success ☼ JanCarol: Reboxetine first, then lithium

[JanCarol]

Ooooh L-Theanine!???  Why did you try that?  I've heard of it, but of all the lists of useful enzymes I have written down (L-Tyrosine, but not before I'm off antidepressant)(5HTP - same condition) (L-Taurine - on it)(and more) somehow L-Theanine never got on my list.  

 

And you went and made up the liquid!  Good Onya!  I'll be able to do several cuts with the tablets I have here before I have to consider that or liquid.  So I assume that your "homemade liquid" means you haven't told your doc you are going off?  There is lithium available in liquid.  (you know, so they can dose those who cannot dose themselves.....)

 

I am heeding your warning that lithium "protects" from other tapers and decreases and events, and coming off it may bring some of that stuff up.  I think I've got a good team, a good practice, and several plans in place (though like you, I struggle with the:  what if I go manic and need something? since valium is so "evil" they wouldn't prescribe it to me if I were frying in he11!).  I start my lithium taper on Monday!  Woo!

[Meimeiquest]

Well, very uncharacteristically (I wish) I was exhausted and depressed on a Friday while grocery shopping, and I decided to go on a "bender" with Red Bull. And I was surprised how well it went. Theanine is the "secret" ingredient in Red Bull. I am trying to consider new options lately as I feel so stuck and my oldest daughter is going to be grown and gone before this ends. I briefly left SA once and came back because Dr. Shipko's essay on stopping ADs made me so mad, and I really, really want to be part of making this better. And I have this crazy anxiety from the beta-blocker taper. So I would try one capsule of L-theanine because it is so calming and energizing. Which it actually was. But a little too much, I was a bit too perky talking to old friends at a funeral. So I took one-half capsule the next day. And my husband wrote me a note on his cell phone in a discussion group...I think you are at least a little manic right now. So I cut down to green tea (a lot) and cut the beta-blocker three cuts with no problem. And then I had two fights with my husband the next Saturday and threw two sponges at the wall and a styrofoam cup of tea (sealed) at him. Good times. Now I am taking three cups of green tea a day and that is fine. Is there anything else you would like to know

[Meimeiquest]

P.S. I tell my docs everything. I just don't do what they say. I am making my own liquid because it is cheaper. It tastes abominable.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Hi meimei,

 

The (not so) secret ingredient in red bull is TAURINE. See http://energydrink.redbull.com/ingredients-red-bull

 

We have a discussion on it in Symptoms.

[Meimeiquest]

That's funny. My old integrative doc wanted me to take l-theanine and I never checked it out. And for the record, I should have tried a little tea, a lot of tea, part of a capsule, then a capsule.

[areyouthere]

I love this thread. Lots of great humor!!

[JanCarol]

Wow MeiMei, I would've just gone for the Red Bull.  Then figured if I couldn't drink anymore I'd had enough!  ;-)

 

I take the Taurine.  I take NAC.  I've taken GABA.  There may be another enzyme in the mix.  I was just very curious about the L-Theanine - and um.  I think you answered my question!  Egads!  

 

I do like my green tea, though.  Green tea is good!  

 

You are brave to tell your docs EVERYthing, or you are lucky to have a doc you trust.  I will no longer do so, because she reaches for the prescription pad before she has a chance to ask:  why?  So I no longer trust my doc with everything.  I tell her what I think she wants to hear in order to get what I want.  Feels very borderline of me, but it's been taught to me by years of prescriptions!

 

Green tea - now available without prescription!  

[JanCarol]

So I've been thinking and feeling:  what is my value to the SA community?  I haven't suffered nearly as much as most people in here - in fact, I haven't met anyone who hasn't suffered TONS more than I have.  So I feel I haven't paid my "dues to be in the club," you know?

 

Then I thought:  If I *am* one of the lucky ones, one of the ones who goes through the whole taper and NOTHING happens - wouldn't that be great for the SA community?  An example of someone who got through the taper and NOTHING happened!  (or very little, some tears, some outbursts, but nothing like what most people in here have experienced!)  

 

Statistically, we know it can happen.  Statistically, those are the people who would not be in SA, because their road has been smooth.  So maybe - hopefully - I can be representative of them.  Proof that they are real, because when you are in pain, anguish, suffering - isn't it nice to know it doesn't always happen that way?  And if you're just starting out - as I was - wouldn't it be nice to know that it's possible to have a fairly smooth ride?

 

I have news about my GP, but I'm off to do bloodwork - fasting bloodwork - and I'm famished!

[JanCarol]

So I went to see my GP on Monday, the one who claims to be "natural" and "wellness" oriented and I saw signs of it while I was there.  There were books on her shelves about non-drug remedies, herbal cures, etc., and she took a phone call about one woman who she prescribed xtra strength fish oil for her pain.

 

We talked about my kidneys.  She said please come off the lithium.  If your pDoc will only help so far, come to my pDoc, he will help you, he's very flexible and adaptable.  

 

THEN she said (grrrrr) "I would never have prescribed lithium for you, there are drugs which are so much better."  I said, "you mean like neuroleptics and anti-seizure meds?  No, thank you, I won't take those.  Lithium is the last one I would consider."  OK then.

 

We shifted to talking about my thyroid.  I talked to her briefly about thyroid being used as an antidepressant and mood stabilizer, and told her about my little 50 mcg experiment.  I told her my hair is falling out, thinning, balding, and I'm surrounded by a cloud of dandelion hairs all the time.  I did not tell her how I cry every time I take a shower and pull wads of it off of my head.  Because, that's emotional, right?  I've got to seem rational, logical.  

 

Straight up she told me she won't go for the Armor Natural Dessicated Thyroid because it's not Therapeutic Goods Adminstration (TGA, oversees all medicines and supplements) approved, and she said, "contains contaminants."  (actually, it *could* contain contaminants, which is different from saying that it DOES.  TGA doesn't like Armor because it is difficult to standardize the mix of hormones in Natural Desiccated Thyroid - it is different in every animal, so there is natural fluctuation there.  BUT what if that fluctuation is GOOD?)

 

So she said if I continue to lose hair she might try me on T4 and a wee bit of T3, which is more potent.

 

She spent some time trying to convince me that I am better taking a statin and risking diabetes.  She did not think the risk of diabetes (an increase of 30-40%) was worth the risk of heart attack from high cholesterol.  She and many other doctors are probably still fighting the backwash from the science program on TV (see page 1 of my story), and in fact, the science program has BEEN OFF THE AIR since that program on statins and cholesterol.  (is this an AMA conspiracy?  Are heads rolling before the show will be seen again?  Can you Americans imagine something like this happening to NOVA?)

 

No thank you, Ma'am, I don't want any statins.

 

So she has tested me for Vitamin B12 (I take tons of it), Zinc (I take tons of that, too), Thyroid - a big list of assays on that, about 5 things, cholesterol, sugar, and I think that's it.  It was 3 tubes of blood, so okay.

