Exie 5 years and still not recovered (AD + benzo)

[Exie]

Altostrata said getting off an antidepressant when GABA is downregulated by a benzo is very perilous because the nervous system needs GABA to deal with AD withdrawal. AD w/d in GABA destabilization is the worst scenario. The people who have the worst withdrawal are those suffering from both benzo and AD w/d because two systems - serotonin and GABA - that might help them recover are not functioning due to downregulation. A fast AD taper causes nervous system activations; hyper-alerting, hypersensitivities. GABA and serotonin help keep the nervous system in balance. Both help regulate the alerting system. When the calming effects of both GABA and serotonin are downregulated there are no brakes at all on the alerting system.

 

I cold turkeyed imipramine (tricyclic AD) and tapered Klonopin fast because they were causing terrible mental problems. When tapering my nervous system was incredibly hyperactive, the neurological pressure in my head was so intense it was terribly painful. It was like that non-stop and gradually relaxed and the pressure is still there, always, but it's mild now. My nervous system in my body also shook wildly non-stop and now the shaking is very slight. But my NS is still active and hypersensitive, most food inflames it making the pressure severe again and NS shake hard again.

 

The neurological pressure in my head is mainly on the right side at the back. It feels like a hard object is jamming into it. Sleep relaxes it, but my NS never relaxes completely, it's always moving, relaxing down my stomach, hips, legs. I also feel a line of neurological pressure along my front teeth often. It's very difficult to sleep even when there's no severe pressure in my head because the neurological movements and pressure in my head are always there.

 

When the pressure is severe it sets back my brain recovery making the mental problems worse. I still have a few mental/cognitive probs but they're less bad now. My brain is a lot more recovered now, my mind a lot more normal. But most food also sets back my brain recovery making the mental problems worse. There's only a few foods that don't and I can only eat them in small amounts and not everyday or it makes it worse too. and now these foods make it worse because of eating them often so I have to eat them less often now (skip 2 or more days). So now I'm running out of food to eat. and hunger intensifies the neuro-pressure.  Why does food hurt my brain and nervous system?

 

I eat healthy and get mild excercise, these heal my brain and make the mental problems go away. but my nervous system is still bad. However I stressed everyday and didn't eat leafy greens the past 5 years and that definitely slowed my recovery. I started eating leafy greens (which are the most nutritious) recently and it healed my brain a lot more, made much of the mental problems go away suddenly. and the high amount of sugar in fruits was probably a stimulant to my nervous system.Is time really my only healer? I'm too afraid to take an anticonvulsant because it might interfere with brain recovery and set it back. klonopin would but what about non-benzo ones? Altostrata said benzos ramp up the GABA system and might do this too strongly, causing the body's alerting system to set up an alarm. Lamictal targets glutamatergic transmission in the alerting system, dampening that type of alerting. It doesn't downregulate GABA. So am I supposed to take Lamictal?

 

I can't bear it anymore. I wish I could just die.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Altostrata
added paragraph breaks for readability

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Exie.

 

I moved your post to Introductions to start your Intro topic because it describes your situation in detail.

 

Are you also eating complex carbohydrates, such as sweet potatoes, lentils, or brown rice? Your body uses these to maintain blood sugar. Low blood sugar causes the release of adrenaline and cortisol, the anxiety hormones.

[Exie]

yes I eat them.Does downregulated GABA and serotonin just recover with time?I don't understand why I can't eat. it's so scary and hard to deal with because food so easily makes it worse

[mammaP]

Hi Exie, I just wanted to say hi and welcome. Sorry you are going through such a hard time,

everything is much worse when you can't eat too . I'm afraid I can't offer any words of wisdom 

because I don't know enough about what you are suffering but can send you one of my Mamma hugs. 

[Exie]

is there no one who can help me?

[alex]

How can we help you Exie?

Please write down your story

[Meimeiquest]

Hi Exie,

 

Until someone more knowledgeable comes along, I will jump in with some uninformed thoughts.

 

First, if you want to pursue the Lamictal option, search the site for lamotrigine. It is used in a micro-dose by a knowledgeable doctor and is at best a help, not a solution.

