☼ Mattinsmom: update

[mattinsmom]

I have done 1 taper (50mg of Lamictal from 400-350) on October 10th. I understand that it has only been a month, tho it feels an eternity. I believe I am still having w/d. I feel like it is getting worse because of having trouble with my external world.

 

My father-in law died - I'm ok, dealing with it. We weren't close and I believe there's something good "out there".

 

My partner's tiny company was bought out by a huge (multi-billions $) company and we have no idea where things will end up. She's not losing her job (technically), just huge changes in everything.

 

My partner is having elective surgery next week so I'll be picking up tons of extra slack I'm not used to.

 

My best friend just started dating so she is in the initial "must be with him always" mode. She's working full-time, getting her doctorate, and now dating.  I should note that she lived here for 8+ years and bought her own condo only 3-yrs ago so my house is "home" too. Up until 6-weeks ago she was at my house 4-5-6 nights a week and most weekends. Now that has flipped and she's out 4-5 nights a week and most weekends. This is huge.

 

She was the one and only person who fully supported my decision to try weaning from psych drugs. She's been here for all of the drug starting/increases/changes. She's most prepared to help with the w/d. She's carried me thru the rough times and picked up the slack when I'm not able. She's my go-to. She was the person that was supposed to be here for the mood swings, the desperation, the suicidal thoughts, the overwhelming-ness of life in general.

 

She was the person who believed w/d is real and was going to help me remember to wait symptoms out. I'm having crying spells, angry outbursts, times of complete lethargy and my family is starting to lean towards seeing this as proof of disease .My friend was supposed to be the person to run interference when my family and doctors couldn't see the w/d . She promised that "WE" would do this together and now she's not here. I feel completely lost. I've tried to talk w/ her about it and she says I can always call for help if I really need it. I am not about to call during her dates because I'm crying and don't know why and I'm not good at regulating my breakdowns to Monday nights and some Saturdays.

 

I have no intention of tapering anything at the moment. And, I feel like I can't even consider tapering anything ever because the "real world" won't slow down enough for me to catch my breath.  

 

Oh, and I just caught my 16yo smoking pot. He has no intention of stopping. Just shoot me now. 

 

There has to be someone else who has felt alone, abandoned, and incapable of getting thru life. I am SO not ok and starting to think that the alternate to limping thru this life is to stop it. Just a thought, no plan for action, but I don't want to think this at all. 

[mammaP]

Hi Mattinsmum.  There are a lot of changes going on for you right now and it jumps out at me that you are

grieving for your friend who is caught up with her own life now. Grief is very real,

and it doesn't have to be a death that causes it!  The withdrawal will settle down, maybe 

the next drop would be better a bit less if possible. It could be that the drop was a little too much at once,

we recommend no more than 10% reduction of the current dose. Your drop was 12.5% which isn't much

more but you might do better with even smaller than 10% , The aim is to be as symptom free as possible .

I usually wait until the symptoms have subsided for a few weeks  before considering my next drop, letting 

my CNS settle down before disturbing it again. 

 

Stress can worsen withdrawal symptoms too so it's not surprising you are feeling rotten right now. 

The feeling that ending your life is also quite common in withdrawal, I know that personally there have

been days when that thought has been overwhelming! It isn't you, it's the withdrawal and will settle down again. 

I hope you feel better very soon, this wave will pass. 

[dunerbug]

I'm sorry. I can understand about your best friend. 

 

Sounds like a lot of change. 

[mattinsmom]

Hi Mattinsmum.  There are a lot of changes going on for you right now and it jumps out at me that you are

grieving for your friend who is caught up with her own life now. Grief is very real,

and it doesn't have to be a death that causes it!  The withdrawal will settle down, maybe 

the next drop would be better a bit less if possible. It could be that the drop was a little too much at once,

we recommend no more than 10% reduction of the current dose. Your drop was 12.5% which isn't much

more but you might do better with even smaller than 10% , The aim is to be as symptom free as possible .

I usually wait until the symptoms have subsided for a few weeks  before considering my next drop, letting 

my CNS settle down before disturbing it again. 

 

Stress can worsen withdrawal symptoms too so it's not surprising you are feeling rotten right now. 

The feeling that ending your life is also quite common in withdrawal, I know that personally there have

been days when that thought has been overwhelming! It isn't you, it's the withdrawal and will settle down again. 

I hope you feel better very soon, this wave will pass. 

 

 

I'm sorry. I can understand about your best friend. 

 

Sounds like a lot of change. 

