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Designgirl732: Hello and Thanks for having me. Confused about AD's and what I should do.


Designgirl732

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Stace,

 

4 days to try a reinstatement isn't long enough unless you have had an immediate bad reaction

Have your symptoms been getting consistently worse and worse over the last 4 days?

 

I really don't understand where you saw that anyone thought you should stop taking 5 mg which you had just reinstated and which is working... :(

 

We said just the contrary: stay on it for at least 30 days without jumping around in response to symptoms.

 

Here is what Alto wrote in 3 KIS of tapering: 2.c. Do not jump around in dosage. For most drugs, it takes about 4 days for the change to fully register in your system. Unless you have an IMMEDIATE bad reaction, wait at least 4-7 days to see how the change affects you. (If you have an immediate bad reaction, go back to the dosage you were taking before.)

 
Since withdrawal symptoms ordinarily fluctuate, you might have hours or days here and there when you don't feel well. One episode does not a pattern make. Do not panic and throw in another drug or supplement. Keep notes on paper of your daily symptom pattern. If you feel worse and worse over a week, the change was not a good one. It may be the decrease or increase was too large. Rather than jumping around in dosage, make an adjustment half-way.
 

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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Petu good point. No, in fact, they have gotten consistently better. I just have these moments throughout the day, they last maybe 5 minutes or so where I get high anxiety, or nauseous, or dizzy..but they are typical start up side effects (tho be it my tiny dose). 

 

I slept a solid 8 hours last night so i'm already feeling a bit more human. I think the anticipation or worry of 'how am i going to feel today!?' is what makes me question reinstating, but i'm already feeling my nervous system stabilize a bit.

 

i have to also remember it's a marathon, not a sprint.

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Hey guys-so today is day 7 on citalopram-i started taking closer to 10mb because i couldn't cut the pills evenly enough. 

 

This morning I had terrible anxiety and suicidal thoughts..i know it's probably 'my body adjusting to the med' and i almost puked but EVERYONE i know says I need to stick with this. 

 

I'd rather just not and do something natural but everyone in my family says that doesn't work. I'm so confused. I feel like if i wait it out i'll feel better but the anxiety about the medication is what's making me nuts.

 

help!

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  • Administrator

Stace, you were taking 5mg and then you jumped to 10mg?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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no-today I took 8. It's very hard to tell honestly b/c i'm not using a liquid taper so it's not precise. Tomorrow is day 8 and I'm going to go to 10 mg and stay there indefinitely. 

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I have to manage my morning anxiety better..i either have to get up right away, meditate, make tea, get my day started..if I don't, I will lay there and that's when the bad thoughts happen. Whether it's start up anxiety from a new med, or my own panic (without meds) that's when it happens.

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  • Administrator

Stace, did you read the 3KIS topic pinned at the top of this forum?

 

You were going to stay at 5mg. You are now jumping around again.

 

Stability is extremely important. I don't think there's anything else I can tell you.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Careful and consistent dosing is key for this to work.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2023-tips-for-tapering-off-celexa-citalopram/

 

if you browse it for  afew minutes you will see this: Use Celexa liquid concentrate to taper

In the US, the liquid oral solution comes in 10 mg/5 mL (2 mg/mL), peppermint flavor. The bottle contains 240 mL. Pharmacy identifier is NDC 0456-4130-08

Use an oral syringe to precisely measure out doses as small as .01mg.

Making a Celexa solution yourself
See http://survivinganti...lution-yourself 

 

Since you can't be accurate by cutting tablets, please inform yourself about other options. They are all rather easy. 

Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2

2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013)

Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 
1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg.
2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg
went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days after
reinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours
28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr  2015 1 mg,  25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64  Xanax     9 month hold

24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26

Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic 

I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. 

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My pharmacist and psych wouldn't give me an oral solution but I can try and make one myself and just get a syringe from CVS-

 

I'm going by what will help my panic and anxiety right now, and 10mg seems to be the more 'therapeutic' dose for anxiety. So i did 5mg the first week and now at 10. But I know what you mean about being steady. I get that. If I feel terrible in the next few days, I'll go back to EXACTLY 5mg and stay steady at that.

 

I did wake up this morning for the first time feeling good, so that's a good sign.

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well, today was awful. I should've listened to you guys. Sticking back with my 5mg and STAYING THERE. I'd actually like to not do anything but i have to feel somewhat stable.

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  • Administrator

1) Celexa is no longer a cure for anxiety for you. Your system has been sensitized to it.

 

2) If you wanted to increase it from 5mg, there are many steps in between 5mg and 10mg that would have allowed you to Keep It Slow and Keep It Steady.

 

3) You simply have not stayed at any one dosage for long. Think about whether you want to continue this habit.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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what do you mean it's no longer a cure? I know people who have gone on and off and are fine-well better ON it. 

