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MollyN


MollyN

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Hey Molly!

 

Another Antipodean Learner-the-Hard-Way here!  (yeah, I had to learn nearly everything the hard way!).  Paxil is a real bear of a drug, and requires to be treated with respect!

 

Um, can you delay those Pilates?  While "core strength" can bolster the back and make you stronger - while you are in inflammation / pain - Pilates can be very damaging.  I know, I know, that's not what the physiotherapy people say, but I've got 40 years of yoga on my side to say that too much of Pilates is unsupported*and can strain the back and neck.  Unless you are superfit, I'd find something more gentle?  I've known people with HEALTHY backs who got injured in Pilates, and then needed months off.  I would not generally recommend it to someone who is already in pain.

 

*unsupported theoretically - it was designed by "a guy" who thought he could improve upon yoga to increase fitness, and therefore makes the natural yoga more extreme, and unsupported physically - as in you may find yourself hanging or straining in positions which don't properly protect your back, and especially not your back injury

 

Additionally, I don't know how it is in New Zealand, but in Australia, the level of fitness is very high, and the instructors don't touch you or even pay attention to you.  They are at the front of the class doing it beautifully, perfectly, and it's up to you to try and match their perfect form.  If you have no body awareness, you won't get the corrections, and you'll keep doing it "wrong" and run the risk of injury.  But if you are in pain, you can cause strain doing that - and if they don't offer corrections and modifications (interim positions or exercises that are not as difficult), they can put you in a world of hurt.  

 

In the USA, there is an advantage to the "sue you for all you've got" culture.  Fitness instructors of all types are incredibly cautious, even paranoid, especially of the spine and neck, and modifications, props, and corrections are part of the service.  Because if you get hurt, the American Way is to sue ($$$).  So American fitness classes are designed to be more "preventative" than Aussie ones - and I suspect that the Kiwi ones are similar to the Aussies.

 

I do enjoy classes because they help me with the discipline side of things (must - not - miss - class!) but in withdrawal, you may not have 8 good weeks in a row to attend, or you may find that it's "just not right," and maybe you should've taken the Zumba (or yoga or tai chi or karate or spinning) class instead.  Ask if you can observe a class.  Is the music too thumpy loud?  Do you see the teacher/s moving around the room shaping people's body?  Do you see people straining to get in the "right position" without any help from the teacher?  Do you see people that seem to be fine - but their body is in a different position to the teacher, and not getting corections?  These are warning signs for me.

 

Can you go to physio for awhile first for your back? Here in Oz, you don't even need a doctor referral, you just make an appointment with a physio and they offer treatment.  Different physios specialize in different things - there's one here who offers hydrotherapy (aaaaahhhh!) in addition to massage, manipulation and exercise.  And some of that, at least, might be covered by whatever Kiwis call Medicare?  Here, if you go to a GP, you can do an "allied health" program where you set goals, and you can get 5 sessions of adjunct services like physio, podiatry, dentist, occupational therapy, even optometrists.  So the physio could be cheap or free.  (definitely cheaper and safer than Pilates).

 

Meanwhile, you can take your own self improvement by taking short walks (remember those sunglasses!) or even try Qi Gong, which is very stabilising for the back and body, and calming for your irritability.  Qi Gong: 7 Minutes of Magic for Health

 

Or perhaps some gentle yoga?  Gentle yoga for calming

 

And these don't require financial and time commitment, and you can listen to your body.  For example, 15 minutes of walking might be fine, but maybe 20 minutes is activating, and you find your temper is flaring or your nerves are frayed.  So you are in control.  In a class, you are embarrassed to leave the class too soon, or not do all the exercises - and you're committed to the entire 8 week course.  It's harder to be in control of your own recovery, when you get on a program like that.

 

Welcome back to SA Molly!  I'm glad you're willing to try again, and hope you can take it nice and easy and slow so that you can achieve success!  

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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What a beautiful response JanCarol - it's always a wondrous thing when a stranger blesses you with their time and energy!

 

I've taken you advice and withdrawn from the sessions - happily I hadn't paid or attended any. Is Qi gong tai chi? I played the video - the music was so soothing, I could listen too it even if I didn't do anything.... I realise that's what my poor body needs - soothing calmness - instead I get children fighting which sets my nerves on high alert.

 

We also live on a very busy main road - the first year was dire, now in year two we have got used to it somewhat but it's never peaceful, you can never hear nature - no birdsong and it limits My ability to be outside (even when I felt totally normal ;)) I realise I need quiet, desperately xxx

 

We also have 3 homestay students living with presently - they are 3 months into a 5 mth stay - and although they are actually pretty good, their presence in the household is more than I can bear right now - I want so desperately to be alone or with only my husband and children (and you treasures) the rest of the world is too much for me. I don't know what to do about this.

 

Despite crying myself to sleep most of the previous week from back pain, I do feel some slow improvement so hurray for that!!!!

 

I mentioned it in KarenB's journal, but has anyone else made big life changes while going through WD? Do you regret them? I'd love to hear from you xxx

 

I am aching to move fromAuckland to a much smaller town (I've always lived in the city - but feel more like a small town person on the inside) I've wanted to do this for a long while but a move like this may have extremely significant repercussions for children and I. So I've never been brave enough - but now, I feel I have lost so much I have so much less to lose.

 

Drug history

  • 20mg paxil in 2001 - 4 months use  
  • 20mg paxil in 2003 - 2 months use 
  • 20mg paxil in 2008 - 8 years continuous

Withdrawal history:

  • March 2014 - disastrous alternate day taper
  • Jan 2015 - 15mg to 10mg. Disaster
  • Sept 2015 -  10mg to 5mg. Disaster. Reinstated to 6mg. Relief
  • Oct 2015 - started slow 10% taper 
  • Oct 2016 - at 4mg- stop taking paxil (not recommended)

 

I'm not a medical professional. Seek advice from a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

I like the sound of a small town - as long as I can get to the health practitioners I might need (including acupuncture) and don't have to be too organized.  Living remotely, with those infrequent loooong trips to town where you try to get everything done because you're not going again for a couple of weeks - that's no longer for me!

