☼ arwen Fighting with anxiety

[arwen]

Thanks Petu, Alto. There is no liquid Paxil in Canada.

 

There are compound pharmacies that can mix the pills into liquid, but my doctor (a psychiatrist) didn't want to give me a prescription for it. It was like she didn't trust this kind of pharmacy. And also she cannot understand that you can withdraw from 1 mg. (I also didn't believe it until it hit me and until I saw Rhi's graphics). She thinks my old anxiety came back. 

 

I should probably go to the family doctor, maybe she will be more understanding.

 

Anyway, until then, I just have to cut my pills, at least I have my scale, I don't like it, but it works. You are right Petu, at least I can function, not at my best, but it is not very bad either. And I get faster and faster at cutting pills also... Today I did it in just 20 minutes I needed to learn the right technique first. I cannot set it to zero with the little tray on it. Because then, when I put the 12mg bit of pill (this is 0.8 mg of active substance) on top it still shows zero... So I need to set it to zero without the tray. Then put the tray, remember the weight of the tray, and add the pill, and subtract. Also, I should close the window when I do that, any small draft is disturbing to the scale, including my breath. But enough with this.  

 

Today we had a nice BBQ in the backyard, the weather is perfect. This helps a lot, seeing all the trees green, in bloom. So there are good things in my life too. 

 

I didn't increase back to 0.9, I am still at 0.8 (I was too lazy to cut more pills, and the next day I felt ok), I hope it will stabilize. I will give it at least a month, or more on it, until the next drop.

[Altostrata]

There are instructions for making your own liquid in the Paxil tapering topic.

[arwen]

Yeah, maybe this would be better. I should give it a try.

[arwen]

Sorry for the repeating reply... it is the first time posting from the phone, I pressed the "post" button twice because it was very slow.

[arwen]

Almost one month on 0.8mg (actually 0.77mg, to be precise, 12mg on the scale), so yesterday I decided to go even lower, to 0.65mg (10 mg on the scale). I know, it is more than 10% drop, but I will try and see what happens.

 

The last month was ok, it could have been better, but also much worse. Still waking up trembling every day, Paxil lightheaded. I am able to enjoy the summer, walking, do simple little things like cooking, sewing new curtains, talking on the phone with friends. And of course, going to work.

 

I didn't switch to liquid, I did not even ask the doctor for it. I will do it if I have to, if the dose will be so low I cannot measure it on the scale. But until then, I prefer the convenience of preparing it one week in advance (and double checking by measuring it twice).

 

The wave I had last month was probably a combination of withdrawal and PMS (or maybe peri) hormonal storms. I had one this month too, and I was stable on 0.77mg, a few weeks without changes.

[arwen]

Last 3 weeks were pretty good. I did not feel any extra withdrawal symptoms (except lightheaded and trembling in the very morning). I will also have some time off from work, so I decided to stop it completely. Wish me luck!

 

The environment (work, home, summer) is much better now than half a year ago when I tried and failed... The winter was quite bad this year and it added to the stress. 

 

Maybe in a couple of weeks the lightheadedness will lift. And for the morning trembling and for the tinnitus I don't know, I may have to wait longer. But they are more annoying than harmful.

 

Thanks to everyone who had the patience to read my thread or answer. I hope you are all well, on the path to recovery. 

[Petunia]

Thank you for the update arwen, I'm glad you are doing better and have felt pretty good for the last 3 weeks.  I would like to wish you luck for your plans to stop from .64mg, but I'm concerned this might not be a good idea, especially because you are still having some morning symptoms.

 

If you stop the careful taper now, it could bring on increased symptoms as your nervous system has to suddenly adjust to 0mg, which is a 100%  drop.  I know that eventually we have to stop from a very low dose, and that will always be a 100% cut, but the lower the dose, the less likely there will be a withdrawal reaction.

 

Even in minimum therapeutic doses, there is a big difference between a low dose and zero, here is a study which shows why:

 

Paper demonstrating the importance of gradual change in plasma concentration.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6036-why-taper-paper-demonstrates-importance-of-gradual-change-in-plasma-concentration/

 

Paxil was one of the drugs tested in the study.

 

Of course its your decision and I do wish you luck if you decide to go ahead.  Do stay in touch and let us know how you are doing.

 

Petu.

[arwen]

Thanks Petu.

 

Yeah, I read about that study, I even measured with a ruler on the computer screen to understand what percentage of occupancy would be for 1mg or for 0.64mg (too lazy to print on paper). And it would be around 10% for 1mg of Paxil and around 5% for 0.64. So I hope this 5% will be bearable, more than the 10% I tried last time I stopped completely. 

