Jose 15 years is enough

[Lexy]

Jose 

Did you change to liquid solution? If so, how are you doing on the liquid?

[Jose]

Jose 

Did you change to liquid solution? If so, how are you doing on the liquid?

Hello Lexy,

Thanks for asking. 

I have not started yet. After reading many posts in the forum I have decided to give myself some time before going for the taper.

I don't have access to liquid venlafaxine, so when the time comes I'll probably dilute the tablets myself, I understand this is possible.

Best wishes

[Altostrata]

Jose, I moved your posts here, to keep them with your progress notes.

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

[Petunia]

Hello Jose,

I liked what you wrote on Bellisimo's thread:

 

 

It's the feeling of urgency that is most hard to withstand, at least in my case. On the days that I feel worse I get this rush of urgency, of imminent end, painful regret about any memory that hits the mind.

The antidote I am using is, as I mentioned, paying attention to my own breathing and the sensations in my body first, and then try to visualize myself some months after, reassured, feeling full of energy and relieved from this gripping shadow. Then again the determination to build my own coping mechanisms without the drugs works like an engine that feeds the positive vision forward.

Once one frees oneself of the paralysis everything becomes so much better, although it is so hard to recognize this when you're hijacked by your shadows.

 

Many of us find that when we are in a wave of difficult symptoms, its almost impossible to imagine that they will end. This added fear increases the stress.  By accepting the uncomfortable sensations right now, allowing them to flow through, rather than struggling with them, it reduces added stress.  Then by reminding ourselves that they will eventually pass, even though it doesn't feel like it, it helps to keep us in touch with the reality that we will eventually recover.

 

It sounds like you are doing well, please let us know.

 

Petu.

[Jose]

Petu,

Thanks for your care and the comments. I came off 37,5mg of venlafaxine about two months ago now. I've had some horrible days but right now I'm ok, generally feeling down and defeated but varying throughout the day. Actually the most usual daily pattern I am experiencing is starting bad in the morning and gradually improving as the day goes on. Sometimes agitated at night just before going to bed. I am barely experiencing any joy, just very specific moments perhaps. And in general very susceptible to any kind of stimulus.

There is this particular issue that hurts me, like I said earlier, it's this automatic reaction that -during the rough moments- comes with almost any thought, memory or stimulus. It's like I automatically turn to myself and feel regret, guilt, shame or unbearable melancholy in relation to that triggering event. It feels as if my subconscious, where all memories lie, was full of frayed ends, jagged surfaces, barbed extensions, so that whenever I reach it it hurts back. This is got me thinking a lot about possible ways to heal my subconscious, through meditation, hypnosis or NLP.

I do have a strong determination to move gradually on and endure this nightmare.

When I came off venlafaxine I started taking some homeopathic herbs given to me by an alternative physician recommended by a friend. I must say the withdrawal symptoms have not been as bad as I remembered them in previous occasions, but maybe that is just the placebo effect or a stronger determination this time.

Like you say, I am in some way training myself to look ahead and 'stand up and walk' during those horrible moments of despair.

I'm also taking magnesium and omega 3.

I see in your signature that you just made 1 year off medication. Congratulations! How are you doing one year on?

Would really like to hear from you what effect you have noticed from the supplements, which ones you believe have worked better for you. Is Zinc any good?

Thank you again, my best wishes.

Jose

[bubble]

Hi Jose,

 

have you read about neuroemotions? I found that concept so very valuable to help me survive the worst of withdrawal (together with windows and waves, and many other things here). http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/137-neuro-emotion/

 

I'm glad you started a thread on hypnotherapy. I also like to ask the community here for an opinion about supplements or things I plan to do. What I have found out that all my impulses to do something about this situation (also visited homeopath, paid a lot of money for the Art of Living class to facilitate my healing, bought a load of supplements) - they all just had a counter effect and made me feel even worse. Even things that used to help me before became too much for me. It's just that when our CNS is so sensitive, it reacts differently. For example, vigorous physical activity used to calm me down before but now it causes anxiety. I had to treat myself a lot more gently after the atrocity of CT-ing 2 medications.

