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The importance of MTHFR, methylation, & B vitamins: Eat leafy green veggies!


Altostrata

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Treatment of MTHFR is largely trial and error. Identification of genetic variations doesn't translate into treatments. Follow-up testing is ineffective.

 

Successful treatment means the patient feels better. In other words, it's a bunch of experimentation with various B vitamin strategies until something good happens.

 

On top of that, the reason the patient might not feel good may be entirely unrelated to MTHFR variations, they may be coincidental and not causal.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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yes...I've not bothered with much testing because of all of the above...people spend a fortune on labs which are largely useless...

 

early on I did a lot of lab work until it became clear it was a bit racket...and not only that...it often leads to "treatment" that is actually harmful because a lot of practitioners put far more stock into them than they should...

 

it's not that the tests are really completely useless, but they aren't nearly as helpful as one would like to think.

 

I've done far better figuring out stuff by paying attention to others with these issues and doing process of elimination and intuitive eating etc...

Everything Matters: Beyond Meds 

https://beyondmeds.com/

withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
 

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Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone

1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox.

b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b]

2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax

November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b

Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax

My mantra " go slow & with the flow "

3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day)

4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day.

10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro.

1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms.

1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. :) 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut.

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Chris Kresser's latest on methylation http://chriskresser.com/methylation-what-is-it-and-why-should-you-care

 

Believe me, even if you get a 23andme genetic analysis, it's still trial-and-error to see what works. Good luck finding someone who can interpret it.

 

As Chris Kresser all but admits, this is a science that's not there yet.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 3 weeks later...
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Wow.  I just re-read this, now that I've been diagnosed "undermethylator."  This wasn't a genetic thing, it  was a ratio thing, that had to do with histamine. My Functional MD said a Sam-e/ratio test, as recommended by Walsh, is available here, but she doesn't want to look at it yet, my adrenal fatigue & pyroluria are more important.  She said this will take months to turn my ship around.  And I am better, I am more alive, more engaged, as the lithium goes down, and the supplements get adjusted.

 

I still don't understand it, thought I understand it a bit better than when I read this thread the first time.  And I've switched my supplementation away from the "whups bad" and toward the "good."  

 

HATE liver, though.  Might be able to stand chicken livers (bet the cat would help!).  Would rather take an extract supplement as described here.

 

Do some smoothies.  Oooh, spinach bad?  Bummer!  Love spinach! 

 

Off to read some of the posted articles to see if I can get smarter, but seem to be at a phase where not much is "getting in."

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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If you have nothing else to do (lol), you can watch Dr. Mensah's video on MTHFR. This thread is talking about maximizing MTHFR. He disagrees, says we don't know enough, there are untested SNP's that are affecting things. They look at the overall output from the whole MTHFR cycle. Serum histamine indrectly measured that, SAM/SAMe does it directly but you have to have a lab that can do it within an hour of drawing the blood. The people that look at snp's are measuring the genetic material that codes for the MTHFR enzyme. A big difference. But the biggest difference is that Mensah is adamant that folic acid/folate/methyl folate is very harmful for people who are undermethylated, whereas the rest of the world thinks it is the solution. I do not know how to reconcile this. On one hand, Dr. Walsh is almost the "grandfather" of methylation theory...but the WHOLE rest of the world is a lot of people. Also, I have written Mensah's nurse about the safety of folic acid when there are many studies that say it promotes cancer and other bad things, but haven't received a response yet.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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  • 4 weeks later...

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Careful if you have the COMT and/or MAOI mutations, methylcobalamin in particular can cause overstimulation.

 

Like the OP said, go slow, wait and see. I find B12 to helpful, but hydroxocobalamin agrees with me best. It does not have a methyl group.

April / 2016: Cipralex 10 mg, Mirtazapine 30 mg, Lyrica 600 mg, Diazepam 20 mg, Bystolic 5 mg

2018: Lots of polypharmacy which is undocumented here. Started and stopped several drugs and changed doses of existing ones

August / 2018: Back on track! Cipralex 15 mg, Mirtazapine 7.5 mg, Diazepam 15 mg

September 2018: Cipralex 15 mg -> 12.5 mg

October 2018: Cipralex 12.5 mg -> 10 mg, Mirtazapine 7.5 mg -> 3.75 mg -> Stopped, Diazepam 15 mg

November 2019: Cipralex 5 mg, Diazepam 10 mg

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  • 2 months later...

This conversation is soooo interesting, but a little bit overwhelming for my foggy brain...

I probably have this MTHFR variation, but also have hypothyroidism.

So, my questions:

-Greens are good for methylation, but some are not for hypothyroidism?

-Spinach is not great because of histamine?

 

If someone could clarify this for me my foggy brain and my whole self would be very thankful! ^_^

2000-2001: Effexor              2005-2012: Celexa, Zoloft, Effexor, desipramin, Wellbutrin, mirtazepin, Lamictal, Remeron, Abilify, nortriptylin, Cipralex, Cymbalta, and others I don't remember. Really bad side effects to all.
Sept-Nov 2012: Paxil 20mg, Wellbutrin 100mg, Imovane 5mg      Nov 2012: Paxil 20mg --> 10mg
Dec 2012: Paxil 10mg-->0; 1 week later: HUGE WD symptoms. Started to get informed on the internet and back to 10mg Paxil.
Dec 2012-Jan 2013: Paxil 10mg, Wellbutrin 100mg, Imovane 2.5mg        End Jan 2013: P 9mg, W 100mg, I 2.0mg
Feb 2013: P 8mg, W 100mg, I 1.5mg      April 2013: P 7mg, W 100mg, I 1.25mg       May 2013: P 7mg, W 90mg, I 1mg    

