Sarabellum: Introduction from someone who is SSRI free but struggling

[Altostrata]

Serotonin syndrome is an overdose of serotonergics while you're taking drugs. If you're off serotonergics, you do not have serotonin syndrome.

 

Doctors are very hazy on both serotonin syndrome and withdrawal syndrome.

[Sarabellum]

Sorry, what I meant to say was SSRI discontinuation syndrome.

 

These are the things that scare me - mixing up phrases.

[Altostrata]

Oh, we all do that. Doctors still don't have a clue.

[Sarabellum]

And this is why I'm going into nursing. I may go on to become a nurse practitioner but the goal is to be a voice for something outside of big pharma.

[Sarabellum]

I had a major blow up with the boyfriend. I don't know if the relationship will survive but I hope it will. I am heartbroken.

[Addax]

Feeling like our heart is broken or anticipating that it might be (regardless of whether there is evidence to support the assumption) is a horrible feeling. I'm sorry you're feeling this way, Sara . Other people's anger can be scary. In the moment I know it can feel like the person will never get over being angry and  I have often interpreted someones expression of anger as a signal that rejection imminent... I've been proven wrong on this so many times, but in the moment I always seem to believe that's how it will play out.  This is more true if I'm already feeling down.  

 

I wish I had something wise and insightful to say.  I wanted to at least stop by and say, I know you'll get through this and I hope whatever you want to happen happens.  

[Altostrata]

I'm rooting for you, Sara.

[Sarabellum]

Thank you Alostrata. 

And thank you for sharing and wanting to help Addax. It means a great deal. It gives me hope that someone I don't even know cares enough to want to help.

 

I think there is hope with the boyfriend but I'm concerned. I've been wavering between beating myself up and just being overwhelmed with how my life will be if he leaves. 

 

I have been so negative and it wears on him. I can understand this because it wears on me. If I stand back and look at how I am ... how I shoot down every positive suggestion anyone offers me ... I can't say that I would blame him for wanting away from me. I don't understand why I am stuck in the groove of negativity. I want out of it. Yes the imbalances are kicking me but if I can't get a handle on it, I will drive everyone who loves me away.

 

He really has been supportive. I think sometimes it's just that we don't have the same definitions of things and that's where we get into trouble. My idea of support doesn't exactly match his, for example. But it doesn't mean we can't reach a compromise. It just means it's challenging.

Regardless of what happens with him, I have to learn to be ok within my own skin and this is something I've struggled with for a long time. It hasn't been this pronounced (which I'm chalking up to hormones and drugs) but it doesn't mean I can't beat it.

[Fitby50]

Good Luck with that Sara.  It is hard to see positive sometimes when we are in a bad wave.   We need to keep changing the channel like Alto says, when we get plagued with the negative.  I tend to be a negative thinker myself.  When I think about how my mom was, and see my older sisters being so negative, I realize how much I grew up in that environment.  I can be more positive when feeling good, but have a really tough time when I feel like my world is caving in and everything seems dismal.  Do you think your CBT that you have done helps you shake the negative thoughts?  I hope you and your boyfriend can have a good talk and work things out.  If he understands what you are going through, I would hope he could cut you some slack.  Let him know that you are trying the best that you can, but no one is perfect and some days just get the best of us no matter how strong we are. 

[Sarabellum]

I feel like I'm barely holding on and I'm tired of feeling this way. It's been almost over a year and if anything, I feel worse. I have so much on my plate. I need to find a way to manage my emotions because I just can't function day to day.

 

I just want to feel better and no consumed by panic 24/7.

 

I work at meditation and mindfulness but it's a struggle. 

[Sarabellum]

I really feel I am at my wits end. I have been off Cymbalta for a year and a half and Zoloft for a almost a year and I feel no better than I did a year ago. If anything, I feel worse. I have been reading self-care. I have been working at meditation and mindfulness.

 

But I get told almost daily I seem depressed. I feel sad, anxious, and numb all of the time. There is no relief. Like many, I feel as if I am in limbo. I don't have the luxury of a significant other or family who can support me while I work through this. I have really thought hard about going back on an SSRI. The only reason I haven't is because I have read that many times, the damage is done and there is little benefit. But I cannot go on like this. I am destroying my relationships. I won't be able to go through nursing school like this. 

