Jump to content

Catalyzt Considering Remeron Pulse


Catalyzt

Recommended Posts

You may remember me, Alto, I've posted a few times before, and over at BoringOldMan, always appreciated your input, and enjoyed this forum.

 

Okay, this may seem strange, but I am considering a quick series of "pulses" with Remeron to attempt reset some bad symptoms -- akathisia and mixed states -- that started after a terrible experience with Flagyl and a flare-up of my immune disorder, which is just like lupus, but a different antibody.

 

The symptoms are severe enough to make it difficult to concentrate at work-- I can attend to activities of daily living, but I have no self confidence.  Like, my supervisor will say, "Holy crap, you did a great job with that case-- but I'm concerned because you are so damn hard on yourself."  I don't care about the crying every morning, that's normal and part of life... but there are some very tricky plays I have to make in the next few weeks.  There is a new job I will be applying for which I desperately need, and I cannot-- canNOT-- show any lack of confidence.  Also, I have to get my father into an assisted living facility, and it's very hard to mange the constant calls with elder care facilities and adult protective services, and to think clearly about doing all the right steps in the right order to get him SSI benefits, etc.  I'm too distracted.  (20% of my support system also just became unavailable, though that's a separate issue.)

 

I know this is potentially dangerous, and I do not subscribe to the "chemical imbalance" theory of depression.  This would be something of a crap shoot-- but if I was going to try anything, I think Remeron is the candidate, because it's not an SSRI or SNRI, insomnia is a big part of the picture here, and contributes to the mixed states.  I only sleep about 4 hours a night.

 

I have been on Lorazepam 1 mg every day and Ambien 10 mg about 4 times a week. for... oh, about 10 years.  They work well for me, usually, and frankly, I'm not that worried about those two... if I skip a day of either one, it's not a big deal.  I kind of like skipping a day of Ativan, I get a little rush of energy, sort of like cocaine, which I dimly remember from the '80s, only mellower and without the crash, because you're stopping a drug, not starting it.  I know that Lorazepam is supposed to be so addictive you go into convulsions or whatever, but that just has not been my experience.  I know that probably sounds completely insane!  This post is not about those two drugs, though they certainly are not excluded from any discussion, I'm just providing that as background information.

 

I react very badly to SSRIs, 17 days of Paxil gave me a terrible sexual arousal disorder for over four years, fortunately that got repaired with group therapy about 4 years ago, very few residual symptoms.  So I am very, very wary of trying anything.

 

I have read a lot of literature that generally suggests that we have an adaptive compensatory response to all antidepressants, that doses prescribed are generally way too high, and the course of treatment is way too long.

 

What I am considering is something like this:

 

Week 1: Low dose Remeron on Saturday and Sunday night to restore sleep, none on Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday, because I work Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, and then a dose Thursday night, with Friday off.

 

Week 2: Same thing.

 

Week 3: Dose on Sunday and Thursday only.

 

Week 4: Same thing.

 

Week 5: Dose on Sunday

 

Week 6: Same thing.

 

Week 7: No drugs.

 

I'm hoping to just give myself enough of a nudge to crack this mixed state and get through the next month or two.  The goal is to not give my brain time to set up a compensatory response.

 

I also exercise intensely-- I'm in my mid 50s and I'm swimming 3/4 of a mile 4-5 times a week, (pretty fast, too) hiking once a week, mountain biking twice a week, and doing some light weight work.  When I have time, I also body board and ski, even though I'm on blood thinners, which is a little manic and crazy, but I'm very careful, and the exercise is critical in avoiding mood swings that come with my illness.

 

I'm not sure I can get through the next month on so little sleep.

 

Very interested in your thoughts.

Link to comment
  • Administrator

Hello, Catalyzt.

 

I have never heard of Remeron being taken this way and for this reason. But -- here are some people on crazyboards talking about taking it as needed for sleep http://www.crazyboards.org/forums/index.php/topic/4657-remeron-news-reviews-questions/

 

Unless you want to experiment with chemical flagellation, I cannot imagine why you would want to try to jolt yourself out of akathisia and "mixed states" by intermittently taking Remeron just to see what happens.

 

However, depressive symptoms can be a side effect of benzos, as can disordered sleep. It could be your benzo usage has finally gone south on you and you have a challenge ahead in reducing it.

