Metformin as a psychiatric treatment

[btdt]

I took amitriptyline after prozac did not know at the time I was treating and long term adverse reaction to prozac with it..  as my further understanding of the subject leads me to believe.  It would take more work on my part to figure out how long I was on  it... too lazy.  However it is easy for me to say I had a ton of side effects right off tho one of them Sleeping a lot was needed to end the dreaded long term insomnia I had from the prozac. 

 

I have read imipramine can cause a dependence withdrawal type reaction after only 7 days of use and because a person I know was on it this infor stayed with me.  I would also like to add that the amitriptylines was stopped in my case switched up to zoloft.  

 

I think if your going to try these tricylics to treat withdrawal it is important to know this may well be adding to the problem. I am not advising either way just saying tho the side effect of sleep helped me after prozac it came with it's own bag of tricks. ... look everything up... 

 

I have just been reading a post on pp about Healy and have been looking at the drugs he suggested as treatment for withdrawal. 

http://www.paxilprogress.org/forums/showthread.php?t=43585

posted 2009 

 

http://www.paxilprogress.org/forums/showthread.php?t=61271

2013

 

Drugs suggested in this latest post are Cimetidine, Ranitidine, Metformin and others...

I have looked and cannot find any information he has posted with his name showing this is indeed his advice. 

 

Metformin use in psych issues is suggested at this link... 

https://www.lef.org/protocols/emotional_health/depression_02.htm

and

 

https://www.lef.org/protocols/emotional_health/depression_02.htm

 

no mention of Healy.

 

Now metformin has been suggested to me to treat high sugar I knew it was on the list I already had as being one of the drugs that causes mitochondria disorders decided I was not taking it.  Today when I looked further metformin is suggest to cause this problem only in overdose..

• Metformin overdose causes platelet mitochondrial dysfunction in ...

  www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › NCBI › Literature › PubMed Central (PMC) ‎
•  

by A Protti - ‎2012 - ‎Cited by 3 - ‎Related articles

Oct 3, 2012 - We have recently demonstrated that metformin intoxication causes mitochondrial dysfunction in several porcine tissues, including platelets.

 

 

the pp email posted with supposed Healy advice suggests taking 1/4 normal dose of metformin... 

 

As this is new information i am sure my doc does not know and would have given me the full dose.. good thing I did not try it. 

 

 

The information in the links above may help in the understanding of these issues. That is my hope. 

I am looking for ideas... or discussion and this may be in the wrong place...if you move it please let me know where it went...thanks peace to you.

[Barbarannamated]

FYI. Links to metformin in psych issues not working.

[btdt]

thanks

 will try again I will try breaking the link to see if it will post properly that way you will have to copy and paste if of course 

here it is 

https://www.lef.org/

protocols/emotional_health/depression_02.htm

 

if that does not work then search this

site

 

and this topic title 

"

Depression Other Medical Approaches and Emerging Therapies"

[btdt]

it looks like I posted the same link twice what I meant to post was this link...

 

http://www.currentpsychiatry.com/the-publication/past-issue-single-view/when-not-to-treat-depression-in-pcos-with-antidepressants/b059f6559feadd86fc33826ea97699e7.html

 

site 

title 

EVIDENCE-BASED REVIEWS

    

When not to treat depression in PCOS with antidepressants

[btdt]

The last link I found looking for metformin use to treat psych issues. 

this is a bit interesting

"

 

Elevated cortisol. Clearly, other factors—such as hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis dysfunction—are known to link affective and endocrine disorders. Hypercortisolemia can lead to both insulin resistance and obesity. Cortisol is one of the glucocorticoids the body secretes in response to stress to mobilize energy by increasing blood glucose levels. Early life stress and chronic emotional stress:

• [*]can impair the negative feedback system that limits cortisol production during stress [*]are associated with depression.
  

Approximately one-half of individuals with depression have elevated serum cortisol.10 Epidemiologic data show a positive correlation between cortisol levels and insulin resistance,15 and an association between HPA dysfunction and obesity has been described.16 Insulin can trigger androgen production by enhancing adrenal sensitivity to adrenocorticotrophic hormone (ACTH).17

CASE: IMPROVING INSULIN RESISTANCE

We referred Ms. K to an endocrinologist for PCOS evaluation and treatment. Her serum glucose and insulin levels were 83 mg/dL (normal range 70 to 125 mg/dL) and 19.0 uIU/mL (normal range <10 uIU/mL), respectively. These values indicated insulin resistance as determined by the homeostasis model assessment (HOMA) ratio (fasting insulin x fasting glucose/22.5). Values >3.2 indicate insulin resistance, and Ms. K had a HOMA ratio of 3.9. The endocrinologist recommended:

• [*]metformin, starting at 850 mg/d and gradually increased to 2,550 mg/d [*]spironolactone, 100 mg/d.
  

