☼ Wulfgar: insomnia and mirtazapine/zopiclone withdrawal.

[wulfgar]

Thank you all for your support and ideas! Much appreciated!

 

Yes alto, i have read up on POTS and my symptoms is quite similar. Heart rate elevates 30 bpm upon sitting and standing along with the blood pressure. Dizzyness also when up. Feel fine directly when down.

 

Im taking 1830 mg magnesiumcitrate which gives about 300 mg magnesium once per day. I also take 250 mg calcium, q10, zink and a small amount of vitamin c.

[Altostrata]

You may wish to take smaller doses of magnesium frequently throughout the day.

[wulfgar]

Ok, will try that. Thanks!

[EternalOptimist]

Hi W.

Sorry for what u r going thru. Getting thru can be so challenging. Hope u taking mag thru out the day, if u do, helps u to manage the

Discomfort/Sx much better,

EO

[mammaP]

Hi Wulfgar, hope you are feeling a little better today. 

[wulfgar]

I feel a bit better today. I am wrestling with what to do in regards to my blood pressure. I have decided to lose the 12 kg i have gained since starting this meds craze and aim for half a kilo per week. Maybe lose a bit more than 12, because i have lost a lot of muscle these last years (replaced by fat). I have reduced weight this way before and now that i almost are not taking any antihistamines and of psych meds it should be possible. I have found reaserch indicating that some people get up to one unit drop in blood preasure for each kilo of weight lost. Hope I'm one of those people.

 

I'm going to follow some of MB:s advices to. Garlic for sure! Love that in food.

 

Also going to go to a taning bed two or three times per week for short sessions (5 minutes). Read lots about that UVA causes nitrite and nitate to convert to nirtric oxide in the body. Nitric oxide causes vasodilation and lowers blood pressure. Also get "natural" vitamin d. UVA/UVB also releases the bodys own happy drugs, endorphins. I could realy use a load of those right now!!

[EternalOptimist]

Nice to read you are a bit better today.  Hope it holds and improves from here.  

Garlic is great, good luck with that.

Is there much sunshine there in the Nordic these days?
EO

[wulfgar]

I live very far north. Sun is not shining much and when it does it's usually not above 45 degrees. In the southern parts of the nordic region you can get vitamin d from sun for about 3-4 months.

[wulfgar]

In February we had zero sun hours. Totally cloudy. In december-january the sun don't rise much, so its twilight at best. I have seen the sun one day this month. It was yellow, wow! I sometimes think i live on another planet. I long for a better place, but I'm stuck here because of family reasons.

San francisco... Hm... Are you maried? ... Just kidding 

[bubble]

wulfgar, I see the humour is back

 

we have more sun here as well so you don't have to consider San Francisco only

[mammaP]

The sun is on it's way Wulfgar, the long summer days when it doesn't get dark....

I love those days here in Scotland, they just don't last more that a few short weeks.

They are definitely coming though, and the tulips are out now, bluebells next  .

[EternalOptimist]

I live very far north. Sun is not shining much and when it does it's usually not above 45 degrees. In the southern parts of the nordic region you can get vitamin d from sun for about 3-4 months.

How do people in general in your arwa, tolerate the lack of sun? Dx of SAD popular there?

We're severely dry here so now's not a good time in S.F. Area.

 

Wulfgar, re: coming off mitrazapine , did your head sx worsen few weeks off? Pressure is severe and last few days have head equilibrium disturbances. Dont want to go back on. Thnx

 

May the sun shine on you!

[lobster]

Just stopping in to see how you are making out. Hoping you are feeling well :-)

[wulfgar]

Hi all,

Im a bit better in regards to wd symptoms and tinnitus is quite low in my right ear so thats good. The blood pressure thing is a big weight on my shoulders though!

 

Lobster: Thank you for asking! Hope you are doing as good as possible also!

