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Roads

Karma doesn't exist

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Roads

I am tired of seeing this ugly and damageing theory everywhere. Karma doesn't exist, or at least not in the form it is commenly described.  

Karma is illogical and incoherent., in many ways:Basically, Karma boils down to the mathematical sanction and retribution of our deeds, negative or positive. Karma is a function. Karma is the most pernicious version of one of the most immense spiritual junk ever: the judgement, because it appears impartial.

But it is not impartial at all, nor fair. It is equal, just equal, and not in a good way. Its equality and thus its illusion of justice lies in ithe equality of accountability it implies. Justice, true Justice, judge the deed AND its source. The consequence AND the cause. Even our human justice understands that: childhood, traumas are explored for criminals. There are no identical deeds. Each deed has different actors and thus values, for they are produced by unique and extremely complex beings, therefore unique and extremely complex causes. There is just a similarity in manifestation wich makes categorization intellectually tolerable and comfortable(but it remaisn just that, tolerable). Equality of retribution implies equality of value wich implies equality of cause.What does it mean? It means that Karma is unfair. It means that Karma is partial because it could be only fair if every deed, that is to say every being, were the same, thus equally accountable. In other words, Karma is BIASED towards an universal and abstract accountable being that doesn't exist. It also means that Karma is illogical, since it falls in the mistake of categorization. Categorization has tremendous advantages on an intellectual level, but when it comes to judge, it must be cast aside, because everything is unique. Karma is Crap. Do you want something funny? Here it is: Can you see, thanks to all that I have explained, that Karma is similar in abuse and incoherence to psychiatric labelling? The irony, dude.

 

God is also the Bad. God is everything.  God needs the Bad to express the Good. God loves the Bad.God doesn't judge. Why would he judge something he created and permitted? Why would he judge something he IS and NEEDS?

Do you think Life is a test for our resistance to temptation? This is the only logical explaination to an alledged Judgement. Really? What for? What would it bring to God? God just want to BE. God wants you to be, for you are a marvellous unique expression of Him/Her. So be, without fear, because you are doomed and condemned to eternal and unconditional love, you nasty little sinning brat (kidding). By doing this, you will doing yourself and God a favour, which is the same thing, you are God. 

 

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Roads

I don't know how to edit, or even if it is possible, but I have to precise a few sentences :

 

 "For each category of deed, equality of retribution implies equality of value which implies equality of cause."

 

and "if every deed, that is to say every being, was the same for the related category, thus equally accountable". 

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Roads

Well, my reasoning is flawed. A retribution can be as complex and unique as the cause of the deed. I got caught up..One of my biggest defaults.

 

Still, I maintain what I said, and there are other ways to prove it:

 

-Harming a person can be a very positive thing. I know something of it, and you too I think. When harming somebody, you may be giving him (empowerement, understanding, love of compassion etc). Thus harm can be good, and is even planned for the realisation of some things. I think that what is considered as bad is a superficial way of seeing a mean that gives a good that could'nt have been achieved in an other way. i think that there is nothing but good, everywhere, even if it can be disguised. So why would it be sanctioned?-Sometimes you do harm when you want to do good. This happens a lot. There is a lot of self-convinced and self-reaching sollicitude that is, in fact, unaware egoism, self gratification and thus abuse. Doing good is very difficult., you have to put yourself aside and know what the person needs to achieve the goal of his/her soul. Sometimes harm is necessary.. You can't know what the soul needs. Only God knows. So, how can you do a good to a need you ignore? How can you be accountable when you don't know where true good lies?-If you do something for your karma, then you do it in an interested way. Doing good to save your ass is not doing good. It is selfishness.-What would be the utility of Karma? What would it bring? What does it bring to Life? What does it bring to God? What does it bring to you?