June 2013: P 7mg, W 80mg, I 0mg       July 1/2013: P 7, W 70     July 22/2013: P 7, W 60             Aug 2013: P 7, W 50       Sept 2013: P 6.1, W 50     Oct 2013: P up to 6.3, W 50     Nov 2013: P 6.2 to 5.9, W 50      Dec 2013: P 5.9, W 40      Jan 2014: P 5.3, W40        Feb 2014: P 5.3, W 30      March-April 2014: P 5.3, W 26    May 2014: P 5.3, W 20        June 2014: P 5.3 W 15     July 2014:  P 5.3, W 14       Aug 2014: P 5.3, W up to 15     Sept 2014: P 5.3, W 14    Oct 2014: P 4.8, W 14      Nov 2014: P 4.3, W 14     Dec 2014-Jan 2015: P 3.9, W 14     Feb 2015: P 3.9, W 12    March 2015: P 3.6, W 12   April-May 2015: P 3.3, W 12    June 2015: P 3.3, W 10    July 2015: P 3.3, W 8   Aug-Sept 2015: P 3.3, W 6   Oct 2015: P 3.0, W 6   Nov 2015: P 2.7, W 6   Dec 2015: P 2.4, W 6   Jan-Feb 2016: P 2.4, W 5  March 2016: P 2.2, W 5   April 2016: P 2.2, W 4   May-June 2016: P 2.2, W 3  July 2016: P 2.2, W 2  Aug 2016: P 2.2, W 1  Sept 2016: P 2.2, W 0!!  Oct 2016: P 2.0   Nov 2016-Jan 2017: P 1.8  Feb-Mar 2017: P 1.9  April-May 2017: P 1.8   June 2017: P 1.6 July-Dec 2017: P 1.5  Jan-April 2018: P 1.6

Others: Cytomel 25mcg (thyroid), vit. C, vit D, Omega-3 fish oil, Magnesium bisglycinate , Melatonin 1mg, 81mg Aspirin, Milk peptides, L-theanine, Valericalm tincture mix, scullcap tincture, Suan Zao Ren (jujube seeds)

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I have no ideas about the above question. But Alto mentioned a friend thought Amy Yasko was at the forefront of this. I signed up for emails from a dr. who works off her philosophy, Nancy Mullan. This link is to her most recent email, about Amy's work. Makes no sense to me, but maybe it would help someone: http://us6.campaign-archive1.com/?u=4eaad9504df1b973b5cca1101&id=f59ecca681&e=f3622f7f6a

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Thank you Meimei I will try and look into it!

2000-2001: Effexor              2005-2012: Celexa, Zoloft, Effexor, desipramin, Wellbutrin, mirtazepin, Lamictal, Remeron, Abilify, nortriptylin, Cipralex, Cymbalta, and others I don't remember. Really bad side effects to all.
Sept-Nov 2012: Paxil 20mg, Wellbutrin 100mg, Imovane 5mg      Nov 2012: Paxil 20mg --> 10mg
Dec 2012: Paxil 10mg-->0; 1 week later: HUGE WD symptoms. Started to get informed on the internet and back to 10mg Paxil.
Dec 2012-Jan 2013: Paxil 10mg, Wellbutrin 100mg, Imovane 2.5mg        End Jan 2013: P 9mg, W 100mg, I 2.0mg
Feb 2013: P 8mg, W 100mg, I 1.5mg      April 2013: P 7mg, W 100mg, I 1.25mg       May 2013: P 7mg, W 90mg, I 1mg    

June 2013: P 7mg, W 80mg, I 0mg       July 1/2013: P 7, W 70     July 22/2013: P 7, W 60             Aug 2013: P 7, W 50       Sept 2013: P 6.1, W 50     Oct 2013: P up to 6.3, W 50     Nov 2013: P 6.2 to 5.9, W 50      Dec 2013: P 5.9, W 40      Jan 2014: P 5.3, W40        Feb 2014: P 5.3, W 30      March-April 2014: P 5.3, W 26    May 2014: P 5.3, W 20        June 2014: P 5.3 W 15     July 2014:  P 5.3, W 14       Aug 2014: P 5.3, W up to 15     Sept 2014: P 5.3, W 14    Oct 2014: P 4.8, W 14      Nov 2014: P 4.3, W 14     Dec 2014-Jan 2015: P 3.9, W 14     Feb 2015: P 3.9, W 12    March 2015: P 3.6, W 12   April-May 2015: P 3.3, W 12    June 2015: P 3.3, W 10    July 2015: P 3.3, W 8   Aug-Sept 2015: P 3.3, W 6   Oct 2015: P 3.0, W 6   Nov 2015: P 2.7, W 6   Dec 2015: P 2.4, W 6   Jan-Feb 2016: P 2.4, W 5  March 2016: P 2.2, W 5   April 2016: P 2.2, W 4   May-June 2016: P 2.2, W 3  July 2016: P 2.2, W 2  Aug 2016: P 2.2, W 1  Sept 2016: P 2.2, W 0!!  Oct 2016: P 2.0   Nov 2016-Jan 2017: P 1.8  Feb-Mar 2017: P 1.9  April-May 2017: P 1.8   June 2017: P 1.6 July-Dec 2017: P 1.5  Jan-April 2018: P 1.6

Others: Cytomel 25mcg (thyroid), vit. C, vit D, Omega-3 fish oil, Magnesium bisglycinate , Melatonin 1mg, 81mg Aspirin, Milk peptides, L-theanine, Valericalm tincture mix, scullcap tincture, Suan Zao Ren (jujube seeds)

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So what is more likely ? Do we suffer from over or undermethylation in withdrawal? I read somewhere that under methylers are more rare than over methylers.