 

EO: About the head pressure thing. I don't know if we have the same symptoms describing them differently or if they are dissimilar. I usually get worse symptoms a week to a few weeks after each drop. For me its a dizzy mind fog kind of a thing. Like the brain is not working. Heavy head feel. Also got visual flashes like someone is turning the brightness on a tv up and down real fast. Some brain zaps, like electricity. I have also had aches and pain in my cranium and teeth, like it has shrunk or something. The dizzy mind fog gets better when i lay down. I also have some problems with sinuses and ears hurting. Could it be that your sinus cavities gets swollen an plugged by antihistaminic adverse effects of mirtazapine?

 

SAD: there are many around me that are more or less depressed jan-apr due to lack of light. Its a big problem.

[Rhiannon]

I have friends who get depressed every winter even here in Oregon, and we're not really all that far north.  For me, using the therapy lights seems to prevent the SAD, but I miss the feel of sun on my skin.  It's been much sunnier lately but still too cold to really bare the skin!

 

We've just passed the spring equinox, which for us is the time when days and nights are the same length. Are you getting sunshine yet?

 

I really just stopped by your thread to say hello and wish you well--so, hello!

[wulfgar]

Hi Rhi,

Nice of you to drop by! Thank god that the equinox is the same date all over the globe! It has been a bit sunny outdoors today, and i where out trying to get lots of it to reach my Pineal gland. Think it might be hard because i imagine it is all shriveled up like a raisin from lack of use inside my head. Sun is just up about 20 degrees right now so not much warmth yet. It still made me feel more positive though.

 

I was thinking earlier about getting a SAD lamp. I think i ended up being unsure if i should buy a blue light or ordinary light one. Those small portable battery driven blue light diod ones seemed very nice. I could us at the office also in the middle of the day.

 

This winter i ended up putting several aquarium light ramps agains a wall sitting before them. Did that a few weeks. Felt a little better. Wife thought me mad though. Then came those big guys offering me i white shirt all of a sudden. I said the sleeves seems to long...

[mammaP]

Lol, white shirt with long sleeves , that made me laugh out loud  .

 

I love my sad light, it makes a huge difference for me. I don't function in winter without it! 

Well worth the expense 

[EternalOptimist]

Thanks WG for answering my question on head pressure. Seems we've different symptoms there cept for the mutual heavy head.

Light is quite bothersome first thing in the morning.

Best

EO

[Hopefull]

Wulfgar,

 

If you are getting fast heart rate while standing and feeling dizzy, drink electrolytes, such as coconut water or sport drinks that have electrolytes. That should help. All the best.

[wulfgar]

Hi Hopefull,

Nice to hear from you! Yes, i will try to add more of a god electrolyte drink that had the right balance again. My dizziness and heart rate is much better now though since coming of mirtazapine and zopiclone. When i stand up my heart rate increases by only 15-20 bpm now to maybe 85-90 bpm so thats much better. I have been diagnosed with high blood pressure, so getting the right balance of electrolytes might do some good for that as well.

 

Hope you are doing better, Hopefull!

 

Regards

Wulfgar

[Hopefull]

Hi Wulfgar,

 

Yes, I am doing better. I hope electrolytes help you. Coconut water is really good as it contains natural electrolytes. Cheers! 

[moodyblues78]

 

This winter i ended up putting several aquarium light ramps agains a wall sitting before them. Did that a few weeks. Felt a little better. Wife thought me mad though. Then came those big guys offering me i white shirt all of a sudden. I said the sleeves seems to long...

 

I`m glad we have this wulfgar back! Humour is one of our strongest weapons. Happy to hear from you again my viking friend.

[wulfgar]

Same! Back with a vengance now! Had a 7.5 hour uninterrupted sleep two days back. Dont know what i did to get that. Felt like superman during the day, did not pace myself enough though so the next night was broken. I have examined my diary but no clues there. Well, on good night, might get an other one soon i hope. Otherwhise i average about 5.5 hours so thats quite good.

 

Another good thing. I entered all my sleep hours in excel for the last month and made a least square fit and got a line thats positive with an increase of about .5 hours per month. Made a 2 degree curv fit and that was even slightly more positive when extrapolating.