 

Glad you liked the music of the Qi Gong.  I like the setting, too.  Qi Gong is the medicinal art behind the martial art, Tai Chi.  You cannot fight with Qi Gong, but you can heal with Tai Chi, because it has it's root in Qi Gong.  There, clear as mud?

 

Speaking of mud, I've been thinking about Rotorua lately.  I'd love to just sink my whole body into a bathtub full of that rich, cleansing mud!

 

Where would you like to move?  Just about anywhere in NZ is heavenly!

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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Lolollol well that's my first laugh of the day thanks !!! "You cannot fight with Qi gong, but you can heal with tai chi, because it has its root in Qi gong" this student has A LOT to learn before this makes sense :D

 

I'd like to move to Gisborne - East Cape, wide open surf beaches, wineries, creative folks, just enough good coffee but where I could wear my track suit pants into town and not feel like a freak - and the house prices ... we could afford a nice little house with a garden - oh I dream of a garden and not drown in debt or have to live with a bunch of strangers to make ends meet - and the weather - it's lovely xxxx not as hot as Brisbane though :)

 

Drug history

  • 20mg paxil in 2001 - 4 months use  
  • 20mg paxil in 2003 - 2 months use 
  • 20mg paxil in 2008 - 8 years continuous

Withdrawal history:

  • March 2014 - disastrous alternate day taper
  • Jan 2015 - 15mg to 10mg. Disaster
  • Sept 2015 -  10mg to 5mg. Disaster. Reinstated to 6mg. Relief
  • Oct 2015 - started slow 10% taper 
  • Oct 2016 - at 4mg- stop taking paxil (not recommended)

 

I'm not a medical professional. Seek advice from a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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Day 1: 14 Sept 2015

7 mins qi gong

10 mins yoga (this is an absolute beginners: inflexible/sore everywhere/can barely get onto or off the floor segment)

 

How I feel:

relaxed, refreshed, tearful at the hope I feel and sad at the years I've missed. Wondering if I can still be 'me' while becoming a calmer less frenetic person?

$$ cost: $0

 

First day reinstatement of 1ml = 5ml increase to 6ml.

 

Drug history

  • 20mg paxil in 2001 - 4 months use  
  • 20mg paxil in 2003 - 2 months use 
  • 20mg paxil in 2008 - 8 years continuous

Withdrawal history:

  • March 2014 - disastrous alternate day taper
  • Jan 2015 - 15mg to 10mg. Disaster
  • Sept 2015 -  10mg to 5mg. Disaster. Reinstated to 6mg. Relief
  • Oct 2015 - started slow 10% taper 
  • Oct 2016 - at 4mg- stop taking paxil (not recommended)

 

I'm not a medical professional. Seek advice from a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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Well (fingers crossed this isn't temporary) the updosde from 5ml to 6ml has been extremely successful. Within 3 hours of the extra 1ml, the intense anger weight had lifted from from brain and I felt calm, and ok. Incredible. Today again, feeling far far far better xxx

 

Drug history

  • 20mg paxil in 2001 - 4 months use  
  • 20mg paxil in 2003 - 2 months use 
  • 20mg paxil in 2008 - 8 years continuous

Withdrawal history:

  • March 2014 - disastrous alternate day taper
  • Jan 2015 - 15mg to 10mg. Disaster
  • Sept 2015 -  10mg to 5mg. Disaster. Reinstated to 6mg. Relief
  • Oct 2015 - started slow 10% taper 
  • Oct 2016 - at 4mg- stop taking paxil (not recommended)

 

I'm not a medical professional. Seek advice from a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Molly those are two really encouraging posts - I'm so glad for you.  I might have a try of that yoga/qi gong too.  I'm actually feeling well enough to go to yoga class tonight.  It's a lovely gentle yoga class, and the teacher knows my situation so I can just pop into child's pose anytime without people wondering. 

 

Hope things stay good for you,

Hugs,

Karen

2010  Fluoxetine 20mg.  2011  Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS.  Effexor 150mg. 

2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants.  Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. 

Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms).

8 month hold.

2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent).

2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.

2023 Now on 7 micro-beads of Effexor. Minimal symptoms but much more time needed between drops.

 'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

LOL you're in better shape than me, Karen!  Child's pose - or any pose which has my knee bent tighter than 90 degrees while bearing my substantial weight - is a challenge for me!

 

I'm glad you liked the little Qi Gong and yoga - there's tons of that stuff on the web.  Hooray for YouTube (now if only it came with a remote, so I could pause while I rest in a position or try to figure out what I'm doing!)

 

Thanks for posting on my thread, Molly - good to meet you, too!

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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Morning folks xxx

Still doing Most Moderate Yoga Ever daily along with Lee Holden's qi gong (20 mins) - this guy is rockin it with his stroking of the tiger and returning to the mountain - love it!!

 

<SIGH> went to see a naturopath while in Raglan (home of our very own Karen) and found myself rabbiting on to the naturopath about wd and dangers and effects of ssris etc, and was dismayed to see the wary look in her eye and the 'ohhh treat this one gently since she is clearly a little unstable' manner :( sigh. I really have to keep my views to myself - even though I thought I was being really really gentle and self depreciating  about it all. SIGH

 

Had my hair dyed. Definitely self love in doing this for me!

