rapunzel2: a mess with drugs

[Addax]

Ah... Yes, the tired all the time thing was definitly a side effect of Prozac for me. To be honest I never equated it with my sleep... Hmm. I hated it and even asked my doc for aderall or some kind stimulant. At the time I don't think I identified it as a side effect. It used to get so bad that I would sometimes start to nod off on my 20 minute drive to work, less than an hour after my morning cup of coffee. If I was driving longer I would sometimes have to pull over and nap for 5-10 minutes. Sometimes it would happen at my desk once at work. I even began to worry that I had developed narcolepsy. I don't think it got that after about the 15 year mark since I started taking it. The good news is, after a particularly bad period of this it seemed to improve even without changing dose. It still lingered though, but I was at 60 mg at the time. The fatigue is why, later, I asked my doc to add Wellbutrin. Like you, as I tapered the fatigue became less and less pronounced. Now at 20mg I can feel it, but it's not like it was at 60, 40, and better than it even was at 30.

 

Sorry to hijack your thread. I just wanted you to know I really understand how it feels and that I've experienced it as a side effect. The coffee and energy drinks helped, but only temporarily and sometimes made me feel too jittery. Oh! The one thing that did help, and if I was consistant with it, was exercise like running or fast walking. It wasn't easy to do in the beginning because I was tired, but it helped a lot. I noticed I was much more tired if I went more than 3 days without running or walking.

 

As you're thinking about what you want to do, some other things I've read that might help: Limiting sugar, and adding more charbohydrate a into your diet in the form of vegetables, potatoes, and things like that. Also, I've never tried it, and it's totally just something someone mentioned to me, but apples and cold water with lemon is supposedly helpful for some people.

 

I really know how debilitating that fatigue can be :-(. I hope you find relief soon.

[rapunzel2]

 I don't think it got that after about the 15 year mark since I started taking it. 

 

in my opinion it happens when your brain starts to fight back to the drugs effect and becomes more agressive than the drug's stimulant effect. prozac is the most stimulating of them, and if you look at the SSRI comparison charts, you see that prozac has the highest incidence of insomnia. it just breaks your sleep, and the sleep is not restorative anymore.

 

I'm so glad that you are not feeling the effects very strongly at 20mg. I'm at 14,4mg and while it's better, it's still very, very bad. 

 

I'm trying to eat healthily and I'm using chinese acupuncture. but nothing really takes away this tiredness.

 

at the same time, of course, I'm quite frightened about the switch. 

[Wildflower0214]

 

 

I don't think it got that after about the 15 year mark since I started taking it.

in my opinion it happens when your brain starts to fight back to the drugs effect and becomes more agressive than the drug's stimulant effect. prozac is the most stimulating of them, and if you look at the SSRI comparison charts, you see that prozac has the highest incidence of insomnia. it just breaks your sleep, and the sleep is not restorative anymore.

 

I'm so glad that you are not feeling the effects very strongly at 20mg. I'm at 14,4mg and while it's better, it's still very, very bad.

 

I'm trying to eat healthily and I'm using chinese acupuncture. but nothing really takes away this tiredness.

 

at the same time, of course, I'm quite frightened about the switch.

I think what people find activating is individual. I'm very senstive to any kind of activating substance. Lexepro was not activating to me, but my friend took it, and it sent her through the roof. She has had better success with Prozac. I tried Zoloft and it was very very stimulating. I had to discontinue. My psych doc says that Zoloft has a norepinephrine repuptake inhibitor to it, it's mild, but still present, and that is why many find it stimulating.

 

So, again, I think that a drug, even though it may not give others problems, may give one person a problem. Our body chemistry is individual. That is why some of us have worse WD, some never have issues with meds, and some people tolerate them seemingly ok, but later go on to develop side effects.

[rapunzel2]

 

 

I don't think it got that after about the 15 year mark since I started taking it.

in my opinion it happens when your brain starts to fight back to the drugs effect and becomes more agressive than the drug's stimulant effect. prozac is the most stimulating of them, and if you look at the SSRI comparison charts, you see that prozac has the highest incidence of insomnia. it just breaks your sleep, and the sleep is not restorative anymore.