Thanks mommaP, I hadn't considered grief. I think your insight is spot on. Part of my MA included studies on grief processes; one would think that I would have caught that one. Guess I was too close to see it. Grief sucks 

 

I'm not going to be dropping Lamictal again until I've w/d from the Wellbutrin SR. I realized after the first Lamictal taper that the antidepressant should probably go first. I don't know that I'll be starting that too soon because things at home are still unsettled. My psychiatrist is only willing to do a big drop ( 300mg to 150x7-days then stop). I know that it is too fast and am trying to figure that one out. I need a much clearer plan before I'm willing to take a leap like that. If he continues to be difficult I will call my primary and see if she can order  the immediate release in lower doses. I've heard that it is possible, tho maybe not the best idea, to cut the SRs. I've poked on the Wellbutrin link here and will do much more thorough looking when the time comes. 

 

dunerbug, thank you for your acknowledgement and your support. I find it helpful just knowing I've been heard.  

[mattinsmom]

Vent coming:

 

Pissed at the world today. The real emotion is fear but pissed is more comfortable. I saw something on facebook  called "hangry", when someone is so hungry they get angry. I think I'm there. 

 

I spent last weekend in Florida at my father-in-laws funeral. It was all ok, triggering, but ok. Then  when driving home Monday the closer I got to home the panic attacks start. What the hell? I'm sure that therapy will help with that one but I took .5mg Lorazapam extra that day, and then again on Tues, and Wed and Thursday before my oldest son's choral performance. That is when I realized what I was doing and that I'd been taking 2.5mg daily instead of 2.  The Thursday pre-performance pill had crumbled when I snapped it so when bedtime came I took my whole 1mg pill and a piece of the snapped half that hadn't turned to dust.  I probably ended up taking 1.25mg meaning I went from 4-days of 2.5mg of Lorazapam to 1.75mg. I feel so stupid. Needless to say, yesterday sucked. I took my 2mg at bedtime and things improved. That sucked more. For me it just proved that I needed it.

 

If just that little mess-up can cause the w/d symptoms I had yesterday how the hell am I going to make it thru tapering and w/d of the rest of my meds!!!! I know, breathe and it will work out but still. I "knew" I was addicted to the meds but I don't think I fully understood just how seriously addicted. I used alcohol/drugs during my teens so I understand addiction but somehow I had this in a separate category. I was so busy looking at the facts about my brain needing to adjust, by body/cns needing to re-learn life that I didn't put 2=2 together. The changes in my being resulting from psych meds aren't nasty side effects, they are addiction. 

 

I just went from seeing myself as a person tapering off psych meds to an addict withdrawing from drugs. Funny how easy it is to fall into the trap of thinking that just because a pill (etc) is prescribed and legal it is medicinal and somehow not the same as or bad as  "drugs". It wasn't really new information, just an Ah ha. I've joked that the only difference between my psychiatrist and a drug dealer is that one has been randomly determined to be legal. But I didn't really get it. Yesterday I finally "got it". It isn't a joke and I'm pissed. The drugs were never going to make me better, just dependent. 

 

ok. totally extreme black or white rant. I know that medications can be useful, life-saving, and necessary but I want to be mad at someone right now and I'm putting it all on my "ist". That bottom-feeder did not follow the 1st-rule of medicine. He did harm. 

 

Humph!

Thanks for letting me dump that.

[mattinsmom]

Withdrawal symptoms update from this weeks  Lorazapam debacle

11/10/13 -  2mg. (normal dose)

11/11/13 - extra .5mg for panic

11/12/13 - extra .5mg for panic

11/13/13 - extra .5mg for panic

11/14/13 - realized I was creating a problem. Chose to return to original dose but one pill had crumbled. Took about 1.75 mg 

11/15/13 - severe headache that worsened thru the day, severely nauseated, blurred vision.Took 2mg dose 9pm (w/advil) and symptoms dull enough for me to

                 sleep by 11:30

11/16/13 - mild hint of headache and nausea. Angry/moody. Will take/remain at 2mg.  

[Rhiannon]

 

 

There has to be someone else who has felt alone, abandoned, and incapable of getting thru life. I am SO not ok and starting to think that the alternate to limping thru this life is to stop it. Just a thought, no plan for action, but I don't want to think this at all. 

 

Well, I don't know if it helps, but I can relate to every word. I have definitely been there and I still drop by for visits from time to time.

 

Having a rough day today, feeling lonely and hopeless about ever having someone to share my life with or any kind of family again. I mean, I have grown daughters, and they love me, but I live alone and I think I will probably be stuck as a single in a world full of happy couples for the rest of my g***dm life. Lonely and sick of it.

[mattinsmom]

 

 

 

There has to be someone else who has felt alone, abandoned, and incapable of getting thru life. I am SO not ok and starting to think that the alternate to limping thru this life is to stop it. Just a thought, no plan for action, but I don't want to think this at all. 

