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Tips to help sleep: so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

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JackieDecides
On 6/17/2019 at 6:05 PM, AlexRussia said:

Anyone dealing with paradoxal fear of sleep/ibsomnia

 

for me, insomnia IS the fear of not sleeping.

 

not sleeping (or not sleeping well) for a night or two is normal (again, for me), but if I get into a fear of it and not relaxing, then it becomes insomnia.

 

 


Currently taking Ramapril (blood pressure) 5 mg twice a day

Omeprazole 10 mg AM and 20 mg PM  (the taper has gone nowhere after the first cut)

Famotidine   once a day (and I still needs tums sometimes)

magnesium 200 mg at night

as of yesterday 2 fish oil capsules "EPA-DHA 1000"

 

off Lexapro as of 5/2018  - last dose had been 5 mg every other day for a couple years

 

highest dose had been 20 mg at which point I was diagnosed with Bipolar II, which went away when I cut the lexapro down to 15 mg. 

 

I spent years on Paxil before Lexapro (can't remember dose), briefly on Effexor and Abilify and others I have forgotten. in fact, when I was diagnoses with BPII I was put on all kinds of things which made me feel so bad I stopped them cold turkey within maybe 3 or 4 weeks, thank goodness. since then I've known these pills were terrible and I weaned down the Lexapro with zero help or support over I'm not sure how many years. 

 

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Altostrata

To post #1, added Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration. Recommended!


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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JackieDecides
33 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

To post #1, added Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration. Recommended!

 

that looks excellent; last fall when I had terrible insomnia that was the therapy that really helped me. 


Currently taking Ramapril (blood pressure) 5 mg twice a day

Omeprazole 10 mg AM and 20 mg PM  (the taper has gone nowhere after the first cut)

Famotidine   once a day (and I still needs tums sometimes)

magnesium 200 mg at night

as of yesterday 2 fish oil capsules "EPA-DHA 1000"

 

off Lexapro as of 5/2018  - last dose had been 5 mg every other day for a couple years

 

highest dose had been 20 mg at which point I was diagnosed with Bipolar II, which went away when I cut the lexapro down to 15 mg. 

 

I spent years on Paxil before Lexapro (can't remember dose), briefly on Effexor and Abilify and others I have forgotten. in fact, when I was diagnoses with BPII I was put on all kinds of things which made me feel so bad I stopped them cold turkey within maybe 3 or 4 weeks, thank goodness. since then I've known these pills were terrible and I weaned down the Lexapro with zero help or support over I'm not sure how many years. 

 

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ChessieCat

Just wanted to mention something which may not have been thought of.

 

Some intestinal worms are common and easily transmitted, especially when around children.

 

Having worms can cause restless sleep.

 

I've also seen mention of having worms causing bruxism.

 

 

 

Edited by ChessieCat

REMINDER TO SELF:

I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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ShiningLight

I have a big problem with interrupted sleep in withdrawal. I wake up a lot in the night.

 

I accidentally discovered that going to bed a little later than usual (an hour or two) seems to help. Maybe I fall into a harder sleep or something, I'm not sure. I wake up less times and I feel like my sleep is deeper.  I wanted to share it in case anyone else wants to try it. Before, I was trying to go to bed earlier. I don't think that helped.


Now: Gabapentin 31 mg 4x/day =124 mg, 150 mg Zoloft am since 2004, 50 mg Trazodone bedtime.  Daily drug burden decreased from 2050 mg to 324 mg 🐢🐢

2020, Gabapentin each dose 4x/day: Aug 20 31 mg, Aug 18, 33 mg, July 29, 35 mg, July 23 38 mg, July 22 40 mg Jun 24 42 mg, Jun 15 44 mg, Jun 9 48 mg, May 22 50 mg, May 14 54 mg, May 7 56 mg, Apr 16 58 mg, Mar 28 60 mg, Mar 18 62 mg. Feb 26 64 mg. Feb 19, 66 mg. Jan 23, 70 mg.

2019 Dec 19, 72 mg. Nov 14 ,76 mg. Aug 8, 80 mg. Aug 6, 85 mg. Jul 26, 90 mg. Jul 11, 95 mg.

Jul 16 trazodone from 100 to 50 mg.

Jun 17-July 10 Slowly changed gab fr pill to liquid at same dose 100 mg 4x/d.

Apr 24 Stopped klon!!! 🌞 Apr 4  Decreased gaba to 400 mg (100 mg 4x/day)-Apr 4, 2019   0.25 klon

March 11  Klonopin .5 mg twice daily, varied dose til Apr 15. Started Klon fast taper 25%, short use

Mar 16, 450 mg gaba 3x/day cut 600 mg--not exact!--updose after learning w/d

Feb 20, 2019 1800 mg gabapentin; MD taper; off 3 days=mvt disorder & autonomic instability. July 2018 temazepam 15 mg 1-2; prn several x/wk til Jan/Feb 2019 when cold turkey, flu illness for months

July 2018 started gabapentin 100 3x/day; titrated up to 1800 mg (600 3x/day)

Buspar, I forget how much, 2 pills a day Jan 2017-July 2018 cold turkey

*I speak from my experience. Nothing I say is medical advice. I'm not a doctor.

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getofflex

I personally like the Claire Weekes approach to anxiety and withdrawal.  I believe that getting too uptight about our insomnia only makes it worse.  Insomnia won't kill you.  Don't get desperate and highly anxious about having sleep issues.  Just accept it, go with the flow, and float with it. 

 

According to Dr Weekes, severe anxiety is caused by a primary fear, and then having secondary fear(anxiety) about the primary fear.  We have to let go of this secondary fear, because otherwise we are just consumed with anxiety, and it becomes a vicious cycle.  She has helped cure many people by teaching them to let go of anxiety about our anxiety, or anxiety about our sleeplessness or whatever.  There is a good one hour video on youtube that explains all this detail.  

