panic27

[panic27]

Things are much worse - I never should've messed with the SSRI dose. That was a stupid impulsive decision.

My past two days so far:

 

Quote

2018-11-02
12:00 - I wake up, slight anxiety. sleep quality okay.
13:15 - I get up.
13:20 - 4mg citalopram and 0.25mg lorazepam. breakfast: cereal with decaf. anxiety increases.
13:30 - friend comes over, we go for a walk. daylight hurts my eyes. I'm finding it difficult to keep the conversation going. We discuss things I used to enjoy but I just don't care anymore. The thought of doing these "normal" things again invokes strong feelings of dread and anxiety.
15:30 - friend leaves, I feel tired. try to play solitaire but can't concentrate. heightened irritablity (noise).
16:30 - I go for another walk but my legs and back are so sore I have to return early. dizziness increases.
17:00 - lorazepam 0.25mg
17:30 - feel sad and very sleepy. cant stop yawning. dizziness and anxiety are better now.
18:00 - lunch: 2x bread with pork liver paté and ketchup. I feel hungry but struggle to get any food down.
19:00 - intrusive memories/flashbacks. dizziness again.
21:00 - muscle aches, mild tremor. sweaty palms. some dizziness
21:30 - lorazepam 0.25mg
21:45 - painfully cold feet
22:15 - light exercise
23:30 - blurry vision and dizziness. muscle aches/twitches in legs. mind feels more hazy.
0:45 - heart palpitations (skipping beats)
1:15 - 2mg citalopram. dinner: lasagna
2:00 - slight anxiety, dizziness
2:30 - lorazepam 0.325mg. multivitamin
3:00 - feeling tired. muscles twitching all over.
3:15 - sleep

 

2018-11-03
11:?? - I wake up. both arms numb. feeling very confused and sleepy still but can't fall back asleep. minor zaps. sleep quality somewhat worse (briefly woke a few times)
13:45 - I eventually get up. take 0.25mg lorazepam and 2mg citalopram (think I'll go back to 4mg/day)
14:00 - breakfast: cereal and decaf. makinf breakfast is difficult. I do everything in the wrong order
15:00 - anxiety increases. butterflies, sweaty palms. heart rate 110bpm.
16:00 - feeling weak and dizzy. flu-like symptoms. can't think straight.
17:00 - brief walk. feeling dizzy and spaced-out. my mind is a mess.
17:30 - lorazepam 0.25mg
18:30 - feeling so miserable. tired too. temperature 37.9C
19:00 - 2x bread with liver pate and ketchup.
19:15 - ice cold feet
21:15 - feeling slightly better physically. mentally not so much.
21:30 - lorazepam 0.25mg
22:30 - intense dizziness
23:30 - cheese burger with pickles
0:00 - still weak and sick. feels like i'm stuck in a bad dream, worse than the past two weeks. very depressed mood. no anxiety.
1:00 - multivitamin

[panic27]

Today so far:

 

Quote

1:00 - multivitamin
1:45 - some anxiety. heart skipping beats
3:00 - lorazepam 0.375mg. citalopram 2mg
3:15 - bedtime

 

2018-11-04
15:00 - I get up. don't remember when I woke. still feel confused. sleep quality okay, but with nightmares.
15:15 - lorazepam 0.25mg. breakfast: cereal and decaf.
15:45 - anxiety symptoms. mental clarity maybe slightly better than yesterday.
16:45 - citalopram 2mg.
18:00 - 2x bread with pate and ketchup.
19:00 - still weak and dizzy. very depressed mood.
19:30 - chest pain. feeling anxious and restless. hungry despite having just eaten.
20:00 - lorazepam 0.25mg.
21:00 - ice cold feet. some dizziness.
21:45 - stomach pain, burping, some nausea. little anxiety.
22:45 - had some leftover lasagna. still hungry.
23:45 - lorazepam 0.25mg.
0:15 - some muscles twitching. feel restless but I should be sleeping early today.
1:30 - citalopram 2mg.
1:45 - still hungry and restless. can't sit still. can't concentrate. there's no way I'll be able sleep like this.
2:15 - intense dizziness. blurry vision

 

[ChessieCat]

Have you got any more days' notes to post?

