☼ Wulfgar: insomnia and mirtazapine/zopiclone withdrawal.

[wulfgar]

Tinnitus is a terrible thing! It can trigger anxiety level from zero to 100 in a second at the smallest change. I downloaded the app you mentioned but found only white noise. Must have found the wrong app. Found a 8 hour blue noise at youtube, so i will try that tonight. Do you have a link to the app?

 

Daytime i try to mask with other sounds, like music, turning kitchen fan up, tv noise, radio and also try a little of that hard to do accepting thing.

[moodyblues78]

Sorry. Blue noise and many others are in the full version.

 

With the full version you can also download more sounds for free.

 

http://www.tmsoft.com/iphone-whitenoise.html

[EternalOptimist]

Hi again. Replied to u on my thread.

 

I am so sorry for the tinnitus assault. I am going to ask a couple of my benzo survivor buddies

If anything helped them. I know it got better for them in time,hold on to that. Hope u can find something

To alleviate the intensity.

Be back.

EO

[EternalOptimist]

Hi Wulfgar

How r u now?

Am really feeling cuts today.

I asked my friends c tinnitus...it takes time. Do you hear it in the shower?

[wulfgar]

My tinnitus is quite high, sleep was shallow and with many awakenings. Tired and a little sad. Trying hard not to go down that felling sorry for myself road. Try to distract myself and have noise around me. Shower works. But i do not want water in my ears, as i feel almost like my ears have an infection.

Time seems to be the only possible cure to benzo or ad withdrawal tinnitus. I have started to grasp for straws though, have eaten garlic and zinc. Increased magnesium. Don't know if increasing omega 3 can help with this, so i take my normal dose.

 

Thanks EO for asking your friends for me! (My family is not any help in this, they don't want to hear about my illness no more.)

 

This is a rough spot for sure, but i think i have some fight in me left, so no worries! Other wd symptoms is low, so thats good.

 

Hope you get some sleep EO, its the best counter balance for the wd. I will send tinker bell with some pixie dust straight over to your place in the morning. That would be about right time i think!

[moodyblues78]

Time and acceptance are the cure my friend.

 

You are a fighter with a great sense of humour. I`m glad that I can share this battle with you.

 

I may cry like a baby but I can fight too  

[EternalOptimist]

Wulfgar, oh, I will be looking for Tinker Bell, :-). Thnk u so much.

 

Hold on tight...it DOES get better. The sea is rough right now but our ship is strong and we're headed for calmer waters real soon!

 

Welcome re: asking my benzo surv friends. Some came off ADs too.

 

Peace to you n all here.

[EternalOptimist]

P.S. one friend said that if you hear the ringing in ear in shower , then it's an ear issue, if not, then it's from the med.

Think I got that right.

[bubble]

I'm also sure you two brave viking warriors will beat this!

 

(almost misspelts as worriers, no pun intended

 

your strength arises, among other things, from bravery with which you cry and feel down but go on.

 

Thank u EO from me too. At the moment i'm primarily dealing with my benzo but feel so happy here I don't feel the need for a benzo forum. But some experiences might be useful...

 

Best to all of you,

bubble

[EternalOptimist]

Welcome Bubble. . I'm a Xanax survivor. We do make it.

Best of luck.

EO

[bubble]

thank you EO!

 

It turned out my last awful attempt was a blessing in disguise since it brought me to this forum.

 

Now I also believe I can finally make it after 14 years. Would love to read your Xanax story if you have it somewhere

 

bubble

[EternalOptimist]

My response to your post on my thread:

 

Whazzup w/ that Tinker Bell anyway?

Awaken more often but so far Okish. Maybe T.B. got her act together after all. I'll

Send her back to you. Thnx

Gotta call doc back 4th time this week to get an answer to "will she renew the prescrpt? ". Errrrr

Will be sending warm fluffy clouds of sleep and relaxation to you.

[EternalOptimist]

Bubble...will post on your thread.

