MissTrish: Mirtazapine/Remeron Struggle

[chicken]

Update:  after a little experiment last night, I've found that it is in fact the nortryptyline that is causing the extreme agitation in me.  So good to know; am on my way off that little dose.

That's good Trish, I think it would be best to taper the one causing the most problems first.

[MissTrish]

Update:  not doing well.

The anxiety has reached the point where I am paralyzed with it by afternoon.  Nonfunctional, with an increasing headache that feels like a band around my head.  Gets a wee bit better before meds time, but while I can feel the relaxing qualities of the mirtazapine kick in, something else in one of the meds (and I'm almost sure it's the nortryptyline) just seems to set the anxiety off again.  Last night was bad - I was sleepy and horribly anxious all at the same time.  I broke down and took a klonopin just to try to reduce the anxiety enough to be able to lie still.  This was after I took a hydroxyzine which did nothing to take the edge off.  I don't want to keep doing these things but I can't tolerate this awfulness.  It as bad at 5 mgs, too, so going back up on the nortryptyline really doesn't seem to be the answer.  

 

I'm seriously considering taking up mj.  I do not live in a MMJ state, so that won't be too easy.

[Petunia]

Hi MissTrish,

I'm sorry to learn that you are feeling worse, I'm wondering if what you have been taking lately is causing it.  Several people here have had bad reactions to hydroxyzine while in withdrawal,  and taking a benzo irregularly can cause rebound anxiety.  Its best if you can use non-drug methods to manage symptoms, that way you are not doing more harm to your nervous system and it has a better chance of healing.

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

I'm also a little confused about what you have been doing with your Nortryptyline dose. Have you adjusted that lately? What dose are you taking now?

 

I don't know if you have seen our basic guide for tapering and withdrawal which is pinned at the top of the introductions forum, but it contains some good information and advice about how to minimize problems while tapering.

 

The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

 

[MissTrish]

Hello,

I am hoping you can merge this topic with my old one, which was tagged Lexapro.  I've been off Lexapro since September, and when I've posted about my problems w/remeron on that topic (because of the Lexapro tag), I get very little feedback (save Chicken, who has been lovely!), so I'm hoping I hear from more Remeron veterans if I change the topic title.

 

Here's the thing;  yes, I've been tapering much too quickly and I read and I know that this is not a good idea and I agree with that in theory, but the drug itself is causing me all kinds of misery, so it's da**ed if I do and da**ed if I don't.  The drug stimulates my nervous system even as it sedates, so that an hour after I take it, just as I go to bed at night I'm sleepy but feel jolted awake and cannot get to sleep.  Then as the sedation wears off in the early afternoon, I'm left with a drug-induced anxiety (chills, shivers, inability to concentrate, etc) until about an hour or so before it's time to take it again.  That two hour window is pretty nice.

 

Went from 8.something (3/4 of a tablet) a month ago to 1/2 a tablet (7.5) mg.  Because of the anxiety, I tapered down to 3.75 about a week and a half ago.  The anxiety actually did get somewhat better but my sleep got worse.  And I've been taking either an antihistamine or (yes, out of desperation) a klonopin (I've never taken klonopin on a regular basis, btw, and have only taken it of late because of sleep problems) at least half of my nights, because not only can I not sleep, but my anxiety ramps up big time at night.  Melatonin helps if I use it on only an occasional basis; can't seem to tolerate it every night.

 

Two nights ago I cut the 3.75 in half.  I sort of feel like I imagine a concussion patient might feel - nauseous, vertigo, fatigue.  But last night the anxiety & despair was worse than ever.

 

Theoretically I have no issue with re-establishing even at 7.5 mg.  But I'm not sure how to deal with the anxiety the drug itself causes, and I frankly despair of ever getting off of this drug.

 

BTW, I have the sol-tabs, so measuring/tapering should be pretty easy.

 

Thank you in advance for sharing your experience, strength and hope w/me.

 

 

 

 

[MissTrish]

Hello Petunia, I just now saw this.  For some reason I'm not getting notifications of replies.

I started a new topic this morning w/mirtazapine in the subject line because this one is pretty much tagged 'lexapro'.  Wondering if this one can be merged into that one.

