compsports Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Hi Exie, Are you considering going to a psych hospital? If yes, it seems it would be less risky to try ativan because I fear you would be over drugged in the hospital. At least with the ativan, you could be very careful about how much you took. Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 16, 2015 Administrator Share Posted November 16, 2015 Exie, we can't recommend drugs to help you. Unfortunately, we don't know of any such remedies. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Exie Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share Posted November 17, 2015 can't try the epsom salts because I have no bathtub. I wont take a benzo because that would probably just set my recovery back and make my brain worse. and z drugs work similarly to benzos acting on gaba. I dont plan on going to a psych hospital they only give psych drugs. first I'm going to try natural stuff like magnesium supplement and herbs. if they dont work, my mom wants me hospitalized, and I would go to a regular hospital not psych. I just wish they have something that would help me sleep longer thats not a psych drug March 2008 took Tofranil and Klonopin CT'd Tofranil after few months simultaneously tapered fast Klonopin, got off it October 2008 Link to comment
NoMeaning25 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Use a bucket and soak your feet in the epsom salt. Was on Citalopram 20mg since Feb 2008 - switched to Paxil 20mg in August 2010 Tapered way too fast in April 2012 by skipping days. Taper completed in 6 weeks Tried prozac 20mg for 3 days - felt spaced out, not better. Tried 30mg Cymbalta for 2 days. SEVERE ADVERSE REACTION Antidepressant free since 14 August 2012 Birth control on and off during this time - Last taken 18 June 2017 - Morning after pill Started mainly using 0.5mg Xanax beginning 2016 for severe panic attacks and anxiety due to trauma Xanax on and off never more than 0.5mg at a time, never taking it 3 days in a row - used sparingly 6 Years antidepressant free - Still in severe withdrawal with over 60 symptoms Severe setback started May 2018 with no let up to date. Developed many new symptoms like tremors, inner vibrations, insomnia, visual distortions and dr/dp are 100x worse, i have severe sensitivity to movement, My dizziness and vertigo got worse and it now feels like im constantly rocking on a boat, my anxiety is sky high, suicidal idiation is back, i feel extremely brain damaged Link to comment
Exie Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) *topic moved from symptoms forum I hope its ok to ask this here, instead of my intro topic, I'm concerned people won't see it there.On benzo buddies forum, people told me that taking a sedating AD like trazadone helped them stay asleep. But I'm still recovering from tapering imipramine 7 years ago. What would happen to me if I took a different AD like trazadone? Would it set my CNS recovery back? (I'm also recovering from a benzo). They also said to take it only a few days at a time to avoid withdrawal since I don't want withdrawal from it. But would taking the AD just a few days be ok for me? or would it be bad for my cns?And the reason why I cant take a benzo or z drug for sleep is because I'm recovering from a benzo also so those drugs would make my brain/gaba worse. otc meds are just for inducing sleep, my problem is staying asleep. Prolonged melatonin did not work for me. Edited November 22, 2015 by Petunia added note March 2008 took Tofranil and Klonopin CT'd Tofranil after few months simultaneously tapered fast Klonopin, got off it October 2008 Link to comment
LoveandLight Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Don't think you'll get an answer here as more drugs is not advocated.. Good luck 2000 - sertraline for job anxiety low confidence (17 years old) ..which turned the next 16 years into nightmare! On/off sertraline severe withdrawals every time. 2014 - felt better as reduced dose of sertraline no more inner restlessness. Doctor rushed off again. Hit severe withdrawal. Lost the little I had in life. Couldn't get stable again on 12.5mg. Was switched to prozac. Had severe reaction to prozac..came off in November 2015 at 6mg as felt more confused and damaged on it..Even more withdrawal ..rage, depression, dyphoria, near constant suicidal ideation, self harm impulses, doom, concrete block in head, unable to do much of anything with this feeling in head..went back on 6mg of sertraline to see if would alleviate anything. It didn't..reduced from December to June 2016 came off at 2.5mg sertraline as was hospitalised for the severe rage, suicidal impulses, and put on 50mg lofepramine which in 2nd week reduced all symptoms but gave insomnia which still have..psych stopped lofepramine cold turkey..no increased withdrawal symptoms new symptoms from lofepramine except persistant insomnia which has as side effect. Taking Ativan for 8 months for the severe rage self harm impulses 1-3 times a week (mostly 2 times a week) at .5mg. Two months (I'm unsure exactly when the interdose started to happen) ago interdose withdrawal seemed to happen..2 days I think after the Ativan. Nightmare that could have been avoided! Link to comment
