btdt Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Do you think lidocaine as an amine drug can cause reactions in people with histamine issues? I got the idea from reading your blog and having a reaction to lidocaine which was deemed not an allergy... still have not been to the dentist since. I am struggling to digest the information posted in the links above... one other thing that comes to mind right off the hop in the old days at pp... a UK posted put up a link to the history of of ssri drugs- basically the base drug was an antihistamine. I can't help wonder if the human histamine system has been messed up from taking these drugs." And the most thorough food list I’ve found: from this website with these notes: Note: Amine Food List Ingredients in italics are guesses based on related items and personal experience." This is where I got the clue. " Back to the drawing board. WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 this posts needs to be moved to the histamine intolerance thread, but I can't figure out how to do it...in any case...that list is long and complicated but it 's not particularly accurate...everyone is different...it's better to figure out your own list otherwise you end up eating practically nothing. and most drugs trigger me...I don't know if it's a histamine issue or something else...I sure wouldn't want to mess with lidocaine, knowing my general issues with hyper-sensitivities. it's hard to tease this stuff all out...but it's possible. I highly recommend The Low Histamine Chef if you want help...she's doing the best work out there on this topic now. http://thelowhistaminechef.com/ Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btdt Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 this posts needs to be moved to the histamine intolerance thread, but I can't figure out how to do it...in any case...that list is long and complicated but it 's not particularly accurate...everyone is different...it's better to figure out your own list otherwise you end up eating practically nothing. and most drugs trigger me...I don't know if it's a histamine issue or something else...I sure wouldn't want to mess with lidocaine, knowing my general issues with hyper-sensitivities. it's hard to tease this stuff all out...but it's possible. I highly recommend The Low Histamine Chef if you want help...she's doing the best work out there on this topic now. http://thelowhistaminechef.com/ Thanks for the link I will go there and take a look as much as I like to get a solid understanding of things before I try them... it would appear my brain is not going to co operate for any detail learning today so will go there and take a look at the recipes. Thanks for the help. WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btdt Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 this posts needs to be moved to the histamine intolerance thread, but I can't figure out how to do it...in any case...that list is long and complicated but it 's not particularly accurate...everyone is different...it's better to figure out your own list otherwise you end up eating practically nothing. and most drugs trigger me...I don't know if it's a histamine issue or something else...I sure wouldn't want to mess with lidocaine, knowing my general issues with hyper-sensitivities. it's hard to tease this stuff all out...but it's possible. I highly recommend The Low Histamine Chef if you want help...she's doing the best work out there on this topic now. http://thelowhistaminechef.com/ How do you get dental work done if you don't use lidocaine or some form of freezing? I have had many dental issue post Effexor and am in need of a dentists care again now. I have an apt already though I am scared to death to go. I can't let infected teeth just continue unchecked either. Could you tell me what effect probiotics had on your histamine was there a clear cut example? I am just curious as it has been suggested by docs that I take them continually I feel unwell and need to balance just enough probiotics to keep symptoms down. WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarannamated Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 "Sauerkraut with live cultures is a great source of Lactobacillus plantarum, another type that's been found to be very helpful." Is this naturally occurring or added to sauerkraut? Also, any thoughts on PREbiotic + PRObiotic combinations? Thanks. Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted October 17, 2013 Administrator Share Posted October 17, 2013 The bacteria is what makes sauerkraut sauerkraut. It is naturally occurring. Prebiotics are good, too. You get a lot of prebiotics from roughage. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btdt Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I want to clarify my previous post. When digestion was a severe issue for me I took acidophilus off he shelf in the drug store three capsule three times a day for 30 days to clear up green jello bowel movements. It worked. Since that time I have moved up to the health food variety that are found in the refrigerator at health food stores I use natural factors protec acidophilus it seems to do the trick when I need to take antibiotics. I use it the same way three capsules in apple sauce... find one time a day works to keep digestion on track when I need to take antibiotics. I did a search on Bifidobacterium adolescentis weeded out some sites and came to this one I think maybe valuable in the study of probiotics. http://www.powerofprobiotics.com/Bifidobacterium.html Interesting page of side effects of probiotics http://www.powerofprobiotics.com/Side-effects-of-probiotics.html Whole raw food source of probiotics http://www.powerofprobiotics.com/Whole-foods.html WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted October 18, 2013 Administrator Share Posted October 18, 2013 Thanks for that info, btdt. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted October 19, 2013 Administrator Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) In the US, Nature's Way carries a number of bifidobacteria probiotic supplements. Some do not require refrigeration, so they can be mail-ordered.These look good: Nature's Way Primadophilus Probifia, containing bifidobacterium infantis (does not require refrigeration); and Nature's Way Primadophilus Bifidus, other bifidos but no bifidobacterium infantis (requires refrigeration). Regarding Nature's Way Primadophilus Bifidus, iHerb says These items are not shipped with ice packs. We were told by Nature's Way that is not necessary to have it refrigerated during transit. Here is their response, "Primadophilus can be out of refrigeration for a few days without losing the potency. We add extra cultures to allow for the product to be out of refrigeration for shipping and manufacturing. But for long term storage in order to hold the potency the product should be stored in the refrigerator." We do keep the product refrigerated while it is in here and we suggest you do the same when the item is received. So if you trust your shipper, I guess you can mail order even Nature's Way probiotics that require refrigeration. Edited October 21, 2013 by Altostrata updated This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted October 24, 2013 Administrator Share Posted October 24, 2013 Target carries a bifido probiotic including b. infantis under their Up brand. Claims to not need refrigeration. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitelily Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Has anyone else had this? After taking Vitamin B Complex (two split doses of B50) the first time, I felt a bit 'strange' - don't know how else to describe it - then I got very sleepy and went to sleep all afternoon. Then several days later, it's happened again - without feeling strange - but I've slept most of the day (which for me us unusual because usually I'm too tense). Overall, I'm really pleased that I'm feeling much more relaxed since taking B Complex - but I'm wondering why its having this affect? Could it be that my brain/body is healing and therefore needing to sleep? I noticed that B Complex is not necessarily recommended here because of a possible interaction with the medication. I wondered if it were interacting, what the likely symptoms would be?? History:- 1993: - prescribed Prozac - soon started having momentary episodes of psychosis - 1994: psychotic breakdown - prescribed high doses of antipsychotics including Depixol, Chlorpromazine (with procyclidine to control pacing) and later prescribed olanzapine, haloperidol, risperidone with different antidepressants (relapsed or crashed each time I tried to reduce or withdraw from meds). Can't recall all combinations of drugs have been on. 2007: amisulpride 400mg & venlafaxine 75mg 2013: Got down to 150mg amisulpride, but hospitalised with v.bad psychosis after dropping to this dose and coerced into taking 600mg (always hit problems when dropping below 200mg) 2014: reduced and then problematic symptoms of psychosis, mid-Dec - back up to 200mg, Feb 2015 had reduced to 180.5mg crashed badly and suddenly and hospitalised : prescribed 300mg amisulpride, 10 mg aripripazole, 50 mg sertraline. Gradually reduced to 60.75mg amisulpride and 10mg abilify only by Dec 2016. shortly after 30/1/17 two days paranoia, held and stabilised. made 2.5% reductions in amisulpride to get to 50mg amisulpride plus 10mg abilify. Held for long period of time to let CNS stabilise as unable to tolerate any more reductions (from Aug 2017) April 2018 40mg amisulpride and 10mg abilify. Current Meds: 17.6mg amisulpride, 10mg abilify plus 2000mg metformin for type II diabetes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member cymbaltawithdrawal5600 Posted April 19, 2014 Member Share Posted April 19, 2014 The problem some people find is that b's are too activating. Why they had this effect on you is a mystery to me. We are all so different. I don't think they react to meds per se. What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878 July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site. Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meimeiquest Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I have strong effects from b vitamins, niacin really calms me. I have been reading about nutrient therapy for mental illness (I am one of the few here who thinks they have "something wrong", so this probably doesn't apply to you)...you can read about it in the resources section of mensahmedical.com. Also, there is some info in the thread on methylation and b vitamins. Those would be underlying principles, but with withdrawal predictability is out the window, 1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms. Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12 Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13 Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15 11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble) 9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol 7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol 56 years old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted April 21, 2014 Administrator Share Posted April 21, 2014 whitelily, it could be your body badly needed those B vitamins. Sleep is healing. Try to stay on a regular schedule, though. I wish B vitamins made me sleepy! This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitelily Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Thanks for your replies. Altostrata - I think that maybe I really needed them too. I decided to take them after reading about links between schizophrenia and niacin deficiency - and I thought that niacin is better absorbed with the rest of the B's. I have a similar diagnosis to schizophrenia - schizoaffective disorder - although I never had any problems until I was prescribed Prozac many years ago. I just thought I'd play safe and take the vitamins in case there's an underlying imbalance. I'm going to continue to take them as I taper my dose. 1 History:- 1993: - prescribed Prozac - soon started having momentary episodes of psychosis - 1994: psychotic breakdown - prescribed high doses of antipsychotics including Depixol, Chlorpromazine (with procyclidine to control pacing) and later prescribed olanzapine, haloperidol, risperidone with different antidepressants (relapsed or crashed each time I tried to reduce or withdraw from meds). Can't recall all combinations of drugs have been on. 2007: amisulpride 400mg & venlafaxine 75mg 2013: Got down to 150mg amisulpride, but hospitalised with v.bad psychosis after dropping to this dose and coerced into taking 600mg (always hit problems when dropping below 200mg) 2014: reduced and then problematic symptoms of psychosis, mid-Dec - back up to 200mg, Feb 2015 had reduced to 180.5mg crashed badly and suddenly and hospitalised : prescribed 300mg amisulpride, 10 mg aripripazole, 50 mg sertraline. Gradually reduced to 60.75mg amisulpride and 10mg abilify only by Dec 2016. shortly after 30/1/17 two days paranoia, held and stabilised. made 2.5% reductions in amisulpride to get to 50mg amisulpride plus 10mg abilify. Held for long period of time to let CNS stabilise as unable to tolerate any more reductions (from Aug 2017) April 2018 40mg amisulpride and 10mg abilify. Current Meds: 17.6mg amisulpride, 10mg abilify plus 2000mg metformin for type II diabetes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted April 23, 2014 Administrator Share Posted April 23, 2014 It could be you were low in some B vitamins all along. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernFreeze Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 A naturopath gave me a strong b vitamin supplement to take everyday. I took it in the morning and it did make me feel drowsy for a whil. I ran out of that supplement and brought something else, similar but in capsule form and now i think it makes me kind of agitated. 10 years on various anti-depressants 5 years Effexor xr tappered of 150mg in 6 months nothing for two weeks Reinstated 15 beads for 50 days Tappered off then clean 2-3months gradually went back up to 13 mg 3 years bridged fluoxetine 10mg 2 week tapper 1 year clean reinstated 5ml dispersed fluroxatine for 6months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Hello everyone. This is an old post but very relevant, wanted to share my experience. A week ago I started taking a B-vitamin complex containing B6, B9 and B12. on day 4 I started feeling worse, more anxious and desperate. On day 7 I had a horrible burst of anxiety so I have decided to stop taking the tablets. I may try the B12 alone in the future. What is the beneficial effect that those of you taking B-12 