Tiredofremeron: tapering from Remeron after a 17 month Klonopin taper

[tiredofremeron]

Hello all,

I had 5 years of tolerance WD with klonopin benzo, not knowing what was wrong with me. Then once I learned of the issues, I took 17 months to LTaper from .6mg klonopin.  5 months later I began another liquid taper from 15mg Remeron.  As of 1/5/14 I am now 2 months into my Remeron taper.  Things were beginning to improve 5 months after the klonopin taper ended, but got worse when I began the Remeron taper.  I'm now two months into the Remeron taper , about 25% off and am going at a 10%/month pace.

 

Things got a little easier about 5-6 months away from the klonopin, but I started the Remeron taper at that time with a pace of 5%/week.  After about 3 weeks of the remeron taper, things became too awful to continue ther taper. I held for a few days and resumed at a lower 10%/month pace.  It's getting a bit better with just the usual nasty symptoms now.   My plan now is to try to continue with the 10%/month pace as much as I can tolerate it.  It if gets too bad, I will hold steady until it abates.     

 

Any opinions or advice from anyone who has experience getting off Remeron?    Do youo think that the Remeron WD is less than benzo WD?

 

Thanks for this site.

[tezza]

Hi tor, welcome to the group! I'm sorry things aren't going so well! If you're having symptoms already and have only been tapering a couple of months, you definitely need to slow down.

 

Your system has been through the ringer with the benzo WD. You may have waited a little longer and felt better, I'm not sure. You may be tapering too much or too fast. I just finished tapering Remeron 12/21/13. It took me a year and a half to get off 7.5mg.

 

We suggest 10% or less of the CURRENT dose, the amount you decrease by, gets smaller and smaller. Is that the way you do it? Holding a month between very small cuts is also a good thing. The idea is to have minimal WD symptoms so you increase your chance of coming off successfully.

 

If I were you, I'd hold long enough to feel well, until symptoms abate, then I'd go very slowly.

 

I'm glad you've joined us!

[tezza]

When you get a chance, please add your history. It is very helpful to anyone reading your posts.

 

Thanks, instructions here:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

[Altostrata]

Welcome, tiredofremeron.

 

I agree with tezza, I would hold at your present level now, don't push your taper. There's no need to strain your nervous system until you get serious problems.

 

FYI on tapering Remeron http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5301-tips-for-tapering-off-remeron-mirtazapine/

[wulfgar]

Welcome!

 

It takes about 3 weeks in on each taper for me before insomnia hits at its worst. It takes that long at least so tapering to fast and you might end up with insomnia and lots of other nasties and no clue how much to take to get back to a manageable situation.

 

For us guys 11.5 is not all that high a dose, in respect to side efects of being on the med. WD:s from reducing to fast can be very strong. Be kind to yourself and let your body and mind get used to each reduction. If you taper fast you might end up feeling worse for longer than a slower taper would.

 

And no/yes to the question on which is worse. For me to much reduction from any of them results in total insonmia and hospitalization. Each drug and each person is different. You have to find out how your body works. Do this by tapering a low percentage, evaluate after 4 weeks, and perhaps increase the taper if ok. Dont do it by tapering a big chunk to see what happens. Lots of nasties could hapen. Some nasties might not stop for a long while!

 

Regards

Wulfgar

[tiredofremeron]

Wulgar,  thanks for your input.    I have been holding for a week now waiting for the symptoms to level off, but they have not..   I'm doing a micro liquid titration and until the past week, I was tapering daily by  .05mg/day. that was about 10% /month, but even that slow rate proved to be too much, I guess.    I can't tell what symptoms are from the benzo withdrawal, of which I am now over 7 monts benzo free, or from the two month old remeron taper I started in November '13.   

 

This is pretty awful and I'm not seeing any  leveling off of symtptoms.   Lots of dizziness, which I've had all along,  belly bloat/discomfort, anxiety, nausea, muscle pains. etc.  

 

I've held the remeron steady for a week now, but no relief.  It makes sense to continue to hold steady, but it would be nice to see some improvement.   I'm very discouraged.  This whole benzo/remeron issue has been ongoing for 7 years........

[Altostrata]

A micro taper can be too fast. Perhaps updosing slightly will help.

 

Or, you might need a nice long hold right now.