Cold turkeyed Paxil in May 2012  :ph34r:

 

Finally recovered / see success story :)

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Plus an additional question : for which test do I ask when I go to my doctor? As I live in Germany it is a bit difficult for me. I translated methylation into German but only found some articles but no test. Then I searched for other keywords but had no luck either. I only found a place that is testing homocystein but I doubt it will help me. It it a vitamin test or a mutation gene test ? I am kind of lost. As much as I love the USA I don't want to fly over just to get a methylation test haha

Cold turkeyed Paxil in May 2012  :ph34r:

 

Finally recovered / see success story :)

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Plus an additional question : for which test do I ask when I go to my doctor? As I live in Germany it is a bit difficult for me. I translated methylation into German but only found some articles but no test. Then I searched for other keywords but had no luck either. I only found a place that is testing homocystein but I doubt it will help me. It it a vitamin test or a mutation gene test ? I am kind of lost. As much as I love the USA I don't want to fly over just to get a methylation test haha

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Sorry, I haven't been able to think this out. But come on, a transatlantic vacation in WD would be wonderful :). Do you know what kind of the esting you want? There has to be some place in Germany that looks at the commonly tested MTHFR snp's, because that is becoming quite common. Www.mthfr.net is a place people go to for self-directed research on it, but as Alto says it may be "out in the weeds." Kelly Brogan looks to his research. But he had a FB post once that said he realized his work was really explaining to people the genetic reasons careful lifestyle choices are so important...he's just revealing the science of why it matters. He recommends 23andme.com for testing. I am pretty sure it is available worldwide, but it is very raw data. You have to find a "genie" online and work out the meaning for yourself.

 

Ben Lynch from MTHFR.net has this page with doctors and some important warnings at the bottom http://mthfr.net/mthfr-resources/.

 

I had some snp's checked through a company called Genomind, but I think they are just in N. America. And for the record, they were normal, despite all the things that have happened, as is my homocysteine level. They would recommend Deplin, the pharma version for treating methylation problems.

 

I ended up working with people who work off Dr. Walsh's research, Mensah Medical. Dr. Walsh, whether correct or not, doesn't think the research is practically up to this detailed genetic work on a practical basis (but it may be that he doesn't thoroughly understand everyone else). His company, The Walsh Research Institute, has a link under rsources for physicians. There are some in the UK/Scandinavian area. These companies all split from a defunct company, The Pheiffer Institute, so they are closely related. The lab is at www.pyroluriatesting.com, and they say they can work anywhere and you can pay to do a phone consult with Dr. Mensah. I went there in person and also did a phone consult with my daughter. They will write a more comprehensive prescription if you see someone in person, but the phone consult has been adequate. They adamantly believe folate/folic acid is dangerous for undermethylaters, which is the opposite of everyone else who believes it is the solution. My new psychiatrist has some quick info on that perspective at www.firstnopharm.com. How people can decide between brilliant researchers who disagree is beyond me, but I will say that Dr. Walsh was a meticulous data collector and that people report a consistency with his treatment that I don't see reflected in Dr. Lynch's work. My personal opinion is that Dr. Walsh's is the "steady" approach that will someday be outdated once the more genetically-based approach is more developed, but I have absolutely no real data to support that idea.

 

Nancy Mullan, www.nancymullenmd.com, has a Tuesday night (middle of night to you) call-in Q and A. She has international access. She works closely with Amy Yasko, who is not a physician but a lead researcher. Amy Y's predominate interest is autism. I think she does offer some sort of testing, but I don't know the details. It would just be a google search away, though.

 

So I have probably just done a great job of muddying the waters for you :).

 

Another opinion that I have without data to back it up is that environmental changes (both in chemical exposure and eating patterns), at least here in the US, are leading to gut dysbiosis and impaired gut integrity being the most predominate physical cause of chronic mental illness symptoms. I tested as having mildly elevated copper levels and pyrrole disorder (practically, a marker for oxidative stress) and my (adopted, so no shared genetic material) daughter has very severe pyrrole disorder. I think they are both reflections of gut dysbiosis. Also, cortisol by itself can break down the integrity of the gut.

 

I am still very early in the learning curve on all this, so please take my opinions with a giant grain of salt.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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  • Moderator Emeritus

This is all very interesting.

 

I too was diagnosed with pyrrole disorder and undermethylation - 2 months ago.  Today  I had blood taken for the MTHFR gene mutation.  My Dr suspects (based on family history) that i am probably homozygous.  If so that will require further tweaking of my supplements.  I have been taking the Walsh protocol supplements for 6 weeks now.  I notice hugely improved sleep and improvement in motivation.  My Dr visits are quite expensive, but nowhere near the prices quoted in other threads.  I am fortunate to be able to afford treatment and supplementation.  This Dr did the training in this field 8 years ago, but has been a medical doctor for 35 years. He said he was initially very sceptical, but he is continually amazed at the results that patients receive with the nutritional supplementation - particularly for the pyrrole disorder.  So, we will see.

 

I had episode of losing sight in my left eye one night last year - it only lasted a minute or so, but it resulted in rounds of testing etc that showed no real abnormalities. However the provisional diagnosis was retinal embolism, so i was commenced on baby aspirin and taken off oestrogen.  Hello hot flashes!!!!.  The only abnormality  was  low positive results for antibodies for antiphospholipid syndome.  In my reading today on MTHFR this is mentioned.

 

I am looking to recommence tapering in a couple of months. I have enjoyed stability for almost 2 years with no tapering and feel it's time to dip my toes again. 

Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all

 

Sometimes I just cannot help myself following up things I find on the web ;-).

Has anyone here had their MTHFR gene tested and found a problem they think has contributed to depression?

 

Cheers

 

Damien

Off all SSRIs as at November 2016.

 

Been on SSRIs (mainly Lexapro) for around 15 years.

failed attempts to go cold turkey before I got proper info on it.

Over last 2 years I've slowly gone from 20 mg Lexapro to 2.5 mg Lexapro.

on 25th Jan 2015 I've now moved to home made liquid Lexapro.

Plan is to drop roughly 0.2 mg per month over the next 1-2 years.  