 

If you've developed a physiological dependency to benzos and skipped doses -- with, as you've described it, mild withdrawal symptoms -- you may have triggered a neurological hypersensitivity that spells the end of your honeymoon with benzos.

 

What we've found is many people with injured nervous systems do well with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

I urge you to try these first to calm your nervous system before jolting it with intermittent experimental doses of any psychotropic.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment

Hey, Allo,

 

Yeah, the "Remeron pulse" is probably a stupid idea-- the kind of idea one should think of, chuckle at, and promptly forget!

 

I understand your feeling about benzos, and I'm sure I have some kind of dependence on them.  I'm just not real worried about it, and I don't think that's the cause of the mixed state/depression.... sure, it's on the list of possibilities, but pretty far down the list. 
 

I've had these states before I ever was on any psychotropic medication whatsoever, they are usually not that bad-- but there were two or three really, really bad ones, long before the benzos, and the worst had to do with a breakup and a job situation at the same time in '87.  This one feels just as intense at its worst, but fortunately, it's not constant like the episode in '87.  Back then, I was indoors for days on end smoking cigarettes with the shades down.  This time around, it goes away completely for 8 to 10 hours on some days because I've developed better coping mechanisms-- exercise and activating other parts of my social network, etc.  I have really good stretches on some days-- usually after workouts-- when I'm driving around listening to music and feeling good.

 

The situational stressors I am facing now are similar to '87.  I did lose two close friends recently, one who I can't see due to his alcoholism and abusive behavior, and another has stopped speaking to me for no reason I can figure (she was kind of like a little sister to me for five years, I am an only child and we have no children, and I am very attached to her.)  In addition to that, I have the job and elder care situations as noted above, both slow-motion crises that have been going on for years which would make anyone crazy.

 

I think your points are really well taken, and I will try the magnesium.  I would be very careful with fish oil right now because of Fukushima; no one should be eating anything that comes from fish anywhere in the Pacific.  Sure, the concentrations are low, but as an internal emitter, it doesn't take much Strontium or Cesium to be a game-ender, and it's started showing up on the Northwest coast.  Very sad. 

 

Thanks so much.  I knew this was an idiotic concept, I think I just wanted you to talk me out of it! 

 

--Cat

Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...

I posted a few weeks ago about wondering if I should start Remeron; Allostrata wisely cautioned me not to, and I have not.

 

However, during a recent mixed episode, I noticed my blood pressure is getting awfully high -- 165/90, or thereabouts -- which is weird, because I'm in outstanding athletic condition for my age, I have reduced my alcohol consumption to almost nothing.  My diet is excellent, very low sodium, and my body weight is very low.

 

I have been under more stress during the past few months than I have ever been in my life, and for a longer period of time, mostly from elder care.  Anyway, I wondered if it might help to go after the blood pressure instead of using a neuroleptic.

 

Tenex, or Guanfacine, is an odd compound.  It does not seem to be any kind of neuroleptic, or affect serotonin or dopamine; it reduces nerve impulses in the heart and blood vessels.  It's also used to treat ADHD and anxiety / obsessional thinking by just kind of slowing down blood flow in the prefrontal cortex, some research suggests it improves spatial memory-- and mine is bad when I'm in a mixed or hyperaroused state of anxiety and depression.

 

Obviously, I will have a long talk with my doctor about this.  But has anyone heard about any psych side effects from this, or withdrawal symptoms, like PSSD or TD or any of the really bad symptoms that occur with SSRIs or atypicals or mood stabilizers?

 

I'm just thinking: Maybe if I try to control the blood pressure, and some of the jittery thinking that goes with it, all the meditation and exercise that I'm doing will work better to control my mood. 

 

Curious about your thoughts.

 

--Cat

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Cat, I've merged your latest topic with your intro topic as it's one thread per person in introductions.

This means all your posts about your taper or withdrawal are in one place. 

 

I'm sorry I can't offer any advice on the medications you mentioned, I don't know anything about them so will

leave that for someone who does know. I'm sure someone will be along shortly.

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

Link to comment
  • Administrator

If you've been taking benzos inconsistently, you may have sensitized your nervous system. Blood pressure dysregulation is a symptom of this kind of autonomic injury.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment
  • 11 months later...
  • Member

Cat, how is your bp doing now? Did you start the guanfacine?

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use Privacy Policy