EternalOptimist: 17 days on generic remeron, want off

[EternalOptimist]

Petu:

App your ack the pressure tho sorry you have it tho good it gets better.

Lost lot of. Uncle tone, again, going thru this. That weakness sucks!

I've been exercise intolerant since 1989 with onset of EBV but got much stronger over the years

But, alas, if push, then crash, a bad habit. May you get to the gym and regain your strength when you can.

 

Too, I identify with your comments on computer use, etc, Finding something interesting is a challenge right now,

especially in the Morns.

So I stay at this level til I stabilize. Wonder if mornings will improve while on ths med..?

Best to you.

[EternalOptimist]

Petu, dang iPad...wrote muscle tone, or meant to, but came out Uncle! LOL

[moodyblues78]

I thought that Uncle Tone was some SA slang. I bought it 

[EternalOptimist]

LOL MB. I try to edit best i can...glad I am not applying for a job from this iPad.

Good day to you

[EternalOptimist]

P.s. M.B. what's SA?

[moodyblues78]

Surviving Antidepressants dot org 

[EternalOptimist]

Oh, of course! :-) thnx

[EternalOptimist]

Anyone try theroadbackprotocol.org ?

 

If you would like to receive the book How to Get Off Psychoactive Drugs Safely for free as a pdf eBook or the book 3 Steps to Quit Smoking Without Withdrawal, click here and you will be taken to our free books page.

 

The supplements listed in this chapter are available throughout the world. Click here for list of distributors. If you are in the United States or Canada the supplements are at 50% off at the moment.

 

Chapter 11 

 

Immediate Release

Antidepressant Pre-Taper

 

Please Note: This pre-taper is for individuals taking an Immediate Release antidepressant.

 

Starting Your Pre-Taper

 

If you have not read the entire chapter “General Pre-Tapering and Tapering Instructions,” please do so before continuing with this chapter. Reading and understanding the chapter “General Pre-Tapering and Tapering Instructions” is vital before starting the pre-taper.

 

You may already be in withdrawal before you found The Road Back Program. Please hang in there; relief can come very quickly for you. Most people are never able to get off an antidepressant due to the head symptoms that are common with reducing this type of medication.

 

Your pre-taper is a little different than for a time release antidepressant.

 

The American Medical Association now acknowledges at least 10% of the people that try to get off an antidepressant will not be successful due to the withdrawal side effects. The 10% is probably higher with a time-release antidepressant. We want you to know this so you know it is not just you. Sorry to say, most physicians have never read the AMA report on antidepressant withdrawal and they have not realized that 1 out of every 10 of their patients they have prescribed an antidepressant to will have this withdrawal problem unless they begin doing something differently.

 

Head side effects are the ones that stop most people from being able to get off an antidepressant. An electrical brain zap, dizziness and other head symptoms are the problem. For The Road Back, these debilitating head side effects are easy to stop and stop quickly. If you have not started to taper the antidepressant yet, using this Antidepressant Pre-taper should stop the head symptoms from even starting.  If you have already started to taper the antidepressant and have these head symptoms, the right type of omega 3 fish oil will get you back on your feet quickly.

 

The supplements that are required for the immediate release antidepressant withdrawal program are the Neuro Endue Mini, JNK Capsules, Omega 3 Supreme TG, and vitamin E.

 

You or your physician might ask, “what does vitamin E have to do with withdrawal” or “are you trying to tell me vitamin E will help with withdrawal side effects?”

 

Here is the answer – Vitamin E will not help with withdrawal symptoms at all. When a person takes omega 3 fish oil, the omega 3 will deplete vitamin E from the body and use the vitamin E to help with absorption. You will become deficient in vitamin E if you take fish oil daily and do not supplement with vitamin E. That is the only reason why vitamin E is in this program.

 

Make sure to keep your Daily Journal up-to-date and use graphs so you can visually see the changes taking place with you.

 

What to do:

 

Get with your prescribing physician and/or pharmacist and layout your drug taper schedule.

 

Plan out the second and third reduction of the medication as well at this point to ensure you are ready with the correct dosages of the drug.

 

Once you have read all of the pre-taper section proceed to the chapter, How to Taper Antidepressants and fully read it as well.

 

The Pre-Taper

 

For the next 7-days you will be doing your pre-taper. You do not reduce your antidepressant during the pre-taper but, to state again, this is the time to also plan out the reduction phase of the drug which starts after the seven days of the pre-taper are completed.

 

Goal of Antidepressant Pre-taper

 

If anxiety is present, have it eliminated

 

If fatigue is present, have it eliminated

 

If flu like symptom are present, have them eliminated

 

If depression is present, have it eliminated

 

Eliminate all other antidepressant side effects

 

Set up the body correctly to eliminate potential withdrawal symptoms.