 

Well, I don't know if it helps, but I can relate to every word. I have definitely been there and I still drop by for visits from time to time.

 

Having a rough day today, feeling lonely and hopeless about ever having someone to share my life with or any kind of family again. I mean, I have grown daughters, and they love me, but I live alone and I think I will probably be stuck as a single in a world full of happy couples for the rest of my g***dm life. Lonely and sick of it.

 

It does help to know that I am not alone and that my experiences aren't so far out of the realm of possibility. I appreciate your humor re dropping in for visits from time to time. I'm pretty sure I'll have that visitor experience as well.

 

I'm sorry you are having a rough day. I'm a tad pissy myself. One note tho - not all couples are happy despite how they may look on the outside. Feeling lonely when you're not alone is really painful. 

 

And, I am sorry that it sucks to be you today. I hate that feeling. 

[Rhiannon]

Thanks for getting it Amy. It does help.

[Barbarannamated]

"Feeling lonely when you're not alone is really painful.". Oh, yes.

 

I relate to what you've both expressed.

[Jemima]

 

 

 

There has to be someone else who has felt alone, abandoned, and incapable of getting thru life. I am SO not ok and starting to think that the alternate to limping thru this life is to stop it. Just a thought, no plan for action, but I don't want to think this at all. 

 

Well, I don't know if it helps, but I can relate to every word. I have definitely been there and I still drop by for visits from time to time.

 

Having a rough day today, feeling lonely and hopeless about ever having someone to share my life with or any kind of family again. I mean, I have grown daughters, and they love me, but I live alone and I think I will probably be stuck as a single in a world full of happy couples for the rest of my g***dm life. Lonely and sick of it.

 

 

Rhi and Mattinsmom,

 

As a former psychotherapist and twice-married woman, I can tell you that there is not a "world full of happy couples" out there.  There is a world full of miserable married people, couples in which one or both are chronic alcoholics or drug addicts, spouse and child beaters, and a whole host of other relationship horrors along with a FEW people who are happily married some of the time.  Those few couples who have stayed in their marriages long term will tell you that they've been through very rough times and have had to work hard at staying together.

 

I hope I've blown that fantasy away.  I'm quite familiar with it myself, in case you were wondering.

 

It's one of the pillars of Buddhism that life is hard. That's been a really difficult thing for me to incorporate in my life view, but I think it's important to keep that in mind and also to keep in mind that it's true for everyone.

[mattinsmom]

" FEW people who are happily married some of the time."  Jemima - too damn funny! Spot on too. 

 

 

I've been married for almost 25-years. Some of the time we are happy, some of the time I'm surprised we can even be in the same room. Most of the time I think we are both more than a little lonely yet comforted by knowing that the other one is still going to be there when the world is too big. The dynamics that come along with having children had a huge impact on our relationship. We started as the two of us, added a preemie, became tag team parents, then added a seriously ill preemie (both boys are 6' and healthy as can be), became exhausted tag-team parents, jobs changed, we moved, boys grew, and now we are slowly becoming empty-nesters. My guys are 16 and 20 - both living at home - but needing less and less of us every day. With every change came good and not so good. Now we are starting to realize that, in a strange way, maybe we don't know each other very well at all. Time to take a shot at navigating the next phase I guess. 

 

So yes, happily married some of the time.

 

Rhi, I hope that you are feeling better today.

 

   

[Rhiannon]

 

 

 

 

There has to be someone else who has felt alone, abandoned, and incapable of getting thru life. I am SO not ok and starting to think that the alternate to limping thru this life is to stop it. Just a thought, no plan for action, but I don't want to think this at all. 

 

Well, I don't know if it helps, but I can relate to every word. I have definitely been there and I still drop by for visits from time to time.

 

Having a rough day today, feeling lonely and hopeless about ever having someone to share my life with or any kind of family again. I mean, I have grown daughters, and they love me, but I live alone and I think I will probably be stuck as a single in a world full of happy couples for the rest of my g***dm life. Lonely and sick of it.

 

 

Rhi and Mattinsmom,

 

As a former psychotherapist and twice-married woman, I can tell you that there is not a "world full of happy couples" out there.  There is a world full of miserable married people, couples in which one or both are chronic alcoholics or drug addicts, spouse and child beaters, and a whole host of other relationship horrors along with a FEW people who are happily married some of the time.  Those few couples who have stayed in their marriages long term will tell you that they've been through very rough times and have had to work hard at staying together.

 

I hope I've blown that fantasy away.  I'm quite familiar with it myself, in case you were wondering.

 

It's one of the pillars of Buddhism that life is hard. That's been a really difficult thing for me to incorporate in my life view, but I think it's important to keep that in mind and also to keep in mind that it's true for everyone.

