jbone67: Need help relapse or withdrawal?

[jbone67]

I had been treated with a low dose of generic Prozac for 12 years, including during two pregnancies.  It seemed to stop being effective in late 2012.

 

Over the last year, I have had a bunch of new drugs thrown my way by an unscrupulous doctor and not really been happy with any of them.  The doctor I was seeing just kept raising the doses until I became suicidal.

 

I changed doctors and the new one put me on a low dose of Lexapro which seemed fine until I started gaining a lot of weight really fast.  I decided that I was going to go off the Lexapro and see if I could just clear my system and manage without.  I tapered from 15 to 10 to 5 to 2.5 and have been totally off for maybe 6 days.

 

I am not feeling well at all.  I feel vaguely nauseous, I am randomly dizzy, overheated, aggravated, hostile, emotional and just really weird.

 

I am snapping at everyone (my poor small kids) and seem unable to cope well with the normal stress levels (always high) but I have be able to manage it until this last week.

 

Is this going to go away?  Should I give up and go back on the Lexapro?  

 

I also use Lunesta for sleep

Synthroid for hypothroid

Lipitor for chloesterol

Didrex (for the last 3 months for weight loss)

 

Vitamin supplements.

 

PLEASE HELP ME!

 

Jennifer

Withdrawal or Releapse Lexapro!

[Petunia]

Welcome Jennifer,

 

Thank you for posting an introduction, I'm sorry you are feeling so unwell, it sounds like you are suffering withdrawal symptoms from tapering Lexapro too fast.  We recommend reducing by no more than 10% every 4 - 6 weeks.

 

You have only been off for 6 days, so its possible you could reinstate, stablize and start to feel better and then begin a slow, safe taper which would then reduce withdrawal symptoms as you come off your medication.

 

I stopped taking Lexapro too fast and have been in protracted withdrawal ever since.  By the time I found this web site and learned what was going on, it was too late for me to reinstate, but you don't have to go through this.

 

Please have a look through these links which will explain why we recommend a 10% taper, details about reinstatement and specific tips for tapering off Lexapro:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3079-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-stop-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/406-tips-for-tapering-off-lexapro-escitalopram/?hl=%2Btips+%2Bfor+%2Btapering+%2Blexapro

 

Don't take too long to decide, because the sooner you do it, the more likely it is to work.  We can help you decide how much to reinstate if you decide to try.

 

There are many members here who are slowly tapering off their medication with minimal symptoms, able to continue functioning in their lives, you can do it too.  There is a lot of friendly help and support here.

 

Petu.

[jbone67]

Petu,

 

Thank you for responding to my post.  I did not stay on the 2.5 dosage very long, maybe only 4 0r 5 days.  I felt since I wasn;t having any issues tapering coming through the lower dosages that perhaps I was going to be able to just CT at that point.  But the last week has been brutal.  Should I go back to the 2.5 dose?  Or should I just hang on and wait for these to clear since I think I am 7 days out now.  My record-keeping has been shoddy on this.  My taper plan was 10 days, 7 days and then another 7 days.  I think it has been just about a month total since I started 10 mg taper.

 

It was suggested to me to substitute ST. John's Wort for awhile to help alleviate the withdrawal symptoms from Lexapro.  Has anyone tried this?  Does it help?

[Skyler]

You have only been off for 6 days, so its possible you could reinstate, stabilize and start to feel better and then begin a slow, safe taper which would then reduce withdrawal symptoms as you come off your medication.

Hello, and welcome to the forum. The advice Petu gives above suggests reinstating. I agree with this and would think that going back on 2.5 mgs Lex. is advisable. WD symptoms can go on for weeks or months, and more. Better to taper conservatively and get off for good. Read the link she provided, stay at 2.5 mgs for long enough to restabilize, and develop a 10% of the previous dose plan with a month long hold before you start tapering again. You were doing well and will do same again.

 

Substituting St. John' Wort is not advisable... and it would not take the WD symptoms you have from Lexparo away. There are very few ADs that can be substituted because they all have different neuro footprints.

[bubble]

Dear Jennifer,

 

as somebody who has been in a very similar situation like you, I just want to reinforce the advice you got.

 

Lexapro is the reason I'm on this forum and the awful withdrawal was actually a blessing in disguise since it brought me here. 

 

When  I read what you wrote, I recognise the same way of thinking I had when I went off 5 mg of Lexapro to 2.5 mg and then after 2 weeks completely stopped taking it.

 

In response to your question of whether it will get better if you just tough it out, I can only say that for me it got worse until I experienced some of the worst agonies of my life: feeling like I was going completely insane, my thoughts were racing, I had out of body sensations, I felt I was going crazy. I waited for 40 days and it progressed from snappy to sheer horror.