 


Lexapro   April02 - Aug17: 10 mg,  ***  Aug17 - Sept17: 5 mg ***  Sept17 - Nov17:  2.5 mg,  ***  Nov17: 0 mg, ***   Dec17 - Aug18: 5 mg  ***    Aug/1/18 - Aug/30/18: 2.5 mg     *** Sep/1/18 - Sep/27/18:  1.25 mg. ***   Sep/28/18 - Oct/31/18:  2.5 mg,  ***  Nov/1/18 - Nov/15/18: 1.25 mg  ***   Nov/16/18 - Nov/30/18: 2.5 mg  ***   Dec/1/18 - Dec/27/18: 2.0 mg (switched to liquid)  ***    Dec/27/18 - Jan/31/19: 1.5 mg ***    Feb/1/19 - Feb/20/19: 1.0 mg  ***  Feb/21/19 - Mar/7/19: 0.5 mg  ***  Mar/8/19 - May/03/19: 0.8 mg ***   May/04/19 - May/13/19 0.7 mg ***  May/14/19 - May/24/19 0.6 mg *** May/25/19 - June/05/19. 0.5 mg *** June/06/19 - July/19/19 0.4 mg. ***  July/20/19 - Sep 14 2019 0.3 mg.  ***  Sep 15 2019 - Oct 21 2019 0.27 mg. *** Oct 22 2019 - Jan 18 2020 - 0.23 mg. *** Jan 19 2020 - April 1 2020 0.2 mg  ***  April 2 2020 - July 15 2020 0.18 mg *** July 16 2020 - August 22 0.17 mg, August 23 -- Oct 6 0.16 mg, Oct 7 - present 0.15 mg

Trazodone.  used 50 mg once every 4-7 days for sleep, have discontinued altogether as of 12/23/19

Xanax. used 0.5 mg once every 4-7 days for sleep, have discontinued altogether as of 12/23/19 

When I cannot go to sleep, I take Benadryl 50 mg, Ibuprofen 800 mg, or Tylenol 1000 mg

other meds: Levothyroxine 75 mag. in AM 1/2 hour before breakfast with 24 ounces water

supplements AM: omega 3 fish oil, flax seed oil, natural multivitamin, vitamin C, vitamin E

supplements PM: Natural Calm magnesium 350 mg, GABA 750 mg, 5-HTP 50 mg. Estroven Sleep Cool and Calm (contains black cohosh 40 mg, soy isoflavones 56 mg) melatonin 3 mg

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Asi1309

So...

Does anyone has a successful method of getting a full night sleep?


CIPRALEX 10MG(M) TAB (Escitalopram): 29/01/2014-08/05/2016
VIEPAX 37.5MG TAB (Venlafaxine): 08/05/2016-26/06/2016
PRIZMA TAB (Fluoxetine Hydrochloride): 26/06/2016-18/08/2016
ELATROL 25MG TAB (Amitriptyline Hydrochloride): 18/08/2016-05/01/2017
WELLBUTRIN XR 150MG (M) TAB (Bupropion-Wellbutrin): 05/01/2017-16/01/2017
WELLBUTRIN XR 300MG (M) TAB (Bupropion-Wellbutrin): 16/01/2017-05/2018
SERTRALINE TEVA 50MG TAB (Sertraline): 29/05/2017-
SERENADA 50 MG TAB (Sertraline): 03/07/2017-16/07/2018
ARIPLY 5MG<><>(28) TAB (Aripiprazole): 17/06/2018-24/06/2018
BRINTELLIX (M) 10MG TAB 28 (Vortioxetine): 24/06/2018-16/07/2018
CLONEX 0.5 MG TAB (Clonazepam): 29/05/2017-16/07/2018 when needed not constant

May 2018 cold turkey: SERENADA 50 MG TAB, WELLBUTRIN XR 300MG TAB, SERTRALINE TEVA 100 MG TAB. June 2018 - partial reinstatement: ARIPLY 5 MG TAB, BRINTELLIX 10 MG TAB, SERENADA 50 MG TAB. July 16 2018 - cold turkey again. October 4 2018 - reinstatement: SERTRALINE TEVA ~ 0-25 MG TAB Overall: 29/01/14 - 16/07/18 + 27 days >>>> 4 years, 6 months, 1 week, 6 days, 8 hours, 40 minutes. 

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lilia

Is it possible to have reaction to himalayan salt? I tried to use it and on my 2nd attempt  noticed strange reactions  - weakness ( and trembling) in solar plexus,  superficial heartbeat and extrasystoles for about 2 hours. And slept worse that night.

I was not sure that the reason  is in himalayan salt, so I tried again yesterday before bedtime - just took little pinch of salt with bread and had the same reactions. And again poor sleep. 

My nervous system has become extra sensitive since I have stopped paroxetine almost 4 years ago but it's too much for me - sensitivity even to himalayan salt! How to calm it?Cannot find anything that is helpful.


Xetanor (paroxetine) 20mg since 2003. 

2011 September begin taper to 5mg for 4 weeks.

2015 December started to withdraw as I missed a day, two then three in receiving the pill. It took 6 months. End 2016 May.

 

Rivotril (clonazepam) 0,5mg since 2003, not often than 2 times per month. Since 2017 - 2 times weekly.

 

Supplements: brewer yeast. Since stopping antidepressants cannot take it - started to be sensitive to all kinds of supplements and drugs.

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Gridley
9 minutes ago, lilia said:

himalayan salt?

I've not encountered this but just about anything is possible in withdrawal due to our sensitized symptoms.  I'd avoid it.


Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Lorazepam 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, resumed a few months later. CT 2000.  1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept, 2016 increased to 0.5 X 3 in split dose. Sept. 2019 increased to 0.625 X 3 after crossover to new brand

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 15mg.  Aug 2016, discovered SA, updosed to 25mg and holding.  Taper is 66% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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lilia

Thanks for reply Gridley. Surely I will avoid it, but have to avoid so many things! My life since 2016 is avoidance after avoidance after avoidance...That's miserable!

I will never be the same again. My nervous system is seriously upset and cannot recover by itself almost 4 years later. I weaken, my muscles are weakening because during physical activity receive solar plexus issues. For instance cannot walk more than 3-4 km with slow pace. If I have to walk fast I will drop out on my 1st km. Cannot get enough sleep. Seems that withdrawal is for the rest of life? 


Xetanor (paroxetine) 20mg since 2003. 

2011 September begin taper to 5mg for 4 weeks.

2015 December started to withdraw as I missed a day, two then three in receiving the pill. It took 6 months. End 2016 May.

 

Rivotril (clonazepam) 0,5mg since 2003, not often than 2 times per month. Since 2017 - 2 times weekly.

 

Supplements: brewer yeast. Since stopping antidepressants cannot take it - started to be sensitive to all kinds of supplements and drugs.

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lilia
On 8/15/2019 at 7:39 AM, ShiningLight said:

I have a big problem with interrupted sleep in withdrawal. I wake up a lot in the night.

 

I accidentally discovered that going to bed a little later than usual (an hour or two) seems to help. Maybe I fall into a harder sleep or something, I'm not sure. I wake up less times and I feel like my sleep is deeper.  I wanted to share it in case anyone else wants to try it. Before, I was trying to go to bed earlier. I don't think that helped.

 

ShiningLight, if you go to bed later, do you sleep longer? How early you wake up?