[wulfgar]

I so recognice the the feeling of wanting to get of as soon as possible. That is one of the emotions that could lead to problems though. Tapering to fast. For me benzo (zopiclone) and remeron withdrawal is not all that different. You are the expert on your body and how you feel. How did you feel before starting mirtazapine taper? Which symptoms is new? In general, the rate which you have tapered causes wd. Anxiety and nausea is definatly wd symptoms. Diziness i had also when on high dose remeron. Its much better for me now at lower dose but not compleetly gone. During taper it became worse. Does your diziness go away when laying down? Mine do. If it does i might have some small suggestions that might help a little.

 

Alto is right. Hold, or try to updose slightly. An updose by just a few mg can make a difference. Remeber also, a dose change takes 5 days to stabilize in blood serum so changes you make takes time to settle.

 

A week is not enough to stabilize on. Blood serum has just stabilized and now your mind needs to catch up with being without some of the drug.A month+ is needed. Im sorry you have all these symptoms! Hope they get better soon!

[tiredofremeron]

Thanks Alto and Wulfgar for your input.  Wulfgar,  I don't feel the dizziness unless I am up and around.   I can't figure out anything that makes this better or worse..   The whole thing has a mind of its' own.  Not a linear healing thats for sure, just a wild roller coaster ride every day.    I'm still functional, but it's getting more challenging every day.

 

I have this fullheaded loopy feeling in my head and chest, with dizziness. I use medical MJ employing only low THC high CBD products so there is very little dizziness from that, and I use it sparingly, so I dont think that the MJ is contributing to any of these newer symptoms.  I've been using the MJ symptomatically  for almost a year now.   The MJ helps greatly with the anxiety, stomachaches, nausea,  and muscle/joint  aches.

 

Before starting the Remeron taper, my symptoms were stable, but pretty awful, but more managable than since the remeron taper started.    I was beginning to see some daylight after 5  1/2 months off the benzo and that's when I started the Remeron taper.  Then the firestorm began and has gotten worse in the past 3 weeks.  Again, using the liquid titration method I was reducing  daily by .05mg.  I've been holding steady, not reducing at all, for the past 8 days.   I'm now at 11.35mg, down  24.2% from the original 15 mg and I began the Remeron taper last 11/8/13.    

 

I think I will just continue to hold steady until this lets up a bit.      Thanks for your thoughts.

[wulfgar]

This i my take on the diziness. Remeron tinkers with adrenaline receptors. Adrenaline is connected to renin system and vasoconstiction of leg and bowel blood vessels. So, when you sit up or stand, your blood vessels should constrict like an airman suite in your legs and abdomen, but they don't do that correctly now. To much blood pools in your legs, pressure drops in your head. You get dizzy. Your head discover this and does what it can to remedy this by increasing heart rate and blood pressure, diastolic the most. But there is just so much it can do. Dizziness due to low pressure in your head. There is a condition called hypovolumia which has the same symptoms.

 

If you are not sensitive to salt you can try to increase your salt intake or add 1/4 teaspoon of sea salt to a glass of water. More salt increases blood volume, and for me it reduces dizziness somewhat. I believe this form of dizziness is benign and will go away when you are of the drug and your system has stabilized.

[wulfgar]

Hi tiredofremeron,

 

Hope things are improving for you!

 

/Wulfgar

[tiredofremeron]

Hi Wulfgar,   Thanks for your thoughts.  I have resumed the Remeron taper again, at a pace of 2.5%/week.    It's become a bit more tolerable, don't know why.  Still a lot of symptoms, but manageable.  Started taking free form amino acids on the advice of a benzo doctor.  Makes me even a bit dizzier, but seems to help with the anxiety.   Still have lot of muscle aches, headaches, etc. but I'm still moving forward with the taper.    Look forward to being off eventually.  Now at  10.7mg of Remeron, about 28% off since 11/8/13.   I'm still doing vigorous exercise at gym for 2- 2 1/2 hours /day, which has been my anchor for feeling better.   MJ also is a great help symptomatically for pain and anxiety, but certainly not a cure-all.   Getting off and allowing time to pass seems to be the only way out of this.

 

Any other advice?  I truly appreciate your concern.  Thank you.

[wulfgar]

Remeron/Mirtazapine lowers cortisol quite much. So i think our body upregulate cortisole production when on the drug for long. When you taper effects of remeron lessens and cortisol gets high. This makes it hard to get results in the gym. Cortisol eats the muscle and gains away, literarly. Easy to get back pain, and muscle pain. I would suggest using a restitution training regiment/mindset during taper and not push to hard in the gym as this increases cortisol production even more. Watch out for overreaching or burnout.