 

I nearly had tears in my eyes to say "Thank you," as I think she might help me get off the lithium, and she will *try* within her range to help my thyroid.  By the end of the conversation she was willing to concede that I ***might not even be bipolar*** ! ! ! ! That some people have just one episode and that is it!  

 

So we danced around a bit, but it was a good dance, overall.  At least she didn't hold it against me that I don't want to take statins or lithium!  Or treat me as crazy!

 

Today I got my flu shot (it is "winter" soon, here).  And I remember from a video with David Healy and Joanna Moncrief that one of the doctors in the audience said that when their patients withdrawing from antidepressants took Cipro (antibiotic with a high level of fluorine) or a flu shot - that it knocked them for a loop for a couple of weeks.  Because of Fluorine, mostly.  I've never had problems with flu shots, has anyone else?  What about Cipro?

 

And fluoride in the water - I really really really want it out.  Hubby puts this at a much lower priority than me; but  I think that is one contributing factor as to why he has been depressed and we need to be proactive to keep him stable.  Who knows what it does to those who are sensitive to anti-depressants? It's in most anti-depressants - to give you an idea what it can do to your system.  Evil stuff, if you need it on your teeth, then WHY are we swallowing it in drinking water?  And since when does one Parts Per Million PPM dose fit all?  What if I drink 8 glasses a day?  12?  What if I take long, hot showers?   What if I way 225 lbs?  What if I weigh 110?  One PPM fits all!  It just seems WRONG to put this chemical in everyone's water.  Even the EPA says so, but has that stopped the process?  No!  This is shocking to me!  How many of you filter your water with alumina (controversial) or reverse osmosis to get this evil stuff out?

 

Rant mode off......

 

I hope you saw the sun, today.

[JanCarol]

I need to share what my acupuncturist recommended to me.  At first I didn't understand her because I'm a Yank (Aussies call ALL Americans "Yanks," even if they are from the deep south!), and this item is not commonly used in America.  I thought she was saying "Bali water" and I couldn't imagine what she was talking about - some exotic thing from Bali, perhaps?  Then when she said, "If you can *have* Bali," I realized she was talking about something more common and that I should be understanding it.....I asked her to look at me and say it carefully, and then I got it.  Aussies don't say the letter "R" ever.  And the amazing thing is, this implied "R" in the middle of a word - they can HEAR the silent R among themselves.  I cannot!

 

BARLEY WATER.

 

So at first check, yes, Barley is gluten based.  But Barley water, made by boiling the barley, retains the gluten in the grain, not in the water (I checked this with my GP, and confirmed it online).  It's a traditional beverage in England (you can get commercial varieties here but it's best to make your own).  It is used as a remedy in China, Japan, and India - all of which are ancient medicine systems!  And, of course, England.

 

It is a kidney healing tonic, and is often used to ease or pass kidney stones.  

 

You boil the barley in pure water for 40 minutes, strain the water from the barley, then add lemon juice (optional add lemon zest, orange juice, orange rind - I stayed away from the rinds because of possible chemical loads there).  I've given the cooked barley to hubby to have in his cereal (that's where all the gluten is).  Oh, and a bit of sugar to taste (also optional).

 

It's got a stunning array of nutrients in it:

Barley, hulled, dry
0.33 cup
(61.33 grams)

Calories: 217
GI: low

NutrientDRI/DV

 molybdenum59.9%

 manganese59.5%

 fiber42.4%

 selenium42%

 copper34.4%

 vitamin B133.3%

 chromium23.3%

 phosphorus23.1%

 magnesium20.3%

 vitamin B317.6%

 

 

 

AND it's chock-a-block full of healthy enzymes, too (these enzymes are vital to the brewing process, but also good for brains and bodies, too).  Sorry, I could not find the chart of enzymes that I was looking at yesterday.

 

Additionally, it can even lower cholesterol!

 

All my health practitioners agree, and so now it's barley water for me!  With any luck I can stave off kidney disaster while I taper off the lithium - using barley water.  I used orange and lemon juice and 3T of rapadura sugar to 2 liters of water, and it is quite tasty - more tasty than the commercial varieties.

[JanCarol]

So I'm 2 weeks into first lithium taper.  In one week, I will taper off the Reboxetine again.

 

I'm hideously eager to get off all this stuff.  I'm tired of having horrible skin, hair, fat, pain, kidneys that don't filter properly and make me pee all the time and thirsty all the time.  Tired of waking up several times a night to pee.  Tired of having boils in uncomfortable places and other skin conditions that I don't know what causes them but maybe I won't until I get off the lithium.  

 

I want to taper it again in a week, but I need to "play nice" for the pDoc, no surprise tapers.  I want to go to her and say I've tapered this much lithium, my GP wants me off of it, can I taper again please?  I could do whatever I want, and then have to fire my pDoc sooner because she'll get angry and not let me do what I want.  It's tempting, but I think I will play nice and keep the current arrangement as long as possible.  But I want this toxin out of my system so that my kidneys can heal!

 

I am afraid that going off the lithium will make me a selfish, not-nice person again.  I like to believe I'm a "good person" but when I look at the evidence of how I have treated people in my life: my mother, my boyfriends, my first husband, and even my current one - the odds are against it.  If tapering off lithium turns me into a selfish beast, isn't it the kind thing to do to continue on it?  Or depakote?  Egads I so DON'T want that - but is it selfish for me to do what I want with no regard for the people around me?

 

I hear you saying, "It can't be that bad, she can't be that bad."  Well trust me.  If I wanted a thing, I would completely disregard others.  I'll give you ONE example prior to diagnosis.  A group of us went out late at night on the 4th of July to set off some fireworks.  They were a couple of years old, so the stems were a bit warped, and some were duds.  My husband was sitting on the ground (did I take the time to tell him he should be on his feet, so he could run, if need be? NO.) when we sent up a rocket, and it was a half dud, and curved right back down onto his lap where it blew up.  I was angry that my fireworks party had been ruined by his carelessness - he used to make fertilizer bombs in high school, didn't he know better?  Didn't he know not to sit down for self-lit fireworks?  Aw geez.  I actually blamed him for "attracting" the disaster to ruin my fun.

So it happened that one among us was in med school and she looked at him and he was lucky.  Some burns on upper thighs and family jewels but nothing more than small 2nd degree burns at worst - so no hospital needed.  But did I care?  She mentioned how flippant I was.  All I wanted was to light more fireworks, and we had to go home.  Jan was a spoiled brat.  And that is just ONE example.

 

So when I say I'm afraid I'll go back to this, keep in mind this story.  It's a very real fear.  LOL I used to want to be a psychologist because I knew so much about psychology - but I would've had no empathy, not been able to put myself in the client's shoes.  I would've been a cruel and possibly manipulative therapist.  Thank goddess I didn't do that!

