success ☼ JanCarol: Reboxetine first, then lithium

[JanCarol]

If you cannot remember your dreams, look up B6.  I have very vivid dreams, in one, I was preparing to battle the invaders of Australia and save the world!  Good to know that I have power - SOMEWHERE!  :-D

 

I like that:  Stable-R-US.  Or so we strive!

[Meimeiquest]

I'm on lg amounts of B6 and associated forms. Partly, I don't sleep well enough to dream well. And it's taking the B6 awhile to catch up. But I'll get there someday

[JanCarol]

Even on the CPAP you don't sleep well?  I thought the CPAP was giving you at least some rest?

 

It's been diarrhea for 6 out of the last 8 weeks.  Or 20 out of the last 24 months.  Or longer.  I was so sick on my travels, partly because of antibiotic.  It seems I will reach a balance, like the peak of a mountain, and then fall back down again.

 

I see Dr. Robyn tomorrow, get to see what she thinks of my thyroid, my B6, and about a MILLION other questions.

 

I'll organize them here:

SYMPTOMS

1.  Chronic, low grade infection - 6 weeks (2 on antibiotic) = sinusitus and throat.  

2.  Diarrhea as above

3.  a few instances of unusual numbness in unusual areas.  Like down left leg, or in right arm radiating to hand.  Rare, but has showed up a couple of times.

4.  Still - heart pounding upon exertion, but not outside "normal range" of BP and pulse.  Sometimes just upon meditation (attention drawn to heartbeat)

5.  Low energy.  Some depression, lack of porpoise, but the depression seems better since I started low dose 5HTP

QUESTIONS:

1.  For adrenal support, I've been taking Brahmi, would like to switch to Himalaya Stress Care.  Would like to add pregnenolone, since DHEA is illegal in Australia.  Been on Brahmi for nearly 2 months, with no effect.  Also been taking vials of ginseng, one week on, one week off to avoid overstimulation.

2. Skin resistance analysis test?  Is this bogus?  Is there some way you can test me for allergies like dairy which doesn't set my bullyhit meters off?

3.  SAFE labs claims to be able to test neurotransmitters in urine.  If they could really do this, why don't doctors use this to help prescribe SSRI/SNRI/dopamine inhibitors, etc?  Is this urine / neurotransmitters real?  Or is it like skin resistance testing?

4.  EPA / DHA.  Difficult to find a solution to ensure I have DHA going to my brain that I can digest.  Flaxseed oils break down (oxidize) too quickly and can be inflammatory.  Currently my solution is to take the oils listed on my supplements file, plus 1T Hemp Seed oil which has the Omega 3/6/9 ratio that pyroluria requires.  Additionally it is antioxidant and anti-inflammatory.  It feels good.  Trying to eliminate all fish oils except krill in future.  Still taking 2000 of Salmon oil daily, but that will go away in a month or two.

5.  Please look at my Magnesium / Zinc / Calcium / Thyroid and when I take them.  Am I splitting them up efficiently for absorption?  Or do I need to split them out further still?

6.  Can you test for SAMe to FAH ratio in Australia?  (best methylation test).  

7.  William J Walsh says that whole blood histamine is inversely related to methylation.  My HIST was low - how does that make me an under methylator?  Is it the other symptoms, such as low energy, low metabolism, depression, etc?

8.  Do I need to take digestive enzymes or Hcl formulations?  I'm still not digesting properly.  I don't have acid or nausea much (just when I take fish oil), but the diarrhea is overwhelming.

9.  2 schools of thought on Niacin:  1 says flush is essential to be effective.  other says niacinimide = fine.  I've been taking inositol nicotinate, which is flush free.  I just replaced it with niacinimide (haven't started yet) which should also be flush free.

 

Whew!  Do you think I'll get all that in in 20 minutes?  

[Meimeiquest]

Well, CPAP means I actually rest when I sleep...but that is no match for benzo tapering. I read somewhere that learning to play some instrument that sounds aboriginal and requires special breath control may actual cure it. I am nowhere near motivated to take that on!

 

Hope the dr. appt went well. The gut is not called the second brain for nothing! Hope you can fix yours.

[JanCarol]

Well, I've decided since I likely went 1-2 weeks without my big nightly dose of lithium (only had the small morning dose) that I'm going to add it back - but instead of adding it all back and tapering, I'm going to add it back to the next taper.

 

So as of today, I'm on 575 mg lithium per day.

 

I mean, I didn't really freak out while travelling (in many ways I was too sick to freak out), so I'm just adding back what I've been missing, only not as much as before.  Dr. Robyn agrees, because she hates the toxicity of lithium.

 

I saw a news item - from Sunday - about vitamins and minerals and alternative treatments for bipolar, one spokesperson said don't go on the drugs if you can avoid it, or you can use these vitamins and minerals to supplement the drugs.  This was on the ABC (Aussie-BC, the Australian version of BBC)!!  Mainstream TV, on a NEWS report, not even a science show!  Sadly I only caught the tail end of the article so I don't know what it was about.  I was waiting to hear "pyroluria" or "methylation" the way these people were talking, but I only heard "bipolar disorder."  I cannot find it on the ABC website now.    Or I would post it in media.

 

Overall the Doctor went really well.  She wants me to work from fish oil, to flax seed oil (because I've already started that) and has approved replacing all of my ALA to DHA lipid pathway with hemp seed oil!  She was really pleased with that solution.  I think she still wants me to take Evening Primrose EPO/GLA in addition to that; the hemp seed oil has some GLA but not very much. 

 

She's going to address the adrenals.  I've been on the natural thyroid for awhile, and I'm ordering some adrenal extract from New Zealand.  She said OK to take pregnenolone, she was down on DHEA (as I expected).  The adrenal extract doesn't have any hormone in it, but will nourish and replenish my adrenals, especially coupled with the herbs (licorice, brahmi, ginseng) and the pregnenolone.  I will put that in next time.  She wants me to gradually increase my 5HTP but I don't know why.  If I'm feeling okay, do I need more of it?  Is it for something other than mood support?  