 

Also blood pressure might get elevated during taper so dont go for that 400 pound squat or you might burst something internally.

 

2.5% sounds like a plan. Keep a diary on symptoms and sleep and be ready to hold as soon as symptoms gets a to downwardy trend.

 

Good luck!

Wulfgar

[tiredofremeron]

I spent 5 years in tolerance withdrawal '07-'12 before I learned what was causing my symptoms and how to get off Klonoplin and Remeron.  In 1/12 I began a 17 month taper from 6/10ths mg of Klonopin.  I finished Klonopin on 6/8/13.  I then waited 5 months and began a 10 month Liquid titration from  30mgs Remeron.  While both tapers were pretty awful, I found the Remeron taper to be worse.  It got especially bad in the last month of the taper.  Then I brought the Remeron down to .05mgs and 9 days ago, I stopped it, having brought it down to .05mg.   Two days later I was hit with complete insomnia.  When I was at about .15 of Remeron, I was still sleeping but it got worse over the next few days of the taper until I  jumped off.  Then, once completely off, I lost the ability to sleep at all.  Not even 5 minutes of sleep in the next 5 nights.  Being up all night with these awful symptoms of anxiety and belly bloat/pain/nausea , began a pattern of fearing getting into bed, dark ruminating thoughts all night, and feeling pretty awful all day from the usual anxiety symptoms plus unbelievable fatigue.   

 

I was very tempted to bo back on the Remeron at a slightly higher dose, but have resisted doing this so far.    On the advise of another sufferer, as well as my doctor, I took Unisom, an antihistamine.  Benadryl had not worked earlier.  This put me to sleep for 9 hours, albeit with a antihistamine hangover all day.   The next night it didn't work at all !!!  Others had told me that the same thing happened to them with Unisom.

 

    I have been using high CBD med MJ up to now to help with horrific symptoms, but it would not put me to sleep.   I went to a pot store and they suggested a Chai tea infused with large amounts of THC.   I used it two nights ago and it put and kept me asleep.  LAst night, however, using the tea,  I awoke after 4 hours with great anxiety and bellyache/anxiety in my belly.  The only thing I did differently last night was not to use any CBD capsules before bed to perhaps temper the THC in the chai tea. For now, I think that is what happened. Anyway, I'm really beginning to get frantic over this.  

I was hoping that since I did a 10 month LT at 10%/month, and slept OK pretty much the entire time, that just stopping at 99.6% off wouldn't be too much of a difference and that my symptoms would sort of stay the same after stopping.  Wow, was I wrong. 

 

Does anyone have any idea what happened and why didn't the gradual taper prevent this drastic change in symptoms and sleep???

I am feeling very trapped and hopeless. I can still get some symptoms releif with the various cannabis CBD products I have, but again, don't want to be doing this all day and night, and it hasn't helped with the insomnia.

Has anyone else dealt with this from Remeron, and how long did it take for this to settle down and for sleep to return?

 

Any suggestions from anyone who has any knowledge about getting off Remeron and what to do about the insomnia???

 

I sincerely appreciate any help. I don't know how much longer I can live like this.  Many thanks.

[Karma]

Hi TOR

 

Welcome to our community.  By my calculations if you are doing a 10% decrement of the previous dose of Remeron you would be on 11.6 mg, not at 0.05 mg.  It appears you did a 10% decrement of your original dose which would mean you have tapered too quickly and that is likely why you are experiencing anxiety and insomnia.

 

Here is our thread on decrementing remeron: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5301-tips-for-tapering-off-remeron-mirtazapine/

 

To eliminate withdrawal symptoms it is recommended that your reinstate a small amount of the drug.  What was the last dose you were on where you were stable and how long has it been since you were on that dose?  If it has been within a month, I would reinstate that amount and see whether your symptoms improve.

 

Additional supplements and drugs are not likely to help.  The problem is that your central nervous system is destabilized and you need to allow it time to get stable rather than hitting it with additional substances.

 

Please let us know what your last stable dose was.  There are a number of members here who specifically have experience with remeron and they will be along soon to provide additional information and support.

 

I'm glad you found us.  You will find lots of support here.

 

Karma

[tiredofremeron]

Hi Karma, 

 

Thanks for your reply.  My last "stable" dose of Rem, if you can call it stable, was around .15-.2mgs.  Was not well at all, but at least I was sleeping.