I desperately need to regain my morning sleep between 5-9 a.m.


Xetanor (paroxetine) 20mg since 2003. 

2011 September begin taper to 5mg for 4 weeks.

2015 December started to withdraw as I missed a day, two then three in receiving the pill. It took 6 months. End 2016 May.

 

Rivotril (clonazepam) 0,5mg since 2003, not often than 2 times per month. Since 2017 - 2 times weekly.

 

Supplements: brewer yeast. Since stopping antidepressants cannot take it - started to be sensitive to all kinds of supplements and drugs.

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Gridley
4 hours ago, lilia said:

Seems that withdrawal is for the rest of life? 

No, it really does end.  All I can say is that it will be frustrating and last a lot longer than we would like or that makes any sense, but it does end.

I have avoidance after avoidance too, with foods and exercise and social events and even just going to the no-stress little village down the mountain.  I look forward to the day when I can start adding things back to my life.  This is the hardest thing we'll ever go through, but we'll come out stronger on the other side.


Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Lorazepam 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, resumed a few months later. CT 2000.  1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept, 2016 increased to 0.5 X 3 in split dose. Sept. 2019 increased to 0.625 X 3 after crossover to new brand

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 15mg.  Aug 2016, discovered SA, updosed to 25mg and holding.  Taper is 66% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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lilia
11 hours ago, Gridley said:

No, it really does end.  All I can say is that it will be frustrating and last a lot longer than we would like or that makes any sense, but it does end.

 

Sounds encouraging, thank you. I hope to reach that but still living only with hope.


Xetanor (paroxetine) 20mg since 2003. 

2011 September begin taper to 5mg for 4 weeks.

2015 December started to withdraw as I missed a day, two then three in receiving the pill. It took 6 months. End 2016 May.

 

Rivotril (clonazepam) 0,5mg since 2003, not often than 2 times per month. Since 2017 - 2 times weekly.

 

Supplements: brewer yeast. Since stopping antidepressants cannot take it - started to be sensitive to all kinds of supplements and drugs.

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JackieDecides

I've had insomnia for decades but it got very, very bad more than a year ago. I found relief by following the advice - all of it - in the book Quiet Your Mind and Get to Sleep: Solutions to Insomnia for Those with Depression, Anxiety or Chronic Pain. authors are Carney and Manber.  I thought I knew all about sleep hygiene and so forth but I still learned from this book. 

 

since then I still have it sometimes but not nearly as bad and I feel a sense of hope, I guess, knowing that it will always be temporary.

 

you can learn to trust your body/mind - it will sleep, eventually. but a lot of things people do to make it better (like "trying" to fall asleep, or napping) can make it worse. 

 

 


Currently taking Ramapril (blood pressure) 5 mg twice a day

Omeprazole 10 mg AM and 20 mg PM  (the taper has gone nowhere after the first cut)

Famotidine   once a day (and I still needs tums sometimes)

magnesium 200 mg at night

as of yesterday 2 fish oil capsules "EPA-DHA 1000"

 

off Lexapro as of 5/2018  - last dose had been 5 mg every other day for a couple years

 

highest dose had been 20 mg at which point I was diagnosed with Bipolar II, which went away when I cut the lexapro down to 15 mg. 

 

I spent years on Paxil before Lexapro (can't remember dose), briefly on Effexor and Abilify and others I have forgotten. in fact, when I was diagnoses with BPII I was put on all kinds of things which made me feel so bad I stopped them cold turkey within maybe 3 or 4 weeks, thank goodness. since then I've known these pills were terrible and I weaned down the Lexapro with zero help or support over I'm not sure how many years. 

 

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lxjuice

I came here to post about CBT-I and I'm glad it already has been, and a source for the full course for free is brilliant with SRT calculations and everything.

The benefits can't be overstated. It works whether you're depressed or psychotic, whatever medication you are taking and if you are in withdrawal. Hopefully lots of people are using it.


Dx: complex PTSD

Discontinuation/taper history: sertraline, trazodone, prazosin, mirtazapine, diazepam

Took 200mg quetiapine for 0.5 years and 150mg for 1.5 years until 01/2020. Now microtapering daily at an overall rate of 12.5mg/month.

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IanM

Yet another site with sleep supplement suggestion (no affiliate links, I believe):

 

https://www.grc.com/health/sleep/healthy_sleep_formula.htm

 

There's one supplement there I've never heard of, and I thought I'd heard it all.

 


My previous drug history was confusing, so I deleted it in favour of the following summary, as best I can recall:

2017 - Jun 2019: olanzapine, dose erratic, ranging from 1.25 to 2.5mg per day.

2017 - Jun 2019: klonopin, dose erratic, ranging from 0.0625mg twice a day to 0.25mg twice a day.

2017 - Jun 2019: gabapentin, dose erratic, ranging from 200 to 300mg per day.

Date uncertain: Lamotrigine, small amount for two months, C/T.

Jun 2019: admitted to hospital after months of severe rage (which I am certain was caused by akathesia, but no doctor caught it). Doctors cold-turkeyed all drugs, I submitted to 10 courses of ECT, and was put on 50mg of seroquel at bedtime.

Jul 2019 - Feb 2020: reduced seroquel sporadically from 50mg to 18.75mg.

Apr 19, 2020: Reduced seroquel from 18.75mg to 16.5mg.

 

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IanM

Yet another web site with a simple sleep 'hack'... couldn't hurt to try it:

 

https://www.treasuredtips.com/how-to-stay-asleep-all-night/


My previous drug history was confusing, so I deleted it in favour of the following summary, as best I can recall:

2017 - Jun 2019: olanzapine, dose erratic, ranging from 1.25 to 2.5mg per day.

2017 - Jun 2019: klonopin, dose erratic, ranging from 0.0625mg twice a day to 0.25mg twice a day.

2017 - Jun 2019: gabapentin, dose erratic, ranging from 200 to 300mg per day.

Date uncertain: Lamotrigine, small amount for two months, C/T.

Jun 2019: admitted to hospital after months of severe rage (which I am certain was caused by akathesia, but no doctor caught it). Doctors cold-turkeyed all drugs, I submitted to 10 courses of ECT, and was put on 50mg of seroquel at bedtime.

Jul 2019 - Feb 2020: reduced seroquel sporadically from 50mg to 18.75mg.

Apr 19, 2020: Reduced seroquel from 18.75mg to 16.5mg.

 

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Onmyway
On 3/9/2020 at 5:20 AM, IanM said:

Yet another web site with a simple sleep 'hack'... couldn't hurt to try it:

 

https://www.treasuredtips.com/how-to-stay-asleep-all-night/

The stuff about salt and stress hormones is bogus (the rest too). Do not just take a spoonful of salt ever. We already eat way too much sodium (most of us). 


Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg ,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months (don't remember dates), trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up), occasionally did this in difficult times 

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax/day, then 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, April  14 , 2019 - citalopram 1.8 mg (liquid), May 8, 2019 - citalopram 1.6 mg (liquid),  July 27, 2019 - citalopram 1.5 mg (liquid),  August 15, 2019 - citalopram 1.35 (liquid)

 

 supplements:  melatonin 1 mg  

 

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IanM
27 minutes ago, Onmyway said:

The stuff about salt and stress hormones is bogus (the rest too). Do not just take a spoonful of salt ever. We already eat way too much sodium (most of us). 

 

For what it's worth, the 'recipe' on the web site calls for 1/8 of a teaspoon of salt, not a spoonful as you suggest. But I'm no doctor, so I don't know if 1/8 of a teaspoon is bad (and I suppose I wouldn't even trust a doctor if they told me it was bad, anyway...sadly).

 

I guess I should retract my "couldn't hurt to try it" comment and change it to "try at your own risk."

 


My previous drug history was confusing, so I deleted it in favour of the following summary, as best I can recall:

2017 - Jun 2019: olanzapine, dose erratic, ranging from 1.25 to 2.5mg per day.

2017 - Jun 2019: klonopin, dose erratic, ranging from 0.0625mg twice a day to 0.25mg twice a day.

2017 - Jun 2019: gabapentin, dose erratic, ranging from 200 to 300mg per day.

Date uncertain: Lamotrigine, small amount for two months, C/T.

Jun 2019: admitted to hospital after months of severe rage (which I am certain was caused by akathesia, but no doctor caught it). Doctors cold-turkeyed all drugs, I submitted to 10 courses of ECT, and was put on 50mg of seroquel at bedtime.

Jul 2019 - Feb 2020: reduced seroquel sporadically from 50mg to 18.75mg.

Apr 19, 2020: Reduced seroquel from 18.75mg to 16.5mg.

 

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RM123

Been feeling really anxious. Every morning and throughout the day. 
 

Really anxious this morning 


I can’t remember exact dates but:

 

I CT’d 20mg fluoxitine in Aug 2019. I thought to myself well I might as well come off mirtzapine. 10 years on this drug.

 

I CT’d 15mg Mirtzapine in Sept 2019. 2 years on this drug.

 

Insomnia started in Oct 2019 but I took no notice of it. I panicked in Dec 2019 as it became worse and of course never left. Hoping I I would get my

sleep back I reinstated mirtzapine hoping may sleep would come back in Dec 2019  at 7.5mg for a few days then 15mg for a few days then

stabilised at 7.5mg when I found SA. 

 

Since then I have experienced bloating which I have never had before, and a ectopic heart beat. Im exhausted and can't even think, speak or retain what people are saying to me anymore. I used to speak so intellectually and now I can't even get words out. 

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Lzieb

I have a few questions about my sleep cycle. I have started a new protocol that @Altostrata suggested ... I am only on the 3rd day. The problem is my body doesn't naturally fall asleep right now until 12-2. Last night I was up all night with tremors so I got no sleep but aside from that I seem to consistently not be able to fall asleep until then. I have had to use sleep hypnosis or meditation to sleep although that is inconsistent.The new protocol has me sleepy by 10 but I just will lay in bed. I feel like I get tired but I can't fall asleep...I feel like my mind is just blank. How can I switch the time I am tired from 12 or 2 to 10pm. How do you make yourself tired enough to fall asleep? It is actually starting to give me anxiety now. I still will try various things all night - sleep hypnosis, music, meditation but I get nowhere. And the last two night neither have worked. 

 

The CBT stuff suggests you get out of bed every 10 minutes. I have been doing that but it isn't working. Any encouragement or suggestions?

 

 


LZie, Zoloft 25 mg, 3/31-4/6, 

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Athena

What is the new protocol that Alto suggested?

 

For a very long time, I just had to take what sleep my body would give me, whenever it was, even if I was over-exhausted.

 

What time do you get up in the morning?


2000-2001: Effexor              2005-2012: Celexa, Zoloft, Effexor, desipramin, Wellbutrin, mirtazepin, Lamictal, Remeron, Abilify, nortriptylin, Cipralex, Cymbalta, and others I don't remember. Really bad side effects to all.
Sept-Nov 2012: Paxil 20mg, Wellbutrin 100mg, Imovane 5mg      Nov 2012: Paxil 20mg --> 10mg
Dec 2012: Paxil 10mg-->0; 1 week later: HUGE WD symptoms. Started to get informed on the internet and back to 10mg Paxil.
Dec 2012-Jan 2013: Paxil 10mg, Wellbutrin 100mg, Imovane 2.5mg        End Jan 2013: P 9mg, W 100mg, I 2.0mg
Feb 2013: P 8mg, W 100mg, I 1.5mg      April 2013: P 7mg, W 100mg, I 1.25mg       May 2013: P 7mg, W 90mg, I 1mg    

June 2013: P 7mg, W 80mg, I 0mg       July 1/2013: P 7, W 70     July 22/2013: P 7, W 60             Aug 2013: P 7, W 50       Sept 2013: P 6.1, W 50     Oct 2013: P up to 6.3, W 50     Nov 2013: P 6.2 to 5.9, W 50      Dec 2013: P 5.9, W 40      Jan 2014: P 5.3, W40        Feb 2014: P 5.3, W 30      March-April 2014: P 5.3, W 26    May 2014: P 5.3, W 20        June 2014: P 5.3 W 15     July 2014:  P 5.3, W 14       Aug 2014: P 5.3, W up to 15     Sept 2014: P 5.3, W 14    Oct 2014: P 4.8, W 14      Nov 2014: P 4.3, W 14     Dec 2014-Jan 2015: P 3.9, W 14     Feb 2015: P 3.9, W 12    March 2015: P 3.6, W 12   April-May 2015: P 3.3, W 12    June 2015: P 3.3, W 10    July 2015: P 3.3, W 8   Aug-Sept 2015: P 3.3, W 6   Oct 2015: P 3.0, W 6   Nov 2015: P 2.7, W 6   Dec 2015: P 2.4, W 6   Jan-Feb 2016: P 2.4, W 5  March 2016: P 2.2, W 5   April 2016: P 2.2, W 4   May-June 2016: P 2.2, W 3  July 2016: P 2.2, W 2  Aug 2016: P 2.2, W 1  Sept 2016: P 2.2, W 0!!  Oct 2016: P 2.0   Nov 2016-Jan 2017: P 1.8  Feb-Mar 2017: P 1.9  April-May 2017: P 1.8   June 2017: P 1.6 July-Dec 2017: P 1.5  Jan-April 2018: P 1.6