 

The goal of the pre-taper may seem unobtainable to you at this moment, but after you experience a day to two of taking the supplements used with this program, you should begin to experience the changes we suggest will happen. It is not out of character for people to feel as though they are no longer even on an antidepressant as all side effects vanish quickly.

 

Supplements You Will Take:

 

Neuro Endure Mini

 

JNK Capsules

 

Omega 3 Supreme TG

 

Vitamin E

 

Anxiety or Insomnia

 

If you have daytime anxieties include the Body Calm Daytime Relief and if you have insomnia include the Body Calm Supreme With Melatonin or use the Body Calm Supreme Melatonin Free.

 

Fatigue

 

If you have fatigue, you can increase the Neuro Endure Mini and it should handle that rather well.

 

DAY ONE Action:

 

Rate your daytime anxiety, panic attacks, insomnia and other side effects. Use the Daily Journal and rate anxiety, sleep and any additional symptoms you may be experiencing from 1 to 10. Rate with number 10 being the worst and number 1 being no side effect or symptom remaining.

 

Rate the previous night’s sleep first thing the next morning. Rate the daytime anxiety just before bedtime of that day.

 

If you take the antidepressant first  thing  in  the  morning, take the medication  as normal and 1 hour later take the morning supplements.

 

How to do the Pre-Taper

 

Supplements:

 

JNK – Take 1 capsule of the JNK supplement in mid-morning.

 

Omega 3 Supreme TG – Take 1 Omega 3 Supreme TG in the morning and 1 more at noon.

 

Vitamin E – Take 400 i.u. of vitamin E along with the Omega 3 Supreme TG in the morning.

 

Neuro Endure Mini – Take 1 tablet 3 times a day 5 hours apart.

 

Optional Supplements For Specific Conditions

 

Anxiety or Insomnia

 

Anxiety:

 

Body Calm Daytime Relief - 2 hours after the morning Neuro Endure Mini, take 1 capsule of Body Calm Daytime Relief.

 

Take an additional capsule of every 4 hours during the day and evening. You can increase to 2 capsules if necessary. You can also take the every 2 hours if necessary.

 

Body Calm Supreme With Melatonin or Melatonin Free – 15-minutes before bedtime take 1 capsule. If sleep has not improved within 3 days increase to 2 capsules.

 

Fatigue

 

If you have fatigue, the Neuro Endure Mini should handle it fine. You can increase to 4 tablets 3 times a day 5 hours apart if necessary.

 

How to Adjust the Supplements if Needed

 

JNK – You can take additional capsules in the afternoon if desired. The best way to judge if the second amount is needed would be; if the morning JNK makes a wonderful change in how you feel but around noon or so you feel a letdown.

 

Some people take 1 or 2 capsules at noon and that gets them over this period, although very few need more capsules in the late day.

 

Neuro Endure Mini – If you feel the need to increase, only increase by 1 tablet every 7 days. Once you feel a positive change to the Neuro Endure Mini do not increase any further.

 

Neuro Endure Mini is formulated to be taken 3 times a day, starting in the morning and twice more during the day, 5 hours apart. So, 1 tablet in the morning, 5 hours later another tablet and another tablet again in 5 hours.

 

Omega 3  Supreme TG – All head symptoms,  except headaches,  when coming off an antidepressant are handled by the Omega 3 Supreme TG. If you are feeling any symptoms in the head, increase the Omega 3 Supreme TG to 2 softgels in the morning and 2 additional softgels at noon. If symptoms persist after this increase, raise the amount of Omega 3 Supreme TG to 5 softgels in the morning and 5 at noon. A few people have needed to increase to 6 softgels in the morning and at noon to get the head symptoms under control. Once the head symptoms are back under control reduce the Omega 3 Supreme TG back down to the 3 softgels in the morning and the 3 softgels at noon. Check with your doctor before increasing the Omega 3 fish oil if you are taking heart medication or blood pressure medication.

 

Body Calm Daytime Relief – You can take as many as 2 capsules every 2-hours if needed.

 

Body Calm Supreme - Usually 1 capsule will do the trick for sleep. You can increase to 2 capsules. The capsule dissolves in 15-minutes after swallowing. If you need to take this supplement a little earlier that is fine.

 

Finishing the Pre-Taper

 

Do the pre-taper for 7-full days. Do not cut the pre-taper short no matter how well you may feel after a few days. Give your body a chance to balance, give yourself the chance to fully experience relief before you tackle the reduction of the antidepressant.

 

If you wish to stay on the pre-taper for an extended time, that is fine to do, many have. You may have experienced extreme trauma the last time you tried to get off the antidepressant and the apprehension you may feel now is normal, not a mental disorder.

 

This is your time; do not let yourself get rushed by your physician or by the information in this book. The drug manufacturer, the F.D.A., and even the American Medical Association state a gradual reduction of the medication is required. We cannot stress enough, take your time. This is when the tortoise beats the hare to the finish line.