 

Extreme food sensitivities are usually related to gut and immunological issues. Thankfully many of those extreme sensitivities settle down when the stress of withdrawal ends.

 

I don't know of any books on complicated withdrawal, but there is an e-book on Chronic Fatigue Syndrome that you might find helpful. Not because you have CFS, but because it goes in depth into all the things that happen when the autonomic nervous system is disrupted. It is entitled Unraveling CFS. Actually, there is another book that might encourage you, Death Grip. Then a

 

An integrative psychiatrist listed on this website's provider list is having an e-seminar tomorrow and the next Sunday. You might find it or her website interesting. She does not address withdrawal, but I have found trying to learn about how the brain works (or doesn't) helpful in preparing me to make treatment decisions. Anyway, her website is www.kellybroganmd.com. You don't have to "attend" the live presentation.

 

One theory of gut healing in the US is called the GAPS protocol, you can google it. But the typical Korean diet would already include some things that she recommends, so I don't know how much it would help you.

 

This comes with more caring than knowledge, but I do wish you the best. Keep us posted on your journey.

[Altostrata]

Exie, I am sorry, you are suffering from withdrawal syndrome from imipramine and Klonopin. It's a dilemma when you're suffering from adverse effects of the drug and want to go off quickly, you risk withdrawal syndrome, too.

 

While the combination of benzo and antidepressant withdrawal syndrome is very difficult, time is the great healer. There is no easy treatment.

 

Food sensitivities are common in withdrawal syndrome. This also will lessen over time. Do your best to get nourishment from the foods you can eat. When you feel the symptoms have lessened a bit, you might add a little bit of another food to your diet, and so on.

[Exie]

A fast AD taper causes nervous system activations, and I cold turkeyed imipramine. I also tapered klonopin (a benzo) fast. its been more than 5 years now and my nervous system is still shaking all the time down my body though the shaking is less intense now. But the neurological / physical pressure in my head is still severe and bad. it feels like a hard object is jamming into my head. in the first years the severe pressure was always there non-stop and now only happens when caused by hunger and most food. but why is my nervous system still hypersensitive and hyperactive after this long? in the past 5 years I didnt get much nutrition from vegetables/nuts/legumes, I stressed everyday, and I ate too much fruits(sugar) everyday. these are definitely the reasons why my brain and nervous system problems are still bad. it seems taking any sedating drug including lamictal isn't an option because it could cause hyper re-activity instead. but what about a very low dose of lamictal? and would it set back my brain recovery? I still have some mental/cognitive problems. Nutrition and excercise heals my brain and makes the mental problems go away. but the neurological pressure in my head is still severe and i dont know why. taking an anticonvulsant might make it worse so what else can I do? I'm scared that my nervous system is still hyperactive and bad because I cant bear it anymore. I have extreme difficulty sleeping every night because of the neurological pressure and movements in my head and then hunger intensifies the pressure. and when the pressure is severe in my head it sometimes sets back my brain recovery making the mental problems worse. What's happening here? and what am I supposed to do?

Edited December 30, 2013 by Altostrata
changed text from italic

[Altostrata]

Exie, most of the topics in this forum are about our hyperactive or hypersensitive nervous systems.

 

Almost all of those with withdrawal syndrome suffer from this to some degree, with symptoms such as sleeplessness, akathisia, intolerance to light or noise, etc.

 

Please look through these topics and see what others are doing for symptoms similar to yours.

[Ellen042]

I'm so sorry you're still suffering after five years discontinuation of medicines, Exie. Could there be a physical cause for the neurological/physical pressure in your head? Has a doctor ruled out an organic cause? I'm getting severe headaches from the very beginning of AD withdrawal, but I can't imagine it lasting five years! Maybe I'm naive here, but it seems one could have an illness with an organic cause even with AD withdrawal going on.

[Ellen042]

Hi Exie. I'm not qualified to make suggestions on medicines, but I had a couple of questions.

 

I'm assuming all the symptoms you have now started with AD withdrawal and not before AD/benzo use. Is that correct?

You're not getting hypoglycemic migraines, are you?

Have you seen your internist recently to see if there's organic illness complicating matters?

Might a visit to a neurologist be indicated?

 

I'd just hate to see you needlessly suffering from both AD/benzo WD and an undiagnosed physical illness at the same time.