compsports Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I hope its ok to ask this here, instead of my intro topic, I'm concerned people won't see it there. On benzo buddies forum, people told me that taking a sedating AD like trazadone helped them stay asleep. But I'm still recovering from tapering imipramine 7 years ago. What would happen to me if I took a different AD like trazadone? Would it set my CNS recovery back? (I'm also recovering from a benzo). They also said to take it only a few days at a time to avoid withdrawal since I don't want withdrawal from it. But would taking the AD just a few days be ok for me? or would it be bad for my cns? And the reason why I cant take a benzo or z drug for sleep is because I'm recovering from a benzo also so those drugs would make my brain/gaba worse. otc meds are just for inducing sleep, my problem is staying asleep. Prolonged melatonin did not work for me. Exie, I have heard of people taking Trazadone on a PRN basis. But I would be concerned due to you being in withdrawal that it might now work in that fashion. I wish I had some good advice for you as I have read the horrible suffering you have gone through sleep wise. As you can see in my signature, that is an issue for me also so I definitely understand. CS Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment
Exie Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) *topic moved from symptoms forum I know about the other topic on anesthesia but it's only concerned with in AD withdrawal. I am still recovering from both an AD and benzo from 7 years ago and I need to know which type of anesthesia is least bad for me from someone who's knowledgeable about both ADs and benzos. Benzobuddies people don't know about AD withdrawal, this forum seems more knowledgeable on both drugs.My suffering from *severe* lack of sleep has become literally unbearable, I haven't been able to try the magnesium supp and Unisom yet because they're not available in my country, it'll take a few days to arrive. I feel like I can't wait even one more day...and if those don't help me sufficiently immediately, then I have no choice but to go to hospital and request anesthesia because it keeps patients in surgery staying asleep long. I read anesthesia affects GABA though I read some types of anesthesia are ok for people in withdrawal though I dont know which ones. Benzo people kept telling me not to take something that acts on GABA similarly to benzos like z drugs because that would set my brain recovery back. But I read some types of anesthesia are ok for us, at least once. I just don't know which ones. I'm asking for knowledge here before I go to hospital because I'm afraid the doctors won't be much knowledgeable on this for people in both benzo and AD withdrawal. The benzo expert Ashton said anesthesia just once is ok... what about when also in AD withdrawal? I just know nothing about this. I can't believe I'm in this inhumane and unbearable situation where my only relief may make my brain and cns worse. But my only other option would be suicide which I can't do because it might not succeed and I can't bear more pain and suffering. Please does anyone know what types of anesthesia would be least bad for me? Alto do you know? I would take the anesthesia only once, just until I'm not unbearably sleep starved anymore Edited November 18, 2015 by Petunia added note March 2008 took Tofranil and Klonopin CT'd Tofranil after few months simultaneously tapered fast Klonopin, got off it October 2008 Link to comment
NoMeaning25 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 This doesnt sound like a good idea?? Is your doctor willing to do this??? Was on Citalopram 20mg since Feb 2008 - switched to Paxil 20mg in August 2010 Tapered way too fast in April 2012 by skipping days. Taper completed in 6 weeks Tried prozac 20mg for 3 days - felt spaced out, not better. Tried 30mg Cymbalta for 2 days. SEVERE ADVERSE REACTION Antidepressant free since 14 August 2012 Birth control on and off during this time - Last taken 18 June 2017 - Morning after pill Started mainly using 0.5mg Xanax beginning 2016 for severe panic attacks and anxiety due to trauma Xanax on and off never more than 0.5mg at a time, never taking it 3 days in a row - used sparingly 6 Years antidepressant free - Still in severe withdrawal with over 60 symptoms Severe setback started May 2018 with no let up to date. Developed many new symptoms like tremors, inner vibrations, insomnia, visual distortions and dr/dp are 100x worse, i have severe sensitivity to movement, My dizziness and vertigo got worse and it now feels like im constantly rocking on a boat, my anxiety is sky high, suicidal idiation is back, i feel extremely brain damaged Link to comment
compsports Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Exie, As an FYI, I had a procedure a few weeks ago that required Propofol. It didn't solve my sleep problems. And when I had surgery last March that required it for 1.5 hours, I still had sleep difficulties afterwards. Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment
Exie Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 I just need it keep me asleep long enough (many more than just 8 hours) until I'm not unbearably sleep starved anymore. When I'm not unbearably sleep starved anymore, then I will use non psych drugs to help sleep. Right now is just a desperate emergency. I can't bear this anymore so I have to go to hospital and talk to them about this March 2008 took Tofranil and Klonopin CT'd Tofranil after few months simultaneously tapered fast Klonopin, got off it October 2008 Link to comment
NoMeaning25 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 No doctor will put you under for 8 hours if you not having sugery. There are many side effects and serious reactions that can occur during anesthesia Was on Citalopram 20mg since Feb 2008 - switched to Paxil 20mg in August 2010 Tapered way too fast in April 2012 by skipping days. Taper completed in 6 weeks Tried prozac 20mg for 3 days - felt spaced out, not better. Tried 30mg Cymbalta for 2 days. SEVERE ADVERSE REACTION Antidepressant free since 14 August 2012 Birth control on and off during this time - Last taken 18 June 2017 - Morning after pill Started mainly using 0.5mg Xanax beginning 2016 for severe panic attacks and anxiety due to trauma Xanax on and off never more than 0.5mg at a time, never taking it 3 days in a row - used sparingly 6 Years antidepressant free - Still in severe withdrawal with over 60 symptoms Severe setback started May 2018 with no let up to date. Developed many new symptoms like tremors, inner vibrations, insomnia, visual distortions and dr/dp are 100x worse, i have severe sensitivity to movement, My dizziness and vertigo got worse and it now feels like im constantly rocking on a boat, my anxiety is sky high, suicidal idiation is back, i feel extremely brain damaged Link to comment