I tapered the 2.5 nortryptyline fairly quickly, and the horrible daytime anxiety lessened considerable, although my sleep did not improve.

I totally agree with the taking it slowly, but I get stuck between the drug-induced anxiety, which lessens as the drug lessens, and the w/d itself.

I have tried most of the non-drug alternatives because I am so sensitive to medications (and like you, as I see in your tagline) I can't handle caffeine.  Can't do chocolate, cinnamon, ginger, cumin, black pepper, etc., either.

I do exercise (zumba twice a week; yoga once), and that helps some I'm sure.

I know I have tapered too quickly; I did it on the theory that apparently some people are able to do this and I wanted to see if I was one of them.  And I wanted to get rid of that awful drug-induced anxiety.

Thank you for your reply.

[MissTrish]

Okay - I see the topics are merged; was hoping to merge into one w/the other subject line.  Is it possible to change this subject line?  It's no longer Lexapro; it's mirtazapine.  Thank you.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

MT,

 

I have merged your topics but the way we do it is that all of the extra posts you start are merged into your original topic so everything about your journey is all in one place. However, I (or any mod) can change your topic title at any time so please write the descriptive title you would like, it will start with your 'name' and then can say anything you want.

 

We have no control who posts in which topic, people post for a variety of reasons: support, commiseration (sometimes), to impart knowledge, or just general comments. Mods always try to answer specific questions if they can. You are limited to one topic only in the introductions forum for the reason I stated above.

 

So you want your title to just say: "Miss Trish: mirtazapine"?

 

I will come back and edit this post to add the link to how to make sure your notification settings are set to work correctly.

 

Use this post to set your notifications:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/246-how-to-use-this-site-questions-and-answers/?view=findpost&p=12926

 

Your email address must be the one you had on file when you first signed up to the site or you need to change it to get notifications sent to the right place. There are 2 columns in the notifications settings page, make sure they are both set the way you want them.

 

Unfortunately, there is no way that we are able to modify (or even add) the 'tags' that are associated with a topic as those are set when you first make any post. You can't add a tag to a post in your introductions topic either. So those will still be visible the way they are below your title.

Edited February 10, 2015 by cymbaltawithdrawal5600
added info on tags

[MissTrish]

How about "Miss Trish:  Mirtazapine/Remeron Struggle"?

Thank you so much!!!

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Done!

[MissTrish]

So in the event I am successfully able to reinstate to 7.5 mg tonight, how long should I stay there before dropping 10%?  Even if I continue to struggle with drug-induced anxiety?

[MissTrish]

Update:

Re-established at 7.5 mg mirtazapine two nights ago.

Please bear with me here; I think I have come to some conclusions.  

I guess because I have basically been withdrawing from psych meds for well over a year now, with switching back and forth between different drugs trying to find one that worked delaying the inevitable, my CNS is seriously de-stabilized.  This would explain why I can't tolerate many foods, spices, etc.

I think it was already wonky back 6 years ago when I was on amytryptyline and Prempro, because I was having these symptoms then.  (Also I tapered from Librium in 2005, while still on the amitryp and Prempro-perhaps I never recovered and the ami covered the symptoms).  That misery/depression started me on the search for the perfect drug combo, which led me through a honeymoon period of cymbalta/mirtazapine for 3+ years until my nervous system started crashing again, then to Lexapro, then a couple of unsuccessful tapers from Lexapro and attempts at making Zoloft and/or Wellbutrin work last year.  I had some good spells last year on the lowest dose of Lexapro until September when I was nearly off and the insomnia kicked into high gear.  

So I dropped the last .7 mg lexapro for nortryptyline to help with sleep.  Couldn't tolerate that except in a low dose (12.5), and even then my stomach was very unhappy.  But I was sleeping for the most part.  Then the nervous system symptoms began getting bad again - major shaking and shivering in the afternoon/early evenings. I tapered down pretty quickly from the nortryptyline.  The shaking slacked off to a bearable level and my stomach recovered.  But the insomnia began again.  It seemed to me that the mirtazapine was causing me anxiety, so I began tapering off that pretty quickly.  As you can see from above posts, the insomnia got worse.