 

I'll need to consult my inner "does this feel good" before adding that one.   

 

Overall, she is impressed with the work I've been doing, and it's awesome to have someone to sound off and who can make sense of things when they get overwhelming!  (I'm lucky, I have my friend back home who is a functional MD, and a naturopath here)

 

And except for the gut thing, I'm not doing too badly.  Oh, and the bruising thing - I'm the only person in karate class who ends up with horrid bruising on my hands and forearms from our wrist lock exercises.....and it doesn't seem to matter who my partner is, either.

[Meimeiquest]

Great news! I hope your bruising is just from fish oil - it does thin the blood some.

[JanCarol]

Yar, except the fish oil is like, 1/4 of what it used to be!  That's what my acupuncturist says, too, that it increases bleeding.  

 

I read somewhere (and this could've been up my arse or woo woo) that it's an indicator of poor kidney function, as well?  Well, stay tuned.  Thank goodness for Hiridoid cream (I haven't seen it in the US, it is like heparin for the skin, dissolves bruising fairly quickly)!

 

Now off to hubby doctor to see what the biopsy was all about . . . and what it means for the future. . . 

[JanCarol]

Oh k.  Hubby's news was not terrible, but more intervention is recommended.  

 

There's a little health nut in me that says every time they go in there and poke around and needle and cut, it "angers" and irritates the cancer and makes it worse.  But my logical mind says, "how can I prove it?"

 

They upped his Gleason score (for those of you unfamiliar with prostate, this is a score combining PSA levels, information about lesions and tumours, and aggression of those lesion of tumours, into a "score" which determines course of action.  The scale is exponential, so that a 5 is twice as bad as a 4, etc.  The highest score is 9, and that's rather fatal.) from a 6 (wait, watch, active surveillance) to a 7 (time to intervene).  

 

It looks like the best option is to remove the prostate.  The last time I researched this, in 1997, for father of a boyfriend, the surgical and radiotherapy options weren't fantastic, and radioactive seeds were the best at this stage.  Radioactive seeds are hardly used anymore, instead it's more targeted, but the side effects and disruption are awful.  Back then (in 1997) the chances of urinary incontinence were like, 40-60% depending on methods, impotence, 30-50%, and with radiotherapy, the bowel problems were significant.  That last - radiotherapy and bowel problems - is still true.  But the surgery is keyhole now, with robotic arms, maybe even guided by MRI, like his biopsy was, to spare as many nerves as possible.  So that incontinence is only like 5% (after 6 months healing), and impotence - well - some things are changed forever, is now more like 5-10%, depending on how you measure it.  (I'll spare you the visual details of that one).

 

So it looks like we have a prostatectomy on the calendar in the near future.  The plus side is, hubby can take off as much as he likes from work, no pressure there, other than pressure he places on himself.

 

Additionally (and this may seem trivial, but I've waited 5 years or more for this acknowledgement) I'm scheduled to be karate tested in November.  Of course, does the Kanchu tell me WHEN?  No.  So he schedules it for a weekend that we are out of town.  Now he's moved it up to the weekend of the 7th (I think) but he still hasn't told me when or where.  Puh-leeze!  We are adults now, with plans and schedules, and we can't just jump on a moments notice.  Give me something to work toward, give me a date and a time and a place, so I can put it on the darned calendar and schedule around it!

 

Now with the prostatectomy on the books, and we're trying to plan our theatre dates, I have this vague, "this MIGHT be testing weekend" thing.  And I don't know if this is a 2 hour test, a 6 hour test or what.  I'm confident in my technique, though there is some newer stuff I'm not very good at.  The thing is, I have adrenal fatigue, and whatever it is, it will also involve 100 situps, pushups, and leg lifts before I qualify for the test.  I will be wiped out for a few days afterward - it would be nice to be able to plan for the thing.  

[JanCarol]

For my next trick, I will now do without antihistamines or anti-inflammatories for a week in order to take my IGg allergy test.

 

It amuses me highly that for all we make our changes slowly slowly and carefully, sometimes the natural medicine thing requires abrupt and shocking changes.

 

My antihistamines got raised when I went to the USA, to ensure that I didn't get sick.  I had just tapered them back to 3/4.  And the anti-inflammatories are rather vital for controlling pain.  Oh, magnesium my friend.  I got new magnesium chloride "gel" in the US, it is stronger than the gel I got here in Oz, but it is sticky and runny, and not nearly as nice to use.  So I use it less often, thinking, "do I really want to be all sticky on my back and legs?"  I guess I'll just have to be "tacky Jan" in the week I have to be off of the anti inflammatories.

 

At the same time, however, I will be starting up my adrenal support extract.  This is from porcine glands (good thing I'm no longer vegetarian), but contains no hormones or steroids from the glands.  It is meant to be nutritional support to rebuild the adrenals, which mine are fully crashed by my estimation.

 

For the most part, making these changes is like turning a giant ship, it takes time.  That's why this "go off your antihistamines and anti-inflammatories" for 7 days before taking this test is shocking.  That's why I call it a feat, a trick, like jumping from a high dive into a bucket.  We'll see how this goes!

 

On the plus side, I'm having epic dreams with heroes, villains, monsters, and friends all joining together for the good of the village.  

[Altostrata]

JC, please let us know how you and your husband are doing. And good luck with the karate test!

[JanCarol]

Thank you Alto!  I have 2 months to prepare for karate test.  November 29 is our date, but we still don't know what time, how long, what venue, etc.  I love the communication (er, irony here) in this new school.