[Altostrata]

It's important to take the drugs at the same dosages and same times each day. Even an hour or two variation can cause withdrawal symptoms.

 

There's a lot of variation even in these few days' notes. Please stop taking your drugs ad hoc. This is confusing your symptom pattern.

 

Do not randomly take vitamins or any supplement.

 

Since you started it in August, we have to assume you are physiologically dependent on the benzo. If you stop suddenly or reduce too much, you can get horrible withdrawal symptoms. We have to go very carefully with your drugs now.

 

Did you skip your evening dose of citalopram on November 3?

 

How much citalopram are you taking now, at what dosages and what times of day? How much lorazepam, at what dosages and what times of day?

 

What is your sleep schedule? How is your sleep?

 

[panic27]

I feel like I need to post an update but I don't know what to say really. I barely remember what happened during the past year. Or even last week. The memories I do have don't feel like my own.

 

Last time I posted here I didn't think it could get any worse. That was a bit naive, to say the least.

 

Documenting my days turned out to require too much mental effort. And I didn't want to focus all the time on symptoms and how miserable I felt. I kept on tapering, no sudden changes, I have it all documented in an excel sheet. Things went up and down a bit, going by my github account I had some good days in June where I was able to work on stuff. I eventually came off the celexa in July, while going through yet another breakdown or whatever that was, I was on 0.6mg at that point. My mind went blank after that and I now don't feel like a person anymore.

 

I was kinda hoping it would get better from there on but it hasn't. It's just getting worse by the day. I'm not even sure if this is all withdrawal but I'm definitely convinced these drugs have made things a lot worse than they otherwise could have been.

[eymen23]

Hi Panic27,

 

I’m very sorry to hear how much you’ve been struggling as of late. 
 

When you mention jumping from Citalopram in June and whilst going through a breakdown, what kind of symptoms were you experiencing and do you know what may have triggered the breakdown you mention? Were there external factors causing you a lot of stress or did this feel like it was related to drugs/withdrawal? 
 

I know you mention how you found it difficult to make notes as it required a lot of concentration and it made you focus on the negativity of the symptoms, but would it be possible to write up 1-2 days of notes so we can understand the main types of symptoms you’re experiencing and any drugs you’re currently taking? You mention Valium in your signature, do you still take that intermittently? How about ampethamine type drugs? 
 

I’m wondering whether you jumped from too high a dose of Citalopram and it has caused or aggravated symptoms. Notes and answers to the questions above should really help us get a better picture so we can try and assist. 

[panic27]

Hey, thanks for your response.

 

It was probably a combination of factors that triggered the episode in July. Pressured by my psychiatrist at the time I sped up the taper, from 1.1 to 0.6mg in 10 days. I figured I was in the clear below 1mg and that since I was more or less off the benzos (since mid June) I had the worst behind me.

 

I skipped sleep in an attempt to get out of my nocturnal cycle, and then went out in public for the first time in months to get a haircut, so that was rather stressful. Right after that I remember thinking "that wasn't so bad" and I felt confident I could start doing more. Then three days later I had a massive panic attack right as I was falling asleep. Unlike any I've experienced so far. In fact I'm still not sure if that really was a panic attack. Up until that point I had been vaguely optimistic, but that night something changed.

 

I don't remember exactly what happened the days after that but I nearly went catatonic for a while. I was just so out of it. That hasn't improved since. Now it feels like my thoughts are racing but I'm not thinking about anything at all, if that makes any sense.

 

The valium I've been taking whenever I feel like I *really* can't handle things anymore. Which is basically every day but I try my best to keep a few days inbetween each dose. The longest I went without so far is 12 days. It's a near-placebo dose and I doubt it really does anything, but if it makes me feel a bit more in control then I think I need that.