[Jemima]

Depending on when you started antidepressants and how often you were abruptly switched from one to another, it's quite possible that your supposed cold-heartedness was due to being emotionally numbed and likely quite irritable. Your so-called bipolar is likely a result of this as well. When I first went off Lexapro (too fast) I was a banshee, flying into rages over little irritations. Withdrawal also strongly tends to make a person self-centered. All I could think about was my own misery and how to alleviate it. I believe that's true of a lot of people on this forum, at least in the early stages.

 

As for statins, you're wise to stay away. I took them for around ten years and have lost part of the use of my arms due to muscular degeneration and my rotator cuffs wearing completely away. Lipitor also caused the severe depression that put me in the psych hospital and left me wide open to all sorts of drugging. The whole cholesterol obsession was initiated by Pfizer, the maker of Lipitor, and the magic number of "below 200" is a number that suited their purpose of selling lots of Lipitor.  Most of what comes out of Big Pharma is lies, lies and more lies. I no longer trust them or the doctors who get all their information about drugs from them.

 

You can read my stories (Intro and Success) by clicking the links in my signature if you wish.

[Meimeiquest]

Well, as the one who was throwing things at my husband...I sympathize. But if it hasn't even happened yet, it might be a tad soon to give up on non-medicine management. Just make sure you don't go too fast...even alternative pdocs warn against going off lithium too fast. The Mood Mapper recommended 100mg/month. And they always put "irritability" as a withdrawal syndrome, so you may need to cut yourself some slack. But I will admit this lithium WD scares me....and having burned through the APs and having a totally slowed down brain that really doesn't need an anticonvulsant, options are limited. BUT I am having a lot of anxiety and nausea tapering magnesium and niacin in prep for my clinic visit, so I hope that means the orthomolecular people can help.

[JanCarol]

Thanks for the lovely posts.  Briefly:  yes, Jemima, I had been on a bit of an SSRI rollercoaster by the time that happened.  But it felt like my "natural response"  I was very frustrated with the marriage and saw sabotage around every corner.  And MeiMei - how AWESOME that you've found an orthomolecular!  Did they *tell* you to taper off magnesium and niacin?  Why?

 

I'm here today because I finally found the enzyme/amino profile for barley, and it's awesome.  This is why it is used in brewing...... (though wheat - a forbidden fruit for me - is chock a block full of enzymes, too)

 

from:

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/pig3387

 

 

Introduction | Materials and methods | Results | Conclusion | Barley energy calculator

Introduction

Barley is the most extensively used feed grain in western Canada. Feeding value depends on its protein and energy contents. Amino acids (AAs) are important to nutritionists when formulating diets for monogastric animals. These animals have a dietary requirement for certain essential AAs, some of which are in limiting supply in grains thereby affecting animal performance. Therefore, good data on the AA content of feed barley is important in order to accurately formulate diets for swine and poultry.

A knowledge of the AA content of barley is also important to cereal breeders and agronomy researchers. A quick and cheap way to obtain these analyses can speed up line selections for certain AA. Also the effect of various agronomic treatments on AA content can be studied. However, AA analysis is not readily available from local laboratories mainly because of the high cost which leads to low demand. Near Infrared Reflectance Spectroscopy (NIRS) offers the best possibility of lowering analysis cost and providing quick and reliable analyses. Previous studies have demonstrated that NIRS can be used to measure AA in ground grains but there is a strong industry need to determine whether this can be done for whole grains.

This study was carried out to determine if the NIRS system 6500 could be calibrated to accurately measure amino acids in whole barley grains, and to develop regression equations to calculate amino acids from dry matter crude protein. 

Materials and Methods

For this study, 832 samples of hulled barley and 603 samples of hulless barley were used. These samples were selected over a five year period from several thousand research and farmer samples because of their diverse infra-red spectral profile.

Samples were scanned at the Soil and Crop Diagnostic Centre (SCDC) laboratory in Edmonton using a NIRSystems 6500. The CENTER and SELECT programs were used to order the samples according to spectra and select a symmetrically representative set of 150 samples from each type of barley. Amino acid analysis of the samples for 17 amino acids was performed at SCDC using Waters HPLC equipment and a new derivatization agent (AQC) which eliminates potential sources of laboratory error common with other derivatization agents.

Chemical analysis data of amino acids were converted to dry matter basis and used in the calibration program to prepare a calibration file. This procedure was performed separately for hulled and hulless barley. The cross validation method was used to generate prediction equations. The regression method used in the calibration procedure was a modified Principal Least Squares (MPLS) using 3, 5, 5, 1 as a math treatment and 248 wavelengths were chosen from 400 to 2498 nm. Detrend was used to reduce the interference of light scatter and particle size of sample in the spectra. Downweight was used to remove samples with large "T" or "H" values. SAS was used to calculate linear regression equations for amino acid on protein. 

Results

Table 1 shows the mean contents of crude protein (N x 6.25) and seventeen AA in hulled and hulless barley on dry matter basis. Except for aspartic acid, hulless barley has higher AA levels than hulled barley. The higher levels are likely a reflection of higher average CP in hulless barley because of the lack of hulls that account for about ten percent of the weight of the kernel. Amino acid content of the protein fractions were significantly different (P<0.05) between hulled and hulless barleys for 14 of the 17 amino acids tested as shown in Table 2.

The statistical parameters of the NIRS prediction equations for amino acids in hulled and hulless barleys are shown in Tables 4 and 5 respectively. Except for glutamic acid, SEC and SECV were low for all AA. R² for all AA were >0.9 demonstrating that prediction equations for whole barley were as accurate as for ground barley.

Linear regression equations for calculating AA in hulled and hulless barleys are shown in Table 3. R² values of 0.87 to 0.98 indicate the high quality of these equations. Regression coefficients at the quadratic level were not significant. The combined chemical analysis data for AA from hulled and hulless barley were used to develop regression equations also shown in Table 3. These equations may be useful in calculating AA for mixtures of hulled and hulless barley. Their R² values ranged from 0.73 to 0.97 which indicate a reasonable level of accuracy across AA. 

Conclusions

On average, hulless barley is higher in protein than hulled barley.

2) Significant differences in amino acid content of protein in hulled and hulless barley were found in 14 of the 17 amino acid tested. Hulled barley protein is slightly higher in lysine than hulless barley.

3) NIR calibration equations developed for prediction of amino acids in whole barley grain are as precise as those developed for ground grain on the NIRS 6500 system

4) Protein is a good indicator of amino acid content of barley because of a relatively straight line relationship.

5) Regression equations were developed which can be used to calculate amino acids in hulled and hulless barley from crude protein values.

Financial support from Alberta Pork, Alberta Barley Commission and Alberta Agricultural Research Institute is gratefully acknowledged. Many thanks to Brian Rossnagel (CDC, Saskatchewan), Jim Helm, Ross McKenzie and other researchers in the PID division of AAFRD for their contribution of samples. The Soils and Crops Diagnostic Centre of Alberta Agriculture Food and Rural Development, Edmonton, provided the laboratory space, analytical equipment, the NIRSystems 6500 and the technical expertise that were necessary for this study. Their services are greatly appreciated.