Exie Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 What else is there then? :'( suicide is the only way to end this now? I have to still try going to hospital and see if theres anything else besides the benzos and z drugs and other psych drugs. I'm just scared there won't be. Then I would beg them to help me commit suicide which I dont think they would do March 2008 took Tofranil and Klonopin CT'd Tofranil after few months simultaneously tapered fast Klonopin, got off it October 2008 Link to comment
NoMeaning25 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 How many hours do you sleep a night? Do you still have the food sensitivities Was on Citalopram 20mg since Feb 2008 - switched to Paxil 20mg in August 2010 Tapered way too fast in April 2012 by skipping days. Taper completed in 6 weeks Tried prozac 20mg for 3 days - felt spaced out, not better. Tried 30mg Cymbalta for 2 days. SEVERE ADVERSE REACTION Antidepressant free since 14 August 2012 Birth control on and off during this time - Last taken 18 June 2017 - Morning after pill Started mainly using 0.5mg Xanax beginning 2016 for severe panic attacks and anxiety due to trauma Xanax on and off never more than 0.5mg at a time, never taking it 3 days in a row - used sparingly 6 Years antidepressant free - Still in severe withdrawal with over 60 symptoms Severe setback started May 2018 with no let up to date. Developed many new symptoms like tremors, inner vibrations, insomnia, visual distortions and dr/dp are 100x worse, i have severe sensitivity to movement, My dizziness and vertigo got worse and it now feels like im constantly rocking on a boat, my anxiety is sky high, suicidal idiation is back, i feel extremely brain damaged Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Petunia Posted November 18, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted November 18, 2015 Exie, I moved your topic here to your own intro thread, this is the place for these kinds of posts because it relates to your own personal situation, circumstances and progress. I'm sorry you are feeling so unwell, but I doubt any doctor will give you a general anesthetic so you can sleep for a while. There are no drugs we can recommend for withdrawal or withdrawal related symptoms. As this is only a forum site, we cannot deal with emergencies of any type. If you have persistent thoughts of suicide, please contact the suicide hotline near you rather than posting them on this site, here is more information about this: Help for those who are feeling desperate or suicidal. I'm not a doctor. My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one. My Introduction Thread Full Drug and Withdrawal History Brief Summary Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects 2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010 Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal) May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins. Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens. Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days. April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close. VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from? VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made? VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes? VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects? VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes Link to comment
oskcajga Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 What else is there then? :'( suicide is the only way to end this now? I have to still try going to hospital and see if theres anything else besides the benzos and z drugs and other psych drugs. I'm just scared there won't be. Then I would beg them to help me commit suicide which I dont think they would do can't try the epsom salts because I have no bathtub. I wont take a benzo because that would probably just set my recovery back and make my brain worse. and z drugs work similarly to benzos acting on gaba. I dont plan on going to a psych hospital they only give psych drugs. first I'm going to try natural stuff like magnesium supplement and herbs. if they dont work, my mom wants me hospitalized, and I would go to a regular hospital not psych. I just wish they have something that would help me sleep longer thats not a psych drug You can buy magnesium cream or magnesium spray that will be just as effective as an epsome salt bath. In terms of what causes withdrawal, there are 2 competing hypothesis that I think are the most plausible: 1. The hypothesis proposed by Alto here on this website (here's a link that she wrote that I think is very well written: https://www.patientslikeme.com/members/34434/about_me 2. The hypothesis proposed by David Healy on his website http://withdrawal.rxisk.org/new-model/complex-withdrawal-model/ There's no better information available, but I personally think it's a combination of these two hypotheses. As people have alluded to on this thread of yours, no one knows for sure what causes withdrawal - but I think Alto and Dr. Healy's work is probably very close to the truth. These hypotheses still need to be tested - but they seem very plausible to me, based on my knowledge and experience. --- Obviously going to a hospital specifically for general anesthesia is a terrible idea - this pursuit of sleep to any end is likely to end VERY badly for you - considering your history. It's also a bad idea to ask a doctor to...I can't believe I'm even repeating your idea...but It's also a bad idea to specifically ask a doctor to help you commit suicide. That's a one way ticket to the nearest psych ward and a whooping dose of antipsycotics. What's the solution? Well how did you get past the last 5 years? I'd recommend doing what you've been doing for 5 years, it seems to have gotten you this far already. Link to comment
