Jump to content
alexjuice

How good are naturopaths and other alternative practitioners?

Recommended Posts

alexjuice

I went to see a chiropractor/homeopath who my mother recommended and who I'll call Magic Nancy. I don't no what training alternative practitioners typically receive -- it varies I'm sure -- but Magic Nancy got into the healing business fairly recently after a longish career in an unrelated field.

 

My experience with Nancy was negative. (Here's the simplified story) First, I am pretty open to alternative therapies. I won't list all the crap I've tried, but take my word for it. So I was open to Magic Nancy. I saw her a couple of times and developed some concerns. Nancy likes to read my body talk and then tell me what I am thinking beneath the conscious level. I saw this practioner in December and she told me that I was ready to heal and that I needed to repeat a mantra -- something like "I'm ready to let my body heal itself" -- and I was only one week away from a full recovery and good health. Ok.

 

My body didn't heal itself on her schedule and I moved on. Recently I've had some problems and to appease my mother I revisited Magic Nancy where I had an extremely upsetting experience. I brought along a number of medications and supplements for her to muscle test.

 

She listened to my body and then told me I didn't need to take almost any of it. She got strong "NOs" from my body on diazepam and clonazepam and said I shouldn't take them. Okay, whatever, I'll keep your recommendations in mind. Then she did her body reading session where she said I said that I am struggling with fear of failure, memories from age 16 and self-posioning. She said, by and large, that I once again am "ready to be well" and that I should put the past behind me and go out and be healthy and ... I don't know, get off my ass, basically.

 

Her dismissiveness frustrated me. I told her so and we then had an awkward conversation which ended with Magic Nancy saying "I'm only telling you what your body is saying it needs, you don't have to listen to it if you think this is crazy, you're in charge, I'm just the messenger." Yea, I said but I don't know these things that my body knows and speaks to you. You're claiming I should do x,y, &z but not a,b,&c and you can't tell me why besdies "that's what my body wants" which is not a good enough reason to cold turkey benzos or to follow other recommendations. It's just not enought. Finally, Magic Nancy, your general attitude that I am A-okay except for my persistent clinging to a "fear of failure" pisses me off. I don't know if I am afraid of failure or not. But you telling me I am, is not enough reason to stop medications or buy supplements from you.

 

Clearly frustrated, she told me that her work was difficult to understand and based in quantum physics which is incompatible with western medicine. She said I take a course in quantum physics and human health to better understand. Then, on second thought, she told me there is no such course that would apply to what she does because she is on the cutting edge. Of quantum physics!! The cutting edge of quantum physics research and application is on a gravel road behind the market in Williamson County Texas, who knew!? In a trailer home to boot! Anyway, I left.

 

This was a very upsetting experience because some of the things Magic Nancy said actually made sense to me. However some advice didn't ring true at all. But my biggest complain was her hostile attitude. Her attitude implied I could be healthy if I was willing and that by implication only psychological fears and my unwillingness to listen to my body (from my subconscious to her) is keeping me sick, if I'm sick at all. It's messed up to play head games with a sick person. My illness is not my fault nor is it imaginary.

 

One layer here is that I'd seen Magic Nancy earlier and not taken her full recommendations fully seriously. She was upset that I didn't make an appointment earlier, I think, and clearly brought a lot of hostility to our meeting. That my mother is a regular customer made things more twisted up.

 

Anyway, she didn't take me seriously and she played a very nasty game of blaming the victim that made me feel icky and angry. Magic Nancy was the most upsetting health experience I'd ever had or close to it. It was uniquely bad as the one that felt the most emotionally exploitative. I wanted to share this experience because I'm sure we've all been treating poorly or misunderstood by healthcare professionals when all we want is help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Meimeiquest

That is truly the last thing you need right now! No words.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
primrose

Hi Alex

 

Sorry you had a bad experience.

 

I'm also open minded when it comes to alternative therapies, in fact, I'm most skeptical about western medicine, but, Magic Nancy is not benzo wise, so, seeing a person who is not benzo wise in wd isn't gonna help.

