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☼ arwen Fighting with anxiety

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arwen
Hi everybody,

 

I have been reading this site for a while, but I didn't have the push to write my story. I was hoping to be free of Paxil forever and I was planning to write my success story after half a year, or one year. But this plan changed 2 weeks ago, when I had a breakdown :(

 

I started on Paxil, 2 and a half years ago, after another breakdown, worse than now, I was not functional, couldn't exit the house alone, dizzy, miserable. Paxil helped me (with a delay, a psychiatrist bumped it up to 20mg, and this hurt not helped). I recovered. I started slowly decreasing to 17.5, 15, 12.5, 10, 7.5, 5, 3.7, 2.5, at least one month at each step. It was not easy, I had different symptoms, brain zaps, tremors (even if nobody could see me trembling), dizziness, but it was manageable. I have been working full time all this time.

 

I became free of Paxil 3 months ago, just before holidays, when I had some time off. Again, I had symptoms in the first weeks, but it was bearable. 

 

And then, slowly I started feeling worse and worse, under control until 2 weeks ago, but after some stress at work (nothing out of extraordinary, nothing I didn't go through before) I had this new crash. The problem is a very high anxiety level, I wake up trembling inside, and feel my stomach in a knot all the time I am awake. I am continuously in high alert, I cannot relax. I can hear my heart beating all the time, I am scared without reason. After a couple of days like that I became very tired. I sleep relatively well, this is the only moment when I relax (but even then, I wake up after 6 hours, difficult to sleep back).

 

Yesterday I took 1 mg of Paxil in the afternoon (I still have a lot of pills from last year), and after only one hour the high anxiety went away. Instead I got dizzy, lightheaded, the veil on my brain is back :( This morning I took 2mg and I plan to continue like that, better slightly dizzy than trembling. 

 

I know that 2 mg is a very low quantity, just one tenth of the "therapeutic" dose, but for me it feels like a lot. This looked like the only solution right now.

 

I tried different supplements before, nothing helped, not even Magnesium or Omega 3 - they didn't hurt either ( the B vitamins did hurt, but I had not taken them for a long time). I am not drinking coffee, not eating chocolate, I avoid sugars, I try to eat balanced and healthy.

 


July 2011 - nasty anxiety crisis (lost job, became not functional, couldn't exit the house alone)

August 2011 - started 10mg Paxil  and October 2011 - 20mg (one month on 20mg)

November 2011 - starting slowly to decrease the dose at the pace my body supported. Down to 2.5 mg in January 2013 (17.5, 15, 12.5, 10, 7.5, 5, 3.7, 2.5) - at least one month at each step. Unpleasant, but functional, got a new job almost immediately

April 2013 - stopped completely, crashed after 2 weeks, and reinstalled 2.5mg, recovered fast.

September 2013 - started decreasing again, slower, down to 1 mg in December 2013

December 2013 - free of Paxil

March 2014 - another crash, exactly 3 months after stopping, after 2 weeks of horrors, reinstalled 1 mg - feeling better after one week.

March 2014 - July 2014: going slowly down: 1mg, 0.9mg, 0.77mg, 0.64mg

end of July 2014 - Paxil free, hopefully forever this time.

.

 

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mammaP

Hi Arwen, I'm sorry you have had withdrawal after tapering so carefully. Sadly it was still too fast

and caught up with you. Many of us have done the same thing, myself included, and had to reinstate.

If 1mg eased things a little it may be best to stick with that for a few weeks and see how it goes. If you

settle on 1mg it will be less to taper later. If you find it isn't helping then you could go up to 2mg. 

Our Nervous system changes with withdrawal and what might have worked before can be too much

later.  

I quit effexor at 5 beads but when I reinstated a month later 5 beads was too much and I eventually

settled with 4. It took several months to stabilise enough to restart a taper.  

 

Thank you for putting your history in your signature, it is very helpful for us. 

 

Welcome to SA, the best group on the net! 


**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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arwen

Thank you mammaP for your answer. I know this is the best group on the net, I have been reading it for some time. There are some amazing people writing here.

 

I started already with 2mg and I will stick to it for now, until I stabilize. Too many changes are not good either, and 1mg I feel like it is too low - I was on 2.5 for the longest time, and I felt good. It is much too early to see if it helps, I just replaced the extremely high anxiety - impossible to deal with, with some dizziness - more manageable, as long as I am safe home. I hope it goes away soon, after I get reused with the quarter of pill.

 

I took some days off work, but on Monday I need to go back, I suppose this refuels my worry.