25th Jan 2015 2.5 mg Lexapro liquid.

24th Mar 2016 1.0 mg lexapro (crushed tablet mixed and refilled into capsules)

Planned to be at 0.0 mg lexapro by about October 2016. 

I also take 50-100 mg modafinil per day, no short term plans of stopping/tapering modafinil but will re-evaluate after I'm off lexapro. 

 

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If anyone asks what caused my depression, from now on I'm going to say....

malaria,

(I haven't had malaria but the faulty genes probably spread to give us some defence against it).

 

 

I see what you mean by a massive thread.

It is complex to follow (even with a chemistry degree)

Getting genes tested for Mthfr gene faults seems a good idea.

It probably would not tell the whole story as there are plenty of other genes all working in concert.

It is tempting to get the 23andme test and analysis it.

On the other had maybe the first step is to check Mthfr gene test and if positive start taking small amounts of methyl folate and methyl B12 then evaluate.

Simple first sounds good!

 

Cheers all

 

Damien

Off all SSRIs as at November 2016.

 

Been on SSRIs (mainly Lexapro) for around 15 years.

failed attempts to go cold turkey before I got proper info on it.

Over last 2 years I've slowly gone from 20 mg Lexapro to 2.5 mg Lexapro.

on 25th Jan 2015 I've now moved to home made liquid Lexapro.

Plan is to drop roughly 0.2 mg per month over the next 1-2 years.  

25th Jan 2015 2.5 mg Lexapro liquid.

24th Mar 2016 1.0 mg lexapro (crushed tablet mixed and refilled into capsules)

Planned to be at 0.0 mg lexapro by about October 2016. 

I also take 50-100 mg modafinil per day, no short term plans of stopping/tapering modafinil but will re-evaluate after I'm off lexapro. 

 

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  • 3 months later...

There is a test that checks for the MTHFR gene mutation causing poor absorption of ordinary folate.

 

The MTHFR mutation (there are several variations) is associated with a number of health conditions other than psychiatric, see http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/gene/MTHFR and may also cause vitamin B12 deficiency http://ajpheart.physiology.org/content/293/1/H860.full

 

Taking a folate supplement in the form of L-Methylfolate and sublingual B12 or shots alleviates the risk caused by an MTHFR mutation.

 

There are many manufacturers offering L-Methylfolate supplements. An early one was called Metafolin. They are somewhat more expensive than ordinary folate supplements, which are very cheap.

 

Recently, psychiatry jumped on the L-Methylfolate bandwagon with a study paid for by the manufacturer of Deplin, another L-Methylfolate supplement (topic here). The authors trumpeted improvement in their patients as a huge success, when they should have been deeply ashamed of misdiagnosing and treating them with antidepressants rather than L-Methylfolate for years.

 

This paper caused a fad among doctors of prescribing exorbitantly overpriced brand-name Deplin L-Methylfolate for depression.

 

However, in my opinion, this is another reprehensible example of psychiatry mistaking a medical condition for a psychiatric condition. Depression may be a symptom of low folate or vitamin B12; this condition does not deserve a psychiatric diagnosis. Everyone with "depression" should first be tested for deficiencies of this sort and recommended the appropriate supplements rather than psychiatric drugs.

 

I need to be a bit spoon fed today for some reason I can't think well.  

So there  is not test for the MTHFR... the test is for B12 and Folate levels in the blood is this correct?  Or there is a test but checking these two B12 and Folate are the place to start to see if you need the next test which would be the MTHFR test?

 

Is this how it goes or not... I know I am quoting Altos post but if anyone else knows the answer please do reply I know she is really busy... I also know the answer is on here if I could read a lot just now I feel I can't. 

Thanks B

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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BT, you can get genetic testing done to find out if you have that particular MTHFR gene mutation, which causes problems with absorption of folic acid and B12, among other things. Its done with a saliva sample. I was about to post my own question here when I saw your post.

 

Now my own question - has anyone recently used the 23and me test kit? Since they stopped providing the health reports?

 

I finally decided to order the kit and go through the process, but when I get my raw data, I'm going to have to have it analyzed or try and figure it out myself. I've found http://geneticgenie.org/  a service which appears to provide a methylation and detox analysis for a donation to the site, but does anyone have any suggestions or advice to share about getting the most out of the results.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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Thanks Petu ask Muddles about the 23 and me she did it too... and I asked my doc to do the mthfr test she said she never heard of it... it did not exist... and that in her country people who eat fava beans have some type of genetic mutation if they eat fava beans they die... 

I asked what that had to do with Mthfr she said different countries have different genetic mutations... so that is how that all went... oh my. Looks like I will not get the test.

Told her I hate fava beans ... she said a lot of people who hate a certain food actually have a problem digesting them ect... whatever. This is what I am up against... living in the dark ages while every one else is in the jet age. 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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BT, you can get genetic testing done to find out if you have that particular MTHFR gene mutation, which causes problems with absorption of folic acid and B12, among other things. Its done with a saliva sample. I was about to post my own question here when I saw your post.

 

Now my own question - has anyone recently used the 23and me test kit? Since they stopped providing the health reports?

 

I finally decided to order the kit and go through the process, but when I get my raw data, I'm going to have to have it analyzed or try and figure it out myself. I've found http://geneticgenie.org/  a service which appears to provide a methylation and detox analysis for a donation to the site, but does anyone have any suggestions or advice to share about getting the most out of the results.

I know Nancy Mullan at www.nancymullanmd.com works a lot off genetic testing. She has a free call-in session on Tuesdays, has an international number. I have never done it.

 

If you are able to read presently, I would recommend Nutrient Power by Walsh. A lot of it is about other things, but it explains many things about genetics, epigenetics, and snp's. It seems a lot of the issue is not what your individual snp's are, but how well your being is able to regulate those patterns epigenetically.