 

Amphetamines I haven't touched in years, I can't even have caffeine anymore. No alcohol either. I do still smoke.

 

Also I should mention I tried reinstating recently. That was a mistake. At first it felt like I could think just a bit more clearly and express myself a little better. I had these very brief moments where I could just remember what it was like to feel "normal", that made me feel hopeful. Then by day 6 I had one of these breakdowns again and that messed me up even more. Guess 1mg was a bit too much. That was 4 days ago now and the past few days my anxiety levels have been through the roof again, although it's getting more manageable now.

 

During these "breakdowns" (for lack of a better word still) everything feels so intensely *weird*. Like I landed on a different planet, I don't recognize my surroundings. Words seem to have no meaning. Dream logic enters my thoughts, it briefly makes sense, and then I realize it doesn't and it scares me. It's been like that permanently since July 2018 but during these flare-ups it's a million times worse. I think it's an extreme anxiety state where my brain considers *everything* a threat. I can hardly do anything because everything just weirds me out and makes it worse.

 

Most of the day I just sit and wait for things to get better, while trying to come up with ways to describe this experience. I don't like to be melodramatic or anything but it's like no words have been invented for this. Just absolute hell. Sometimes I feel like I'm getting close but then when I try to write it down 5 minutes later I forget what I was on to. I can try and keep notes again but no promises.

[eymen23]

Panic27,

 

Thanks for describing your symptoms in more detail and I’m sorry to hear how difficult they are. It sounds like you are experiencing a lot depersonalisation and derealisation. This is common after intense stress or when the sympathetic nervous system becomes very overactive.
 

Many describe it as some sort of safety mechanism to aid in detaching from trauma, but having experienced this myself I know how frightening it can be of its own accord. It feels like you have emotionally shutdown and often your cognitive ability will be compromised too.

 

Looking through the timing you noted above, it sounds like the 45% drop you made from 1.1mg to 0.6mg destabilised your nervous system and along with a lack of sleep, may have triggered the initial panic attack and subsequent symptoms of nervous system destabilisation. Quitting Citalopram altogether will have only aggravated this destabilisation further. 
 

Sadly, 1mg is often too high a dose to jump from. Especially as the drug’s effect on serotonin transporter occupancy is most potent at lower doses. Many members find the taper hardest at the very end when the doses become small and hence you may have jumped at a point where you needed to do the opposite and go extra slowly. 
 

Nevertheless this has been done now and we can be glad that you did not jump from a higher dose. It’s a shame that reinstatement was unsuccessful and it’s quite possible that 1mg was too strong. You may have been better trying 0.25-0.5mg, but given your recent reaction you may be reluctant to try reinstatement again. I’m also conscious that it has been several months since you stopped the drug,  and whether attempting reinstatement carries too many risks. I’ll check with the other mods to see if they would recommend trying again with a lower dose. 
 

Whether you reinstate or not, you should find that your symptoms slowly begin to improve in the coming weeks and months, in a pattern known as ‘windows and waves’. To start with, you may find that you feel your are constantly in a wave, before having small and infrequent windows where symptoms reduce in intensity or disappear entirely. Over time, the windows tend to get longer and more frequent, until you find a much better baseline. 

This excellent post below describes the process very well and you may find it encouraging. 
 

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by eymen23

[panic27]

Yeah I won't be trying reinstatement any time soon. I need to calm down first and get back to some baseline, if such a thing exists. Today my experience is yet again so completely different from yesterday, but I can never pin-point what changed exactly. If I do somehow stabilize a bit I might try reinstating starting at 0.1mg, and seeing what happens over a week or two.

 

One psychiatrist told me I was experiencing the prodromal stages of schizophrenia and wanted to get me on antipsychotics. That seemed ridiculous to me at first, but the way this is going I'm actually starting to believe it. Either that or I'm developing dementia. Still I doubt more drugs are the answer.