Table 1. Protein and amino acid analyses (as % drymatter of 150 samples of hulled and 150 samples of hulless barleys grown in Alberta and Saskatchewan from 1990-1995.

Amino Acid Hulled Barley Hulless Barley Mean STD Range Mean STD Range Protein 13.87 2.89 7.82-22.7 15.91 3.68 8.48-22.6 Alanine 0.533 0.1 0.32-0.81 0.569 0.12 0.33-0.88 Arginine 0.638 0.148 0.34-1.11 0.727 0.15 0.39-1.02 Aspartic acid 0.813 0.158 0.48-1.31 0.774 0.142 0.46-1.11 Cystine 0.293 0.05 0.18-0.43 0.322 0.05 0.20-0.42 Glutamic acid 3.169 0.953 0.96-6.20 3.717 1.027 1.19-5.60 Glycine 0.552 0.1 0.34-0.85 0.599 0.103 0.39-0.78 Histidine 0.29 0.07 0.15-0.48 0.389 0.076 0.23-0.54 Isoleucine 0.458 0.11 0.22-0.79 0.559 0.133 0.31-0.81 Leucine 0.906 0.208 0.44-1.50 1.029 0.219 0.58-1.43 Lysine 0.471 0.09 0.27-0.76 0.507 0.095 0.31-0.73 Methionine 0.214 0.04 0.14-0.35 0.255 0.053 0.15-0.37 Phenylalanine 0.649 0.185 0.22-1.17 0.794 0.211 0.38-1.22 Proline 1.448 0.422 0.40-2.55 1.732 0.509 0.70-2.68 Serine 0.57 0.124 0.31-0.91 0.614 0.143 0.32-0.87 Threonine 0.449 0.09 0.25-0.69 0.488 0.09 0.30-0.66 Tyrosine 0.289 0.09 0.10-0.52 0.305 0.083 0.11-0.48 Valine 0.65 0.143 0.34-1.05 0.773 0.163 0.44-1.07
 

 

Talk to y'all soon!

 

[JanCarol]

Hi again.  Thank you Jemima for kindly suggesting that my selfishness was kindled by the SSRI's.  I had been on a few by then, as it was with Hubby #1 that the rollercoaster ride started.  They put him on tricyclics, and he was SO PROUD after our divorce that he got some diagnosis like, "Depressive Personality" which meant he would have to be on them for life.  They tried me on the tricyclics, too, in addition to SSRI's.  Imipramine, I think.  But I often quit of my own accord, because I was "experienced" with recreational drugs, and I found these to be "bad drugs."  They rattled and shook, induced unwanted hallucinations (I saw Bigfoot on Prozac, great story!*), took away sleep.  They took him off the SSRI's pretty quickly because one of his "depressive symptoms" was screaming at night.  

 

(I remember just after the divorce, how sweet it was to sleep through the night and not be awakened by his screams.  Sometimes I had to pull him down, as he would jump up, stand on the bed and fight or wrestle with something - like venetian blinds or light fixtures, until I woke him up.)

 

Now, if that "depressive personality" is not an indicator of a deep, unresolved trauma, I don't know what is.  I tried to get him to "go there," whether verbally or non verbally.  Sure I was pushy.  He was a good man, a gentle man, but I also felt like he was a time bomb waiting to go off.

 

BUT - all of that said, as far as I know, I was selfish most of my life.  Being moved from school to school as a child made me very bitter and I would do anything - ANYTHING - for attention of my peers.  Lacking that, I sought attention from adults.  Sometimes very inappropriately.  Now, I will SAY that is pre-medication.  HOWEVER I was put on old school antihistamines when I was 7, and THAT could've kindled this cold, desperate, selfish behaviour - when coupled with my particular set of childhood traumas.  Can you imagine a child of 10 on benadryl all day long at school?  It's a wonder I did so well in school (but I was oh so eager to please teacher - mostly)!  But there, too, I had "trouble" sitting still, I was ahead of all the other kids, and bored a lot of the time - and yet - when I look back, I was nothing special.  Perhaps these days they would've called me ADD or ODD or something, and medicated that.

 

But before the SSRI's, I was one farked up kid.  I had trouble finding and making friends - some of that was "new kid syndrome" but some of it was genuine social confusion.  Some of it was the strictures that my mother placed on me - making me wear a skirt to school in a farming town full of blue jeans (at adolescence, no less), cramming this religion down my throat that I then thought "Mom does this, it must be right" and did it to my peers.  Whups.  I was a freaky kid.  I still question the ways and wherefores of making friends.  Am I being a friend?  Did I ask about her life, her troubles? Did I remember her birthday (never)? Am I gentle with them, even when I feel they are farking up?  Still working on it, still learning.  

 

So I half agree - some of this flat affect could have been kindled by SSRI's - and antihistamines - as well as the bipolar too.  But there is also real trauma there that I do not know how to address.  Do I follow the protocol and breathe and shake is all out?  Is that REAL?  Rebirthing?  Is that REAL?  Or is it just a temporary release?  How do I live with the crap I've been programmed with?

 

I'm sure these are questions many of us ask.  And we sought the answers in a chemical solution - which only drove it in deeper, making it more difficult to access, blocking things, ruining the flow.  I swear, I mourn, every time I hear of a friend, or relative, or friend of a relative, or relative of a friend, who is on the darned stuff.  My great-nephew....my mother.  My brother.  My friend's daughter.  I cringe to hear it, and I never know when to speak up about it.

 

Whoa, that went places I didn't quite intend, but thanks again Jemima, I will read your thread, but I"m doing so much research I only read one at a time and that seems to take forever!  I'm reading Aria's thread right now.  What a travesty her pDoc burdened her with!

 

Coming up:  Bigfoot . . . . 

[JanCarol]

*Okay, Bigfoot.  My second or third week on Prozac, I was living in a humble neighborhood, on a lesser developed side of town (at the time:  1988, I'm sure)  I was lucky enough to find a job which was less than a mile from my home.  So even though I only got a 45 minute lunch, I was able to go home for lunch and relax in my own space.  

 

I was taking the Prozac because they told us to (first hubby and me).  They said that therapy would do no good until the two of us were more, um.  Well.  Less depressed.  Looking back I see how my trauma crashed into his trauma and we had serious relationship issues.  We went for "relationship counseling."  But we got Prozac.

 

So I was heading home for lunch, sitting at the single stoplight between work and my house.  It was a 4-way intersection, a single lane each way, with turning lanes.  The turning lanes did not have turn arrows.  Pretty simple intersection.  I think I was driving a Nissan Sentra (loved that car!).  I was waiting in the turn lane to make a left to head south, when, SOMETHING put 2 hands on my driver-side window and pressed its face against the glass.  IN MY FACE, right there, I turned me head and it was right THERE looking in at me.  