 

I am aware of my thoughts but they are almost impossible to disengage from. I feel like the walking dead. And I'm afraid to talk to any doctor about it because they all look at me as if I'm crazy.

 

My daughter's birthday was today. She asked me to cook something for her instead of taking her to dinner. I haven't cooked in almost 4 years but I wanted to make her happy. It was almost a disaster. I had an actual fire in my skillet and I ruined a pan. I almost overcooked the food and little things kept going wrong. It was all I could do to keep from breaking down. THIS ISN'T ME. I don't let things get to me like this. I am a good cook. But it was as if I forgot how. I had to read and re-read the recipe over and over again. I kept trying to let the thoughts of, "What's wrong with me?" pass through and though I didn't have a total meltdown, I was still incredibly anxious.

 

This isn't like anything I've ever experienced. I don't know how to be around people. I don't know how to talk to people. I'm easily insulted and highly confrontational which, again, isn't me.  Could someone offer some hope? Some suggestions? Something, please?

[mammaP]

Sorry that you are struggling so badly Sara.  It was very brave of you to even attempt to cook a meal

and you did it! You said it was almost a disaster, but it wasn't a disaster. Whatever went wrong you

overcame it and produced a meal for your daughter. That deserves some praise and a huge pat on the

back when you are feeling so bad. I relate to how you are with people and the negativity, I was like that 

for some time when I was on the drugs merry go round and either suffering horrendous side effects or

withdrawal.  I would start a drug to try and combat the withdrawal from another but then there were side

effects that were as bad or worse than withdrawal. 

 

It will get better Sara, it really will. Try and do something different every day, something small. Even just

re arranging a shelf or taking a short walk. Anything, then give yourself some praise for it. Don't beat

yourself up because that' all you did, love yourself for doing it. 

 

You did really well cooking that meal and I for one am very proud of you 

[Sarabellum]

Thank you mammaP.

 

It didn't turn into as big a disaster as it could've been, yes. I mean initially, when my daughter came in, she was so excited and happy but when she saw how overwhelmed and sad I was at trying to cook, her mood instantly changed. I felt terrible because it was her birthday and here I was ruining it. I had forgot to order her birthday present, I forgot to pick up a cake, and now I was ruining her dinner. She asked if she could help and though I hesitated, I had her do a few things while I finished dinner. It was so hard not to drown in thoughts of how overwhelmed I was.

 

There's one other piece in this story - my 20-year-old son came home the night before and asked if he could stay for a few days (or maybe until the end of summer) because he's overwhelmed with what he has going on in his life. He had been living with a roommate during college but when the lease was up, he moved in with another friend and his friend's parents. It's just not a place where he has his own space. And since he doesn't drive (yet) and his job at the university has reduced hours for the summer (10 a week), he's slipping into depression. He has hydrocephalus and some mild brain damage. He is working on learning how to drive but it's going to take time. I worry he's like me in how he deals with his reactions and ability to succumb to anxiety which makes me feel even worse.

 

I really don't want to focus on the negative. I'm really trying but I feel like I need more help.

[Addax]

I am aware of my thoughts but they are almost impossible to disengage from. I feel like the walking dead. And I'm afraid to talk to any doctor about it because they all look at me as if I'm crazy.

I don't mean to sound curt, but why does it matter if the doc looks at you like you're crazy? Or even thinks you're crazy? My guess is that he/she won't because you're not. Some doctors are idiots, but we need to give them a tiny bit of credit sometimes.

Also, I'll bet they have "seen" crazier.

 

Your description of cooking after a 4 year hiatus made me think of the shows, I love Lucy and Seinfeld. Cooking for other people is very anxiety provoking for me. But I've never been a good cook, so the bar isn't very high. Actually, I don't particularly like cooking... Which makes me wonder about your 4-year break from cooking... Do you even like cooking?

 

You write, "this isn't me" regarding cooking, letting things get to you, feeling like you're easily insulted and highly confrontational.

