Arshness: Wellbutrin Taper and a dilemma

[Rhiannon]

Especially don't take Xanax if what you want is something to sedate you. It will work for about two weeks and then it will start to cause you to have more anxiety whenever the dose wears off. It's one of the least sedating benzos. I don't think it's a helpful approach. I'm already concerned that if you're intermittently taking klonopin, it may be making your problems worse. Benzos do that. We adapt to them so quickly that they quickly lose their therapeutic effect and then all we're doing is taking them to prevent withdrawal symptoms.  And the withdrawal symptoms are usually worse than the original anxiety.

[Arshness]

I am not intermittently taking klonopins. It's been well over a month since I took any. The Xanax were prescribed to me on an "as needed" emergency basis. I would never start taking a benzo regularly again...But like said, I don't want to. I haven't even gotten the prescription. I just wish there was something to comfort me when I'm really bad off. :c 

[mattinsmom]

Hey

You still around? Are you ok? 

[Arshness]

Yeah I'm still here. Things got a bit better for a while. I was doing fine on the 75mg morning and 75- 1/8 tablet in the evening. Then I tried to drop another 1/8th off the evening dose and hit rebound anxiety bad. The last few days have been hell as such. Dealing with it for now and hoping since I went back to the last good dose to hold a few more weeks it will settle down

 

 

Thank you for checking on me. Will update more as the week progresses.

[Arshness]

Update... 

Okay so it's been a few months since I posted last. I tried to really keep my head away from the thoughts of anxiety and worry for a while and it really helped. That also meant staying away from forums where I was seeking answers. 

Short update: I'm doing much better. It's been hard some times. I've been in the ER a few times thinking I was dying, but everything is benign. 
I am currently taking 75mg Wellbutrin/day, ferrous sulfate for my anemia and my normal allergy meds. That's about it. 

I have two pills I take for emergency anxiety nights: Hydroxyzine (Attarax) 50mg for when it's just a bit more than I can bear and Ativan 1mg for when it's too bad to sleep. I do this because I have found my life is easiest if I keep a regular schedule and thus, nights when I have too much anxiety to sleep can really turn into a snowball of more and more nights of bad anxiety if I let my schedule get off. My schedule is 1am-9am. I flux a little. Sometimes I go to bed an hour early or late. But I try to get up at 9am regardless. Some mornings I've slept in to 10am but I'm doing really good now for several weeks on not getting off of it by much. I am determined to keep my schedule because when I take my meds every day at the same times and don't miss doses, I'm most sane. 

More update:
I have had an MRI. I don't have MS. I'm not sure if this is good news or bad news in a sense. When I thought it was MS, I at least knew what it was and how to deal with it. Now I'm back to no idea what's wrong with me and being sent to Neurology but they don't have an appointment until August. 
I am still having tons of muscle spasms and nerve twinges.
I am no longer having massive bleeding. I used the Nuva ring for about a month then had to stop due to anxiety that I'd develop blood clots and when I stopped using it, I miraculously also stopped bleeding and then never started again. So far about 5 months with no period so not sure if I'm just going to be super irregular now, or if I am entering early menopause very young. 
I have suspicious my thyroid may behind much of my unwellness. It has checked in abnormal and I go back soon for a second check to confirm it. 
I think it could be the cause of my bleeding issues as well as some of my other issues.

At this point, I fully feel the cause of my anxiety is 100% the Wellbutrin. Before that I had *worry*. Now I know the difference. 
I hate that I ever took this dreadful chemical. 

I want off it so bad but I can't just jump off it.

Right now, my big question is this:

I am currently taking 75mg/day (half pill in morning, half in evening). Before this, I was taking the same +1/8 of a pill extra in the morning. 
When I came off this dose, I was doing ok. It's been 2-3 weeks and I"m feeling more anxiety at night than normal. 
On the one hand I wonder if I should go back up because I"m getting some symptoms again. On the other hand it's been 2-3 weeks so I wonder if I should just tough it out and let things normalize.
Further complicating the matter: the 1/8th pill is really uncomfy to swallow as well as hard to cut evenly so I was eager to get off of a dose that involved those... 
I don't want to go back up to the previous dose because I don't want to mess with the tiny pill shards if I can avoid it, but at the same time... I just want to do what's best for me.
Any thoughts? 