 

Well, I had "experience" with things before, and I knew that the best thing to do was look away, and it would go away.  So I looked around at the traffic.  My light was red and the cars across from me were just sitting there.  The car next to me, going straight I think, didn't seem to notice anything odd.  The north-south lanes (with the green lights) were flowing normally.  I looked back.  OMG.  IT WAS STILL THERE.

 

I blinked to try and clear my eyes.  Didn't work.  It grimaced at me, showing its sharp, yellow-white teeth.  Oh, want a description?  It had light gray fur, about 8' tall, with hands the size of a gorilla's or larger.  Its face was not furry, like a monkey it showed fleshy skin on the face, not fur.  But the face was not a monkey face, It had almost no nose, a big, pear-shaped face and narrow forehead.  Its eyes looked human, and they were grey, too.  Thinking back, it looked more like a drawing of the thing, than the thing itself (i.e., I didn't see the sun reflecting on the fur, or the wind blowing through it - as if it was placed there digitally.).

 

After it grimaced, it removed its hands from my window, stood up, turned around, loped across a traffic lane (nothing in it, red light, remember?) walked onto the lot of a service station, walked past a few people and cars there, walked beyond the service station, dropped down into about a 5' ditch (no water, drought) and disappeared, never to be seen again.  When it walked, it humped forward like it would be equally comfortable on all fours as upright.

 

I blinked.  Disappeared into the ditch.  Gone.  I looked around the traffic again - it was apparent to me that I was the only one who had seen this.  Traffic was flowing as usual, and my light changed.  I took my left, and as I went by the ditch, I looked for a sign of its existence.  Nothing.   No fingerprints or faceprint on the window, either.

 

Regardless of my calm description - and behaviour - I was pretty shaken by this, and took no more Prozac after that.  Just quit.  It just didn't seem "good for me."

 

When I talked to my doctor (then med-school) friend, she called it a "Frank and persistent hallucination."  I agreed.  And I tried to imagine what it would have been like for someone who didn't have "experience" like myself?  Who wouldn't know to check the signs to verify the reality of this thing?  When it pressed its hands and face on my drivers side window, it gave me quite an adrenaline-starting shock!  But I was lucky to know to check it out instead of just screaming "BIGFOOT!  OMG!  WTF????" and getting hauled off in a straitjacket!

 

More soon.,.maybe tonight!

[JanCarol]

I've been surfing around the Yoism site.  It seems like an attempt at resolving the cognitive dissonance of this world.  There, I found this:

 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

That would be funny if it weren't so sadly true. Oblivinol, indeed.

[JanCarol]

CW, too true.  But if we don't laugh, the irony will kill us!

 

Okay MeiMei, it sounds like you've been a lot of places since we last talked.  Mood Mapper????  (alrighty, more research!  Oh.  A quick look says "phone app," which I don't have a Smart Phone.  I'm too proud of my "stupid phone" to convert.  Plus, downloads, airtime, etc.is too darned expensive in Oz - we pay for 2 stupid phones for $15/month or less, for txt and calls.  A Smart Phone would cost at least $30 a month for one phone.  That's double the cost to service half the phones - and yhit - I don't even know how to fly all the electronics on the phone I have!  So . . . no apps for me!  Not until the pressure gets too great)

 

But 100 mg a month is reasonable.  More reasonable than the docs will tell you!  So bonus points for Mood Mapper for being clever!  I've actually done 150mg drop and will hold it for 6 weeks until I see pDoc again.  Then I will BEG for the right to go down the next level.  Fortunately, my GP is on my side and wants me off the lithium (even if she's still thinking that lamotrigine is a GREAT substitute for it!  egads.....)  Hubby has the chart, he did some spreadsheet work to find out what combinations of what tablets (I have SR and regular in different doses that can be combined for at least 5 tapers) - I think I need to get those numbers somewhere so I can keep referring to them.  They would give me hope.

 

Because so far, apart from my hair falling out, I am not feeling a release of pressure like I hoped I would.  I'm not feeling much of anything. 

 

I take that back:  I caught the joy of seeing a parrot in a blooming tree - I accidentally got arms length away from it before we saw each other.  The magnificence of a feather.  The beauty of color (that's an old favorite), the joy of a terrific piece of music (Tchaikovsky, this time), so finally I'm accessing some feelings that are not sad.

 

Of course, when I watch was is happening to my once beautiful hair, I cry.  I called a hair loss clinic today.  I just wanted to learn what I could - and they told me that there is environmental, internal, cyclical, and female pattern types of balding, and they would tell me which and recommend a treatment.  Then, I pay by the hour to either get the treatment, or be taught how to do the treatment myself.  That's when I got gun-shy.

 

The perky girl on the phone did say that starting or stopping medications can cause hair loss - but this is a little longer than my tapers.  (and I haven't stopped anything entirely, except - oh yeah - statins, and PPI/stomach acid things).  I think the tapers may be ACCELERATING the hair loss, but what makes me cry, what makes me afraid, is the knowledge that I have no thyroid, I have no ovaries/female hormones - I may never recover from it.  The tapers - if they are making it worse - are just speeding up the process.

 

The hair loss clinic did *sound* very scientific, the specialist is called a trichologist, and uses a microscope to examine my hair, scalp, and roots.  But of course, they market themselves as scientific, and it might just be as woo woo as balancing crystals on my head, or rubbing sheep placenta onto my hair.

 

And Jemima, THANK YOU - seriously, sincerely! - for reminding me about statins.  I'm on my way to GP shortly, and she's gonna try and hard sell me on the statins.  I don't blame her, it's her conditioning.  I'd LOVE it if the red yeast rice, and bergamot, and fish oil, and niacin have put my cholesterols and lipids into a "normal" place, but I am skeptical that will happen.  My cholesterol wasn't even there when I was on the statins (that's why I was on 2!), and I've had borderline high cholesterol since my 20's. (for 30 years, then!)

 

Isn't it funny?  The thyroid tests are designed to say "normal" even when it's not.  And the cholesterol tests are designed to say "abnormal," no matter what?

 

BTW, here it is a number I don't understand.  I "got" the American system of "over 200" but here it is an n.n number.  like 3.6 and they don't seem to directly relate.  Different measurement.  I wonder if it is as prescription friendly as the American scale?

 

Bless you all, off to the GP.......

[JanCarol]

Crikey!  She wanted to REDUCE my thyroid.  I'm sitting there holding clumps of my dandelion fluff hair in my hands and she wants to REDUCE my thyroid because my TSH is low.....oh.  oh.  oh.  I was nearly in tears again this time, but for a different reason!  I asked:  if you reduce it, while I'm still losing hair and feeling cold in my extremities and lack energy - that's just wrong.  What about my pituitary and adrenals, then?  She said, "Well, it's all connected, but we'll just hold your thyroid where it is for now."  and DIDN'T order any tests.

 

Don't get me wrong, she is a clever doctor, and has natural answers.  She said not to go to the clinic in city unless I needed it emotionally, because it's mostly just marketing a line of products.  Then she said to rub warm olive oil into my hair 2x a week (awkward) and sold me a product which she claims works!  I bought it, of course, because I'm desperate.  I truly feel that this is something I won't bounce back from because I don't have the thyroid and ovaries to do it.