 

After many months, I feel a lot better (I reinstated. Petu came here too late for reinstating to work and you can read about her struggle in her beautiful thread here). I started tapering one drug and I'm following the approach described here. What I've learnt concerning other methods and even supplements (except magnesium and omega 3) is that I should better not experiment with them. From my experience, what helped me survive the worst horror of my life was reinstating and then just giving my CNS a lot of stability, sparing it of any changes and giving it time to heal. Everything that helped the process, had to be on a much gentler scale than before: no aggressive yoga breathing beyond ujai, mindfulness meditation with only focusing on breath, slow walks...

 

I should now go back in your thread to see how you came off Effexor, that is, over what time and by how much you were decreasing the dose. I bet we advised you to reinstate a small amount when you came here. I just read yesterday how MammaP was on only 5 beads of that drug when she stopped it and was fine for a month only to be hit very badly after that...

 

I like reading your posts and your nice descriptions

 

best,

bubble

[bubble]

Thank you people for your explanations and support.

I'm going to try the liquid solution on the 37.5mg standard tablet to taper 10% every month.

 

You were going to taper 10 % every month. Since you now say you've been off medication since March, I can only conclude that you didn't follow your own conclusion...I see that you exchanged posts with MammaP and even asked what hit by withdrawal meant. I also took the road of discovering what it means on my own skin. It was the most painful experience of my life. I actually joined the team here to try to do something so that other people don't have to experience the same. 

 

I'm glad you are here with us again and keep us posted.

[Jose]

Hello Bubble

Thanks for the suggestion about neuro emotions, I will read that.

You're right, I eventually didn't taper and came off the 37.5mg of venlafaxine, on March 19th.

I will write here about my journey, and I really hope I can talk about improvements at some point. It's a very complex path, but must walk it.

My best wishes to you.

[Zoe]

Hi Jose- 

Good to hear from you. Sending my best. 

Zoe

[Jose]

Hi Jose- 

Good to hear from you. Sending my best. 

Zoe

Hi Zoe. Thank you for your kind words.

How are you getting on with the prozac tapering?

[Jose]

 

Thank you people for your explanations and support.

I'm going to try the liquid solution on the 37.5mg standard tablet to taper 10% every month.

 

You were going to taper 10 % every month. Since you now say you've been off medication since March, I can only conclude that you didn't follow your own conclusion...I see that you exchanged posts with MammaP and even asked what hit by withdrawal meant. I also took the rod of discovering what it means on my own skin. It was the most painful experience of my life. I actually joined the team here to try to do something so that other people don't have to experience the same. 

 

I'm glad you are here with us again and keep us posted.

 

Bubble,

I've read on your signature that when you withdrew from Escitalopram you had a big crash after 40 days.

Two weeks ago, on the 42nd day after withdrawing from venlafaxine I crashed against the wall. I had two days of depressive nightmare, the feelings of irreversible loss and damage, the extreme melancholy mixed with shame, unable to articulate a line of thought. All I wanted to do was get back to my childhood, and cuddle up to my parents, get rid of the fear and pain. 

I kind of took off from there, with irregular days but slowly improving.

There must be something about the 6th week, I also remember that the previous times I withdrew from this drug I lasted five or six weeks until I could not bear it.

I'm arming myself for a possible comeback, I hope it is not the case but if it comes, I will fight.

How are you feeling with the cuts on Xanax?

I wish you the best.

[bubble]

sorry to hear that ;(

 

I couldn't find a more adequate word in English at a time except crash but it meant that I sort of fell apart mentally. For the first time in my life I experienced something I later learnt was caleld derealization/depersonalisation. At that time I felt as if I was literally losing my mind. the scarriest moment of my life.

 

I didn't need any persuading to reinstate both Lexapro and Xanax. I was very, very slowly getting better over the course of 4 months when I started very slowly tapering Xanax. Now, 7 months after my reinstatement I feel a lot better than on that day and subsequent days and week when I was barely alive. Even with these cuts, I feel better. This forum has been a life saver without exaggeration. Soem time in the future I will equally safely taper Lexapro.