 

I probably could go even lower, and I would without the lightheadedness. All my time of Paxil I have been slightly dizzy, like drugged (this is because I was/am drugged  ), almost 3 years. But not for the few months when I tried to get rid of it last time. I had other problems then, but I was not lightheaded! I really miss my clear head!

 

For the other symptoms, tinnitus, trembling in the morning, they are bearable, and maybe my brain needs drug free environment to really start healing. The key words for the symptoms are "bearable" and "functional". 

 

So I will go ahead and stop it. I will keep you posted.

[GreenFlameTiger]

I would just like to say that what helped me with anxiety are the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. As Einstein said "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistant one." I found after listening to Eckhart's teachings that life became much lighter. That nothing was as heavy as it seemed. Life is light! And bright!

 

http://www.eckharttolletv.com

This a link for Eckhart Tolle TV. They have some free videos and you can get a month's subscription for free.

 

http://vimeo.com/14154681

Here is the link to the first chapter of the webcast of A New Earth with Oprah and Eckhart.

 

His two most influential books are The Power of Now and A New Earth. His teachings finally clicked for me while listening to the audio book of A New Earth.

 

I hope this helps.

[arwen]

Thanks Tiger, I will take a look at all this.

 

You are so right, our attitude and the way we think make a big difference. Maybe the symptoms don't disappear right away, but we definitely help the brain heal if our approach is positive. This is how therapy works, after all.

[arwen]

Last 3 weeks have been a kind of roller coaster for me, up and down, and then up again. I completely stopped Paxil, dropping to 0 from 0.64mg. I had to stop sooner or later, so why not from 0.64mg, especially because I was on vacation (didn't go anywhere, just stayed home and survived).

 

It was/is tough, but not worse than any other dose decrease. I am functional and I try to be positive (not always successful, but trying). 

 

Very good thing, I am not so dizzy/lightheaded anymore! Even the DR/DP moments are a little less scary, I can control it better. I still need to stop, to sit or lean against a wall, grip the railings of the stairs, but I recover faster, and t is not so unbearable that I avoid going places.

 

The morning cortisol anxiety is still there, every single day, for a few minutes after I wake up. I also had a few anxiety attacks in the middle of the day, even if I was home feeling safe. It was pure withdrawal, no stress, no negative thoughts. I had to do breathing exercises to calm down. It partially worked, I felt better, just a little anxious for the rest of the day.

 

I also have some other withdrawal symptoms, but they don't really prevent me from doing anything, I don't care much about them, for now at least. Tinnitus - it comes and goes. Brain zaps - not many, maybe once, twice a day, I cannot see any patterns. I get angry easy and I am irritable, but I control this most of the time. I have some very vivid interesting dreams (I had them each time decreasing the dose), but they are not nightmares, it is more like my brains processes/stores information during sleep to heal.

 

I also had a few very good moments, I can say windows, when I felt my old self! An old self I forgot, I couldn't contact for a long time. It really felt good even if it didn't last long, but I am positive it will happen again.

[mlrp]

Hello, Arwen,

 

I've been catching up on your story with interest. I admire your persistence and patience with your process, as well as your positive outlook - all very important for recovery!. I believe that you will come through this in time - much of what you write points to evidence of recovery. I especially think the ability to dream again is a definite sign of the brain repairing itself. 

 

I wish I had an answer for your cortisol mornings, but as you know, I have them too! 

 

Some day, we will once again wake up "fresh as a daisy," as Dalsaan recently reported she did! What a wonderful morning that will be!! Stay strong!

[arwen]

I am at 7 weeks free of Paxil, time for an update:

 

The bad:

I still wake up with anxiety and trembling. 

A couple of weeks ago I had a few days with brain zaps coming from nowhere. They would have been very scary if I didn't know what they were, and they went away the same they came, suddenly.

I still have tinnitus sometimes, but not continuously.

I still get easily angry.

 

The good: 

Dizziness, lightheadedness, DP/DR are completely done.

I go for walks alone, it feels very good. I couldn't do it for 3 years, I had to ask somebody to accompany me each time, but not anymore.

My sleep is very good. I dream almost every night, like I used to before Paxil.

[arwen]

I need some advice, I don't know if anybody reads this thread, if I don't get any answer I will try to create a new thread.

 

I was recently to the doctor and after a blood test she said that I am low in iron and B12. She suggested me to take both supplements. I don't mind taking iron, but the 250mg of B12 made me extremely anxious. I took only 2 pills and then I had to stop. I will go again to the doctor in a couple of weeks. What should I tell her? How can I take it, because I apparently need it, but without the anxiety, that is unbearable?

 

I know, my question is not really related to withdrawal, but maybe somebody else had such an experience.

 

Thank you.