[btdt]

Popped in to see how u r doing. You're hanging in there. Good news. My tx suggested a YouTube qi gong 7 min exercise.

I did it last night. It is VERY mild. Wonder if might help u?

Love this thanks for sharing

[EternalOptimist]

Checking in 2 c how u r doing W. Hope u r having a decent or Okish time. EO

[wulfgar]

Had a litle better night this last one. Otherwhise my tinnitus have been high and has disrupted my sleep amolst had me reinstate. I got one ok night so there could be a hint of better times. Other sx exept low motivation/drive is low so, thats good. The exhaustion from to little sleep have me in a dont want to do anything state.

Thank you EO for dropping by!

Im couunting days like a person in a isolation cell right now, hoping for better days. There is 15 days left till one month of. Thats my first goal. Might not be droping by as often till then.

[EternalOptimist]

Well, good for a little better night's sleep last night. I understand counting the days, better than weeks, months or years .

It WILL get better. Only way out , is through! Isolation sucks. I am sorry for it. Don't like it myself.

Will check back in few days tho know you might not check in for a bit. Keep the faith.

[btdt]

Had a litle better night this last one. Otherwhise my tinnitus have been high and has disrupted my sleep amolst had me reinstate. I got one ok night so there could be a hint of better times. Other sx exept low motivation/drive is low so, thats good. The exhaustion from to little sleep have me in a dont want to do anything state.

Thank you EO for dropping by!

Im couunting days like a person in a isolation cell right now, hoping for better days. There is 15 days left till one month of. Thats my first goal. Might not be droping by as often till then.

I am curious if your still supplementing vit D3?

[wulfgar]

Yes, I'm taking d3-50 by bio tech. 50000 IU once every eight days now. Thats about 6250 IU per day. Im expecting a slow reduction in my vitamin d levels at this dose and planing for a check in a week to see where I'm at. I want to get stable at about 65 ng/ml (160 nmol/l ). I had problems taking even 300 IU in the beginning, it making me more anxious and gave insomnia. Now i usually sleep better on the day i have the 50000 pill. I take it in the morning though.

 

I will be taking vitamin d for the rest of my life. It is my firmest conviction that low vitamin d levels is the cause/trigger for almost all the modern day illnesses (cancer, heart diseases, ms, als, adhd/add, rheumatism, autism, etc) . New illnesses are rising today also due to the low nutritional content of modern mass produced foods. This is a more modern problem though. Vitamin d deficiency have been a problem since the industrialization around the beginning of 1900 century.

 

There nutritional deficiencies comes from two factors. We are eating less food due to having less physical life/work and our foods contain less. Some nutrients you need the same amount of no mater how hard you work.

 

I have spent some serious thinking about this. Why my grandparents all lived to be 85-100 years old, but my mother and father is already dead due to the modern illnesses. My grandparents spent lots of time outdoors. The oldest one died at 99 years. Even when old he always went out at noon, sitting on park benches, basking in the sun. (The 99 year old one also smoked and drank regularly and had a sweet tooth.) They ate lots of atlantic herring, trout and salmon, rain dear and elk which all contains more vitamin d than other foods. I heard there where a ban against salmon as food more than 6 days a week for those working with shipping lumber downriver.

 

If you would have tested them when they where in their youth i am certain you would find vitamin d levels at 60-80 ng/ml (150-200 nmol/l) in the summer. In all the old summer photos i have they all had a dark brown tan on arms and face. Also their vitamin d would not drop to low in winter due to all the salted herring and salmon they ate. My grandmother became a school teacher later on in life and she developed RA, which i believe came from diet change and indoor work. Vitamin d deficiency. Modern foods became more available at this time.

 

BT. Sorry for the lengthy reply!

 

Btw, i slept one more ok:ish night. WD hits in so many places its almost maddening. Currently have so much stomach acid its frightening. Woke up last night with acid already in my lungs. Could not take a breath. Managed some how to cough up a little, get down a small amount of air, cough again ... Thank god I woke up, and not drowned in my sleep. That would have been a annoyingly cheap way to go having almost gotten free of the drugs.