 

I don't know what would've happened without reinstatement. Even with reinstatment I suffered dreadfully for months.  I just know of some members here who didn't reinstate in time and ended up in soemthing called protracted withdrawal which basically means that their suffering didn't end after 4 months as mine but it continues for over a year and who knows how much longer. 

 

(When I write to people these days I feel like quoting that line from the Bible: Whoever has ears, let them hear. / Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand! But I don't want to quote it for fear I might be mistaken for a religious fanatic )) 

[Zoe]

 

Hi Jose- 

Good to hear from you. Sending my best. 

Zoe

Hi Zoe. Thank you for your kind words.

How are you getting on with the prozac tapering?

 

Hi Jose-

I am doing pretty well. I am just sticking with the 14 mgs. for awhile. I am finally after about a year feeling a let up in my anxiety levels. I am trying probiotics and eliminating wheat to see if that helps also. I just plan on taking everything nice & slow. Been doing some therapy with some EMDR too. I really like the therapist so I am sure that helps. I'm working on stuff that has been around for about 40 years, so I can't expect everything to clear up all at once. 

You take care,

Zoe

[mammaP]

Hi Jose, I am really concerned for you that you stopped venlafaxine without tapering.

 

I'm glad that you are doing well and sincerely hope that you continue to get better.

Keep posting and let us know how you are getting on, and don't hesitate to ask

for help if you need it.  

[Petunia]

Petu,

I see in your signature that you just made 1 year off medication. Congratulations! How are you doing one year on?

Would really like to hear from you what effect you have noticed from the supplements, which ones you believe have worked better for you. Is Zinc any good?

Thank you Jose, I wish I could say I'm doing really well after being off for a year, but I'm not.  I'm slightly better, but still get some brutal waves and my mornings are never good. I wish I had known what I know now.

 

What I've found with most supplements that I've tried is that at first, they seem to help, then they either stop helping or turn paradoxical, making me feel worse.  This is always confusing. I've tried a lot more than what I have listed in my signature.  The supplements in my signature without a line through them are the ones I think are actually helping.  

 

I believe that if I had researched nutrient therapy before ever starting on pharmaceutical drugs, I probably could have done a lot to relieve some of my underlying issues, which I think I have, but now, my nervous system is very sensitive and can't seem to handle any changes at all.  I think I have too much copper and probably do need extra zinc, but it, along with the B6 was making me feel worse, I think it was displacing stored copper like a detox.  Since stopping both B6 and zinc I'm feeling a bit calmer and not so mentally unstable.  I've been documenting my whole process in my introduction thread, I added a link to it in my signature.

 

I hope you start to feel better soon, why did you decide to go cold turkey off 37.5mg and not taper?

 

Petu.

[Jose]

Hi Jose-

 

I am doing pretty well. I am just sticking with the 14 mgs. for awhile. I am finally after about a year feeling a let up in my anxiety levels. I am trying probiotics and eliminating wheat to see if that helps also. I just plan on taking everything nice & slow. Been doing some therapy with some EMDR too. I really like the therapist so I am sure that helps. I'm working on stuff that has been around for about 40 years, so I can't expect everything to clear up all at once. 

You take care,

Zoe

 

 

Hi Zoe. First time I read about EMDR. Some fascinating stuff out there to help. I'm really glad it's working for you.

I'm trying relaxation through hypnosis, only been doing for ten days, it seems to help when the day wobbles.

Take care and best wishes to you.

[Jose]

Hi Jose, I am really concerned for you that you stopped venlafaxine without tapering.

 

I'm glad that you are doing well and sincerely hope that you continue to get better.

Keep posting and let us know how you are getting on, and don't hesitate to ask

for help if you need it.  

Thank you mammaP, I will.

I'm not so bad, have my moments of despair but overall seem to be improving, and the will remains strong through the hard times, which I think is the most important.

The worst part was about one month ago, despair and helplessness hit really bad.

Having some trouble thinking but I feel it's improving. Relaxation is helping get my concentration back.

I do know it will be a long journey, so I'd better get comfortable.

My best thoughts to you.

[Jose]

 

Petu,

I see in your signature that you just made 1 year off medication. Congratulations! How are you doing one year on?

