Jose 15 years is enough

[Jose]

Hello everyone.

 

It's nearly 8 months since I came off venlafaxine.

Slowly improving, going through the windows and waves pattern of recovery.

I went through a horrible period around months 4-5, now it's better. I can sleep relatively well now (6 hours) and I do have good days now and then.

 

However, mornings are still bad. Sometimes really bad. The anxiety and despair kick off shortly after waking up and they generally stay until noon, to then fade away or sometimes disappear suddenly. Sometimes it's like two different realities, difficult to understand.

I've read about the cortisol response in the forums.

 

I wanted to ask your opinions/recommendations on how to deal with the bad mornings. Is it better to take some supplements in the morning rather than before going to bed? Any activities / techniques that help you ease the morning anxiety?

 

Thank you so much

[Cdav]

Hi Jose. 

 

I have the same problem with mornings. And then it gets better as the day goes on. You said it perfectly, "it's like two different realities". My doctor says this is a symptom of major depressive disorder. But I never had these kinds of horrible anxiety/depression in the morning before taking antidepressants. This has been one of the most difficult things for me to endure since withdrawal. When this happens to me it's like since the moment I feel a touch of consciousness, a huge weight falls over me and I feel hopeless, jittery, tearful, unable to start the day. 

 

I really don't know what tips to give you except my understanding and compassion. 

 

In my case since it's EXTREMELY bad, often with akathisia and suicidal feelings, I take 0.5 klonopin. 

L-Tryptophan also helped for a couple of months but then my brain zaps got worse. 

I try to exercise almost every morning even when I think it's impossible to move, and I almost always feel better afterwards. 

 

I think these bad anxiety mornings will get better with time, once we continue healing. I hope so! I wish you happy mornings. Let me know if you found something to make you feel better during the mornings. As I would really could use some extra tips. 

[bubble]

 Hi Jose, I moved your post here, to keep it with your progress notes.

[Rhiannon]

Hi Jose--I'm delighted to hear that you're seeing ongoing improvement.

 

The mornings will get better too.

 

The pattern of bad mornings and good evenings is very typical in withdrawal and recovery. We attribute it to the daily fluctuation in cortisol levels. I hate it too! You and Cdav describe it perfectly. I get the same way, for a short time, after making cuts in my meds. 

 

I think there are a couple of threads on the topic with various suggestions. You could try searching using Google. Enter "survivingantidepressants cortisol"--

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1CASMAE_enUS594US595&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=survivingantidepressants%20cortisol

 

yes, it looks like we have a lot of discussion of it here.

 

Cdav, your doctor doesn't know what he or she is talking about. Symptom of MDD, indeed. Of course, the side effects of drug use and withdrawal always get blamed on the "illness." That way you can be $old even more drugs. 

[Jose]

Hi Jose. 

 

I have the same problem with mornings. And then it gets better as the day goes on. You said it perfectly, "it's like two different realities". My doctor says this is a symptom of major depressive disorder. But I never had these kinds of horrible anxiety/depression in the morning before taking antidepressants. This has been one of the most difficult things for me to endure since withdrawal. When this happens to me it's like since the moment I feel a touch of consciousness, a huge weight falls over me and I feel hopeless, jittery, tearful, unable to start the day. 

 

I really don't know what tips to give you except my understanding and compassion. 

 

In my case since it's EXTREMELY bad, often with akathisia and suicidal feelings, I take 0.5 klonopin. 

L-Tryptophan also helped for a couple of months but then my brain zaps got worse. 

I try to exercise almost every morning even when I think it's impossible to move, and I almost always feel better afterwards. 

 

I think these bad anxiety mornings will get better with time, once we continue healing. I hope so! I wish you happy mornings. Let me know if you found something to make you feel better during the mornings. As I would really could use some extra tips. 

Thanks Cdav, will let you know.

Best wishes to you too.

[Jose]

Hi Jose--I'm delighted to hear that you're seeing ongoing improvement.

 

The mornings will get better too.

 

The pattern of bad mornings and good evenings is very typical in withdrawal and recovery. We attribute it to the daily fluctuation in cortisol levels. I hate it too! You and Cdav describe it perfectly. I get the same way, for a short time, after making cuts in my meds. 

 

I think there are a couple of threads on the topic with various suggestions. You could try searching using Google. Enter "survivingantidepressants cortisol"--

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1CASMAE_enUS594US595&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=survivingantidepressants%20cortisol

 

yes, it looks like we have a lot of discussion of it here.

