to sleep at all, a much more common reaction.

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rapunzel2

yes, it is! but I have a disability due to that, because I have too little energy and it would be impossible to go to go to work from 8-5. I'd like to be well! :)
 
but what about this question, alto:
oh, really? that's interesting to hear. but what usually comes after reaching half? is the other half smoother? or does it go worse?

Edited by Petu
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Altostrata

Listen to your body and go at a rate that minimizes withdrawal symptoms. Your hypersomnia might lessen.

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rapunzel2

thanks, Alto! :)

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rapunzel2

can excersise trigger withdrawal?

I'm quite bad after my last drop, which was already 6 weeks ago. I'm too emotional, and cry easily. I thought I was starting to get a bit better, and took a run, to excersise. after that I had the worst crying incident, and I'm afraid I'm messing up my relationship with that :(

 

it's about 7 months since I started tapering, and I'm afraid that maybe now I'm loosing it.. like I did last year - lost my mind after 5 months off drugs. it seems I get it with time lag. perhaps my serotonin receptors are not capable of upregulating.

 

I ordered some free-form aminos, I hope those would help. I should receive them in coming days.

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alex

can excersise trigger withdrawal?

 

Absolutely; I wasn't able to do anything stressful for body and mind for a year;now, I am able to do things like exercise, interact with people, in a much much better way.But it took 1 year of hell to get where I am today.I am 16 months Effexor free.

 

Your brain and receptors are healing; all we need (easy to say) is patience, faith and TIME.

 

Be gentle to yourself.

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Altostrata

Walking is a good exercise because it does not increase cortisol as more strenuous exercise does.

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rapunzel2

I have realized by now that I can't do excersise, but I was too tired to try anything else. but I set a new year's resolution, that I can't go on like this and must do SOMETHING. Yesterday I took a friend and went to walk - walked 1,5 hours. I think it's effect was quite good on me. when I came back, I was tired in a good way and fell asleep earlier. I also slept a bit better.

 

I was suprised that walking was such a physical excersize! I've used to be in so much better shape and I guess I haven't done any sports for a long time.

 

now a question - thinking about strained out nervous system and weak body - how often would you think it's ok to go walking? I've learned that I cannot go over my body's abilities, which are SO much lower now. I'm impatient and would actually like to go for a walk today too, but at the same time I feel tired (and of course I sleep all the time), so maybe I should not overdo it.

 

if anybody has advice about good schedule for walking, I'm all ears.

 

still, my worst problems are fatigue and oversleeping. I hope that walking would also give me a bit more energy in the long run...

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rapunzel2

p.s. my last drop (17 october) left me with very bad withdrawal and it's only got better very little. so I think I have went too fast, although I was so slow... but now I'm holding - maybe even half a year :-( which sucks because drugs really give me bad side effects.

 

I have realized that for me - my withdrawal hits me 4-5 months after decreasing. I don't know why it is so, but I tend to not get so bad immediate withdrawal, but after longer time, it hits me like a killing wave.

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mammaP

Hi Rapunzel, glad you managed to get out for a walk. I don't know about schedules for walking, I can't walk very far 

but wish I could! I reckon a short walk of 20 minutes every day would be a good thing. Gentle walking is better in

withdrawal than more strenuous exercise.  

 

 Don't you just hate those waves! Hope your symptoms settle down soon and you get a good window. 

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rapunzel2

thanks MammaP, I think I will try a 20 minute easy walk today, not longer walk.

 

I don't know if I have had any good times at all - it seems that I will never get better and less fatigued when on those drugs. I'm so envious on people with good health :( It can take years before I get any better.

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Altostrata

Little by little, you will feel better. Keep lengthening those walks!

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rapunzel2

thank you for kind words!

 

I went to 30 minute walk yesterday, and they seem to be helping me. I've always "helped" my psychological symptoms with training, so now I'm glad that I can do SOMETHING. I sleep a little bit better this way.

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rapunzel2

I'm sorry, I can't figure out exactly, how quoting goes here... so I'm copying and pasting GiaK-s post from another thread, because it is directly influential in figuring out my history, as well as my mom's.

 

"GiaK Posted 05 January 2014 - 06:29 PM

here are the posts where I recommend the book Meimeiquest recommends...the posts include my thoughts on the ANS connection...

 

 

Protracted psychiatric drug withdrawal syndrome, chronic illness, CFS, Fibromyalgia. Yeah, they all have things in common. 

 

and

 

Autonomic nervous system dysfunction, protracted psych drug withdrawal, CFS, Fibromyalgia and why I still limit engagement on the internet

 

I'm glad to hear it's been of help to some of you. it's not the be all end all, but it helps a lot...I've not had it in me to write anything so comprehensive...and yeah...we need that coming from our perspective..."

 

 

Actually, my mom had a mysterious illness long before her mental problems and treatment started. she was acheing (muscles were hurting) all over the body and there was no cause found for it. it was totally random, and she suffered very much. and one day it just stopped, after torturing her for 7 years. some doctors said it's Fibromyalgia.

 

could it be, that me and my mom, we both have some kind of very sensitive autonomic nervous system? because she was totally messed up with drugs, these certainly did not do anything better. and I don't seem to be in a better spot..

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Meimeiquest

Gia may write more about this. On her blog, she says she has talked to many people with a dx of fibro (most useless dx ever) who became manic on norepinephrine re uptake inhibitors. That would include Effexor, Cymbalta, and Wellbutrin...probably others. I was dx'd with fibro, but really it tells you nothing. Kelly Brogan at www.kellybroganmd.com has some info about how these things affect mental health. She is very focused on the physical story, and there is always an emotional one as well, but this is all so complicated that I am very grateful for anyone who has expertise in any aspect.

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rapunzel2

reporting - I'm feeling much better :-)

 

I think the hold since 17.oct has helped - worst is getting over by now.

 

I have been able to walk most of the days and I'm sleeping a bit less (10 hours average). now I have been able to even try to put on some sleeping regime - and I've woken up at 10 am for 5 consecutive mornings by now!!!! yay, this is BIG improvement! If I can only get some rythm going for my body, it will make things so much better. It was very hard for a couple of days, but today I already feel more rested.

 

I read the Unravelling CFS and it made a lot of sense. I use this knowledge, and I'm gentle with my body, not pushing it too far.

 

But I think that the most of my healing comes from other interventions than simply reducing drugs slowly. My diet is very strict and healthy - no gluten, no dairy, no sugar. I use potent micronutrients and amino acids. I really feel my brain is healing - only the drugs and withdrawal is messing it up and make the picture more complicated.

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rapunzel2

I've been on hold now for 3,5 months, and I'm feeling so much better. in fact, when the acute withdrawal clears, I'm feeling healthier than in a long time! my mood is very stable, I'm not crying easily, I'm calm. my energy is better, although not normal yet. My sleep has gotten much better - no horrible hypersomnia anymore, I can cope with 10 hours of sleep and I can have some regularity in this area. 

 

so things are much better. but at the same time I'm still feeling quite apathetic, and low in energy, and my memory is not good. it feels like I'm overmedicated and it would be wise to continue reducing meds.

 

but I'm a little bit scared. things went havoc at the end of the year and it's scary. 

 

as I have understood, I get very delayed withdrawals, the worst comes after 4-5 months. so I've calculated that in october, the reduction compared to half year ago was 31%. that's quite a big amount. if I would reduce now, in february, by 1mg then the reduction compared to half year ago is only 13%. it should be better. but I'm still a bit scared. 

 

the reductions table is here. any opinions?

 

fluoxetine2.png

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