Would really like to hear from you what effect you have noticed from the supplements, which ones you believe have worked better for you. Is Zinc any good?

Thank you Jose, I wish I could say I'm doing really well after being off for a year, but I'm not.  I'm slightly better, but still get some brutal waves and my mornings are never good. I wish I had known what I know now.

 

What I've found with most supplements that I've tried is that at first, they seem to help, then they either stop helping or turn paradoxical, making me feel worse.  This is always confusing. I've tried a lot more than what I have listed in my signature.  The supplements in my signature without a line through them are the ones I think are actually helping.  

 

I believe that if I had researched nutrient therapy before ever starting on pharmaceutical drugs, I probably could have done a lot to relieve some of my underlying issues, which I think I have, but now, my nervous system is very sensitive and can't seem to handle any changes at all.  I think I have too much copper and probably do need extra zinc, but it, along with the B6 was making me feel worse, I think it was displacing stored copper like a detox.  Since stopping both B6 and zinc I'm feeling a bit calmer and not so mentally unstable.  I've been documenting my whole process in my introduction thread, I added a link to it in my signature.

 

I hope you start to feel better soon, why did you decide to go cold turkey off 37.5mg and not taper?

 

Petu.

 

Hello Petu,

Thanks for these lines.

I'm taking magnesium, omega 3 and spirulina (started a few days ago with this one, but cannot tell if it's actually doing anything).

About coming off 37.5mg, I must confess I did it because I went to see a homeopathy expert that had good referrals and she persuaded me to take some of the stuff she makes and leave the medication. Two months down the line I am not convinced what she gave me made anything different than placebo, but the truth is, it made me decide to stop the medication. I'm not going to think too much about it, just move on.

Have you tried relaxation right after breakfast? I have bad mornings also and this seems to help, a little.

I hope you carry on improving. Best.

[Bellisimo]

Hey Jose. Just wanna jump in and say iam following your journey

[Jose]

Hello, friends in the struggle.

Thought of writing to let you know how things are going.

I'm nearly three months off venlafaxine now.

Last week I went through a pretty bad period, it lasted about 4 days. Funny how the first time I hit the wall was around day 40 after coming off, and the second one has been around day 80.

So it seems I have to watch out for the 40-day wave.

Now I'm doing reasonably ok, except for the mornings, which are consistently bad with anxiety and feelings of giving up. Then as the day goes on it usually improves, sometimes considerably.

I'm doing regular exercise 3-4 times a week and that seems to be helping a lot.

Also I do relaxation and self-hypnosis exercises, normally twice a day, 15-20 minutes at a time. This helps much also.

My level of energy seems to be improving, in part thanks to the exercise, I think. Sometimes when my energy level goes up I also get this rage that I try to control through breathing and meditation.

Anyway that's my update! Still moving on.

Best

[Petunia]

Thank you for the update Jose,

You seem to be improving slowly and that's good to hear.  The rage you sometimes experience is probably a neuro-emotion, we have a topic about it here:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/137-neuro-emotion/

 

I'm glad you are managing it with breathing and meditation.

 

Petu.

[Jose]

Thank you for the update Jose,

You seem to be improving slowly and that's good to hear.  The rage you sometimes experience is probably a neuro-emotion, we have a topic about it here:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/137-neuro-emotion/

 

I'm glad you are managing it with breathing and meditation.

 

Petu.

Thank you Petu.

The thread about neuro-emotions is really good, and it's shocking to see oneself in it while reading. My wife keeps telling me it's not real when I go through one of those horrible trances, but then it's so hard to look out and disconnect. I wish I could walk out from it like walking out of a movie theater if I don't like the film.

I'll try and call it neuro-emotion next time, right on the face.

Best wishes.

[Jose]

Dear friends on the path to recovery,

I wanted to update you on progress since I stopped taking 37.5mg of venlafaxine nearly four months ago.

The mornings are still awful, I wake up agitated and struggle to go back to sleep. Some days it is better, and I can so much feel the difference throughout the day when I have had a good sleep.

Two weeks ago I went through a pretty bad set of days, started having panic attacks out of nowhere, I'm handling them relatively well but those of you who have suffered panic attacks will know how horrible the experience is. My anxiety level is going through a rough time now.