[bubble]

thanks for the explanation! it's very interesting.

 

In my case it was my greatgrandparents who lived over 80 because of working and spending time outdoors and eating non-processed food of the region. My grandparents started working indoors and changed theri eating habits which led to their premature deaths in their 50-ies. 

 

My poor father can't count because he committed suicide but my mother is very healthy and has already outlived her mother. It's me who spends much more time then her indoors and with less physical activity ;(

 

I like your theories and you are awfully knowledgeable and humorous even in challenging situations such as this acid ;( but I know you'll find a way of beating it...

 

Will buy vitamin D at the earliest occasion

[EternalOptimist]

Hi W.

Your post recently on Vit D-3 is informative and inspiring, thank .u . I am making sure I keep taking D-3.

I am also investigating iodine as our diets can be deficient in ths n cause health issues.

Hope u r managing decently Wulfgar.

Best EO

[wulfgar]

Yes, i think iodine is very important. I use salt with iodine. Lack of iodine causes thyroid problems. I have problems in finding salt with iodine without anti-caking agents. Most anti-caking agents are quite poisonous (cyanide) under certain circumstances. Thinking of switching to sea salt and get a supplement with iodine for my family instead.

[wulfgar]

Progress report, star-date 11403.08. Tinnitus has lessened to a more manageable level. Sleep have been every other day ok/bad-ish. Its now three weeks from last mirtazapine dose and i am beginning to believe this might work. I have seen some stuff improving. My gallbladder is beginning to function again. The color of "things" is def not white any longer. I have been post dinner tired and actually yawning from real tiredness at 6 pm. Can you believe how good a real "I'm tired yawn" feels? Fantastic!

 

My motivation circuitry is still broken though. Anyone got a spare?

[btdt]

Yes, I'm taking d3-50 by bio tech. 50000 IU once every eight days now. Thats about 6250 IU per day. Im expecting a slow reduction in my vitamin d levels at this dose and planing for a check in a week to see where I'm at. I want to get stable at about 65 ng/ml (160 nmol/l ). I had problems taking even 300 IU in the beginning, it making me more anxious and gave insomnia. Now i usually sleep better on the day i have the 50000 pill. I take it in the morning though. 

 

I am curious of the timeline... when you took vit D in relation to other meds and withdrawal symptoms.

Did you learn you were low in D after having withdrawal symptoms or before?  I have increased negative symptoms of vit D... how can a low dose bother you and high dose not bother that makes no sense to me... how did you go from low to high dose... and stay even a bit sane? 

I plummet in brain power and psych torment goes high when I take Vit D and can't sleep.. anxiety and my system do not mix it feels dangerous to me. 

[wulfgar]

I try to remember as much as possible. In the beginning of 2013 my sleep was very bad as well as i had many as i believe side effects from mirtazapine, zopiclone and theralene. I where checked hormones including vitamin d 2013-03 and the doctors told me all was ok. I had my lab works printed out and discovered myself that i where deficient in vitamin d. Even below 20 ng/ml (50 nmol/l) the evil doctors in my country think its ok. Doing some research on my own i found the vitamin d connection to sleep and all other health aspects.

 

I tried 1000 IU:s and did not sleep, got revved up and anxious. Changed brand and took only 300 IU for a while. Where ok on that. After a few weeks i tried 600 IU and was ok. Had that for about two weeks, i believe, before upping the dose more. About 2013-05 i where up to about 3000 IU:s. I started to sun bath in the late part of 2013-05 so from there on i got much more vitamin d. Still supplemented more and more. En of 2013-06 i had a vitamin d test of 40 ng/ml (100 nmol/l). Where taking about 6000 IU per day then + sun without any side effects. Tested again one month later, still 40 ng/ml. Upped my dose more. Bought the 50000 IU:s an took those every third day. One and a half month later tested for 88 ng/ml. Reduced to take 50000 less often for an average of about 6000 IU:s. Tested a month later at 85 ng/ml. So about 6000 IU:s a day or a little less seems to be the amount i need. Going to test again this week.