Others: Cytomel 25mcg (thyroid), vit. C, vit D, Omega-3 fish oil, Magnesium bisglycinate , Melatonin 1mg, 81mg Aspirin, Milk peptides, L-theanine, Valericalm tincture mix, scullcap tincture, Suan Zao Ren (jujube seeds)

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getofflex
7 hours ago, Lzieb said:

I have a few questions about my sleep cycle. I have started a new protocol that @Altostrata suggested ... I am only on the 3rd day. The problem is my body doesn't naturally fall asleep right now until 12-2. Last night I was up all night with tremors so I got no sleep but aside from that I seem to consistently not be able to fall asleep until then. I have had to use sleep hypnosis or meditation to sleep although that is inconsistent.The new protocol has me sleepy by 10 but I just will lay in bed. I feel like I get tired but I can't fall asleep...I feel like my mind is just blank. How can I switch the time I am tired from 12 or 2 to 10pm. How do you make yourself tired enough to fall asleep? It is actually starting to give me anxiety now. I still will try various things all night - sleep hypnosis, music, meditation but I get nowhere. And the last two night neither have worked. 

 

The CBT stuff suggests you get out of bed every 10 minutes. I have been doing that but it isn't working. Any encouragement or suggestions?

 

 

I also have had big sleep issues with my ADWD.  I have had to let go of the belief that I absolutely have to sleep or I will die.  I have approached it by telling myself that it is not the end of the world is I'm sleep deprived.  In other words, I accept it.  I realize you feel terrible the day after a sleepless night, but sometimes that is just how it is.  I've come to realize that if I get too uptight about the sleep issue, that alone with cause my sleep issue to get worse.  Every time I do a taper, even the tiniest taper, I have sleep issues for several weeks, and then my sleep improves.  So, as a rule I don't do another taper until I have been able to sleep fairly OK for a couple of weeks.  Now, I will take Benadryl, Tylenol, or ibuprofen, all of which are mild over the counter drugs that can sedate you a little bit and are non addicting.  On nights I cannot sleep, I listen to very relaxing harp or piano or classical music at low volume on Spotify, or I will pray.  Both are relaxing, and it's better than just laying there.  Fortunately, after a few weeks, or a couple of months, I stablilize and I'm able to sleep again.  Good luck.  


Lexapro   April02 - Aug17: 10 mg,  ***  Aug17 - Sept17: 5 mg ***  Sept17 - Nov17:  2.5 mg,  ***  Nov17: 0 mg, ***   Dec17 - Aug18: 5 mg  ***    Aug/1/18 - Aug/30/18: 2.5 mg     *** Sep/1/18 - Sep/27/18:  1.25 mg. ***   Sep/28/18 - Oct/31/18:  2.5 mg,  ***  Nov/1/18 - Nov/15/18: 1.25 mg  ***   Nov/16/18 - Nov/30/18: 2.5 mg  ***   Dec/1/18 - Dec/27/18: 2.0 mg (switched to liquid)  ***    Dec/27/18 - Jan/31/19: 1.5 mg ***    Feb/1/19 - Feb/20/19: 1.0 mg  ***  Feb/21/19 - Mar/7/19: 0.5 mg  ***  Mar/8/19 - May/03/19: 0.8 mg ***   May/04/19 - May/13/19 0.7 mg ***  May/14/19 - May/24/19 0.6 mg *** May/25/19 - June/05/19. 0.5 mg *** June/06/19 - July/19/19 0.4 mg. ***  July/20/19 - Sep 14 2019 0.3 mg.  ***  Sep 15 2019 - Oct 21 2019 0.27 mg. *** Oct 22 2019 - Jan 18 2020 - 0.23 mg. *** Jan 19 2020 - April 1 2020 0.2 mg  ***  April 2 2020 - July 15 2020 0.18 mg *** July 16 2020 - August 22 0.17 mg, August 23 -- Oct 6 0.16 mg, Oct 7 - present 0.15 mg

Trazodone.  used 50 mg once every 4-7 days for sleep, have discontinued altogether as of 12/23/19

Xanax. used 0.5 mg once every 4-7 days for sleep, have discontinued altogether as of 12/23/19 

When I cannot go to sleep, I take Benadryl 50 mg, Ibuprofen 800 mg, or Tylenol 1000 mg

other meds: Levothyroxine 75 mag. in AM 1/2 hour before breakfast with 24 ounces water

supplements AM: omega 3 fish oil, flax seed oil, natural multivitamin, vitamin C, vitamin E

supplements PM: Natural Calm magnesium 350 mg, GABA 750 mg, 5-HTP 50 mg. Estroven Sleep Cool and Calm (contains black cohosh 40 mg, soy isoflavones 56 mg) melatonin 3 mg

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mustafa

Hello every one,

I was wondering if, forwarding yourself (when going to sleep) to to a direction from the main four directions can affect sleep or not!!!

Musls were always forwarding them selves to to the direction of kabaa mosharafa in mekka which is the direction of qibla we forward to while praying( I mentioned this for any one who search for sources of my information).

What made me mention this is that I was sleeping in contrast of the direction of kabaa and I was falling asleep at 11 am and had very bad sleep but when I forward myself to the mentioned direction, I started to have good sleep quality and time.

@Altostrata, I know this thread is for melatoinin so I hope I didnt make any thing wrong. And please send me back any information that would discuss whether the direction of sleeping is effective or not.

Thanks for every one❤.


i wasn't on a certain drug all the period. i took many drugs many times and for no very long period but to simplify.

--fluvoxamine maleate100 mg + amisulpride 200mg------started july 2012 and total taper in february 2015 ( 9 months without drugs then)

--sertraline 100mg -------started november 2015 and total taper (withoud reduction slowly) in november 2016( 4 months withoud drugs then).

--sertraline 100mg + quetiabine 25mg ( started in mars 2016 and for 7 months) then fluvoxamine maleate 100mg again for another 7months and after that a something like to use every drug for 14 days and for about 1.5 years.

--my last drug was trintellix 10 mg ( used it in 12/2018and total taper in 4/2019).

symptomts i have now ( bad concentration and problems in short and long memory+ bad depersonalization).

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Altostrata

I doubt the direction of your body has anything to do with sleep. But if it works for you, it works.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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JackieDecides
On 8/16/2020 at 10:46 AM, mustafa said:

when I forward myself to the mentioned direction, I started to have good sleep quality and time.