 

Also read up on CFS and the Rich and Freddd protocol. I dont think i have full blown CFS but i sure have some similar symptoms. Started a small dose of methylB12 in the morning and methylFolate in the evening. Gives lots of more energy during the day i think. Took to much B12 one day and got insomnia in the evening. First day some anxiety for a few hours. Now only mild caffeine like effect. Wakes me up in the morning sort of. Do not get the same adverse effect as when taking a normal b vitamin supplement. Much softer.

 

I am definitely in a window right now. Body is full of energy. Mind is not though, but still ok. Nice to feel that okish body feel. Im not going to measure any blood pressure right not. To h with that. Im going to enjoy this right now!

[Hopefull]

Hi Wulfgar,

 

I hope you don't  mind me asking, but if I am taking 7.5mg of Mirtazapine, and have been on it for 2 months, how long would it take to get of it? How much would you take? How long do you stay on the lower dose before reducing the dose again? Thank you.

[wulfgar]

Hi Hopefull,

I don't mind you asking. Its difficult to answer though. There are many factors influencing the rate which you can taper. Previously taken antidepressants and benzo. How well you are right now maters. The rule of thumb is 10% per month and increase the pace if WD:s is low. Are you currently taking anything else? Seroquel? Benzo?

 

If i remember correctly from your intro thread you have previously been on a much higher dose of mirtazapine. The reduction to 7.5 mg you have done earlier contains clues as to how fast you can taper. How much did you reduce in how many months? How did you feel?

 

As an example: If you have gone from 15 to 7.5 in say two months, i would suggest then to go half that rate for the rest as coming of the last bit is harder. So plan for 4 months, 4 tapers. 5,5mg, 4mg, 2.5mg, 1mg. You need to write a diary with how you feel and sleep and evaluate at the end of each month how you felt. Slow the taper down if you feel to bad. I would not recommend going faster than 4 months even if you tapered/reduced faster previously. Slow minimizes your risk of ending up in a wd crisis. A wd crisis with big-time insomnia etc is very hard to recover from! Remember that < 7.5 mg i a low dose which does little harm. Tapering to fast can definitely do harm!

 

Read up on mirtazapine side effects and others wd symptoms so that you can recognize whats what in your diary.

 

It would be very helpful if you could enter your drug history in your signature! Easier to give advice. Remember that we are not here to judge you for your choices. We have, i think all of us, made some bad judgment calls. For me, worst of all where taking the meds in the first place. I have been through so much badness because of these drugs that my problems prior feels like just a sunny walk in the park.

[Rhiannon]

Wulfgar, glad to see you're feeling better! The shirt with long sleeves made me laugh out loud too! Actually reading books on SAD I did read about a woman who put lights in a room all around her so she could just sit inside them and soak up the light.

 

Hopefull, maybe you can post your questions about tapering in your own thread...? Otherwise it's likely to, as we say, "hijack" Wulfgar's thread.  Wulfgar and anyone else you'd like advice from can come over to your "place."

 

Wulf, I envy your facility with Excel. Just a beginner myself but maybe someday...

[wulfgar]

Hi Rhi,

 

I do feel better. This weekend was awesome! Almost my old self. (Except for all the extra weight and muscle loss and blood pressure and ...) Went for a run/walk, 3 km and ran 8 light posts in total. Overreached i think a bit though so today a feel a bit exhausted. Maybe a bit and a slice. Maybe i overreached the whole cake? No mater, I felt so great! I thought to start my "start running gradually schema" running one light post more each week mixed with walking. Starting at 8 was probably to much though!

 

Feel a bit guilty feeling that good when there is so much suffering! I hope its ok that i write about it? Oh, and me feeling good/great is really more like not feeling ill. But not feeling ill is sort of feeling great right now... Strange isn't it how ones perspective has changed.

 

Windows to all, I'm buying!

[moodyblues78]

Hi Wulfgar.