 

Still no meditation and/or mindfulness practice for me - I have to find time for this and stop the excuses. I do find focusing on breathing helpful when my mind runs back to the past to play out abuse situations endlessly. Didn't even realised I did this until I tried to stop it! xxx happy day to you all xxx

 

Drug history

  • 20mg paxil in 2001 - 4 months use  
  • 20mg paxil in 2003 - 2 months use 
  • 20mg paxil in 2008 - 8 years continuous

Withdrawal history:

  • March 2014 - disastrous alternate day taper
  • Jan 2015 - 15mg to 10mg. Disaster
  • Sept 2015 -  10mg to 5mg. Disaster. Reinstated to 6mg. Relief
  • Oct 2015 - started slow 10% taper 
  • Oct 2016 - at 4mg- stop taking paxil (not recommended)

 

I'm not a medical professional. Seek advice from a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

Hey Molly, it sounds like you are taking charge of your feelings!  This is an awesome position to be in while you stabilise.  And you begin to get a feel for how a slow taper leaves you in charge of your symptoms?

 

I have to give credit where credit is due - while I own a couple of the DVD's of Lee Holden, the ONLY reason I found him is by our own SA Master (well, I think so, anyway) freespirit

 

I had done Qi Gung previously in relationship to my Tai Chi practice (wayyy back in the 90's!) - but had not done the pure Qi Gung before I read freespirit's thread.  And what a gift it was, eh?

 

Breathe deeply, and I hope you see the sun today!

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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Big thanks to freespirit too!!

 

Here it's not so great, I even entertained the idea of updosing to 7mg from current 6mg. I miss my old self. I miss feeling light hearted and happy. Nowadays I am more an eeyore, with a side helping of hot blistering temper.

 

Sheesh. It's really not much fun all this is it. A wave I suppose, although it doesn't feel like a wave - I love the sea and find the water soothing, this feels more like grey heavy ash has settled all over my emotions and world view.

 

I don't even fancy my husband much currently and I'm always madly deeply in love with him.

 

love to you all xxxx molly

 

Drug history

  • 20mg paxil in 2001 - 4 months use  
  • 20mg paxil in 2003 - 2 months use 
  • 20mg paxil in 2008 - 8 years continuous

Withdrawal history:

  • March 2014 - disastrous alternate day taper
  • Jan 2015 - 15mg to 10mg. Disaster
  • Sept 2015 -  10mg to 5mg. Disaster. Reinstated to 6mg. Relief
  • Oct 2015 - started slow 10% taper 
  • Oct 2016 - at 4mg- stop taking paxil (not recommended)

 

I'm not a medical professional. Seek advice from a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus

Could be a wave, or you could still be settling after your changes in Sept and October.  Either way it's not nice.  Probably just need to settle for a good while, and those lighter feelings will come back. 

 

Do you get any breaks from your children?  On days when mine are off somewhere I can go all day without blowing my top ... makes me feel quite together :blink:.

 

Sending hugs to you Molly,

Karen

2010  Fluoxetine 20mg.  2011  Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS.  Effexor 150mg. 

2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants.  Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. 

Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms).

8 month hold.

2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent).

2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.

2023 Now on 7 micro-beads of Effexor. Minimal symptoms but much more time needed between drops.

 'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.

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Thanks Karen honey, you're such a darling xxxxxx Yep it's definitely the huge drop I did from 10mg to 5 then up to 6 which has wrecked me for now. Arrgghhhh why why why did I do it?!??!!!!

 

4/5 of the kids are in shared care - week about, so there is a break however Mr 3 is here permanently but has started kindy yay xxx

 

Question for SA friends: Is it worth looking at AA or NA do you think for help and support? I've kind of made a bit of a stuff up of life, I wonder if this would help or should I just look for healing inside myself? I like the spiritual side of it and I also like the idea of apologising to people you've hurt bit (see below) also I find 'broken' people like me very comforting.

 

However on the other side, I wonder if they'll all just stop drinking/drugs and dance off into the sunset and I'll be struggling along with my withdrawal?

 (I did read a thread where the poster didn't find going to NA very helpful since they felt the drug users had chosen their part while we hadn't. I don't think I feel that way really, I suppose I think we're all just trying to get through life best we can and different options come up for different folks - but perhaps the people at AA are encouraged to feel guilty and sorry about turning to drugs/alcohol - but maybe it's more about taking responsibility? I reckon I could align that with my experience)

 

 

I just posted in dolphin's journal and thought I'd post it here.. outlines some of the embarrassing truths about my life and how I do here in the first place.

 

Start quote:

Hi Bruce  :)

 

You've shared a glimpse into your being - what a blessing for the rest of us struggling our way through.

 

You've had so many wonderful people share with you here and they are all speaking truth to you xxx

 

I thought I'd tell you what life was like for me prior to antidepressants and why I wanted to come off them. I was raised as an only child by a single mum who no doubt loved me a very great deal and sacrificed a great deal as well for me, but also had all the symptoms (if not the diagnosis) of borderline personality disorder (whatever that is?!) but her mother, sisters, co workers have separately attested to it - as a child how could you possibly know what 'normal healthy' is aside from life with your one parent.

 

It was an emotionally very unhealthy relationship between the two of us, very insular and overwhelming for a child.

 

At 16 yrs as I started to assert some thoughts of my own, I was told to leave the house and that was that really in terms of family. So now I'm 42 and have been 'alone' all this time. The repercussions of this ultimate rejection and lack of family has echoed through my entire life.

 

Some (not so charming examples)  Many good and wonderful people have come into my life, but I would ultimately reject them all, unable to see how they could love me when I suppose I had been shown to be so unlovable.

 

This one is such a bummer and even today I do it. Presently in fact, I've chosen to have no friends at all (and with no family, man you need friends!) because I've pushed them all away terribly. I can't seem to cope with or accept the 'pressure' of their love and have the belief that I will be rejected ultimately, so best get in first.

 

I chose an abusive, severely emotionally disturbed man to have 4 children with. Yep that hasn't ended well. 