 

I am so glad you found what works for you. good sleep is so important. 😊

 

I recently started 

On 8/16/2020 at 10:46 AM, mustafa said:

I know this thread is for melatoinin so I hope I didnt make any thing wrong.

 

it is a thread for sleep tips so no worries. 

 

what is helping me lately is just having a pillow between my knees when I sleep on my side. straightens out my hips/back or something and I have less low back pain since I started doing it. 

 

I have mostly been getting 6 hours of sleep usually six days a week and often a day I have insomnia and end up only getting 2 - 4 hours. 

 

but, could be MUCH worse so I am happy with this. 


Currently taking Ramapril (blood pressure) 5 mg twice a day

Omeprazole 10 mg AM and 20 mg PM  (the taper has gone nowhere after the first cut)

Famotidine   once a day (and I still needs tums sometimes)

magnesium 200 mg at night

as of yesterday 2 fish oil capsules "EPA-DHA 1000"

 

off Lexapro as of 5/2018  - last dose had been 5 mg every other day for a couple years

 

highest dose had been 20 mg at which point I was diagnosed with Bipolar II, which went away when I cut the lexapro down to 15 mg. 

 

I spent years on Paxil before Lexapro (can't remember dose), briefly on Effexor and Abilify and others I have forgotten. in fact, when I was diagnoses with BPII I was put on all kinds of things which made me feel so bad I stopped them cold turkey within maybe 3 or 4 weeks, thank goodness. since then I've known these pills were terrible and I weaned down the Lexapro with zero help or support over I'm not sure how many years. 

 

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ChessieCat

I just had an ad come up when watching YouTube for a sleep mask.  It looks really comfortable.

 

Please note:  I have no affiliation with this product/company.  I receive no monetary gain from it either.  Just saw it and thought that it looked really good.

 

https://mantasleep.com/

 

sleep_maskp-desktop_100x100.jpg?v=156828


REMINDER TO SELF:

I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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greyed

I genuinely believe this is lifelong for me. I got off the mirtazapine too soon (cold turkey) and hell followed in the three weeks. I woke up after 3-4 hours every night and being unable to return to sleep. I was following a book that can help normal, non-depressed insomaniacs. Same waking time everyday no matter what, be calm, believe in the ability to sleep, keep active, get out of bed if can't sleep, etc. None of it was working. My best was a 5.5-6 hour sleep two nights in a row. Out of desperation, I went back to the med on half dosage and sleeping in in the day because I will continue to deteriorate if I don't.


2020 July 28 - August 9: 15 mg Mirtazapine

Quit cold turkey. Experienced tiny brain zaps, dulled emotions, insomnia.

2020 September 2 - 4: reinstated with 7.5 mg Mirtazapine

2020 September 4 - 12: went back to 15 mg Mirtazapine

2020 September 13 - present: reduced to 7.5 mg Mirtazapine

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ChessieCat
10 hours ago, greyed said:

I genuinely believe this is lifelong for me.

 

It might feel like it will not get better but it takes time, sometimes much longer than we would like it to.  It's important to learn and use:

 

non-drug-techniques-to-cope

 

And it helps to learn to accept the situation you are currently in.  Fighting against it takes emotional energy and adds stress to the body:

 

acceptance

 

Please see this topic, which has links to sub topics in Post #1:

 

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take


REMINDER TO SELF:

I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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whatshappening

This past month I've had 12 days of difficult sleep as I get down to a mere 3 mg dose of my tapering journey. Not consecutive nights.. but as a total.  I wonder if being on such a low dose is creating paradoxical effects versus these being withdrawal symptoms as my doctor pointed out. Anyway, During those difficult nights I get anywhere from 1.5 – 3 hours of sleep whether it comes right away after hitting the sack or whether it comes later when the sun is about to come up. Eventually there will be those days that my body catches up and I am thankful for that. But during the days that I don't I just do my best to try to stay productive if I can so that way I don't couple a bad nights rest with a bad unproductive day which tends to make me feel worse about myself. 

 

Things I'm trying currently: 

 

- Glass of wine. Yes I know what you all are going to say but it helps me to relax at the end of the day and I look forward to it. It's never interrupted my sleep all these years and I doubt I'll give it up even during these nights where my sleep is whacky.

- Nighty Night Tea w/ Valerian Root. The valerian aids in some grogginess which is good. 

- Lavender oil - This coupled with the Valerian Tea might have been the regimen that gave me 4 nights of pretty good sleep this week. Or the fact that I was finally tired from crappy sleep the 3 nights before :D . Last night not so much but I'll still keep this combination and see what happens.

- Acceptance might be the key! Since a young adult I've always feared having the goal to sleep and have had insomnia during any major changes or anticipatory situation in my life. I've never came to that realization or said it out loud until recently but finally excepting this is who I am how my body functions will hopefully be the key to not getting so anxious or upset about how much sleep I get nor do not get.

 

 

 

 


Effexor XR 37.5mg (1st time 2003-2004 / 2nd time 2007-2008 / 3rd time 2010-current) Attempted to get off again in July of 2015 and did a year long taper only to reinstate by June 2016 due to failed taper. By July 2017 started to give this another try.

 

7.01.17 - 37.5mg fast forward to 3.25.18 - 26 mg  / 4.27.18 - 23.4 mg  / 5.20.18 - 21 mg  / 6.24.18 - 18.9 mg / 9.7.18 - 17 mg  / 10.13.18 - 15 mg / 11.10.18 - 13.5 mg 12.24.18 - 12 mg / 2.10.19 - 11 mg  / 3.6.19 - Updose to 13 mg and was better only for a month so decided to continue with tapering process. / 5.18.19 - 12 mg / 6.12.19 - 11 mg  / 7.7.19 - 11 mg  / 8.22.19 - 10 mg  / 10.4.19 - 9 mg   / 11.29.19 - 8.5mg / 12.16.19 - 8 mg / 1.24.20 - 7.5mg / 3.15.20 - 6.5mg / 3.29.20 - 6 mgs / 5.9.20  - 5.5 mgs / 5.23.20 - 5 mgs / 6.29.20 - 4.5 mgs / 7.10.20 - 4.25mgs / 7.24.20 - 4 mgs / 8.18.20 - 3.75mg / 9.1.20 - 3.5 mgs / 9.29.20 - 3 mgs but Horrendous side effects suddenly appear preventing further tapering.

 

10.9.20 - Updose to 3.5mg / 10.18.20 - Updose to 4.5mg

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Athena

I'm glad you have some things that help your sleep.

 

7 minutes ago, whatshappening said:

I wonder if being on such a low dose is creating paradoxical effects versus these being withdrawal symptoms

 

What do you mean by paradoxical effects?