 

The weird thing is that it just continues to get worse, even after being off the AD for a while now. I don't think I've ever experienced these windows. It's just wave after wave and I find it increasingly difficult to process what's going on.

For the first half of this past year I was quite sure it was all withdrawal. Or at least most of it. After all the problems already started while I was still on a stable dose, so I did have some doubts. Around February/March I developed double vision and saw a neurologist for that just to be sure, but the MRI came back clear so I went back to tapering. After the incident in July I started thinking there might be something physically wrong with me. So I went back to the neurologist who performed a lumbar puncture. The lab result came back all wrong and I still haven't been given any explanation as to what that means. All I was told was to get back on psych meds and stop wasting their time.

 

[panic27]

Quote

2019-12-10

9:45 - got up, woke up around 8:45
10:15 - breakfast. I have no appetite and can't finish it all.
11:45 - posting here. I feel very tense.
12:00 - mild headache/pressure. legs and feet are sore
12:30 - folate 500µg. vitamin D3 50µg.
12:45 - I think I feel a bit less depressed than yesterday. still miserable but things don't seem quite as hopeless.
13:15 - kinda feel like I want to do something, but I don't want to do anything. can't think clearly. feeling anxious again.
14:30 - browsing this site, I'm feeling weirdly calm and okay-ish. the moment I look away from the screen I'm instantly reminded how miserable this situation is.
14:45 - I want to cry again. headache is getting worse. I don't usually have headaches.
15:30 - feeling tired. also sad again.
16:00 - cleaning out the dishwasher. I need to do something to get my mind off things.
16:30 - anxiety spikes again for no reason.
16:45 - feeling so sleepy.
17:15 - don't know what to think. I don't care about anything and I feel like I don't exist. maybe I'm making it all up. feeling less anxious though.
17:45 - dinner. I feel so out of touch with reality.
19:30 - I want to cry again
20:00 - folate 500µg
21:00 - thinking goes weird again. it's making me anxious
21:30 - feeling very tense. I want to cry.
22:00 - it's all so overwhelming. I feel sad. mind is blank.
23:45 - sleep

 

2019-12-11

9:30 - get up, woke up around 5:00 and couldn't sleep much after.
9:45 - breakfast. can't finish it all.
11:15 - feeling very tense and anxious and I don't know why.
11:45 - the anxiety. it's unbearable.
13:00 - laying down trying not to think. feeling a bit less anxious.
14:00 - trying to write down how I feel. it's impossible. I feel like a different person while writing and don't remember what it was like 2 minutes ago.
14:15 - folate 500µg. vitamin D3 50µg
15:30 - went for a walk, first time in forever. it's all so surreal. I'm not really "there".
18:00 - dinner. thoughts go weird again. like words make no sense. it's making me anxious.
21:30 - folate 500µg. I forgot to keep notes.
22:30 - having a relatively clear moment. feeling extremely hot for no reason.
23:15 - mind is locking up again. I want to cry.
23:45 - feeling anxious again.
0:15 - incredibly anxious for no reason. hope I can get some sleep.
1:00 - sleep

 

2019-12-12

9:00 - get up. haven't slept much at all. wanted to cry all night but it didn't happen
9:30 - breakfast. I don't remember how I could ever eat a whole bowl of this.
9:45 - feeling really hot again.
10:15 - really sick and uncomfortable
12:15 - feeling so intensely irritable. everything annoys me to no end. I don't recognize myself in these feelings. is this really me?
14:45 - folate 500µg, vitamin D3 50µg
15:30 - anxiety again
16:00 - so extremely tense and dysphoric and annoyed. I cant deal with this. I can't believe this is my life now.
17:15 - trying to take a nap. can't sleep.
18:45 - dinner
19:15 - feeling a bit less miserable.
20:30 - things are almost manageable, as long as I don't think about anything or do anything.
20:45 - folate 500µg
21:45 - don't know how to feel. just zoning out.
22:30 - just sitting, not doing anything. I may have no life but at least I'm not freaking out about it.
23:45 - thoughts start locking up again. everything seems weird.
0:15 - having a nostalgic memory. the world seemed so serene back then. I can never experience that sense of joy and wonder ever again.
1:15 - sleep.