 

First, these things aren't terrible things to "be". But one thing I've noticed in reading your posts is that you are very hard on yourself and I wonder what it would be like for you to apply the standards you hold yourself to to other people. Like that you should be able to prepare and serve up a perfect meal with no help after not cooking for 4 years... That you "should" have to only look at the recipe one time and have it committed to memory and not have to consult the written recipe again.

 

Second, feeling insulted and being confrontational: They are responses to things that are important to you; whether it's what's beings said or how it's being said. Rather than looking at your response, maybe look at the things that elicit those responses and your evaluation of them. I believe in past posts you mentioned being in therapy. These might be worth exploring with your therapist. Same goes for your "should" beliefs. Sometimes we have to look beyond negative thoughts and look at the belief system that support them. Like the belief that you should be able to create the perfect meal, on demand, after looking at the recipe one time, after 4 years of not cooking. THAT is an incredibly high expectation for anyone to meet! This belief perpetuates the "thought" that there is something wrong with you because you didn't execute the scenario perfectly... Which would mean you would think there is something wrong with anyone who didn't meet that expectation? I wholeheartedly believe that there is absolutely nothing wrong with you or anyone else that didn't meet those expectations, and that the majority of people wouldn't meet those expectations, including professional chefs. Cut yourself some slack!

 

These were just my thoughts after reading your last couple posts. I hope I'm not coming across as harsh. You've accomplished a lot, even feeling as badly as you have, don't discount those things.

 

Also, have you ruled out the hormone thing?

[Sarabellum]

I realize I'm hard on myself. It's been an ongoing struggle (with shame) when I'm feeling depressed or anxious.

 

I love cooking. I've always been a good cook but after my daughter moved out and both my son and I got involved heavily into college I didn't cook. I've made small things here and there (think grilled cheese or omelettes) but nothing like 40 clove garlic chicken with Moroccan couscous.

 

Some days the emotions are harder yo manage than others and yesterday was one of them. My son is having a hard time and I want to help him but I'm struggling myself.

 

My biggest issue is trying to sort out what's true and what's not when it comes to the thoughts and to not let the emotion they evoke run me over.

 

Most of the time the thoughts are so fast I can't even consider them. It's total reaction then trying to rein them in after they've hit me square in the gut.

 

Yes the hormones could play into this but again the doctors think I shouldn't be experiencing the anxiety I am and want to push me back on meds. And when I refuse they tell me there's nothing more they can do for me.

 

My emotions feel out of sorts. I don't know I'd what I feel I'd right or not and it's crippling trying to decide what to do because I'm worried I'll make things worse with whatever choice I make.

[Sarabellum]

Has anyone had any luck with 5-HTP? I am wondering if perhaps I should try it.

[mammaP]

I haven't tried 5HTP but there is a thread on it here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/656-5-htp-5-hydroxytryptophan-and-tryptophan/

 

[Sarabellum]

Thanks mammap. I read this earlier but wasn't sure if I should give it a try or not.

 

I'm to the point I can't function and I need to find relief.

 

I'm seeing the obgyn again next week. They are increasing the estradiol to 2 mg.

[Petunia]

If you decide to try it, start with a very small amount at first, but not at the same time as increasing estradiol or you wont know what is effecting you.  I hope you find some relief soon.

[Sarabellum]

Thanks Petu.

 

I started out on .5 mg of estradiol a few months ago and he's gradually increased it.

 

Nothing else makes sense. I should be feeling better the longer I've been off SSRIs and actually, symptoms like brain zaps and tremors are gone. But this waking up every day feeling like I'm going to die isn't getting better. Neither are obsessive thoughts that people I love are going to leave me or the world is going to end.

 

I'm taking fish oil, magnesium, and vitamin D. 

 

I'm trying to find support groups, too.

