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Man end up ward of state after minor nasal surgery


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www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2569188/Family-living-nightmare-claim-son-held-against-hospital-forced-drugs-does-not-need-admitted-minor-nasal-surgery.html

 

This was posted on the MIA site.  It is about a 27 year old man who had surgery for polyps which reappeared and was given prednisone for the inflammation.   To make a long story short, he experienced insomnia as a side effect which led to more drugs which caused him to get worse.

 

His parents became his legal guardian due to a previous agreement with the son and when they objected to the treatment, the hospital pulled a power play and got him committed as a ward of the state.  He is now  on psych meds even though he allegedly has a very serious viral infection.

 

This is just like the Justina Pelletier situation which people can google.

 

This freaked me out big time because besides antibiotics, I was going to be given steroids post operatively and that scared the sh-t out of me.  I suspect this poor guy was told to keep taking the prednisone after he initially experienced side effects much to his great detriment.  

 

Very upsetting situation.

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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Very distressing, and I could see why it would upset you at this juncture. 

 

I wonder if Mindfreedom has been contacted?  Sounds like he could probably use some help. 

I am not a medical professional and nothing I say is a medical opinion or meant to be medical advice, please seek a competent and trusted medical professional to consult for all medical decisions.

 

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Jim Gottstein is aware of the situation.

 

The situation is more complex than I initially thought as he has been diagnosed with Autoimmune Encephalitis.   Apparently hospital wanted to transfer him to Johns Hopkins, which supposedly is one of the best hospitals for treating this condition, which the family objected to.   There are alot of missing details.

 

But here is what I am guessing happened.   As he became sicker due to this undiagnosed condition, he got all these psych meds thrown at him which most likely made him worse that the family objected to and in which resulted in them losing custody.

 

If his condition is as serious as the hospital alleges, then what is the game plan for treating him?

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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Very distressing, and I could see why it would upset you at this juncture. 

 

I wonder if Mindfreedom has been contacted?  Sounds like he could probably use some help. 

This taught me to never ever take a drug I am not comfortable with.   I almost forgot that lesson and could have paid dearly for it based on my history of adverse reactions. 

 

And it isn't like there aren't OTC remedies for controlling inflammation.   Many plastic surgeons according to research I did had their patients taking Arnica pre and post op to control swelling.  

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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Jim Gottstein is aware of the situation.

 

The situation is more complex than I initially thought as he has been diagnosed with Autoimmune Encephalitis.   Apparently hospital wanted to transfer him to Johns Hopkins, which supposedly is one of the best hospitals for treating this condition, which the family objected to.   There are alot of missing details.

 

But here is what I am guessing happened.   As he became sicker due to this undiagnosed condition, he got all these psych meds thrown at him which most likely made him worse that the family objected to and in which resulted in them losing custody.

 

If his condition is as serious as the hospital alleges, then what is the game plan for treating him?

 

Eek.  He has encephalitis?  I don't know that much about it but from what I do understand it easily could explain his psych issues.  The last thing he's going to need are psych drugs.  I hope Jim Gottstein can get in there and get it sorted out quickly. 

I am not a medical professional and nothing I say is a medical opinion or meant to be medical advice, please seek a competent and trusted medical professional to consult for all medical decisions.

 

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Very distressing, and I could see why it would upset you at this juncture. 

 

I wonder if Mindfreedom has been contacted?  Sounds like he could probably use some help. 

This taught me to never ever take a drug I am not comfortable with.   I almost forgot that lesson and could have paid dearly for it based on my history of adverse reactions. 

 

And it isn't like there aren't OTC remedies for controlling inflammation.   Many plastic surgeons according to research I did had their patients taking Arnica pre and post op to control swelling.  

 

It's hard isn't it with the drug sensitivity--I don't go out of my way to take drugs but over time I've started to forget just how sensitive I am, and it worries me that if I go a long period without ever taking something I might really think I'm okay.  It's very likely I won't be, but it's easy to get complacent about it when it's been a long time since you've taken one. 

I am not a medical professional and nothing I say is a medical opinion or meant to be medical advice, please seek a competent and trusted medical professional to consult for all medical decisions.

 

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Hi US,

 

Have you thought about what you would do in case you have no choice but to take meds such as if you're forced to have surgery?  I mean, if god forbid you end with hight cholestorol or high blood pressure, it is pretty easy to come with non med alternatives.  Unfortunately, they don't exist for anesthesia. :)

 

All jokes aside, it just too bad that that plastic surgeons can't do all the surgeries as they seem to be most enlightened nutrition and supplement wise.   On many sites, they were advising their patients what to take for supplements and food post and pre op.   Even though I obviously have no proof, it is like they knew exactly how to advise their patients to have the fastest recovery possible from surgery.