 

From what I understand, there are those who reinstate and can not get comfortable again, and have to sort of start all over with the drug, and then there are some for whom this works.  I'm not really wanting to reinstate, figuring that that would be pretty emotionally devastating to me to get back  on in the hope that I can again retaper successfully.   So, I'm certainly more inclined to stay off now that I finally got off. 

 

You're right, I was cutting 10% / mnth from the original dose.

 

Any thoughts about how long the "average" Remeron insomnia lasts?

 

How about how long this over the top anxiety hangs on?

 

I'm running out of options and can't see going back on the poison.

 

I appreciate your help a lot.  Thanks.

 

 

[tiredofremeron]

I reported the wrong starting dose of Remeron. IT was 15mg, not 30mgs.    So I tapered 15 to .05 mgs' in 10 months.

[bubble]

Hi tiredofrem,

 

I have merged the thread you started in the tapering section with your introductory thread so that we have all the information about your journey in one place. 

 

In addition, you will get more replies here. You can change your signature to reflect the correct starting dose of Remeron. Go to your profile. In the top right corner you will see Edit my profile, click and then you will see Signature listed on the left. Click on it and there you can update your signature.

 

best,

Bubble

[Karma]

I'm sorry.  There is no "average" duration of remeron anxiety.  Everyone is different.  There is no average time the over the top anxiety hangs on. 

 

You have destabilized your system and the best recommendation I have is to reinstate a small amount of the drug to see if your symptoms minimize.  I would reinstate at .15 mg and see if your symptoms minimize.  You can then hold and give your system time to stabilize or you can increase in small increments if necessary.  Just because you reinstate doesn't mean failure and it doesn't mean that you will never be off of the drug.

 

Once you stabilize you can start a slow taper off of the drug completely with a goal of being fully functional in your life.

 

But right now your system is telling you that you have removed the drug too rapidly and no one can tell you when you will find relief if you chose to ride it out.

 

Karma

[tiredofremeron]

Karma,

 

Last night was terrible. Now have had 14 nights with only three nights of sleep, and that was when the antihistamine happened to work.  Does't work any more.  So, I cannt take it any longer and think that I must now reinstate.  PErhaps I'll do it at .2mgs.  Do you suggest I take this during the day, and again, when I try to go to sleep to get my system acclimated to it again, or just take it tonight before bedtime and cross my fingers.?

 

I can see why some people comitt suicide when this doesn't go well.  These symptoms are beyond belief.   I've been doing acupuncture trying to calm my system, but I can'tdiscern that it's helping.  Wonder if it's hurting anything??????

 

Can you give me some hope, perhaps, that others have reinstated Remeron and were then aboe to later get off it successfully?  Thank you so much for your advice.  

[dalsaan]

I would go .15 at your usual time, don't double dose, you have sensitised your system so you want to avoid having a reaction

 

My best advice to you is reinstate taking it when you normally would, go to be when you are tired (yawning), and focus on relaxing as much as possible, don't try to sleep, just relax.

 

I have been where you are, it is dementing, depressing and exhausting. I have reinstated a number of times to address insomnia.

 

I'm not quite off yet but I'm not rushing it and I have my life back

 

Take care

 

D

[wulfgar]

Hi tiredofremeron,

 

I also think you should reinstate to last functional (sleep whise) dose. The last drop/jump was tougher on me than the other tapers, and i think going real slow at the end is important. If i remember correctly i stabilized on the last doses for three months before jump. Also, remember that it takes about 5 days for a change in remeron dose to get to its steady state blood concentration so reinstate might not give effect the first few days. For me, reinstatement when i had tapered to fast always worked, with no new strange symptoms.

 

/Wulfgar

[tiredofremeron]

Well, I just tried .4mg of Rem to reinstate and the first night I slept. After that it didn't help me sleep at all. I tried .8 the total the same night and the addition of the other .4 also did nothing.      I am now 14 days with absolutely zero sleep..  Feels like I'm going crazy.     Spoke to two of my doctors,. While of course they don't really know what will happen, they agree that I should perhaps tonight try  2 mgs or more and see if I sleep.  I can't do this much longer.  Feels like I'm near death.      IF 2 mgs doesn't work then I guess I would go up even higher.   Then, once stabilized at whatever dose, I would take much longer to taper from it.  