have noticed? Thanks, jose 1999-2004 citalopram 10 to 20mg with 2-3 withdrawal attempts.2004 fluvoxamine for 4-5 months aprox. Changed to venlafaxine because of the headaches and dizziness.2005-March 2014 venlafaxine usually starting on 150mg and coming down to 75 or 37.5. Several withdrawal attempts.In March 2014 I stopped taking 37.5mg of venlafaxine without tapering. Went through 5 months of confusion, anxiety, insomnia and desperation. From then I am very slowly recovering, on windows and waves. Symptoms: muscle stiffness and aches, shortness of breath, abdominal pain, memory loss, inability to concentrate or think straight, difficulty to speak, difficulty to read (improving). Taking omega3, magnesium, calcium, vitamin E and probiotics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlitelotus Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 So I know when going through withdrawal taking certain supplements is not a good idea. For me B vitamin complex especially not ok even when my nervous system is normal they make me have anxiety. But I have read that B vitamins are good for repairing the nervous system and nurotransmitters. I was wondering if anyone has tried nutritional yeast flakes, you put it on top of your food, it is a great source of B vitamins and other nutrients and minerals. I figure since I am trying to heal my body with good nutrition from food and yeast flakes are a type of food that maybe it wouldn't over load my nervous system like a B complex vitamin would. Has anyone tried this?? If not maybe I will and let you guys know how it goes. This might be a way to naturally get the B vitamins we need without over stimulating our nervous systems. 1 I started out on zoloft 50 mg or 20mg (can't remember at that point) and was on it for a few months then decided I didn't want to take it because of the side effects so I cold turkey'd it and then was miserable and reinstated and all my symptoms went away and I felt normal. Stayed on it for a while tried lexapro 5mg for a month or two instead to see if I had less side effects. Then switched back to zoloft 20mg I think and weaned down to 6mg and jumped off too soon because it supposedly wasn't a "therapeutic dose" and was told it would be ok. Then I was going through withdrawal again so I reinstated again after about a month I switched to prozac because it's easier to wean off of supposedly. Weaned off over 9 month from 8mg Prozac. Then two months after stopping it on September 2, 2014. I went into withdrawal. 18 months off as of March 2, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btdt Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I want to clarify my previous post. When digestion was a severe issue for me I took acidophilus off he shelf in the drug store three capsule three times a day for 30 days to clear up green jello bowel movements. It worked. Since that time I have moved up to the health food variety that are found in the refrigerator at health food stores I use natural factors protec acidophilus it seems to do the trick when I need to take antibiotics. I use it the same way three capsules in apple sauce... find one time a day works to keep digestion on track when I need to take antibiotics. I did a search on Bifidobacterium adolescentis weeded out some sites and came to this one I think maybe valuable in the study of probiotics. http://www.powerofprobiotics.com/Bifidobacterium.html Interesting page of side effects of probiotics http://www.powerofprobiotics.com/Side-effects-of-probiotics.html Whole raw food source of probiotics http://www.powerofprobiotics.com/Whole-foods.html The first link above contains align... sold at the drug store my sister had it at her house when i was visiting and I tried it ... and I do not like it... I cannot put my finger on it now but it was not as good as my usual kind natural factors - acid bifid... but which I now think I can't take any longer as it seems to cause pain in my feet... so I am shopping for something new. I use it to treat the runs... that is the only thing I have ever used it for ... but I can't seem tolerate the amounts of the NF that I need to treat it.. and thing new round has been going on since before xmass hence the shopping. Till this point recently I have been using pepto which I need to take every few days... but that is not a long term answer. peace all WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meimeiquest Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I made cultured veggies this summer (but the green tomatoes were horrible) and now do kefir and fermented applesauce and mayo. It's easy once you get going, and the food supposedly contains more organisms than pills. I made dandelions from our unsprayed yard...not exactly delish but hopefully healthy. Two websites: culturesforhealth.com and coolinginflammation.blogspot.com. 1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms. Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12 Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13 Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15 11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble) 9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol 7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol 56 years old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btdt Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I made cultured veggies this summer (but the green tomatoes were horrible) and now do kefir and fermented applesauce and mayo. It's easy once you get going, and the food supposedly contains more organisms than pills. I made dandelions from our unsprayed yard...not exactly delish but hopefully healthy. Two websites: culturesforhealth.com and coolinginflammation.blogspot.com. I will take a look tho I don't trust food they say is organic either yep I am a cynic... i watched a show on tv how they just package the food however they please organic or not. I know there is not honor left in the world.. it is nuts. Same with fish it says Canadian fish but it came in on a boat from China and was put in a box in Canada... and around we go. Lol I need a bit of land to grow a garden.. oh here we go something else to miss about my long lost house.. nope not going there I am growing thicker skin... I will take a look at the site but am not sure where I would get any organic food in Feb that I could trust. coolinginflammation.blogspot.com. is not working just now.. love this one culturesforhealth.com I may have to try for a credit card if I can't find something like this close to home.. nope don't do credit ...credit is bad for poor people lol great site tho... thanks WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meimeiquest Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 You're right. I do trust the dandelions but they're not really accessible right now. Have you ever tried milk kefir? But, really, you are under so much stress, probiotics might be your best bet. 1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms. Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12 Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13 Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15 11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble) 9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol 7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol 56 years old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btdt Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Yes I was drinking 6 oz a day I was buying it in the "orangic" section of a grocery store. I love butter milk so had at least one of them a wk... now I have backed off dairy since the doc said no dairy since this "flu" thing started early Dec Late Nov... I was also taking alovera juice I have stopped all that due to doctors orders. WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikam Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 What are people's views on vit B6? I took 50mg yesterday evening and have had a splitting headache all day and feeling more tired... http://www.livestrong.com/article/317889-vitamin-b6-toxicity-symptoms/ Is this possible that we get this toxic levels faster? - 12.03.2021- doxepin- 50mg - 6.11.2020- 75mg - 16.10.2020- 100mg - 30.09.2020- doxepin- 125mg - May 2020, omeprazole 40mg switched to esomeprazole 20mg - 2012 re-started Doxepin 75mg, evening. Increased to 150mg - 2012, Atenolol 25mg, twice a day - 2016, Low dose of HRT in evening, Sandrena and Utrogestan - Long term of Nasal spray Otrivine - 2012, PPI Omeprazole 40mg-evening 24.10.2014- Started ESCITALOPRAM-first 5mg and then 10mg; due to the adverse symptoms reduced on 5.01.2015- Escitalopram- 2.5mg 22.07.2016- re-started reduction by 1% at a time. Completed tappering on 19.03.2020 😇 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLB Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 There is 500 mg. In my melatonin i take and i dont have any bad effects. But who knows what will happen in different people. I found that there are so many differences in peoples reactions. I cant find any suppliment that has been bad for me yet. Paxil start September 2003 due to Fluoroquinolone adverse reaction that I wish doc. knew what it was. 10mg. most of the time with a few short runs of 20mg. FAST tapered 3 times and finally hit poop out or a reaction to nsaid's in Nov.2013. Started a 10% taper Jan. 2014 and have been ok until Sept 14 and went through a short hell. Now plodding through and looking for the light with unrelenting insomnia and pain, fog, loss of interests....<p>12/20/14 - .8mg. 1/01/15 - .75 mg. 1/15/15 - .42 mg. better sleep now, hope it continues... 2/11-15 - .25 mg. doing really good!! 2 weeks feel 85% of old me! 3/17/15 .14 mg. Knee pain bad! 4/07/15 .05 mg. this is so small now that I am estimating and just licking it off palm small as a "." 