daspin: Some advice please

[daspin]

Another day yesterday filled with depersonalization, mood swings, anxiety, fatigue, vision problems and now for a limited time only, we are featuring insomnia. Lol. Yay me. Didn't sleep a wink last night.

 

Wonder if it's more related to the withdrawal or the 3000mg of fish oil, 1000mg of E, and magnesium I took a few hours before bed.

 

I'll avoid doing that tonight just in case. Lol

[tezza]

Waves of withdrawal symptoms are common. If it gets worse overall, you may wish to reinstate a very small amount. The longer you wait, the less likely reinstatement is likely to reduce withdrawal symptoms.

There is still a chance of a very small dose bringing relief but the longer you wait the chances get smaller. Of course, it's your choice but many people suffer for a long time from cold turkey, I'd hate for that to happen to you or anyone. It's called, "Prolonged withdrawal syndrome".

[daspin]

I'm struggling with that thought of putting that poison back into my body. It's day 10 today. I can't help think I really didn't take it that long so it shouldn't take so long to rebalance. MAybe I'm naive. It's rough no doubt but what if there's only a few days left? And I put I back into system. That scares me. I really am shooting blind here binding know what best. Heck. I don't Ben know what's WD and what's possibly the initial problem anymore. All unknowns I want off so I can then tackle the klonopin.

[tezza]

I understand your being hesitant to reinstate and, ultimately it's your decision but feel I must warn you what about the possibility of a long, hard road.

 

One of our Admins came off Lexapro too fast, as ordered by a doc, her name is Jemima. It's been quite some time and she still hasn't FULLY recovered.

[daspin]

Well that's pretty concerning. Does it matter how long one took it, and how much? 10MG lexapro for 4 weeks, and then 50MG of pristiq for only one week. Maybe I am completely underestimating the power of these drugs.

 

Ok. So before I go an make any decision either way. I need some facts if you have them.

 

1. You told me about Jemima. Maybe she was on long term at high dose? And how long has she been off? Are there others that did successfully come off cold turkey?

2. Does length of time on and dose not effect it?

3. Regardless of how long it takes, I will indeed recover, right? The body will heal eventually?

4. Give it to me straight. If it was you, given the short term I took it and the dose, and you could "tough" out the symptoms after having already been off 10 days, would you stay the course, or reinstate? And if you did reinstate, at what dose, and how long before you would see improvement in symptoms.

 

Sorry for the questions, but I HONESTLY have NO IDEA what I'm doing here, and Doctors are of very little guidance. Heck, my doctor had me com off Klonopin Cold Turkey which put me in the ER, so that about sums up my faith in the doctors right now.

[tezza]

1) I don't think she was on it but a few months, not sure exactly. I'm sure there have been some people who CTd and had absolutely no symptoms at all. They just don't search the internet for others that came off with no problems, so we don't have any posting about it. I'm not sure the dose.

 

2) Sometimes, when people are on for a short time, they recover in a relatively short period, others may not. There's no way to know except to wait and see, really. Sometimes, a person will have WD for a long time after only taking a med for two weeks. It's just impossible to know what category you may be in. It's entirely possible that you could recover quickly.

 

3) I believe the body will eventually heal, your body is trying to heal but your brain was structurally changed and CT was like pulling a crutch away from one with a broken leg.

 

4) I left off a med for 14 days and realized I wasn't getting better. I reinstated the dose I left off (before I found SA). I would have tried to stabilize on a smaller dose if I'd known what I've learned here. I felt better after taking one dose but didn't really stabilize much for a few months. Some people stabilize a lot more quickly than I did, after reinstatement.

 

No need to apologize for questions, you need to weigh it all out so you can make the best choice for 'you'. I'm sure you're still confused and I sincerely apologize to you.

 

Insomnia is one of the worst WD symptoms, but they're all hell. These drugs ARE VERY POWERFUL! Stopping them abruptly, throws your CNS for a loop!

[tezza]

Here's Jemima's story:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/?hl=jemima

[Altostrata]

daspin, what are your symptoms now?

 

Anyone who has take an antidepressant for a month or more is at risk for withdrawal syndrome (and we know of people who suffered severe withdrawal after being on one of the drugs for a much shorter time).

 

Whether or not you might suffer protracted withdrawal is entirely individual and cannot be predicted. This is why we advocate ALWAYS tapering rather than cold turkey, unless you have a medical emergency. Despite a temporary inconvenience, being safe is better than being sorry.

 

The pattern of withdrawal symptoms is also unpredictable. Some people get severe symptoms right away. Others get mild symptoms that get worse over time. For some, symptoms resolves within a few months. Others, it takes years.

