Jump to content
Muddles

Muddles: desperate

Recommended Posts

Muddles

Hi there!
Need a bit of advice.

My father passed away Christmas Eve :-(
I have been on mirtazapine 15mg for 4 years. Since my father passed I have been experiencing a lot of strange & worrying stuff which I can only explain as withdrawal symptoms from mirtazapine.

Depression - severe, insomnia, mind chatter, body buzzing, twitches, jerks of legs/arms, panick attack, anxiety etc.

I went to see my doctor as my friends and family are concerned. She wants me to up my dose but am not sure i should do it. Could it make things worse? I feel upping may cause more problems.

I felt sooo depressed this morning and slowly withdrawing from everybody...scared!

Thanks in advance.

Share this post


Link to post
mammaP

Hi Muddles, I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your father. If you are still taking the same dose 

as always and these symptoms started after his death it could be your grief that is causing a lot of

your symptoms. Grief is very powerful and very difficult to cope with sometimes, I find that especially

in the UK where it isn't  the 'done thing' to openly express grief.  Time is the healer and things will get

easier. Think about your dad and remember him, cry if you want to and don't hold it back. He was

special to you and it is normal to feel grief.

 

In my opinion doctors are very good at prescribing anti depressants for grief istead of allowing it to run

it's natural course, you are wise to hold off taking that advise!

 

It could also be that the mirtazepine has started giving you side effects. Ad's often 'poop out' and we are left

with undesirable side effects. This happened to me and I was ill for some years before I realised what was

happening and started to reduce the dose. After starting to taper I started to feel much better. 

 

If that is what you wish to do we will help you to taper safely. 

Someone else will be along shortly to offer their thoughts on updosing. I doubt that anyone would agree

with your doctor but I will bow to their superior knowledge!

Share this post


Link to post
wulfgar

Hi Muddles, so sorry for your loss! Many of your symptoms feels to me like grief. Insomnia and stress can be quite tough on your body. I would recommend trying all the non drug therapies first. Get to talk to an therapist or a priest. They are often good with helping with grief. Talk to your friends and relatives about your dad. Cry, and let it out! If you feel anger, be angry!

 

It is important to get good quality nutritious food when you are able to eat. Ask your family to support you with that.

 

Numbing yourself with more drugs might postpone grief. Did so for me.

 

I suggest you hold Mirtazapine at 15 mg. Reducing mirtazapine now will spike adrenaline and cortisol more, and you probably have enough of them. In regards to updosing, if you eventually decide to try this, don't go for 30 mg. 30 mg is strong. Add a quarter pill, 3.75 mg or a half pill 7.5.

Share this post


Link to post
Muddles

Thanks for your reply. A lot of people say it's grief but I'm not entirely convinced. I generally think I'm in poop-out & experiencing withdrawels.

Either way the Mirtazapine is not helping & seem to be getting worse every day.

I may try and increase a bit like you say.

Thanks for your rely.

Share this post


Link to post
Muddles

I didn't see both responses. To up the dose, decrease or stay put - that is the question! I'm baffled!

Thanks again for your kind words..I am really struggling with the loss. He was a huge part of my life & still can't get my head around it. X

Share this post


Link to post
Altostrata

Welcome, Muddles.

 

Condolences on your loss.

 

Have you taken any other drugs at all since your father's death? Even an antibiotic?

 

What is your daily symptom pattern? Keeping notes on paper is very helpful.

Share this post


Link to post
Muddles

Hi!

Sleeping problems, arm and legs jerking throughout night. Strange anxiety - not so much in the stomach but in the chest? Tingling all over - most of the day. Panic attack on awakening. Depression with horrible thoughts. Withdrawn & not wanting to do anything apart from read up on how harrowing withdrawel is & scaring myself to death!

Share this post


Link to post
Altostrata

Those are fairly typical of withdrawal syndrome.

 

Please answer

Have you taken any other drugs at all since your father's death? Even an antibiotic?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Muddles

No - nothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Muddles

Thanks. I thought mirtazapine was more activating as you increased?

Share this post


Link to post
Altostrata

You want LESS activation. The symptoms you are getting are hyperactivation.

Share this post


Link to post
Muddles

Sorry - miss read your reply. Definitely don't think increasing will help.

Share this post


Link to post
Nikki

Muddles so sorry over the loss of you father. I was just on the phone with someone who lost her mother and she said she didn't know what was wrong with her...she said she is depressed, can't stop crying and is having trouble functioning.  I was surprised  that she could not understand that it was grief.

 

She does not take medication.  I agree with you in that apart from grief your symptoms sound like poop out to me as well.  unfortunately you are grieving and going thru this too.  I recently went thru this.  It was with  pet who died right before Christmas.