4/13/15 NOTHING !!!! Took my last little micro dose on 4/12/15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidepressantsNoMore Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 B-6 is too stimulating for me. For others, it relaxes them. What are you taking b6 for? anxiety? energy? trintellix 1 mg and rexulti .5mg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikam Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 B-6 is too stimulating for me. For others, it relaxes them. What are you taking b6 for? anxiety? energy? It is apparently good for nervous system. I was hoping it may help with pareshesia. I took aa50mg...mabe the headache was only temporary and I should stay on it? - 12.03.2021- doxepin- 50mg - 6.11.2020- 75mg - 16.10.2020- 100mg - 30.09.2020- doxepin- 125mg - May 2020, omeprazole 40mg switched to esomeprazole 20mg - 2012 re-started Doxepin 75mg, evening. Increased to 150mg - 2012, Atenolol 25mg, twice a day - 2016, Low dose of HRT in evening, Sandrena and Utrogestan - Long term of Nasal spray Otrivine - 2012, PPI Omeprazole 40mg-evening 24.10.2014- Started ESCITALOPRAM-first 5mg and then 10mg; due to the adverse symptoms reduced on 5.01.2015- Escitalopram- 2.5mg 22.07.2016- re-started reduction by 1% at a time. Completed tappering on 19.03.2020 😇 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidepressantsNoMore Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 B-6 is too stimulating for me. For others, it relaxes them. What are you taking b6 for? anxiety? energy? It is apparently good for nervous system. I was hoping it may help with pareshesia. I took aa50mg...mabe the headache was only temporary and I should stay on it? Try taking it again. Maybe you didn't drink enough water. Magnesium is good for easing the mind and nerves. I take 1000 mg every morning. trintellix 1 mg and rexulti .5mg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikam Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 B-6 is too stimulating for me. For others, it relaxes them. What are you taking b6 for? anxiety? energy? It is apparently good for nervous system. I was hoping it may help with pareshesia. I took aa50mg...mabe the headache was only temporary and I should stay on it? Try taking it again. Maybe you didn't drink enough water. Magnesium is good for easing the mind and nerves. I take 1000 mg every morning. I am not taking magnesium yet, as it tend to cause diarrhea... I am not going to take anything at present...looks I am still quite sensitive... - 12.03.2021- doxepin- 50mg - 6.11.2020- 75mg - 16.10.2020- 100mg - 30.09.2020- doxepin- 125mg - May 2020, omeprazole 40mg switched to esomeprazole 20mg - 2012 re-started Doxepin 75mg, evening. Increased to 150mg - 2012, Atenolol 25mg, twice a day - 2016, Low dose of HRT in evening, Sandrena and Utrogestan - Long term of Nasal spray Otrivine - 2012, PPI Omeprazole 40mg-evening 24.10.2014- Started ESCITALOPRAM-first 5mg and then 10mg; due to the adverse symptoms reduced on 5.01.2015- Escitalopram- 2.5mg 22.07.2016- re-started reduction by 1% at a time. Completed tappering on 19.03.2020 😇 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura1981 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I had burning, tingling headaches (parathesia?) and explosions in my head. I don't think the explosions were brain zaps because they gave me a burning headache and nausea after they happened. I also had involuntary movements and tremor. All of the above got much, much better when I started taking 100mg vitamin b6 per day. Not sure if vit b6 is activating me too much. It's true I have racing thoughts and sometimes get agitated. Although the racing thoughts were there before the vitamin b6. I am trying to battle the racing thoughts with b12 now and it seems to make a difference. Feb 2015 Took venlafaxine for 5 days only... experienced withdrawal that made me completely non-functional Mar 2015 took under 1mg of Sertraline for 10 days in an attempt to combat Venlafaxine withdrawal. Got adverse reactions. After stopping Sertraline, withdrawal got much worse. New, horrific symptoms. June 2015 Still non-functional but slowly getting better. Still brain zaps, migraines, sweating, heart racing, depression, crying spells September 2015: 24/7 brain zaps, twitches in the face, no concentration, bad memory, language skills deteriorating. Profile feed: http://goo.gl/3g2GRn Sign this petition for a blackbox warning on Prozac in Ireland: https://www.change.org/p/leo-varadakar-hpra-the-lack-of-a-blackbox-warning-on-prozac-in-ireland-and-its-use-by-the-hse-in-under-18-s?recruiter=63289046&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_term=des-lg-no_src-no_msg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a99 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 B6 might be fine for "regular" anxiety but it does something to our hypersensitive nervous