 

 

I know well what it's like to be in a bad marriage. And I have to say that being alone is better than being abused. And I don't think I have the fantasy that all couples are happy, I've been around the block a while and I've known lots of couples, and been part of a couple myself a few times.

 

But I don't think people who are in relationships realize how alone people who are single are, and how hard that is. We are social animals. Loneliness is very stressful and painful. Just having another person around, in the room, in the house, in your life; just facing life with someone whose interests are at least somewhat aligned with yours, rather than having to do it all alone--that's a real thing.  And right now I'm sad about the prospect of spending the rest of my life like this, and I don't think that's illusory.  (Although it might be a bit pessimistic. Still, at my age, statistically, women who are single often do stay that way.)

[mattinsmom]

Just journaling to keep track of thoughts and experiences.

 

Weekends are notoriously difficult for me, particularly Sundays. Yesterday was no different. Of course it was grey, misty/raining, cold. From my window I looked past the old crooked fence and saw the 1/2-dead tree, limbs sticking out in odd angles as if broken bones. An Edgar Allen Poe kind of day and I felt it. Knowing that the next several days are going to be difficult for me, a lot will be on my shoulders (temporary) weighed heavily. And during this I am truly grieving the changes in my relationship with my best friend. I am trying not to judge it as good or bad, but it is difficult. I was tired and feeling somewhat defeated. I went to bed early and slept (- a few interruptions) for close to 12-hours. I hadn't been sleeping well so this made some sense. Yesterday was hard.Sleep was a healing reprieve. 

 

Today was different. The sun was out - huge help! My morning was still rather slow and I was unmotivated but I did get some things done. As the day progressed I began to perk up. I got out in the sunshine for a little bit, did some cleaning around the house, felt a bit energetic. The energy continued to uncomfortably gain during the day. This has happened a couple of times in the past 7-10 days. This afternoon I noticed tinnitus, then some heart palpitations and feeling inner vibrations while being exhausted. It was as if I was having a panic attack without the panic. And then there is the headache. Its not bad but it is in the exact same spot every time. It has been there, off and on, since doctors started changing my meds over the summer. I've done a little research and it is in my limbic system (Cingulate Gyrus) and it completely makes sense. 

 

When I made my 1st drop of Lamictal I felt really good, really fast. It was probably too fast. The suggestion that maybe the Lamictal was holding the Wellbutrin agitation at bay was so logical. Over the past month since then my mood has continued to swing to extremes. I have also spent more time feeling good (word choice?) than I have in years! I had planned on taking my first taper of Wellbutrin a couple weeks ago but circumstances pointed to waiting longer. I am starting to wonder if more and more of the molecular structures from the Lamictal decrease have continued to leave my body, allowing the Wellbutrin to pack a harder punch. Again, circumstance suggests waiting is in my best interest for just a little longer so that punch will continue to have free reign so-to-speak. I would like to start a Wellbutrin taper this weekend but might opt for later in the week. Until then I am left with the excited/irritated feelings in my body and some pretty steadily amping up/mood changes. 

 

I've considered slightly increasing my Lamictal tho it would be difficult for me to get small doses. I can cut multiple times but not consistently even. This isn't necessarily a problem. That said, I would only need it short-term and it seems like a poor decision since Lamictal takes time to stabilize in the blood stream.  My other option is to ever so slightly, and only prn, increase my Lorazapam. By lightly I mean almost a lick, no more than .25mg per day, and not necessarily every day. I fully understand that I am going to be adding something to my body that will quickly increase my tolerance and will cause a longer w/d. I am remembering that I just did something like this a week ago and felt pretty crappy when I lowered the dose back down.  But it is a short-acting medication for a short-term situation. I've decided on that route. However, not that route alone. I will see my chiropractor in a couple of days and I had NF planned 

 

Today I revved up steadily and held off on the extra lorazapam. I did some breathing, did some reading, paced a little. and waited because I knew that I was going to receive a neurofeedback session tonight. I wanted to see how that would impact things. I think the session went well? They are odd experiences to try to judge. My head hurt in my "spot" when it started, my head hurt when it finished. My head hurt for about 20-minutes after and then it traveled and within another 5-minutes it was gone.

 

A little later there was a small spider (but spider nonetheless) on my friend's bag. I grabbed it and tossed it to the side. I'm not comfortable with spiders and touching them, ugh, just writing about it gives me shivers. But I did touch it and as soon as I did that I had a sharp pain in my headache "spot". After a minute or so it went away. I find that very interesting and I can pick at the meaning/mechanisms that might have been at work for hours. The area of my brain that has been so festive is an area that is heavily involved in emotion regulation and fight/flight/freeze. Bottom line tho - I got to have an interesting peek into the functioning of my brain and I never needed to take any extra medication. 