 

Today we get the call from the surgeon for hubby, to determine when that is going to happen.  I'm pressing for AFTER holidays, AFTER karate test, to early / mid December.  He's pressing for when they are most slammed at work, to get out of the worst of it.  ("Hey, it's cancer man, the surgeon said . . . . ")

 

DAY 1 of "no antihistamines or anti-inflammatories" is a day of headache pain.  Not blinding yet, but if it escalates, I'm not sure what to do.

 

For my next trick, I will explore issues that may or may not belong here, but it's the best place to lay it out.  I'll start a separate post.

[JanCarol]

Okay, I have come to realize that my major, most damaging trauma is the most recent one.

 

I was inducted into a cult.  But not like you read about or see on TV.  This was a cult of 2.

 

You see, I met the Yogi when I was down, depressed and out.  I had just been evicted (after a possible manic episode, or "spiritual emergency" as Grof would say), and was living in squalor and paranoia.  But here was this man with shining blue eyes and centered being.  I knew the yoga, I knew the spellcraft and psychology, I believed in light and science and the science of light.  But this guy had something different.

 

What I didn't realize was that he had FULL SANCTION from his indoctrination into TM to believe that he was Invincible, infallible, and that every choice he made was right.  (which by default made me wrong, always wrong.)

 

And he took me up and introduced me to His Bliss.  This is a difficult topic to discuss, because it falls into the category of cults.  And psychopaths / narcissists,  And predators.  And even mental illness, as I later have found that TM can induce sleep cycle changes, depression, fogginess, haze, all of the things I'm trying to adjust in my efforts to heal.  And ultimately, to escape this, I succumbed to medication (again, but "for life" medication) as a direct result of this.

 

The indoctrination started simply, he gave me a tape of beautiful music - which he had made - to play every night before sleep.  It soothed away the Arriving UFO's and Men In Black, and late night problems which were part of my spiritual emergency / manic episode.  He changed my diet, which reduced my protein and made me more suggestible.  He changed my clothes, which made me more feminine, less of the tomboy that I always was.  He took me away from martial arts, because they weren't feminine, they were destructive, not uplifting.  I cried when I left the tae-kwon-do dojo for the last time.  He cut me away from my friends and family, "Why do you need them, when you have 'One Such As Me?'" (he never called himself enlightened, or Rishi, or Sidhi, or anything, just "One Such As Me.")

 

He made me confess my worst crimes and deepest sins and wildest excesses, gently chiding me on - then held them over my head like a guillotine!  How could I ruin his perfect bride by filling myself with so much corruption?  

 

THE BLISS WAS GONE, but there were glimpses, memories of bliss.  Of playing music together, of times when I felt I was the only light in his eyes, the only one.  If only I could atone for my past excesses. 

 

He gave me ideas about how to atone for those past excesses.  Some of them are sexual and unmentionable here.  Most of them were sexual, such as - for every lover I had in the past, I was to find a new lover for him, and he would take that lover while I watched and cried.  If I could do that - bring him dozens of lovers - it might cleanse my filthy heart, my dirty being. 

 

I tried so hard to be the "perfect Jan" for him, to make it so that he would want me again, to invite and court the Bliss and Grace of God into my heart and life again.

 

But there was always a part of me which resisted total surrender.  There were introductions of other indoctrinations, such as writings of Gurus.  Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, Balsekar, Muktananda, Babaji, and he would laugh at me, and say, "Oh, you are too simple for Jnani" (wisdom yoga, the yoga of discourse of the mind), "You would do better serving in Bhakti Yoga" (devotion yoga, yoga of worship).  I took TM, and started the meditation.

 

It got so that I was afraid to fart.  The diet wasn't good for me, I was having trouble working.  My sleep schedules were way out of whack, getting worse and worse, and I kept thinking if only I could meditate more, more deeply, better, it would get better.

 

I signed up for a review course to sit for the CPA exam again.  But he told me, "You don't need that, you need me."  But I told him I could double my income and not have to work so hard, and be able to meditate more, if only I could pass the damned exam.  He kept me from classes every chance I got, and as a result, I didn't pass the CPA exam again.  Close, but no cigar.

 

I watched how he treated his family, especially his mother and brother.  His brother reminded me of my brother - not super intelligent, but with emotional intelligence, a beautiful family, and an aptitude for making money.  Yogi scorned this activity, but also wanted to learn how he could make money like that as passive income (stock market).  He mocked his mother cruelly, her weight, her stupidity, her looks, her choices (this should have been a huge alarm bell for me!) then he would laugh and make her laugh and it was "all in good fun."  But it was real, and it was cruel.  Recently she wrote me to tell me she wanted to move to be near him, and I had no return address, or I would've told her "NO!  Stay with your grandchildren and your other son!"

 

Then, a tragedy happened in my ex-husband's family.  His father shot his mother then himself.  It was very mysterious, but the ex- inherited around a half million dollars, and was ready to leave the marital home (at the time of divorce, neither of us could buy the other out), if I would take over payments, which were lower than my current rent, and in the town where I wanted to live, where my friends were.  The Yogi was against this.  He lived 50 minutes from that house.  It would be harder to control me there.  The house was MINE, all mine, so he declared it filthy and unclean and not suitable for "one such as he" and limited his time with me there to short visits, no more staying the night.

 

THIS helped break me free.  That, and the fact that in order to take possession of the house, I needed to seriously 5 coat repaint the walls (ex-hubby had smoked in the house), repair the holes in the walls (where he'd thrown furniture through it, possibly just for me), sand down the places where he carved passive-aggressive messages in the woodwork, and completely replace the carpets and flooring.  THEN I had to move in.  By the time I did that, I collapsed into a (adrenal fatigued, I'm sure) heap and couldn't get up off the floor.  I had a friend who would take a walk in the park with me every day at 9.  But if I talked about it, I would cry, and then I would get a headache, and then I couldn't go to work.  And if I couldn't go to work, then my problems would get worse!  It was probably the deepest depression I'd ever experienced (and I'd had more than a few by this time).