Metformin, a biguanide approved for treating for type 2 diabetes, inhibits hepatic glucose production and increases peripheral insulin sensitivity, but it does not modify pancreatic insulin secretion. It may decrease insulin resistance by reducing gut absorption of glucose, improving glucose uptake by tissues, and/or increasing the number of insulin receptors.18 In treating PCOS, metformin can:

• [*]restore ovulation

19 [*]decrease insulin resistance, acne, hirsutism, total and bioavailable testosterone, BMI, and waist-hip ratio.20,21

Although the link between insulin resistance and depression is unclear, insulin is known to contribute to 5-HT synthesis by promoting tryptophan influx into the brain.22 Therefore, drugs used to treat insulin resistance—such as metformin and alpha lipoic acid23—might be useful in treating depression.

Spironolactone, a mineralocorticoid receptor (MR) antagonist, reduces hirsutism in women with PCOS.24 It also can decrease insulin resistance and fasting insulin levels in PCOS patients and reduce serum testosterone.25

Evidence on treating mood disorders with hormonal agents such as spironolactone is scarce, although treatment-resistant depression has been reported to resolve with antiglucocorticoid use (Box 2).25-31Modulating HPA axis activity to treat affective disorders has been investigated."

 

 

I have not given it the attention it deserves yet found it in the middle of a sleepless night.  Yes I have done this plenty of times before sound things while sleep deprived which I think may be a good clue only to get some rest and wonder what I was thinking... still not rested so will go see to that and leave this for clearer heads... than mine today... 

 

I am one day short of being off exactly 7 years... maybe this will be a 7th year anniversary gift to me.. no I have not given up hope but the longer it goes on the more I think maybe I am a rare one and that time alone is not going to be enough for me. So the years of searching continue I will never give up as long as I can hunt I will. 

[Altostrata]

Psychiatrists will consider throwing any drug they can find at what they think is a psychiatric disorder.

 

There's a lot of discussion about prescribing metformin with antipsychotics to counter the diabetes-promoting effect of antipsychotics.

 

It makes no sense to me for psychiatrists to screw around with the endocrine system. They don't know a thing about it. It's hard enough for endocrinologists to treat.

[Meimeiquest]

I listened to Dr. Brogan's seminar today. Blood sugar control is essential to controlling inflammation, which sets off all kinds of brain/psych problems, according to her. Metformin may be a way to get partway there...she didn't mention it. But it would be far inferior to really dealing with the issue.

[btdt]

Since the focus just now seems to be on metformin I am going to paste what was said on pp to be sent in an email to this poster from Dr. Healy. 

 

"5. Re-sensitizing receptors

Another option is to look at metformin. Metformin is used in type II diabetes where it doesn’t act to lower blood sugars directly but rather it sensitises responses to insulin – so that insulin works better. In recent years it’s also been used in PCOS (polycystic ovary syndrome) where again its function appears to sensitise receptors so that oestrogens work normally. This suggests that Metformin re-sensitizes receptor function.

SSRI treatment produces serotonylation – a reconfiguration of receptors – at some receptor sites. This may be responsible for some of the features of dependence and withdrawal.

Metformin use needs to be undertaken carefully both because people in SSRI withdrawal appear very sensitive to many other drugs and also because in the early phases of its use Metformin can give rise to hyperactive bowel movements – potentially aggravating some of the main features of SSRI withdrawal. Rather than starting at one 500 mg pill per day as per standard – the best way to start is on a quarter pill per day and wait until everything stabilises before going further." 