So I'm thinking now that maybe everything is related to w/d; it's a vicious cycle.  The drugs have destabilized my nervous system; continuing to take them aggravates my nervous system.  Not taking them leads to severe anxiety and worse insomnia.  

Right now I'm really struggling.

I cannot get to sleep at night, at all, unless I take a hydroxyzine or a klonopin.  There is a price to pay for both of these- the hydroxyzine leads to more nervous system misery next day; klonopin - well, that's a poison trap.  Melatonin doesn't always work and I feel really depressed next day when I take it.

But there is also a price to pay for not sleeping.  I fall into fear very easily.  I have a good friend who just lost a friend who couldn't sleep.  He went so long w/out sleep he was hallucinating.  He saw a psychiatrist and they tried everything and nothing worked.  He finally accidentally od'd on a drug.  

I think my biggest thing right now, besides not sleeping, is that I can't see how this can ever get better, how the cycle can break.

Does what I have written make any sense?  That the drugs have destabilized me, yet I must have them to prevent more de-stabilization?

Do most people here who are tapering go through this?

Thanks for listening - I think I'd be okay if I could just sleep!

[MissTrish]

Knock on wood; almost scared to post.  I have hit a window where I am sleeping with minimal nighttime waking.  I'm almost superstitious about posting this because sometimes pride goes before a fall!  Got 9 hours last night; there have been times when that led to a bad night next night.  But I'm taking a leap of faith here and saying that I seem to be somewhat stabilized on mirtazapine at 6.75 mg.  

 

It's been a bit over a week now since I re-established, and I have not resorted to either clonazepam or hydroxyzine at night.  I did start out with melatonin which I reduced each night (none last night) because with me over time it builds up in my system and I get more depressed and it eventually affects my sleep adversely.

 

So I wanted to post a non-crisis/misery post for a change.

 

Thanks for being there for me.  I'm sure I will need ya'll again, but hopefully not for a while.

[mammaP]

Yayyy, that is brilliant MissTrish, I am so happy for you and hope it continues 

[dalsaan]

That's great MissTrish

 

If it was me, I would be inclined to hold at your current level for a while, like 6-8 weeks.   Give your nervous system a well earned holiday. Then taper very slowly from there.   Its hard to have the patience to do this but long holds are an investment in the future particularly given that that goal is to come of drugs well, not fast.

 

Enjoy your window

 

D

[chicken]

Trish,

I would follow Dalsaan's advice. Go slowly.

 

I'm so glad to hear you are doing better.

[MissTrish]

Thanks, chicken, MammaP and Dalsaan!

 

Dalsaan, how are you doing on 1.3?  I read your signature and I see you are a veteran of the mirtazapine struggle.  What should I expect during a long stabilization period?

 

I had a less easy night; I ended up taking .5 mg melatonin, which did help send me to sleep.  I hurt all over, like I've been battered with a rolling pin.  I have been told I have fibromyalgia and I don't believe it is all drug related, because I had a lot of these nervous system issues pre-drug, including  episodic pain.  But I'm sure the drugs have exacerbated the situation.

[MissTrish]

Checking in.  I've been maintaining fairly well, but the last week has been rough.  I maintained at 6.75 for five weeks.  

 

Then the drug started causing me anxiety again in the afternoons and evenings (and at night) so I tapered down to 6.0.  Did so-so; really grumpy and irritable, but okay for the most part, and still sleeping, with the help of melatonin as needed (1/4 mg, usually).  

 

Mood started dipping a week ago and I became once more sedated in the mornings and anxious in the afternoons/evenings, until right before my next dose when it would level out.  This is how I was with Lexapro when I was coming off of it.  Usually tapering a bit more solves that problem, so on Thursday I tapered down to 5.8 three weeks after my last cut.

 

Sleep was awful last night - after the initial sleepy rush from the mirtazapine, it revved me up once I went to bed.  Melatonin failed me for the first time, although it did help take the edge off the revved up feeling.  I think I did doze for a bit, thankfully.

 

Just feeling really spacy and well, a doctor would call it depressed.  And of course anxious about sleep from here on out.  Doesn't help that we lost a neighbor and close family friend of my grown sons last week to a motorcycle accident.  So we've been dealing with all those feelings as well.

