Hopefull: suffering from PGAD

[Hopefull]

Maybe I will try. I have been feeling really bad lately. I just wish I never took any AD's in the first place.  I feel so trapped.  For a while there I was feeling better and now I feel not so good.  I am up and down like a yo-yo.  I still hope that there is a way out of this mess.

[Hopefull]

Is that doctor any good?

[chicken]

Hopefull,

Have you starting tapering the mirtz yet?

[Petunia]

Is that doctor any good?

 

I don't know, I've never seen him, but acetyl has been seeing him via skype and has written about his experience in his thread here:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6089-acetyl-asenapine-saphris-withdrawal-hell/

[Altostrata]

I have faith in Dr. Purssey.

[Hopefull]

Hi Chicken, Petu and Alto,

 

I had a look through acetyl's thread, I did not read the whole thing and Dr Purssey seems ok. I have lost trust in doctors after what happened to me. I don't blame the doctor who prescribed AD to me, because I asked for it. But I found after I suffered horrible side affects there was lack of care and information provided by my doctor. I am still angry that I went against my gut instinct not to take the medication, but I went ahead anyway thinking that it will cure me from panic disorder. I still review how I was before the medication and wish that I could turn back the clock. I have not been the same person ever since. I wish I never took mirtz, but at the time I was so desperate and far gone, I had to do something about it. It really makes  me sad when I read how other people are going through difficult times because of AD's. It really helps me to share my experience with others, because you would have some understanding of what I and other people are going through. I can't express how I feel to people around me because I don't want to burden them with my problems. Chicken, I have not started tapering off mirtz yet, but I think about it every day. I hate being on it, but I am scared to get off it. Mirtz help to take the edge of anxiety and helps me to sleep but that is about it. Sometimes it makes me feel worse and I have crying spells. I don't know what happened, I was feeling much better and now I feel not so good. Chicken, how are you going with everything? I have found a new psychologist to help me, hopefully I will be able to get back to "normal", through CBT. Petu, thank you for your input and Alto. When I am ready I will try to get of the mirtz, right now so much is going on. God bless you all!

[chicken]

Hopefull,

You are in the same boat as I. I'm scared to stay on it and scared to get off. If I make it through the initial withdrawal I'm scared of the late onset symptoms that could appear and those according to Dr. Shipko and Breggin may be permanent.

 

My anxiety has gotten better since I started taking Magnesium.

I see my new doctor on the 7th. I will discuss Dr. Shipko's view with him and see what he says. He has trained under Dr. Breggin so I'm sure he's aware of the late onset symptoms that could be permanent. But, I'm only 43. I don't want to stay on this med for the rest of my life either. What if I lose my job and can't get the med. I sure don't expect medicare and SS to be there when I get old.

[chicken]

Hi Hopeful,

Believe it or not I actually called Dr. Shipko today and he returned my call. He is very nice.

 

He said that he has no experience with Remeron so he doesn't know how to advise me. He said to work with my doctor and taper very slowly and see how it goes.

I asked him about the akethisia. He said that it is a risk and that some people don't appear to get over it. I asked him about the suicide rate with it and he said that some do kill themselves. I know this is doom and gloom but I'm weighing all my options.

 

He says that the worst cases are those with over 10 years on SSRIs. I told him that I was on Prozac for about 10 years and now I've been on Remeron for 2.5 years. He says that all of this is cumulative and the risk is always there. He said that he has never had anyone come in that was trying to wean off Remeron. He says that there is just so little information on all the long term affects of these drugs.

[Altostrata]

chicken, you realize your fear of akathisia is irrational, correct?

[Hopefull]

Hi Chicken,

 

I really appreciate your input. I completely understand you. I am couple of years younger than you, and I feel the same way. I don't want to stay on medication for the rest of my life. Why did you switch from Prozac to Rameron? I read your thread as it gives me some comfort that I am not going insane. I felt really good for a while and now I am slowly getting worse. I know I am repeating my self like a broken record, but I can't express how I feel to the people around me. No one can understand you, unless they are in the same boat. I  have only been on ad's a short time, but I am getting worse. The last week or so, I wake up with this dreadful feeling and I don't know how to explain it in words. At first I got it after 3-4 hours taking the medication, and last night after 30min/1 hour. It does not even feel like a normal panic attack. I feel that the medication is having a paradoxical affect. I want to get of Mirtz, it but I am scared how worse I will feel. I feel so trapped I don't know which way to turn. I am already scared that the medication has permanently damaged my brain. Everyday I wake up and think what the meds are doing to me, emotional, physically and how much I have changed as a person since last November. I don't really feel that much joy, I am constantly plagued with anxiety about everything. I have lost a lot of security. As I am typing my head feel weird like pins and needles in my head.  I just don't feel like me. I have so much to live for but I have so much anxiety that sometimes my suicidal thoughts come back. I don't want the thoughts in my head. But I am still trying to be hopeful. Chicken, I completely understand that you have a fear in regards to akathisia, but you also realise that people with anxiety, including my self can catastrophise everything. You don't know for sure if you are going to get akathisia, you most likely will not.  How is your anxiety now?