 

I would like to say if anyone finds this information any place where Healy has made this his official stance I would like a link to for my doctor as I am sure she would not take my word for it.  Getting an understanding between her and I about the drugs I react to when to her it makes no sense.  If this one bit of a sentence said by a person who has some knowledge or stance in the world that she would respect " people in SSRI withdrawal appear very sensitive to many other drugs"  could go a long way in building a workable relationship with her... I am sure that right this minute I have tried and quit at least two drug which she thinks I am still using... a third I had changed by another doctor as I had an extreme need of it. Am I being lazy and shabby in how I am caring for myself maybe but since a car accident and surgery within the last year... I am just trying to keep myself afloat on top of drug reactions and dealing best I can with things the drugs I can't take were suppose to treat.  As I felt I cannot push the subject with my gp just now as post accident things were getting ugly between us...  I needed a break from the stress of it all. 

 

So if anyone finds this sentence in any official place I can print and take to her... I would sincerely appreciate it. 

On second thought in order to prepare myself for another letdown she may well say it has been 7 years since you took those drugs surely they are not still affecting you... so add to my wish list that the statement by any authority she may believe also say that the withdrawal receptor changes can last 7 years... or maybe longer... if not addressed. If you know such a statement please send me a link. 

 

That is my list for today. 
 

[btdt]

Perhaps antidepressants are changing the receptor action and causing diabetes? 

 

I am not pulling this out of thin air. 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2430700/How-antidepressants-raise-risk-diabetes--just-cause-weight-gain.html

 

thing is they know people on Ads have a higher incidence  of diabetes they don't yet know why... so this article says. 

 

"

Happy pills are linked to a higher risk of diabetes: Antidepressants can cause weight gain, leading to condition

• Researchers say the risk is for all antidepressants, not just some types
• The pills could put hundreds of thousands at risk of type 2 diabetes
• The increased risk could be because people on antidepressants are more likely to be overweight and this is a risk factor for diabetes
• Scientists think the pills may also be an independent risk factor

By SOPHIE BORLAND HEALTH REPORTER

PUBLISHED: 19:00 GMT, 24 September 2013 | UPDATED: 00:10 GMT, 25 September 2013

606 shares

125

View 
comments

Antidepressants taken by hundreds of thousands of people may increase the chances of developing diabetes, researchers warn

Antidepressants taken by hundreds of thousands of people may increase the chances of developing diabetes, researchers warn.

A major study involving more than a million patients has shown that those taking all antidepressant pills are at far higher risk from the condition.

Academics from Southampton University think this may be because antidepressants cause weight gain which in turn leads to type 2 diabetes.

But despite the strong link, they cannot be sure that the pills are definitely causing the condition.

Patients on antidepressants are more likely to be overweight so have a higher risk of developing diabetes in the first place than healthy individuals.

The numbers of Britons taking antidepressants has soared in the last decade and more than 50 million prescriptions were handed out by GPs last year compared to just 20 million in 1999.

But experts say doctors are handing out the pills too freely without considering the possible long-term side effects.

In one of the largest studies of its kind, academics from Southampton University looked at 25 research papers that involved just over a million patients.

The study, published in the journal Diabetes Care, found many patients were developing type 2 diabetes - the commonest form - after they had been prescribed antidepressants, which suggests the pills cause the illness."

[btdt]

another quote from the pp post 

 

"The Physiological Basis for SSRI Dependence

Many people after stopping SSRIs complain that later exposure to other drugs from anaesthetics to antibiotics can trigger a “relapse”. Far from being anomalous, these reports likely link to a feature that is closely linked to dependence and withdrawal.

Ketamine has recently been reported as producing dramatic benefits in people with severe depressive disorders otherwise responsive to ECT. There are usually no complications from giving ketamine to patients with depression or other conditions.

But when given to anyone with SSRI withdrawal problems, there is a very different response. Patients have very bowel problems including vomiting, as well as complaints of temperature dysregulation and pain sensitivity. 

There is a striking uniformity to these responses which suggests these subjects are in a physiologically different state to other people – that they are sensitised in some way. The subjects in question appeared to have an intensified and dramatic withdrawal process that recapitulated many of the features of previous SSRI withdrawal.

This seems a striking demonstration that there is enduring dysregulation of some sort triggered by the use of these drugs but also suggests there is likely something that can be done to relieve the problem."

 

This is me... sadly. 