 

My friend suggested I get help.  And she was likely right.  And my best friend who is an MD-Doc had suggested for years that I might be bipolar, based on my "extreme responses" to Prozac and SSRI's.  So I went to a MSW that I trusted from 5 years before, and she and the Psychiatrist decided that yes, I had Bipolar II.  (this was upgraded to Bipolar I when they changed the DSM IV-TR).  I submitted.

 

So I accepted that the meds were "for life."  I read Patty Duke and Kay Redfield-Jamison.  I reported to the docs, and in their 12 minutes, they would tell me what adjustments to make.  They became my surrogate guru. By accepting the diagnosis, I no longer needed to claim responsibility for my former excesses.  They must have been "manic episodes."  All my sins (temporarily) went away.   Sometimes to remove a thorn, you need another thorn.

 

Now I am ready to remove ALL the thorns, and find that passionate, energetic person I once was.

 

ONLY THIS MONTH have I learned that many of the symptoms, the depression, the derealization and depersonalization, the anhedonia, all of these things could be caused by the TM technique itself.  Add to that the fact that the "love of my life" ripped away all of my belief systems, and rebuilt me to be an empty vessel to contain "His Bliss," and it is a huge contributing factor to my "spiritual emergencies" and "mental health crises."  

 

So I'm here in Surviving Antidepressants.  But it's more than that.  It's surviving The Yogi.  It's surviving the Cult. It's surviving a narcissist/psychopath.  It's unraveling all of those pieces (such as decades of old style antihistamines) that make me me.  And it's a wonder, I'm here telling about it.  And it doesn't feel charged, just angry, just righteously so. 

[JanCarol]

And now the thot plickens......

 

I just got some mail back from the ex-husband.  Learned that he died in 2006.  Suspect suicide, but cannot find ANYTHING.  His 3rd wife won't speak to me, I am the enemy.  Same for my ex-sister-in-law (the only two related people I could find on the web).

 

This is complicated because my property in Indiana is in his name, I was counting on him to sign the sales papers.  The mortgage is in his name (the mortgage company has been happily taking my money).  The property should be excluded from probate free and clear, due to the divorce decree.  But it's a mess.  And I'm 14,000 miles away gonna try and unravel it from here.  :-(

 

Additionally, I do not get closure.  He wasn't a monster, I was a selfish, pushy ***** of a wife - but I was also neglected in that marriage.  It would have been nice to get a goodbye.  To have something to say goodbye to.  To understand why he died, if he committed suicide, or what happened to him (he was accident prone).  I know it happens every day, people die, and people don't get closure.  But it has happened to me, and it doesn't feel nice. 

 

I also lost a dear friend (careless of me, I know) from the same era of my life (met them both in the late 80's) who died of congestive heart failure / pneumonia in early September.  I'm feeling bereft, and yet, I feel like I'm wrapped in cotton wool - like I should be feeling more from these losses (even though one is 8 years old, I just found out about it) than I am.

 

It is good that I'm feeling fairly strong for dealing with this.

[Meimeiquest]

Wow. Just thinking of all you have been processing from post before this, and now this. I am so sorry.

[JanCarol]

From page 6 of this thread:  

 

 

 

Hi again.  Thank you Jemima for kindly suggesting that my selfishness was kindled by the SSRI's.  I had been on a few by then, as it was with Hubby #1 that the rollercoaster ride started.  They put him on tricyclics, and he was SO PROUD after our divorce that he got some diagnosis like, "Depressive Personality" which meant he would have to be on them for life.  They tried me on the tricyclics, too, in addition to SSRI's.  Imipramine, I think.  But I often quit of my own accord, because I was "experienced" with recreational drugs, and I found these to be "bad drugs."  They rattled and shook, induced unwanted hallucinations (I saw Bigfoot on Prozac, great story!*), took away sleep.  They took him off the SSRI's pretty quickly because one of his "depressive symptoms" was screaming at night.  

 

(I remember just after the divorce, how sweet it was to sleep through the night and not be awakened by his screams.  Sometimes I had to pull him down, as he would jump up, stand on the bed and fight or wrestle with something - like venetian blinds or light fixtures, until I woke him up.)

 

Now, if that "depressive personality" is not an indicator of a deep, unresolved trauma, I don't know what is.  I tried to get him to "go there," whether verbally or non verbally.  Sure I was pushy.  He was a good man, a gentle man, but I also felt like he was a time bomb waiting to go off.

 

 

So now that time bomb went off.  Ex-husband, husband #1, took his own life in 2006, only I just learned about it last week.  I can't remember if I wrote about it in here or not yet, I'm just reviewing my past posts (this is a good thing) and getting links to look at Jemima's story and others....)  But I had to say it.  "A time bomb waiting to go off" and when I said that, I didn't know that the bomb went off 3 months after we last spoke, in 2005.

[JanCarol]

So, 7 days without anti-inflammatories, and antihistamines.  The first thing I did after the blood test was take a benadryl to stop the itching.  Then a couple of house later, some ibuprofen.

 

I learned that I have a lot of pain, and I get by and get through, with the help of painkillers.

 

I also learned that my allergies are real, and that I may always be on tiny amounts of antihistamine.  At first I thought I might make it, maybe I'd be fine without them.  But no.  And there's something in the air right now that's getting everyone, many people are complaining of hay fever.  If I were smart enough to figure out the blooming cycles here, maybe I could get by with a few months off the antihistmines here and there.  But it seems like it's blooming year round here.

 

I then slept and slept and slept.  I guess I was losing sleep from the pain and allergies.  And the benadryl, coupled with pain meds, made me so sleepy that I was like hungover the next day.