[chicken]

My anxiety got so out of control I had to go back into the stabilization center. My doc upped the mirtzs to 30mg, the tranxene (3.75mg) to 3x a day and 50mg of seroquel.

It's about a week later and I'm off the seroquel.

 

I would wake exactly 5 hours after the mirtz no matter what. I have stablelized some and sleep a little longer than 5 hours sometimes. The tranxene helps with the anxiety.

I'm now down to 22.5 mirtz and 3.75 tranxene 3x a day.

 

My pdoc said he would put me in the hospital and change the mirtz to something else if that is what I really wanted. I told him my anxiety was all about the mirtz and nothing else. I don't know if it is wise to change up. I just read through 107 pages of a mirtz withdrawel thread at the bb forum. There is so little success coming off mirtz.

 

I see the pdoc again tomorrow. I may let him put me in the hospital but I told him there is no way i'm coming of mirtz cold turkey like they tried to do in the crisis stabilaztion center. They tried me on lexapro and I rejected it after one dose. I told him no more SSRIs.

 

Angel over on bb was one of the ones who sucessfully got of mirtz but she had to cross taper to effexor. I don't really want to touch effexor.

 

I finally saw Dr. Johnson. He says he has good success with getting people of A/Ds but has never tapered anyone off of Remeron. That dashed my hopes a little. He doesn't know much about it. I spoke with Dr. Shipko and he says he's never tapered anyone off Remeron. I may try to cross taper to something else. Anything but Remeron. I hear some of the old trycyclics are easier to get off of than these new ones.

 

Dr. Johnson says his worst cases are those on effexor, pritiq and paxil. Dr. Johnson said that I and only on other of his patients was this scared about getting of a med. Even he told my mom when I went out of the room that I needed to be more stable in order to taper. I don't know if I'll ever be stable because all I ever think about is the drugs and that's it. I hate that my benzo was upped but what can I do for now. Benzos don't scare me a much a remeron.

 

I will pray that the Lord will give my regular PDoc wisdom. I may switch to something else and taper it I don't think my doc really knows what to do with me anymore. He wanted me to try Brintellex, brand new SSRI just approved this year. No way am I trying a new drug. Who knows what the effects of that could be. A drug needs to be out a number of years before I touch it.

 

Mom thinks I'm going to crack up over this. I just read all day on the internet about it. She says she is so tired of hearing about this drug.

I think I'm depressed now as I have no interest in anything any more. I went to the car show last night and though about withdrawal and the drug some while I was there. I can hardly laugh anymore. I don't seem to have many emotions. I told my pdoc that ever since I tried the cold turkey from May of this year I haven't felt quite right anymore but I think a lot of it was my own anxieties and reading all this bad stuff. I'm my own worst enemy sometimes.

 

I told my mom tonight, and we prayed together about it, that I was just going to have to bite the bullet and try to wean down. Maybe when I get to that low critical dose it may be more safe to cross taper to something else. Who knows?

[chicken]

Hopefull,

As to you question about why I switched from Prozac to remeron.

 

Actually it wasn't a switch. I quit prozac and did quite well with no med for about 4 years. I had a crises event happen in my life that caused my anxiety to flare up again. I tried reinstating prozac but could not tolerate it. It caused insomnia and I was put on Remeron.

[Altostrata]

Hopefull, please sign in to our Australia members thread http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6284-australia-members-please-check-in-here/

[Hopefull]

hi chicken,

how r u? have u started tapering off mirt? i have read through ur post

u have a lot of anxieties in regards to mirtz like my self. but u have to beleive that you can come off it. i have finally started to come off mirtz. i was on 37.5mg s.d now i am on 30mg.

it has not helped with panic attacs or anxiety. i have changed doctors and will taper off meds

my way. SLOWLY. ad's can't stand, screw people up and their lives

no medical practioner would take ad's but docs prescribe ad's. i am still very angry and at times have thought about suing but i know that would be in vain. it seems people are suffering but no one is listening. pgad is long gone but

but mental scars have not. i am not the same person i once was. mirtx

mirtz has made me numb.