 

I am going to look thru his list of drugs and maybe try one picking which of my symptoms I would like to attempt to address the sugar the bp... ect.. maybe I will if I can get my doctor to believe any of this.. and actually support me by giving the exact type of drug he is suggesting in a lower dose... than normal.  I have flown long enough without help and have had no luck getting physicians to believe any of this ...so much so I rarely even mention antidepressants as a cause of any of it as it starts us off on the wrong foot right away... I have to swallow it if I want any care at all... I need to drop the subject... and take what I can get.  As far as taking meds I am notorious for complaining about drug reactions.. this has not endeared me to the doc either... and I get that with a previous psych dx it is easy to look at me when I am constantly complaining and reacting and write it all off as a psych issue... 

 

I get all this I live it... I hate that he may be waving this carrot... that I cannot eat... as it did not come in official edible form. I can't feed it to my doctor as it is.  

 

[btdt]

I listened to Dr. Brogan's seminar today. Blood sugar control is essential to controlling inflammation, which sets off all kinds of brain/psych problems, according to her. Metformin may be a way to get partway there...she didn't mention it. But it would be far inferior to really dealing with the issue.

There has been talk of inflamation flaring when Ads are stopped being what causes the body pain of withdrawal.  

a quick search got me this but it is a common topic over the years

• A comparative examination of the anti-inflammatory effects of SSRI ...

  www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22251606‎

  by RJ Tynan - ‎2012 - ‎Cited by 26 - ‎Related articles

  Jan 11, 2012 - However, contemporary investigations have revealed that depression is linked with inflammation, and that SSRI/SNRIs possess significant ...
• Prozac and Celexa exhibit anti-inflammatory effects - Science Daily

  www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100225082441.htm‎

  •  

   

  Feb 25, 2010 - A new study found that fluoxetine (Prozac) and citalopram (Celexa) ... Link Between Depression and Inflammatory Response Found in Mice:  ...

[btdt]

Psychiatrists will consider throwing any drug they can find at what they think is a psychiatric disorder.

 

There's a lot of discussion about prescribing metformin with antipsychotics to counter the diabetes-promoting effect of antipsychotics.

 

It makes no sense to me for psychiatrists to screw around with the endocrine system. They don't know a thing about it. It's hard enough for endocrinologists to treat.

I seen a endocrinologists... she says take more vit D3 even tho it causes extreme anxiety and insomnia... another doctor bites the dust... 

[Finn]

It may decrease insulin resistance by reducing gut absorption of glucose, improving glucose uptake by tissues, and/or increasing the number of insulin receptors.

 

 

This is why I take Metformin, for insulin resistance. I never thought about it in regards to my mental concerns, but I will say that omega-3s and vitamin e seem to help insulin resistance as well. Before I was treated for pcos, I would get mood swings from fluctuation in blood sugar and/ or hormones. In fact, and this says something about how teenage girls with health concerns are viewed, my doctor referred me to a mental health prof before an endocrinologist, so I almost didn't get the pcos diagnosis. But after I did, so much made sense.

[alexjuice]

Psychiatrists will consider throwing any drug they can find at what they think is a psychiatric disorder.

 

There's a lot of discussion about prescribing metformin with antipsychotics to counter the diabetes-promoting effect of antipsychotics.

 

It makes no sense to me for psychiatrists to screw around with the endocrine system. They don't know a thing about it. It's hard enough for endocrinologists to treat.

This is lunacy.

[Meimeiquest]

Dr. Brogan's point is that inflammation causes depression. I know for I me, I always feel better on a low-carb diet.

[btdt]

 

It may decrease insulin resistance by reducing gut absorption of glucose, improving glucose uptake by tissues, and/or increasing the number of insulin receptors.

 

 

This is why I take Metformin, for insulin resistance. I never thought about it in regards to my mental concerns, but I will say that omega-3s and vitamin e seem to help insulin resistance as well. Before I was treated for pcos, I would get mood swings from fluctuation in blood sugar and/ or hormones. In fact, and this says something about how teenage girls with health concerns are viewed, my doctor referred me to a mental health prof before an endocrinologist, so I almost didn't get the pcos diagnosis. But after I did, so much made sense.

 

The endo doc I seen only looked at why my Vit D was low .. after a month of trying to take V3 and failure on my part due to the anxiety and insomnia she said double the amount and that was her final word on the subject... of course I didn't. It was later the metformin was suggested for sugar... the hormone fluctuations were in 200 5-6 2007 my period stopped completely never to return... 

I am quite curious of your timeline and what came first... Ads... pcos dx... insulin resistance... ( is there a test for that?) I take Vit E for my fibrosis of the liver... 