nz11 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Exie, Hungugsaram emneeka? Tangshinin yongomal chumcha ha shin eh yo manaso bangapsimneeda. gunghargeh harnaneemil bootchupgo botyora yougarmeenae nonin maeyou eemdinsunghungeh. Hungug haksang eemneeda Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
Exie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 I already explained that my lack of sleep became unbearable only recently. And the magnesium forms are not in my country, the supp will take 3-4 days to arrive. And I sleep just a couple hours a night and of course still sensitive to food but why does it matter to know that? And what I'm asking for is knowlegde on which drug would be least bad for me, if its my only solution. Because the doctors probably won't know any better. You guys here know best. I know I shouldnt take a benzo or AD but what else is there that puts you to sleep as well as sedate the CNS? I need something that sedates the cns because I can't fall back asleep because my cns is tense. However I would take the drug only a few days until I'm not unbearably sleep starved anymore, to avoid withdrawal. I was told taking Lamictal just a few times would be bad for my CNS but what other choice do I have :'( but I dont know which drug woild be least bad for me, thats why I need knowledge on it from here. I'm just asking for knowledge on which would be least bad for me. I dont want to end up trying something that would be worse for me. Like benzos. Taking it a few times would get me more sleep but it would set my brain back a lot which I dont want. A sedating AD would probably do the same to my CNS. But I dont know much about other drugs. I heard gabapentin is an anticonvulsant and doesn't downregulate gaba...I just need knowledge on which sleep aid and which cns depressant would be least bad for me March 2008 took Tofranil and Klonopin CT'd Tofranil after few months simultaneously tapered fast Klonopin, got off it October 2008 Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Fresh Posted November 19, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted November 19, 2015 Hi Exie , did you ever get around to trying melatonin? It helps me stay asleep , not just fall asleep. Best wishes , 1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg 2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months. July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months. Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg. October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive. March 2016 , 21mg Link to comment
Exie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 Imipramine would not help me staying asleep more. March 2008 took Tofranil and Klonopin CT'd Tofranil after few months simultaneously tapered fast Klonopin, got off it October 2008 Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Petunia Posted November 19, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted November 19, 2015 I'm sorry Exie, we can't recommend any drugs, but some people have found supplements helpful. Have a look through these: Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful L-arginine for sleep Glycine for sleep? L-ornithine for sleep Taurine (L-taurine amino acid) for sleep Valerian root I'm not a doctor. My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one. My Introduction Thread Full Drug and Withdrawal History Brief Summary Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects 2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010 Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal) May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins. Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens. Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days. April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close. VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from? VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made? VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes? VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects? VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus dalsaan Posted November 19, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted November 19, 2015 I would also add sleep hypnosis and focussing on relaxing rather than 'trying to sleep'. This can be too intense and can have a paradoxical effect Dalsaan Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist. Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014. Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September. Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015. Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15). Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past. DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017 >My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan Link to comment