 

I'm so glad that you are not feeling the effects very strongly at 20mg. I'm at 14,4mg and while it's better, it's still very, very bad.

 

I'm trying to eat healthily and I'm using chinese acupuncture. but nothing really takes away this tiredness.

 

at the same time, of course, I'm quite frightened about the switch.

I think what people find activating is individual. I'm very senstive to any kind of activating substance. Lexepro was not activating to me, but my friend took it, and it sent her through the roof. She has had better success with Prozac. I tried Zoloft and it was very very stimulating. I had to discontinue. My psych doc says that Zoloft has a norepinephrine repuptake inhibitor to it, it's mild, but still present, and that is why many find it stimulating.

 

So, again, I think that a drug, even though it may not give others problems, may give one person a problem. Our body chemistry is individual. That is why some of us have worse WD, some never have issues with meds, and some people tolerate them seemingly ok, but later go on to develop side effects.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think it got that after about the 15 year mark since I started taking it.

in my opinion it happens when your brain starts to fight back to the drugs effect and becomes more agressive than the drug's stimulant effect. prozac is the most stimulating of them, and if you look at the SSRI comparison charts, you see that prozac has the highest incidence of insomnia. it just breaks your sleep, and the sleep is not restorative anymore.

 

I'm so glad that you are not feeling the effects very strongly at 20mg. I'm at 14,4mg and while it's better, it's still very, very bad.

 

I'm trying to eat healthily and I'm using chinese acupuncture. but nothing really takes away this tiredness.

 

at the same time, of course, I'm quite frightened about the switch.

I think what people find activating is individual. I'm very senstive to any kind of activating substance. Lexepro was not activating to me, but my friend took it, and it sent her through the roof. She has had better success with Prozac. I tried Zoloft and it was very very stimulating. I had to discontinue. My psych doc says that Zoloft has a norepinephrine repuptake inhibitor to it, it's mild, but still present, and that is why many find it stimulating.

 

So, again, I think that a drug, even though it may not give others problems, may give one person a problem. Our body chemistry is individual. That is why some of us have worse WD, some never have issues with meds, and some people tolerate them seemingly ok, but later go on to develop side effects.

 

 

Oh, I totally agree, didn't mean to generalize like that. 

 

it just seems that prozac fucks up my sleep so bad and I'm wondering if zoloft would be better, since it has been in the past. but after many withdrawals it's not really predictable what happens on the same drug that used to be mild.

[Wildflower0214]

 

 

 

 

I don't think it got that after about the 15 year mark since I started taking it.

in my opinion it happens when your brain starts to fight back to the drugs effect and becomes more agressive than the drug's stimulant effect. prozac is the most stimulating of them, and if you look at the SSRI comparison charts, you see that prozac has the highest incidence of insomnia. it just breaks your sleep, and the sleep is not restorative anymore.

 

I'm so glad that you are not feeling the effects very strongly at 20mg. I'm at 14,4mg and while it's better, it's still very, very bad.

 

I'm trying to eat healthily and I'm using chinese acupuncture. but nothing really takes away this tiredness.

 

at the same time, of course, I'm quite frightened about the switch.

I think what people find activating is individual. I'm very senstive to any kind of activating substance. Lexepro was not activating to me, but my friend took it, and it sent her through the roof. She has had better success with Prozac. I tried Zoloft and it was very very stimulating. I had to discontinue. My psych doc says that Zoloft has a norepinephrine repuptake inhibitor to it, it's mild, but still present, and that is why many find it stimulating.

 

So, again, I think that a drug, even though it may not give others problems, may give one person a problem. Our body chemistry is individual. That is why some of us have worse WD, some never have issues with meds, and some people tolerate them seemingly ok, but later go on to develop side effects.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think it got that after about the 15 year mark since I started taking it.

in my opinion it happens when your brain starts to fight back to the drugs effect and becomes more agressive than the drug's stimulant effect. prozac is the most stimulating of them, and if you look at the SSRI comparison charts, you see that prozac has the highest incidence of insomnia. it just breaks your sleep, and the sleep is not restorative anymore.