 

what type of doc dx your pcos...in what order and timeline.  I am curious what you think now were you drugged for depression... as I was not my reason for Ads to start with was nerve pain after a car accident... all this came after...

 

do you think the pcos hormones was the cause of the depression ...or were the drugs the cause of insulin resistance and other problems ...

 

the old chicken or the egg question...

what is your take on it all now?

[btdt]

 

It may decrease insulin resistance by reducing gut absorption of glucose, improving glucose uptake by tissues, and/or increasing the number of insulin receptors.

 

 

This is why I take Metformin, for insulin resistance. I never thought about it in regards to my mental concerns, but I will say that omega-3s and vitamin e seem to help insulin resistance as well. Before I was treated for pcos, I would get mood swings from fluctuation in blood sugar and/ or hormones. In fact, and this says something about how teenage girls with health concerns are viewed, my doctor referred me to a mental health prof before an endocrinologist, so I almost didn't get the pcos diagnosis. But after I did, so much made sense.

 

There was a point during early withdrawal I was still on pp whenever I ate I would go to sleep it did not matter what I ate all foods put me out it. was more like a coma... 

I can only do low carb so long.. did the fatty liver diet by dr Sandra Cabot but couldn't maintain it long term. It was low carb no sugar no flour no no no... xmass bdays no life really not social eating. 

 

How do you find using the metformin where were you in your E use or withdrawal when you started it and what were the symptoms that lead them to think you had insulin resistance?   Sorry for all the questions one more please.....  For you personally what are the effects good or bad of metformin?  

[btdt]

other drug suggested by Healy
http://www.paxilprogress.org/forums/showthread.php?t=61271
 
warning this is where this thread is going from here.  
 
I am doing this as my own personal how to fix myself project to see if there is a drug that may be helpful to me based on symptoms that relate to each other... based on what I am learning from this information here,  it is not any sort of advice to anyone else who is withdrawing.  I am using this site as a place to process my thoughts and findings.  If I do try medication it will be well thought thru... and maybe impossible to get the drug should I find one that would work as I doubt I can convince anyone but just in case I can.. I am going this ... it may well be yet another wild goose chase I have had many over the years.. or it may add one more small piece to this puzzle won't know till I do it. If I do try any drug I will post he result here.  The withdrawal problem for me has been a moving target and needs to be evaluated from time to time we will all be different.  I am trying to take some of my power back at least to extent that I am in control of what drug will go into my body this is my personal approach.  Choices I make I will benefit from or pay the price for it is the same for each of us. Staying informed and seeking advice when there is not much really known for sure is a job I take seriously tho I know I am often limited in my understanding. It is still my job.
Some things like tapering I am skipping as that ship sailed long ago for me. 
 
 
#1.  the potency of the problem drug that is the problem and a first step might be to switch to a less potent drug from the same class
 
         serotonin reuptake inhibiting antihistamine like chlorphenamine
 
#2.   the hunch that the dependence and withdrawal problems stem from another action that the drug has rather than its primary action
 
 
         For instance the antipsychotics that have the worst withdrawal profile also block calcium channels and accordingly a calcium channel blocker may offer relief.
 
 
I think #2 may be an issue and I would be looking at long term use and protracted withdrawal so changes made by the drugs I have taken that have cause long term changes in my body ... adaptations actually. 
 
Some people get phobic about withdrawal particularly if the experience is literally shocking
I may well be phobic to taking new drugs however I feel I am fairly well grounded in knowing when I am having a drug reaction serious enough to stop taking a drug.  Generally I don't have to think too hard about it as the reactions are serious however joining the effect on me with what is known about the drug has at time proved to be impossible given the information I can find online.  One is a lidocaine reaction years after the drug was stopped... effects were neurological and gradually diminished over 3-4 months.  Testing (at least a year after the fact) to see if this was an allergy to the drug granted me this explanation I had coincidentally had a TIA seconds after the lidocaine was injected by the dentist.  Due to previous issues there was no epinephrine in the injection.  I have not had dental work since nothing that required freezing. 
 