 

Tonight I felt a little better than ok. Tonight I felt good. I watched a movie (Beetlejuice, such a bad movie its good). I made popcorn. I had a little cake and milk. It was nice. I remembered that I used to do things like that many years ago. Those things faded over time and tonight I wanted to do something and I did. Of course there is a voice in my head saying Wellbutrin and another saying manic. But way in the back I can hear a little voice saying maybe it is just healing. Maybe I am returning to me. I do have to weigh in that clearly I am awake and it is 1:30am, not ideal, but I did sleep almost 12 hours yesterday and I am beginning to tucker out.

 

So this is simply a journal observation for me to look back on as needed. Sunshine + neurofeedback = good. For today anyway. As for the rest of the week, well, we will see.

 

I am more than open to feedback, ideas that anyone might want to send my way.

[Meimeiquest]

Flying by....another way to look at the mood changes is as a gift. They're just from med changes, they can be fixed. Relax into them...how do they start, how do they feel, what helps you be grounded...sort of explore them. Instead of being terrified and ashamed. That's the place I finally got to.

[mattinsmom]

I believe that this is meds. I believe that my body is not tolerating the Wellbutrin and I can't do anything about it right now except ride it out. I suppose that is a good thing because it is forcing me to pay attention. Lesson today was on eating.  I've always known that what I eat has a huge impact on my moods (and that my habits are severely lacking) but I hadn't realized how often I don't eat. I've paid so much attention to the what of eating that I forgot to look at the when, It was pretty obvious today. I woke up jittery, ate, and things slowed a bit. Over the day I wound right back up. I was trying to figure out why and then I realized I was starving. I had started my day with a granola bar and good intentions.......and then I wondered why, at 4:30, I was edgy. Grrr. I know better! 

 

Time to take a step back and look at whats going on instead of just running through actions and reactions. 

[Altostrata]

When do you take Wellbutrin? Is the activation a daily pattern?

[mattinsmom]

I take Wellbutrin in the morning. Its 300mgSR. I usually take it somewhere around 10am but this morning I took it at 6. The extra energy was not as noticeable today. I'm surprised that its not. I only slept 3 hours last night, took my meds very early today, and haven't eaten well. My partner had surgery today and there was a little bump in the road along the way. Everything is fine, we're home now, but I've been very focused on that. I think I'm simply too tired to be anxious. Tense day, lots of cortisol I'm guessing. I also know that one more day of "too tired" will have me acting like a 2-year-old who has missed a nap. I'm making something easy for dinner and hoping for an early bedtime.  

 

The activation pattern is fairly new and increasing in frequency and severity with time. I am hoping/planning on starting to taper this weekend if all is well here. My pdoc has me on two 150mgSR tabs and won't call in anything else. He says stop 1 pill, wait 7 days, stop the other.  He also said a slower decrease is not necessary and I shouldn't have any w/d. He did say that "if" I am feeling "discomfort" I can wait longer than a week before I stop taking the final pill.  I disagree with his opinions (yes I need a new pdoc, I'm working on it). I expect it to be "uncomfortable". In fact, I'm pretty sure its going to suck. I am going to cut my pills so that I'm only going down by 75mg and I bet I'll hold much longer than a week. I expect I'm going to get a quick activation hit when I take the 1/2 pill but that it will even out. I might try to 1/4 the pills but I don't know if that will work or if I'll end up with too much irregularity/crumbs. 

 

I picked this weekend because I have people home until the Monday after Thanksgiving. My youngest (16) only has 2-days of school next week and can always find a ride to/from if I can't drive him. I have therapy, chiropractics, and neurofeedback scheduled during next week to help too. And, I have my therapist's cell number if needed. I didn't expect it to be hard to schedule my tapers around other peoples schedules. I know I'll be ok, I always am. Tell you what tho, cold turkey is looking more and more attractive by the day. (I won't)

 

I just noticed that I'm bouncing my legs and feeling fidgetty. Hmmm?  

[Meimeiquest]

I'm sorry 8 wasn't clear...I meant using mood changes from the meds as an avenue to exploring those sensations without fear because they aren't real. I'm pretty sure I split the 150mg SR into quarters with success, if you want to make smaller adjustments. Sorry it's all so hard!

[mattinsmom]

I'm sorry 8 wasn't clear...I meant using mood changes from the meds as an avenue to exploring those sensations without fear because they aren't real. I'm pretty sure I split the 150mg SR into quarters with success, if you want to make smaller adjustments. Sorry it's all so hard!

No need for sorry. 