 

Cdav, your doctor doesn't know what he or she is talking about. Symptom of MDD, indeed. Of course, the side effects of drug use and withdrawal always get blamed on the "illness." That way you can be $old even more drugs. 

Thanks Rhi, I will have a look at these.

Best, Jose

[Jose]

 Hi Jose, I moved your post here, to keep it with your progress notes.

Ok Bubble, thank you. Jose

[Jose]

Hello everyone.

I've been 10 months off any medication after I stopped taking 37.5mg venlafaxine, no tapering.

After 6 weeks I crashed and have been suffering from protracted withdrawal. The first 5 months were particularly bad, it's gradually getting better. This struggle is helping me build resilience in many ways, but as many of you know sometimes desperation takes over and it is difficult to bear.

I've been on the windows and waves journey, on a hard wave right now.

 

Depending on how things progress in the next months I might consider coming back on medication and taper from there.

My question is, if I do it, is it best to go back to venlafaxine or should I better go with a longer life kind of drug?

 

Ultimately, would appreciate if you could share your experiences about going back to the meds after a long period of withdrawal. Does it make sense at all? Frankly speaking, I'm at a point where I wonder whether I made the right choice. Proud of what I have achieved so far, but sometimes doubtful of the long term perspective.

Thank you all.

[Altostrata]

Jose, I moved your post here, to update your Intro topic.

 

At 10 months off, no one can predict how taking any antidepressant will affect you.

 

It's a good sign you've seen some improvement. It can take many months or years to recover from cold turkey.

[Jose]

Jose, I moved your post here, to update your Intro topic.

 

At 10 months off, no one can predict how taking any antidepressant will affect you.

 

It's a good sign you've seen some improvement. It can take many months or years to recover from cold turkey.

Thank you Altostrata.

Anxiety is not as bad as it was, the mornings are getting better, and I'm often able to sleep 6 hours solid, although I generally wake up feeling tired.

Exercise, meditation and breathing do help me very much, but sometimes the balance doesn't last very long, and as soon as I encounter a frustrating or stressful situation I go into 'tunnel' mode, where obsessive thoughts and desperation take over. The perspective is totally lost then.

One paradoxical thing about the windows and waves pattern is that when the last wave hits it can trigger the most stressful thoughts and emotions, evolving around questions like "is this ever going to end?", "how, after all this time and the progress made, can my situation get so bad again?". Sometimes it's impossible to acknowledge or recognize any improvement at all, even when the facts are there to prove there is much improvement.

I'm working on accepting the possibility of irreversible damage and keep working from there. Then it probably won't be so bad. Worrying and catastrophizing only makes things worse, so psychological work is a remarkable task here, with the complication that you're trying to build psychological resilience using a system that is unstable. Anyway this is something all of us here know.

I hope you and the peers in this group are improving, best wishes from my heart.

Jose

[alex]

Hola Josè.

Going back on medication is very personal.My advice is don't do it.You can make things a lot worse.

10 months off is not much;as a matter of fact, it can be the worst moment.

I almost died at 9-10 months off.But I survived, and I'm glad I did, because now, 2 and a half years off, I am seeing big improvement.

The fact that you are able to sleep is a blessing in this process.

 

Hang in there, it WILL get better.Don't poison your brain again.

[Jose]

Hola Josè.

Going back on medication is very personal.My advice is don't do it.You can make things a lot worse.

10 months off is not much;as a matter of fact, it can be the worst moment.

I almost died at 9-10 months off.But I survived, and I'm glad I did, because now, 2 and a half years off, I am seeing big improvement.

The fact that you are able to sleep is a blessing in this process.

 

Hang in there, it WILL get better.Don't poison your brain again.

Hola Alex!

Thanks for your encouraging and supportive words.

You're right, it's not such a long time. In fact, when I decided to quit venlafaxine I told myself it would be a long process, one year, two years, possibly longer.

One of the fundamental reasons why I became depressed and went into antidepressants many years ago is a low tolerance for frustration, or in other words, my tendency to catastrophize about problems and inconvenience, giving up easily. So it is a necessary learning process to build up new perspectives and resilience, but you know, when fear and desperation take over there is no end in sight.

Things do improve. I'm also learning to recognize that it is not so much about changing myself and evolving onto something else, but to truly accept who I am and move on from there, with compassion and love. This feeling alone takes so much anxiety off.

We keep walking then.

Very happy to read you are feeling well.

Thanks again.

Jose

[Altostrata]

Jose, how are you doing?