 

I'm just now starting to feel recovered, after an acupuncture treatment yesterday, and I will try a new massage therapist tomorrow.  Her studio backs up against a Reserve - it's a beautiful setting.  She's mature, so I'm hoping that her experience will be more than just waving feathers and crystals over me.......that's all good and well, but I need help with pain.  Woo just doesn't quite cut it.

[Meimeiquest]

You've sure been through a lot lately. Finding out you lost someone you loved so tragically, so long after the fact, must be a unique kind of grieving. I'm sorry.

[JanCarol]

Massage therapist is excellent!  She has her own spring water which she has in a cooler to drink, and uses in her treatments.  She has one treatment where you lay on a table, and the showerheads over you massage you with hot spring water, and she massages you too.  She has a hot tub (yay!) and a sauna (hooray!), and is in lovely bush setting.  Finally, I think I've found someone I can work with.  It only took 12 years of looking . . . 

[mammaP]

WOW that sounds amazing Jan, I'm really happy for you that you found this hidden treasure. 

[JanCarol]

So I took a couple of days to re-read my own blog here.  And overall, I think I'm in a much much better place!

 

I have gotten so that I take feelings, even pleasurable ones (like massage) for granted (don't do that!  Enjoy them while they last!), that I reach out to people more, that I'm bolder about trying new things, about making that phone call.

 

I've been regular, almost religious, about my sunlight treatment.  (less religious about wearing the blue blocks because I got optical glasses and I wear them a fair bit at night.  I don't do the late night pig out so much, trying to power myself down with carbs.

 

I still have issues with my kidneys and with energy, but it feels so much more hopeful and helpful having a team to turn to when things need assistance.

 

I've had some traumas come up, and they haven't shattered my world.  They're not pleasant, but they don't kill me, either.

 

I'm not even halfway off the lithium.  I'm not sure I will go all the way off yet.  What I'd like to do is come all the way off lithium carbonate, and then manage with tiny amounts of lithium orotate.  But the best laid plans of mice and men . . . .

 

Anyhow, after complaining for what feels like MONTHS, I thought I would do a stock check and share my realizations that I'm coming along quite nicely.  I'm more likely to blog symptoms (that's natural, normal), and that can be helpful for others who can say, "yes, I've felt that too." but it's also important to "always look on the bright side of life!"  (whistles!)

[JanCarol]

So - waves.

 

But not without cause.  This ex-husband suicide has affected me more than I expected.  I mean, I left him nearly 20 years ago now.  But I spent 4 hours on the phone to his widow yesterday and that brought up a lot of stuff.

 

Being lied to.  Living under the oppression of his deep unhappiness.  Always strategizing, trying to find a way to make things better.  Things weren't so bad, and yet, he never got better.  Not on any of the antidepressants, not with exercise program (actually, we were into running fitness courses when we were dating - and that seemed to make both of us happier), not with vacations or treats or recreation of any sort.

 

She said that he actually got some relief from X-tacy.  But I know how temporary that would be.  I remember doing that with him maybe 3 times in our last few years together, and it did open him up to his inner child, to feelings, to a certain freedom that he didn't have at other times.  I remember thinking at the time, "I wish we could do this in a therapeutic setting."  (once upon a time that was available, but not in the 90's).

 

His puppy.  His puppy was everything.  But at the end, he left his puppy bereft.  She moped and moped until the widow had to put her to sleep.

 

So many lies, so many little traumas.  And I just got the little everyday traumas.  The widow had to deal with the suicide.  Putting the dog down.  The effect on her children - it totally derailed them, the boy went into psychotic bipolar, now "on meds for life."  The girl was planning to go to Purdue for engineering - bright, hopeful - couldn't even finish high school, had to get a GED because she couldn't be around people.  None of them trust people at all now.

 

So when I say that my conversation with her affected me - I am only hoping that it didn't affect her as much, or maybe it lifted her spirits to unburden these things she's held onto for so long.

 

Last night, I had trouble sleeping.  When I did sleep, I dreamed of seeing him in a decrepit, run down attic of a restaurant (restaurant was his work).  Then my next dream was of having driven too far and gotten lost with no GPS and trying to find the right train to get home.  As I woke up, I was taking an elevator up to a platform on like a 30 story building.  Very anxious, very unsettled.

 

In the daytime, I don't want to do anything, I'm sluggish, my energy is drained.  It's like a PTSD depression hit just from hearing all about what happened.  I can only hope that I unburdened her somewhat by taking it on myself - but - I know it only works that way in Shamanic Trance stuff......I keep seeing things - learning things - "so that's why he . . . :"  and "OMG, that guy was arrested for child pornography?  Maybe he . . . did that to him?" and thinking about sitting across the dinner table from this man, and wondering about his secret smile. 

 

And wondering, so much I will never know, but I know so much more now.  I think about his awkwardness, his lack of social skills, when we moved to a new town, he didn't make new friends.  His lies.  About the first wife.  And then about me, and about his family.  And understanding why he lied.  What that was about.  

 

I've been spinning with this stuff in my head, and the old mindfulness isn't working.  It's like I need to go THROUGH this trauma, not calm it down.  And I do feel it will calm down, it just may take a few weeks.  I was with the man for nearly 10 years of my life.  Some of the best years of my life.  And some of the most difficult.  A few weeks of spinning, sorting, and weighing these memories is a small price to pay, especially if I can do so with insight, with hope.

 

But meanwhile, I'm waving for the time being.  I was going to taper the lithium in a week, but if I'm still waving, no way.

[mammaP]

I am sorry to hear all that Jan, it is so sad.  You will get through this and put it behind you, it has 

brought back memories  but you will be able to file them away and move on. It's good that you were

able to help his widow, the poor family are traumatised. The saddest thing of all is that another young one

has been labeled as mentally ill and on meds for life, that is  horrific when the poor lad needs help to cope

with the trauma not drugs. I hope his sister avoids the label but it looks like she will end up with it too. 