[daspin]

Thanks for asking. Today wasnt actually too bad. Today the main thing was chest tightness/discomfort and the heavy head/fog/headache that has been present the whole time, as well as nausea. But everything else seemed toned right down today. Still dealing with the chest discomfort the most right now. I was so close to reinstating today, out of fear of this lasting a long long time, but I did not. I can deal with these symptoms right now. The are not debilitating anymore. Of course I would change my tune if this went on for months, but I can deal with this for a bit.

 

I can't imagine dealing with this for years.. If people deal with this for years, these drugs should be off the market! They are poison and in fact,some argue they don't work much more than a placebo anyways, but I don't know about that. After being on for such a short time, I would be devestated to feel like this long term. It would tear my life apart. I am very athletic and race mountain bikes. Since going through this I can;t train and it has effectively ended my activer lifestyle. Yikes.. Scary stuff.

[daspin]

Well after having a pretty decent day yesterday and actually an evening where I felt like the old me, BAM, I got hit with a MAC truck today! SEVERE Anxiety, Derealization/Depersonalization, Blurred Vision, Chest Pain/Discomfort, Nausea, Tingling across my shoulders and back, Numb hands and face..

 

WOW.. I near broke down. Was very similar to feelings that put me in the ER not so long ago..

 

Sheesh... I wish I knew if this was still WD symptoms or my anxiety issues coming back. What a ride this has been for the last 10 weeks since my panic attack. I WANT MY LIFE BACK!!!!!! I am so demoralized right now. I honestly thought I had made good progress with the professionally guided CBT therapy, and thought I was on the road to recovery from my initial anxiety/panic issues. And then a day like today. I wish I could blame it on WD symptoms still, but it makes no sense. I was clearly seeing better days the last few. I can;t see how WD symptoms would kick me this hard after showing signs of being gone just 24 hours earlier. None of this makes sense to me. I was on for 5 Weeks! 5 Weeks! thats all.. This has to be the panic and anxiety issues again. I just can't see WD after such a short period being so strong and unpredictable.

 

And I was just about to start tapering the clonazepam. Clearly I am not ready for that yet. Today I feel demoralized beyond belief.

 

[tezza]

Unfortunately, WD does last a long time, often. Windows and waves are typical and no one knows how long it will take to recover, it varies from one person to another.

 

If you go to the ER, they're likely going to try to give you more drugs. I'm not a gambler but I'd bet on it being WD. I had the most awful panic and anxiety, depression, broken sleep after insomnia got better, tinnitus, muscle twitches, DPDR, agoraphobia, no motivation, no hope, suicidal thoughts, guilt complex and the list goes on.

 

The symptoms come and go as they please. When one would ease up another would come visit for however long.

 

I've been real sick for almost two years just for CTing for two weeks, I shudder to think where I'd be if I had not reinstated. I'm still not 100% but maybe 90% as of August.

[Altostrata]

Sure sounds like the wave and windows pattern of withdrawal to me.

[daspin]

Gonna have take your guys word for it. I have zero experience with this stuff and you guys I'm sure have heard this story over and over and over.

 

I guess my window for reinstating is closed now anyways. And I'm not sure what the right answer is. TeZza, you have been sick for 2 years because of going cold turkey? What!?' How long were you on for?

 

God I hate the idea of putting that poison in my body. But I can't afford to be like this for 2 years. The initial panic disorder was tough enough. Now I have to deal with this doctor induced crap? I am so frustrated. I should have never taken this or been prescribed it in the first place. But i should have done my homework first!!

 

So I took AD for 5 weeks, and now get to suffer for years. Fantastic.

[tezza]

There is nothing definite but there is always hope. You can try a small dose, you won't know unless you try, whether it will help or not.

[daspin]

Day 12 off AntiDepressants Cold Turkey (19 days since lexapro, 12 days since pristiq)

Was on 10MG Lexapro (Cipralex) for 4 weeks

and on 50MG Pristiq for one week

 

And I think that's all she wrote. I think tonight I am going to reinstate the lexapro (even though it did nothing for me the 4 weeks I took it). Or maybe I should reinstate the pristiq? I'm not sure which is the cause of the WD symptoms. My wife says I shouldn't as none of it helped even when I was on it. In fact I got worse. I can;t tell you how angry I am at myself for putting this poison in my body!! We do stupid things when desperate. Before this I would even avoid an advil for headache. But one panic attack, with a spell of high anxiety and I caved in and took anything the doc wanted throw at me. Klonopin? Sure, hand it over.. Lexapro? Sure! Pristiq? Yup, hand it over! AHHHHHHHHH!!!! How could I be such an idiot! Now the drug has caused a bigger problem than what existed previously! I probably could have beaten the panic and anxiety through CBT therapy! But now I'll never know, as I don't even know if all theses current symptoms are WD or my anxiety/panic..