systems it doesn't do to normal nervous systems. A lot of things recommended for depression or anxiety are like that. They may work well in normal nervous systems, not so well in nervous systems sensitized by withdrawal. Which is one reason I say you can't treat withdrawal as though it were relapse. And what about the B vitamins provided by nutrition ? Do they cause any over stimulation or a bad reaction ? On and off prozac from 2010 -2014 . Several failed fast tapers and reinstatements . Cold turkey : March 2014 . ----------------------------------------- took lysanxia 40 mg a day for almost a year november -14- 2018 weaned to 30 mg november -26- 2018 weaned to 20 mg symptoms that got better : fatigue current symptoms : severe anxiety one rescue dose (10 mg ) december -15 -2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted November 7, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted November 7, 2015 @ non-Aussies VEGEMITE!!! Sorry, just couldn't resist that. CC * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonnegutjunky Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 So I started taking a new multivitamin with b complex on Friday night- I don't know if this is the result of my window on Saturday? Anyway the normal dose is 2 per day, I have only been taking 1 - well I have not eaten anything today (Sunday) and took my vitamin, about 40min after I took it, I started getting goosebumps everywhere and this excited happy feeling like you get right before your going on a rollercoaster; this made me very anxious and worried; I also had to use the bathroom because of it; I was reading b vitamins can do this and read the niacin can also create these feelings - I have to say I feel much much better these last few days, however am I getting too much b vitamins because of this reaction? Can I cut my vitamin In half? They are chewable gummies - *Currently at 8.2-8.5 mg of my 10mg pill of Paxil (they actually weigh 12.5mg) january 2023 I began reducing my med again. I was a 9mg weight for years, I went to 8.9 in January, went to 8.6mg in February, and in March 2023 I went down to 8.5-8.2 mg ( my scale varies, so I stick within that .3 range because of that) *No other supplements or vitamins *Taper schedule in the pdf Blank.pdf https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-5vShtJtwAOGA30OxIP87steLmMdFzD29F0fzAPD564 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Petunia Posted November 23, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted November 23, 2015 Topics merged. VJ, please search and add to existing topics before starting new ones, this keeps all the collected information, experiences and wisdom in one thread, easily found through searches. People in withdrawal often have this kind of reaction to mixed vitamin B supplements, some of the B vitamins can be too stimulating for a sensitized nervous system. If you want to keep taking it, you could try cutting it in half or quarters. As with all supplements, if you are in withdrawal or tapering, start with a fraction of the recommended dose to see how you react. You can always increase the dose if you get no bad reaction or an increase in symptoms. I'm not a doctor. My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one. My Introduction Thread Full Drug and Withdrawal History Brief Summary Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects 2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010 Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal) May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins. Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens. Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days. April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close. VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from? VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made? VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes? VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects? VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonnegutjunky Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Ok thank you petunia - I did a search but for whatever reasons could not find anything specific / I may be been to hasty - Would it benefit me to continue to take them? Also I took them at night, probably not a good idea - *Currently at 8.2-8.5 mg of my 10mg pill of Paxil (they actually weigh 12.5mg) january 2023 I began reducing my med again. I was a 9mg weight for years, I went to 8.9 in January, went to 8.6mg in February, and in March 2023 I went down to 8.5-8.2 mg ( my scale varies, so I stick within that .3 range because of that) *No other supplements or vitamins *Taper schedule in the pdf Blank.pdf https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-5vShtJtwAOGA30OxIP87steLmMdFzD29F0fzAPD564 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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