[JanCarol]

Yes Mamma, thank you.

 

Actually, I think the daughter may escape.  I think her dropping out of school and "coping mechanisms" might actually relieve her of some of the trauma without going into the system.

 

But the son is in the system, as is the widow.  

 

I told her that I was involved in a "psych med survival support group"  (after all the weird stuff we talked about, that seemed NORMAL.  How's that for weird?) and she confided to me her horrible trip with the "major antidepressant Cymbalta" and she confessed that she was only on "the baby drug, Wellbutrin."  Um.  Well, we know how that story goes.  But I'm not sure how much I can reach out to her.  After our long talk, she may never want to talk to me again.  Just in case, though, I sent her some articles about magnesium and fibromyalgia and depression and anxiety.  (couldn't resist, could I?)

 

Today, I went shopping.  How odd.  Shopping when depressed, not when manic.

 

I had to go out for a fasting blood test - so going out before eating breakfast or having any coffee - means that I will grab something out.  So I grabbed a bulletproof coffee at the Paleo Cafe, and had a great breakfast of bacon, eggs, spinach, sweet potato, and some kind of grain free toast.  From there, I was just going to check to see if Aldi had something I wanted, but got waylaid at the mall looking for MCT oil so I could make my own bulletproof coffee. There, I was waylaid by a slick salesman who convinced me that I just had to have this honey exfoliant, salt scrub, papaya mask, and something else - at a price 3x what I'd normally pay for such a thing - and I bought it.  I also bought some charity tickets for Surf Lifesavers (I usually just walk on past, but this time I engaged with them).

 

After that, and finding what I needed at Aldi, I'd spent nearly $500.  OMFG.  I'm a bit befuddled as to how that happened.  It's like someone pounced on me when I was vulnerable, and I bought it.  Maybe I shouldn't go to "the mall" when I'm feeling this way!  

 

I'm reminded what the Yogi used to tell me about bliss.  He said there are only 2 types of activity:  life supporting, and life draining.  But when you do the life draining ones (like drinking, drugs, promiscuous lifestyle, for example), it feels blissful because you feel the energy moving.  It's not moving in a good way, but it's moving, and you feel it, and you perceive it as blissful.  That's what I think I did.  I drained some money, and it felt better.  

 

Mustn't make a habit of that, though!

 

(on the plus side, I survived a challenging karate class last night, that was life supporting!)

[JanCarol]

I just had a chat to a friend from "back then."  (In fact, she introduced me to my ex-husband, as well as to the other friend who just died).

 

I told her some of the stories that have come out about the pedophile, the family, the lies, and more lies.  And possibly more lies (they keep coming up, part of my Trauma Onion).  After I spelled out a few paragraphs of this stuff (remember, she knows most of the players, including 1st wife) to my friend, I ended with WEIRD, huh?

 

IN FACT, I said, SO WEIRD IT MAKES US LOOK - well - WILD but NORMAL.

 

She said, (and I quote) "Well, now, there's a silver lining!  Who'd a thought we would ever have something to compare us to that would make US look Normal!!!"  and she's right.

 

Laughter and friendship helps.

[JanCarol]

 I'm remember what it felt like to be married to him.  Oppressive.  No way out.  No solutions.  Everything I came up with was not enough.  Nothing was ever enough.  I was so desperate by the end of the marriage that I would have done anything (and the widow said the same) just to see him happy.  To see him interested.  Engaged.  This is more of a "just to talk about it" but I'm here, now.

 

The psychiatrists/psychologists at the Center told us then, "Depression is not contagious."  But that is a lie.  If you live with depression, oppressive, neglectful, hopeless depression, for long enough, you "catch it."  You start to imitate it, you start to act like it.  And if screaming and crying and pleading doesn't work, you settle into learned helplessness.  

 

I'm remembering that feeling now.  This is important.  I have to go through rather than around this, because this is trauma that I didn't "count" before.  I just thought, "bad marriage, we just didn't connect or communicate well."  But it was more than that.  Now that I know about the lies, I see how his suffering became my suffering.

 

I remember my first move away from the suffering.  It ​was because he screamed every night between 2-4 am.  I remember trying to work with him, to get him to tell me about the nightmare, to try and work through it.  But that quickly became as hopeless as everything else.

The first step I took towards myself was that I set up a camp matress in my art / altar room, and set out sleeping bags, and for the first time in 8 years, slept.  I slept there for at least the last year of the marriage.  The cats slept with me there, too, they thought it was great having a sleeping bag on the floor!

 

When I look back at him and how hard he worked, how much coffee he drank (2-3 pots a day - that's 20-30 cups per day!) I can't help but think:  overmethylated, adrenal fatigue, pyroluria man........then ADD TRAUMA.  Trauma of finding his best friend, his gran, dead, and as many 10 year olds do, taking the blame for that upon himself.  Possible trauma of being done by a pedophile.  Trauma of a ditzy unavailable mom.  Trauma of a Dad who took care of everyone else in the town.  Trauma of being spoiled rotton, anything he wanted was his.  (yes, I see that as a trauma).  Trauma of working 80 hours a week and "never being good enough" in performance reviews.  Finally getting stress leave from work and diagnosed with treatment resistant depression and PTSD.  I'll even add the trauma of believing he was abducted by aliens (I think this is a mask for the pedophile, but still, he believed it).  THEN the trauma of this drug and that, this way and that.  Benzos, SSRI's (but not for long because he screamed in the middle of the night), tricyclics, mood stabilizers, and finally, neuroleptics.  The trauma (admittedly he didn't think it was) of his parents deaths (murder suicide).  He was a trauma puppy.

 

I think inside it all there was a sensitive soul, a kind heart, a good man.  But it was oppressive to live with his relentless unhappiness, and I lived with him for 10 years.