 

I believe my sleep got much better when i hit about 40 ng/ml but the improvements where linear, not bang 40 ng/ml and sleep+2. My sleep diary improved with about two hours from the time i started vitamin d to the time i got to about 40 ng/ml. From 1-3 hours to 3-5 hours per night.

 

I don't know for sure which other sx:s or wd:s got better from vitamin d. Quite probably i got benefits in other areas, but i was in such a bad ways because of the lack of sleep and all else, so its hard to tell.

 

I did learn about vitamin d long after first wd:s from the drugs. I where hospitalized 2013-01 because of insomnia, which where withdrawal from mirtazapine and zopiclone and probably also vitamin d deficiency. I where probably deficient in many more nutrients because of indigestion caused by mirtazapine. Foods where coming through me undigested sometimes for weeks. Went to several doctors, not one of them even mentioned the possibility that my drugs where the cause for this. This makes me so angry!!

 

My recommendation to you is to eat fatty fish, a tea spoon of cod liver oil if that works, and some tanning. When the sun gets up to more than 45 degree angle, run out doors, with the smallest amount of clothing possible :-), and get sun on both sides at least 15 minutes on each side. I don't know which latitude your on but it should be possible in most parts of Canada to get the sun above 45 between june and august. In the southern part even a month before and after that.

 

In going from a low dose to high, i did it very slowly, and aided by the sun.

 

I hope i answered some of your questions. Hope it helps. I wish my diary where in better shape but i was in a bad ways then.

 

Regards

Wulfgar

[btdt]

Yes you did answer my questions.  Thank you.  It does seems I get reactions from Vit d I am not prepared to live with as there is no living with them.  I think I will leave it alone for now and just do the tanning for a bit... I think it is the safest way to try to build up my system as I do trust my body even tho it i has been damaged to figure out what to do with sun.. and vit D. 

This is what I have done in the past followed my bodies lead and for some reason it does not life Vit D to be ingested just yet anyway.  Fish I can do and will do and tan. 

After tanning yesterday I was in bed early for a change and did sleep 3-4 hours without waking I tend to sleep in 2-3 hour intervals.  Often napping for 10 minutes out of an hour during the day when fatigue takes over. 

[wulfgar]

Feeling somewhat depressed today. Lots of bad news. My doctor wants me to take blood pressure medication due to my blood pressure being to high when I'm up. Sitting or standing its averages 150/110. When i lay down its ok:ish. All blood pressure medications are orthotoxic and can cause aggravation of tinnitus and hearing loss. If i get more tinnitus than i already have I'm not sure i can cope. Any knowledge about meds for blood pressure that don't cause tinnitus is appreciated!

 

Also, the antihistamine i have been taken (theralene/alimemazine), I have found out after my own research, is not only an antihistamine. It has "weak to moderate affinity for the 5-HT2A, 5-HT2C, D2, and α1-adrenergic receptors, where it acts as an antagonist" . So i am still on antidepressant medication and I need to taper this stuff slower than i thought earlier. God damn!

 

Sorry all, but i cant find anything humorous in this right now. This has really put me down!

[compsports]

Hi Wulfgar,

 

I am in the same situation as I might need blood pressure medication.   Wow, I knew that some blood pressure meds were ototoxic but I didn't know all of them were.   Do you have a link for that since I also have a hearing loss and tinnitus?

 

Meanwhile, you might want to check out this excellent article on using non meds to deal with high blood pressure which comes up near the end of it.

 

http://www.lef.org/protocols/heart_circulatory/high_blood_pressure_01.htm

 

I totally understand you feeling down in light of all your struggles.  Hang in there.