[Fitby50]

Sara, it appears that you are having some really hard life stress's right now. Stress from school, your boyfriend fight, your son is having issues that give you stressful feelings.  Do you think that you could just be in a really bad wave right now from all of this?  Once you get past some of these things and it calms down, that you would feel better. Do you think when you tapered the Cymbalta & Zoloft you went as slow as 10% a drop, is there a chance you tapered too quickly?  Sometimes when people have CT or tapered too fast, the WD still lingers for 2-3 years longer then what you would expect.  Also, from what I have read on these threads that even when someone has tapered super slowly over 3-4 years, they can still experience some lingering WD for a year after.  I know how hard it is to keep faith that eventually we will start feeling better, cuz I am right there with you myself.  We want to feel better right now and hope to find something anything that will give us the relief we so desperately ache for, but in the end, it may only be "time" that gets us that relief from the agony.  Try to find a way to be gentle with yourself and not do it ALL.  You have to give yourself some rest and let some things go to help lessen the stress.  Decide what are the critical things that need done and let some things slide until later when you are feeling better.  Do more relaxing things for yourself to help manage the stress.  Stress is like a visicous cycle, the more we let things get us down, the bigger the stress grows and it becomes impossible to dig out of the anxiety.  Stress kicks up the cortisol too, which is absolutely the last thing we need.  Wishing today finds you feeling more relaxed and under control.

[Sarabellum]

Thanks fitby50. I'm sure all of what you mention factors in. I was even told I'm the 'perfect storm' of hormones, WD, and life struggles.

 

The chemical stuff seems to exacerbate my deepest insecurities thst normally I could manage. I feel almost entirely out of control. I've turned into a codependent nightmare.

 

My son tells me I need to stop looking for the 'ah-ha!' moment that will motivate me to think differently. I think he's right.

[Fitby50]

That sounds like me as well. Instead it is the slow and steady that wins the race.  Try to practice daily the good thoughts and behaviors  that will make the change for us, This morning is one of those times I am barely hanging on. Trying to just roll with it, not be negative and know that this too shall pass with God's help at my side!

[Sarabellum]

Mornings are rough for me as well.

 

Interestingly enough, the boyfriend and I spent 2 days in Chicago. We camped at a nearby park and did a 15 mile bike ride. It was tense a few times when we were trying to get things together for the ride but we were able to do so without either of us melting down.

 

We got home early this afternoon. I was doing alright for a while then my thoughts started spiraling. I went to a codependents anonymous meeting (I've been to a few in the past) but it felt really weird. I felt like I was watching a movie. My empathy seems to be turned down drastically. I could feel for people talking but not like I used to - not in a relating way. I don't know if I can describe it accurately or not but it really scared me a bit. I started wondering if I have borderline personality disorder. I've been terribly anxious ever since then.

[Petunia]

 I went to a codependents anonymous meeting (I've been to a few in the past) but it felt really weird. I felt like I was watching a movie. My empathy seems to be turned down drastically. I could feel for people talking but not like I used to - not in a relating way. I don't know if I can describe it accurately or not but it really scared me a bit. I started wondering if I have borderline personality disorder. I've been terribly anxious ever since then.

 

Hi Sara,

I can relate to this feeling, is quite common when people are going through withdrawal, don't worry, you don't have BPD.

 

Here are a couple of threads discussing similar experiences:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2267-dissociating-disconnecting-to-cope/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1766-derealizationdepersonalization/

 

Petu.

[Sarabellum]

Thanks petu.

 

I saw a nurse practitioner yesterday and she referred me to a psych nurse practitioner because she feels what I'm suffering from is not hormones since the hot flashes I experience have improved markedly.

 

I just want to wake up and not feel like it's the last day of my life. I haven't felt that in months.

[Sarabellum]

Incidentally, the NP asked if I was bipolar. That didn't set too well with me. I used to wonder if I was bipolar but the therapists and psychiatrists have all said I am not. I don't believe I am. If anything I have general anxiety disorder and I am codependent.

 

The depersonalization i feel is not exactly what the links say. I obsess over the meanings of life and if people feel they have a purpose. What frightens me is that sometimes I have little empathy for people but if someone or something is suffering or struggling I am so empathetic it almost crushes me.

 

I have trouble feeling genuinely happy but sadness and rage are almost out of control.

[Petunia]

The depersonalization i feel is not exactly what the links say. I obsess over the meanings of life and if people feel they have a purpose. What frightens me is that sometimes I have little empathy for people but if someone or something is suffering or struggling I am so empathetic it almost crushes me.