 

According to Dr. Mullan, methyl groups will stand in for snp's that are mutated. So methylation is not only about the methylation cycle, but also about your overall ability to regulate your genome. And folate can compete with methyl. And then there is the fact that some genes regulate how densely one is populated with a certain neuroreceptor, which is totally different than the gene that codes for that chemical, so it seems almost impossible to know where the problem is coming from. For example, my husband was born with something called Kallmann syndrome. Now they know it is a lack of a cellular adhesive to make one part of the hypothalamus migrate to the pituitary in fetal development. Which one would never, ever guess in how it turns out in its final expression. Then there is an activator strip in the DNA that makes genes more or less active. Amy Yasko is a leader in all this and I believe she is writing or has written a book on it. Www.coolinginflammation.blogspot.com's current entry is about the effect of the gut microbiome on genetic expression. Memsah Medical's video on MTHFR explains one perspective on that gene. This is all so new, it is almost impossible to know who is right.

 

 

So with all that about how hard it is to find meaning, the little testing I have had (Genomind) gives you ( me) at least some illusion of understanding, which is quite helpful when you (me) just feel hopelessly broken. But none of these tests look at all the snp's that make I a gene, so you never know anything for sure. They are finding new snp's in just MTHFR that have an impact in some people.

 

Another place to search is in forums for parents of kids with autism. There are some real fighters among those parents!

 

I really hope you can find out some helpful information!

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Upward of 40% of the general population has MTHFR variations. It is inconceivable that number of people cannot regulate their genomes. MTHFR variations are "normal" mutations -- they are normal, not pathological.

 

There is a great deal of interest in MTHFR as a new Theory of Everything source of many dlseases. "Treatment" or correction of MTHFR and methylation issues is largely trial-and-error; success is that you feel better -- it does not show up on tests. Whether you want to go down that rabbit hole with expensive treatments and a lot of hand-waving by a practitioner is up to you.

 

As you can tell, I am very skeptical of the value of MTHFR testing (except in a few defined situations, such as repeated miscarriages). Please see our discussions of MTHFR and eat your greens.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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BT, you can get genetic testing done to find out if you have that particular MTHFR gene mutation, which causes problems with absorption of folic acid and B12, among other things. Its done with a saliva sample. I was about to post my own question here when I saw your post.

 

Now my own question - has anyone recently used the 23and me test kit? Since they stopped providing the health reports?

 

I finally decided to order the kit and go through the process, but when I get my raw data, I'm going to have to have it analyzed or try and figure it out myself. I've found http://geneticgenie.org/  a service which appears to provide a methylation and detox analysis for a donation to the site, but does anyone have any suggestions or advice to share about getting the most out of the results.

I know Nancy Mullan at www.nancymullanmd.com works a lot off genetic testing. She has a free call-in session on Tuesdays, has an international number. I have never done it.

 

If you are able to read presently, I would recommend Nutrient Power by Walsh. A lot of it is about other things, but it explains many things about genetics, epigenetics, and snp's. It seems a lot of the issue is not what your individual snp's are, but how well your being is able to regulate those patterns epigenetically.

 

According to Dr. Mullan, methyl groups will stand in for snp's that are mutated. So methylation is not only about the methylation cycle, but also about your overall ability to regulate your genome. And folate can compete with methyl. And then there is the fact that some genes regulate how densely one is populated with a certain neuroreceptor, which is totally different than the gene that codes for that chemical, so it seems almost impossible to know where the problem is coming from. For example, my husband was born with something called Kallmann syndrome. Now they know it is a lack of a cellular adhesive to make one part of the hypothalamus migrate to the pituitary in fetal development. Which one would never, ever guess in how it turns out in its final expression. Then there is an activator strip in the DNA that makes genes more or less active. Amy Yasko is a leader in all this and I believe she is writing or has written a book on it. Www.coolinginflammation.blogspot.com's current entry is about the effect of the gut microbiome on genetic expression. Memsah Medical's video on MTHFR explains one perspective on that gene. This is all so new, it is almost impossible to know who is right.

 

 

So with all that about how hard it is to find meaning, the little testing I have had (Genomind) gives you ( me) at least some illusion of understanding, which is quite helpful when you (me) just feel hopelessly broken. But none of these tests look at all the snp's that make I a gene, so you never know anything for sure. They are finding new snp's in just MTHFR that have an impact in some people.

 

Another place to search is in forums for parents of kids with autism. There are some real fighters among those parents!

 

I really hope you can find out some helpful information!

 

I did buy and try to read the book... Walsh book they also suggest MTHFR testing it is not going to happen. I also have been to the Autistic sites and think they are doing some good for their kids and wish them well.  I would not want to be the one to get between those parents and their kids as they are like bears I truly applaud it. The other place I have noticed a lot of 23 and me type discussion is at chronic fatigue sites. Everybody is scrambling to try to get better it is an uphill battle to try to do this when you can't think straight and feel unwell.  For that reason my money lies with the parents of autistic kids to make the in roads as nothing is going to stop them and they are themselves are not sick. The same thing I thought of parents and spouses of Ad users who were having troubles.  If there is a close attachment to a loved one in trouble and an organized group the odds of getting things done go way up. 

 

Going to get some greens. 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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Walsh is "MTHFR aware" but they don't recommend testing for it. They are just trying to measure overall if methylation is balanced, and they look at copper/zinc ratios closely, and pyrrole disorder. Then they go from there, especially regarding metals, a limited understanding of gut issues, and some mitochondrial and adrenal support. Obviously many, many other things can go wrong, but that seems to be their focus. I think doing what you can with veggies is an excellent idea. Watch for adverse effects as well, everything is a clue. I recently got insomnia and lack of focus/energy on what seemed to be too much folate-rich veggies and legumes. When I think of you, BTDT, I also think of SODase, an enzyme that detoxes the mitochondria. Dr. Perlmutter says exercise helps to activate it if the gene is not as efficient as it needs to be. The whole SOD idea is from Sarah Myhill's book/website. The Diagnosis and Treatment of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Since this last car accident and breaking my foot and recent new injury to the same foot it is safe to say I am not exercising and yes I know it is a problem I need to over come every attempt has obstacles but I will one way or another eventually get around it or die trying 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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The fact that you are breathing amazes me, I don't mean that at all as a "should"!