 

Please do post here from time to time. Reading your Intro topic can be a good way to see how far you've come.

[Jose]

Jose, how are you doing?

 

Please do post here from time to time. Reading your Intro topic can be a good way to see how far you've come.

Alto, thank you for asking.

I'm approaching my first anniversary since I stopped the venlafaxine.

In a nutshell, I am progressing slowly. Anxiety is not as bad as it was and I can sleep for 5 or 6 hours more days than not.

The background noise of anxiety and depression is there most the time though.

I do all sorts of things to help my recovery: yoga three or four times a week, exercise also every other day, supplements (omega3, magnesium, vitamins E, D3 and C, probiotics), meditation, mindfulness, breathing exercises, spiritual readings, you name it. I am also on psychotherapy (emotional behavioral type) and it is helping control obsessive negative thoughts, I see myself much more capable of breaking the downward spiral.

I still have many physical or mental symptoms though, and these make me feel really bad at times, particularly the slow thinking, or inability to think sometimes, the blockages, the memory problems (I keep forgetting all sorts of things even though I repeat them many times), difficult concentration, numbness... The body aches many times, flu-like symptoms like many friends report here. Lack of coordination/stability and wobbly legs.

But I must say, these symptoms come and go. I am on a 2-3 month-long wave where these issues have shown up regularly, but the last few days I have been improving.

Overall, I'm better than I was a few months ago. Very tough and challenging journey, though.

I have come to terms with the fact that it will still take many months to see a clear improvement, so I start from there.

I truly appreciate the compassion and the courage of all of you here. Keep walking.

Will keep posting, I really hope my experience can help others like those of others are helping me.

Jose

[Jose]

Hello dear friends.

This is an update, some 14 months since I stopped taking venlafaxine.

After my last post I went through a beautiful window of around 3 weeks. It felt like heaven after what I had been through.

I'm back on a wave since then, some stressful situations have contributed to this but I am managing well overall. Physical symptoms are gradually improving, I think mainly because of exercise.

As for the mind, slowly improving, learning to accept this pain so I it becomes easier to manage. A lot of psychological work to build the right blocks while my system recovers.

I am working particularly hard on coming off my obsession about depression and medication withdrawal, because I realized I get stuck in these ideas and make it worse. So trying to focus on little things that do me good, the little pleasures, nudging myself into self acceptance and compassion, and building loooots of patience.

I hope you guys are finding and living the things that help you get better.

Love,
Jose

[Flowers]

Hi Jose

 

Your post was lovely to read - so glad you are doing well and coping with the waves as they come along.

 

It really helps me to read how others are finding ways to cope with the WD symptoms. You are clearly doing all you can possibly do to help yourself get through this.

 

I wish you well on the rest of your journey.

 

Best Wishes

 

Flowers xxx

[alex]

Great job Josè.

You'll get there.

 

Un fuerte abrazo.

[Jose]

Hi Jose

 

Your post was lovely to read - so glad you are doing well and coping with the waves as they come along.

 

It really helps me to read how others are finding ways to cope with the WD symptoms. You are clearly doing all you can possibly do to help yourself get through this.

 

I wish you well on the rest of your journey.

 

Best Wishes

 

Flowers xxx

Thanks Flowers.

I wish you the best, too. This is a very difficult struggle that requires help from many dimensions, and knowing about progress of others in this forum is one of them.

All the best to you.

Jose

[Jose]

Great job Josè.

You'll get there.

 

Un fuerte abrazo.

Gracias Alex. I hope you are well.

Un abrazo fuerte.

[cathnz]

On 5/20/2015 at 9:55 PM, Jose said:

Hello dear friends.

This is an update, some 14 months since I stopped taking venlafaxine.

After my last post I went through a beautiful window of around 3 weeks. It felt like heaven after what I had been through.

I'm back on a wave since then, some stressful situations have contributed to this but I am managing well overall. Physical symptoms are gradually improving, I think mainly because of exercise.

As for the mind, slowly improving, learning to accept this pain so I it becomes easier to manage. A lot of psychological work to build the right blocks while my system recovers.

I am working particularly hard on coming off my obsession about depression and medication withdrawal, because I realized I get stuck in these ideas and make it worse. So trying to focus on little things that do me good, the little pleasures, nudging myself into self acceptance and compassion, and building loooots of patience.

I hope you guys are finding and living the things that help you get better.

Love,
Jose

@Josehow are you doing these days? Your post above reminds me so much of how I feel 😭