On the other hand, I am persevering (and this is something that is making me feel better) in eating well, going to bed and waking up at the same time, doing some regular exercise, relaxation and meditation, and I think this is having a major impact, somehow it feels I am making progress and also that it could be much worse if I didn't do the 'regular maintenance'.

As I said, just the fact that I am keeping some consistency and routine makes me feel better about progress. I know it will still take me months to leave this hell, and so many times the idea comes to mind: should I go back to medication to avoid this suffering? but then I realize there is no way around it. This path must be walked.

Deep inside I can feel that the very reason that made me fall into the trap of antidepressants over and over again was my reluctance to accept the necessary suffering of life.

Of course this suffering in withdrawal is well beyond the suffering anyone should go through in life, but like one of our colleagues in the forum very wisely told me, there is no fast track, healing takes time and suffering.

In the meantime I try to do as much as I can to alleviate the pain, psychological and physical. I am taking omega 3 in the morning and before going to bed (400mg EPA and 300 mg DHA each take), magnesium (500mg daily) and some vitamin D. I have read the posts on magnesium and omega 3, but if anyone has any suggestion I will be very grateful.

I have been doing relaxation through self-hypnosis and regular relaxation exercises for around 3 months. It helps lower the anxiety and some days it makes a huge difference. Also a week ago I started meditating every day, I feel it has a significant effect in my thinking patterns during the day.

Anyhow, I am hoping I will find the strength to persevere throughout this journey, and I wish you also all the best in your own battles.

Very grateful to the community here for giving invaluable information and support.

Jose

[alex]

Good for you Josè,yes, you are on your path to recovery.

I am not out of the woods yet, but my terror days are over; now I have to deal with some "floating" anxiety, and anhedonia, and the normal trauma after such a terrifying experience.

 

Hang in there, it gets better.

 

Adelante con los faroles....

[Altostrata]

"This path must be walked."

 

Striking insights, Jose, thank you.

 

You can find more suggestions for healing strategies in the Symptoms and Self-care forum.

[Rhiannon]

Yes, good insights, thank you for sharing them.

 

Jose, if we have people who are wanting to drop off their meds at higher doses like you did, can we ask them to talk to you about your experience? As you know we advise people to taper on down to a low dose before they stop. Maybe your experience could help encourage them to stay the course with their taper and wait until a lower dose to drop off. How would you feel about that?

 

You sound wise and it sounds like you are doing what you need to do for yourself, and your wife is a good support. You have the strength. You just need to take it one day at a time, you will emerge eventually.

[Rhiannon]

Oh, and I apologize for not answering your question back in March about my multiple meds, I didn't see it.

 

The answer is that it was all mostly accidental; one doctor gave me one thing and then another doctor something else for side effects and then another doctor something else when I was trying to quit one of my drugs too fast and got very ill. Finally I just ended up on a handful of meds. This is how my life went for about 20 years, on and off various drugs, before I realized that the drugs were the cause of my problems.

 

So the meds I am tapering from now just happen to be the ones I was on at the time when I realized the drugs were the cause of my problems and were only making me get worse and worse.  It's just how it happened, not a wise or careful combination.

[Jose]

Good for you Josè,yes, you are on your path to recovery.

I am not out of the woods yet, but my terror days are over; now I have to deal with some "floating" anxiety, and anhedonia, and the normal trauma after such a terrifying experience.

 

Hang in there, it gets better.

 

Adelante con los faroles....

Thank you Alex, it is so comforting to know about your progress, keep climbing, vamos!

Jose

[Jose]

"This path must be walked."

 

Striking insights, Jose, thank you.

 

You can find more suggestions for healing strategies in the Symptoms and Self-care forum.

Thanks Altostrata. I will look for those.

[Jose]

Yes, good insights, thank you for sharing them.

 

Jose, if we have people who are wanting to drop off their meds at higher doses like you did, can we ask them to talk to you about your experience? As you know we advise people to taper on down to a low dose before they stop. Maybe your experience could help encourage them to stay the course with their taper and wait until a lower dose to drop off. How would you feel about that?