 

I have trouble feeling genuinely happy but sadness and rage are almost out of control.

 

I'm experiencing similar thoughts and obsessions and the same lack of good emotions, but no shortness of the unpleasant ones.  Even though I'm not sure exactly what's going on, it does seem to be a common pattern for some people in withdrawal.  Others have assured me, on my own thread that these are withdrawal effects and that they do get better.

 

My own theory is that going through an experience like this can be extremely traumatic and that in itself can be a catalyst for other changes related to life, values, meanings and growth on deeper levels.  I wish I understood more about this process, but I do believe that ultimately, it has the potential to be a healing one.

 

The consensus here is that strong, overwhelming negative emotion, inappropriate to a situation is neuro-emotion, and not real, but purely an effect of withdrawal.  This is probably true.

 

It helps me to see it as a necessary part of the healing process.  Throughout our years on drugs and perhaps previously via other methods of avoiding our feelings, negative emotions may have become trapped in our body or hidden parts of our mind.  They are coming up now to be felt and released so we can finally be free from them.  I don't know if this is what is actually happening, but it helps me to see it like this.

 

You are not alone in feeling this way, if you read through enough intro threads, like I do, you start to notice the same symptoms and experiences coming up over and over.

[Sarabellum]

Thank you Petu. Yes I have been reading and it does help to know I'm not alone.

 

I'm practicing meditation. I feel better. But I have lots of mixed emotions.

 

One minute I want to be around someone close to me (like my kids or boyfriend) and when I am then I don't want to be. And it scares me.

 

I just keep going.

[Fitby50]

Thank you Petu. Yes I have been reading and it does help to know I'm not alone.

 

I'm practicing meditation. I feel better. But I have lots of mixed emotions.

 

One minute I want to be around someone close to me (like my kids or boyfriend) and when I am then I don't want to be. And it scares me.

 

I just keep going.

I know so exactly what you are talking about. I almost hate being alone it hurts, but then sometimes being around people is so over-stimulating I cannot handle that either, so I can't find the right place sometimes to feel OK.  Being out in nature is probably the best spot but even these days it only feels numb and not nuturing anymore.  I also agree with your earlier post about  " What frightens me is that sometimes I have little empathy for people but if someone or something is suffering or struggling I am so empathetic it almost crushes me. I have trouble feeling genuinely happy but sadness and rage are almost out of control."""  I have had a few days of lots of crying again which I have not had for many months.  And like you said the GOOD emotions I really want are so blunted or numbed, but the bad ones I can feel so intensely.  Knowing that others have these same sensations makes me know for sure it is the drug withdrawl and not just me.  Do you think that as well Sarabellum????  The longer it goes on though, day after day, month after month, it becomes so much harder to hang in there, even though others say it gets better.  We just want to know when? Like if you knew a count down, xx many more days, then maybe it would be more bearable.  I just keep going too, Sara, that is all any of us can do. Minute to minute...day to day!    WE ARE NOT ALONE.

[Sarabellum]

Thank you fitby50.

 

I had a total meltdown today and ended up in the ER.

 

I emailed a friend and vented about the boyfriend. I was complaining about some things he does I feel are self-centered and narcissistic (among other things) and about how mad I can can get. I also said I have learned that my anger stems from issues I have about myself more so than the boyfriend. If I'm critical or judgmental about his behavior chances are, it's because I have those behaviors. Anyway, that email accidentally got sent to the boyfriend and he cannot see it objectively. He broke up with me today because he said he can't trust me.

 

I am devastated. I was at the therapists office when he sent the texts saying he can't deal with me. I melted down and the therapist took me to the ER. They gave me something to calm me down which did nothing more than knock me out. They also gave me a script for welbutrin.

 

I have nothing. I have my kids but that's it. I have 2 weeks to decide if I want to change jobs and do nursing school. And somewhere between August and October, I will have no home. I don't have friends here locally who can help me move. I don't know what to do.

 

The therapist has me coming next week. I'm thinking about doing an intensive outpatient program.

 

Why can't he see I was just venting and the thoughts were not truths? 