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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Oh no, I hope you didn't think I meant to imply you had a ton of options re taking drug/anesthetics, or having surgery.  I know there are situations where people can't get around taking something, or around surgery, and I didn't want to make it sound like you had reams of choices.  I often don't think about anesthetics though as, due to another health condition, I already can't have some of them.  So I'm in a serious bind in that I haven't a clue what the other ones might do--but if I take the ones on the "no go" list, they could kill me.  No doctor with a clue would administer them to me either, so long as they are aware of the condition, even psychiatrists generally tended to listen to me (when they wouldn't otherwise) when I mentioned it.   So basically if I'm in a position where surgery is unavoidable I basically am going to be stuck taking certain ones, as the risk of the others is simply too high. With regards to other drugs though, I honestly don't know what I would do.  I have a living will expressly because of the various sensitivities I have (some of which go over and above withdrawal-related ones--they have to do with the other health problem). Because of the other health problem, it's possible I might be more sensitive to drugs to begin with (long story.)  So it's a rock and a hard place for sure.  I've already had one situation crop up where it was looking like I was going to have to take a drug for a possibly serious health problem.  With that one I wound up trying a supplement that I honestly wasn't sure would work; I really didn't know what to do, the situation cropped up quickly, and at the time I was so foggy-headed it was too much to process. Basically I was left making a choice based on gut instinct. In the end I got lucky as it turned out I had been misled; I didn't have the condition for which the drug was indicated.  So I narrowly missed taking a drug I didn't need.   After that I was left really unsure as to what I would do re drugs in a similar situation.  It seemed likely the supplement wasn't going to help (if I really had had the condition) so had I been correctly diagnosed I probably would have just taken the drug and hoped for the best. 

 

Re the plastic surgeons, interesting, I didn't know they were so on top of supplements, etc...

I am not a medical professional and nothing I say is a medical opinion or meant to be medical advice, please seek a competent and trusted medical professional to consult for all medical decisions.

 

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I should have added, so that people reading here who have had adverse reactions to ADs already don't get the wrong idea--the health condition I mentioned having that makes anesthetics dangerous for me is a very uncommon genetic issue that a person would be very likely to know about if it ran in their family.  If you've had an AD reaction it doesn't mean you have this condition.  It also has no connection at all to sleep issues--so the particular anesthetics I am talking about, while exceedingly dangerous for me to take (regardless of withdrawal) could be perfectly safe for you.  Ditto that re the other drugs I didn't list which I can't have. 

 

Oh and it also has nothing to do  with being a non-metabolizer of drugs as is discussed in the thread about genetic testing.  That is a whole separate issue.

I am not a medical professional and nothing I say is a medical opinion or meant to be medical advice, please seek a competent and trusted medical professional to consult for all medical decisions.

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

I should have added, so that people reading here who have had adverse reactions to ADs already don't get the wrong idea--the health condition I mentioned having that makes anesthetics dangerous for me is a very uncommon genetic issue that a person would be very likely to know about if it ran in their family.  If you've had an AD reaction it doesn't mean you have this condition.  It also has no connection at all to sleep issues--so the particular anesthetics I am talking about, while exceedingly dangerous for me to take (regardless of withdrawal) could be perfectly safe for you.  Ditto that re the other drugs I didn't list which I can't have. 

 

Oh and it also has nothing to do  with being a non-metabolizer of drugs as is discussed in the thread about genetic testing.  That is a whole separate issue.

Hi Unfolding.. forgive if you have already discussed this.. For minor procedures (have not had any major ones thankfully), I'm given propofol only. I refuse the benzos, and cannot take general anesthesia as I end up with projectile vomiting of 2 to 3 days duration (popped sutures anyone, or plan on sending me home the day of the surgery?) No rare genetic condition here, but I've been aware of having this sort of reaction since I was 9 and had anesthesia for the first time because an arm needed to be set. My response has not gotten better with the years regardless of improvements in medicine.

 

Skyler

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Hi Skyler,

 

That sounds frightening.  Are you allergic to them? 

 

I know I used to be able to tolerate certain kinds of anesthesia before withdrawal.  I had a surgery before where they used one which is appropriate for someone with my condition.  Not sure what kind it was though.  I know the name of one I definitely can't have though I have never been able to spell it.

 

US

I am not a medical professional and nothing I say is a medical opinion or meant to be medical advice, please seek a competent and trusted medical professional to consult for all medical decisions.

 

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I should have added, so that people reading here who have had adverse reactions to ADs already don't get the wrong idea--the health condition I mentioned having that makes anesthetics dangerous for me is a very uncommon genetic issue that a person would be very likely to know about if it ran in their family.  If you've had an AD reaction it doesn't mean you have this condition.  It also has no connection at all to sleep issues--so the particular anesthetics I am talking about, while exceedingly dangerous for me to take (regardless of withdrawal) could be perfectly safe for you.  Ditto that re the other drugs I didn't list which I can't have. 

 

Oh and it also has nothing to do  with being a non-metabolizer of drugs as is discussed in the thread about genetic testing.  That is a whole separate issue.