Exie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 I'm already aware of the supps and some are actually bad for benzo wd. Only thing I could try is chamomile, magnesium supp and otc like Unisom. But if these dont help much, what other choice do I have other than drugs? March 2008 took Tofranil and Klonopin CT'd Tofranil after few months simultaneously tapered fast Klonopin, got off it October 2008 Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Petunia Posted November 19, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted November 19, 2015 I would also add sleep hypnosis and focussing on relaxing rather than 'trying to sleep'. This is what I did when I went through a stage of not being able to sleep at all, eventually my sleep began to improve. Worrying about not sleeping adds to the stress which causes more anxiety which makes the problem worse. Trying these things which we are suggesting is the only choice you have, besides drugs. We are only able to suggest non-drug methods for helping with sleep. Withdrawal from any psyche drugs can make the nervous system sensitive, and vulnerable to paradoxical reactions, so no one here can tell you what drug may be less harmful than another. If you decide to go to the hospital, you will have to discuss this with your doctor. The best information we have about how to sleep is here: Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems You can keep asking the same question over and over, but there are no different answers. I'm sorry. I'm not a doctor. My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one. My Introduction Thread Full Drug and Withdrawal History Brief Summary Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects 2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010 Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal) May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins. Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens. Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days. April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close. VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from? VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made? VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes? VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects? VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus dalsaan Posted November 19, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted November 19, 2015 You could also try this Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist. Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014. Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September. Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015. Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15). Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past. DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017 >My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan Link to comment
nz11 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Wow for a moment there i thought my attempt at writing korean crashed the site as i couldnt sign in for awhile. Why do you think that you have to swallow something for making you sleep. .i agree with the others in that seeking non drug solutions to this is the way to go. Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
Exie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 The thing is, my problem is not insomnia like everyon else. I don't have insomnia, I never did. I'm sleepy all the time. My specific problem is that after waking up several times, I have difficulty falling back asleep because my CNS is so tense, not because I'm not sleepy. This is why I'm *so* sleepy all day yet I cant fall asleep because of my tense cns. Hunger makes the neurological pressure in my head severe so that I can't fall back asleep. But eating has been also bothering my cns everyday because my cns is currently more sensitive from the digital screen (because of the smog). And lately the screen started waking me up more when I'm sleepy and made that part of my brain more sensitive also so that what I swallow has been waking my brain up so I'm not sleepy anymore. When 8 days pass without being exposed to the screen, my brain gets a little less sensitive so swallowing didn't make me more awake anymore. But cns takes a long time to get less sensitive so its still been getting bothered everyday from food. This is why I need something to fully sedate my cns so I can fall back asleep and sleep more. But the neurologist told me only psych drugs fully sedate the cns so I've been considering taking one just a few days until I'm not unbearably sleep deprived anymore. Then when its not unbearable, I can use non psych drugs to help me sleep everyday. Its just the non psych drugs probably dont sedate the cns enough for me to be able to fall back asleep. Its an emergency right now which is why I consider the psych drugs right now. I just dont know which to take because I know nothing about the other drugs besides benzos and ADs and the doctors generally dont know much more. But you did make it clear to me now that any drug I try is unpredictable because of my brain and cns condition. So I could only experiment I'm just scared that taking it a few days would make my brain or cns worse. I was told taking Lamictal every other day or occasionally would damage the cns more. But I can't take it everyday, to avoid withdrawal March 2008 took Tofranil and Klonopin CT'd Tofranil after few months simultaneously tapered fast Klonopin, got off it October 2008 Link to comment
Exie Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 Dalsaan do you know if theres a youtube video that shows all of what he instructs? Where I can see this for free. I dont want to order the dvd, it would take days. March 2008 took Tofranil and Klonopin CT'd Tofranil after few months simultaneously tapered fast Klonopin, got off it October 2008 Link to comment