 

I just heard about this treatment center near Colorado Springs, CO that uses special neurofeedback, nutriceuticals,  and lots of talk therapies.  Not interested i talk therapy but would like to hear if maybe I could just do outpatient treatments to get some sleep and get my nervous system healthy again.  Their website is   www.c2cranches.com

 

Anyway, a the small amount just a bit hight than my jumping off dose did not work, so I don't see that I have any choice but to go higher if I'm ever going to sleep and not have these severe anxiety pangs all day and such awful stomachaches.

[wulfgar]

14 days sounds awful! Went 11 days on my first to fast unsuccessful taper. It was like my mind had forgotten how to sleep. Hope you are not exercising right now! A body this deprived of sleep has no recovery capability and any physical stuff will elevate stress hormones greatly. I went to my summer house and slept there. The environment change caused a small improvement. Any small improvements is good.

I wish i could give you a solution to this but we are all different. Will tell you what i did. Perhaps you find some ideas from that?

My take on this back then was that the sleep issue needs to be treated from as many angles as possible. Sure remeron and benzo was the initiating culprit but the problem escalates and other mechanisms also comes into play keeping insomnia going. Stress was the biggest one i think. Any stress to a sleep deprived person will cause unhealthy elevations in stress hormones. Removed as much of that as possible. My body and mind was in a "hyper mode", not hyper stressed but to wound up like and this disabled me to "let go" when i tried to sleep. forced myself to get up out of bed early to increase time out of bed. A little applied sleep restriction theory. I tried to go outdoors early to sit in nature listening to audio books. Distracted myself as much as possible from worrying and scheduled surf/worry time to one or two hours each day only. Listened to progressive relaxation tapes. For each small activity, like eating or taking out the trash, i lay down for a rest. Tried to keep my "wound up" mind as relaxed as possible. Also, I found out i was vitamin d deficient and that compounded my problem. Have your doc checked vitamin d and b12 status? Also tried to change my mindset on sleep and acknowledge that rest without sleep also helps body and mind with recovery. Ate only easily digested foods like meat and vegetable soup, small portions, often. Also had gastro issues from remeron and lack of sleep. Took some vitamin C (ester C) with breakfast to combat stress. I eventually started to sleep 2-3 hours each night, then 3-5 and now a good 5-6 hours. Did not think i could recover back then, but i did! There is hope for sure!

 

Hope any of this helps!

[tiredofremeron]

Thanks for your comments.   Last night i reinstated and updosed to 2.0 mgs.  I actually slept 8 hours. Still feel very hungover and anxious, but  knowing that this worked relieved a lot of stress over this not working regarding sleep.   Yesterday I actually thought that this was it,   I was dying and there was no way out of this.  Dying was actually feeling OK as a possibility.  Cant' believe my sleep deprived mind was actually thinking like this.

 

So, since I'm so hung over from the 2.0 mgs, I thought I'd try 1.5 mgs before my body gets too stabilized at 2.0 and hope that I still sleep.  Does this sound sensible to you?  Then I think I will stay here for a couple of weeks to regain the 10 lbs I lost over the last  2 weeks, feel better, and resume the taper at a much slower pace.  Does this sound like a sensible plan to you?  HAd I had this knowledge beforehand, I would have held steady the last month or so without continuing to taper to allow more time for my body to adjust as I got to such a low level. Maybe that would have prevented this crisis?

 

I admire you for having gotten through this.  I hope to join you there in the next 6-10  months or so, whatever time it takes, but I am determined to get off this poison.   This is the last Rx med I am on, but wow, how powerful it must be to do this to me.

 

Where do you live, Wulgar?  I am in Colorado. 

[wulfgar]

You are welcome. I know how horrible complete insomnia can be. I felt much the same way. Reducing a bit might work. Would not reduce much though. This night, after 8 hours previously, you might get less sleep again. Great that you got 8 hours. Hurray! A real good sign! Remember to reduce stress, and just do nothing but easy distracting things. You have a sleep deficit that needs more than 8 hours.

I think you are hung over from sleep, not the 2.0 mg:s. When sleep deprived and eventually sleep you probably slept most of the night in deep sleep. That causes a hung over feeling. I would suggest you stay for more than a month. I believe the damage these drugs do is proportional to dosage more than time. 2 mg is a low dose. Tapering to fast or jumping even from a small dose can cause serious problems though. Its a very sensible plan to stay put for a while to stabilize. A history of Benzodiazepines seems to cause mirtazapine to be harder to taper of, and we need to go slower due to this. I think i wrote in chickens thread why i think this is so.