 

I'm so glad that you are not feeling the effects very strongly at 20mg. I'm at 14,4mg and while it's better, it's still very, very bad.

 

I'm trying to eat healthily and I'm using chinese acupuncture. but nothing really takes away this tiredness.

 

at the same time, of course, I'm quite frightened about the switch.

I think what people find activating is individual. I'm very senstive to any kind of activating substance. Lexepro was not activating to me, but my friend took it, and it sent her through the roof. She has had better success with Prozac. I tried Zoloft and it was very very stimulating. I had to discontinue. My psych doc says that Zoloft has a norepinephrine repuptake inhibitor to it, it's mild, but still present, and that is why many find it stimulating.

 

So, again, I think that a drug, even though it may not give others problems, may give one person a problem. Our body chemistry is individual. That is why some of us have worse WD, some never have issues with meds, and some people tolerate them seemingly ok, but later go on to develop side effects.

Oh, I totally agree, didn't mean to generalize like that.

 

it just seems that prozac fucks up my sleep so bad and I'm wondering if zoloft would be better, since it has been in the past. but after many withdrawals it's not really predictable what happens on the same drug that used to be mild.

I hope you find a way to feel better. Whether that means changing drugs, or something else. I'm sorry you feel stuck. It's an awful feeling. I really hope you find a solution.

[rapunzel2]

thank you, Wildflower!

yea, it does suck, for all of us, this withdrawal neverending struggle...

[rapunzel2]

just for information - after a lot of considering, I decided NOT to switch to zoloft. risks are too big, and I have no idea if I would tolerate it better or if the withdrawal would be easier. and I would probably loose a lot of time because the switch would make things unstable. better the devil you know...

[Addax]

Sounds like a good decision. The devil you know.... How true.

[rapunzel2]

my last fluoxetine cut was in february. in the meantime I was not able to withdraw, because of too big workload. I just couldn't afford to be non-functional. 

so I had quite a long hold. I was feeling so much better. 

 

I made a cut on 27th May, and now I'm feeling SO, SO ill my whole body aches. I slept until 4pm today, and I'm so tired. my cognitive abilities are a mess. I'm frustrated, angry and teary. new symptoms are nausea and headache. it's just awful. It's awful to do such thing to yourself, knowing that a cut in drug results in such pain.

 

it's so hard to be a drug-addict

[Addax]

Oh Repunzel! I'm sorry you're feeling so ill! I hope it passes quickly.

[rapunzel2]

I've gotten better after last cut, and now there's another one coming. I need to do it in summer, because it's easier when I have vacation. at the same time it means I will totally **** up all my vacation and I feel sooooo sorry for that! I'd like to enjoy some summer, but I need to sacrifice it for the future good. 

 

I will cut today to 10,6mg (fluoxetine). this actually calls for celebration, because it's basically only half a capsule and it's 1/4th of the amount that I was taking 2 years ago!!!!!!! I'm so happy about that!

[Addax]

1/4 the amount of 2 years ago!! Awesome!

[rapunzel2]

1/4 the amount of 2 years ago!! Awesome!

yay! thank youuu!

[rapunzel2]

I have been holding since July. Right after I did my last cut, I fell in love I didn't want to make further decreases so early in a relationship. I'm afraid that withdrawal brings up irrational fears that will disrupt the relationship, especially in an early stage, when there is not much security yet.

We have now lived together for 3 months, very happy, and I'm feeling secure with him

In the meantime, my workload was also crazy and all the moving was very stressful. I think now the worst stress is over, and it's so totally time to make another cut. 

 

as I have been stable for quite a few months, I'm quite scared to feel so much worse again. 

at the same time I'm excited, because I so wanna get rid of this nasty drug. And I do feel it's effects every day - it still makes me very tired. Also, I have an overstimulation issue - when I get tired, I don't tolerate sounds, somebody talking to me or being in the same room, etc - I just want to be alone in a quiet room...

well. wish me luck! I will go from 10,6mg fluoxetine to 9mg tomorrow. 