[btdt]

I had the bp issues the same when I was still on Effexor they gave me Verapamil... and a few other things.  When I quit Effexor I quit that too and a few other things.  Once I finally found a withdrawal site 8 months later I learned they were using antihistamines to treat insomnia.  I researched antihistamines at that site then... and learned antihistamines were the base drug from which all antidepressants came. I did use one to sleep when I had been days without sleep at 1/4 the dose I found tho I did sleep some I felt I was set back in my withdrawal progress... would back slide for awhile. That is how it felt.  I read further that some people are addicted to antihistamines they can throw off brain chemistry in people who over use them. I maybe used them three times at small doses to sleep during my entire withdrawal process.  

As for the bp I did research on that too and found what I was having was something like POTs like you I seemed mostly ok laying down generally getting up would spike my bp.  I had this while still on Effexor too think I was in tolerance. 

Gradually it improved until this car accident last year and the bp issues popped back up.  

That is what I can add to this conversation I am sure there are others that understand the effects of the brain better than I when it comes to the details I get lost. I know others get tho and I am sure they will be by to help you out in your understanding. 

 

The bp fluctuations sure add to the feeling of not being well I hope you find a gentle way to get thru this and taper sounds like the best plan. It is understandable the way you feel there will be many stages thru withdrawal that bring you down... I hope few but we all know they are there.  These things pop up and we learn and overcome them one by one. Knowledge is power and as we gain knowledge we can apply we increase our weapontry guess that is not a word.  The battle continues now you know and you can do something about you are actually further ahead than you were before you knew. Try to think of it this way it may help you to get on with it. 

peace that is what we are shooting for. 

[mammaP]

I'm sorry you have this setback Wulfgar.  I would be very reluctant to start another medication too.

Last year I had an episode when I felt really ill and my BP shot to around 220/118 . The doctor gave

me very low dose of a BP drug and I took just one pill, it made me really sick. My bp went down again

on it's own. The last thing I wanted was another drug and I can understand why you are feeling down.  

Thankfully for me it was the right decision not to take the new drug. 

Do you have a BP monitor? I have a wrist one which is good and can see a pattern when I check it

regularly.  As long as it goes down again at some time in the day I'm not going to worry about it! 

[btdt]

I too tried a very low low low dose of a bp med since this car accident and took one pill.  That was it for me.  I don't know what it would take to get me on any drug I had to take every day... but it is not bp.  my pb has been over 200 and then goes down as low as 118 still not sure what that is about... it seems to come in bouts post accident... It may well have set off something old.  Not sure. 

I know when I had the POTs due to withdrawal then too my bp was over 200 and it gradually went down to the 140 160 area... some doctors want to treat this ... I just say that is good for me. Other maybe that would be a bad bp...for me that is good considering where I have been. 

Before the pooped out on E my bp was 118 always... even when pregnant

[btdt]

I truly think we have a new normal... our bodies will figure out what that is in time... I could be wrong but I tend to let my body lead me as long and as far as it can take me... there is some smarts inside us we have been here as a species for a long time wisdom is in there.  Human bodies have never before had to heal from such things as these drugs so it is taking some time for our bodies to sort it out but it does know how to heal this better than any doctor I have seen yet.

[moodyblues78]

Hi Wulfgar.

 

Keep in mind that withdrawal elevates blood pressure.

 

Mine was 141/84 a while ago while I was relaxed. Stess and anxiety add to this immediately. When I got home today from work mine was 159/105. I was stressed and anxious.

 

I`m planning on giving my bicycle some pain..

[bubble]

I just have to tell you that we like you, appreciate you and think you are absolutely great even when your amazing spirit finds nothing humorous in the battles you're fighting.

[moodyblues78]

http://www.morningsideparkchronicle.com/5420/20086/a/a-drug-free-approach-to-lower-blood-pressure

 

Dietary and lifestyle choices are key factors in the prevention and control of hypertension. In addition to following doctor’s orders, discuss and incorporate some of the following into your daily self-care plan.