 

YOU WIN DRUG COMPANIES! YOU WIN! I will reinstate, and live my life as a zombie, and sick. I will be half the husband, half the father and half the man I once was. I give up.

 

I am clearly not strong enough for any of this. My life has forever been changed and I must now accept the fact I will not recover or be happy again. My poor family. My daughter's letter to Santa this year said"

 

"Dear Santa,

Please make my daddy better. He is my best friend. I love him.

Love Aeris"

 

If only Santa could help me. I am defeated, demoralized and overwhelmed.

 

Thank you all who offered their support and advice. I appreciate it. But as I sit here crying uncontrollably, I am without hope. 10 weeks ago, I was the happiest person on earth. I had everything I needed, and was surrounded by love and friends. As I am about to hit post on this I realize how dramatic it must sound, but I just don't care anymore. It's how I feel.

 

My heart is broken, and I mourn the loss of "ME". I died 10 weeks ago...

[Altostrata]

I would try a little Lexapro, maybe 1mg to start. It comes in a liquid, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/406-tips-for-tapering-off-lexapro-escitalopram/

[Jemima]

Daspin, you most likely will recover from this, so please stop upsetting yourself with the dramatics.  Feeling hopeless is a withdrawal symptom, so keep in mind that this feeling will pass.  You are not permanently ruined, but withdrawal is going to take longer than you'd like. Do reinstate though, as Tezza and Alto suggest. It will help you stabilize and see things a lot more clearly.

[Meimeiquest]

If and when you can read, I would recommend Dr. Stuart Shipko's book, Xanax Withdrawal. It's about a different benzo, and your AD situation makes it a little tougher, but people with a diagnosis of GAS succeed in getting off drugs and reclaiming their lives all the time. And you'll be one of them!

[daspin]

Well today was another bad one. The chest discomfort/pressure/pain is crazy. I'm wondering if it's gas related? Is that possible that the chest pain is due to Gas or indigestion?

 

So I also went to see the pharmacist today. Had long talk with him in his office.  I wanted info on reinstating and his advice as I planned on reinstating today. I completely expected him (Being in the med business) to get me doped back up. Instead, he told me that since it's been 12 days cold turkey that I am likely close to being over the hump and at this point to just stay off it I can bear it. He said all the symptoms I am having are likely a combination of both withdrawal as well as my underlying anxiety. He also agreed after telling my story that I should have not been put on SSRI's to begin with. But that whats done is done. He assured me that I would not suffer permanent brain damage from my silly decision to go cold turkey. And most shocking of all, he told me CBT would be the best bet. A pharmacist saying drugs are not the answer? wow..

 

so, I am still CTing.. I was really hoping WD was the big culprit but there's a sense from the pharmacist it may be my anxiety in combination with some mild WD symptoms.

 

In the end, despite my efforts to seek advice, I am kinda in the same spot. Dealing with some pretty bad symptoms, whether they be WD or not

 

Today

Chest Pain: 7

Nausea:5

blurred vision: 4

depersonalization: 3

tingling/chills across back/neck/shoulders: 6

Numb face and hands: 5

[tezza]

It sounds like your pharmacists is nice and wants to help you, indeed; however, it's unlikely he knows anyone that's suffered from prolonged WD. my GP didn't know anyone till it happened to me.

 

You need to do what you feel is best for you.

 

Wishing you well!

[Altostrata]

Probiotics might help with that possible pressure in your stomach from indigestion.

[daspin]

Yeah, I know. I didn't want to get into it with him, but I know from reading stories here. You are all real people with no reason to give false information. But I didn't feel like getting into that with him. My main reason to see him was I was expecting him to talk to me about reinstating, and possibly give me info on effectiveness, dosing etc. But I left with advice to not reinstate. What a tough decision. I guess if I keep putting the decision off, it will be made for me as the window to reinstate will have closed.

[Altostrata]

I am positive that pharmacist knows absolutely nothing about treating withdrawal symptoms. He read somewhere that withdrawal lasts only a couple of weeks, and he's parroting that.

[daspin]

Probiotics might help with that possible pressure in your stomach from indigestion.

Thanks Alto..It's more chest discomfort/pain.. I'm just wondering if that could possibly be gas related.. not sure. So many symptoms, and discomfort it gets hard to really zero in on what it is.

[daspin]

I am positive that pharmacist knows absolutely nothing about treating withdrawal symptoms. He read somewhere that withdrawal lasts only a couple of weeks, and he's parroting that.