 

It's been 5 months since I reinstated and I feel a lot better but nowhere near as good a I did before I stopped taking Lexapro and threw my brain off the cliff as Alto here says.

 

When you reinstate, you will notice how quickly you will feel a lot better. The sooner you reinstate, the better. The less will it take to stabilise and and start the proper taper  that will enable you to safely come off these things for good. It's not a defeat. It is a safe and painless way to get where you want to be.

 

I know you can't do much reading now but if you really want to understand the logic behind what we are saying there is a beautiful piece I just cant quote enough written by one of our members Rhi:

 

TAKE CARE!

 

A lot of people, including healthcare practitioners; in fact, I guess, most people-- are operating from entirely the wrong paradigm, or way of thinking, about these meds. They're thinking of them like aspirin--as something that has an effect when it's in your system, and then when it gets out of your system the effect goes away.

That's not what happens with medications that alter neurotransmitter function, we are learning.

What happens when you change the chemistry of the brain is, the brain adjusts its chemistry and structure to try to return to homeostasis, or biochemical and functional balance. It tries to restabilize the chemistry. 

For example: SSRI antidepressants work as "serotonin reuptake inhibitors." That is, they cause serotonin to remain in the space between neurons, rather than being taken back up into the cells to be re-used, like it would be in a normal healthy nondrugged brain.

So the brain, which wants to re-establish normal signaling and function, adapts to the higher level of serotonin between neurons (in the "synapse", the space between neurons where signals get passed along). It does this by removing serotonin receptors, so that the signal is reduced and changed to something closer to normal. It also decreases the amount of serotonin it produces overall. 

To do that, genes have to be turned on and off; new proteins have to be made; whole cascades of chemical reactions have to be changed, which means turning on and off OTHER genes; cells are destroyed, new cells are made; in other words, a complex physiologic remodeling takes place. This takes place over time. The brain does not grow and change rapidly. 

This is a vast oversimplification of the amount of adaptation that takes place in the brain when we change its normal chemistry, but that's the principle.

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay.

When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse.

SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. 

It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. 

I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long. 

With multiple drugs and a history of drug changes and cold turkeys, all of this becomes even more complicated. And if a person is started on these kinds of drugs at an early age before the brain has ever completely established normal mature functioning--well, it can't be good. (All of which is why I recommend an extremely slow taper particularly to anyone with a multiple drug history, a history of many years on meds, a history of past cold turkeys or frequent med changes, and a history of being put on drugs at a young age.)

This isn't intended to scare people, but hopefully to give you some idea of what's happening, and to help you respect and understand the process so you can work with it; ALSO, because you are likely to encounter many, many people who still believe these drugs work kind of like aspirin, or a glass of wine, and all you need to do is stop and get it out of your system. 

Now you can explain to them that no, getting it out of your system is not the issue; the issue is, you need to regrow or at least remodel your brain. This is a long, slow, very poorly understood process, and it needs to be respected. 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, jbone.

 

I can't improve on the fine advice you've been given.

 

How long have you taken and how often do you take Lunesta?

[jbone67]

I take Lunesta nightly, probably going on 2 years now, used to use Ambien but not regularly and after awhile it just wasn't working well.  Would fall asleep but not stay asleep.  Crazy med doctor had me on all kinds of things in addition to Lunesta (which is prescribed by my endo) but I weaned off everything and the Lunesta works well.  

 

I did take one St. John's Wort capsule today about 1 pm after a shaky morning and have actually felt a tiny bit better since.  Don't know if that's a placebo effect or the withdrawal symptoms are lessening on day 8 or it actually helped my brain adjust.

 

Psych wants me to come in for a 400.00 sit down to discuss after I left her a voice mail this AM telling her of my WD issues.  Apparently, she was not aware I was tapering off Lexapro (I had left her a message to inform her the day before I started, she did not personally return my call, instead her assistant called and said I should make an appointment to come in, which I never did) Today, her message said I should "absolutely" go back on and come in for appointment to discuss it.

 

I am feeling a bit like she is going to push me back on Lexapro.  I really don't want to go backwards.  

[bubble]

I'm sorry to read this because it seems you have ignored everything we have written. I actually wonder if you read anything we took so much time and effort to write.

 

But that is your decision. At this point this is as much as we could've done. 

[jbone67]

Dear Bubble,

 

I absolutely didn't ignore everything you and everyone else wrote.  I read every word and every link sent.  Why would you suggest otherwise?    I am taking a day or two to figure out the best decision for me and my brain.  Immediately throwing myself back on Lexapro and having no idea what dose to take didn't seem like a the best choice.  

 

I am hurt by the bullying tone in this uncalled for hostile post.