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Thanks for that it felt like a should guess your sensitive enough to pick up on it... 

I think maybe I am a zombie now... can't be killed at all just keep walking :)

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Further confusion........just going to have to wing it and try introducing the L-methylfolate again at some later point.............little bit at a time.

 

Perhaps try and visit the Dr. who did the testing on me......which I now can't even find the results of now........I think it was type 6Again......somewhere way up the road.  I am still getting free of the salts and only 7 mos. off Lexapro.  I can barely read that kind of article never mind try and apply the information to self.  Oh well.

 

I just know that for awhile there the L-methylfolate DID help somehow.  Cognitively and physically.......as did saunas.

 

Kind of just depressing that I can no longer figure this kind of stuff out on my own........can barely balance a checkbook.

 

I just hope the luck of the draw is with me when I try B12 and L-methylfolate again.........I mean what else can I hope?

 

I was starting to think it was just another fad.   :mellow:

 

Thanks for finding and sharing though.  Good to know it's here for future reference.

Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks.

Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988.  In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm.

Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time).

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!  Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to

2016 Dec 16 medication free!!

Longer signature post here, with current supplements.

Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed.  Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022.  Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜

None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider.  My success story:  Blue skies ahead, clear sailing

 

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Yup......restarted some......see change in signature.  Really just winging it and relying on I know it helped somehow before.

Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks.

Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988.  In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm.

Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time).

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!  Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to

2016 Dec 16 medication free!!

Longer signature post here, with current supplements.

Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed.  Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022.  Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜

None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider.  My success story:  Blue skies ahead, clear sailing

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

I am generally taking about 1/2 of a 1000 mcg. capsule now each day.

 

It looks like it has been about 2 mos. of me now trying varying amts.

 

But oh.......so much better cognitively and I think depressive symptoms too.  So I will stick with the 500 mcg./day.  Yay!!

Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks.

Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988.  In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm.

Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time).

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!  Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to

2016 Dec 16 medication free!!

Longer signature post here, with current supplements.

Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed.  Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022.  Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜

None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider.  My success story:  Blue skies ahead, clear sailing

 

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My understanding of the utility of MTHFR tests agrees with this article. Please note the variations in MTHFR you might see in your genetic tests are normal variations. They are extremely common. If they were dangerous, evolution would have eliminated the individuals who carry them. Since they are so very common, they probably also have some yet-to-be-discovered advantage (such as the ability to tolerate high homocysteine).

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/09/11

 

Why you shouldn’t know too much about your own genes

By Carolyn Johnson September 11, 2015 Washington Post

 

This summer, a panel of genetics experts did something surprising: they put out a list of genetic tests people should not get.
....

There is tremendous excitement over the coming age of treatments tailored to you. And there is also this: a very long list of genes for which the best medical understanding of what they mean for our health is essentially a shrug.

 

The poster child for the uncertainty underlying much of the information in this brave new world is a gene called MTHFR. It
produces an important enzyme, but many medical geneticists simply sigh when they hear the gene's clumsy acronym name.

 

This gene has made its way on to the do-not-test list more than once, because in almost no cases do the tests have any medical utility.

 

Meanwhile, alternative medicine practitioners and Web sites have stepped up their claims that many people -- perhaps anyone with a family history of any disease at all -- should have the gene tested, because the information will help make them healthier.

 

"There’s all this excitement about genetic testing; President Obama talked about how precision medicine is going to empower all of us. So here you have these practitioners saying, 'Let me empower you,'" said Timothy Caulfield, a professor of health law and science policy at the University of Alberta. "It’s this fascinating shift from science to bunk, and the shift is made very, very quickly, and often without any real sort of regulatory oversight."

 

Here is the under-appreciated corollary to the new age of personalized medicine: just because you can do a genetic test, doesn’t mean you should.

 

There's a natural human impulse to search for explanations for health problems, and the genome provides a powerful way to deepen that search. But in addition to the genuine promise that the genome brings, it also creates a niche where science can be exploited and vulnerable people seeking answers misled.

 

“It’s a ripe area for people to claim a scientific basis for stuff that may actually not be true at all, or may have a kernel of truth,” said Robert C. Green, a medical geneticist at Brigham and Women’s Hospital and Harvard Medical School. “We in genomics and society face a choice. Are genomes going to be so democratized and unregulated that we create an entirely fraudulent industry around them?”

 

Here is what people agree on: MTHFR is a gene that creates an enzyme involved in processing the vitamin folate and inn recycling a blood chemical called homocysteine. The products of the MTHFR reaction are involved in lots of important bodily processes, such as DNA synthesis.

 

There are naturally-occurring variations in the gene that mean it functions less well in some people, sometimes causing high homocysteine levels. In early studies, those high levels were correlated with cardiovascular disease. That generated intense interest in the gene and studies of the common variants of the gene. But the balance of evidence has swung back to deem those tests of "minimal clinical utility," according to the American College of Genetics and Genomics.

 

Where the disagreement begins is whether those naturally occurring variations -- which are common, carried by as many as 40 percent of individuals in some ethnic groups -- have a health effect.

 

For MTHFR, “there was this heyday of testing when we had all this preliminary data,” said Elizabeth Varga, a genetic counselor at Nationwide Children’s Hospital in Ohio. Then larger, better designed studies began to show that the initial associations didn’t hold up.

 

“So really, the medical community has done an about-face, and that confuses people," Varga said.