[Fitby50]

OMGoodness Sarabellum, I hope today finds you doing better. You have so much on your plate, I don't know how you do it.  Do you have any family you can talk to about your housing options, anyone you can talk things over with to help you make a decision?  I think making decisions of any kind are so hard for me.  Most the time, I just leave everything to my husband.  If I was on my own, trying to get off these meds, I wouldn't make it, I've been too weak lately and would not have the strength.  We are having some hot and humid weather and our AC is not working.  The repair man told us his fix is only temp. and probably looking at a new furnace. We have no money for a huge expense like that. Just something so trivial like that sent me off the deep end.  I'm freaking out and feeling overwhelmed by this problem.  I have NO coping skills anymore and just the littlest things seem so overwhelming.  Break ups are hard no matter how they happen.  Do you think you saw yourself long term with your boyfriend or was this something that was eventually going to happen??  This outpatient program sounds interesting. If you can get some support that will help you get through the rough stuff.  Would your boyfriend be willing to go with you to the therapist, maybe she could help him see that you were only venting to a friend and not attacking him.

[Sarabellum]

I would like to think he could be more objective than this and realize this could be worked through but whether he will or not is anybody's guess.

 

There are issues each of us have I'm our own lives and I sorta feel it's hard for us to support each other because of it. Again I don't know if he agrees or not. Maybe he was looking for a reason to sever the relationship. Maybe not. I'm trying not to think about these things because they make me crazy and I fall apart.

 

I've had self esteem issues most of my life. I was better for a long time but all of this plummeted while going through withdrawal. All of the insecurities resurfaced with a vengeance. I haven't has the psychological support needed to weather this and I feel it's cost me dearly.

 

IOP is an intensive outpatient program. It's possible I may opt for partial inpatient but I'm sorts hoping IOP works because I will miss less time at work. IOP is 3 hours a day. Partial is 6. But if I need partial I'm going to do it. Something has got to give. I've been miserable far too long and what I've been trying to do isn't working. And I'm tired of feeling like every day is my last.

[Fitby50]

I know Sara, it is hard to keep going when we can't see even a glimmer of light at the end of the road. I can only tell myself so many times things will get better, but some days it just does not help.  I wish I could do an IOP.  I guess I should look into some FREE things my local hospitals might have.  I spent 2 hours today at the book store looking thru self-help books.  I think most of my issues are withdrawl, but I too have had self-esteem issues in the past and with my tendency towards negative thoughts, I was hoping to find a book or workbook.  I left wo getting anything.  I have other books I have gotten, read or half-read and didn't really apply them or get any benefit from.  Decided to save my money and look for free things online.  I almost got something on anger.  I seem to have a ton of it lately, but this has never ever been a thing for me in the past, so it has to be the withdrawl.  My temper is so quick and so many little things seem to get me angered.  I need to really work at some meditation or do breathing exercises. The recent bad wave has my body so tense.  I recently read that sauna's, steam baths are really good for stress relief.  Wish I had access to something like that. Might have to make my own in the bathroom.  LOL  

[Sarabellum]

I was put on Wellbutrin (100 mg) by an ER doctor after more or less having a breakdown. I've been on it 2 weeks and I'm more anxious than ever before.

The boyfriend and I have talked a bit and there's been lots of miscommunication. We are going to try and work something out.

 

The problem I'm having is this anxiety. I can't get in to see the psychiatric nurse practitioner for another week. I want to cut the pills in half because I don't think they are helping. I have waves of feeling ok only to cycle back to overwhelming anxiety and the feeling I won't live to see tomorrow.

 

I feel terrible for going back on these things but I was not doing well after being off SSRIs for more than a year. 

[kygirl]

Hi Sarabellum! Don't feel guilty at all. You were suffering for a year! That is along time! We all need to function and there comes a point in time where you have to do something! Sounds like your waves were getting worse:-( I have been on ad's for 7 years and most recently on celexa (bc my body rejected lexapro) and reducing 10 mg over 6 months wreaked havoc on me. I am so sorry you are going through this. It is nothing less than hell on earth. I have never been on Wellbutrin but I have read it makes anxiety worse:-( hopefully, an administrator will come along with advice on next steps.