DASH Diet: The NHLBI promotes the DASH diet (Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension), which has been proven to lower blood pressure and cholesterol. It is high in fruits and vegetables, low- or non-fat dairy, whole grains and fiber. The DASH diet is also rich in potassium, calcium and magnesium. For recipes, menus and more information, visit
http://www.dashdiet.org.

Dr. Weil recommends the following nutritional measures: • Eat eight to 10 servings of vegetables and fruit per day. • Limit animal protein to six ounces per day. • Limit salt intake. If you are salt sensitive or have a family history or hypertension, reducing salt to about one teaspoon a day may help control your blood pressure.

• Use garlic. It has a modest effect on blood pressure, potentially helping to relax blood vessels.

• Consume four to five servings
of nuts, seeds and dry beans per week. This is equivalent to two tablespoons of nuts or seeds, or 1/2-cup cooked dried beans.

• Eat plenty of fish. Include at least three servings of fish a week, emphasizing cold-water fish such as wild Alaskan salmon and sardines, which are rich in omega-3 fatty acids. Take fish-oil supplements if you cannot get enough omega-3-rich foods.

• Take calcium and magnesium. Inadequate intake of both of these minerals has been associated with high blood pressure. Women should get between 1,000 and 1,200 mg of calcium a day from all sources, while men need no more than 500-600 mg daily from all sources and probably do not need to supplement.

• Take vitamin C. This antioxidant vitamin has been shown to lower blood pressure in people with mild to moderate hypertension.

Exercise: Aerobic activity strengthens the heart, enabling it to pump more blood with less pressure. Exercise also helps maintain a healthy weight, reducing obesity which is a risk factor for high blood pressure. Aim for at least 30 minutes of aerobic activity each day. This may include walking, jogging, swimming or household chores like raking leaves, mowing the lawn or scrubbing/mopping floors. If you are unable to do 30 minutes at one time, break activities into three 10 minute sessions and get the same benefit.

Deep Breathing: Dr. Weil says, “If I had to limit my advice on healthier living to just one tip, it would be simply to learn how to breathe correctly.” Deep breathing lowers blood pressure, increases energy levels, promotes better sleep, helps break down salt, promotes weight loss and relieves stress and tension. Deep breathing exercises can be done anywhere at any time. The goal is to slow your breathing to less than 10 breaths per minute. Inhale for six seconds, hold for 18 seconds, exhale for 12 seconds. Repeat 10 times, twice daily (try it upon rising and
before bedtime).

Reduce Sodium: Most sodium is consumed as sodium chloride, known as table salt. NHLBI recommends a daily sodium intake of 1 teaspoon or less. This includes sodium or salt found in processed foods (read labels), table salt added to foods, Kosher salt and sea salt. Keep your combined daily intake below 2300 milligrams. Use deep breathing twice daily to help break down and eliminate salt from your body.

Limit Alcohol: For weight and blood pressure control, limit alcohol to one moderate drink daily for women, and two drinks daily for men. A drink is 12 ounces of beer, five ounces of wine or 1.5 ounces of 100 proof whiskey, etc.

Quit Smoking: Smoking injures blood vessel walls and accelerates the hardening of arteries. This applies to filtered and unfiltered cigarettes. If you smoke, quit. If you don’t smoke, don’t start. Regular doctor’s visits, compliance with doctors’ orders, a heart healthy diet and common sense goes a long way in the fight against high blood pressure.

[Altostrata]

Have you had these blood pressure issues for a long time?

 

Withdrawal syndrome can cause blood pressure problems that mimic postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), a dysautonomia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postural_orthostatic_tachycardia_syndrome

 

I had this for a couple of years, my blood pressure went up 20 or 30 points. Eventually, it went back to normal by itself.

 

If this is something that's come on with your withdrawal difficulties, you might ask the doctor to "wait and see" before taking daily medication for blood pressure.

 

Acupuncture can be good to lower blood pressure and heart rate.

 

Also, how much magnesium are you taking?