I don't know what I should do

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  • Administrator

What's been your experience so far? You have to work with your nervous system, not someone else's.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • Administrator

Keep track of your daily dosage and symptom pattern on paper, Stace. I think this was mentioned before, also.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I do-i journal every night. that is a great idea. I also find things like staying in the house all day does not help me although the anxiety makes me agoraphobic. 

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  • Administrator

Well, what's been your symptom pattern day by day over the week?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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i sleep great, wake up ok, then go into a panic, suicidal thoughts, anxiety about the medication itself, then i don't want to leave the house. Then by the afternoon, i feel so much better, i'm productive, etc. 

 

I'm completely nauseous though but that's really my only side effect. 

 

The panic, thoughts, and anxiety were all there before I started this med.

 

My parent, family, dr.'s and friends are all urging me to go up to 10 mg. Of course, this is ultimately my choice. But as someone with extreme anxiety and a tendency to be extremely indecisive, this alone is causing me to lose my mind! A lot of the 'what if's - 'what if i get worse?' what if i feel awful for my son's bday party in 2 weeks that we're throwing at our house' - i'm nuts.

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  • Administrator

Stace, I've got to be honest. Getting info from you is like pulling teeth, and then you disregard what I say anyway. Responding to your posts takes time, and I would dearly like to have a life away from the computer. This is very frustrating.

 

If you're over 18, you can tell your family, friends, etc. to mind their own business. You can do that even if you're under 18.

 

Since you started 5mg Celexa July 3, how have your symptoms changed?

 

What is your symptom pattern day by day, when do you take your meds, and what are their dosages EACH DAY?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Sorry i won't bother you on here anymore..

 

I don't log my exact symptoms everyday. I feel differently throughout the day. Mornings are rough, mid-day I level out, evenings i feel great.  Overall, since July 3rd, my symptoms of anxiety have gotten better. My depression has gotten a little worse but that's just in the morning. Like I said, I've had such bad anxiety lately that I can't blame anything on a med right now.

 

Since July 3rd, my dosage hasn't been EXACTLY 5mg b/c i haven't done a liquid-i just use a pill cutter..so one day it could be 4 mg, the next day 7 mg. I know this isn't what is suggested here. I take them between 7 and 7:30 in the morning.

 

My psychiatrist said for the next 10 days try 10mg and check in with him.  The only reason I'm considering it at this point is because what I'm taking is so close to 10mg but not precise I might as well take exactly 10mg.

Sorry If i'm not making sense.

 

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  • Administrator

Stace, I agree we don't seem to be communicating.

 

To figure out whether you need to increase the dosage, you must keep notes on paper of your dosages, timing, and symptoms every day.

 

The way you want to do it, including the imprecise dosing and not keeping notes, is exactly the opposite of we've been suggesting. Please consider all you've learned here, and good luck to you.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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hi stace,

just wanted to see how CBT is going and hopefully you stabilized on your meds.. take care!

on 37.5 - 50mg zoloft/sertraline for GAD from 3/1996 to 4/2013 (17 years) 

too fast taper from 1/13-4/13

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Hey trouper!

 

CBT is amazing..I'm lucky I gave it another chance and found this woman. it's going to take a while but I'm getting there. i'm getting stable on meds as well. Today i got out of the house with the kids ran a bunch of errands and my nervous system was CALM..it was a miracle. It's going to take a while, but i'm getting there.

 

thank you for asking..PM me and let me know how you're doing as well! xoxo

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that is so great to hear on all accounts. :) will do.

on 37.5 - 50mg zoloft/sertraline for GAD from 3/1996 to 4/2013 (17 years) 

too fast taper from 1/13-4/13

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  • Administrator

Excellent news, stace.

 

What dosage did you settle on and how long ago? How long did it take before you felt you had stabilized?

 

This information will help us counsel other people in the same situation.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Thanks Alto.

 

Well I'm not completely there yet, so I'm not sure it'll be 100% valid but after 9 days on 5mg, 1.5 weeks on 10 mg, my panic and anxiety were the same as they were beforehand (i couldn't even blame the med or start up anxiety). I decided to reinstate the 20 mg 4 days ago. My anxiety induced insomnia was so bad it was making everything that much worse.

 

So my psych wanted me to take the 20 mg at night b/c he said it'll make me tired. But because i'm stubborn and have to be in control (people with anxiety control freaks..noo...:) I took it during the day and was a tired zombie for 8 hours. Then i decided to split the dose, still sleepy. So i'm going to start taking it around dinner time or a little after and NOT change anything. I know it'll be a couple of weeks until that all settles down anyway and i'm not changing dosages after the 20.