 

....the MTHFR saga highlights something a little more nuanced than a person wrestling with the possibility that they are at elevated risk for Alzheimer’s disease. There are more than 3,000 published papers examining this one gene, often of varying quality, and in connection with a slew of frightening diseases. Critics of the test worry that someone without medical training may not understand how to evaluate the nuanced and often contradictory evidence.

....

Amanda Webb's quest to understand her 11-year-old daughter’s unidentified sickness has been less straightforward. Webb, 37, of Upper Arlington, Ohio, was alarmed when she found out her daughter carried two variants of MTHFR and wondered if it was the key to understanding her daughter's frequent infections with walking pneumonia. She soon found herself surrounded by contradictions. Web sites had all sorts of information about the gene, but Webb was skeptical of much of it and found she had to be very picky about what she believed. She called Varga and learned, to her disappointment, that the test didn't point to any treatment. When she went to holistic doctors, they told her to change her daughter’s diet and take more supplements.
....

Half a dozen medical specialists contacted for this story said MTHFR testing doesn't reveal actionable information and that while there may be occasional rare exceptions, it should not be done.

....
But the test is still ordered by many physicians and sought out by patients. And there are many online forums and Web sites that say the information is useful. One source that many patients with questions stumble on is run by Ben Lynch, a naturopathic practitioner from Seattle. Lynch owns a company that sells supplements. He also runs MTHFR.net, a Web site that provides information about the gene and provides health recommendations -- many of which are uncontroversial, such as eating more leafy vegetables and exercise. But he also recommends vitamin supplements, and acknowledged this was a conflict of interest in an interview.

 

Asked about the absence of large, randomized trials to back up his recommendations, Lynch described his research as drawing heavily on published scientific papers and his own knowledge of biochemistry.

 

“I’m saying we can’t wait for research to prove what I’m doing,” Lynch said.
....
Asked whether there are other partially-understood genes where a confusing situation could arise, Khoury had a glib answer.

"Let put it simply,” Khoury said. “99 percent or more of the genome falls there.”

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Note: I am heterozygous for the “thermolabile” variant c.665C T and c.1286A. I have high homocysteine. I am not the least bit worried about this.

 

Genetics in Medicine (2013) 15, 153–156 doi:10.1038/gim.2012.165

ACMG Practice Guideline: lack of evidence for MTHFR polymorphism testing
Scott E. Hickey MD, FACMG, Cynthia J. Curry MD, FACMG & Helga V. Toriello PhD, FACMG

Published online 03 January 2013

 

Abstract and free full text at http://www.nature.com/gim/journal/v15/n2/full/gim2012165a.html

 

MTHFR polymorphism testing is frequently ordered by physicians as part of the clinical evaluation for thrombophilia. It was previously hypothesized that reduced enzyme activity of MTHFR led to mild hyperhomocysteinemia which led to an increased risk for venous thromboembolism, coronary heart disease, and recurrent pregnancy loss. Recent meta-analyses have disproven an association between hyperhomocysteinemia and risk for coronary heart disease and between MTHFR polymorphism status and risk for venous thromboembolism.

 

There is growing evidence that MTHFR polymorphism testing has minimal clinical utility and, therefore should not be ordered as a part of a routine evaluation for thrombophilia.

 

The 5,10-methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase (MTHFR) enzyme catalyzes the conversion of 5,10-methylenetetrahydrofolate to 5-methyltetrahydrofolate, the primary circulatory form of folate, and a cosubstrate for homocysteine remethylation to methionine. Methionine is subsequently converted to S-adenosylmethionine, which serves as an essential methyl donor in reactions involving nucleic acids, proteins, and many other biological compounds. There are two commonly recognized polymorphic variants in the gene encoding for this enzyme: the “thermolabile” variant c.665Cglyph.gifT (p.Ala222Val), historically more commonly referred to as C677T, and the c.1286Aglyph.gifC (p.Glu429Ala) variant; both are missense changes that are known to decrease enzyme activity.1,2 It is estimated that >25% of Hispanics and between 10 and 15% of North American Caucasians are homozygous for the “thermolabile” variant.3 Variants c.665Cglyph.gifT and c.1286Aglyph.gifC are in linkage disequilibrium with each another, and therefore a combination of both variants is usually seen only in individuals who are compound heterozygotes in trans.4 Homozygosity for one variant in combination with heterozygosity for the other variant is rare.5 Targeted mutation analysis for the c.665Cglyph.gifT and c.1286Aglyph.gifC variants is available in more than 50 Clinical Laboratory Improvement Amendments–certified laboratories in the United States.

 

Reduced enzyme activity of MTHFR is a genetic risk factor for hyperhomocysteinemia, especially in the presence of low serum folate levels.6,7,8 Mild to moderate hyperhomocysteinemia has been identified as a risk factor for venous thrombosis9,10 and has been associated with other cardiovascular diseases, such as coronary artery disease.11,12,13 Hyperhomocysteinemia is multifactorial, involving a combination of genetic, physiologic, and environmental factors.3,14 Several enzymes with vitamin B cofactors—including vitamin B6, vitamin B12, and folate—are involved in regulating homocysteine levels. Individuals who are MTHFR polymorphism homozygotes may have hyperhomocysteinemia, usually to a mild or moderate degree of uncertain clinical significance. As mentioned, homocysteine is associated with coronary artery disease, although this appears to be independent of MTHFR genotype status. 15 Although B vitamin supplementation has been shown to decrease plasma homocysteine levels, the effect on cardiovascular end points has been mostly negative.16,17,18 Some authors have found mild significant effects on stroke;16,18 however, a meta-analysis of homocysteine-lowering trials did not find evidence that supplementation with B vitamins, including folic acid, resulted in any decrease in cardiovascular events or mortality.19 Furthermore, a more recent meta-analysis of unpublished data sets has cast doubts on the hypothesis that lifelong moderate homocysteine elevation has any effect on cardiovascular disease, raising the possibility that publication bias accounted for the previously observed aggregate association.20