I know you were just placating your mother.

 

It is my belief, that you know, consciously, sub-consciously, unconsciously that cold turkeying your benzo is a BAD idea.

Your body is not geared up to 'sense' it still 'needs' pharmecuticals as they are artificial, however, you know, and I, know, and everyone else on here, knows that whilst you are still dependent on a dose that is too big to jump off from, you do need pharmecuticals, cos you will get very ill if you stop 'em.

 

I hope that makes sense to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GiaK

I was nearly killed by someone like magic nancy...she even had an MD and was a psychiatrist.

 

anyone who tells you to listen to them over your own intuition and body is from the dark side if you ask me...

 

I don't really have anything else to say. TRUST YOURSELF.

 

I'm really sorry you had to deal with this.

 

frankly, we're all very vulnerable to being manipulated while we are deeply suffering and the only way we can avoid it is to trust ourselves.

 

I do think we are all learning things of great value through this experience but some of the journey is darn ugly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GiaK

I've also found that it's not even true that people need benzo experience to understand us...people who've gone through their own deep transformative processes can understand us perfectly...because empathy knows know barriers...I find these people more and more these days...

 

and WE KNOW when we are in the presence of someone who knows. Equally we know when we are not.

 

Nancy is not filled with empathy. You know that. Healing can not occur without love. That's my experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
compsports

Hi Alex,

 

I am so sorry to hear about your experiences but sadly, I am not surprised. Many people in the withdrawal community get mad when I point out that alternative folks needs to be treated with as much skepticism as mainstream medicine and your situation sadly is a perfect example of why this is the case.

 

CS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Karma

Hi Alex

 

I'm really sorry for your experience with Magic Nancy. I've had to pick and choose my way through alternative practitioners ... I find have to come equipped with some knowledge - what I will try and what I won't try.

 

I agree with other comments here that she is ignorant about benzos. Even if some of what she said resonated with you it doesn't mean that anything else she had to say had a grain of truth to it. I think part of it struck a nerve with you ... don't let her get in your head.

 

I had an excellent experience with Biomeridian, but I think one reason my experience was good was due to the certified nutritionist that used to the tool. She used blood testing in association with the tool and consulted with an integrated physician. But I don't think that everyone's experience is or will be the same because it depends on the setting in which the tool is used.

 

Toxic mold exposure is serious ... I think you will heal, but it will take time and IMHO your healing is complicated by benzos ... but many of us here are in that same situation. Healing my adrenals is complicated by ADs and benzos. I know that benzos complicate my situation, but I also know that a steady progression off of these meds is my best plan.

 

Love ya, Alex

Karma

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Altostrata

I agree, when we're in the presence of a true healer, alternative or not, we know.

 

Magic Nancy might aspire to be a healer, but seems she doesn't have the mojo -- or the knowledge.

 

I've had quite a few bad experiences with alternative healers who were just plain wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
primrose

You can tell when someone is governed by their ego.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
alexjuice

I really appreciate the many supportive responses.

 

Alex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jr1985

One of the hallmarks of quackery is the use of scientific terms (e.g. quantum physics, which seems to be a popular one) to make themselves appear more authentic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Narcissus

anyone who tells you to listen to them over your own intuition and body is from the dark side if you ask me...

Hmm. Well, it doesn't sound like this woman was telling him to use his own intuition, but to accept HER somehow superior intuition. Sounds like bad news bears to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Narcissus

One of the hallmarks of quackery is the use of scientific terms (e.g. quantum physics, which seems to be a popular one) to make themselves appear more authentic.

 

Psychiatry for example. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Barbarannamated

Many alternative practitioners talk about the dangers of psych drugs but then offer natural supplements to correct the *chemical imbalance*, increase serotonin, etc. That myth has permeated all types of medicine and nutrition. I become disillusioned every time I think I've found someone who understands and then they show their ignorance or greed.