 

You sound wise and it sounds like you are doing what you need to do for yourself, and your wife is a good support. You have the strength. You just need to take it one day at a time, you will emerge eventually.

Hello Rhi,

Thanks for your messages.

No problem about your suggestion.

I would encourage other people to go through the taper route to avoid hitting the wall, it can be very frightening, and I've only been four months through it. Of course I don't know what it is like to taper gradually because I did come off cold turkey, although not a a very high dose, but the experiences of many of you here who have tapered are invaluable.

Do persevere in your path, I wish you good progress. Jose

[Jose]

Dear friends

It's five months off drugs for me today and I wanted to share progress.

I'm still struggling with anxiety many days, considerable anhedonia, clumsy thinking, memory loss and the sudden waves of urge and regret that hit hard.

But it seems to be improving slowly. I get some good days (yesterday was remarkably good), mornings are not as bad these days, and my concentration is getting better.

I've been meditating and doing mild yoga every day for the last 6 weeks and this has had a wonderful impact. Slow, but wonderful.

I know it is still a long way to go, but I am very grateful to have the determination to tell myself everyday: "you are doing the right thing, keep going", and the support of my family. Also grateful to live in a time where I can come to a forum like this, to learn, share, support and be supported.

I wish you all good in your personal journeys.

Jose

[mlrp]

Wow, Jose. We haven't met, but I'm so happy to hear of your progress. I look to you and others who are persevering and staying positive for inspiration! I wish you steady, continued recovery. Way to go, Jose!!

[Jose]

Wow, Jose. We haven't met, but I'm so happy to hear of your progress. I look to you and others who are persevering and staying positive for inspiration! I wish you steady, continued recovery. Way to go, Jose!!

Thank you so much mlrp, for your kind support.

Every day I believe more strongly in the power of perseverance. I am trying to keep it simple and stick to it without allowing myself to have many exceptions.

I wish you strength and perseverance also, to keep moving in the right direction, without caring about how fast.

[alex]

Wow Josè!!

Good for you....at five months off, I was dying, as simple as that...

I'm still struggling, but better.

 

Un abrazo.

[Jose]

Wow Josè!!

Good for you....at five months off, I was dying, as simple as that...

I'm still struggling, but better.

 

Un abrazo.

Amigo Alex,

Thanks for writing.

I have doubts about when really bad episodes can recur, as I've learned from your experience and the experience of so many of you that the healing takes long. These past five months I have had terrible moments, days and weeks but surely I keep going, trying to enjoy the good moments of mental peace and working hard to make them more and more frequent. Through the struggle I am finding strenght I never thought I had before. Many times I remember something that you told me: "you never know how strong you are until you have to be". I'm really happy you are improving. You and others in this forum are guiding lights for so many of us.

Un abrazo. Jose

[Jose]

Dear friends,

I'm past six months off venlafaxine and wanted to write my monthly update.

The change from the previous month is very modest, but I feel some progress, I think especially in the ability to tolerate the suffering.

The ability to think straight is very slowly coming back, it's not as bad as it was during months 2 to 4 for example, but it's still not good. I find it very hard to elaborate on thoughts, follow long discourses or read and absorb complex texts. But once again, there is some progress.

However, I still notice much impairment in memory, this is something I am particularly worried about, I hope it does improve in the future.

Obsessive thinking is still around, although again I must stress how grateful I am to meditation for helping me cope with them. If I meditate every day I find it much easier to get my mind back in place and stay away from obsessive thoughts, and the days that I skip meditation I find myself wondering more.

Insomnia is still there. 2-3 days a week I struggle to sleep well, and of course this has a knock-on effect during the day.

What I find hardest to cope with is the mornings. Most mornings are still pretty horrible, with lots of anxiety, flu-like body feelings, spells of despairs and depression, crazy thoughts about 'no way out of this', but generally all these gradually fade out after lunch.

The change between morning and afternoon is striking sometimes. Like a different reality. It feels crazy sometimes.

In summary, progressing slowly, and struggling with the suffering, but progressing. Thanks again to this forum and you all for being there, I wish you well in your personal journeys.

Jose