 

I am not familiar with Mirtazapine.....so let Alto take it from here.  I have experienced 'poop out' and know that increasing an AD will not help it only makes the symptoms worse. At that time, I had to taper off the medication (Lexapro).  It was giving me the same symptoms you have.

 

Nikki

Share this post


Link to post
Muddles

Thanks Niki! Suppose I have to take one day at a time. Do you think withdrawing now will help? I know withdrawals can be pretty nasty.

Share this post


Link to post
mammaP

I think you might be better if you start to reduce the mirtazepine now. Look at the link that Alto posted for you.

it tells you how to do that. Don't be tempted to cut by more than 10%,   If you can get liquid from your doctor

it will be easier to taper.  

 

I hope this helps you to feel better. 

 

It will help us if you put your doses and when you started taking it, plus any other medicines or supplements 

in your signature.  :)  Here is how to do that. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

Share this post


Link to post
Muddles

I'm so scared! Am I going to be able to care for my children and lead a normal ish life? X

Share this post


Link to post
mammaP

You could feel much better by reducing the dose slightly. When anti depressants poop out 

they cause all kinds of awful symptoms which can be like withdrawal. Reducing the dose can

alleviate those symptoms. Before I started tapering I had been taking effexor for 10 years.

For at least 5 of them I felt ill. I thought it was a medical problem but after some research

realised it was the AD and decided to taper. Within weeks I started to feel better and felt

better and better with each drop. 

 

Sadly I went too fast and ended up with withdrawal, I just wish I'd found this site first! 

Share this post


Link to post
Rhiannon

I can't add much to the excellent advice you're getting. I would like to reinforce that if you decide to cut your dose a bit, make it a small cut. I'd recommend starting with a 5% cut the first time. Then wait a couple of weeks and see what happens: do you feel better, do you feel worse, do you feel about the same?  If you feel better then wait out the full four to six weeks and make another 5% cut and see how that goes. Do that a few times until you get a really good sense of how withdrawal is going to work for you.

 

Also, please add your full psych drug history (for the past 2-3 years) to your sig line. Instructions are in the Read This First thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Altostrata

Muddles, you're in a difficult situation. A very small decrease will allow you to see if that's the right direction for you while minimizing risk of further problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Muddles

Thanks so much for your responses. How do I cut down? Do I need scales?

Share this post


Link to post
Muddles

Ok - so now I am so sick and extremely scared for myself. I have extreme inner restless, agitation and suicidal thoughts and insomnia. I still haven't cut my dose because I'm waiting for scales. This is not normal anxiety - it's like the feeling I had when I tried an SSRI before mirtazapine. The doctor at the time dismissed it as a side effect and mentioned bi-polar....absolute joke! I insured a hell of a week on that stuff...didn't sleep or eat all of that time. I'm getting to that point now. This med is screwing me up and I haven't even started to taper yet. Is my life over? I think I need urgent help...I can't stand this feeling. If I go to the hospital I don't think they will believe this is all related to the drug. A couple of my friends don't...it's grief they say! Absolute nonsense. This crap has pooped big time and I'm stuck & afraid for myself and my beautiful family who are also suffering.

Do you think I should go to hospital?

Share this post


Link to post
Altostrata

Here's someone in a similar situation who found decreasing mirtazapine reduced those symptoms http://www.depressionforums.org/forums/topic/64471-mirtazapine-poop-out/

 

In the UK, you can get mirtazapine liquid http://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/27430/SPC

 

Or, you can get 7.5mg tablets to split.

 

Or, you can make your own liquid from the tablets you have, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5301-tips-for-tapering-off-remeron-mirtazapine/

Share this post


Link to post
Muddles

Bless you! Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Muddles

I feel suicidal! I can't do this! I'm still on full dose, waiting for scales. I'm seriously thinking of ending it all. How can I expect to withdraw from this crap when at the moment - at full dose, cannot take care if myself and children. I'm a complete mess. 4 years on this crap and it is destroying me & my family.

Share this post


Link to post
cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Hi Muddles,

 

All of us here know all too well how bad you are feeling right now because we have all gone through it at various times. Sadly, it has to be gotten through as best as we can, sometimes minute by minute. Imperceptibly, things really do change for the better, although it seems so very slow. We just do what we can. Please hang on, you are a valuable person and you WILL take care of your family just fine while you are going through this. Our loved ones forgive a lot when we are going through hard times. Yours will too. Take care!

Share this post


Link to post
Muddles

Thank you...i really need to vent.

But how can I possibly improve when I have yet to withdraw a drug that I have been taking for four years! I could understand feeling like this if I had gotten down to a low dose. But seriously - full blown withdrawel symtoms at full dose. There's no hope!