 

On the happier end of the scale, I was born with a sunny and positive personality, this served me very well for decades. However it's taken such a beating that I no longer experience it except for glimpses now - I entirely resonated with your line "I'm pretty desparate to feel alive again and have some peace and joy in my life. And love also."

 

I have a wonderful husband, however withdrawal is sucking the life out of my heart and ability to love him and I get a nasty suspicion I am starting to reject him too (before he rejects me - which of course my subconscious says is inevitable.

 

I was put on ADs because I was a mum with an abusive partner and raising little children without a hint of support. So, yeah that'd make most people struggle I reckon, certainly drugs weren't the answer, but what else was the doctor to do I suppose? Come round to my house each day and support me physically, love me like a mother should to fill the gap in my heart? Help me escape a violent partner by picking the children and I up and finding us a house and money? (actually in the end a psych who was engaged to help the children since their father was in and out of a psychiatric hospital) did in fact ring Women's Refuge and we did get picked up and escaped - huge thanks to her!!)

 

So there you go, I reckon your honesty deserved a response that was equally nitty gritty  :) So I definitely have 'issues'  :) and they would be there whether or not I was using ADs, and those issues will be there after withdrawal, but man alive the effect of these drugs in horrendous. I'm shocked daily by the ravages of them to my mind, and it's only the deep 'knowing' that they are just not ok that stops me from running back to the doctor and asking for drug based relief.

 

I'm envious of you having a job Bruce - all power to you!! I seem to be too lazy and entirely unmotivated to stick at anything. Hate this part of myself... a terrific starter, an entirely awful finisher! xxxx love to you (I think you sound like a terrific person)

 

End quote.

 

Drug history

  • 20mg paxil in 2001 - 4 months use  
  • 20mg paxil in 2003 - 2 months use 
  • 20mg paxil in 2008 - 8 years continuous

Withdrawal history:

  • March 2014 - disastrous alternate day taper
  • Jan 2015 - 15mg to 10mg. Disaster
  • Sept 2015 -  10mg to 5mg. Disaster. Reinstated to 6mg. Relief
  • Oct 2015 - started slow 10% taper 
  • Oct 2016 - at 4mg- stop taking paxil (not recommended)

 

I'm not a medical professional. Seek advice from a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Molly,

 

What a lovely, strong and insightful lady you are!  I am so sorry that you had so many issues to deal with in your childhood - i too had many issues that have shaped and scarred me.  And, like you i am now having to deal with being on antidepressants and struggling to get off.

 

I can so relate to that horrible feeling of 'why did i make that drop' - i have done it 3 or 4 times - thinking that surely i will be ok - but mine hasn't been in one go - it has been little drops too quickly - i get a cumulative kick in the bum.  Most times i have updosed well over what i probably needed to but i just didn't have the strength to limp along with anxiety and depression at that level. I can cope with mild anxiety/depression, but when it is raging I just can't do it anymore - have done it so many times and i think i almost have PTSD from my very severe depressions that were unmedicated - they went on and on - finally came out of them with fine, but they took 8 or 9 months.  And as you know with small children it's difficult to function as a parent (and I didn't want to give my children the same issues my mother gave me)

 

I have restarted a meditation practise - i have no hope in the world unless i do a guided meditation - i feel so much better immediately after.

 

Best wishes and thanks for sharing

Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Molly, it is such a priveledge to be able to read about the harder things in your life - you are so brave to share with us.  Even with all the trauma in your life you've clearly been taking healing steps along the way too, so you're in a better position today than you might have been - such as with your new husband and family.  And the fact that you're really taking stock of things, that will move you along too.  

 

I hope you don't mind, since you didn't ask for thoughts on any of this, but I want to say do whatever you can to keep a good relationship with your husband.  The reason is that if there's one thing that can heal us, it is relationships.  Connections to others.  So fight for it - you deserve to be in a loving, supportive relationship, and you deserve to keep healing.  Try to build up the good things that are happening between you, even if they're only small, and try to notice and phase out the bad stuff as it comes up.

 

I really admire you Molly, you have such strength, getting through all this.  And you do have some friends (even if we are online).

 

Karen

x

2010  Fluoxetine 20mg.  2011  Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS.  Effexor 150mg. 

2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants.  Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. 

Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms).

8 month hold.

2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent).

2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.

2023 Now on 7 micro-beads of Effexor. Minimal symptoms but much more time needed between drops.

 'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.

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xxxxx Peggy and Karen xxxxx thank you - it really does mean so so much  xxxxx

 

I wish life wasn't so hard. I feel like the most fragile thinnest oldest glass. Just one slightly rough touch and I will shatter into a million pieces. I've taken to hiding in my bedroom. This can't be good. The 3 boarders are here all the time, I am desparate to be able to be alone in my own home. thank god thank god thank god they are leaving tomorrow afternoon thank god thank god thank god.

 

I've been off facebook for a year in my isolated mode, but very recently I started to venture back, but I think I'm too fragile xxx

 

I had a rare coffee with a friend yesterday and mentioned my struggles to withdraw - her reaction "WHY on earth are you going off them??!!!!" sigh

 

Drug history

  • 20mg paxil in 2001 - 4 months use  
  • 20mg paxil in 2003 - 2 months use 
  • 20mg paxil in 2008 - 8 years continuous

Withdrawal history:

  • March 2014 - disastrous alternate day taper
  • Jan 2015 - 15mg to 10mg. Disaster
  • Sept 2015 -  10mg to 5mg. Disaster. Reinstated to 6mg. Relief
  • Oct 2015 - started slow 10% taper 
  • Oct 2016 - at 4mg- stop taking paxil (not recommended)

 

I'm not a medical professional. Seek advice from a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

So tomorrow afternoon you will celebrate in all the rooms of your house!!  Wear pajamas, have a little cry in one room, a hysterical giggle in another room, do yoga in the kitchen, put your feet up on the couch... :P 

 

And you ain't made of glass Molly, you're made of diamonds.  That's why you've been able to get through everything so far, and why you'll continue to heal. 