 

- Karma  is like showing you two paths, telling you that you can walk the one you want, but that in this one you are going to be punished. Why giving the choice if the it is sanctioned? This is completely absurd.Etc, etc, I could think and find further things. But I have to sleep. I have posted too soon. I do not master the subject. I get caught up by my revolt against something as absurd and unealthy as Karma. Does this notion make you feel good?. Really? There is no truth in what doesn't make you feel good.-  

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Rhiannon

The way I think of karma is that we have to make a distinction between our human sense of justice, fairness, and retribution, which includes things like unfairness and the option of forgiveness and mercy; 

 

and karma (if it does exist, but for the sake of this argument I'm taking that as axiomatic), which is more like a concept from physics. Like a wave function, in which the entire wave only exists if you have an equal amount of up and down, back and forth, or whatever. So it's not payback, it's just causality.

 

You can't really talk about God and karma together, because the schools of thought that believe in karma as an explanation don't believe in God as an explanation. God and karma don't coexist. 

 

And karma as a concept only works in the context of multiple incarnations, another can of worms.

 

Okay, that's all totally intellectual and useless and in no way addresses your suffering, and the issues of how to frame one's suffering and the injustice of life and why terrible things can happen to good people. 

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Roads

I don't see why I would have to comply the paradigmatic limitations of others and schools of thoughts. This is their problem, not mine. I am not here to  play by the rules, but to take whatever can be useful to me and what I am trying to do. I am the the servitor of Truth, not of systems, So, when, you tell me that I can't talk about God and Karma together, you are pointing out a paradigmatic incompatibility, the arbitrary exclusion stated by systems of thoughts, not a logical incompatiblity. It is an argument from authority, what I personally call a submissive argument, which has no logical value. Prove the incompatibility and I will join your point. It is time that men free themselves from paradigmatic reductionism and submission. Truth is not in adherence. Truth is in insight. Besides, Truth is also everywhere (often buried below a pile of junk), Systems of thoughts are nothing but intellectual entrenchment onto a piece of Truth that excludes the others.  Truth is in reunification not in separation. Just like Good. Therefore I am not interested in playing the noxious game of schools. I am not interested in separation or intellectual camping. I want everything.  The only Truth that must be respected is the universe's one. Not systems' one. 

 

Yes Karma only works in the context of multiple incarnations. Where did I say I did not believe in reincarnation? I believe in reincarnation, not in karma. I also believe in God. Where is the problem?

 

 

Don't lump together Justice and retribution. Retribution is what you called our human sense of justice, and indeed implies punishment and mercy, and all the induced crap, like you said. But this is not Justice. Divine Justice doesn't lie in retribution at all. I wont try to define it now because I am not ready. By the way, there is no mercy, because there is nothing to forgive. Sin doesn't exist. You are always loved, even when you do something you call bad. You can't do anything bad. Useless and/harmful, yes, that's for sure, but not bad. I will maybe develop later on the subject, I don't know.There is Justice. But you are right, it has nothing to do with our human justice. This is not a reason to ditch it and tolerate a substitute which is not more acceptable because there is no responsibe person.

 

 

 

 

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alexjuice

I don't see why I would have to comply the paradigmatic limitations of others and schools of thoughts. This is their problem, not mine. I am not here to  play by the rules, but to take whatever can be useful to me and what I am trying to do.

Hey Roads,

I never saw your posts before these two.

 

How come you live in France? You write well in English so I assume it is your native language... In any case, I am going to read a bit of your thread, if one exists, to try to get a better feelnig for what you are going through...

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Roads

No, french is my native language. I am french. English is everywhere, especially when you look for information, so you have to know it. I don't master your language at all, I have to use a dictionary sometimes. By the way, I love it.:)I thank you for leaning on my story. But I haven't explained it properly. And I don't want to. It doesn't interest me anymore. It is the technical details. I don't believe in it anymore, I deeply feel like they are illusions. I don't know what I am going through, honestly. I don't know at all. I don't want to label. I just want to be in the now.

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Roads

In fact Karma is causality, yes, but not applied to the determination of your future lives, but to the determination of your well-being. When you do harm, you do harm to yourself. When you do good, you do good to yourself. There is no real separation between you and the other. It does not mean you are not yourself. You are marvelously yourself. But you are connected to everything and everyone, since you are God. This is Karma.  

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