 

I don't care right now very much about a future tapper, because I am not sure I will ever be able to do it. But I never say never :) I just want to be functional again, on a small quantity, without secondary effects. On 10mg I was putting on a lot of weight, on 2.5 mg I was able to (almost) get rid of it. On 20mg I was numb, on 2.5 mg I was almost normal (except the thin veil on my brain).


July 2011 - nasty anxiety crisis (lost job, became not functional, couldn't exit the house alone)

August 2011 - started 10mg Paxil  and October 2011 - 20mg (one month on 20mg)

November 2011 - starting slowly to decrease the dose at the pace my body supported. Down to 2.5 mg in January 2013 (17.5, 15, 12.5, 10, 7.5, 5, 3.7, 2.5) - at least one month at each step. Unpleasant, but functional, got a new job almost immediately

April 2013 - stopped completely, crashed after 2 weeks, and reinstalled 2.5mg, recovered fast.

September 2013 - started decreasing again, slower, down to 1 mg in December 2013

December 2013 - free of Paxil

March 2014 - another crash, exactly 3 months after stopping, after 2 weeks of horrors, reinstalled 1 mg - feeling better after one week.

March 2014 - July 2014: going slowly down: 1mg, 0.9mg, 0.77mg, 0.64mg

end of July 2014 - Paxil free, hopefully forever this time.

.

 

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Zoe

Hi Arwen-

Welcome to the site. You'll find some great answers & support here. Hang in there!


 

Jan. 1994 Pamelor

2000 switched to Zoloft 

2011 Zoloft pooped out- Dr. switched me directly to Lexapro15mg -had a horrible 6mths

2013 upped Lexapro to 20 mgs-pooped out

June 2013 Dr. added 150 Wellbutrin to Lexapro.

July 2013 Switched back to Zoloft 100mgs.Was still taking Wellbutrin. Lots of anxiety from the Wellbutrin

July 2013 Started to wean Wellbutrin- off by Sept.

Oct. 2013 added 400 mgs of Neurotin to the Zoloft

Jan 2014 Tapered off of the Zoloft and onto Prozac 30 mgs. Also still taking 400 mgs Neurotin

Feb 2014 Reduced Prozac to 13 mgs. Still taking 400 mgs Neurotin

Aug. 2014 Prozac 13 mgs. Finished with Neurotin. .7 Risperadol

 

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bubble

welcome Arwen,

 

I just wanted to add that you are reasoning very well and it shows you've done a lot of reading here. If I were you. I'd do the same.

 

Don't worry about Monday. Things won't improve immediately but will definitely get better bit by bit and ore bearable. MammaP explained it very well what probably went wrong and I see that you understand it yourself: it was quite slow but obviously still too fast.

 

Since you felt better immediately after reinstating, I'm really hopeful it will work for you.

 

hang in there!

 

best,

bubble


Current: Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013)

Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 
1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg.
2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg
went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days after
reinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours
28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr  2015 1 mg,  25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64  Xanax     9 month hold

24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26

Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic 

I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. 

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arwen

Thanks zoe, bubble. It was too fast at the very end. I think I was fine down to 2 mg in October, but then I rushed, the holidays were coming (good opportunity, time off), and I wanted to be over with. I should have known better. But we learn from our mistakes, so next time I will be smarter.

 

I hope other people will learn from it too. Don't rush the withdrawal, even if you take a tiny quantity! 


July 2011 - nasty anxiety crisis (lost job, became not functional, couldn't exit the house alone)

August 2011 - started 10mg Paxil  and October 2011 - 20mg (one month on 20mg)

November 2011 - starting slowly to decrease the dose at the pace my body supported. Down to 2.5 mg in January 2013 (17.5, 15, 12.5, 10, 7.5, 5, 3.7, 2.5) - at least one month at each step. Unpleasant, but functional, got a new job almost immediately

April 2013 - stopped completely, crashed after 2 weeks, and reinstalled 2.5mg, recovered fast.

September 2013 - started decreasing again, slower, down to 1 mg in December 2013

December 2013 - free of Paxil

March 2014 - another crash, exactly 3 months after stopping, after 2 weeks of horrors, reinstalled 1 mg - feeling better after one week.

March 2014 - July 2014: going slowly down: 1mg, 0.9mg, 0.77mg, 0.64mg

end of July 2014 - Paxil free, hopefully forever this time.

.

 

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arwen
I just want to write an update. I feel much better now, after one week of 1 mg of Paxil (2 mg one of the days). It took one week to have an effect and it finally did. I was able to go to work, unpleasant, but every day was better and better. 