I think I have made responsible cuts.  It's my goal to stick here at 5.8, although if the revved up feeling continues I guess I should reassess this?  

Any thoughts?

[Altostrata]

Doctors call a lot of things "depression."

 

It sounds to me like a hold is a good idea.

 

I wonder if split dosing might help? A smaller amount in the a.m., a larger in the p.m.

 

For example, 0.8mg in the a.m., 5.0mg in the p.m.

[MissTrish]

Hello Alostrata,

I think perhaps going back up to 6.0 or even 6.3 mg at this point might be worth trying.  The sleep is not improving; I will in all honesty say that in desperation I reached for a Klonopin at 3 this morning, for the first time in a couple of months.  If I have trouble stabilizing at 6.3 I will consider splitting the dose.  Just worried I'll be stoned in the mornings.

 

Too bad, too, because I had a perfectly lovely day yesterday, the first in a long time.  Of course that might have been because it was sunny for the first time in a long time!  I just feel that if I could sleep I could get off of this drugs so much easier, but I don't see any way around that.  I've tried in the past and adding more drugs just added to the misery.  I have read all the posts about sleep here.  Melatonin (small doses - .5 mg or less) was helping me a lot but now it just seems to sedate me, and at higher doses amp me up.  I've considered just toughing it out but no sleep at all leads to more depression, and from all I've read about Remeron w/d, the insomnia does not improve.

 

It really does concern me (and frightens me) that I am having such severe sleep problems on this dosage when I have so far to go.  Have others had this as well, and if so, have any of them eventually kicked the Remeron habit?

It helps me if I know I am not alone.

 

I appreciate your input, as always.  I'm so glad ya'll are here!  I wish I could give back a little, in ways other than donations, but I'm not sure what i really have to give.  But as part of my recovery effort I am working on being of service in other areas of my life.  I do work at recovery, very hard, and I do get very discouraged as well.

[Meimeiquest]

Hi Miss Trish,

 

It has always been very obvious that you are working VERY hard at recovery, and I am sure you're going to get there!

 

Have you thought any about hormones and sleep? I read somewhere that progesterone supplementation. Is the safest medication for sleep. I see here people have had mixed experiences with natural progesterone supplementation. I really wanted to avoid even looking into it, but the stress and sex hormones are so intertwined that too much cortisol has to have an effect on them once the ovaries have stopped. Mercola has an article on some of the dosing issues that could cause problems, especially applying it to areas where there is fat tissue beneath. Anyway, it is something I am looking into, will get blood test results next week.

 

I have also become interested in the Wahls Potocol, which is basically hypernutrition to overcome chronic disease and genetic mutations. The differentiating point of her recommendations is the very specific use of vegetables, three cups daily each of leafy greens, colorful fruits/veggies, and vegetables with high sulfur content (broccoli family, onion family, mushrooms). Although I eat a grain and dairy free whole foods diet at least 95% of the time, it still gave me a headache for the first three days so it must have be doing something!

 

You're going to work it through regardless, just trying to think of some drug-free ideas that have a teeny possibility of making it easier.

[MissTrish]

Hi Meimeiquest,

I'm not against progesteron, but I do think back to about 7 years ago when I was taking estradiol and progesteron cream and I would get anxious after the estradiol and depressed at night after the progesteron.  I think all my receptors/nerves are just hypersensitive!.  I can't even tolerate D Vitamins.  Maybe a natural progesteron would be better.

I had not heard of the Walsh Protocol.  Will look into it.

 

I think one of the hardest things for me is I will accept that I'm in for a long struggle, then I'll have good days and think I'm normal, and my expectations go up, and I make plans that when I'm not okay the next day or so I go into high anxiety over.  It's the roller coaster that's so hard to get used to.

 

Thank you for your support and kind words - they mean a lot!

Trish

[MissTrish]

Okay, went up on Thursday to 6.3 mg.  As of Saturday night I have been sleeping a bit better, knock on wood.  Still feel really bummed out.

 

So.  Am I supposed to stay at a level until I feel good and then reduce?  I'm not sure that's going to happen.  I'm not clear on when to know when to reduce.  