I like the idea of exploring emotions knowing they aren't real. I think I can use that idea as a way to remind myself to relax when I'm in the heat of an emotion. 

[mattinsmom]

When I first titled this I didn't realize that this was going to be my (journal) page. Is there a way to change the title and take away the "sad realizations" part? My realizations aren't all sad.

[mammaP]

I've edited the title for you Amy and removed the sad realisations 

[mattinsmom]

Thank you 

[mattinsmom]

 

I'm sorry 8 wasn't clear...I meant using mood changes from the meds as an avenue to exploring those sensations without fear because they aren't real. I'm pretty sure I split the 150mg SR into quarters with success, if you want to make smaller adjustments. Sorry it's all so hard!

No need for sorry. 

I like the idea of exploring emotions knowing they aren't real. I think I can use that idea as a way to remind myself to relax when I'm in the heat of an emotion. 

 

I had some emotional hits today. Its me trying to get used to some changes. It was so helpful to step back and allow that the emotions/intensity were not pure, truth. I could tell myself they were compounded by med changes. Every time I remembered that, the emotions settled into a much more manageable and realistic level. The grief and changes with my best friend are what they are.  I have not needed to take any extra Lorazapam for anxiety which I had completely expected. Some things take work and time. They don't make a medication that will keep change from happening. I'm learning to stand on my own. Maybe this is a blessing for both of us. I still have every intention of stomping and throwing tantrums but I'll be ok. Maybe I'll even be better. But, being able to put that little thought of med influence on emotions really helped today. Thank you. 

[mattinsmom]

Tomorrow I am beginning my Wellbutrin SR taper. I currently take 300mg 1x daily in am.My plan is to cut a 150tab in 1/2. If it turns out to be too big a jump I will updose 1/4 dose. Couple of questions...

 

I've learned to expect an initial rush from the cut. What might that look/feel like?

How long (guesstimates) might that rush last before things settle back in to the slower release?

Should I be considering taking Wellbutrin 2x daily since cutting? I'm thinking not. I was put on am only because it was so activating and I have had sleep issues way before Wellbutrin.

Has anyone headed into manic from decreasing Wellbutrin?

 

I will keep posting. Not wanting to do this alone and hoping that whatever I learn may be of use to someone else. I know that what I have found here has been so incredible.

[Petunia]

Tomorrow I am beginning my Wellbutrin SR taper. I currently take 300mg 1x daily in am.My plan is to cut a 150tab in 1/2. If it turns out to be too big a jump I will updose 1/4 dose.

 

 

Hi Amy, I'm not understanding, what are you dropping to?

[Altostrata]

A 50% reduction in dosage makes me nervous. Please consider trying two 150mg tablets in the morning, substituting for the 300mg SR tablet, then a reduction of 1/4 of one of the 150mg tablets (37.5mg), bringing your dosage down to 262.50mg.

 

See how you do with that before planning your next decrease.

[mattinsmom]

I do take two- 150mg tabs in am. I didn't even know they made anything higher so I didn't drop by half. I dropped 75mg (25%) and I'm at 225mg. I know that is still high but its the best I have with my pdoc refusing refills. Right now big emotions are the uncomfortable symptom happening. My best friend (complicated) and I are having major problems so emotions are running high already. There isn't a pill in the world that would make this situation better or easier. We've been here before and I would still feel as hurt and angry even if I hadn't decreased meds. The difference is that I'm a little more willing to verbally let it rip and I kinda want it to sting. That isn't like me. I'm managing to vent in other directions.

 

I have found that I get a little rush of energy/agitation that feels like I drank a cup of coffee. It has been happening every 2-4 hours from when I take meds in am until about 9pm, (about 10-12hrs)  They get further apart, less severe, and stop faster as the day goes on.  It lasts for maybe 30 minutes on the far end and 10 on the short.  I want to (fight is not the right word) confront my friend when I'm feeling that so I write instead. I keep reminding myself that the med decrease might be adding some umph to the whole thing. Its only day two since the decrease so I am watching carefully. I will consider 1/4ing the pills if needed. I should have neurofeedback tomorrow, I see my chiropractor on Monday, and have therapy on Wednesday. I think I'm going to be ok. 

 

I won't do another drop until I'm confident everything has settled med-wise. 10-days would be the soonest and I am willing to hold for longer. I've got 52 pills to work with. 

[Rhiannon]

With that big of a drop please plan to hold for at least three to four weeks even if you feel like the worst has passed. It usually hasn't, and it's no fun to find that out later. Symptoms of withdrawal unfold and fade and are replaced by new ones over time.