[rapunzel2]

has anybody else noticed that when the withdrawal journey progresses to lower doses, the symptoms become less physical BUT more psychological?

 

I went from 10,6mg to 9mg 1,5 months ago. First it seemed to be more gentle withdrawal than previously, because I didn't geel it so much physically. But now I'm feeling very bad emotionally, psychologically. 

 

Is that a pattern that anybody else has noticed?

[rapunzel2]

time to do some update. 

I haven't been able to withdraw in a pace necessary during the last year. First, I didn't want to mess up my newlyfound love secondly - work is very stressful and demanding. I haven't done as much progress as I would have liked. in March 2015 I was on 14,4mg prozac, at the moment I'm on 9mg. 

 

but I need to start going faster. We have discussed the possibility of getting the baby but I will never take a chance on getting pregnant on drugs. it's very dangerous, I think. So I need to get rid of drugs. at the same time, I'm getting 37 this month. I don't have much time anymore. I don't know how long I'm fertile. thinking about this makes me nervous. I went to gyn and made some tests, but nevertheless it's clear that I don't have years to wait. 

 

has anybody else got pregnant after long taper and quite a big sensitivity for drugs?

 

anyway, I'm planning to do a cut from 9mg to 7,4mg in coming week. I'm scared, as usual. I fear the tiredness and drowsiness and inability to work. my workschedule is very demanding, but I don't have any options. 

 

I recently decreased tryptophan. I took 1000mg, I reduced it to 500mg. got quite a big withdrawal. feeling very tired and sleepy. and for a couple of days I was really irritable. I have to wait this to pass before making the prozac cut. 

 

otherwise I must say that I have been quite good in the meantime. since I wasn't able to withdraw, I have done long holds and felt quite stable. life just keeps getting better the lower I go with the doses. I'm getting my life and personality back. on better days I really enjoy being with people - I can really FEEL them now. 

[Addax]

This sounds like a good update to me!

[rapunzel2]

thanx, Addax!

 

Time for a new update. I just reduced from 7,4mg fluoxtine to 6mg. I'm tired, but considering the cut, I'm doing quite ok. it seems that my withdrawals are getting somewhat EASIER. I don't know why. maybe my liver is in better condition. I've taken milk thistle for a long time now and on smaller drug doses, the liver should have also less workload. Anyway, withdrawals seem to get more manageable. tiredness and sleeping difficulties, but I can actually function at the same time. psychological symptoms have gotten much easier. I can't remember the time I felt depressed. stress, yes, but not depression.

 

I have done some tests and waiting for results, and talked with gyn. I will probably give a green light to pregnancy right after withdrawing and I don't have much time. But I think it will take me at least a year to get clean. 

 

Question: which one is worse for pregnancy - fluoxetine or quetiapine? Obviously, I don't trust my psychiatrist with that answer. I hope somebody has any opinion, I don't get much replies on my thread...

[AmyK]

Nice to hear that tapering is going well! About drugs safe in pregnacy, I am not the one to tell. I dont think any of them is really safe? But the smaller dose the better of course. Take care!

[scallywag]

Question: which one is worse for pregnancy - fluoxetine or quetiapine? Obviously, I don't trust my psychiatrist with that answer. I hope somebody has any opinion, I don't get much replies on my thread...

 

Have you checked out what drugs.com says about each drug?  There's often something about the advisability during pregnancy. The consumer information sheet for each drug will likely have information (google: [drug name] country "consumer information").  A quick search of your country's government health department might work too.

[rapunzel2]

thanks for your replies!

 

neither of them is safe, I know that. but if a pregnancy happens on low doses, I wonder which is worse. Quetiapine has warnings for pregnancy http://www.drugs.com/pregnancy/quetiapine.htmlAntidepressants are considered somewhat safer, but taking into account my horrible experience with them I don't believe in it. And I'm scared of autism, for example. Mad in America has put together all the risks http://www.madinamerica.com/mia-manual/antidepressants-in-pregnancy-risks-to-fetus-and-newborn/

 

I know that nobody knows the answers for sure... Currently fluoxetine seems worse to me, at least my body reacts to it much worse. Doses are small already - fluoxetine 6mg, quetiapine 12,5mg. 