[arwen]

250 mg or 250 mcg, I don't remember exactly.

[dalsaan]

Hi Arwen

 

B12 can be activating. Here us a thread on it from the symptoms and self care forum. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1392-vitamin-b12-essential-for-mood-nervous-system/?hl=vitamin

 

Read through that to see if it answers your questions. If not, post on that thread asking for any suggestions about how you might take it to restore your levels without tripping anxiety.

 

Dalsaan

[arwen]

Thanks Dalsaan.

[Altostrata]

You can get B12 from red meats.

 

You can take a fraction of a tablet or capsule, or get a liquid that you can titrate. The methylcobalamin form is best for absorption.

[arwen]

Thanks Alto. I will try liver and small fractions of the pill, it looks like the liver has even more than the meat itself. Luckly I am not vegetarian.

[Altostrata]

Make sure the liver is very fresh, and don't eat leftovers -- it spoils quickly.

[arwen]

Yeah, I am careful. Even frozen - and I have to freeze it, because the 500g package is too big for one meal - I don't keep it more than one week, maximum 2. After cooking I eat it immediately.

[mlrp]

Arwen -

 

Just a note to thank you for stopping by my thread - and hoping you are continuing to make progress... Hope you are still enjoying your solitary walks. How wonderful to once again enjoy being in your own company on a walk, without anxiety. ("Enjoy" being a relative term for all of us - but I hope it's enjoyable!).

 

I'm going for a walk on my lunch break now and will send you healing thoughts... ~*~*~*~*

[arwen]

Thanks mlrp. It feels good to have somebody thinking about you I am enjoying the walks, this is the best part!

 

I may not go very far like before (I used to walk for hours), I still avoid the crowds, but I do enjoy it like before, maybe even more, because of all this.

 

Even if I don't feel perfect, I try to remember how bad it was even half a year ago. And in the bad days I try to distract myself, and wait for it to pass.

[Altostrata]

Hang in there, arwen, you'll make it.

[arwen]

Thanks Alto. Of course I will make it  

[arwen]

I am at 3 months after stopping. This is the time when I crashed last winter... Is this the time when I am crashing now?

 

I had some very bad days. A lot of stress at work. A jerk keeps bothering me. If I was healthy, I would ignore him, but I cannot. Every single thing he is saying upsets me. More than that, even his presence upsets me. Going to work became a nightmare. It started many months ago, but it is worse and worse.

 

I thought I was doing great, but I am not anymore. I just want to quit, but I am afraid I will never find another job. I need rest and peace to heal and I cannot get them.

 

I know they are just neuro emotions, but knowing doesn't help. I suppose trying to take B12 didn't help. ( the doctor found me B12 deficient). I took very little from a B12 pill for the last few days.

 

I don't even know if I can blame this on Paxil withdrawal. I went slow with the tappering, it went well, much better than last time. The dizziness is gone. I had crises like that before, long before ever taking Paxil. Maybe this is what I am and I cannot do anything about it, independent of any pills I took.

[arwen]

I am feeling better today, I hope it was just a wave and it is gone now. The problems are not solved, but maybe if I feel better they are manageable.

[arwen]

Feeling reasonably well for the last one month. I still have bad days, when I am very anxious or very depressed, something small upsets me, and I feel it is the end of the world, but it doesn't usually last long. Most of the time I am ok. Sometimes I still wake up trembling, but not everyday like before.

 

I have been Paxil free for 4 months now, and it feels empowering to know that it is behind me after all I went through. I am still afraid to write a success story, maybe it is too early and I will jinx it. I will do it after one year, at least. 

 

I am a little afraid of the winter. I was good in summer, I could walk, enjoy the backyard, the fresh air. Now I am mostly indoors. I don't like snow at all, last winter was brutal, in Canada at least, and I was in a bad shape. What if all of the suffering will be back? It will not, but I am just afraid.

 

Fortunately I will have a few days off for Christmas, I am already dreaming and enjoying them in advance

[tgirl]

Hello A,

How are you doing?

I hope you are continuing to improve.

best of luck to you!

Tgirl

[mammaP]

Sorry you have had a wave Arwen, and glad it is easing up a bit. I understand your worries about winter, it isn't a 

good time for me either but hopefully my light box will help me through it. I am concerned about being stuck indoors 

when the weather gets bad but we will cope, it will come to an end and spring will follow on winter's heels. I'll be

watching for the snowdrops and crocuses that tell me spring is on it's way back again. 

 

I hope the jerk is leaving you alone, it's the last thing you need! 

[arwen]

Thanks tgirl, mammaP for visiting on my thread.

 

I feel better now, the waves are not very long, they pass. The situation at the office is also a little better, not solved, just calmer.