If you've already ruled out physical illness, you can still find help here from others who also sometimes wanting to die. WD can be that bad. We all have our own threshold as to how much we can bare. Hold on, and write as often as you want. Support is great in times of suffering.

[Exie]

Ellen, like I said, I also took klonopin. This is why people think there's another problem unrelated to this because an AD alone doesnt cause all these problems for so long and a benzo alone doesnt either. I took both which is why my problems are like this. Cold turkeying the AD then tapering klonopin fast inflamed my nervous system making it shake wildly and causing the severe neurological pressure in my head.

 

Altostrata, I'm unable to read the other posts because I have an eye problem where looking at the screen hurts my eyes. I can only write my own problems and read the answers. and as you know, my problems are quite different because I took both AD and benzo whereas the people on this forum generally took just an AD. Nobody on the benzo forum is knowledgeable about the AD and benzo combination either. You're the only person who seems to be. How could that be? why do so few people know? even the doctors know little. Altostrata please give me more help. its been more than 5 years and I'm still suffering unbearably. the food sensitivities are still so bad too, after 5 years! benzo people's food problem is not so bad so mine is from the AD + benzo. Other people recover much sooner because they didn't taper fast both AD and benzo. like you said, the people with the worst withdrawal are those from both AD + benzo. I feel very alone and helpless which is terrifying. my problems are still so bad after this long and I dont entirely know why or what do to. I'm afraid to go to the doctor because doctors have little understanding of benzo withdrawal and mind is complicated because of both AD and benzo withdrawal. he'll probably try to prescribe me a sedative which is too risky. everyone I've heard of who tried taking one in withdrawal said it made it worse for them. but those were only benzos.. that's why I'm asking about Lamictal. you said it doesn't down-regulate GABA and AD people seem to take lamictal.. but I'm unable to read all posts about it here because of my eyes hurting. Please let me know if it's too risky for me to take it so I can be sure.

 

Why is my nervous system still so messed up and hyperactive after this long? food sensitivities too. c/t and fast taper was the cause of it but why is it it still so bad after 5 years? is it really only because of not getting nutrition, stressing everyday, and too much fruits/sugar? I'm so scared my nervous system is still so messed up after this long and I don't know what to do about it

[Exie]

Admin, in the first post can you make my text non-slanted, its kinda more difficult for people to read. I wrote it from a new device and couldn't non-slant it

[Exie]

since my nervous system is still so messed up, am I supposed to take a med for it? this is what I need to know. and would it interfere/set back my brain recovery? I can't bear it if it makes my mental problems worse

[Nikki]

Hi just wanted to say hello....from my own experience (and I do take imipramine) a fast taper can cause lots of problems.  There is a benzo section here and I am sure there are members who come along to talk to you about that.

 

You have alot of tenacity to have dealt with this for 5 years.  I would have thrown in the towel and taken something (that's me).  Get yourself checked out to rule out anything else and then take it from there.

 

I am beginning to start eating the Paleo way.  Sugar is sooo bad for me.  I wish I knew the exact answer for you about the head pressure.  It could be related to your nervous system being traumatized.

 

Can someone go thru the site for you and read posts for you that are relative to you situation?

[Barbarannamated]

Exie,

 

Just wanted to let you know you have a lot of company here with people who have taken ADs and benzos plus many other drugs, often at the same time. It's not unusual for people to be on 5+ psychoactive drugs at once. You may want to check out beyondmeds.com for Gia's journey. Also, Aria came off several and is doing well. Rhi is another inspiration.

 

I'm at almost 3 years off a sloppy and fast taper of Pristiq and CT of Vyvanse and still having great difficulties with hypersensitivity and extreme hopelessness.

[Meimeiquest]

Exie, could you give us the time and foods that you might eat in a typical day and how your body responds? I am going to a new dr. and she says the changes in blood sugar during the day are very significant. Or you might have a food sensitivity. Do you eat kimchee?

[Altostrata]

Exie, it's not true that benzo or AD withdrawal alone does not cause long-term problems. It can and does.