[scallywag]

Wow, what a tough spot to be in.  At least both drugs have been around for a while (fluoxetine 1986, quetiapine 1997) and there is history to evaluate. Some ideas: A search online for peer support groups -- hopefully knowledgeable -- might yield some information and/or peer expertise. Maybe you could ask an OB/GYN, neonatal doctor (neo-natal nurses might have good first-hand insight) or a pediatrician?

[mammaP]

Hi Rapunzel, glad to see your taper is going well. I can understand you are eager to be off so you can start a family but you need to be healthy and enjoy your pregnancy without withdrawal.  Instead of making bigger cuts, maybe you could make 10% cuts a little sooner , maybe 3 weeks instead of 4, but hold if there is any withdrawal. Are you tapering both quetiapine and fluoxetine together? 

 

Dr Healy has a piece on his site, 'something about Mary' that covers anti depressants in pregnancy and it seems that there are risks with SSRIs. 

 

http://davidhealy.org/theres-something-about-mary/

 

Its a hard call and I feel for you, you want to be in the very best health for pregnancy and not risk any harm to a baby but time is passing by. 

You are getting your dose down and will be off soon now, it isn't the start of your taper you are nearly there  .

[rapunzel2]

Wow, what a tough spot to be in.  At least both drugs have been around for a while (fluoxetine 1986, quetiapine 1997) and there is history to evaluate. Some ideas: A search online for peer support groups -- hopefully knowledgeable -- might yield some information and/or peer expertise. Maybe you could ask an OB/GYN, neonatal doctor (neo-natal nurses might have good first-hand insight) or a pediatrician?

 

in my country, no doctor knows anything about withdrawals, and very little about psych drug dangers. I'm on my own with that.

 

of course, in ideal situation, I will be drug free when starting to get pregnant. I'm only thinking that if pregnancy happens accidentally, then which drug is worse. i guess I will never know. better concentrate on withdrawing

[rapunzel2]

Instead of making bigger cuts, maybe you could make 10% cuts a little sooner , maybe 3 weeks instead of 4, but hold if there is any withdrawal. Are you tapering both quetiapine and fluoxetine together? 

 

 

thanks for advice. my system is actually such that I always hold much longer than 4 weeks. I feel withdrawal for at least 1,5 months. and I usually want to feel better for some time, before next cut. So I've usually hold 2months or even longer (this happens because I have tight schedule with work and life, and I can't afford to be inable to function all the time). 

 

for me, this system works better. If I'd make smaller cuts more often I'd be in constant withdrawal and for me it would be torture. I need to get to the surface once in a while to breathe to feel better. 

 

I'm not reducing the drugs at the same time. it's either fluoxetine or quetiapine. 

[mammaP]

13 March   I'm planning to do a cut from 9mg to 7,4mg in coming week. 

27 May       . I just reduced from 7,4mg fluoxtine to 6mg.

 

The cuts you are making are bigger than we would recommend, and why you feel withdrawal. Making small cuts means that the brain can adjust easier to the reduction by 'sneaking' it away. You've done so well to get to the low doses it would be a shame to spoil it. Are you tapering quitapen in between the prozac? 

 

Take a look at this topic, there are some interesting graphs in there that show the importance of being careful at the lower doses.  

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6036-why-taper-paper-demonstrates-importance-of-gradual-change-in-plasma-concentration/

 

 

[rapunzel2]

I really appreciate you being concerned MammaP. You had me going over all my graphs and information about my withdrawal. I don't know - it seems to me that I've been quite conservative so far, because it has taken me 3 years to get where I am. Some people who make 10% cuts each month get to the end in a year or less. I've always listened to my body and I make cuts when all my previous cut's symptoms have dissapeared. I'm afraid that if I make smaller cuts sooner, then I have to make a cut when previous one's symptoms are still active and then I can more easily overdo with the tempo. 