 

[Altostrata]

When do you take the allergy meds, what time do you take them, and what are the drugs and dosages?

 

Check for interactions here http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html please copy the report of your findings in this topic.

[Arshness]

Alto, I take the allergy meds in the morning. The amounts were in my sig... 10mg Cetirizine daily. I know it's the same med as Attarax. We've talked about that before here. 
I don't think it has anything to do with why my anxiety returned because I didn't take anymore attarax for months, then only started taking it again when the anxiety bumped up again. So anxiety came before reintroducing attarax. I've been taking the Cetirizine the whole time and for years before that.

[Altostrata]

We haven't heard from you in 6 months -- lots could have changed.

 

Please look into drug interactions anyway.

[Arshness]

I did. None of the interactions are relative to anxiety. Mostly just "May increase drowsiness or dizzyness" etc. 
And I realize that, was just informing that the amount is still the same on that drug. I haven't changed it in years.

[Altostrata]

I am determined to keep my schedule because when I take my meds every day at the same times and don't miss doses, I'm most sane.

 

 

This is good news.

 

What is your symptom pattern relative to when you take your drugs?

[Arshness]

Well I'd been taking my drugs at 9am and 9pm every day without fail for a couple weeks and that's when I still noticed I was having symptoms late in the day. Which is to say, after my 9pm dose. I go to bed around 1am and get up at 9am.

[Altostrata]

Usually, adverse effects from Wellbutrin are sleeplessness, nervousness, anxiety, etc. Is it possible your evening dose is causing this?

 

If so, you may wish to reduce it and see if that helps.

[Meimeiquest]

When I was on two doses of Wellbutrin I think I took them 7 A and 2 P, maybe more like 4P on your schedule?

[Arshness]

Alto: I'm afraid of reducing it again because it hasn't been very long and I'm trying to taper it responsibly. 

Meimei: That's possibly a good idea. I can't wait til I can get off this med for good. 
It has made my life a living hell for the past year+.

[mammaP]

Sometimes it's can be beneficial to make an early cut if there are adverse effects from the drugs. 

A tiny cut can make a difference. Alto is very good at seeing when a cut can be the best thing.

[Altostrata]

meimei has a very good idea, to move your evening dose earlier in the day.

[Arshness]

I'll try moving my doses earlier in the day and see how it goes. If not that, I'll try to cut the evening dose again. I can't wait to be off this stuff. >_<

[Arshness]

Hi guys. 

Moving my dose earlier in the day helped with anxiety tho I still get it sometimes.

Now the issue is as I'm coming down off the Wellbutrin, I'm going back into depression. 
I don't know what to do. :c 
Being on the med makes me anxiety, but being off the med makes me depressed... 
How can I be whole or normal again?? ;_; I don't know what to do...

[bubble]

hello Arshness,

 

I'm sorry you're not feeling well.

 

Could you explain how this depression manifests? I've also noticed that when I say I feel depressed, it doesn't mean much. Breaking it down makes it more manageable.

 

Is it low energy,lack of motivation and interest to do things (anhedonia), fatigue, brain fog, negative thinking, feelins of doom, etc.? Then we can look into Symptoms and self-care to see what can help with each.

 

I feel like this from time to time and it's awful,that inability to do things and apathy about everything that normally makes me happy. But it comes and goes.

 

I don't know if there is a scientific explanation about this but anxiety and depression actually seem to be two sides of the same coin,one gives us a respite from the other in a CNS that has started malfunctioning.

 

Is there something in your life at the moment that you find difficult to deal with? I'm typing from my phone so can't see the speed of your tapering. Maybe that could be adjusted?

 

To some up, I'd describe depression in great detail to see what it consists of and then deal with each of these things. I would also monitor how severe the symptoms are and how stable:do they come and go, build up and then decrease or tend to stick...

 

Hope this helps a bit

 

bubble

[Arshness]

Thanks Bubble. I've been tapering very slowly, according to the guidelines on this site. 