 

THEN she said something about you only lose hair when you are HYPER thyroid, and that your hair just becomes dull and listless when you're HYPO thyroid.  I said my hair is dull and listless and thinning and falling out!  And if it's "female pattern baldness," then I am the ONLY member of my family who has it!

 

THEN came the cholesterol.  Too high, too high.  It's a 6, and my ratio of bad to good is terrible, too much bad, not enough good.  She said this is the worst reading I have ever had and she's worried I will die from the plaque in my arteries.  I mentioned that in the UK and in places in the US the theory of heart disease is moving from the cholesterol model to the inflammation model, and she said, yes, it's the inflammation that will kill you when the plaque (cholesterol) is built up.  Then she muttered something about the TV show - and I told her - I was having troubles and coming off my cholesterol BEFORE that TV show came on.  (I've mentioned it a few times in this thread, Catalyst, our premier science magazine show, Equivalent to the Aussie version of Nova, is now off the air for stating that cholesterol doesn't matter!!!!!)  I told her I was more afraid of diabetes than I am of heart disease, she said - "diabetes won't kill you, heart disease will."  I said that diabetes is often the precursor to heart disease.  She pretended like she didn't hear.  Or she didn't hear.

 

She gave me a script for a statin.  A lesser statin, Ezetimibe.  She said it was only 1/10 as powerful as Crestor, and worked better in conjunction with Crestor.  She gave me a choice:  a low dose of Crestor 3x a week.  Or Ezetimibe.  She wrote the script for the latter.

 

On the plus side, my iron, vitamin B12, and zinc profiles were fabulous (I supplement all but the iron), but I expected that for all of those except the iron, which I haven't taken since post menopause/hysterectomy.  I was actually hoping the iron might be a clue as to the hair loss, energy loss, etc.

 

I don't know if I will be able to submit to the statin. I looked at her and said, "So I can refuse a cholesterol medicine, but I cannot refuse psych meds."  She smiled indulgently and said, "well, the cholesterol is asymptomatic," as if to say that I was a stark raving lunatic who obviously needed psych meds.  I said, "My mind is clear, I should be allowed to choose what meds I am on.  But I will play nice, and wait to see what my pDoc says before I taper again."  She thought that was wise.

 

SEE?  If I'm capable of "being wise," do I not DESERVE to CHOOSE whether or not to take a psych med?  Hmmm?

 

And looking back I'm miffed that she didn't want to go into adrenals & pituitary testing.  I may be going to that "Women's doc" after all.  And my therapist has another name for me, of a "Women's doc" in city who is good about these things......

 

Sigh.  When did it become so traumatic to go to the doc?  She wants to see me in a few months, but I will take longer just because I don't want to submit to that argument again.

 

I just don't believe that any pharmaceutical company has ANY product with MY best interests in mind.  I'm not saying there are no good drugs, there are.  But they are not made with MY benefit in mind.  Doctors, profits, sure.  But I am the patient, not the doctors and board of directors or shareholders.

[JanCarol]

I just looked it up.  A cholesterol level of 6 is like 232.  But she was more alarmed about my LDL/HDL ratio.  Bad ratio, Bad!

[JanCarol]

And I looked up Ezitimibe.  One of the more frequent reported side effects is alopecia:  aka hair loss.  Maybe not.

 

I'm also thinking that the supplements I've been taking for cholesterol are crap.  I'll keep taking the fish oil because I take it for pain and brain anyway, and the niacin is a nice anti-anxiety, or maybe even mood stabilizer.  But the red yeast rice & bergamot can go.  Fine.  They were expensive anyway.  I hope my body doesn't go into cholesterol spasms with that.

 

I was also reading how calcium can contribute to artery plaque.  My momma has had me on high dose calcium from very young - say - about 25 (about the same time I started antidepressants, about the same time as my first high cholesterol reading).  Thing is, I *have* to take calcium because my surgeon took out my parathyroids with my thyroid.  Only later (like last month) did I find out that it is NOT STANDARD for the parathyroids to automatically come out. 

 

Further, in 60%  of cases where the parathyroids are removed, the vocal tendons are damaged.  Well, guess what.  You don't miss the ability to sing, until you absolutely cannot anymore.  It took months just to smooth my voice so that it is not harsh and ugly (my cat hated me during that time).  

 

I'm saying:  Humble.  Humiliated.  There's no more pride left in me to burst, is there?  

[JanCarol]

New taper!  I'm taking Reboxetine down to 1 mg.  Gosh that has taken a long time.  I'm pretty confident that I will be able to take it down to 1/2 mg, and then quit.  So maybe another 6 weeks before that one is gone.

 

The stuff in my hair:  Activance Plus ® is marketed under a different name in the US.  You can find it by googling the active ingredient Rhodanide.  Rhodanide is a strain? of Vitamin E? Vitamin A? (sorry, forgot) derived from egg yolk.  I suppose I could just break eggs on my head, or do egg-and-olive-oil (or coconut oil) treatments, but the spray bottle is less messy.

 

I have been losing hair less since using it.  I still lose hair, my hair is still tiny, invisible and very frail.  But I don't feel I will be bald anytime soon.

 

Like most medicine, it seems to be a symptom reducer, having nothing to do with the CAUSE or CURE,  But at least it is buying me some time before I lose it all.

 

I made an appointment with the "Women's Doctor" I found on a thyroid forum.  My acupuncturist has heard of her.  It just so happened that I FORGOT to ask my GP for a refill on my Thyroid script.  Was that an accident?  I'm going to pretend it wasn't.  I'm going to pretend that my subconscious is smarter than me and wants me to try an alternative, if available.  This new GP required me to give a credit card over the phone:  if I don't make my appointment, they will charge me $100 for missed appointment.  I've never had to do that before!

 

Well, that's the news for now, I'll change my sig for the new Reboxetine level.

[Sarabellum]

Oh my friend ... I am so sorry you've been dealing with so much.

 

I hope the women's doc can give you some answers. It's amazing to me how powerful hormones are.

 

I didn't realize niacin helps anxiety. Maybe I'll do some research on it.

 

I am not seeing any change by taking fish oil after a month. I'm taking Carlson's (which isn't cheap) with vitamin E. I'm also taking vitamin D but I'm getting out in the sun more regularly since summer is almost here.

 

Have you considered adding raw nuts to your diet? Increasing raw foods in general? How about juicing? I could stand to do all of this myself.  Hang in there!

[JanCarol]

Thank you Sarabellum!  I do eat quite a lot of raw nuts, and 2x a week (on karate nights) I have a raw food smoothie.  Tonight it will be carrot, apple and cashew.