I agree.. The entire Medical Community has let me down here. From firstly being prescribe SSRI to begin with, to being told to stop Klonopin Cold Turkey which ended me in the ER (but didnt put that puzzle together until later), to not discussing the potential problems of SSRI's, and never telling me to not discontinue cold turkey. I accept some responsibility as well for blindly following. But today I was determined to reinstate to mitigate this nightmare if I can, and I sought out some help to do so, but instead whether false or not, he made me believe perhaps this is not WD and it's me, which is bad. Since I was in the fence to begin with, I was easily swayed to continue CTing. Maybe tomorrow I'll be swayed again the other way.. LOL

[Altostrata]

Nothing to lose by trying a good probiotic. Also, you might want to take enzymes to help digestion. Our natrual enzymes lose their punch as we get older.

[tezza]

I'm a believer in probiotics!

[daspin]

Are we talking about yogurt? And what kind I enzymes?

[Altostrata]

Some yogurt contains live cultures that are probiotics. Make sure the label says "live cultures" or some such.

 

You may wish to get a boost in good microorganisms by taking a probiotic supplement. Search for probiotics in the Symptoms and Self-care forum.

 

Digestive enzymes are something else -- such as papain or lactase (to digest milk products) or that enzyme that digests beans. I prefer the vegetarian enzyme supplements.

[daspin]

Thanks. I'll try it out!

[Petunia]

Hi Daspin,

 

When I read your first posts, I thought there was a fairly good chance that you would start to feel better quickly, given that you were only on medication for 5 weeks.  I had no doubt that you were experiencing some withdrawal symptoms though.

 

 

But today I was determined to reinstate to mitigate this nightmare if I can, and I sought out some help to do so, but instead whether false or not, he made me believe perhaps this is not WD and it's me, which is bad. Since I was in the fence to begin with, I was easily swayed to continue CTing. Maybe tomorrow I'll be swayed again the other way.. LOL

 

 

From my own experience, I know that taking an SSRI can cause depression.  I first started on Zoloft, also an SSRI, for anxiety, not depression.  It did help with the anxiety, but within 2 months of being on it, I was suffering from depression, I didn't know it at the time, it never even occurred to me to connect it with the medication, after all, its called an 'anti-depressant', but that's what it did.

 

Perhaps reinstating a small amount of Lexapro would be a good idea, seeing as you are still having withdrawal symptoms.  In general, over the last 10 days, would you say your symptoms have improved, stayed the same or got worse?

 

Are you still taking the Klonopin? The same amount at the same time?

 

It would be helpful if you could put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature, instructions are here:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

I agree with something Nikki wrote a few posts up, some of what you are going through is related to the trauma of they way you have been treated and what these medications have done, so this is in no way you, but a normal reaction to a frightening situation, over which you had very little control.

 

You will get over this and you will recover.  The only part of this which is you, is whatever caused the original panic attack, which you can overcome with CBT.

 

Whatever you decide to do, I hope you feel better soon.

 

Petu.

[daspin]

Thanks Petu. Yes I am still taking the klonopin. One in the morning and one at night. I am thinking of upping that dosage though to see ofnit can help.

 

In terms of whether it's gotten better or worse, well I had some better days and some worse days. The last 3 have been rough. And now I'm not sleeping a full night all of a sudden so add that to the list.

 

This weekend I am going to try and plug through as usual for the sake of my kids. Praying I can recover.

[Zoe]

Hi Daspin-

Have just been reading your posts. I was taken off of Lexapro and switched immediately to another drug. The symptoms that you are describing I've had. Especially the chest pain & tightness. I would really listen to what Alto & Tezza are recommending. This forum has been a life saver for me. These people are more knowledgeable about this stuff than anyone you could find anywhere else. Have you tried exercising lately? I have found that it really takes the edge off the anxiety and it gives you back some normalcy to your life. You will get through this- hang in there. 

[tezza]

Waking early is caused by a spike in cortisol while you are sleeping. Cortisol is known as 'the fight or flight' hormone. This is almost universal in withdrawal. I would wake in a panic attack, feeling like I'd been startled awake. I also had very vivid dreams, often about dead people.

 

If you look in the Signs and Symptoms thread, you'll find ways to try to cope with some of the WD symptoms.

[daspin]

Quick question to anyone who has been around here a while. Given I was only on this or 5 weeks, have you ever heard of panic or sever anxiety being a WD symptom? Reason this is really

Important to me is that it was panic attacks and constant anxiety (ie tingling across my back and chest pains) that was what started all this. Well I had been working hard with CBT, not too mention paying $250 per session for it and i thought I had made progress in this area. Until today. All the feelings of panic and anxiety are back. Feels just like it did 10 weeks ago when this all started. And that would be disappointing given all the work I have done. Is there any chance this could be withdrawal related as well?

 

Look forward to your response. Sitting in front of me is an oral syringe with 10ml of lexapro in it with one crushed 10mg tablet. It's the second solution I have made. I just can bein myself to do it. I'm so scared or setting myself back.

 

Wish I had the advantage if hindsight.

[Meimeiquest]

Absolutely.