 

This time is different too b/c I have a really good therapist.

 

What has changed since I reinstated: 1) I can leave the house and run errands with minimal anxiety 2) I can sleep

 

I'm not close to feeling 'good' and having a ton of energy to go for a jog because i'm still playing around with dosage times, but one of the things my therapist has me doing is writing down 3 things everyday that I did that are GOOD. not focus on the bad. This will take time to retrain the brain. 

 

One battle at a time, right?

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Stace,

Now that you are back up to your original dose of 20mg, what are your plans regarding medication?  Are you staying on it now?  Do you still take xanax at night?  I just read some of your earlier posts and realized that the xanax you take at night may have been causing increased, rebound anxiety during the day.

 

I hope things settle down for you.

 

well, today was awful. I should've listened to you guys. Sticking back with my 5mg and STAYING THERE. I'd actually like to not do anything but i have to feel somewhat stable.

 

I expect that you will start to feel better when you actually do start listening and stop making constant changes.  Please would you update your signature with details of your latest changes.

 

I'm happy to hear that the CBT is helping and that you have found a good therapist.  Do stay in touch and let us know how you are doing.

 

Petu.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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Thanks Petu, I agree. I'm going to start taking 20 mg at night and stick with that. yes, I'm taking xanax at night but it's xr, .5. I'm hoping to get off of that once I stabilize back on the 20 mg. 

 

I don't wake up in a panic anymore, but if I lay there long enough my mind starts with really depressive thoughts and I hate that. But i know it's just the beginning.

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  • Administrator

If you've been taking Xanax regularly or frequently, you will need to taper off that, too. I would not make changes right away.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Absolutely, no, i'm sticking with this plan for now. I take the 20 mg at night with xanax. The idea is that once stable on the 20 mg and sleeping I will wean off the xanax permanently. and SLOWLY. no, not making anymore changes right now!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi guys..just thought i'd send an update..

 

It's now 3 full weeks on 20 mg citalopram. Since taking cit at night and diazepam at night as well, i sleep a solid 7 hours and dream pleasantly.

I've had better days then 'not good days' - I am quite productive and get out of the house and get a lot of things done. I even did a few trips to the gym although i got anxiety after 30 minutes so I left.

 

On a downside, I feel my depression is getting worse. Not every morning, but lately, I wake up not in a panic but with suicidal thoughts or feeling disconnected from those closest to me. I have emotions because the thought of it makes me cry. I laugh as well, but i have these 'who's life is this? can i really take care of my kids?' It's really weird. It's not all the time, and as the day goes on I feel better but I just keep thinking of the good old label on my bottle 'if depression worsens call your doctor' - ha ha.

 

I'm seeing my psych next monday, which will be the beginning of week 4. This may all be part of my body getting used to things. I no longer have side effects although my appetite is weird. I'm not hungry until very late in the day. 

That's about it really-not sure if my dr is going to say 'worsening depression at week 4 is normal or not normal' if he suggests going UP in a dose I will say NO. if he says 'well then I think you should try another drug, i will say NO. I'll do a 10% wean and take it from there.

 

I also wanted to say I started accupuncture today by a woman who specialized in anxiety, depression and obsessive thoughts so I feel like i'm in good hands.

 

So I don't know how to take this update-some positive, some negative. Would love to hear your thoughts/opinions. Part of me thinks I should stay the course and continue because i've only been on the meds a few weeks.

 

Thanks :)

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Stace,

 

I'm glad you are feeling better and that you managed to stay on one dose for full 3 weeks.

 

What you are describing might be windows and waves pattern of recovery: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-recovery/

 

Of course you should stay on the course especially since it seems to be working. And it would be good to update your signature with that most recent change.

Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2

2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013)

Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 
1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg.
2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg
went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days after
reinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours
28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr  2015 1 mg,  25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64  Xanax     9 month hold

24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26

Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic 

I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. 

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Thanks Bubble..

 

But my question is, is it REALLY helping? I'm having dreadful thoughts but no anxiety..so weird. i'm going to talk to my dr. If he thinks I should try a new med i'm saying NO, if he wants to increase the dose i'd be too scared to do so, so then I'd do a 10% taper I guess..ugh. But i'm not seeing him for a week so maybe i'll feel a little better by then.

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  • Moderator Emeritus
 Part of me thinks I should stay the course and continue because i've only been on the meds a few weeks.

 

 

Lets try and get 'all of you' thinking this way :)

 

You're doing well for 3 weeks of reinstatement, be patient.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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Thanks PETU..i needed that..i have what my therapist calls 'distorted thinking' (ha!)

 

I'm sticking with this dose and stabilizing for at least a month or so. That's how long it took last time and I never had to go above 20 mg so let's just pray it stays that way.

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