I am adding this just in case somebody else in years to come has this sort of issue you never know.  Seeing how I could not walk a straight line was leaning to one side and could not read properly after this reaction I would say yes I am phobic of this drug at least and somewhat phobic of all drugs.  I don't really see this as a disorder more common sense fire it hot it burns... if I did not have the ability to learn from experience that would be a bigger issue. However this needs to be considered with at the time of any reaction.. just in case some are small and don't need a lot of thought.  Some are not. 
 
withdrawal problems appear to ease off and then come back, it is worth checking whether this is because you have co-incidentally been treating yourself with something related to what you were on. For instance St John’s Wort or an antihistamine may inhibit serotonin reuptake.
 
I am taking low doses of Tylenol #3 I think it raises serotonin... I have this in my head but recent searches to prove it do not pan out so think I got the info in a convoluted way I can no longer explain from reading related information I have likely posted over the years .. I did find it again once recently not sure if my understanding is proper or right it is what I think at present.  I tend to get foggy thinking if I take them and try to use them in a very limited way.  Often going without them for days at time to clear my body and give my liver down time.  Trying to manage the situation best I can and hoping physio therapy and all the other things I do for pain control eventually takes the T#3 off the table or puts it back to very rare use.
 
I completely agree with this statement:
In the case of enduring problems, being active is important. An enduring problem is likely to be underpinned by some physical changes in the brain and elsewhere in the body. Gentle but regular exercise and involvement in social activities rather than withdrawal may compensate for this.
however due to recent as in a year- injury am limited in the physical component due to increasing pain with activity it is improving very slowly being physical has been a God send to keeping other things under control having it taken away has set me back no question... social.. have not been and do struggle with this do very little and do not need any more failures on my list just now and I feel some thing would be certain social failure .. eg... anything that has a physical component like going on a long shopping trip or to the zoo for example.  Will improve in time.. it is improving but it is also slow. 
 
 enduring problems after withdrawal
 
 temperature dysregulation. This might arise for two reasons –because of actual temperature dysregulation or because of hyper-vigilance
My body temp since quitting E has consistently been low.  It has come up from 95-97 degree F in early withdrawal to a mostly stable 97 I have not had a reading of 95 in years.  I use to have extreme fluctuations of blood pressure and severe dizziness... 
 
awareness of bodily functions like this is tied very closely to the Locus Coeruleus nucleus. This brainstem nucleus is also hyperactive in opiate withdrawal and is managed very successfully in opiate withdrawal with clonidine or lofexidine. 
 
clonidine is not a benzo and I have long thought it was can cause constipation which I do not need more of... can help with insomnia or cause insomnia .. 
"inhibiting the release of norepinephrine (NE). The net effect is a decrease in sympathetic tone" I have some parts that are contracted.. but I don't think I really want to mess with my brain.. just yet.. I have a couple of blood pressure issue.. relating to blood pressure tho if I were to compare to early withdrawal I am cured tho I cannot do a burst of any exercise due to the feeling of fainting. I can however get up from a chair now without getting dizzy.  Will think more on this drug tho I doubt it. 
 
"A related option is clonidine in a dose of 0.025mg (25 mcg) BD. The side effects of both are a drop blood pressure with dizziness, a slow heart rate and a dry mouth."  
 
I don't think this is my main issue and would stay away from this drug it has to be tapered and the side effects in the above sentence are all things I have done I don't want to do again.  It is used to lower pressure in the liver for cirrhosis I have stage two fibrosis not cirrhosis yet.. not sure about this part. 
 
Stabilizing the Histamine System - 1
 
 The SSRIs are a group of antihistamine drugs that also inhibit serotonin reuptake. Despite marketing propaganda, they are not selective or clean drugs.
Nice to see somebody say it.
 
 
 switch to a tricyclic antidepressant such as dosulepin which is also an antihistamine with less potent serotonin reuptake inhibiting properties. tried tricylics helped me sleep and got me a new drug..zoloft not interested as for me lead to further ssri use... but I could sleep had insomnia due to a prozac reaction
...a serotonin reuptake inhibiting antihistamine such as chlorphenamine or diphenhydramine
A related antihistamine option might be having switched to one or the other of the above drugs, in due course to switch to an antihistamine that does not inhibit serotonin reuptake such as loratadine or cetirizine why would a person have to do this it does not make sense to me...?? Guess those drug do more than affect serotonin and it sets you up for a different withdrawal from the "other" drug actions they have.
 