 

I am waiting to heal completely and then I can move forward, look for and find another job, one which I would like more. In the meantime I am happy to have a job, it gives me some sense of normality and stability.

 

I will start dreaming about spring in January and February, until then what keeps me going is anticipating the holidays, the spring is too far. I don't have many obligations during this time of the year, and some vacation is exactly what I need I can relax, watch DVD-s to distract my mind and forget about problems.

[chicken]

Thanks tgirl, mammaP for visiting on my thread.

 

I feel better now, the waves are not very long, they pass. The situation at the office is also a little better, not solved, just calmer.

 

I am waiting to heal completely and then I can move forward, look for and find another job, one which I would like more. In the meantime I am happy to have a job, it gives me some sense of normality and stability.

 

I will start dreaming about spring in January and February, until then what keeps me going is anticipating the holidays, the spring is too far. I don't have many obligations during this time of the year, and some vacation is exactly what I need I can relax, watch DVD-s to distract my mind and forget about problems.

Hi Arwen,

I just read through your thread. I have to admire you. You are one tough guy to come through this.

Since you had some problems in the winter time, have you considered trying light therapy with a light box? A friend of mine got off of paxil and she still has some winter blues. She told me that her light therapy box helps her.

[arwen]

Thanks Chicken, yeah, I should try the light therapy, it may help. I should also try to be more active in winter. During summer I walk quite a lot, but I miss this in winter.

[mlrp]

Hello, Arwen,

 

Thanks for stopping by my thread. It's funny, I'm only just realizing, that different community members have unique energies (organic to them, and discernible even in the midst of their symptoms) and whenever you visit, I am calmed for a moment by your soft, gentle spirit - kind of like an angel(!) 

 

I hope you are holding up. I'm encouraged by your recent improvements - and, like you, looking forward to some down time for the holidays. 

 

I have tried a light box during the winter in the recent past and it seemed to help. More recently, though, I am very sensitive to any light (especially in the morning) - but I may give the light box another try in the afternoons.

 

And, (unfortunately) I have also had experience - some years ago now - with a coworker who was stalking me. The company actually ended up letting him go (for performance issues - I guess it was easier to go that route because he had become a total slacker). I am so sorry if you are going through a similar situation - and hope that there can be some resolution for you soon.

 

I feel in a special way for all of us who somehow manage to hold down jobs - realizing, of course, that our fellow sufferers who are currently unable to work or otherwise perform higher functions would probably love to have that kind of problem. I guess in some ways we are the fortunate ones - but keeping it together for work exacts a toll, doesn't it? 

 

I will keep you in my prayers, angel Arwen.  I wish you ever-increasing peace, rest, and joy.

[arwen]

 

 

Its been three days and im already feelin 50% better. This is day three and im not in that dark hole with suicidal thoughts and the insane symptoms. Like u said its not fixed but its manageable now. I cant believe the difference between 1.6% of the dose i started tapering at to 0. Its scary to think 1.6 percent of the meds is so powerful and hard to come off of after almost two yrs of tapering. Just goes to show how strong these drugs are. A living nightmare. Im hoping ur doing well, Arwen. I noticed uve been off since July. How are u feeling?

Maybe we can take this conversation to Arwen's thread so we can keep this one on track (general information about reinstating and stabilizing). Thanks! :-)

 

 

Fine with me too  

A few updates about my journey in withdrawal:

 

I am pretty good lately. Better than a few months ago, when I finally stopped Paxil, the third time was the charm. 

 

Still have some symptoms, cortisol mornings, tinnitus, anxiety, but they don't last long. And I can function almost normally (I go to work, I can take the subway alone without panicking). I am happy with this. It is enough for now. 

[arwen]

7 months free of Paxil! What a difference this is! I feel pretty good, almost like my former self. 

 

DP/DR, extreme anxiety, crying spells, panic attacks, all are completely gone. Tinnitus only when the background noise is very low. I have some low anxiety sometimes, but it is just a normal reaction to stress. I don't dwell on it, it doesn't affect me much.

 

The B12 pills I started to take a couple of months ago helped also I think, it looks like I had very low levels. The anxiety generated by taking the B12 pill also diminished (I had troubles to take them in the beginning). 

 

The only symptom I still have is waking up trembling, almost everyday. It doesn't last long, a few seconds, not more than one minute. I don't know if it is because of cortisol surge, or something else. I don't wake up like in a panic, I am not even sure if the trembling is real, or it is internal, just felling I am trembling. It doesn't really matter, I can successfully ignore it, but I am curious to understand what it is and why. 

 

I will wait for the one year mark to write a success story, not to jinx it, but I think I am there already.