 

You may have both benzo and AD prolonged withdrawal syndrome, but there's no special pattern to that. Once the nervous system is dysregulated by any kind of psychiatric drug withdrawal, the symptoms have a lot in common.

 

Do you feel glare looking at a computer screen? You may wish to wear amber glasses http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/304-light-sensitive-try-blocking-out-blue-light/

 

Here's a topic about hypersensitivity http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2446-hypersensitivity-to-neuroactive-substances/

 

Here's the discussion of lamotrigine http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/392-one-theory-of-antidepressant-withdrawal-syndrome/

[Exie]

I didn't mean it can't cause protracted withdrawal, I know that. I just meant all my problems are from both the AD and benzo.

So lamotrigine upregulates GABA and dampens the hyperactivity.. but isn't reinstating only for those who just got off their med recently? People told me it's not recommended to reinstate after so long but they were talking about benzos only. would lamictal be okay for me to try? taking it regularly means I'll have to taper and will cause withdrawal and I don't want to go through that again, so what about taking it only sometimes, not everyday, so that it won't cause withdrawal. would taking it just once in awhile help healing?you said it helped your mental problems go away. it affects the brain since it's also used for bipolar, and I'm scared it might set my brain recovery back and make my mental problems worse. So if I don't take lamictal or any med, what am I supposed to do about my nervous system being so disregulated? other people recover sooner, yet my NS is still so hyper and unstable. this is why I'm concerned if I should take a med for it. other people say they tapered more slowly which is why theirs aren't so bad, but I c/t'd and tapered fast which massively shocked my NS. I also didn't get enough nutrition and stressed everyday the past 5 years and I know my nervous system healed slowly because of that. I'm just concerned that if my nervous system is damaged (this is damage right?) am I supposed to take a med for it? or will it just heal over time with nutrition, sleep, excercise and low stress?

[Exie]

the foods I can eat are grains, bread (with no chemical ingredients), fruits and vegetables (half of them), meat, eggs, milk, tofu, almonds, seeds, legumes though not beans. however I can only eat them in small amounts in one day, and not everyday. I have to skip a couple of days before eating that particular food again. eating them often makes my mental problems worse setting back my brain recovery. some of them inflame my nervous system instead causing the neuro pressure in my head (hunger causes it too). Foods that have all those unnatural chemical-like words in them make the probs worse, though many natural foods do too like some fruits and vegetables. For example, eating 1 banana in one day is fine, but eating 2 caused severe neuro pressure in my head. eating it 2 or 3 days in a row makes my mind more 'unstable' which brings uncontrollable evil thoughts/words that aren't mine into my mind. eating other foods in bigger amounts cause mind fog or messes up my mental view so that my mental view isn't normal anymore. Eating a lot of nutrition from vegetables and legumes/seeds and excercise recovers my brain and makes my mind more stable and normal, so the evil words I hear in my mind is less often now. but if I'm not careful with how I'm eating, it makes it more unstable again. it's unbearable, it's the worst. My mind is 'unstable', I'm not in full control of my mind and thoughts, it brings evil words/statements, thoughts, images constantly into my mind. When I sleep little in one day it makes it more unstable too. when I keep sleeping little everyday, my mind doesn't become more stable even with getting nutrition and excercise, so getting most of my sleep everyday is also required for brain recovery.My brain also sets back to a younger age when I don't eat carefully. you know how your 'persona', how you 'felt', and your mental perspective was different as a teenager and when you're an adult? my brain sets back to my teens again.All these mental problems go away and my mind becomes more normal with nutrition and excercise. but they often set back and become worse again when eating every food in bigger amounts or eating them often.sometimes when food causes mind fog, it then causes the severe neuro pressure in my head. the nervous system is connected with the brain.. sometimes when the neuro pressure is severe in my head it sets back my brain recovery making the mental problems worse. so it seems the neuro pressure in my head 'hurts' my brain. but why does food set back my brain recovery?