just making a note of this
 
A further look:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorphenamine
 histamine H1 receptor antagonist, chlorphenamine has been shown to work as aserotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor or SNRI.^%5B2%5D A similar antihistamine, brompheniramine, led to the discovery of the SSRI zimelidine. Limited clinical evidence shows that it is comparable to several antidepressant medications in its ability to inhibit the reuptake of serotonin and also norepinephrine
 
 However, extensive clinical trials of its psychiatric properties in humans have not been conducted. It inhibits serotonin reuptake less than norepinephrine reuptake,^%5B4%5D however the literature is not consistent in this respect.^%5B5%5D
A study performed on Fischer 344/Brown Norway F1 hybrid rats showed that intraventricular administration of Chlorphenamine reduced fear-related behaviors and improved maze performance. It was also noted that long term administration of Chlorphenamine reduced age-related deficits in motor function
Chlorphenamine is often combined with phenylpropanolamine to form an allergy medication with bothantihistamine and decongestant properties. Brand names include Demazin, Allerest 12 Hour, CodralNighttime, Chlornade, Contac 12 Hour, Exchange Select Allergy Multi-Symptom, A. R. M. Allergy Relief, Ordrine, Ornade Spansules, Teldrin, Triaminic, and Tylenol Cold/Allergy.
Makes me wonder if people having reactions to these drug end up on ssri drugs.  A couple of these you cannot buy in Canada any longer Ornade for one I know is gone and I was told to take it for incontinence had to stop as they took it off the market. 
I used Actified too it is off the market .... here. 
 
Now that I think about it I broke my jaw in 1985 damaged from an accident which caused chronic sinus issues and I was on various forms of antihistamines for a 2-3 years... including sudafed... elator  20 0r 120 something like that... I know a lot of people who use tylenol sinus to sleep...for crying out loud they are all so innocent.  I was too. Beware of cold meds they can hurt you in withdrawal... and maybe get you to start taking psych drugs to start with who knows....
The adverse effects include drowsiness, dizziness, confusion, constipation, anxiety, nausea, blurred vision, restlessness, decreased coordination, dry mouth, shallow breathing, hallucinations, irritability, problems with memory or concentration, tinnitus and trouble urinating.
 
That is enough for now more later.. still no shining star of I should try this med to help me now.
 
 
 
 

[Finn]

How do you find using the metformin where were you in your E use or withdrawal when you started it and what were the symptoms that lead them to think you had insulin resistance?   Sorry for all the questions one more please.....  For you personally what are the effects good or bad of metformin?

 

 

I started Metformin three and a half years before Effexor. There's a potential that Effexor and Metformin are interacting within me, but I don't know any specifics. Metformin (or the condition it is treating) could be part of the reason I have had so much difficulty with Effexor.

 

I gained weight and couldn't lose it--that is how insulin resistance manifests. Also, I have reactive hypoglycemia. My blood sugar gets high after I eat, then crashes.

 

I think Metformin has lowered by androgen levels, which allows for normal menstruation. Since being on it, I have had normal periods (except for a few months), which wasn't happening before I got treatment for pcos. It also has reduced the severity of the highs in my blood sugar.

[btdt]

 

How do you find using the metformin where were you in your E use or withdrawal when you started it and what were the symptoms that lead them to think you had insulin resistance?   Sorry for all the questions one more please.....  For you personally what are the effects good or bad of metformin?

 

 

I started Metformin three and a half years before Effexor. There's a potential that Effexor and Metformin are interacting within me, but I don't know any specifics. Metformin (or the condition it is treating) could be part of the reason I have had so much difficulty with Effexor.

 

I gained weight and couldn't lose it--that is how insulin resistance manifests. Also, I have reactive hypoglycemia. My blood sugar gets high after I eat, then crashes.

 

I think Metformin has lowered by androgen levels, which allows for normal menstruation. Since being on it, I have had normal periods (except for a few months), which wasn't happening before I got treatment for pcos. It also has reduced the severity of the highs in my blood sugar.

 

Sorry I did not answer this... I have not been looking at metformin as my sugar is just barely ok

I find this very interesting

" Metformin has lowered by androgen levels, which allows for normal menstruation"

I wonder what my androgen levels are not that it matters I have hit the dreaded menopause. 

 

I seen a new drug advertised today supposedly works on sugar by causing the kidney to dump sugar.. 

I wish I had more thinking power just now as I feel I am missing something very big...

hope I don't lose this thread again. will try to get back to it when I can think better.

thank you for the information and peace to you.