 

More later.  I think this is the best place to work this out.  It seems like I'm being dramatic, but I assure you, it's all very real.  And the more openly I look at it, the more easily I can blow it away like dandelion fluff.  I know they say, don't look in the hole, just get out of it.  But - that's how we got here in the first place, isn't it?  Looking for the lift out of the hole without exploring the depression, the valley, the shadows in the darkness to identify and clarify that the harm is gone, the harm is done, the harm is over - and hopefully understand any lessons learned.

[Meimeiquest]

I think you are doing important work and we are honored you would share it with us.

[JanCarol]

Oh God!  I selected a thread here to read.  I don't know why I selected this one, maybe because he was an Aussie, like me. 

 

But it was Acetyl.  Who took his own life.  Echoing what I am struggling with right now.

 

And I know, over the course of the years, my ex husband was assessed, prescribed, reassessed, re-prescribed, cross tapered, remedicated 10x or more, more than Acetyl in is too short life.  And Acetyl was learning the skills to work through depression and anxiety - something which my ex never got.  

 

The synchronicity of my choice is astounding.  RIP dear Acetyl.

[JanCarol]

Notes on self care.  It's important to self care.  I've been slipping.

 

I made the first barley water I've made in months - I've been feeling my kidneys keeping me up at night again, and taking care of the kidneys also has to help my poor adrenals.  (I just read about the OAT - Ovaries/Adrenal/Thyroid - circuit, and I realize I have 2 of the 3 pieces missing.  No wonder I can't get up that hill!

 

I have been faithful to my daily sunshine walks, though this past week, it was all I could do to squint and put one foot in front of the other.  It always helps, though.

 

I've started using my bruxism / TMJ splint.  I've felt my teeth getting ultra sharp - like milk teeth - from my grinding of them.  This means that my teeth are cleaned more frequently, too.

 

Baby steps, all baby steps.  But forward it is.

 

The guy in the post office (who was there when I got the letter saying ex husband was deceased) just had a friend commit suicide.  Maybe I didn't phrase it well when I said, "depending on what medication it was on, antidepressants have been linked to suicide."  They looked at me as if I'd sprouted fur, feathers, and scales all at the same time.  Surely those things that they tell us to get when we need help (antidepressants) would SAVE us from suicides, right?  I didn't have time to state my case.........(my favorite quick statement is the agitation in antidepressants and 100% of the shooters in the USA were either on them, or just came off of them.)

 

Oh well.  We keep trying.  

[JanCarol]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNvWWJ6YAOI   "Wrapped In Grey" by XTC

 

I don't know how to imbed.  :-(  But thinking about the dead-ex, and how grey and sad he was.  And how grey and sad I was.

 

This song meant a lot to me the moment I heard it, it has brought me to moments of hope and desire, much like it did again today.  

 

Just wanted to share.  Sorry the sound is not as perfect as I heard in my car today - but once you've heard it, maybe you will seek out the real thing?

 

"And at the very least you can stand up naked and GRIN!"  

 

JC

[JanCarol]

So, went to acupuncture yesterday.

 

I've been describing to people what getting this news about the exhusband is like:  I call it "like getting a body hit"  I've been getting "sticky" again:  cannot make the transition from sleep to awake or awake to asleep.  My sleep cycle is getting severely delayed again:  3 am to 12 pm or later.

 

So I'm feeling literally drained.  Then I had a bout starting Friday, of diarrhea,  That's still ongoing.  And before that, my kidneys were starting to keep me awake nights.

 

Sunday I made a batch of barley water, just in time I might add.

 

Got to acupuncture, and she said, "you are depleted.  cold."  If I were a gas guage, my level line might be up to my knees.  Nothing is getting to my heart or my head.

 

So she got my systems moving again - she felt hopeful, I wasn't totally depleted, she said, or the needles wouldn't have activated like they did.  (that session actually hurt - so much that I was singing a "The needles are my friends, they help me along, the needles make me better, the needles are my friends" song.

 

So I went to yoga, thinking, that's fine for adrenal fatigue.  But we did lots of up/down stuff.  Up, hands overhead, dive into forward bend, do stuff there with your head down, then up again, hands overhead.  That made my heart pound, but I didn't get dizzy or feel faint.  It was a good workout of lower back, hamstrings, and core.  I enjoyed it, and felt tall and sufficient afterwards.

 

Only today, I couldn't get out of bed.  I couldn't rise until 2 pm!  I still have diarrhea, I'm thinking that karate class is out.  I made my morning walk (at 2 pm!) slowly, slowly, one tired step at a time.  

Here's my conundrum.  With my kidneys complaining, and my system so depleted (is this depression?  Or just exhaustion?)  should I make the next taper?  My kidneys say yes, PLEASE.  My mood, my head, says maybe not......

 

Opinions welcome, please.  I've got about 24-48 hours before "fill time" to make a call for the next 3 weeks.

[Meimeiquest]

I think you are experiencing complex grief complicated by trauma processing, if you need a label. If you could, a serum creatinine level might help in making your decision. I would hold if possible...from how it is going for me, withdrawing from lithium is not something to mess with. And it makes me tired, so I don't know if it would help you feel better. Just my first thoughts about a very difficult situation. Hugs!

[JanCarol]

Thanks MeiMei - I've decided that the strain on my kidneys is just too great, so decreasing to 512.5mg.  No time for a blood test - they take months around here.  Serum creatinine will tell how my kidneys are doing? I figure if I'm symptomatic (which I am) that is too much.  Sometimes kidneys are "just a feeling," sometimes it is clearly "my kidneys are suffering."  This is the latter.

 

I'm a little disappointed in the last round of tests the Doc ordered.  To test the function of my thyroid on the new natural medicine, she ordered a TSH.  Just a TSH.  Then a copper / zinc profile. 