 

I never saw or "felt" any difference on the fish oil.  In fact, I ran across a website - well, a blog really - of a weight loss and fitness trainer who says he thinks fish oil is crap: http://scottabel.blogspot.com.au/2014/02/seems-theres-something-fishy-about.html  I've taken it since I injured my knee in the late 80's.  Then when I got diagnosed in the 90's.  And injured my knee again in the 90's.  It's gradually increased, and I've replaced some of it with krill (but what will the poor whales eat?).  I never *feel* anything from it.

 

I never *feel* anything from glucosamine/chondroitin either.  However, I did an experiment:  I said:  I've been on this stuff since I injured my knee in the late 80's.  That's a 30 year run.  I'm gonna see if I can go off it, and I did.  For about 6 months.  And my knees started killing me (and I'd forgotten I'd gone off the glucosamine, I just thought I was getting an excessive amount of pain), I was no longer able to use them like I used to, it was like I aged 10 years in a matter of months.  When I remembered that I had gone off the glucosamine, I went back on, and I'm performing again.

 

Sure, in an ideal world, we would get our Omega 6 from our natural raw foods, good old chia and flax and salmon (wild, not farmed).  But I don't know where my salmon comes from, even in this fishing country, Australia.  I reckon that nearly anything you buy in shops is farmed.  And the chia and flax?  How the heck do I add that to my diet?  Another thing for my smoothies? So I take the fish oil.  The only thing I notice from it is when I get acupuncture, sometimes I bleed more than I think I should.  I've never bled from acupuncture needles before, they are so tiny.  But the fish oil is a blood thinner (among other things) so it could cause that.  And that's another reason I should take it, if my cholesterol is so shocking, it's good for keeping the blood flowing.

 

Tomorrow is the women's doc.  I'm nervous, I haven't written up a "session plan" or anything (sometimes I do if I have a lot I want to cover), so I think I will just do a head-to-toe, and see which bits she feels confident to cover.  Fingers crossed!

[JanCarol]

Well.  She's not a warm fuzzy friendly doc.  Cool, clinical, and a little arrogant, but this is a GOOD THING.  

 

Not only is she going to put me on bio-identical thyroid (next visit, she offered it this time, I offered to wait until our test results came in & she gets a full list of my supplements), she may put me on bio-identical women's hormones (depending on how well the thyroid works), and SHE MAY OFFER TO TAPER ME OFF LITHIUM!!!

 

She said nothing about bipolar disorder, other than in 90% of cases she's found, there is a pyrrole thing (disfunction?) so I"m getting a pyrrole test.  In other words, she's looking to work on it all!  When I mentioned the psych stuff, I qualified it by, "if that's within your normal operating area, your comfort zone" and she sniffed, as if to say there is nothing she can't handle!

 

She did not scold me for going off my statins, she agreed with me.  She said that my regular GP "claims" to be integrative, but is really just a center-shot western MD.  She did not berate me for wanting off my lithium, she had no qualms or cautions for me on that.  I didn't even tell her how slowly I want to do it.

 

She reviewed my lithium levels, kidney studies, cholesterol, etc. that were ordered in the past 2 months.  And she ordered a bunch o bunch o' weird tests that I have to send off in the mail, or drive to a special collection center (and pay more money for couriers to the labs, it's outside the "usual" stuff) including:  adrenal saliva profile, cortisol, DHEA, homocysteine, zinc, copper, caeruloplasmin, and whole blood histamine.

 

It was so refreshing to not have to FIGHT like I've been doing - well, for 2 years I've been fighting to go off lithium.  The battle against statins started about 10 months ago, and the continuing battle against lithium ramped up last October.  Instead, I just sit there, she looks me over, looks at my nails, orders these tests, and will use a compound pharmacy like it's her best friend.  I WILL GET NO REBATES on compound medicines, which I understand are more expensive to begin with.  But it is the only way to get "bio identical" or "natural" anything.

 

She was disgusted that my thyroid surgeon took my parathyroids as well as my thyroid (that's just sloppy work, but did I know it at the time?) and she was distressed that we took the ovaries when I had my hysterectomy, but what's done is done.  The probably (predictions here) with the parathyroids is that now I *must* take calcium which contributes to plaque which allows cholesterol to build up (if I understand correctly).

 

If she takes me through my tapers, then she's a plus for Surviving Antidepressants.  I told her about Surviving Antidepressants and the wisdom and experience I have found here.  Like about Magnesium, and Taurine, and Zinc (though I may have gotten that from george-eby.com).

 

It's like a 12 ton weight has lifted from my shoulders, and once I get these weird tests done, I can just go to the doctor like a normal person, instead of girding my loins, taking up my sword and shield, to do battle at the doctor's office.  Who knows, maybe she has a solution for my cholesterol, too!

 

Also did I mention how concentrated powdered aloe, mixed into a drink (just 1/4-1/3 teaspoon a day) has fixed my bowel problem?  Geez, if this keeps up I will feel normal in many ways!

 

And I'm okay to fire my psychiatrist now, if she gives me any more flack!  

[JanCarol]

Sooooooo my tests are scheduled for Wednesday morning.  My morning, which is noon.  

 

So tonight is my last dose of ALL supplements.  I will of course continue taking thyroid, reboxetine, & lithium & antihistamine, but no fish oil, niacin, vitamin D, E, C, B6, Biotin, Glucosamine, CoQ10, Magnesium, Zinc, Boron, nothing, none of it.  

 

I hope I don't get scurvy or go loopy from that, 2 whole days without supplements.  

[acetyl]

Hey Jan.

 

Definitely not advocating you change your plans at all, more as a confidence booster for you- I got fed up with lithium after ~18 months at 900mg and simply stopped taking it and felt absolutely nothing, no withdrawal what so ever. As it doesn't bind directly to any receptors, I don't believe there's any receptor down/up-regulation issues that are what likely cause the hideous and prolonged withdrawal of AD,APs etc. But definitely stick to your plan and taper it sensibly

[JanCarol]

Thanks acetyl, that is encouraging!  I'm being careful about a taper, because I am an excellent candidate for being a "true" bipolar (family history, stark raving madness but only twice and long long ago) and the risk of quitting lithium if you are *really* bipolar is about a 3x increase in chance of mania, and 3x more intense mania, if I understand correctly.  That, and, I've been on the stuff for 10 years - long enough to start wreaking havoc on my kidneys.

 

Thus far, I have felt nothing in the current changes in lithium.  I've had up to a 25% drop in lithium, and didn't feel that, either.  I've really felt nothing other than anxiety at the withdrawal of Reboxetine, which is likened to placebo.  

 

But I'm gonna be careful because I love my hubby and cannot afford to be stark raving ever again.  I've changed since then, there's a very real chance that my "bipolar" was kindled by SSRI's, and maybe even antihistamines.  There's a real chance I'm not a bipolar at all.  But I love my hubby and my friends and don't want to lose them all again, so I am being very careful.  Everybody's different - and hearing that someone "made it" with no sweat is GREAT news (yes, I think you are right, it's not exactly the neurotransmitters that the lithium effects, it's more something inside the neurons, not between them) and encourages me to think that I can maybe make it through smoothly.