 

Thank you so much mammaP, your idea to take 1 mg instead of 2 mg was excellent (and I almost didn't do it).

 

I suppose I will stabilize on 1 mg for at least a few months before starting again to decrease. And this time I will go slower. Last time I was slow only down to 1 mg. Then I just stopped, and that was a mistake. But I didn't know that you can withdraw from 1/10 of the smallest pill! 1/20 of the "therapeutic" dose! Now I know!


July 2011 - nasty anxiety crisis (lost job, became not functional, couldn't exit the house alone)

August 2011 - started 10mg Paxil  and October 2011 - 20mg (one month on 20mg)

November 2011 - starting slowly to decrease the dose at the pace my body supported. Down to 2.5 mg in January 2013 (17.5, 15, 12.5, 10, 7.5, 5, 3.7, 2.5) - at least one month at each step. Unpleasant, but functional, got a new job almost immediately

April 2013 - stopped completely, crashed after 2 weeks, and reinstalled 2.5mg, recovered fast.

September 2013 - started decreasing again, slower, down to 1 mg in December 2013

December 2013 - free of Paxil

March 2014 - another crash, exactly 3 months after stopping, after 2 weeks of horrors, reinstalled 1 mg - feeling better after one week.

March 2014 - July 2014: going slowly down: 1mg, 0.9mg, 0.77mg, 0.64mg

end of July 2014 - Paxil free, hopefully forever this time.

.

 

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NewMe

Arwen have you tried vitmin d3? Just curious


I'M A WEANER!  :D 
atavan PRN ,Paxil approx 20 yrs ago for major depression
Switched to Klonopin PRN through to current
Paxil wore out
Changed to Effexor 
Depakote added
enormous weight gain - flat affect - led to depression - dropped depakote
Dropped Effexor, changed to Paxil 
PDoc added mixed salts amphetamines for ADHD - took for 2 yrs - was ok at first but had to cut as symptoms too intense -  then the crash was too much. STOPPED
Vyvanse started in 2013 (APRIL) - more smooth than IR amphetamine tabs---Have not used vyvanse daily in full amt since May 2013 

Paxil CT withdrawal 10/2012  :wacko:  Klonopin CT WD

Switched Klonopin to Xanax prn  - too strong

WD CT from XANAX after taking for a while - it was awful but can be done if you hold on!

Back to Klonopin PRN - working very hard to avoid taking it at all. 

Effexor 37.5 started 02/2013, 75mg by 03/2013, 150mg by 05/2012 (approx)  :blush:

Effexor 150mg 3/10/2014 Microtaper -3beads  :unsure:

3/11/2014-4beads ,3/12/14 - 5, 3/13/14 -6, 3/15/14 - 7, 3/18 - 8, 3/22 - 10, 3/24 - 12, 4/6 - 13, 4/7 - 14, 4/11 - 16 - on 4/19 ran out of brand took generic. Bad move. Back on brand on 4/20 and updosed 2 beads. 5/1 - 15, 5/6 - 16, 5/9 -17, 55/10 -17, 5/15 -18, 5/21 -19, 5/24 -20, 6/3 - 21, 6/6 -23, 6/13 -24,6/19- 25, 6/21 -26, 6/25 -27

6/28 -28, 6/29 -30, 7/3 -34, 7/8 -35, 7/17 -36, 7/30 -41,7/31 -42, 8/2 -43, 8/3 -44, 8/5 -45, 8/14 -48, 8/26-50, 9/24 -53, 10/24 -55, 12/1 -57, (lost the tally sheet, thus taper info for some of it), 4/19-63, 4/26-64, 4/30-65 Switched to wt reduction - now @ -.068, 7/14 -.070, August 2015 -.074, between Sept & October 10 -.077, Nov. -.078(feeling great), -.090 as of 1/10/16, down to  -.101 since January 2016 (it is now 6/24/16), -.105 as of 8/13/16
 
 

Ladies, please don't underestimate the possibility of perimenopause. The symptoms can be similar to, may intensify & in some cases mimic protracted w/d from ssri's & benzo's. 

 

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Meimeiquest

So glad you're here! You might want to read Hudgens thread...he too ran into trouble at the end, but regrouped and has been an inspiration to us all...like MammaP. Good luck as you continue to heal!


1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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arwen

I tried a combination of B vitamins (not now, last time when my anxiety peaked, 2 years and a half ago), and it made me even more nervous and dizzy, so I gave up. Even the B-s from a multivitamin are too much for me. I prefer to avoid any excitants. I am sensitive to caffeine and sugar, even if sometimes I cannot resist to a piece of chocolate :) (not recently, only when I feel really good).