 

I hung out at 6.75 for 5 weeks.  I intended to stay there longer and had been feel fairly well.  But shortly after I finished a bout of antibiotics (amoxicillin - I actually felt pretty good while taking them) I started having a lot of anxiety and thought it was the remeron, and that it was time to cut.  I had a bit of a hard time adjusting to that cut. Then 3 weeks later made another cut after feeling a lot of anxiety in the evenings, as posted above.

 

So again, I'm wondering if I just get to learn to stay at a dose for a long time, even with anxiety and bummed out cycles.  But given that, how do I know when it's time to cut again?  I'm really concerned that my body will never learn to adapt to the lower doses without protracted and unrelenting insomnia, and high anxiety.

 

Thanks for listening - just trying to figure out how to do this thing!

[Meimeiquest]

Have you done anything with probiotics? I recently had an anxiety uptick which I attributing to all sorts of thugs. Still not sure what. But I realized I had run out of cultured veggies, I got better when I started a probiotic, but who knows if they are really related. But a damaged gut biome from antibiotics could possibly be affecting you. Also, are you doing magnesium?

[MissTrish]

Funny you should mention probiotics.  It occurred to me this morning that while I was taking the antibiotic I was also eating yogurt to offset stomach issues, which I stopped when I went finished the amoxicillin.  

 

Probiotic supplements constipate me terribly for some reason, as does yogurt.  However, I just happened to think about that and made a special trip to the grocery store and bought some plain yogurt (Oikos - I prefer Fage but it's a long drive for me to the store that carries it).  I'm going to try eating maybe even just a couple of tablespoons of it a day to see if it helps.  Maybe that small amount won't constipate too badly.  

 

What a coincidence!  But they say there are no coincidences, lol.

 

Magnesium I can take on an occasional basis - too often and my hands and feet start tingling.  Weird, I know.  I like to absorb it through a hot soaking bath with Epsom salts but it's getting on toward summer, when hot soaking baths have less appeal.  I've thought about making a magnesium spray - maybe I could do that with dissolving Epsom salts in distilled water.  I could even make a cream - I make soaps and lotions.

[MissTrish]

Well, I jumped back up to 7.5 and I'm well and truly screwed.  Still can't sleep and am super revved up.  So that's clearly not the answer.  However, wouldn't have known it if I hadn't tried it.

 

I honestly have no clue where to go from here.  I have to be able to sleep somehow.  I've read the threads on sleep; none seem to really address the idea of no sleep at all from what I can see.  I do not want to end up in the E.R. and have more A/Ds poked down me.  I can't tolerate them.

[Meimeiquest]

I am so sorry. Could you list out your "regimine" apart from drugs. I.e. Exercise, diet, supplements, sleep-attempt schedule, light-dark therapies, etc. Of course you're not doing what you want while so undone...don't mean it as a test .

[Meimeiquest]

One lady who was here briefly got help by keeping all blinds, curtains open all day (I would think going outside would be even better) and then turning on no artificial lighting as darkness fell. Then, I would add, spend night in darkened room...no LED lights or anything, windows darkened

[MissTrish]

Hi there,

My current routine is that I take my Remeron around 8:30 or 9:00, watch mindless comedies for about an hour (I'm working my way through "Friends"), then go upstairs to bed to read for a bit.  I have a fan on for white noise as I get easily distracted by any noises (dogs going through doggie door, etc.)  What happens is I lay there for a long while and am initially very sleepy from the remeron onset, but that initial rush wears off and I get more and more energized the longer I lay there.  For a while I had been taking 1/2 mg of melatonin and it had been working great, but it no longer does much of anything.  I took it last night and couldn't tell any difference.  After many hours, in desperation I took 1/2 a klonopin which also didn't do much for at least an hour but I finally got a couple of hours sleep, probably because of the klonopin which I know is a bad idea, but I have a craft fair to do on Saturday and I have got to get some rest.

 

I do zumba (the gold version, less intensive for us 50+ ladies) twice a week and yoga once a week.  I go to Al-Anon meetings once or twice a week, because it's fabulous and affordable therapy, and I see a therapist every 3-4 weeks.