[chicken]

Hi Hopfull,

I have been off Mirtz since August. After I quit at 3.75mg I had to reinstate at the crisis stabilzation center, I was in the ER before that and they added Cipro the same day I reinstated. I truly believe Cipro messed up everthing. I got worse and worse for about three months. When I became suicidal the I went in the hospital and the doc bridged me to zyprexa and pamelor. I am now tapereing these plus the small amount of tranxene that I was on. I have tapered down to half of what I was on in the hospital.

I am stable now but I don't know how it will be when I get off these. Since I am stable I'm hoping my taper will be much better than with the mirtz.

 

You mention about doctors not taking ads, My pdoc said his daughter is on an SSRI. I asked him about it and he said he does not like it but she chose to be on it.. One thing he is good about is the dosages. He always starts at the lowest dose possible. He doesn't believe in high dosages. Some docs start people out on high doses and I don't understand that.

 

I want to warn people about taking Cipro and that family of drugs.

Read this man's story

http://www.ciproispoison.com/1_2_My-Story.html

His cipro experience make antidepressants look like a walk in the park.

[Hopefull]

today has been horrible. it started of good but by afternoon i started to feel weird. i don't know whether it is because i have cut down from 22.5mg to 15mg. i was on 22.5mgs for 2 weeks then almost a week ago i cut down to 15mgs. i felt pretty good all week until today. i feel tired, pins and needles in my face and low mood. thoughts produce anxiety and i had a feeling like the andrenilline surge was about to come on. i saw my doctor and he told me to take 15mgs of mitrazapine for one week and then stop. i know that is a stupif advice and i feel that i should have continued with.22.5mgs for at least 2 more weeks before cutting down further. i am not sure if i am experiencing withdrawral symptoms? the problem is that i can not stay on mirtz as i have experienced weird symptoms since being on this medication, but can not come off it too fast. i allways feel like i am taking.3 steps forward and 3 steps back. i have had great days but the feeling of andrenelline surge and urge scares me. i just hope things will settle down.

[mammaP]

Hopefull you are tapering far too fast and certainly suffering withdrawal symptoms.

I know that side effects are distressing but cutting too fast can only make things worse.

Please slow down, I really do understand how hard it is when you feel the need to be off 

but it really is not worth the withdrawal.  Hopefully as you get lower you will start to feel better

but that will only happen if you go slowly enough for your brain to adjust to the lower dose. 

[tgirl]

Hello Hopeful,

That is quite a jump!

One I'm familiar with.

I know that you feel trapped, but you have to slow it down.

thinking of you,

Tgirl

[Hopefull]

thank you mamma p and tgirl. i know it is too fast i went against my gut instinct and followed doctors advice. although i will not be stopping mirtz abruptly as suggested by my doctor. i hope to stablise on 15mg eventually. i don't whish to go up to 22.5mg. can you please tell me whether it is normal to feel great after a cut amd then to feel lousy almost a week later. does that mean that your body is better without the meds, but too fast cut means the body is having trouble adjusting to the lower dose? but you can stabilise over time and then make another cut? i am planning on staying on this dose till mid jan. and then cutting to 7.5mg. is this too fast? thank you so much for your help.

[tgirl]

Hopefull,

That is way too fast.

I went through hell cutting that way and am still not right.

The doctors don't know what they are talking about. They don't take the meds.

thinking about you

[Broken]

Be patient and overly cautious, it's a marathon you're faced with not a 100 meter sprint.

 

Thinking about you.

[Broken]

The doctors don't know what they are talking about.

So true and soooo worrying.

[Petunia]

Hi just to update,

 

I have not had any PGAD symptoms since early March and I can say that I am free! It has taken 4 months to recover and I am feel better. I am  still on mirtazapine 7.5 mg, and in couple months time I hope to get off. I hope to give others hope!

 

Hi Hopefull, when did you go up to 37.5mg?  In April you were on 7.5mg.  It would help if you could put a little more detail in your signature.

 

I just read through your thread and I'm confused, why did you increase your Mirtazapine dose back up to 37.5 if you wanted to come off it?