 

If you need any assistance along the way or have any questions send an e-mail to info@theroadback.org

 

 

[wulfgar]

No, i have read through their site a few times. There are things that puts me of.

- They are pushing specific products which rings my "push back" alarm bell and also triggers my elixir/tincture cure all scam sensor.

 

- Just eliminating anxiety, depression and side effects. They can not be simply eliminated by a magic supplement.

 

- Neuro endure mini contains bacopa which is a GABA effecting herb, agonist or some such. I personally want to stay away from that.

 

That said there might be something to learn. Im going to look in to the "omega-3 depletes vitamin E statement". Missed that before.

 

(I personally would like to have a law that puts those responsible for scamming people with tinnitus and other nasty problems in jail for life. I want to reopen purgatory for them. Jail is not enough. Have not yet decided if this site is a candidate for purgatory yet..)

[moodyblues78]

My fish oil capsules have vitamins E and D too.

 

I have had very few brain zaps so I guess it helps those go away. Doesn`t have any effect on the anxiety though..

[wulfgar]

Body Calm Daytime Relief contains:

 

GABA. Gaba probably do not cross the blood brain barrier, otherwise i would be a very bad idea. It will elevate GABA in your body though so it might help short term with physical effects of benzo withdrawal, but the catch would then bee that this would just delay healing of the receptors in your body.

 

Passion flower. Works on GABA and reaches your brain. Not sure its good taking this.

 

Montmorency tart cherry. Contains melatonin. Taking this daytime might just probably put you in a more relaxed state, but would mess your HPA-axis up, as you normally need melatonin at night for sleep, and not during the day.

 

Theanine. Might work. Never tried theanine.

 

For me this is not a product i would use. I can se how short term i would get relief (and they can earn money on me) but long term i would probably end up reinstating zopiclone.

 

Analyzing this product puts them one step closer to purgatory...

[wulfgar]

Moodyblues and EternalOptimist. My omega-3 also contains vitamin E. Looks like a good omega-3 product contains vitamin e in adequate quantity so supplementing additional vitamin E for this purpose is not needed. There seems to be a subtle depletion effect of antioxidants by the fish oil, but why only vitamin E i cant find though.

[moodyblues78]

Theanine. Might work. Never tried theanine.

 

 

 

Green tea is low in caffeine and has got L-Theanine. I stopped drinking coffee. Now drink 2-3 cups of green tea every day. Less headaches is the biggest difference I noticed. Not much else.

[EternalOptimist]

App the discussion , thnx

I am spending more time curled up with weakness....mood has been better.

Can barely get out of bed , end up on couch after feeding cats...maybe due to other health factors but

Am concerned. Then in.middle of this yest had window.

Head pressure is off the wall. Typing this with one finger laying on side, like most posts. Others

This ill?

[wulfgar]

I have been quite ill. Much better nowadays, cant say that I'm feeling good though.

Do you have a head ache or feel some neck stiffness? Can you shake your head in a no gesture without head ache pain? How much sleep in the last few days?

[EternalOptimist]

Hi W.

I always have head pressure and it has been significant to severe lately.

Head sometimes feels like it is heavy, like stone.

Sleeping 5-6 hrs a night . I take 1/2 tsp mag with the med. don't know how much it helps

or affects the morn sx.

Glad u r better tho not feeling good is disappointing, I'm sure.

When u r quite ill, r u physically forced to lay own a lot? Hope not.

Thnx

P.S. u r in Nordic? What time is it there or day?

[EternalOptimist]

Anybody do research on hexane, used to process fish oil?

[EternalOptimist]

Do you have a head ache or feel some neck stiffness? Can you shake your head in a no gesture without head ache pain? ?

p.s.s. Sorry, didn't answer your ? W. on shaking my head. Tried it, doesn't change Sx but remember years ago when on and then off Xanax, that nodding ny head caused had Sx to increase some.

[wulfgar]

You and me are 6 hours apart. I get up 6 hours before you do, and go to bed 6 hours before you. Not all that much difference.

5-6 hours of sleep is not bad, there could be healing in that! Im half-ish bed ridden right now. Dizziness increases with the amount of time I'm up. The head shaking thing and stif neck was a check for complications from lamictal which you seems to not have.

 

I looked into hexane when i got a bad batch of coconut fat. It tasted gasoline/petroleum and discovered that hexane is used (by the cheap bastards) to extract about 10% more fat from the coconut mulch. I had bought a ecological cold pressed coconut fat which should not include hexane, and they denied using hexane, which of course they must have done!

 

There is a lot of this kind of unhealthy manufacturing trix to increase yield. There is always some solvent left in the products. Hexane toxicity is relatively low though, and if they have done a proper job of evaporating the hexane it should be ok.