July 2011 - nasty anxiety crisis (lost job, became not functional, couldn't exit the house alone)

August 2011 - started 10mg Paxil  and October 2011 - 20mg (one month on 20mg)

November 2011 - starting slowly to decrease the dose at the pace my body supported. Down to 2.5 mg in January 2013 (17.5, 15, 12.5, 10, 7.5, 5, 3.7, 2.5) - at least one month at each step. Unpleasant, but functional, got a new job almost immediately

April 2013 - stopped completely, crashed after 2 weeks, and reinstalled 2.5mg, recovered fast.

September 2013 - started decreasing again, slower, down to 1 mg in December 2013

December 2013 - free of Paxil

March 2014 - another crash, exactly 3 months after stopping, after 2 weeks of horrors, reinstalled 1 mg - feeling better after one week.

March 2014 - July 2014: going slowly down: 1mg, 0.9mg, 0.77mg, 0.64mg

end of July 2014 - Paxil free, hopefully forever this time.

.

 

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Altostrata

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Nikki

Arwen I can't do the vitamins either.  Paxil is rough.  Been  there.

 

If you are a member of Facebook there is a group there which is solely devoted to helping people who are trying to get off Paxil.  It is based in the UK.  The people there are lovely and are in your situation.

 

Because this is not a FB site it is alot more helpful, easier to read and alot more information, much more information and you can connect with people as well.

 

LIke meimquest said.....good luck as you continue to heal...the other site is 'getting off paxil safely'

 

Hugs


Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

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arwen
I am not a big fan of Facebook, but in case I make an account, I will check the group.

 

Today I feet also good, like yesterday. Reinstalling the tiny quality of 1mg worked. I am already thinking about tapering, but I should take it easy, it is way too soon.

 

When I say I feel good, I don't mean I feel at my best, I am still dizzy, anxious, worried. But I am functional, going to work, I enjoy doing things , I am so much better than one week ago :)


July 2011 - nasty anxiety crisis (lost job, became not functional, couldn't exit the house alone)

August 2011 - started 10mg Paxil  and October 2011 - 20mg (one month on 20mg)

November 2011 - starting slowly to decrease the dose at the pace my body supported. Down to 2.5 mg in January 2013 (17.5, 15, 12.5, 10, 7.5, 5, 3.7, 2.5) - at least one month at each step. Unpleasant, but functional, got a new job almost immediately

April 2013 - stopped completely, crashed after 2 weeks, and reinstalled 2.5mg, recovered fast.

September 2013 - started decreasing again, slower, down to 1 mg in December 2013

December 2013 - free of Paxil

March 2014 - another crash, exactly 3 months after stopping, after 2 weeks of horrors, reinstalled 1 mg - feeling better after one week.

March 2014 - July 2014: going slowly down: 1mg, 0.9mg, 0.77mg, 0.64mg

end of July 2014 - Paxil free, hopefully forever this time.

.

 

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Petunia

Hi arwen,

 

I'm happy to hear that the reinstatement is starting to work.  If I were you I would give it at least a month before you start thinking of tapering.

 

Petu.


I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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mammaP

That is good news Arwen, I am so glad you are feeling better but have to agree with Petu,

don't make any more cuts for a few weeks so that you can stabilise. It is so easy to think 

it's safe to cut when feeling better but believe me it is not always safe! Cutting too soon can 

lead to withdrawal and a set back that can take months to settle again.  

 

Enjoy the new found wellness for a while and let your brain adjust  :)


**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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arwen

I will not cut now, It would probably take me back to the horrors from last week, and I definitely don't want that. I will wait more than one month, and then I will take it as slow as my digital scale allows... And only if I feel I am ready!

 

In between I have a lot of things to work on. Like relaxing more, not taking all my worries too seriously. I cannot stop the worries, but I can recognize what they are, just thoughts without substance.


July 2011 - nasty anxiety crisis (lost job, became not functional, couldn't exit the house alone)

August 2011 - started 10mg Paxil  and October 2011 - 20mg (one month on 20mg)

November 2011 - starting slowly to decrease the dose at the pace my body supported. Down to 2.5 mg in January 2013 (17.5, 15, 12.5, 10, 7.5, 5, 3.7, 2.5) - at least one month at each step. Unpleasant, but functional, got a new job almost immediately

April 2013 - stopped completely, crashed after 2 weeks, and reinstalled 2.5mg, recovered fast.

September 2013 - started decreasing again, slower, down to 1 mg in December 2013

December 2013 - free of Paxil

March 2014 - another crash, exactly 3 months after stopping, after 2 weeks of horrors, reinstalled 1 mg - feeling better after one week.