[Lexy]

CAn chlorphenamine help with effexor withdrawals.  Is it safe to use while still on Effexor?  I've read Dr Healy's recommends this for withdrawals however not sure if one can take it wile still taking effexor.  Also is benadryl safe to take?  Can this be interacting with the effexor and producing the depression symptoms? My doctor knows about the benadryl but didn't comment on it. Thank you for any information.

[btdt]

CAn chlorphenamine help with effexor withdrawals.  Is it safe to use while still on Effexor?  I've read Dr Healy's recommends this for withdrawals however not sure if one can take it wile still taking effexor.  Also is benadryl safe to take?  Can this be interacting with the effexor and producing the depression symptoms? My doctor knows about the benadryl but didn't comment on it. Thank you for any information.

All I can say is my experience... I had an experience of helping a older neighbor and getting bit on the back of my calf while making a garden for him... I don't know what bit me but there was a huge bit and my leg swelled I don't recall what other symptoms I had I other than my throat wanting to close... that took my to the hosp where they injected me with an antihistamine ... I was taking 40 mg of celexa and 150 mg of effexor xr at the time... so I guess it is safe to take an antidhistamine or they thought it was back in say 2004... as they gave it to me in hosp... however I could not breath and that could have been a big deal.  Is it worth fooling around with this combination in a non life threatening situation... I would say "no" off the cuff and this is why... 

After I had quit cold turkey there were long long stretches where I did not sleep I would literally go days with 20 min naps here and there... at some particular points I was getting very close to the psychotic stage I would take a small bit of benadryl... about 1/8 of a pill to sleep because it was getting to the point of it was that or the hosp... I have complete terror of being locked in a psych ward... it is complete and all encompassing... so pill it was.  I would find this whatever bit of headway I had made in the other withdrawal symptoms be it less anxiety I could eat! I could think.. whatever I had gained most recently I would lose by taking that small bit of pills. 

There are many reason this could have been... I was completely obviously SUPER HYPERSENSITIVE  to drugs because  in part likely to a long tolerance and cold turkey and other drugs the neurologist put me on to get me off Effexor ... another snri and a few parkinson drugs... I was not well before I went to him I was not any better after trying all his drugs. 

The other reason when it comes right down to it an antihistamine was initially the base drug for the very first antidepressant... so why not take an antidepressant and take a drug like an antidepressant... this could be part of it for sure...next people are actually addicted to antihistamines ... I know sounds unlikely yet it is true. 

 

Those are the most basic things I can think of to say about these two drugs the other thing I want to say is I did use gravol ( lDimenhydrinate) which is basically a different type of the same beast more for dizziness to get home when I was too dizzy to see... It come in child form I would take a quarter as I was sensitive to all meds... even kid doses.  So a kids size was 15 mg I would take about 3mg.

 

 http://www.webmd.com/interaction-checker/

I checked Chlorphenamine and effexor and it did not show an interaction ... the dimehydrinate did not show in this checker ..

but I don't trust those these checker completely

 

My question to you is why would you want to use it... what are you trying to accomplish?  

if you taper is slow enough symptoms are less... no?  so much so that other meds are not needed is what is hoped I did not taper so don't know. 

What I can tell you is I suspect there is a feedback once you take an antihistamine it ramps something up and sets you back ... there are times it is worth it.  Other times there is not choice really but to take something but to do so a lot to me would say maybe you need to go back up in dose if your tapering and wait... as too strong symptoms means your going too fast and need to back track or slow down. 

After I took a tiny 1/8th of a pill I would have a set back for a wk... lose ground I felt I had won but I felt I had to do at the time... I used very little benadryl maybe one or two entire tablets hard to say as so much time would pass between use I would throw that pill out as it got dirty or something and get a new one.. take one 1/8th of the new one. 

Gravol the childrens one was another story it saved my ass a lot of times if I were out and too dizzy to walk I would take 1/4 of a gravol to get me home. I had it on me at all times and it is cheap as dirt $5 will get you a pack of 9 or so chewable use any time tablets I should buy stock in this company... with my luck it will be a company I hate... so I won't look ... and I have no money anyway.  

Hope that was not too much... but I try to be truthful and thorough... in all I know about something... and I am not a doctor this is my experience and what I have found along the way I hope it helps.

peace

[btdt]

I think I need to read my own threads more as this is interesting.