Share this post


Link to post
Altostrata

You don't need scales, look at the links. You can make a liquid to taper.

Share this post


Link to post
cymbaltawithdrawal5600

 

Withdrawn & not wanting to do anything apart from read up on how harrowing withdrawel is & scaring myself to death!

 

You definitely should stop doing this. When I was having the worst time I read only posts by the mods here. None of the new postings at all and most of the time I still don't. All of the 'harrowing' stories can mess with your thinking.

 

It MAY be that you are having a grief reaction and not 'poop out'. You have not changed your meds at all (at least I don't think so but you haven't done a signature line yet). Grief over losing someone close to you is a rough experience for everyone but it lessens over time. And not everyone's withdrawal is rough as all of us are different. The best you can do for yourself right now is avoid reading all of the scary stories and imagining them being you. You are a unique person and you have more strength in you than you are giving yourself credit for. Try not to give into the temptation of posting how bad you feel but maybe instead the things you notice that are normal. If you aren't eating, then eat something. If you aren't a walker, get outside and walk for 5 minutes and come back and post that here. Keep doing that and time passes and things will let up a bit for you, I promise.

 

You can do this! You have the support of all of us here!

Share this post


Link to post
Muddles

 

I totally understand what you are saying. I do try and be positive but can't see the light.

athkasia - a feeling of totally discomfort in your own skin, this is not grief. I had it coming onto the drug - wasn't sure what it was up until now...the docs thought it was a sign if bi-polar!

I'm so sorry to put you on a downer.

You can only imagine what my family are going through.

Share this post


Link to post
Meimeiquest

I'm going to guess that the stress of losing your father has changed something in your nervous system, maybe the autonomic nervous system/cortisol and now you have new side effects, not poop out. I don't think akathisia is a sign of needing more drug. But that is just a guess. I am so sorry for your loss and this stress.

Share this post


Link to post
bubble

Dear Muddles,

 

I've been reading your posts and I'm very sorry for your loss and the distress you are in now.

 

But I'm also happy for you that you have found this forum where I have personalyl received so many good advice and equally important warm support.

 

Don't blame yourself for anything, your family is doing fine and what you are going through now will pass. 

 

Alto is an amazing expert and we can never appreciate enough the time she puts to study our situation and advise on a course of action.

 

I know it's extremely hard to make decision and do things in this kind of state but if I remember it correctly, the opinion here is that your drug might be too activating and you might actually feel better if you decrease it. For that you should use  aliquid suspension which is in your state an additional complication. (It was very hard for me to make that change but is actually not so complicated). 

 

I guess it could be mirtazapine poop-out.

 

It's possible if you decrease it, it will be less activating. See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5301-tips-for-tapering-off-remeron-mirtazapine/

 

 

You want LESS activation. The symptoms you are getting are hyperactivation.

 

You don't need scales.

 

YOU CAN BEAT THIS MONSTER. AND WE ARE HERE FOR YOU. 

Share this post


Link to post
Muddles

Thank you. My friend is taking me to the docs this afternoon. They all want me to up my tablets and don't fully understand what's going on. The athkasia was pretty bad this morning and quite frankly nearly tipped me into doing something to myself. I have never had thoughts like this. I love my children but can't stand to be around them. This is what kills me the most. My husband actually witnessed my arms and leg jurks earlier...he said I look like I'm withdrawing from heroin! I'm so sorry for my depressing posts.

I pray for you all. If only we knew all about this before we took the evil things! I'd have my anxiety and panic attacks back any day over this crap!

Share this post


Link to post
bubble

Please don't apologise.

 

We all go through the same things here and if anywhere in the world, on this forum we can be as true with others about our difficult states as possible.

 

Unforortunately, doctors are mostly completely ignorant about all this so they actually do more harm...

 

Can you give a try to what Alto suggests? I doubt things can get any worse than this.

 

I know it is strange that we believe more an online forum than the official medicine but in our case it is a sorry state of affairs. It will take some time before doctors start admitting their mistakes and ignorance and start learning. You can listen to their opinions, get prescriptions but in the end you are free to decide not to take them. 

 

I'm happy for you that you are here with us. 

Share this post


Link to post
Muddles

Too true. I believe I've had a couple of phycosis episodes while on this drug. Especially at the beginning. Tomorrow I'm going to go & check myself into hospital. I've become even worse today...feeling very phsycotic with extreme suicide intention. I have no other choice. The athkatsia and arm jerking was so bad earlier. I'm very confused and losing touch with reality. How did it come to this! Why the hell didn't I stop medication when I knew it was causing me more grief (from the start)! I'm scared - I don't want to take anti-physicotic's. it's either that or taking my life....I am so ill.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use Privacy Policy