 

Please, friend, go slow this last bit and take care! I will pm you where I'm from.

 

Im sure you will join me in being free of this crap!

Best

Wulfgar

[tgirl]

Hello T, how are you doing now?

[tiredofremeron]

Not well, I'm sorry to say.   I went to a facility in October for 2 weeks to do LENS therapy to activate my suppressed neuroreceptors.  While there I totally stopp Remeron again.  After two weeks, when I assume my body reacted to the absence of the drug, I began to get acute WD again with insomnia, GI pain, greata anxiety, etc.   That's where I am right now.   I am 2 months off Remeronnow and my only hope seems to be the passage of time.     I had a neurotransmitter test done a  month ago which showed that  I have little functioning seratonin or nor epinephrine.   I was then sold  a few amino acid supplements from Neuroscience Company.  I'm only a week or so into these supplemnets. Some of them calm the anxiety.  The only thing that now helps with a little sleep if using high indica marijuana.  I can get 2-3 hours of sleep. maybe more, but it's pretty hard to tell if you doze off or not.  Seems like not sleeping.    Using ginger for the beely stuff with limited success.  Have lost about 10 pounds from my original weight of 150 lbs, so I can't afford to lose weight.   

 

So, taking supplements of amino acids, doing magnesium sulfate baths a couple of times/weeks for anxiety/relaxation, and trying to stay as unstressed as possible as it doesnt take very much to get me revved up with high anxiety, paic sensations, etc.  

 

I will not go back on Remeron again, so I guess that I will have to tough this out for as long as it takes.   Pretty hard to live ike this as I don't have a very normal life any longer.  Everything revolves around how I'm feeling at that very minute.  My neurofeedback therapist wants me to totally stop MJ, but I have to live through this and MJ enables me to calm the anxiety and get a little sleep. Dont know if this does or does not hinder the healing and "waking up" of my suppressed receptors.  Whatever it does, I have to have some means of getting throught his alive.  The MJ enable me to do this.  I used it to get through the tapers of klonopin and Remeron, and now hope it will get me through recovery from Remeron.       Appreciate any thoughts. Thanks for asking.

[Altostrata]

The Neuroscience neurotransmitter tests have no validity.

 

Which of the supplements have you found helpful?

[tiredofremeron]

I have benefitted , but not all the time, from Calm PRT, Kavinace, and Immuwell.  Kavinace PM makes me very dizzy the entire next day.

 

I just submitted the  "23 and Me" test.  No results yet.

[Altostrata]

Interesting. Please let us know what you find.

 

You may be interested in our discussions about Neuroscience and neurotransmitter testing (use the search box).

[tgirl]

Hello Tired,

So sorry you are having such a hard time!

I'm glad the mj is helping you a bit. Where are you from?

It's just so awful what this drug can do to us.

Thank you for your reply.

Hope you get some relief!

[tiredofremeron]

I'm in Colorado.  Ready to give up on MJ for sleep.  Puts me to sleep for 1-2 hours, then it's up for the rest of the night and don't like to do more during the night.  I'm told that some of the symptoms start to drop off after 3-4 months, from Remeron, but who knows.  Aside from the dizziness, nausea, anxiety, all the stomach stuff, the sleep issue is the worst.  Just being awake wouldn't be so bad, but being up all night with the those other symptoms is brutal.   I'm hoping for some change in these symptoms soon.     Anyone have any thoughtss about Remeron and the symptoms?   I'm off benzos just about 18 months.

[tgirl]

Sorry to hear the mj is not helping you. Please keep us posted as to how you are doing.

[Petunia]

My first thoughts from reading your signature, before reading more of your thread was that you were not yet recovered from your K taper and shouldn't have started your Remeron taper, I was going to suggest you stop tapering for now and hold.

 

But now I see that you are completely off Remeron and...

 

I will not go back on Remeron again, so I guess that I will have to tough this out for as long as it takes.  

 

...which is a pity because my next suggestion was going to be to try reinstatement of a small amount and then if it worked, a long hold until you stabilized and recovered more fully from the Klonopin taper.

 

Here is some information about reinstatement for if you want to consider it:

http://survivinganti...rawal-symptoms/

 

Here is the link to our symptoms and self care section, you may find some useful ideas to help manage symptoms as you recover.  Especially read the topics pinned at the top.