 

Like a TSH is going to tell her if the natural thyroid is doing what it should?  I'm gonna have some questions on this one, and may have to send her to the "Stop the Thyroid Madness" website, or print out a page from it.....

 

I think you're right, this is some complex grief.  But it's also some complex relief.  Like - sure, I've always been a bit depressive, even a bit dramatic and overblown, but the oppression of that marriage is now counting for more weight on my shoulders and choices and more trauma than I believed at the time.  It actually relieves me to realize, that it wasn't all me.  Sure, I was a b**** in that marriage, and I still struggle with the "inner b****" (my Mom's voice, "can't you get ANYthing right?") from time to time.  But that's not the whole of it.  It never is, but we distort.

 

A friend came up with an astute observation:  there's a thing called "perceived harm."  She was referring to a situation where you THINK someone is about to hurt you and you act defensively.  But it can also apply to "I think you hurt me."  (even if you didn't intend to).  The perception of harm can be as damaging as the harm itself.  

In the case of that marriage, there was both.  Actual neglect.  Actual oppression, just the mood of the house (whatever house it was) was oppressive.  Whenever we were both in the same room, it became impossible to be chipper, cheerful, optimistic.  The only escape was escape.

 

Yes, I made a lot of bad choices while young.  I still ponder the trauma of those choices.  I still need to contemplate the traumas inflicted on me by my parents, my brother, the environment in my life, the yogi, the choices I made in college, and afterward.  Whether it was perceived harm, or actual harm - is easier to determine when you have some facts.  In the case of the ex-, I have enough facts to understand much better what was done to me, the first wife, and sadly, oh so sadly, the widow and her 2 children.  And the dog.  The weight borne increases over the life of that man, with the one at the end suffering the most from him and his oppression and his choices.

[JanCarol]

Okay a healing issue.  I've been gut sick for nearly a week now.  

 

One of the reasons I didn't go with the full FODMAPS was this:  hubby.

 

Hubby ate alone for nearly 40 years.  One of the joys of our life is sharing a meal.  Planning a meal.  

 

I probably need to not eat for awhile, but I do LIKE to eat.  I've always feared that if I fasted, it would be detrimental to my mood, as in, set me off.

 

If I do the GAPS diet, that would separate myself from hubby so far that we may as well not even live in the same house.  It's hard enough to see him making bread, cereal and sandwich snacks, smelling toast or fresh baked or toasted bread or naan, when I cannot eat it.  What would it be like while I sip on my broth all day, eating a few poached vegetables from time to time, while he eats lasagna or pizza or even just cheese & vegemite on toast!  The smell of the food makes me want to knock him down and take it from him!  (yet I'm obviously nowhere near starvation, even if I am dehydrated....)

 

Instead, I just feel sick and sad inside, and swallow that trauma of denying myself something I want.  The minefield that is food right now.  Egads.

[JanCarol]

FEELING my food.

 

I made up some chicken broth, with added hearts (I know, should be liver, but I can't bring myself to eat used oil filters.....)

 

If felt GOOD.  It felt healing, it felt right.

 

THEN, a couple of hours later, hubby placed a bowl of lemon sorbet in front of me.  SOUNDS soothing or comforting, but it seemed to undo everything good that the broth did.

 

I'm on the stinkin' broth.  I'm still going to eat food, but less of it.  Hubby tends to give me the same size serve as himself, and that's just too much sometimes.  And right now, it's wayyy too much.  So I'm having 1/3 of a lamb korma for dinner (which is a type of mild broth itself) with a mixed wild grains rice.

 

I think, as tempting as it is, he can keep the lemon sorbet for himself.  

[JanCarol]

Well, I'm not out of the woods yet.  Kidneys so sick.  I drink a teaspoon, I pee a gallon.  Or so it seems.  I can't sleep at night because I keep having to get up every 40-60 minutes, and nothing seems to help. 

 

This is likely iatrogenic, but is not likely to be a withdrawal symptom.  But I don't know?

 

I've started on Curcumin (turmeric) today to see if I can de-inflame the kidneys.  So far, I think it's gonna be another long, not very restful night.  Sigh.

 

To the doc tomorrow to get my allergy test results, thyroid results, etc.

 

I met with a friend today, and realize, it's been almost a month that I got the news about the ex, and I'm feeling much more integrated now.  I can still rage at the pedophile, but the overall result is I feel less "to blame" for some of the trauma I took on myself with that marriage.  So I'm lighter, but also depleted from the process.  And there are many more, smaller, less definable traumas yet to go.

 

I haven't done any "shaking" or holotropic breath work or anything active to "integrate," I've just - stepped back, kind of lived in a bubble, and let the thoughts and feelings come and wash over and through me until I am all that is left.  (paraphrased from "Dune").

[JanCarol]

Oh yeah.  My psychologist met Dr. Rob Purssey.  Because she is a professional, she couldn't say much.  Because I am who I am, I told her the story of Acetyl, and how Dr. Purssey told him that his ongoing symptoms of panic, pain and suffering  "Couldn't be withdrawal," and that all of us on the SA board disagreed with Purssey's statement.  I did not tell her that Dr. Purssey rushed him back to work, which stress (I think) also contributed to his breakdown and eventual death.  She said that confirmed for her some of her "suspicions."  She wouldn't say what they were, only would say the good bits, that he was very humble, and seemed very versed in the literature (though I am unsure which literature this was - did she mean Mad In America?  Or the DSM?), and that his ACT seemed excellent.

 

Reading between the lines, I maybe get that he is a little too focused on ACT as a single solution for everything, and that he might rush "results."  Because "results" are what gets you noticed when you are not "mainstream medical."

 

Not having met the man, only having read about him from Acetyl, and been to the ACT Dr. Purssey webpage, this is all I can offer in the way of information.