 

About your blood pressure. How many times do you eat per day?

 

My mother-in-law was able to half her blood pressure medication by eating small meals every couple of hours instead of 2 big meals per day.

[wulfgar]

Could be worth a try. I eat only three meals right now, lunch, dinner and a small evening meal/snack. I came in to this rhythm after being so terribly unwell on high dose mirtazapine. Was the most unwell in the mornings. I will add a small breakfast and something smaller at afternoon and see how it goes. Its hard to eat many times and keep calories low at the same time.

A problem though is that i weigh absolutely to much right now, and i need to reduce my weight also for the sake of my blood pressure. Gained lots of weight because of mirtazapine. I remembered puking, passing food undigested and being nauseous and still gaining weight.

[Hopefull]

Hi Wulfgar,

 

Thank you for your reply. I have only been taking Mirtazapine for little bit over 2 months. I was originally on 15mg but because I am sensitive to AD's had to cut down to 7.5mg. The doctor did not tell me to taper down slowly. I also quit Seroquel cold turkey as I was having bad reactions. I did have about 3 episodes of being awoken at night with adrenaline rush to my head. And I also had hallucinations twice at night when I stopped taking Seroquel cold turkey. I am supposed to stay on this for 6 months to 1 year and someday I want to quit because I have gone from 62kg to almost 65kg. I know that is not too much weight gain but it is bothering me because I never had weight issues.  I have noticed that I am getting swollen ankles and wrists since I have started mirtazapine. I also get hot very easily. I am feeling so much better now, someday I feel like stoping the medication.  So does that mean if you have been on it for over 2 months it may take up to 4 months to slowly get of the medication? And also, someone in my family has problems with high blood pressure, and it was recommended to drink pomegranate juice about 2 glasses (1/2 litre a day), and 2 red apples a day, along with her blood pressure medication. Do some research on pomegranate juice. I hope it helps. Glad things are getting better for you. Sorry if I am getting a bit annoying in regards to natural remedies!

[mammaP]

Hi Rhi,

 

I do feel better. This weekend was awesome! Almost my old self. (Except for all the extra weight and muscle loss and blood pressure and ...) Went for a run/walk, 3 km and ran 8 light posts in total. Overreached i think a bit though so today a feel a bit exhausted. Maybe a bit and a slice. Maybe i overreached the whole cake? No mater, I felt so great! I thought to start my "start running gradually schema" running one light post more each week mixed with walking. Starting at 8 was probably to much though!

 

Feel a bit guilty feeling that good when there is so much suffering! I hope its ok that i write about it? Oh, and me feeling good/great is really more like not feeling ill. But not feeling ill is sort of feeling great right now... Strange isn't it how ones perspective has changed.

 

Windows to all, I'm buying!

This is fantastic to read Wulfgar, don't feel guilty, you deserve a good window!  And please do tell us all about it,

it's always good to see someone doing well, it gives hope to everyone else.  It really is good to see Wulfgar back 

on form 

[EternalOptimist]

Congrats for the Window Wulfgar, how wonderful is that. Sucks when they close but one day that window will be your "normal".  

[wulfgar]

Hi Hopefull,

 

I have replied in your intro thread. Im following your thread, se you there!

 

Regards

Wulfgar

[wulfgar]

Hi all,

 

Short update. Still have a windowish kind of not feeling bad and quite symptom free. My sleep is a little less good, about 5 hours but its manageable. I takes forever to get to sleep, probably due to increased activity level (stress). Feeling better is a stressor as well 

 

/Wulfgar

[btdt]

Are you still taking Vit D?  Maybe it is time to lower it some as this is what D does to me I know you had a great result with it but from where I sit I suspect it.  Can't help it experience has my twisted  

I can stop and start D3 all day long year after years still has the same effects on me. 

If you D is high enough now maybe lowering the supplement would help.   Just a thought from the left field. 

[btdt]

I wonder if D can turn paradoxical like benzos did to me in the past? interesting thought.