 

Here are our Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine) http://survivinganti...on-mirtazapine/ 

 

As others have mentioned, you are tapering too fast.  We recommend reducing by no more than 10% of your current dose every 4 weeks, this minimizes the chance of getting withdrawal symptoms so its more likely you will be successful and not have to go back on or increase your dose.

 

 

 can you please tell me whether it is normal to feel great after a cut amd then to feel lousy almost a week later. does that mean that your body is better without the meds, but too fast cut means the body is having trouble adjusting to the lower dose? but you can stabilise over time and then make another cut? i am planning on staying on this dose till mid jan. and then cutting to 7.5mg. is this too fast? thank you so much for your help.

 

For most drugs it takes about 4 days for a change to register in your system, so if it takes a little while for symptoms to appear after a cut, that would be the reason.

 

Making a cut from 15mg down to 7.5mg is a 50% cut, we recommend 10%, which would mean going down to 13.5mg at your next cut.

[Hopefull]

thank you petu, t girl, and broken,

i was on 7.5mg for six months and then in june i wamted to get off mirtz. saw my doctor he told me to either quit cold turkey or take 1/2 of 7.5 for about a week or two, (can't rember exactly) and then stop. i choose to stop, (which was foolish i know), 3 days ok. 4th day noticed like that dredfull andrenilline surge was about to come on. i went back to the doctor and he kept increasing up to 37.5. in october i have had enough as i was still having panic attacks and decided to get off. my psychologist recommended a new p. doctor. i have been seeing this new doctor since tappering mirtz. the weird thing is that i have experienced mild pgad symptoms this week. on anc off. today i have been fine. no symptoms. i don't know whether it is becsuse of the recent cut or mirtz. has been masking symptoms from zoloft. i honestly don't know anymore appart that i have experienced so many weird symptoms since being on meds. that i wonder if i will ever heal or feel completly normal. can the brain heal and return to its original non drug state? thank you so much!

[Broken]

Hopefully your PGAD symptoms are just due to the taper, another indication that you should taper as slowly as possible.

[Broken]

How are you feeling Hopefull?

[Hopefull]

hi broken,

i am feeling good and you? do you get worse pgad symptoms if you feel stressed? i had minor symptoms yesterday for a little while. today i am ok. it is weird. i don't have it all the time. it comes and goes. last week was worse but no symptoms today. and you? are your symptoms improving? i think it was from mirtz. cut. hope you are feeling a bit better.

[Broken]

PGAD is just generally unbearable to be honest, it's all the time unfortunately but yes I'd say that stress definitely does have a negative effect on it.

 

I've started taking clonzepam hoping that it would help alleviate the symptoms, makes me sleepy more than anything else.

[Altostrata]

Watch out about taking clonazepam, you can become physiologically dependent on it quite easily, and benzos can be difficult to taper.

[Broken]

How are you Hopefull? You're quiet, hoping that's a good sign.

[Hopefull]

hi broken,

i have been ok. i have good moments when i feel almost normal and moments when i feel terrible. my pgad symptoms have gone for now. it must have been from tappering too fast off mirtz. how are you broken? any improvment since your last post? as i have mentioned previously, be careful with suppliments/benzos it can make your symptoms worse. are benzos helping you at all? i try to get throgh the day by saying to my self that this will not last forever. it is not possible to be stuck in one spot forvever. life will move on. you will move on in life too broken you will see. you just have to be patient.which i know is hard. set your self a task to get through this, day by day. not by months. smaller steps are easier to take then by thinking in terms of months or years. get through each day, do something that you have previously enjoyed even if you feel terrible. i go shopping, that makes me feel better. i forget about things. keep me posted how you are going. merry x-mas and happy new year to you all!

[Altostrata]

That's very good news, Hopefull, your healing is in progress. Please let others with PGAD know you're doing much better.

[Broken]

The benzo does help alleviate the "itch" a little but obviously I'm concerned that it might delay my PGAD symptoms abating in the longterm.

 

Thank you for your support Hopefull it's been of great comfort and I hope you have a very Merry Christmas and a very promising New Year in all respects but especially as far as your recovery is concerned.

 

Thanks again.

[Hopefull]

i wish all the best to you all. i look forward to the day when i can write my recovery success stor. merry x-mas and happy 2015 broken and everyone else.

[chicken]

Have a merry Christmas Hopefull. I believe you will recover soon because you don't have a long history with drugs. I think that will work in your favor.

[Hopefull]

thank you chicken. i wish you all the best. merry x-mas and happy 2015. you will recover too.