nz11 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 "so I've been considering taking one just a few days until I'm not unbearably sleep deprived anymore. Then when its not unbearable, I can use non psych drugs to help me sleep everyday." This thinking is a trap. I'm just scared that taking it a few days would make my brain or cns worse. But I wouldn't take it everyday, to avoid withdrawal You may be playing with fire. then I have no choice but to go to hospital and request anesthesia because it keeps patients in surgery staying asleep long. It is this kind of idea that leads one into doing a michael Jackson. Look i dont want to belittle your insomnia cos insomnia sure sucks but i also have it perhaps not as bad as you but even if hell freezes over i wont be even thinking about swallowing something. My specific problem is that after waking up several times, I have difficulty falling back asleep because my CNS is so tense, not because I'm not sleepy. Hey you woke up several times ...that means you went to sleep several times right? It might happen again then... Why not try reading a book (in korean?) until you fall asleep again or listen to relaxing music (korea is full of amazing musicians) or memorize a poem or try breathing techniques. Start at the beginning of my intro and start reading and i guarantee it would put anyone to sleep Whats wrong with sleeping during the day...or late afternoon...is that such a bad thing ... The rubics cube of the brain is trying to go back to factory settings so in the meantime it may be a bit troublesome and out of sink with normailty are you able to just go with the flow.. Sorry you are having this difficulty. My feeling is if insomnia is not associated with akathisia (im assuming yours is not associated with akathisia) things could be a lot worse. Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 19, 2015 Administrator Share Posted November 19, 2015 Exie, many of us have had horrible withdrawal-related insomnia. If your nervous system is sensitized by withdrawal syndrome, every time you take a normal amount of a psychiatric drug or even a supplement, your nervous system gets worse. If you have been trying to treat your insomnia with drugs or even a lot of Epsom salts baths, this is probably what caused the recent worsening of your insomnia. As you've experienced before, this will slowly get better. Although it might seem trivial and weak, learning to meditate will probably help you more than a drug right now. You can learn to calm your nervous system from within. This will not help immediately, you will have to be patient. It's highly unlikely that you'll find a drug solution. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
coldturkmama Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Have you tried magnesium to help you relax and sleep? terrible not to sleep but I'd say it would be very unwise while still in recovery. Paxil 20mg from 1998-2011 Paxil 40mg from 2011-2012 while experiencing poopout October 2013 quit cold turkey Oct-mid Nov 2013 great window Late November WD nightmare Windows and waves pattern Now: 28 months cold turkey...doing decent learning to deal with the windows/waves pattern fighting it every step of the way. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted November 20, 2015 Administrator Share Posted November 20, 2015 There is no way to predict how any drug would affect you, Exie. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Exie Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 since a benzo z drug and AD would set my recovery back, on benzobuddies they're suggesting that I try Seroquel to help me fall back asleep (not everyday). They said its a sedative for sleep at a low dose, antipsychotic at high dose. But what you are all telling me here is that even a different psych drug (just for a few days) could or would make my brain and cns worse? even anesthesia like propofol? People in benzo withdrawal took propofol for surgery and were fine... Remember that my brain is also messed up because of benzo..not just my cns from the AD. Im concerned if anesthesia and a different psych drug would make my brain worse, not just my cns. But people in AD wd are much more sensitive so propofol or a different psych drug could make my brain worse too? not just my cns March 2008 took Tofranil and Klonopin CT'd Tofranil after few months simultaneously tapered fast Klonopin, got off it October 2008 Link to comment
compsports Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Exie, None of us are doctors so we can't tell you what to do. But personally, if I was going to resort to meds, Seroquel would be the last one I would try as even at low doses, it can cause horrific side effects. Best of luck. CS Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment
Exie Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 Compsports, the doctors know much less than we do. Thats why I'm asking for advice here. The people here know best. March 2008 took Tofranil and Klonopin CT'd Tofranil after few months simultaneously tapered fast Klonopin, got off it October 2008 Link to comment
oskcajga Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Exie, None of us are doctors so we can't tell you what to do. But personally, if I was going to resort to meds, Seroquel would be the last one I would try as even at low doses, it can cause horrific side effects. Best of luck. CS Atypical antipsycotics at very low doses of say 12-25mg of seroqel for example are commonly used as sleep aids among psychiatrists because they are immensely sedating at these lower doses. I remember I used to take 12.5-25mg of seroquel a couple of years ago when I was still taking meds and it would completely level me for 12+ hours and I'd feel groggy and miserable for like half the next day - but I got plenty of sleep. How someone who is going through withdrawal is going to react to this medication is a different question entirely. The effects could become paradoxical and then instead of getting sleep one will get akathesia or severe anxiety and feel even worse the next day. Taking meds is a risk. I did read in Monica Cassani's blog that she utilized a very low dose of one of the atypical antipsycotics (I can't remember which one it was) for sleep in emergency situations so it's not unheard of from members of this community with sleep difficulties. Link to comment
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