Hi Unfolding.. forgive if you have already discussed this.. For minor procedures (have not had any major ones thankfully), I'm given propofol only. I refuse the benzos, and cannot take general anesthesia as I end up with projectile vomiting of 2 to 3 days duration (popped sutures anyone, or plan on sending me home the day of the surgery?) No rare genetic condition here, but I've been aware of having this sort of reaction since I was 9 and had anesthesia for the first time because an arm needed to be set. My response has not gotten better with the years regardless of improvements in medicine.

 

Skyler

 

Wow Skyler, I am sorry you have suffered so much from anesthesia.   If I had gone through with my planned surgery today, I also would have refused the versed or any benzo.   My attitude was I was going to take as few drugs as possible and I saw no need for the Versed since I could substitute my guided imagery MP3 recordings as a way to deal with preop anxiety.

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh no, I hope you didn't think I meant to imply you had a ton of options re taking drug/anesthetics, or having surgery.  I know there are situations where people can't get around taking something, or around surgery, and I didn't want to make it sound like you had reams of choices.  I often don't think about anesthetics though as, due to another health condition, I already can't have some of them.  So I'm in a serious bind in that I haven't a clue what the other ones might do--but if I take the ones on the "no go" list, they could kill me.  No doctor with a clue would administer them to me either, so long as they are aware of the condition, even psychiatrists generally tended to listen to me (when they wouldn't otherwise) when I mentioned it.   So basically if I'm in a position where surgery is unavoidable I basically am going to be stuck taking certain ones, as the risk of the others is simply too high. With regards to other drugs though, I honestly don't know what I would do.  I have a living will expressly because of the various sensitivities I have (some of which go over and above withdrawal-related ones--they have to do with the other health problem). Because of the other health problem, it's possible I might be more sensitive to drugs to begin with (long story.)  So it's a rock and a hard place for sure.  I've already had one situation crop up where it was looking like I was going to have to take a drug for a possibly serious health problem.  With that one I wound up trying a supplement that I honestly wasn't sure would work; I really didn't know what to do, the situation cropped up quickly, and at the time I was so foggy-headed it was too much to process. Basically I was left making a choice based on gut instinct. In the end I got lucky as it turned out I had been misled; I didn't have the condition for which the drug was indicated.  So I narrowly missed taking a drug I didn't need.   After that I was left really unsure as to what I would do re drugs in a similar situation.  It seemed likely the supplement wasn't going to help (if I really had had the condition) so had I been correctly diagnosed I probably would have just taken the drug and hoped for the best. 

 

Re the plastic surgeons, interesting, I didn't know they were so on top of supplements, etc...

You're fine US as I didn't think anything like that at all. 

 

I hope you are never in a position where you are forced to have surgery and thankfully, you didn't take a drug you didn't need.

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Wow Skyler, I am sorry you have suffered so much from anesthesia.   If I had gone through with my planned surgery today, I also would have refused the versed or any benzo.   My attitude was I was going to take as few drugs as possible and I saw no need for the Versed since I could substitute my guided imagery MP3 recordings as a way to deal with preop anxiety.

But CS, I was saying it's possible to avoid types of anesthesia that give us a bad reaction. The first it made me sick was when I was nine yrs., and the second happened 40 years later.. I was told not to worry, anesthesia was much improved over when I was a child. Well, maybe so, but not for the type of reaction I get.. I was supposed to be ambulatory surgery, but spent 2 days in hospital because of the vomiting. The anesthesiologist then told me to tell any giving anesthesia in future.. (this was almost 20 additional years), that I could not tolerate general anesthesia.. like I had not said this before that procedure..

 

Since then, I've been adamant about my need to speak directly with the scheduled anesthesiologist, and there have been no further incidents. But I have had to be emphatic a couple of times.. nothing like a little advocacy. Anesthesiologists don't want to bring on a reaction that would endanger the patient.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Hi Skyler,

 

I am confused by your post as with my septoplasty and turbinate reduction, my own choices for anthesthesia are general anesthesia or monitoried anthesthesia care which I decided is not any less risky.  When I thought I was going to have surgery yesterday, I did speak to the anethesiologist ahead of time and found out what he would be providing and was comfortable with the choices other than the versed which I was going to skip.

 

Unfortunately, this place does not use BIS monitors which monitor the depth of anesthesia that can prevent under or overdosing.   The head anesthesiologist claimed it doesn't work accurately which is a whole other post.

 

Anyway, I expressed my concerns about being med sensitive and to be honest, felt like my concerns weren't being heard.  I think if sadly, I had some nasty reactions, they would have been as they seem to place a high priority on past history and not on what is relevant to your situation currently.

 

The good news is I feel my new ENT seems to be more sensitive about those issues and I will ask him how to raise them with an anesthesiologist. 

 

Sorry if I am missing something obvious as the question I would ask is what do you do, if you have no choice but to have general anesthesia?

 

CS

 

PS - Regarding vomiting, I thought that is now weasily resolved by adding meds ahead of time preop that take care of that.   What am I missing?

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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