[Ellen042]

Exie,

 

I'm so sorry for what you've been going through and are still going through. You've asked three times about reinstating lamictal, and nobody has answered. I'm sorry that this if frustrating for you, and understandably so. I'm just guessing that the consensus here is that you've been drug free for so long that nobody wants you to have to taper lamictal all over again. If I'm wrong here anyone, please let Exie know. Perhaps others also feel like it would be giving medical advice that only a doctor can give- like starting a new medicine, as it's been so long since you've taken any. I don't know. Perhaps you could get a quicker answer about reinstating a small dose of lamictal by a visit to your neurologist or internist. Maybe no one here knows what would be best for you other than giving yourself more time. I'm just not sure. I can understand how that would be terribly frustrating for you, as you've already been med free for five years. Why don't we just wait a few days to let others respond as to why your lamictal question hasn't been answered. Maybe it's just been over looked, and a response will come soon. I myself see your question as asking for medical advice, and that's why I suggested a trip to your internist or neurologist. I'm not qualified to answer.

[Ellen042]

Hi Exie. I know you are understandably frustrated about asking your lamictal question with no answer. I'm just guessing that others here don't want you to have to go through lamictal withdrawal again after five years of non-use. Or maybe they view your question as asking for medical advice, because reinstating a drug after five years is so much like starting a new drug, and that only doctors can do. Maybe they see time as the best answer. I just don't know. Because I see your question as asking for medical advice, I can only suggest that you see a doctor- maybe a neurologist. I'm just not qualified to make a medical recommendation other than suggesting a visit to a doctor you trust and respect. Let's just wait a few days to let others respond as to why your lamictal question hasn't been answered. Perhaps an answer is coming soon.

 

If I'm assuming incorrectly that you've taken lamictal in the past, then in all likelihood others simply feel unqualified to answer what comes across as asking for medical advice.

[Altostrata]

Exie's question was answered in #9 above.

 

Exie, we don't know of any drug treatments for withdrawal syndrome. It's possible but not guaranteed that a low dose of Lamictal might help. Or, it might make you feel worse. Few doctors understand about how to use lamotrigine in low doses. For that reason, we can't recommend it.

 

Like any other drug people take when they have withdrawal syndrome, you take lamotrigine at your own risk.

 

After years of AD withdrawal syndrome, sometimes people find relief by taking the AD again or another AD. This is not reinstatement, reinstatement occurs shortly after you go off. Taking an AD to treat prolonged withdrawal syndrome is also unpredictable. If you try it, you should start at a very low dose -- again, most doctors won't understand this.

[Altostrata]

There is no answer to the Lamictal question. We don't know of any drug treatments for Exie's symptoms. See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5486-hyperactive-nervous-system/

[Exie]

but ADs are activating drugs, how would it relax hyperactivity? and why do sedating drugs sometimes cause a paradoxical reaction, re-hyper activity instead of sedating?

 

I've never taken lamictal before. I dont want to take it everyday then taper/withdraw. I'm only thinking of trying it just once in awhile, like once a week

[Altostrata]

The drugs cause the nervous system to change. Then, the drugs don't do what they're supposed to do.

 

You cannot take Lamictal once a week.

[Exie]

why not?

[Altostrata]

Because.

[Jemima]

Taking any psychiatric drug only occasionally would likely increase the damage to your nervous system.  That would be like going cold turkey over and over again, and I doubt that just taking a dose here and there when you felt like it would have any positive effects at all.

 

Please note that I merged this topic from 'Symptoms' with your Intro because it's about you and your personal journey through withdrawal.  The 'Symptoms' section is meant for topics of general interest.  Please continue to post in this thread.

[areyouthere]

Taking any psychiatric drug only occasionally would likely increase the damage to your nervous system.  That would be like going cold turkey over and over again, 

Best description/ explanation of why occasional or every other day etc.   use is not recommended. I finally get it. Funny how that works.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Petu
fixed text

[Exie]