2000-2001: Effexor              2005-2012: Celexa, Zoloft, Effexor, desipramin, Wellbutrin, mirtazepin, Lamictal, Remeron, Abilify, nortriptylin, Cipralex, Cymbalta, and others I don't remember. Really bad side effects to all.
Sept-Nov 2012: Paxil 20mg, Wellbutrin 100mg, Imovane 5mg      Nov 2012: Paxil 20mg --> 10mg
Dec 2012: Paxil 10mg-->0; 1 week later: HUGE WD symptoms. Started to get informed on the internet and back to 10mg Paxil.
Dec 2012-Jan 2013: Paxil 10mg, Wellbutrin 100mg, Imovane 2.5mg        End Jan 2013: P 9mg, W 100mg, I 2.0mg
Feb 2013: P 8mg, W 100mg, I 1.5mg      April 2013: P 7mg, W 100mg, I 1.25mg       May 2013: P 7mg, W 90mg, I 1mg    

June 2013: P 7mg, W 80mg, I 0mg       July 1/2013: P 7, W 70     July 22/2013: P 7, W 60             Aug 2013: P 7, W 50       Sept 2013: P 6.1, W 50     Oct 2013: P up to 6.3, W 50     Nov 2013: P 6.2 to 5.9, W 50      Dec 2013: P 5.9, W 40      Jan 2014: P 5.3, W40        Feb 2014: P 5.3, W 30      March-April 2014: P 5.3, W 26    May 2014: P 5.3, W 20        June 2014: P 5.3 W 15     July 2014:  P 5.3, W 14       Aug 2014: P 5.3, W up to 15     Sept 2014: P 5.3, W 14    Oct 2014: P 4.8, W 14      Nov 2014: P 4.3, W 14     Dec 2014-Jan 2015: P 3.9, W 14     Feb 2015: P 3.9, W 12    March 2015: P 3.6, W 12   April-May 2015: P 3.3, W 12    June 2015: P 3.3, W 10    July 2015: P 3.3, W 8   Aug-Sept 2015: P 3.3, W 6   Oct 2015: P 3.0, W 6   Nov 2015: P 2.7, W 6   Dec 2015: P 2.4, W 6   Jan-Feb 2016: P 2.4, W 5  March 2016: P 2.2, W 5   April 2016: P 2.2, W 4   May-June 2016: P 2.2, W 3  July 2016: P 2.2, W 2  Aug 2016: P 2.2, W 1  Sept 2016: P 2.2, W 0!!  Oct 2016: P 2.0   Nov 2016-Jan 2017: P 1.8  Feb-Mar 2017: P 1.9  April-May 2017: P 1.8   June 2017: P 1.6 July-Dec 2017: P 1.5  Jan-April 2018: P 1.6

Others: Cytomel 25mcg (thyroid), vit. C, vit D, Omega-3 fish oil, Magnesium bisglycinate , Melatonin 1mg, 81mg Aspirin, Milk peptides, L-theanine, Valericalm tincture mix, scullcap tincture, Suan Zao Ren (jujube seeds)

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whatshappening
5 minutes ago, Athena said:

I'm glad you have some things that help your sleep.

 

 

What do you mean by paradoxical effects?

My doctor is trying to tell me that all my withdrawal symptoms that I complain about may be caused by the medication itself. And that tampering with its mixture as I open the capsule and weigh beads during this tapering journey might be disrupting the way it's suppose to work. Hence, causing it do create the very side effects that it says may happen when taking it. Additionally, smaller doses make for worse symptoms causing you to always go back on the original dose or sometimes higher. 

 

I don't know But it may be an interesting conspiracy theory worth discussing. I'm wondering if Big Pharmas are in on this?


Effexor XR 37.5mg (1st time 2003-2004 / 2nd time 2007-2008 / 3rd time 2010-current) Attempted to get off again in July of 2015 and did a year long taper only to reinstate by June 2016 due to failed taper. By July 2017 started to give this another try.

 

7.01.17 - 37.5mg fast forward to 3.25.18 - 26 mg  / 4.27.18 - 23.4 mg  / 5.20.18 - 21 mg  / 6.24.18 - 18.9 mg / 9.7.18 - 17 mg  / 10.13.18 - 15 mg / 11.10.18 - 13.5 mg 12.24.18 - 12 mg / 2.10.19 - 11 mg  / 3.6.19 - Updose to 13 mg and was better only for a month so decided to continue with tapering process. / 5.18.19 - 12 mg / 6.12.19 - 11 mg  / 7.7.19 - 11 mg  / 8.22.19 - 10 mg  / 10.4.19 - 9 mg   / 11.29.19 - 8.5mg / 12.16.19 - 8 mg / 1.24.20 - 7.5mg / 3.15.20 - 6.5mg / 3.29.20 - 6 mgs / 5.9.20  - 5.5 mgs / 5.23.20 - 5 mgs / 6.29.20 - 4.5 mgs / 7.10.20 - 4.25mgs / 7.24.20 - 4 mgs / 8.18.20 - 3.75mg / 9.1.20 - 3.5 mgs / 9.29.20 - 3 mgs but Horrendous side effects suddenly appear preventing further tapering.

 

10.9.20 - Updose to 3.5mg / 10.18.20 - Updose to 4.5mg

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Onmyway
On 10/3/2020 at 7:11 AM, whatshappening said:

 

My doctor is trying to tell me that all my withdrawal symptoms that I complain about may be caused by the medication itself.

 

 

Yes, some side effects and some withdrawal symptoms can be identical - nausea, dizziness, numbness - that's because the drug is creating a disequilibrium in your nervous system. 

 

"And that tampering with its mixture as I open the capsule and weigh beads during this tapering journey might be disrupting the way it's suppose to work."

 

That is the point - you are trying to stop the drug from having an effect on your body. 

 

"Hence, causing it do create the very side effects that it says may happen when taking it."

 

I'm not clear here - does he mean that you are getting the side effects because you are not taking it properly, hence you are the problem? If so, he's full of s**t. 

 

"Additionally, smaller doses make for worse symptoms causing you to always go back on the original dose or sometimes higher. "

Smaller doses create withdrawal symptoms. Going back to the original dose does not clear your original problems, it solves the withdrawal issue. That is how you know it is withdrawal, that going on the original dose can sometimes (not always) fix the withdrawal problems. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
put quoted text into quote box

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg ,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months (don't remember dates), trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up), occasionally did this in difficult times 

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax/day, then 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, April  14 , 2019 - citalopram 1.8 mg (liquid), May 8, 2019 - citalopram 1.6 mg (liquid),  July 27, 2019 - citalopram 1.5 mg (liquid),  August 15, 2019 - citalopram 1.35 (liquid)

 

 supplements:  melatonin 1 mg  

 

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ChessieCat
15 minutes ago, Onmyway said:

Going back to the original dose does not clear your original problems, it solves the withdrawal issue. That is how you know it is withdrawal, that going on the original dose can sometimes (not always) fix the withdrawal problems. 