The depression manifests as... lack of joy in things I normally take joy in. I can think of everything I normally enjoy and nothing sounds "fun" or even "Doable". Everything is ".. meh. I don't care." 
This is not absolute yet, but it's becoming stronger over time. I know this is how I felt when I was truly depressed, but then it was all the time and very severe. Right now it's moderate and rising, and its more that there are only very limited things taking my interest and most are VERY low energy. If I have to do much at all, my interest drops. So playing a video game alone is kinda okay, but playing with friends becomes more difficult because of the demand of continuing if I suddenly feel I don't want to anymore (rude to leave a game mid-match after all) or things like that. I can lay around and read, but I get sleepy eventually. Trying to complete a project is kinda hit or miss. I either get furiously involved and do it until it's done because I can't let go... or I just... can't get up the steam to get started no matter how much I want to. 

Even conversations are exhausting right now. I would normally have lots of fun talking through an idea, but in this state, I just want the conversation to be finished... 

Everything seems exhausting and everything seems... barely worth it if not just... not worth it. 
It's not "me". 
I hate this so much. 

Anxiety is bad, but at least I can still enjoy things when anxiety is mild. Depression at this stage becomes ... life destroying. But severe Anxiety does too, so taking the meds anon is not an option. :c

[bubble]

That's a very good description of what is very familiar to all of us here.

 

Have you browsed through the tread on the subject we have here?: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2873-anhedonia-apathy-demotivation/

 

After I have answered to you, I'm going to write to our other member here Newbeginning whose apathy, lack of interest and emotional and physical depletion is so severe that she has problems taking a bath and brushing. So this comes in various intensity as everything.And it reduces over time. Unfortunately, it reduces so slowly that you can't measure it from one day to the next. It's just that after a long time of suffering you notice one day it's no longer there and you feel like you've been born anew.  

 

I don't know of other way of managing it rather than accepting it as a tedious relative that you have to put up with out of courtesy and focusing on those moments when the fog gets thinner, however slightly. I gently push myself into doing things although I don't feel like doing them at all. I actually alternate: one day I please my body and should by not doing anything as they don't feel like doing anything but the next day I go and do something, and so on.

 

The other things you describe remind me of the picture of our CNS after tapering similar to that of a broken leg. We put our broken leg into a plaster cast, treat it extremely gently, spare it of all the activity and allow it plenty of time to heal. Even when the cast is removed, we are very mindful of it, still spare it a lot and very gradually activate it more and more until it slowly reaches the pre-injury level of functionality. Why would we treated our broken CNS any different? Engaging in a conversation might at this point be similar to playing football: although this activity would before bring us lots of fun, with a leg that's just gotten out of a cast, we would just want it to finish. Wouldn't a person with a broken leg also say:  Everything seems exhausting and everything seems... barely worth it if not just... not worth it. 

It's not "me". 
I hate this so much. 

 

I don't know if this makes any sense to you but thinking about my mental functioning that is malfunctioning at times in this way, helps me to survive it. Fortunately our CNS as well as our bones have a remarkable capacity to heal. You could check Sympotms and self-care section for ideas of what you could do to facilitate the process. Mostly it's time and patient acceptance and our mantra: it shall pass.

 

take care.

 

bubble

[mattinsmom]

Hi there

 

Wellbutrin sucks. I hear you, I know many doctors say that Wellbutrin is an easy drug to come off of and I call BS on that. I'm currently w/d from it as well. I have found that the depressions eases up after a couple of weeks. Are you experiencing any break in that yet? I have also found that I absolutely must get outside and sunshine as much as humanly possible. It makes such a huge, huge difference. Rainy days, for me, teeter on deadly.

 

I hope that your system settles into the new dose. Glad to see that you are still around and working it.  

[Arshness]

Hey mattinsmom I ended up going back up a step on my dose for one week then coming down again and so far I'm not getting the rebounds again yet. Here's hoping. 

I'm down to a half pill in the morning and half a pill at evening so hopefully I won't have to fight this battle for toooo much longer. There are only 4 more steps down per dose on mine... so I'm just trying to focus on that. I've come so far. I can do this. 