I thought it would help relax my nervous system instead, since it's a sedative. I don't really understand why it would be like doing cold turkey when I wouldn't be taking it everyday/regularly. you know like how people take tylenol for a problem sometimes. I guess it's different when my nervous system is recovering from previous psych meds but I still don't understand why it would be like cold turkeying each time instead of relaxing my NS.After 8 months of getting off, I took klonopin again (only once) and I also took xanax a few times, because I needed relief from the severe neuro/physical pressure in my head. xanax made my mental probs worse. klonopin relaxed my NS that day but it wore off and my hyperactive NS continued since. Someone told me I mustn't take it again, for how will my brain heal if I keep taking it? but some people like Alto tried a different med like lamictal and it helped them recover. so why would trying it only once or twice be bad for me?there are other people who also took a benzo but the ones on the benzo forum tapered more slowly. I seem to be the only one who c/t'd and tapered fast which is what shocked and overwhelmed my nervous system so badly. I should mention that my nervous system was already messed up from inhaling the gas in the computer duster. I inhaled a lot of it which overwhelmed my nervous system and made it shake wildly. the gas was difluorothane or tetrafluorothane and inhaling it causes heart or nervous system damage. However the unstabilized wild 'shaking' from the gas was an entirely different type from the psych drugs, like apples and bananas. it wasn't a normal type of shaking like from the psych drugs. it didn't cause the physical pressure in my head either. its difficult to describe the feeling but it just made my NS totally unstable and wildly overwhelmed, it was unbearable and I needed immediate relief. taking klonopin relaxed it completely and I never felt it again. but the doctor also put me on imipramine saying that it'll prevent addiction to the klonopin, which it didn't. I took both for a few months and when I c/t'd the AD and started tapering klonopin fast, it caused the severe neuro pressure in my head. the c/t and fast taper massively overwhelmed my neurological system causing the severe neuropressure in my head. it was so severe it was agonizingly painful when tapering. that pressure was always there non-stop the next few years and lessened gradually. now the pressure is not there all the time, but long hunger and most food causes it. it lessened in intensity so its not terribly painful like in the past now, but its still severe, like a hard object jamming in my head. I really believe that not getting much nutrition and stressing everyday the past 5 years is why my nervous system and brain healed and recovered so slow. this is why these problems are still bad after this long. but because my nervous system is so massively overwhelmed and disregulated from c/t and fast taper, I need to know if I'm supposed to take a med to help recover. everyone says time is the only healer (along with healthy care) but I don't know anyone who c/t'd and fast tapered both benzo and AD. some c/t'd but tapered the other more slowly, so their NS is not as destabilized as mine.Because getting off klonopin was so hard the doctor prescribed Paxil saying it'll help. I took it for 3 days and it caused a blood rush to my face so I stopped taking it. since I took xanax and paxil only a few days, I don't think its part of any of my current problems.How is it that the doctors know so little about these psych drugs and of withdrawal? who made these psych drugs and how is it that no one fully understands exactly how they work and how to treat the problems they cause?

[Altostrata]

Lamotrigine is not a sedative.

 

If you are dead set on taking it, I don't see any purpose in discussing it further. Good luck to you.

 

Many of the questions you ask are answered elsewhere on this site. It's unfortunate you're unable to read them.

 

If your vision problem is glare from the computer screen, amber glasses might help, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/304-light-sensitive-try-blocking-out-blue-light/

 

We're all volunteers here. The best we can do for you is post links to information so you can educate yourself and ask informed questions. Repeating detailed information in this topic for your convenience is asking too much.

 

If you cannot do this background reading, please find a friend who will read it to you. There's only so much we can do on an Internet forum.

[Exie]

I know its an anticonvulsant, I just meant its a relaxer. I appreciate the links you gave me as I needed direct answers.

but if everyone else's NS is hyperactive then why dont you guys have the neurological pressure in your head as well? I guess its the benzo combination but where are all the benzo people here? it seems my mental probs are also from the benzo combo

[Exie]

is there a topic about AD and benzo combination? can you give me the link?

is there one about cold turkey/fast taper?

[Meimeiquest]

The benzo forum is at the bottom of the forums page. Most all of us have been on both, but the benzo forum is for benzo questions. I have tapered an AD and am working on a benzo, they are really almost the same. I can't imagine what coming off both really quickly would feel like. Most of us have had some version of the head problem at one time or another. I can't imagine what having it for five years would be like. The only hint I see is your food problems. You might have great sensitivity to blood sugar changes or be sensitive to gluten. Many people find fermented foods (kimchee would be an example) or probiotics to be helpful. Sometimes it helps to work backwards...you know your brain is the problem, but working the secondary problems may help you feel better, leading to the brain problems improving. I really admire your tenacity, and your endurance of those awful intrusive thoughts.