 

I tried to keep notes. Don't know how long I can keep doing this. Really I have no idea what to write. I just want to zone out and not think about this hell all the time.

[jozeff]

Hi panic,

 

Very sorry to hear you're having such a hard time.

 

I know, we want a window so bad and it just doesn't come. Some day, very suddenly a window is going to enlighten you. It might go away again and that will upset you. But another one will also come.

You have come a long way and healing has been happening since you jumped off. It doesn't feel that way but healing hurts you know

 

I've had times where I felt absolutely awful for weeks in a row. Suddenly you wake up feeling pretty normal and that can stay for a couple of days. It's how this works apparently.

 

 

Have a nice day with a restful mind.

 

Cheers

Jozeff

[panic27]

Hi jozeff, thanks for your support. I've been meaning to post back sooner but it's difficult to find the energy and collect my thoughts.

 

I'm still going through absolute hell. No windows in sight. It's just wave after wave after wave and each wave keeps eroding my personality and sense of self and reality. There's only the odd day inbetween when things are slightly more managable, but that is still so far removed from normal.

 

The only time I get any relief is when I sleep. If I can sleep at all. My dreams are chaotic and hazy now but at least the dream-me is functional and confident. Even nightmares feel more comforting than real life. Which is weird since while I was tapering I still felt *some* optimism during the day but I would be severely depressed and apathetic in my dreams.

 

Only positive news I have is that I went 25 days without valium. That's a new record.

 

[panic27]

Quick update.  The past few months were relatively stable.  Still hell, but quite stable.  Back around March I was able to work on some software projects and I even played a video game for a few days without breaking out in panic.  Then things slowly went south again and I returned to watching youtube and playing solitaire all day just to distract myself.  I felt stuck behind a wall of despair and any attempt to break through just made me feel more miserable.  Still, anxiety levels were a bit more tolerable than before.

 

Then just the other day after some (what should be) minor stress, I crashed again.  I hadn't slept well, and then went for a 20 minute walk, in a different place than usual.  Again, in an attempt to break through this "wall".  While doing so I felt the anxiety creeping back up, but I thought I had it under control and it was over by night. The next day I woke up feeling like the clock had been turned back a year.  So incredibly sick, like I'm in the middle of withdrawal again, it feels exactly the same.  Every day I feel like I'm in a different reality.  My thoughts are all over the place and I can't shake the idea that this hell will never end.  Is it still protracted withdrawal?  Maybe I really do need these drugs now?  There has to be something physically wrong with me.

 

[ChessieCat]

Q:  Are you still taking valium?  If yes, how often?

 

This topic was recently updated:  re-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

[panic27]

Hey, thanks for checking in.  Last valium dose was on January 19th, one day before my previous post.  I see I need to update my signature.

 

[panic27]

Some things I noticed:

 

I was taking 1mg folic acid for a few months due to deficiency.  I think I started feeling a bit worse again around the time I ran out (mid-April).  However the other day I had my levels checked and they're just within normal (except B12 which is always 2x the upper limit).  I've ordered methylfolate 1mg now to see if it helps.  Also some other supplements to try out.

 

In the past few months I was sleeping normally (8-10 hours) and waking up feeling not too bad.  However the weeks leading up to this "crash" I would wake up with mild zaps again for about 2 minutes, and occasionally some anxiety.

Now almost every day I wake up in the middle of the night, unable to fall back asleep.  The transition from dreaming to waking is so jarring.  In my dreams I tend to feel mostly normal, then as I wake I can feel my thoughts start to glitch and freeze up again, and within seconds I'm overwhelmed with intense feelings of dread and anxiety that then last throughout the day.

 

[Altostrata]

Hello, @panic27, how are you doing?