 

My whole journey so far has been such:

 

25. april'13 fluoxetine 40mg -> 36mg (10%)

25. may'13 fluoxetine 36mg -> 32mg (1 month inbetween, 11%)

4. july'13 fluoxetine 32mg-> 28mg (5,5 weeks, 13%)

27. july'13 quetiapine 50 -> 45mg (10%)

15. aug'13 fluoxetine 28mg -> 24mg (6 weeks, 14%)

29. sept'13 quetiapine 45 -> 40mg (1,5 months, 11%

14. oct'13 quetiapine 40mg -> 35mg (2 weeks, 13%)

16. oct'13 quetiapine 35mg -> 40mg

17. oct'13 fluoxetine 24mg -> 22 mg (8%)

4. feb’14 fluoxetine 22mg -> 21mg (3,5 months hold inbetween, 5% cut)

21. feb fluoxetine 21mg -> 20,5mg (2,5 weeks, 2,4% cut)

27 feb fluoxetine 20,5mg -> 20mg (1 week, 2,4% cut)

30 mar fluoxetine 20mg -> 19,5mg (4,5 weeks, 2,4% cut)

17 may quetiapine 40mg -> 31mg (22% cut)

31 may fluoxetine 19,5mg -> 17,56mg (9,9%)

13 july quetiapine 31mg -> 25mg (19% cut)

19 july quetiapine 25mg -> 18, 75mg (25% cut, 6 days)

28. july quetiapine 18,75mg -> 22mg

9. aug fluoxetine 17,52mg -> 17,12mg (2,3% cut, 10 weeks, over 2 months).

19. aug, back to 17,52mg due to bad withdrawal symptoms

20. oct fluoxetine 17,52 -> 17,2mg (1,8% cut)

28. nov fluoxetine 17,2 -> 15,6 (9,8%)

9. feb’15 fluoxetine 15,6 -> 14,4 (7,7%)

3. may’15 quetiapine 22mg -> 19mg (-14%)

27. may’15 fluoxetine 14,4mg -> 12,6mg (-12,5%, 1,8mg)

2. july’15 fluoxetine 12,6mg -> 10,6mg (15,9%, 2mg)

26. oct'15 fluoxetine 10,6mg - 9mg (15%, 1,6mg)

18. jan'16 quetiapine 18mg -> 15mg (17%)

16. mar'16 fluoxetine 9mg -> 7,4mg (18%)

22.may'16 fluoxetine 7,4mg -> 6mg (19%)

 

you can see all this in a graph form in here: http://s33.postimg.org/bffydbain/ravimite_v_hendus_graafik_kuude_kaupa_juuni_2016.jpg

 

Yes, I've made some bigger cuts recently, but the reasons for it are such:

- I had a pretty long hold with fluoxtine

- my withdrawal has become easier in time. it used to be much more horrible. I don't get depression symptoms any more at all. My tiredness and hypersomnia withdrawal symptoms are also more tolerable. My overall mental health is much better than before. the last cut actually has not been that bad.

- I need to be more progressive on summer time, because my workload is less, this is really important. when the autumn comes, I can again do longer holds. I cannot keep moving on very fast in autumn-winter, because workload is too big

- if I would keep making 10% cuts then I would withdraw indefinitly!!!! at some point you need to start doing bigger cuts in the end!

 

Now, my next plan would be something like this:

- july, fluoxtine 6mg -> 4,6mg

- october 4,6 -> 3,4mg

 

if I would make 10% cut each month, the plan would be:

- july 6mg -> 5,4mg

- aug 5,4mg -> 4,8mg

- sept 4,8mg -> 4,3mg

- oct 4,3mg -> 3,8mg

- nov 3,8mg -> 3,4mg

 

actually not THAT much of a difference, wheather I will be on 3,4mg on october or november. Why should I choose the latter plan? in my opinion, I can't listen to my body with such system. withdrawal sypmtoms become a blur. I would not feel when my last cut's symtoms have totally resolved and therefore I risk more with the possibility that my withdrawal will go astray. 