 

Alex, I'm sorry you had this experience. It sounds like you are learning to trust your instincts while searching for someone to trust with your healthcare. I haven't gotten that far.

 

{{HUGS}}

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
alexjuice

Many alternative practitioners talk about the dangers of psych drugs but then offer natural supplements to correct the *chemical imbalance*, increase serotonin, etc. That myth has permeated all types of medicine and nutrition. I become disillusioned every time I think I've found someone who understands and then they show their ignorance or greed.

 

Alex, I'm sorry you had this experience. It sounds like you are learning to trust your instincts while searching for someone to trust with your healthcare. I haven't gotten that far.

 

{{HUGS}}

 

Thanks Barb. It was a very upsetting experience because the healer tried to blackmail me over my health.

 

I don't have great instincts or I wouldn't be in the situation I'm in. Or maybe I'm just bad at listening to my gut. I am trying to get better at trusting instincts too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Barbarannamated

Tuning into instincts and listening to the gut are tough for many people, including me. I think you're probably better than you realize, Alex. The drugs mask that ability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
alexjuice

I had an excellent experience with Biomeridian, but I think one reason my experience was good was due to the certified nutritionist that used to the tool. She used blood testing in association with the tool and consulted with an integrated physician. But I don't think that everyone's experience is or will be the same because it depends on the setting in which the tool is used.

 

Toxic mold exposure is serious ... I think you will heal, but it will take time and IMHO your healing is complicated by benzos ... but many of us here are in that same situation. Healing my adrenals is complicated by ADs and benzos. I know that benzos complicate my situation, but I also know that a steady progression off of these meds is my best plan.

 

Thanks, Karma. I've had some success with the muscle testing stuff -- if that is biomeridian? -- but it doesn't pick up everything. I had a number of evaluations with practioners who found nothing abnormal with the urogenital tract when, in fact, that is the area of most severe degredation.

 

One thing about my problem, the reason I have exceedingly high urine 8-hydroxy-2'-deoxyguanosine measures is due to damage caused by ochratoxin which is 100% proven in farm animals to destroy testicular tissue, kidney vessels and ultimately cause death. For ethical reasons, people are not poisoned with ochtraxoin to do studies, however there is a strong connection between ochratoxin and Balkan Endemic Neuropathy which "western" medicine says has no treatment.

 

I have an uncommon (but not rare) genetic combination (a haplotype) as a result of which my immune system does not recognize mycotoxins so they run around oxidizing stuff and causing damage.

 

I could give energy healers a break and say that if my body isn't recognizing the ochratoxin then it doesn't tell the healers about it either? I dunno. But it's very, very upsetting to have someone wand (or voltage) by my body and then say there is nothing wrong with the anatomy...

 

The important lesson is one should never be so sure they are right unless they are sure they're right -- and sure things are rare birds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GiaK

paying attn to this sort of thing exactly is how we learn to listen to our instincts...it's a learning process. your body sends out all sorts of signals that it's in the presence of bullsh*t...we've been conditioned to ignore this but as we start paying attention it's all there...you're doing good...even if it feels sucky sometimes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rhiannon

 

One of the hallmarks of quackery is the use of scientific terms (e.g. quantum physics, which seems to be a popular one) to make themselves appear more authentic.

 

Psychiatry for example. :lol:

 

Ha! indeed. All too true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rhiannon

Sorry you had to deal with that BS, Alex. Especially since your mom likes and trusts her. That extra conflict is all you need...

 

Just because someone is alternative doesn't mean they have a clue. I actually have done a lot of healing work in my life, as a massage therapist, and in my experience in that universe, the people who really do have a healing knack tend to be quite humble. It seems to me that the ones who have a lot of ego involved are usually the least skillful. I know it's true for me, when my ego gets involved I don't do anyone much good.

 

Also in my experience in that universe--there's a lot of BS. This lady sets off my BS detectors all the way from Oregon. Love the quantum physics part, in particular. Snork!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jr1985

 

One of the hallmarks of quackery is the use of scientific terms (e.g. quantum physics, which seems to be a popular one) to make themselves appear more authentic.