 

Aside from salmon oil and Vitamin C, I take no supplements because I can't tolerate them.  Well, on the super-rare occasion that I have to be somewhere and alert and I haven't slept, I do take a B-vitamin, but it's only a regular RDA 100% vitamin and I never do it more than one day in a row.  I can't even tolerate Vit D.  I eat no spicy foods or caffeine, including chocolate, because it revs up my nervous system.  I've taken no antihistamine drugs for weeks now because they don't always work sleep-wise and when they don't I just feel worse.

 

I eat a fairly balanced diet with the occasional dessert.  Well okay, I have one small sweet treat every evening, usually just an organic pudding cup of tapioca I get from Aldi.  I've tried gluten free and could tell no difference, but I do try to keep the carbs low.

[freespirit]

Too bad, too, because I had a perfectly lovely day yesterday, the first in a long time.  Of course that might have been because it was sunny for the first time in a long time!  I just feel that if I could sleep I could get off of this drugs so much easier, but I don't see any way around that.  I've tried in the past and adding more drugs just added to the misery.  I have read all the posts about sleep here.  Melatonin (small doses - .5 mg or less) was helping me a lot but now it just seems to sedate me, and at higher doses amp me up.  I've considered just toughing it out but no sleep at all leads to more depression, and from all I've read about Remeron w/d, the insomnia does not improve.

 

It really does concern me (and frightens me) that I am having such severe sleep problems on this dosage when I have so far to go.  Have others had this as well, and if so, have any of them eventually kicked the Remeron habit?

It helps me if I know I am not alone.

 

 

 

Hi Miss Trish,

 

I was on Remeron for close to 10 years and have managed to get off it completely. I tapered and went off before finding this site, so you'll see that I went faster than recommended. With each decrease I had a few days to a week of poor sleep, then went back to sleeping through the night. Sleeping problems have been worse since stopping, but have gone through periods of a month or so a few times of good, uninterrupted sleep. Still, this is very good for someone who has had sleep problems for decades.

 

I've had to vary my routine day and evening, to cope with the changes in symptoms. All a matter of trial and error I'm afraid. Right now, I'm sleepy all evening, but also restless. I try to either ride my bike or take an easy walk after dinner. I also do qi gong and play video games. It's a paradoxical thing, where activity seems to help relax me and I sleep better.

 

I'd suggest trying out some of the suggestions on the sleep thread...even if the problems seem different than yours. It's good having a number of things in your tool bag. Also, I've found what I do during the day has a large influence on sleep. When I was tapering, I almost always did some meditation or rested or took a nap in the mid afternoon. Taking that break helped my nervous system stay in a calmer state through the day and I slept better. That proved especially important at times where I was more emotional and/or was experiencing more stress in my life.

 

Another thing to consider is the histamine connection. Remeron is an antihistamine, so when tapering, some people experience histamine sensitivity or even intolerance. You don't have to go crazy with the diet, but even trying to reduce or eliminate some of the higher histamine foods might prove helpful in terms of being revved up and having trouble sleeping. There's a histamine intolerance thread that discusses it. For me, it has made a big difference in helping to reduce a lot of the physical symptoms.

 

On my thread, you'll find a link to a short qi gong video and also to some guided imagery, which I've been using for a few years and have found helpful.

 

It can get better...wishing you good rest.

[Meimeiquest]

Okay, assuming your only other option is intolerable drugs, I will throw this out...This website is about bipolar, but I have found a lot of helpful things there. http://psycheducation.org/treatment/bipolar-disorder-light-and-darkness/dark-therapy/

 

Have you ever tried an Epsom salts bath?

 

I read once how dramatically stress depletes magnesium...the things your body does in attempting to calm itself dumps a lot of magnesium in the urine. What was your reaction to it? If I could take only one thing to a desert island, it might be that. You might try alternative dosing, like topical or mg threonate (I've done neither).

 

I love B's, but they are very activating, as is Vit D. Some people are using very high dose vitamin C, like Petunia.

 

I hope someone else has more ideas.

[MissTrish]

Meimeiquest (love your name; I'm gonna be a gramma for the first time this summer and my gramma name is going to be Maymay - similar!), the light therapy thing is very interesting.  I will look into it.  I do find Epsom salt baths helpful - it's the best way for me to get magnesium.  The supplements make my hands/feet tingle after a day or so.