 

I highly recommend both going back up a bit in dose to where you've made something closer to a 10% cut, and waiting at least four weeks before cutting again, and during that time keeping a journal of how you're feeling daily, ranking your symptoms on a numerical scale (like 1 to 5 or something). That way you can learn and observe your own body's patterns of withdrawal and recovery and see how it plays out and unfolds for you. Then you will be more informed when you make your next cut. I recommend doing the same thing with the second cut--make it conservative and wait a long time and keep a journal.

 

Most people don't want to do this. Most people think something like "oh it won't be that bad for ME" and "I can tough it out" and "I'm stronger than this drug." And some of them are right. But the ones who are wrong get into such suffering, such big trouble, and they set themselves back so far--you don't want to know what that's like, and I know you've suffered plenty already.

 

Better to take it slow at the start and not crash and burn. Learn how your body is going to respond to cuts NOW (because with psych meds that changes every time we quit one). Then once you know what your pattern is going to be, you can speed up safely, to tolerance.

 

Good luck. Please think about what I've said. I'm pretty sure we could get a chorus of many voices urging you, based on sad experience, to do so.

[mattinsmom]

With that big of a drop please plan to hold for at least three to four weeks even if you feel like the worst has passed. It usually hasn't, and it's no fun to find that out later. Symptoms of withdrawal unfold and fade and are replaced by new ones over time.

 

I highly recommend both going back up a bit in dose to where you've made something closer to a 10% cut, and waiting at least four weeks before cutting again, and during that time keeping a journal of how you're feeling daily, ranking your symptoms on a numerical scale (like 1 to 5 or something). That way you can learn and observe your own body's patterns of withdrawal and recovery and see how it plays out and unfolds for you. Then you will be more informed when you make your next cut. I recommend doing the same thing with the second cut--make it conservative and wait a long time and keep a journal.

 

Most people don't want to do this. Most people think something like "oh it won't be that bad for ME" and "I can tough it out" and "I'm stronger than this drug." And some of them are right. But the ones who are wrong get into such suffering, such big trouble, and they set themselves back so far--you don't want to know what that's like, and I know you've suffered plenty already.

 

Better to take it slow at the start and not crash and burn. Learn how your body is going to respond to cuts NOW (because with psych meds that changes every time we quit one). Then once you know what your pattern is going to be, you can speed up safely, to tolerance.

 

Good luck. Please think about what I've said. I'm pretty sure we could get a chorus of many voices urging you, based on sad experience, to do so.

I do hear your suggestions. Waiting a month to taper is fine. I can do that. I have to count pills to see how long I can hold out taper before i run out. I certainly do not think this will be easy, I think it will be tough and painful. I have noticed with previous drops that I had no understanding of and followed the pdoc orders were awful, horrible, painful for about 2-weeks and then my body adjusted over the next 2. I have a ridiculously adjustable body. And, I don't want to make this any worse than it need be.

 

I'm a little worried about staying on the higher dose. I'm seriously losing weight (unintentional). I eat as much as I can but it just keeps dropping. I hit 101.8 this morning. I'm 5'3". It is not an ok weight. When I graze and eat 4x a day of high calorie/high fat foods.I might put on two lbs. and then it stops. Let me miss a snack and I drop a pound. When I exercise (even the tiniest amount) I drop another. I know I don't eat enough but I eat when I realize I'm hungry and stop when the too full feeling kicks in. I always have extra protein. I can really trace the Wellbutrin with the loss. It happened when I was starting it too. I think I want to try this drop until Monday afternoon. I will have had neurofeedback (tomorrow) and chiropractics (monday). My chiro is working specifically on my cnf flow. He's detoxed other people so he is well informed and competent.

 

I'm post nightly Lorazapam and very long-winded. Sorry. I think maybe I should grab a bowl of cereal and donnetts and then head to bed.

 

Thank you for your support and suggestions. They have not fallen on deaf ears.  

[mattinsmom]

November 26 update

 

What a flippin' ride this has been. Weekend from hell! and yet...

 

I did do, and am holding, the 25%.. But I have found a pattern I can work with. Exactly 4 hours after I take the Wellbutrin I burst into tears. It is a waterworks show like none I've ever seen before. If I'm feeling particular abandoned there will even be some hyperventilating and maybe some flapping.  I should get an award. I am trying (learning) to process a huge change in a relationship. HUGE CHANGE. That seems to be the trigger for when my emotions reach max but that is understandable. I've been near this place w/ this relationship before and my emotions powerful and high, I just quickly stuffed them before.  It feels so good to cry tho sob might be more fitting at times. My kids think its just w/d and that is all they need to know. 