Fortunately, the anxiety has gotten milder and milder. It's been a while now since I had a serious panic attack. Now, the worse I get are very rarely the "I can't lay down and sleep right this moment" ones, but those are mostly calmed enough now that I can lay there and READ and trick myself into going to sleep. 

I am so very thankful for having found this forum and learned what I did or I have no idea what would have happened to me. 
I still notice I get too much nerve activity if I miss a dose tho, so I'm worried what will happen with my nerves when the Wellbutrin is gone. Will it still cause me to have too much nerve activity (is it because of a lack of Welbutrin?) Or will it stop (because it's caused by Wellbutrin rollercoaster)?

>_< I'm hoping it will all go away and leave me alone. These last two years have been hell enough on their own. I don't need more.

[Altostrata]

Fortunately, the anxiety has gotten milder and milder. It's been a while now since I had a serious panic attack.

 

 

Yep, that indicates your problem was iatrogenic. You're very welcome, very glad we could help you.

[Arshness]

If only I could actually sue for malpractice over this and recoop costs on the medical care that caused me all this misery. :c

[Altostrata]

You and me and everyone else on this site.

[mattinsmom]

I am glad to hear that you were able to straighten that out. You have come so far! 

[Arshness]

Still attempting to come off Wellbutrin. Currently taking half a 75mg tablet in the morning and 3/4 of one at evening. 

Last reduction was about two weeks ago, fine for a few days then increase in symptoms since that reduction with more anxiety than I was having at the dose before it which was half of a 75mg tablet twice per day. 

Can't really reduce any slower because I can't reliably cut less of the pill away than what I'm doing now. I can only go down the in 1/8 tablet amounts at the smallest I can manage. 

 

Also began thyroid medication about 3 weeks ago. Mostly it's made me feel a bit better.

 

Last night, I had a panic attack because of twitches below the left rib cage. 

Have had this sensation several times before. 

These have been a bit stronger and have lasted for longer than is normal. 

It's a repeating set of muscle twitches that make me feel like my heart is vibrating behind my ribs. Terrified I'm dying of heart attack soon. Or that something catastrophic will happen to kill me.

This is the health anxiety part. 

 

Have had this sensation several times before. 

These have been a bit stronger and have lasted for longer than is normal. 

It's a repeating set of muscle twitches that make me feel like my heart is vibrating behind my ribs. Terrified I'm dying of heart attack soon. Or that something catastrophic will happen to kill me.

This is the health anxiety part. 

 

I have a wife and daughter (I'm lesbian) and am terrified of leaving my family behind both due to my own attachment to being a part of their lives and fear because they need me. 

 

I have no peace toward the idea of dying so when I fear I'm dying, I panic. 

 

I have had this same sensation so many times. I've learned to talk myself out of most of my panic attacks, but last night I was failing to talk myself out of it. 

 

The sensation is a vibrating or muscle twitching sensation below left rib cage at the front left side. I worry that it is a heart arrhythmia. 

But I have investigated this several times in the ER. I have had EKGs and nothing has ever come up worrying. I have never had a high blood pressure reading in my life that didn't occur while I was currently panicking or in distress.

 

My obesity and generally sedentary lifestyle are my only serious risk factors tho I vaguely remember the possibility that my father had heart issues. I'm not completely sure on that as I distanced myself heavily from family (due to traumatic childhood). 

 

The risk factors make me afraid that I have some issue. I know this is health anxiety. I know it's unlikely I have any issue with my heart, but my fear is just so gripping. 

 

When it happens, I can feel my heart beating in a distant sort of way. I feel it somewhere in the middle of me, toward my back. I almost feel it in my breath. Like an echo. My breathing feels a little hollow. If that makes sense. I've had palpitations, plenty. They are a fluttery feeling where it feels like you can't quite breathe for a few seconds. But these feelings are not like that. They are more just... vague. Ghosty. My breathing is happening. There is no pain in my lungs. I just feel a sort of hollowness to the breath like it isn't all it should be. And the twitches under my ribcage. Is it my heart? I'm so scared.

 

My heart almost feels like it's distantly/vaguely beating in my throat. I feel vaguely like I'm vibrating all over.