 

Hugs for you,

Karen

 

P.S.  Sorry to hear about your clueless friend.  People just have no idea. 

2010  Fluoxetine 20mg.  2011  Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS.  Effexor 150mg. 

2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants.  Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. 

Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms).

8 month hold.

2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent).

2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.

2023 Now on 7 micro-beads of Effexor. Minimal symptoms but much more time needed between drops.

 'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.

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Oh!! that is such a great idea!! to reclaim every room in the house.... and to be able to as naked as I like or wear no bra! and I can have a BATH (the bath is in their bathroom) xxxx only 22 more hours!!!!!! thanks karen, you're truly an angel

 

will this get better?

 

Drug history

  • 20mg paxil in 2001 - 4 months use  
  • 20mg paxil in 2003 - 2 months use 
  • 20mg paxil in 2008 - 8 years continuous

Withdrawal history:

  • March 2014 - disastrous alternate day taper
  • Jan 2015 - 15mg to 10mg. Disaster
  • Sept 2015 -  10mg to 5mg. Disaster. Reinstated to 6mg. Relief
  • Oct 2015 - started slow 10% taper 
  • Oct 2016 - at 4mg- stop taking paxil (not recommended)

 

I'm not a medical professional. Seek advice from a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

How can it not get better?  That's the pathway you're tramping on - so it's the only option.  The worst that can happen is you sometimes fall back on your bum and have to re-tramp a few steps, but you're still on the healing path.   

2010  Fluoxetine 20mg.  2011  Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS.  Effexor 150mg. 

2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants.  Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. 

Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms).

8 month hold.

2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent).

2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.

2023 Now on 7 micro-beads of Effexor. Minimal symptoms but much more time needed between drops.

 'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.

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Righto, so tonight I'm going to try NA. I've read through the beginning of their literature in the basic text and they describe anyone can be a member who is unable to control their use of a mind altering or mood altering substance. Yep well, that's me. I'm pretty nervous, ok I'm very nervous. I'm going to a meeting way out in the suburbs in quite a poor area, it was the only one that was on at a reasonable time, so I've got all sorts of preconceptions about what it's going to be like, but mainly I want to see if they can help point me in the direction of recovery :)

 

Drug history

  • 20mg paxil in 2001 - 4 months use  
  • 20mg paxil in 2003 - 2 months use 
  • 20mg paxil in 2008 - 8 years continuous

Withdrawal history:

  • March 2014 - disastrous alternate day taper
  • Jan 2015 - 15mg to 10mg. Disaster
  • Sept 2015 -  10mg to 5mg. Disaster. Reinstated to 6mg. Relief
  • Oct 2015 - started slow 10% taper 
  • Oct 2016 - at 4mg- stop taking paxil (not recommended)

 

I'm not a medical professional. Seek advice from a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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I think I have far more questions than I had yesterday to be honest. I'd love some input from others, I'm not sure if anyone reads this, but I do feel quite confused.

I attended a NA meeting last night and then another today lunchtime. I was extremely nervous and burst into tears the minute I got to the door and wept off and on through the meetings.

 

Here are some of the feelings I had, I'd be so grateful if wise minds could help me unpack this:

 

I felt incredibly ashamed that I wasn't 'clean'. Certainly no-one made me feel that way but with so much emphasis on 'days/years clean', it was confronting and embarrassing to feel like the only person in the room with no control. 

 

I felt way too brittle to speak in front of the other people, additionally though, I felt that I would have to explain and perhaps justify myself that perhaps I don't have a 'real' drug problem.

Later I googled 'can a person withdrawing from antidepressants attend NA meetings?' I found an article 'Are People Who take Antidepressants really sober?' But since I have quite strong views on psychiatric medication, I felt sick reading that article where people are encouraged to take ssris to treat their depression. I want to scream from the rooftops - "don't take that medication!!!" . But am I wrong about this? Are psych drugs good for some' people?

 

What I am wanting to get out of NA is a way to live life into the future, I've read their literature and have come to the conclusion that from my point of view NA/AA it is just 'church for broken people' and that really appeals to me, since I want to connect with God and his people, but find that I feel too messy and broken compared to the shiny, happy, well adjusted folks with modest, clothing, language and habits that I meet in Church. 

 

I certainly feel broken enough to attend, but I don't know if the 'others' will see it that way. The meeting today was full of around 15 people, and many of them were just out of jail and in rehab or others about to start into treatment. I don't judge them at all, I just wish I could say 'I'm 1 day clean'.

 

Any and all thoughts gratefully accepted xxx

 

Drug history

  • 20mg paxil in 2001 - 4 months use  
  • 20mg paxil in 2003 - 2 months use 
  • 20mg paxil in 2008 - 8 years continuous

Withdrawal history:

  • March 2014 - disastrous alternate day taper
  • Jan 2015 - 15mg to 10mg. Disaster
  • Sept 2015 -  10mg to 5mg. Disaster. Reinstated to 6mg. Relief
  • Oct 2015 - started slow 10% taper 
  • Oct 2016 - at 4mg- stop taking paxil (not recommended)

 

I'm not a medical professional. Seek advice from a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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Hi Molly,

 

We're almost neighbours. Waving at you from Australia.   :)

 

When you say you're not " clean", I can only assume that you mean , the 6mg Paxil , you are still on. I  certainly wouldn't say because you're tapering off an SSRI antidepressant, that you are the only person in the room with no control. I think you are being way too tough on yourself !   The " shiny, happy, well adjusted folks ", probably have " skeletons" in their closet, as well !  If I were you, I would go and hold your head up, and not let them make you feel " less than " your authentic self.