 

What specifics do you want to know about hexane?

[EternalOptimist]

Golly, gee, think you did a thorough job of answering my question. I am going to call manuf. of one I am using.

MAybe if is still safe.

You seem considerably knowledgeable about meds, supps, etc. , thanks for sharing.

I was on lamictal 12 days...low dose, so hope that is not a factor.

Amazing how we're all so different...I've friends on AD's no problem.

Some get off Benzos no problem. Think it goes back to genetics.

6 hrs, huh? ok.

Bsst

[wulfgar]

Some meds and supplements i have researched a lot. Have several bags of supplements pills that i have tried and failed with. I have searched so hard and for such a long time for anything that could help me with my problems. The only thing I found in regards to my health is my vitamin d deficiency, and that is corrected now and i believe it gave me a big improvement. Still found a lot of help through this forum. It seems that the most unremarkable supplements like magnesium and omega-3 is the best. Most AD:s i know next to nothing about though. My own poisons Mirtazapine and Zopiclone i have researched in absurdum.

 

It is amazing how different our reactions to ad:s can be! There are also similarities as well though. What feels like dizziness to me might feel like brain fog to someone else. Your head pressure could be almost the same as my shriveled crampy brain feeling.

 

I am unsure if lamictal could have caused more neuro upset in your case. Read some descriptions about lamictal and i could not understand all its workings. What i did understand is that it antagonize 5-ht3 serotonin receptor and adrenaline receptors, so that could possibly contribute a little to some WD:s.

 

Reading stories on this forum, finding that I'm not alone have been so very very good for me and has removed some of my loneliness. I hope I also can contribute in some way, even though my english is not al that good.

 

No mater which drugs caused this though what maters is to allow for time to heal, to wait this thing out, finding focus on positive things if possible, and in the en find new ways onward.

[wulfgar]

I did some bad calculations. We are 9 hour apart. Blame it on the meds! Btw, you live in one of my top want-to-live in parts of the world! (Any part of the world except greenland and the polar region would be better right now though!)

[EternalOptimist]

Ah, I see. Where is it you live? What is Nordic? It's a bit crowded here but love the weather .

[wulfgar]

The weather is definitely one of the likes. Nordic countries is the north european countries Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden, also Greenland and Svalbard. Also called Scandinavia. High up on the globe. Its like where santa clause lives.

[moodyblues78]

Who is Svalbard??

[wulfgar]

He's a cold one, that Svalbard fella!

Svalbard is a big island group located north of Norway. Its bigger than Denmark in size, not many live there though.

[moodyblues78]

Ah. I remember him now.

[EternalOptimist]

W., thought that was, basically, the countries called Nordic, just never heard the area called Nordic by itself. Thnx

 

May have done a stupid thing, cause I feel so awful on this drug and my mood has been ok last few days, I chipped a little off the med last night. So not up to figure out the liquid process tho have the items, was in that stupor. Oh, feel soooo weird , morose like, flat .

Keep thinking being on ths such short time need to get off. Almost fe els like a nasty trap.

[EternalOptimist]

Do others in remeron w/d experience daytime sleepiness at lower doses? Thnx

[wulfgar]

No, sleepiness is some thing i absolutely long for, i would give all i own for that. That have been a problem all my life though, to alert/awake. I am tardy/lethargic in the mornings though.

[EternalOptimist]

I M sorry, Wulfgar, for your insomnia...that is tough. Don't know if this helps but this sleepiness doesn't feel good but like drug induced.

[EternalOptimist]

I have the supplies to water taper now and have a question.

 

I am at 7.5mg mitrazapine (half a pill as my doc won't prescribe the 7.5 mg pill..yet, anyway)...

so I mash the pill, put it into the cylinder, fill it up to 100ml, then how can I be sure the pill is properly suspended? 

The cylinder has no lid.  So when properly suspended, then take 10ml out with a syringe and drink the rest.  

Seems easy but being sure the pill is equally distributed in the water concerns me, thank you.  

[EternalOptimist]

I was able to read more on how to suspend the med in water . I think I get it til I read the lengthy explanation and get confused again.

How to take out .75 mg (10%)?

[moodyblues78]

So you are about to taper 10% from your current 7,5mg dose?

 

I think you are doing it right. 7,5mg to 100ml minus 10ml (or 10%) = 6,75mg.

 

Right?

[EternalOptimist]

MB, the calc is right but I can't figure it out on the syringe or cylinder...those little lines.

I feel so toxic on ths drug...never felt stabilized tho it has gotten a bit better but am so sick and week.

Fear going back to where I was last Fall ere the H. Visit. Feel I should get off quicker but , well, torn.

 

How r u?

[EternalOptimist]

Oh, so 10 ml would equal the 6.75 mg. that is how my brain is working.