 

Once you experience withdrawal symptoms you need to be cautious about updosing by too much because your nervous system may have become sensitised.  Please see Post #1 of this topic, much of which is relevant to updosing as well as reinstatement:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms


REMINDER TO SELF:

I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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whatshappening
2 hours ago, Onmyway said:

 I'm not clear here - does he mean that you are getting the side effects because you are not taking it properly, hence you are the problem? If so, he's full of s**t. 

Hi onmyway,

ummm in not those exact words but yah basically he said messing with the doses the way I am ( seperating and weighing)  might be creating my symptoms. And that what if, just what if some of the beads in my Effexor XR capsule are just fillers accounting for some. Therefore, not knowing which beads have the active ingredient is causing the side effects. I don’t know but anything is possible. He wants me not to prolong this slow taper because of that possibility. we have even discussed going to the immediate release tablets to have a better control of the active ingredient during tapering.

 

but basically I think I’m already in protracted withdrawal and have been for 1.5 years now or now that I’m at the lowest dose possible I’m maybe intolerance. 


Effexor XR 37.5mg (1st time 2003-2004 / 2nd time 2007-2008 / 3rd time 2010-current) Attempted to get off again in July of 2015 and did a year long taper only to reinstate by June 2016 due to failed taper. By July 2017 started to give this another try.

 

7.01.17 - 37.5mg fast forward to 3.25.18 - 26 mg  / 4.27.18 - 23.4 mg  / 5.20.18 - 21 mg  / 6.24.18 - 18.9 mg / 9.7.18 - 17 mg  / 10.13.18 - 15 mg / 11.10.18 - 13.5 mg 12.24.18 - 12 mg / 2.10.19 - 11 mg  / 3.6.19 - Updose to 13 mg and was better only for a month so decided to continue with tapering process. / 5.18.19 - 12 mg / 6.12.19 - 11 mg  / 7.7.19 - 11 mg  / 8.22.19 - 10 mg  / 10.4.19 - 9 mg   / 11.29.19 - 8.5mg / 12.16.19 - 8 mg / 1.24.20 - 7.5mg / 3.15.20 - 6.5mg / 3.29.20 - 6 mgs / 5.9.20  - 5.5 mgs / 5.23.20 - 5 mgs / 6.29.20 - 4.5 mgs / 7.10.20 - 4.25mgs / 7.24.20 - 4 mgs / 8.18.20 - 3.75mg / 9.1.20 - 3.5 mgs / 9.29.20 - 3 mgs but Horrendous side effects suddenly appear preventing further tapering.

 

10.9.20 - Updose to 3.5mg / 10.18.20 - Updose to 4.5mg

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Onmyway
1 hour ago, whatshappening said:

Hi onmyway,

ummm in not those exact words but yah basically he said messing with the doses the way I am ( seperating and weighing)  might be creating my symptoms. And that what if, just what if some of the beads in my Effexor XR capsule are just fillers accounting for some. Therefore, not knowing which beads have the active ingredient is causing the side effects. I don’t know but anything is possible. He wants me not to prolong this slow taper because of that possibility. we have even discussed going to the immediate release tablets to have a better control of the active ingredient during tapering.

 

but basically I think I’m already in protracted withdrawal and have been for 1.5 years now or now that I’m at the lowest dose possible I’m maybe intolerance. 

 

Hi Whatishappening, 

your symptoms are created from the withdrawal from the drug. The fact that there is variation in the doses can definitely make things worse but it is not the main cause of the issue. I am not familiar with the Effexor beads situation - I think there are threads on the various drugs on this website and you can learn from the wisdom of the people here. My poison is citalopram and I am lucky that it comes in a liquid so I can dilute. There are a few principles in tapering that I have learned on this website: 

 

1) Going up on your dose does not necessarily solve withdrawal (also see ChessieCat's answer above) 

       1a) if you are going up on your dose go very slowly, by small amounts. Sometimes 1 mg or less will improve your symptoms sufficiently. I reinstated at 2.5

           and it was sufficient.  I wish I had tried 1mg but this was before I knew of SA. 

 

2) Going up and then down and then up and down again can create something called kindling - i.e. make your nervous system more sensitized

3) You need to take your drug as consistently as possible - both in terms of timing and dosage 

 

The issue with drugs like Effexor is that they have a very short half life - i.e. they get eliminated very quickly from your body. In the case of Effexor it seems to be only 4 hrs. That means that you need to dose it very frequently and very consistently if you are not taking the XR version or it may cause inter-dose withdrawal symptoms. A friend on this would not be able to skip even a day without getting physically ill - flu symptoms, nausea. I presume (but am not an expert on this) that variations can precipitate a kindling reaction. So if you go away from the XR version, you will need to be very careful to take it multiple times a day -  2-3 a day and this may need to be even more frequent if you are on lower doses. Please have a look at the Effexor thread. In this journey, I would trust SA over a doctor every single day. 

 

 

I am so sorry that you are on this drug as it seems to be one of the hardest to get off of. A friend's mom (79 yrs old) was just prescribed this because she has night sweats which were presumed to be from anxiety. She ended up at A&E with panic attacks (did not have them before). GP did not inform the woman why she was prescribing this drug, of potential side effects or withdrawal symptoms. Poor woman thought this would help with the night sweats, did not know this was even a brain drug. It did nothing did nothing positive for her symptoms in 7 days, it actually made things worse. I suspect this woman has dysautonomia as many of her symptoms seem similar to ADWD without her having taken any ADs before venlafaxine but no one is considering that diagnosis and I only think of it as an analogy to ADWD. After my advice and another friend's horror stories coming off of this, she is off of the drug now. These drugs are another form of abuse inflicted often on women, esp. elderly women. I was/am so furious. 

 

 

 


Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg ,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months (don't remember dates), trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up), occasionally did this in difficult times 

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax/day, then 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week, April  14 , 2019 - citalopram 1.8 mg (liquid), May 8, 2019 - citalopram 1.6 mg (liquid),  July 27, 2019 - citalopram 1.5 mg (liquid),  August 15, 2019 - citalopram 1.35 (liquid)

 

 supplements:  melatonin 1 mg  

 

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