 

If this is what you want to do, then do it !  Don't worry, what others are thinking . What other people think of you is none of your business !!  ( although , there is no shame that I can see.)

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Ali.

Many SSRI's and SSNRI's over 20 years. Zoloft for 7 years followed by Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and more - on and off. No tapering. Cold turkey off Valdoxan - end of May 2014

 

                                                  Psych Drug - free since May 2014
.
         

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Thanks so much Ali! xxx You're right shame isn't a healthy response, thanks for making me think about this xxx

 

Something I did today was looking up withdrawal from street drugs and methadone... so many of the symptoms are the same as those we are/have suffered. In many instances they suggest people withdraw in treatment centres, I wonder, I wonder had I had different expectations of withdrawal and had known to treat it like these 'serious' drugs, would that have changed my experience? At the very least I wouldn't have been surprised!

 

Drug history

  • 20mg paxil in 2001 - 4 months use  
  • 20mg paxil in 2003 - 2 months use 
  • 20mg paxil in 2008 - 8 years continuous

Withdrawal history:

  • March 2014 - disastrous alternate day taper
  • Jan 2015 - 15mg to 10mg. Disaster
  • Sept 2015 -  10mg to 5mg. Disaster. Reinstated to 6mg. Relief
  • Oct 2015 - started slow 10% taper 
  • Oct 2016 - at 4mg- stop taking paxil (not recommended)

 

I'm not a medical professional. Seek advice from a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hey Molly,

 

I think the crying you did there will have been healing for you, and perhaps it was also tears of relief that you recognise your need for good care.

 

Each of those people there will have sat at their first meeting and been unable to claim any 'days clean.'  Plus, 'clean' is just a short-hand so everyone can place where they are in their healing.  If you went 'clean' right now that would equate to cold-turkey.  But you have started your healing Molly - how many days are you now in that?  (And within that, you certainly have exercised control and restraint though some very painful times of w/d).  

 

I don't believe psych drugs are good for 'some' people.  Have you read 'Anatomy of an Epidemic'?  It would do a lot for you about understanding the situation you are in now.  It says every study/research ever done shows the best outcomes are had by those who never take psych drugs, followed by shortest length of use and so on.  It shows how once on psych drugs, outcomes worsen as people start to 'cycle' in and out of treatment centers, and are given more 'diagnoses' and therefore more meds.  

 

I think it's a really good thing you are looking for ways to make connections with others.  Perhaps the best way to find out if people would welcome someone in your situation is to ring the person who organises the group.  Maybe one-to-one on the phone you can more anonymously outline your situation and see what they think.

 

Then maybe sit with it for a while, see how it seems in a few days.  And if it's not the best fit for what you need right now, well, you'll still be on your healing path, and who knows what will come along for you?

 

Hugs,

Karen   

2010  Fluoxetine 20mg.  2011  Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS.  Effexor 150mg. 

2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants.  Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. 

Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms).

8 month hold.

2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent).

2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.

2023 Now on 7 micro-beads of Effexor. Minimal symptoms but much more time needed between drops.

 'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.

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  • Moderator

Hi Molly-- I found that people in NA/AA have even less knowledge of psych drugs than doctors do.  WD from alcohol or narcotics is a whole different ballgame from what we are going through, but to them a drug is a drug, you're either on it or you're off of it.  The idea of a slow taper is totally foreign to them.  Then there's the whole thing about relapsing.  I found the tools and teachings of AA very helpful, but the people very judgmental and shallow.

 

When it comes to being "clean" or "sober" the most common definition I heard was "not taking any mind altering substances", frequently espoused by someone holding a cup of coffee and a cigarette. I finally decided that they had no idea about my situation and there for their opinions on it had no validity.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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Thanks Brass, I'm so sad to hear it wasn't a goer for you, that's definitely my fear that they'll not let me join them since I don't fit the junky mould. But even just reading the basic text, they have stories of people taking prescribed meds that got their life back on track - so here's hoping. Can you tell me about the differences between a withdrawal from psych meds and narcotics?

 

I wonder about the compulsion and obsession that addicts of narcotics have in relation to my situation.  With my drug and that there isn't really a 'high' as such, but I certainly think about it all the time and I ache for the times when I felt stable and happy on the 20mgs. Sure I don't steal or sell myself to get paxil, although if I suddenly couldn't get any from a doctor - I would do both those things to not have to go CT. So although I don't choose it, I sure can't live without it just now. I also know that in the future when life gets tough that unless I develop some pretty awesome coping skills I will be desparate to take it again to feel ok. I'm hoping NA can teach me that. I surely can't do it myself and I don't have much trouble with the idea of God and I definitely am sick of trying to live life on my own terms - again I've been crap at it!

 

Thank you 1000x times for explaining the drugs in such exceptional terms. This is exactly how I feel, but you've provided me with the words to explain it without sounding like a mad women (obviously a great fear! - I'm on psych drugs after all ;)) I will read the book!

 

Off to another meeting tonight. xxx

 

Drug history

  • 20mg paxil in 2001 - 4 months use  
  • 20mg paxil in 2003 - 2 months use 
  • 20mg paxil in 2008 - 8 years continuous

Withdrawal history:

  • March 2014 - disastrous alternate day taper
  • Jan 2015 - 15mg to 10mg. Disaster
  • Sept 2015 -  10mg to 5mg. Disaster. Reinstated to 6mg. Relief
  • Oct 2015 - started slow 10% taper 
  • Oct 2016 - at 4mg- stop taking paxil (not recommended)

 

I'm not a medical professional. Seek advice from a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Dear Molly,

We are all broken people - maybe the difference is that some people have more insight into their own brokenness.  