 

I didn't join here in crisis like many people do.  I joined here in preparation, knowing how important support is for withdrawal, and the stuff I talk about in here, I can't exactly talk about anywhere else.  Bits and pieces, sure, but y'all have the whole picture!

 

I just had a Brissie friend start Saphris.  She says it tastes awful but you have to use the wafer because it's the only way it is absorbed.  Sounds nasty to me - it sounds like you are well on your way!  She is one of my polypharmacy friends that I cringe to perceive all the drugs in her system.

[Sarabellum]

Just wanted to say I'm thinking about you. Hang in there!

[JanCarol]

Thanks Sarabellum, I've been thinking about you, too!

 

I went for the blood and urine tests.  It was fun to watch the phlebo people scramble to figure out what it is they were supposed to do with these ordered tests!  And guess what?  Not so covered by insurance, either government or private.  I will be out of pocket (so far) $270 which includes medical courier fees to take the urine far, far away.

 

My cortisol / saliva tests arrived.  I can't wait to get them done, but it's gonna be an interruption in my schedule.  When to eat, when to take my meds and supplements, can I do anything on that day other than spit and wait and spit again?

 

I had NO symptoms, anxiety, anything before my blood and urine tests from being off my supplements.  But I'm not quite ready to say they are all wasted yet.  I know the glucosamine isn't - but it took me 6 months off of it to figure that out.  The consequences of quitting the fish oil or magnesium could be more dire.

 

I have been taking Relora.  I took 3 bottles worth, 2x a day, morning and evening.  Now maybe it's that I can't seem to take them at the *right* time of the day.  I've read that Relora can be like that.  I didn't notice anything unpleasant.  I didn't notice anything at all, other than the expense of the supplement - so I'm letting that one go.

 

Anyhow, I got a call from the NewDoc's office.  Dr. Robyn.  They said that when I got all my tests done, I was to schedule an appointment for a month after (it takes that long to get results), and schedule 2 appointments a week apart.  Apparently what she has to say about these test results takes a LONG time to explain and Medicare won't pay for EXTRA long appointments.  So I'll bet all my friends here who are getting similar tests will have results sooner than I will.  After all, that urine had to go far, far away.  (Australia is a HUGE country known for "the tyranny of distance" in so many ways.  Distance from everywhere else.  And distance to the next anywhere from where you are.......)

 

I feel upbeat.  Maybe I really am getting better, lighter, freer.

 

I went to see the possibly contentious pDoc.  Did I manipulate her?  Maybe.  But she was convinced of my level headedness and concern for well being, and active health practices that she said OKAY! ! ! ! to another lithium taper, and she will be happy when the Reboxetine is gone!  So I don't need to fire her (yet).

 

But she still doesn't believe that after 10 years the number of people on lithium with kidney issues is, um, an issue.  I wish I had the numbers and sources I need at my fingertips when I go to her - but it seems I never know exactly what issue will come up.  If I go now, look up the statistic and study, and take it back next visit - I'm being obsessive.

 

So I accept my result with happiness and get ready for my next taper - next week!

[JanCarol]

So - hooray!  I started my next lithium taper!  The Pdoc said I could taper the Reboxetine again as well (she really wants that one gone) but I went for the lithium one first, and did NOT go against protocol and do 2 tapers at once.  I think I'm glad of that.  It will be easy to taper the Reboxetine in 3 weeks.

 

Of course, it's too early to tell about my new taper.  Down to 675 mg. 

 

But combining the last taper - 750 mg for 6 weeks - with this one (hopefully only another 6 weeks) I think I am noticing a side effect.  I call it "stupid attacks," where I get lost where I am, forget what I am doing, drive past the place I was headed, or just plain do something stupid and then laugh when it doesn't work.  If what Alto says is true, this should be a temporary thing, and not dementia or anything.

 

On the plus side, I saw the most amazing bird today - head like a parrot, but grey - like an African Grey parrot - but this is Australia (unless a pet got loose).  But it didn't look like a lost pet, it looked like a wild bird who knew where s/he was going! And I saw a glorious poinsettia TREE in full bloom.  They really are magnificent when they grow 20-30' tall!

 

 

I've been appreciating music more, too.  I heard Pachelbel's Canon in D for Japanese Koto and Shakuhachi flute.  And a sweet one today, Bach's Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring arranged for 7 harps.

 

So overall I seem lighter, maybe more fun.  It's hard to tell because some friends are staying away, or maybe I'm just paranoid because that's what happened the last time I was manic.  I usually give people without cars, and young people, rides to and from karate.  It seems that nobody wants to ride with me anymore.  Are they scared of me?  Did I say something stupid?  I never know because not only am I an American in Australia (that's like a bull in a China shop, sometimes!), there's that "mad" halo around my head.  I hope I can shake that one.

[JanCarol]

Here's a fun one.  I watch a LOT a lot a lot of YouTube and videos about Mental Health, Psych Drugs, etc. etc.  Don't we all?

 

Now that I'm having feelings, I get this kind of goo goo eye thing that happens when I see my favorites. 

 

Two in particular, Breggin and Whitaker.  Whitaker is like my rock star, rock idol.  I listen to him, look at him, hear what he has to say and am thrilled to "see" him again.  I feel like we are old friends and we've had many chats together and find him attractive.  These are feelings, right?  Now I'm nowhere ready to pack my bags and track him down and find him and camp outside his house or anything like that - I'm just appreciating a feeling - a thrill that I get when I see his face, hear his voice again.  As if he were a rock idol and I a goo goo teenager!  

 

Breggin, it's more like, he's my father's best friend, a friend of the family, he's so sympathetic and warm, fuzzy, caring (these are all feelings I have when I watch and listen to him). He's that caring uncle that everyone loves, a big teddy bear of a man, and, in a different way, I'm thrilled to see and hear him, as if I know him.

 

These are relationships I am having with images and voices on my YouTube.  And you know what?  It may sound crazy, but it's not because what they are always saying, well, it's preaching to the choir, baby! 

[Petunia]

I also feel similar attachments to some of my youtube favorites.  I know exactly what you mean about Breggin, he comes across as being so warm and caring in his vids.

 

If we have unusual interests, or causes we are passionate about, depending on where we live, its not always easy to find other people who share our views or even understand the issues, so perhaps our youtube heroes are like virtual replacements, giving us a sense of connection and shared understanding about things in a way we can't find in real life around us.

 

Those trees 2 posts up are beautiful, I never knew they grew that big.

[bubble]

I liked the trees too

 

And after reading about barley water, I cooked barley yestreday I drank the slimey liquid afterwards: it tasted great Never knew it had all those benefits so thank you:) 

[JanCarol]

Glad you liked it Bubble!  I had never heard of barley water before.  I knew there were barley flavors in mixers and beverages here, but I didn't know why until my acupuncturist taught me.  

 

My last batch I mixed up with fresh orange juice, and freshly squeezed lime juice.  It's very yummy!