[Altostrata]

bubble dear, I think you misinterpreted jbone's post.

 

jbone, is this the psychiatrist who has prescribed all the drugs for you?

 

You might find a more compatible doctor here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/988-recommended-doctors-therapists-or-clinics/

 

In the meantime, please consider reinstating 2.5mg Lexapro right away, to stop the withdrawal symptoms. The liquid is most convenient, any doctor can prescribe it.

 

I am also worried about the Lunesta. It is a drug that is supposed to be taken only a short time. But first, I would get the SSRI situation resolved.

[jbone67]

This is not the same doctor that I had previously mentioned from 2012 that threw every drug she could think of at me, the ones I tried -- Cymbalta, Restoril, Strattera -- as well as Seroquel, Halcion, Celexa, Lorezapam which I refused to try as they didn't make sense for my issues.  My "current" doctor has only prescribed Lexapro.

 

I will look at the doctor/clinic list.

 

Interesting about the Lunesta, I see an endocrinologist for hypothyroid and she has prescribed Lunesta for the entire 2 year period and I see her every six weeks for thyroid.  I have no side effects at all.  Certainly, I feel as if I am dependent on it for sleep.

 

But, one drug at a time.  Thank you!

[Petunia]

In the meantime, please consider reinstating 2.5mg Lexapro right away, to stop the withdrawal symptoms. The liquid is most convenient, any doctor can prescribe it.

 

 

I just wanted to highlight this point, if you decide to reinstate and continue with a slower taper, you don't need to be seeing an expensive specialist, any cooperative doctor will be able to prescribe.

 

If you decide not to reinstate, please let us know, you are still welcome and we can provide help and support with any ongoing symptoms as you continue to recover.

[jbone67]

Question about reinstating for tapering - if the last dosage amount I was using was only 2.5 mg (1/4_ of a 10 mg pill) is that what I would re-instate to?  

 

Of if I am starting to feel (I think) a lessening of WD symptoms does that suggest I should just stay the course?  Can people survive the WD symptoms and begin healing?   Does a "successful" taper mean there are no WD symptoms?  I don't want to re-instate and have to go through another WD if I am on my way to the other side on this one.  Is like picking off a healing scab?

 

Or if I didn't properly taper the first time am I just going to have these WD symptoms come and go and perhaps I am just having a better day or two in a row?  

 

These brain altering chemicals have me feel as if I can't trust myself.

[Altostrata]

I would try 2.5mg. If it works, there's less to taper later.

 

If you're lucky, your withdrawal symptoms will go away completely.

 

It's safer to reinstate and taper slower than wait and see if withdrawal symptoms go away. Sometimes they last for months or years.

 

See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

[bubble]

Dear Bubble,

 

I absolutely didn't ignore everything you and everyone else wrote.  I read every word and every link sent.  Why would you suggest otherwise?    I am taking a day or two to figure out the best decision for me and my brain.  Immediately throwing myself back on Lexapro and having no idea what dose to take didn't seem like a the best choice.  

 

I am hurt by the bullying tone in this uncalled for hostile post.

 

Dear Jennifer,

 

I'm very sorry that I hurt you and I apologise profusely!

 

What I will say next doesn't free me from responsibility for my actions but that day I was in a very difficult state similar to what you described when you said:I am snapping at everyone (my poor small kids)

 

I had made 8 % cut on Xanax I'm taking a few days before and that day when I wrote to you I was hit by most awful irritabilty, anger, rage, fury, etc. some of which unfortunately  leaked into my post to you at the time when that was the least you needed.

 

Now I have learnt a very important lesson that I should absolutely steer clear of engaging with other people in such states because I can only cause harm.

 

We call these neuro-emotions and they are one of the most common symptoms of withdrawal. 

 

This is the link to where members wrote about what it means to them. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/137-neuro-emotion/

 

A small quote from the post there: For example, some situation might make you a bit angry under normal circumstances, but the neuro-anger is huge. This is when it's very difficult to 1) catch it in the first place and notice this is a neuro-emotion, 2) convince ourselves, yes, this is really a neuro-emotion, not a real emotion, 3) contain the emotion, try not to act on it, or channel the energy into something safe and constructive -- like exercise or journaling or building a birdhouse.

 

I had no intention to lash out at you but unfortunately my tone reflected the anger that I was fighting with and that actually had nothing to do with you or anyone. 

 

I hope my outburst will not deter you from seeking support in this forum which I have found extremely supportive and understanding of all the errors we make in states when our brains get badly messed up by drugs as well as very patient when we need the time to understand what is happening to us and realising that professionals can't help us and that we can't rely on them.

 

I'm very sorry once again and hope that you are doing better.

 

bubble

 

 

[Altostrata]

Thank you, bubble.