I took an attarax, but felt it wasn't helping. I read for an hour or so before passing out at my desk. After that I laid down and managed to go to sleep. It was terrible, but I did it.

I just keep telling myself this has gone on for hours, has happened before, and if I go to ER, they'll just give me Ativan there and charge me hundreds of dollars. 

 

I'm hoping these symptoms sound "just like" something someone else here has gone through. If so, maybe I can use that as fuel next time to tell myself it's just anxiety. 
I'm doing better and better at this, but it's so hard some times.

I had a lot of gas last night so I wonder if a lot of this was caused by that. I have even more gas this morning, no more twitches since I got out of bed, but I vaguely remember one just as I was waking up. 
The Thyroid meds have caused just a bit of GI upset so maybe they are partly responsible for this symptom. I dunno. 

I'm just fighting the good fight, on and on. 


At this point in my taper, I'm having more anxiety than I was before the last drop, but I stayed at the last one for over a month before moving, and I was FINE for the first several days after the drop. I'm hesitant to go back up now when I've been on this dose for nearly two weeks. :c

I hate this so much. >_< I just want my normal life back.

[Meimeiquest]

I have never been through so much as that, but my whole inner chest vibrated sometimes while I was tapering Wellbutrin, you could feel it from the outside. Thankfully I was having so many symptoms at that time, I always felt it was just a cortisol reaction or something. It was at bedtime or first thing in the morning. The amino acid taurine has been helping me lately with heart "thudding." There is a thread on it if that interests you. Good luck!

[mattinsmom]

I, too, had the heart thudding with Wellbutrin. I'm sorry that you are experiencing it. It is very scary. I remember feeling like I needed to take a breath, like I just wasn't breathing deeply enough even tho I knew perfectly well that I was. 

Keep fighting!

[Arshness]

I'm feeling much better these days. Man, I have come a long way and I'm still so grateful to this forum for helping me get where I am. 

I'm down to Wellbutrin 20mg mornings and 18.75 mg evenings. 
I came down a step last week from 20mg in the evenings to the 18.75 mg now. I didn't have any anxiety. 
I almost wonder if I'm close enough that I could stop taking it, but I'm still basically taking a quarter pill per dose, so I am not sure yet. Maybe when I'm down to half that. 

But right now I'm starting to have depression again pretty badly. I don't know what to do about that. 

But nothing is as bad as the anxiety I was experiencing before. It ruined me. It controlled my life so much.

Depression controls my life too, but I don't care as much. At least it doesn't have me fearing for my life constantly. 

I've been through such rough times. I started therapy but my therapist is useless it seems. Plus he can't keep appointments with me. Rescheduled on me twice already. What's the point of digging in to my feelings if it's once in a while and not consistent at all... 

Anyway, things are getting better. It's just hard some times. The heart sensations still happen, but less now. I just hate so much when they do. They scare me so much. 

 

[Altostrata]

Please don't just quit at 38.75mg per day. Good to hear you're having fewer adverse effects.

[Petunia]

Thanks for coming back and letting us know how you are doing, I'm happy to hear you are feeling better.  Perhaps you could hold for a while if the tapering is causing more depression, maybe give it a couple of months and then do 5% cuts, just an idea.

[Arshness]

I don't even know how to do 5% cuts. I'm not going to be able to slice them any smaller than I am as is with the 1/8 pill shards I can get them to crumbling half the time. That's the best I can do. :/
So I was going to go down to a quarter pill morning and evening, then down to an 1/8th in evenings. Then down to 1/8 morning and evenings. Then ... just come off it I guess. It's the best I can do.

[Altostrata]

Please review the Wellbutrin tapering topic again. Perhaps you can get a prescription for regular Wellbutrin, which you can make into a liquid, for the evening dose.

[Arshness]

Alto, I have read that topic repeatedly. I don't think I could make the liquid is what I mean. I am very sensitive to tastes and these pills, cut as they are, will gag me if I don't get them down in one solid wash of juice as is. If I had them as a liquid, I'd never get it swallowed. :c Not that I feel confident in making a liquid of a pill anyway... I would never trust I'd gotten the amounts right. :/