 

Freespirit, thank you for your post!  You do offer hope.  I should walk every day - it's just not something I enjoy but I guess I should do it anyway.  I will look up the qi gong video; I love guided meditations.  I follow a spiritual path that uses a lot of them.

 

I will not stay at 7.5 mg; clearly I am way too sensitized to this medication to do so.  I think it's time for me to taper a bit more rapidly.  I tried very hard to do it 10% every month or so but that's just not working out well.  I feel stuck between feeling better on the lower doses in soooo many ways, even though I cry and have lots of nameless fears and feeling hyped up and numb on the higher dose.  Sleep is no better on either choice, so I think I'll go lower.

 

Re:  the histamine thing - I think the drug itself is making my own histamine issue worse.  The lower I get on it, the less sneezing, runny nose and itching eyes I seem to have.  Weird, I know.

 

One thing:  do you find that going for several days w/out sleep just locks in that pattern?  I never know when to interfere and I get to feeling desperate and start poking down the melatonin or the klonopin.  

 

Also, I am seriously considering ingesting lavender oil, in super small doses, like 1 drop.  I am a soapmaker, so I come across a lot of info on the ingredients I use and I found a good article about a study comparing ingesting lavender oil with ingesting benzos.:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19962288

[freespirit]

It looks like you've made a number of recent changes in the Remeron. I'll let someone with more expertise address that part, but am guessing they will suggest you hold and give your system a change to adjust/settle.

 

If you don't like walking, then maybe something else. I've found it completely useless and unhelpful to force myself to do things I don't enjoy. I do sometimes, have to push myself to first get out the door...but then generally enjoy the walk and being outside. Same with biking and swimming.

 

Regarding sleep...one of the main things that locks in any pattern for me is my resistance to what's happening..and often, if I start casting about to try and fix it, that only ends up making it worse. I think it's impossible or unlikely anyway, to avoid all the difficulties that come with wd. I think at least for me, the desperation itself ramps up my nervous system, making a lot of things worse. There's this fine balance between addressing or working with symptoms, and accepting/allowing what's happening at the moment.

 

The thing about histamine sensitivity is that the sneezing, runny nose is only one possible symptom. You can find a more complete list here: http://thelowhistaminechef.com/histamine-intolerance-symptoms/

I've had a rotating set of symptoms, most of which improved with the diet...I'm attempting to bring some foods back in, so have been seeing some increase again..but nothing like what it was when I first stopped remeron.

 

I'm not familiar with ingesting essential oils. I'm tend to be in favor of trying the least invasive approach to things first..have you experimented with lavender oil in a bath, shower, or putting a few drops on your pillow? For awhile, I couldn't use anything with scent..but now use them in the shower or bath.

 

You mentioned further back about not being able to take magnesium. I can't tolerate those supplements either..never could on that count. I do the epsom salt baths with a bit of lavender oil sometimes, but just don't always enjoy baths. I'm using ancient minerals magnesium lotion each night before bed and sometimes during the day for pain. I know some people use the oil, but I worried I wouldn't tolerate that either...

[MissTrish]

I might make me some magnesium lotion; I could do that pretty easily as I do make lotions and similar items.  I enjoy about a once a week Epsom salts/magnesium soaking bath.

[Meimeiquest]

Are you getting any more sleep?

[MissTrish]

Good morning, Meimeiquest.  I have slept, not deeply but at least through most of the night, for the past four nights.  Friday night not so much - I had a craft fair the next day and was full of nervous energy.  Clearly re-establishing at a higher dose was not the answer for me; my sleep actually got worse when I did that.  Mirtazapine seems increasingly to have an energizing effect on me.  It's double edged:  sedating and energizing.

 

I will try to hold at my current dose as long as I can but eventually I know my body will be increasingly intolerant of the drug.

 

Thank you for checking on me; that means a lot to me.

[freespirit]

I'm glad that you are at least getting some sleep. It's hard to know what is the nervous system and what is the drug itself in terms of sedating and energizing....I experienced both while taking it, and when stopping. I've sometimes felt both at the same time. I hope you feel a bit better back on a lower dose.