 

I used to struggle a lot with people at my yoga studio - i find many people there are very shiny (to use your words) - they are righteous in their yoga practice and their whole food diet - sometimes when i have been fragile after a too rapid reduction (because I am a much slower learner than you) I feel like a fraud going to yoga all these years, but that is just the withdrawal talking.

 

The compulsion to use (the drug) that drives an addiction is sort of the hang up that stops Dr's accepting that antidepressants are addictive.  When you become addicted to opiates your opiod receptors become upregulated - so that you need more and more of the drug to feel normal. When someone goes onto a methadone program to come off heroin, rather than stopping cold turkey they are reduced slowly over a long period of time, so that their bodies adapt slowly to the lower dose.  They will get some withdrawal at every reduction, but much less than if they just stop cold turkey.  It must be wound in with the dopamine reward system to make it so 'addictive'.   When we start antidepressants we don't  get an instantaneous reward - only the negative side effects - so i don't think you will necessarily run to take them if you start feeling bad again.

 

We all need to learn better coping skills - the fact that we are taking these drugs usually means that at some point most of us were in a situation where we needed help - if we don't try to address those issues then when we get off the drugs the same issues are likely still to be there.

Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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  • Moderator

Hi Molly-- Many of the AA people go wrong because they only accept the parts of the "Big Book" that they think are relevant to their way of thinking, and can quote chapter and verse to back up their position.  If they actually read everything they would find that alcohol is the only banned item and it is encouraged for people to continue on their prescribed medication in the prescribed manner to maintain their mental and physical health.  So it is okay to take a pill for a headache or use mouthwash even if it has alcohol in it (just so you don't swallow).  But to force the lifestyle change they have to  over compensate and to justify it in themselves they feel the need to force it onto others.  AA/NA really is all about a total lifestyle change, and the "Big Book" spells it out in detail,  The ones who are successful are the ones who can adopt the life style and mold it to themselves, while the ones who try to wear parts of it like a glove still struggle after many years.

 

I actually attended AA meetings for a year and got a lot out of it.  Then I switched to DDA (dual diagnosis anon a sanctioned offshoot of AA) which is for alcoholics that are also dealing with psych issues and medications.  They were in love with their psych drugs and didn't want to hear about what was going to happen to them after a few years on them.

 

Narcotics and psych drugs (ssri, snri) are two totally different beasts.  They both play with the brain, but that is about all they have in common.  Narcotics affect the pleasure centers of the brain and make you feel euphoric or high.  While psych drugs (ssri, snri) it is believed (no one really knows how they work, even the guys that make them) play with the levels of neurotransmitters and block you from feeling anything.  Narcotics are addicting because the brain craves pleasure, while psych drugs are "addicting" (for want of a better word, they don't really fit the definition, but it's what we have to work with) because they make physical changes to the structure of the brain to control the neurotransmitters.  Remove the narcotics and the brain screams "hey, give that back we want to feel good again".  Remove the psych drug and the brain screams "hey, we can't function properly with out that, because you changed us".  That's the basic difference as I understand it.

 

Boss is paging me so gotta run.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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Thanks Peggy thanks Brass, thanks Karen -  I read your posts really closely and thank you SO MUCH (if I was with you I'd be able to express fully how grateful I am and you'd understand :)

 

Last night fairly much played out like you suggested it might Brass. At one stage I wanted to run run run to get away but instead sat there listening and feeling like I wanted to be sick (100% I need to work on boundary issues!!!!!!!!!)

 

Can I describe it to you? This meeting was quite full maybe 40 people, although apparently it was relatively empty compared to most meetings there. Unlike the second daytime meeting I went to there were many people who hadn't used drugs for 10 plus years and had been 'working the programme'. I love hearing the stories, the literature is positive and I identify with it fully.

 

A lovely lady welcomes me and hugs me as I come in since the minute I walk into a meeting I'm in tears and can't stop crying on and off (mostly on the entire way through) and at the end she invites me to join them at the local cafe. I really didn't want to, but she seemed so lovely and I know that a huge part of the success of the programme is community, so I tootle along.

 

Unfortunately most of the folks from that 'home group' have a quick meeting regarding a finance issue, so I join another new comer at the cafe alone. The next bit is going to sound judgmental .... we start chatting, she talks very loudly about her AA meetings, her OA (overeaters anonymous ((caused by prescription meds)) meetings and her meth and psychiatric drug use. I think, oh good on you for getting help etc etc.. 

 

The conversation turns to me, after I describe my situation she goes into a half hour talk at me about how "you just probably need your meds, I'm not stable without mine.. you should follow your psychiatrist's advice... oh I can't stop mine I've tried sooo many times, I just know I need them. I really don't think you should stop, why can't you just stay on them - you obviously need them"  and on. and on. and on.

 

Because of my experience here and my own experience I tried to state my position lovingly (all with 'I' statements etc etc blah blah) nothing - she just thinks I'm mad and misguided I guess.

 

She leaves and I'm free to go and join the lovely lady and another chap who is sitting outside. I'm asked about my situation and exactly the same thing happens again. This man goes into a long history of his psychiatric drug use to control his OCD, his bipolar, depression and other problems, he describes seeing his psychiatrist every 3 weeks and how he has been medicated since he was 13 years old. He also is adamant that my 'psych' knows best and that I shouldn't be withdrawing - they help him he claims, that help me he claims.

 

By this stage, I'm mortified - I want to do something mad like throw my herbal tea all over him (they all drink double strength coffee at 9pm - dudes?!!!). I try and state my position, that these drugs are doing me harm. That I was prescribed them for normal grief and stress. That the way I've withdrawn from them has destabilised me and I am now not in a good space. His response I kid you not "well you have a chemical imbalance.."