 

I have shut down so many emotions for so much of my life. There is probably 40-years worth of junk that has been in there festering. I know that the emotions I am feeling and releasing are at times consuming. I'm calling it initiation by fire. While I completely believe the Wellbutrin drop fuels the fire, big stuff needs to come out and it needs to hit me hard enough that I take notice. Minimizing and ignoring emotions are way too easy for me to do. Its automatic at this point and I have to deliberately focus on the pain/discomfort, to sit with it, experience it, and hopefully learn/come thru it. Whether med induced or med encouraged this needed to happen and it hurts so bad and feels so good. Weight after weight is being lifted off of my shoulders. With every heartbreak I am experiencing that it hurts, bad, and then it starts to be ok. Even at its worst it has taken pauses and I am still ok. For once in my life I am looking at something I don't want to see, feeling things I don't want to feel, and finding my way through. When I feel good I say that. When I'm in the middle of an emotional swing I say the world is ending. 

 

The confusion, rage, and ruminating thoughts are mostly the med drop. I get lost in my head and spin in circles. Eventually I end up where I was headed but a few people have caught the brunt of my outbursts. I have figured out that I need to write, wait a day, and then decide how I feel about it, and maybe wait another day before expressing it. Due to outside circumstances I haven't seen my therapist in almost 3-weeks. I see her tomorrow. That will be a blessing. She is so often my rock and she knows the relationship back story. I think I will find myself more grounded after our appointment. And, once she is fully up to speed I will feel more comfortable reaching out (texting her) when it gets rough. She has nicknamed me Chicken Little  

 

I might be bullsh***ing myself into thinking that this is ok, even good for me. I don't know, but it feels right. In my gut I feel I am doing the right thing. I also know, in my gut, that I need to wait awhile for the next cut. I think that the w/d from my previous Lamictal cut was brought back into play and I didn't really expect that to play out the way it did. 

 

Right now, I'm ok. No pain, clear head, a little anxiety but I know that in the next 15 minutes I'll be having a conversation about the relationship. 

[mattinsmom]

I've had a headache for 3-days. Its not a "normal" headache and I was relieved to find a thread on headaches. It looks like a lot of people have experienced the same type of headache sensations that I am experiencing. That is a relief but sad that people are hurting.

 

I've had trouble with my pill cutter and the Wellbutrin this weekend. Tomorrow I will buy a new cutter. I think that my dose has been sketchy the last few days because I'm not getting a clean cut. I was away for the weekend, in the middle nowhere, and my cut yesterday was really sloppy. I didn't have extra med on me (poor planning) so I guessed and put pieces together to make what looked to be about 1/2 a tab. This morning I was up with cramping, diarrhea, nausea, and feeling like I was going to pass out. I don't remember the last time I laid on a bathroom floor! My entire body hurts. I feel like my insides are jumbles/broken and my skin is just holding it all in.    

 

I've been out of sorts which isn't helping any. Hard to know how much is grief and how much is med. I'm allowing it to run its course regardless of what I call it. Tomorrow will be better. If nothing else I'll have a more accurate Wellbutrin dose.  

[mammaP]

Hi Amy, I'm sorry you are hurting so badly. A break up is painful anytime but while in withdrawal 

it is horrendous. I had a traumatic family break up and thought I would never get over it. I felt I

had lost everyone I loved and it was the most hurt I have ever been in my whole life. Looking back

I can see that neuro emotions came into play with withdrawal and amplified everything x 100! 

Time is a great healer, even if it doesn't feel like it now, things will get better. Get through each day,

1 at a time and one of those days you will feel better, I promise. 

[mattinsmom]

Thanks mommaP

I "know" I will be alright. I'm a survivor, as I think everyone here is - in more ways than medication.  

[mattinsmom]

I will head over to the wellbutrin taper forum again but looking for quick advice anyone might have.

 

My p.doc sucks. I'm running out of Wellbutrin. I'm cutting 150mg tabs in 1/2 but cannot get a clean cut and really can't be throwing away broken/crumbled pieces. I am heading to my primary care to ask for her to step in and take over.

 

I currently take 1-150mg tab(sr) and 1/2 of another together in am. Taking the sr twice daily caused major sleep probs in beginning thus once a day dosing.

 

Does it make any sense to ask for the 75mg instant release and go to multiple doses?

 

 

[mammaP]

I would think that if the slow release affected your sleep then it might not be a

good idea as you would have to take several doses a day to keep the levels stable,

but it's possible you could make the regular into a liquid that would be easier to measure.

 

These are just my thoughts, Maybe one of the others will know more. It is the sleep part

that makes me think it might not be suitable, sleep is important and if I were managing

to sleep I wouldn't want to risk disrupting it!

 

 

Alto might think differently, she will be along shortly. I hope you are feeling ok Amy, as well

as you can be in the circumstances. xx