 

Lol indeed!

Psychiatry for example. :lol:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
areyouthere

 

Clearly frustrated, she told me that her work was difficult to understand and based in quantum physics which is incompatible with western medicine. She said I take a course in quantum physics and human health to better understand. Then, on second thought, she told me there is no such course that would apply to what she does because she is on the cutting edge. Of quantum physics!! The cutting edge of quantum physics research and application is on a gravel road behind the market in Williamson County Texas, who knew!? In a trailer home to boot!

Sounds like complete BS to me.

 

 

she played a very nasty game of blaming the victim that made me feel icky and angry.

 

Magic Nancy was the most upsetting health experience I'd ever had or close to it. It was uniquely bad as the one that felt the most emotionally exploitative.

 

I'm really sorry that you had to go through this Alex and I don't just say that as a cliche. I have a sister who is mixed up with a shaman-like dude who has and is manipulative... it's a pretty sick relationship and it makes me very, very sad. This guy is is a great big dude and reminds me of Frankenstein.... My sister just finished rehab ( opiates) for the 2nd time. I think Frankenstein likes to keep her in the addiction cycle. I don't like it.

 

I imagine Nancy looks like one of these ladies... :) RU

post-978-0-55450100-1365298103_thumb.jpg

post-978-0-75205700-1365298122_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Narcissus

^Haha!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Aria

I've written about my unruly sleep patterns and at this point considering biting the bullet and paying big $$ to see an alternative practitioner. Most nights I'm up till 2-3 AM...dawn, can lay down quietly off and on but no sleep (no anticipatory body jerks letting me know sleep is almost here). Will I be forever the lady who doesn't sleep at night and when she does can't get going till 2 PM the next day??

 

Would appreciate any feed back on using quality herbal supplements from a vitamin or grocery store? Are the pricey pharmaceutical grade ones better? Did taking the supplements help, time to kick in and for how long? How much tweaking do the supplements need to make a difference?  Any blood and/or saliva testing done and did you feel having them was beneficial? Did you find a naturapath was knowledge but most of all helpful? I'm in need of sleep and knowing most nights I can go to sleep before 2-3-4 AM. I'd love to tell my friends yea, I can met you for lunch instead of being too wiped out to do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Altostrata

In my experience, the quality of alternative practitioners varies as widely as it does in physicians, and alternative practitioners often do not have a clue how to deal with nervous systems sensitized by withdrawal, although they may be nicer to deal with and more sympathetic.

 

So, buyer beware when it comes to alternative practitioners.

 

We have lots of suggestions regarding improving sleep in this forum, which I would try before paying $$ to an alternative practitioner who might not be helpful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GiaK

I second what Alto says..I've been harmed by just as many alt docs as traditional ones and helped by a few of both as well...

 

it's important to be very cautious and not assume they know what they're doing even if they say they do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MrsWDSyndrome

My husband does see a naturopath, which is fortunately covered by insurance here.  To be honest, we're teaching him about withdrawal, but he's a very good listener!  Far better than any of the GP's we saw in the past.  He's very supportive.  But honestly, the best education we've received is right here on the good old world wide web.

I apologize if you've already tried tried this, but the magic bullet for my w/d stricken husband and my insomniac self is magnesium. GOOD magnesium.  We are, pretty much, all deficient in magnesium in this country. (Insert long story about farming practices.) And someone going through w/d is even more deficient in magnesium.  We have suggested this to several people since we've started taking it and they're all sold on the idea.  Can't imagine going to bed without it anymore.  We buy ours from Vitacost or Amazon, whoever has the better deal at the time.  The brand we buy (the best bang for the buck as far as mag supplement goes) is Doctor's Best, 100% Chelated Magnesium, we take 2 tablets before bed (200 mgs).  My husband will also take it during the day if he's particularly anxious.  It's very calming.  The worst side effect, if you get it at all, is diaharea, which is a sign you're taking too much.  If it happens, just work your way up to 200 mgs.  We also tried a disolvable powder called Natural Calm. It's a different form of magnesium, it was good, but the Doctor's Best tablets seem to do more.  Please try it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GiaK

oh...and yes! the best doctors...alternative or traditional are one that LISTEN...really any doctor who listens and is willing to learn is good! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Aria