 

And after that? If I continue with 10% cuts then I will withdraw indefinitely? at some point you have to make bigger cuts, if you don't want to keep withdrawing for 10 years? I don't have so much time, I want to be able to start a family. and I don't think that withdrawing indefinitly is reasonable, when the goal is to get rid of the drug. 

[Addax]

Hey Repunzel. It looks like you have a plan all worked out. Of course I want to encourage you to go the slow and steady of only 10% cuts with long holds because I don't want you to feel terrible at any point. I know, however, that you are the expert on you and how you feel, so I'm pretty sure you'll slow things down if you find you're feeling too ill or things are getting overwhelming. If pregnancy happens during this whole thing my guess is that as you withdrawal your fetus will also be experiencing it along with you, so it probably make sure you minimize your stress on all levels. Given even just the possible risk to the fetus with SSRIs, best case would be to wait till you're free from them before you conceive. I say that as someone who never wanted children, so I don't know how strong the pull to have a child can be.

 

You know your body and mind, the risks, and what you're willing to tolerate. Keep your thread updated so we know how you're doing and can support you.

[rapunzel2]

I'm feeling very bad

last week I played volleyball. it was too hard excersize for me it made things worse.

this week I went to chinese doctor for needle therapy. it has helped me before. now seems that it has made things totally worse
I'm feeling depressed, cognitively scattered, hard to concentrate, angry, pissed off, disturbed and scared. 

I guess have moved on too fast. I need to hold longer now.

I'm so dissapointed and pissed off about feeling this way. And I have loads of responsibilities, but no abilities to do them :S

[scallywag]

rapunzel When you see the acupuncture doctor for needle therapy, ask for techniques that are not stimulating. Stimulating treatments often make withdrawal symptoms worse.

 

You'll get past this.  I like your idea to hold where you are a bit longer.

[rapunzel2]

thanks for your input. I'm going to acupuncture right now and I'm nervous about if my message goes through. 

I said I'm tired a lot, so I guess she did something to perk me up... that does not seem to work in a good way!!!!

[rapunzel2]

I refused the treatment today. she denied that needles made my condition worse. and she suggested that I should decrease my meds now. rolled her eyes when I said it can be dangerous and makes things even worse. she also got angry when I tried to ask her what exactly she influenced with needles. said that she's "treating my condition". 

 

well I'm not going back. and I'm really tired and traumatized that nobody knows anything about withdrawal syndrome and nobody believes me and listens to me when I say how I feel and what works and what doesn't. I'm getting more and more iatrophobic. 

[scallywag]

What a disappointing and frustrating situation with the acupuncturist.   This "I know best" mindset is not the thinking and attitude of a healer. I'm sorry it was a tough day.

[rapunzel2]

thanks, scallywag! yes, this kind of attitude should be fired unfortunately acupuncturists are hard to find here, and this is the thing that sometimes helps. 

[rapunzel2]

is there anybody else besides me who goes to the psychiatrist for the drugs, and argues with him/her? I go and I argue and I argue. about all the things in psychiatry. he doesn't take it personally, but strongly disagrees with almost everything that I say. today, after I have tapered for 3,5 years and told him all the time about withdrawal, he said to me that he thinks I have depression coming back. all the symptoms are the same as depression (wtf). 

 

I don't know why I'm doing this to myself - I'm a little traumatized every time I have met him. I just can't help myself, but to voice my opinions.. Maybe I think he is not TOTALLY lost cause. but at the same time I see that I'm running to the wall with my head and it just hurts me. 

 

about my situation - I haven't been able to go further with withdrawing, because I guess I made big cuts and I haven't stabilized yet. sigh. I feel tired, I have difficulties with sleep (not refreshing), and I can't tolerate stress, excersize, going to sleep late, or anything that would influence me. It's starting to get better though, so I hope that in september I can move on. I'm thinking about reducing quetiapine then. it seems to be a little easier for me to withdraw, and I have quite a workload during the fall. 

[ChessieCat]

Hi Rapunzel,

 

Maybe you need to change the WAY you talk to him:

 

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?