 

So I speak to 3 people, 2 of them tell me that I shouldn't be withdrawing at all. How dare they. I would never ever tell them to continue taking their drugs (of whatever type). I wanted to ask them if their decades of polydrugging might have exacebated their conditions? Well in fact I hinted at whether they thought the changes of drugs they'd had (as in "oh yeah I had no trouble withdrawing, the doctor just prescribed a new one and I was switched over... oh and what about this one? I really recommend you try this one..." arrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhh

 

This is really hard. I got home and spoke to my husband (who I miss btw since I've been out each evening!). Did I mention he has a long history with NA through his ex wife and her mother who is a 'guru' of NA (adds whole extra layers of stress for me that I might see her).

 

He said 'look there are plenty of *** (rude word)  at NA, you just have to sort through them to find the gems'. I have got to the stage where I would like to share in a meeting and at that stage take the opportunatey to head people off at the chase by telling them how I know they might be triggered if they are taking psych meds, but that these are doing me harm etc etc etc... unfortunately, since I am still 'using' I'm not allowed to share.

 

Is it worth it? I don't know, I'm bruised from last night, but I'll give it a bit more of a shot. Maybe I need to make up a short history of more exciting drug use "oh yeah well I was shooting up once a day - til I really felt I needed to kick the habit" there! are you happy now??! 

 

Sorry for the long rant. Thank you so much for being fabulous. For being honest, informed and knowledgeable. I wish I could take you all with me. It's almost impossible for me to act as a lone dissenting voice.

 

Drug history

  • 20mg paxil in 2001 - 4 months use  
  • 20mg paxil in 2003 - 2 months use 
  • 20mg paxil in 2008 - 8 years continuous

Withdrawal history:

  • March 2014 - disastrous alternate day taper
  • Jan 2015 - 15mg to 10mg. Disaster
  • Sept 2015 -  10mg to 5mg. Disaster. Reinstated to 6mg. Relief
  • Oct 2015 - started slow 10% taper 
  • Oct 2016 - at 4mg- stop taking paxil (not recommended)

 

I'm not a medical professional. Seek advice from a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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I'm sorry to hear that it went so badly.  I ended up being the quiet guy who sat in the corner and didn't talk much.  DH id right, there are a lot of jerks at these meetings, their personalities have a lot to do with why they're there.  I don't know about gems, but there could be a few shiny stones (pardon the pun) in the group.  I found the groups to be very cliquish so I held back meeting people until I had been to several meetings and could start to see past the facades. Even then I'm such a different type of person than they were that everything stayed on a very superficial level.  Listening to the stories and seeing how they coped with different situations was the biggest learning part for me.  Sharing on my part didn't seem to be that important.

 

(((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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Wow MollyN what interesting experiences you are having.

People just dont get it do they and i found it very despairing as the white coated religion seems to be beyond questioning.

 

I mentioned it in KarenB's journal, but has anyone else made big life changes while going through WD? Do you regret them? I'd love to hear from you.

I think that part of wdl is manic type manifestations. The brain is in chaos.

Erratic impulsive behavior can occur ..resulting in decision making that may in hindsight be regretted.

 

In wdl i would refrain from making any big life changes. imo

 

Hope you stabilize on the 6mg soon. No more drops of 50% ok.

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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oh God nz11 - do I sound manic and erratic - oh man alive. It's all so mortifying. Thanks for being brave and mentioning it xxxx

 

Drug history

  • 20mg paxil in 2001 - 4 months use  
  • 20mg paxil in 2003 - 2 months use 
  • 20mg paxil in 2008 - 8 years continuous

Withdrawal history:

  • March 2014 - disastrous alternate day taper
  • Jan 2015 - 15mg to 10mg. Disaster
  • Sept 2015 -  10mg to 5mg. Disaster. Reinstated to 6mg. Relief
  • Oct 2015 - started slow 10% taper 
  • Oct 2016 - at 4mg- stop taking paxil (not recommended)

 

I'm not a medical professional. Seek advice from a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

Link to comment

I'm not saying you are manic or erratic im just saying you are in withdrawal and the brain is in a mess.

 

Here is what Shipko says in his book 'informed consent'

 

Often it’s only with hindsight and insight one becomes aware of this. Shipko explains,

“Mania is characterized by abnormally elevated or irritable mood and energy level. In this state patients are often impulsive and more likely to engage in dangerous or foolish behaviors and may believe that these activities will have no negative consequences. Patients may make poor business decisions, engage in wasteful, extravagant spending, promiscuity or intense arguments. In the extreme, mania leads to hallucinations and psychosis. In the manic state patients can rapidly ruin their lives, engaging in criminal behaviors, sexual promiscuity or spending all of their money foolishly.”

 

Shipko is spot on here.

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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  • Moderator

I thought you were regretting your move to Eek-a-tuna. LOL 

 

But yea, during WD is no time to be making big life changes, or really trying to do more that maintain the status quo.  There hasn't been much talk about it here, but back at Prior Place it came up every once in a while.  The ol' brain, while in WD, just can't see all the ramifications of a big change, and with ones defenses down wrong decisions are more than likely.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

Link to comment

Eek a tuna lololloll that's funny :D

 

Drug history

  • 20mg paxil in 2001 - 4 months use  
  • 20mg paxil in 2003 - 2 months use 
  • 20mg paxil in 2008 - 8 years continuous

Withdrawal history:

  • March 2014 - disastrous alternate day taper
  • Jan 2015 - 15mg to 10mg. Disaster
  • Sept 2015 -  10mg to 5mg. Disaster. Reinstated to 6mg. Relief
  • Oct 2015 - started slow 10% taper 
  • Oct 2016 - at 4mg- stop taking paxil (not recommended)

 

I'm not a medical professional. Seek advice from a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

Link to comment

lol ...just got the joke....good one.

 

Hey Molly thanks for contacting the aussie lawyers..

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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