I thought by now my sleep would right being psych drug free itself but it hasn't. I can only draw the conclusion my sleep rhythm has been burned by years of psych drugs. I know part of the problem is fighting this neuro muscular disease but I'm determined to sleep drug free. Every now and then I'll crash and sleep for 10 wonderful hours.

 

I recently bought Taurine, Theanine Serene, Tyrosine, L-Glutamine and L-Tryptophan online but didn't know how to combine them to work for me? Suggestions for starting my trial and error dosing using them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Altostrata

See our topics on those amino acids.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Meimeiquest

Aria, don't know what you will think of this, but years ago I read an article in Readers Digest about a woman's insomnia experience. She was placed on what she called a sleep diet. She had to start where her sleep was and only allow herself to be in bed that long until she could sleep well. For example, she was only sleeping four hours, so she stayed up till 2 A.M., then got up at 6 a.m. When she was sleeping really well for those four hours, she started going to bed 15 min. earlier until she slept a full night. It's miserable, but I did it after my first benzo taper and it worked for me after two nights.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
compsports

That sounds like sleep restriction therapy, Meimeiquest.

 

Even though I think the apnea and cpap intolerance is a major factor in my sleep issues, I do wonder what the roles of being on psych meds did to my sleep.   So I really feel for you Aria.

 

I hope you can find a way to resolve it.  Unfortunately, I haven't found any OTC remedies that are really helpful.

 

Agree that alternative professionals are to be dealt with as much skepticism as mainstream folks are.

 

Gia, the only doctor I know who seems to listen is a famous sleep doctor out in NM.  Unfortunately, he is very expensive and doesn't take insurance.   And sadly, listening to his videos clarified some issues for me that were hanging after a visit to my ENT yesterday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Aria

I recently went to a Naturapath and he wanted complete blood panels; thyroid, saliva testing (Cortisol) and across the board allergy testing (find food triggers). I'll have to figure out how I can get my primary care doctor to run these blood tests for me or I can't afford this kind of workup? The ND wants to figure out any underlying issues-cause and effect so this may become lengthy instead of the usual western medicine quick fixes. I had expected a nice hour visit and maybe have herbal help for my main concern, unpredictable and severe insomnia. No, I didn't mention my previous psych drug history, it's been 10 yrs.

 

If any of you have had previous experience with ND's please tell me what to expect from here on out??  Obviously I do NOT want to go the drug route and have hope that this alternative way will improve what ails me. :unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
compsports

Hi Aria,

 

On the food allergy test, you could simply eliminate the typical triggers such as dairy, eggs, and nuts for 30 days and then slowly reintroduce them back to see if anything was an issue.  I think that is more reliable than doing a blood test for them.

 

Your MD should be willing to run a thyroid if you could figure out what reason to provide that would compel this person to order one.  Maybe someone who has had thyroid difficulties can chime in.

 

I visited two NDs and to be honest, I didn't get any satisfaction from either visit.  One person put me on herbal meds that started off ok but then started to cause problems.   It became clear to me that she had no more clue than a regular MD about how to handle my issues.

 

The other one wanted to put me on 5htp which I knew was not going to work.

 

Maybe your person is better so don't go by my experiences.   I know when you are desperate for sleep, you're almost willing to do anything.

 

Best of luck.

 

CS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Altostrata

As I noted above, I would be very cautious with naturopaths.

 

Most naturopaths prescribe treatments that are just as senseless as any psychiatrist's -- useless tests, coffee enemas, heavy metal chelation, expensive supplements, etc.

 

Like all practitioners, some are real healers. You'll have to be alert to see what kind you have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...