 

The potential associations between MTHFR genotype status and a number of medical complications have been evaluated using methodologies such as case–control, cohort, Mendelian randomization, and meta-analysis. A modest positive association has been found between the MTHFR “thermolabile” polymorphism and many different medical complications, including, but not limited to, thromboembolic disease (in non-North-American populations only), 21,22 stroke,23,24,25,26,27 aneurysm,28 peripheral artery disease,29 migraine,30 hypertension,31,32 recurrent pregnancy loss,33,34 male infertility,35,36 risk for offspring with neural tube defects,37,38 certain cancers,39,40,41 neuropsychiatric disease,42 and chemotherapy toxicity.43,44 Conversely, many other studies looking at similar complications found no statistical association.45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52 The c.1286A C variant has been studied less, but current evidence suggests that it is milder than the “thermolabile” variant.53,54,55,56 Preliminary findings in combined genotypes have found that they are not significantly different from controls.57,58

 

Because MTHFR polymorphism is only one of many factors contributing to the overall clinical picture, the utility of this testing is currently ambiguous. Furthermore, US-mandated fortification of grain products with folic acid to decrease the incidence of neural tube defects has resulted in increased serum folate concentrations and lowered serum total homocysteine levels in the general population.59 This public health initiative may be incidentally reducing some of the perceived risk associated with MTHFR polymorphisms. 60,61 This is hypothesized to be one reason that an association between the “thermolabile” variant and venous thromboembolism is no longer observed in the North-American population.21

 

The American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists does not recommend the measurement of homocysteine or MTHFR polymorphisms in the evaluation of the etiology of venous thromboembolism. 62 The British Committee for Standards in Haematology and the British Society for Haematology do not include MTHFR polymorphism testing as part of their clinical guidelines for heritable thrombophilia testing. 63 The ACMG consensus statement on factor V Leiden testing briefly references the limited clinical utility of MTHFR polymorphism testing and that homocysteine measurement may be more informative. 64

 

A medical geneticist may be asked to evaluate a patient who has tested positive, either heterozygous or homozygous, for an MTHFR polymorphism (Box 1). The geneticist should assess the information given to the family by the previous provider, including the interpretation pertaining to causality for presenting symptoms. It is imperative that the geneticist ensure that patients have received thorough and appropriate evaluations for their symptoms because it is not uncommon that medical problems are incorrectly attributed to positive MTHFR status. Often, referral to a hematologist or maternal–fetal medicine specialist for further evaluation of their symptoms is indicated.

 

Once a patient has been found to carry one or more MTHFR polymorphisms, genetic counseling is very difficult, given the vast medical literature exploring possible associations with a wide variety of diseases. In general, the following genotypes currently appear unlikely to be of clinical significance: “thermolabile” variant c.665C T heterozygote, c.1286A  C homozygote, or (c.665C  T); (c.1286A  C) compound heterozygote. There is theoretical reason to be concerned that the rare individuals with triple variant MTHFR genotypes (i.e., individuals who are homozygous for one variant and heterozygous for the other) may have resulting clinical risks, although that is currently speculative.

 

A fasting total plasma homocysteine level may be obtained in any patient who is homozygous for the “thermolabile” variant, in order to provide more information for counseling. For the purpose of laboratory interpretation, it should be noted that total homocysteine levels increase with age and are lower in the pregnant population.65,66 Genetic counseling should take into account the clinical reason for which the test was performed. Many studies have revealed discrepant findings between Caucasians and Asians.21,35,51 It seems most likely that this is related to dietary factors, such as folic acid intake; however; caution should be applied when generalizing the following recommendations to the Asian-American population.

....
....Patients should be counseled that it is important to provide their MTHFR genotype status to any physician who is considering starting them on types of chemotherapy whose activity depends on intracellular concentration of folate (e.g., methotrexate). In individuals who have a known thrombophilia, such as factor V Leiden or prothrombin c.*97G  A, most available studies support the contention that MTHFR genotype status does not alter their thrombotic risk to a clinically significant degree. 72

 

An at-risk individual may elect to take a daily vitamin B supplement, such as a multivitamin or prenatal vitamin, although there is currently no evidence that specific treatments reduce risks associated with hyperhomocysteinemia or MTHFR genotype status. Because folic acid and vitamin B12 toxicities are rare, the risks associated with daily supplementation are low. An individual who elects to take supplemental pyridoxine, however, should be aware of the risk for ataxia and sensory neuropathy. 70
 

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Okay!  I was able to follow most of that.......will come back later, as I did not check out all the links,  and thankyou.  I am presently taking approximately 333 mcg. of Life Extensions.......L-methyl for the past month.  I think my homocysteine has been normal in past labs.

 

It all sounds pretty moot though as far as much to heed......the testing, the variations.

 

Still have to find the correct B12 supplement somewhere as mine is cyanocobalamin, which, frankly..........is sounding deadly.......the cyano part.  However, it's calming properties have proved helpful at bedtime.

 

And in to see a Dr. next week........same old......not really a naturopath........but hopefully we can work out some judicious labs for my next visit.........as well as get a copy of my original test of MTHRF status.  Or.......I will find my copy!

 

For me I suppose.......as the testing has already been done, and I think.......although am not certain..... that I have had some benefit from the L-methyl.........as far as clarity and cognition.........it definitely deserves further study.

 

My hope, I think, for now lies in finding a better dietary plan of action going forward.........not gagging on my supplements yet anyway...........

Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks.

Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988.  In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm.

Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time).

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!  Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to

2016 Dec 16 medication free!!

Longer signature post here, with current supplements.

Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed.  Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022.  Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜

None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider.  My success story:  Blue skies ahead, clear sailing

 

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