March 2014 - July 2014: going slowly down: 1mg, 0.9mg, 0.77mg, 0.64mg

end of July 2014 - Paxil free, hopefully forever this time.

.

 

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arwen

Another week, another update... I feel reasonably well on 1 mg, this is a tiny quantity for Paxil, but I had to reinstall, I was in hell. Now I am functional, I go to work, I do the daily chores in the house. I even went for a short walk today :) The spring still keeps us waiting... There was a pretty bad winter here in Canada, this also contributed to my misery.

 

I started some meditation (there are some free apps for the phones), but it is too early to know if it helps. The damage that the pills did to the brain can be cured with time and the meditation can give me this time. 


July 2011 - nasty anxiety crisis (lost job, became not functional, couldn't exit the house alone)

August 2011 - started 10mg Paxil  and October 2011 - 20mg (one month on 20mg)

November 2011 - starting slowly to decrease the dose at the pace my body supported. Down to 2.5 mg in January 2013 (17.5, 15, 12.5, 10, 7.5, 5, 3.7, 2.5) - at least one month at each step. Unpleasant, but functional, got a new job almost immediately

April 2013 - stopped completely, crashed after 2 weeks, and reinstalled 2.5mg, recovered fast.

September 2013 - started decreasing again, slower, down to 1 mg in December 2013

December 2013 - free of Paxil

March 2014 - another crash, exactly 3 months after stopping, after 2 weeks of horrors, reinstalled 1 mg - feeling better after one week.

March 2014 - July 2014: going slowly down: 1mg, 0.9mg, 0.77mg, 0.64mg

end of July 2014 - Paxil free, hopefully forever this time.

.

 

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Nikki

Arwen....

 

Glad you feel better - nothing wrong at all with reinstating.  If you need to go up again do so.  At least like you said you are out of he horrors of last week.  Stay put and give yourself a long break.  No rush...sometimes these breaks will go on for months and if they do so what....you feel better.

 

No matter who I talk to, when not working for sick time, vacation ,etc....we always dread going back....it's normal these days


Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

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Meimeiquest

You can look at reinstating as a way of taking care of yourself. It's what you needed, and you did it. A tiny bit like that is just to treat withdrawal, don't think you have relapsed.


1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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arwen

Nikki, you are so right about going back to work... And I had a break of only 3 days! But my anxious mind was predicting bad outcomes: "I will feel so sick, that I will have to go home immediately"...

 

Of course it was not like that at all! :) I was actually happy to talk to people, to go back to my computer and do something useful. I was/am still slightly lightheaded (from Paxil maybe, I didn't have it before), but this is so much better than being home the whole day, brooding over my problems, making the problem 10 folds bigger.

 

Meimeiquest: yeah, I don't feel like I relapsed. I tapered very carefully down to 1 mg, and I was fine. The final step to zero was problematic. I read everywhere about the 10% drop, but there is not much info about the end of taper. There is a moment when you cannot really do 10%. And I made the mistake to think that 1 mg is the last step. 

 

But how to taper from 1 mg is a problem for another day, now I don't have any other responsibility then to take care of myself and recover.


July 2011 - nasty anxiety crisis (lost job, became not functional, couldn't exit the house alone)

August 2011 - started 10mg Paxil  and October 2011 - 20mg (one month on 20mg)

November 2011 - starting slowly to decrease the dose at the pace my body supported. Down to 2.5 mg in January 2013 (17.5, 15, 12.5, 10, 7.5, 5, 3.7, 2.5) - at least one month at each step. Unpleasant, but functional, got a new job almost immediately

April 2013 - stopped completely, crashed after 2 weeks, and reinstalled 2.5mg, recovered fast.

September 2013 - started decreasing again, slower, down to 1 mg in December 2013

December 2013 - free of Paxil

March 2014 - another crash, exactly 3 months after stopping, after 2 weeks of horrors, reinstalled 1 mg - feeling better after one week.

March 2014 - July 2014: going slowly down: 1mg, 0.9mg, 0.77mg, 0.64mg

end of July 2014 - Paxil free, hopefully forever this time.

.

 

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Nikki

arwen I have a friend in the UK who got off paxil three years ago.  When she was in the lower doses as you are she had to stop with the 10% reduction schedule and make very minor drops....very small

 

You an drop 1 droplet out of a syringe and in the lower doses that may be as much as you can take.  She used Rescue Remedy for the anxiety and always kept it in her pocketbook.  After she finished she still took RR and was fine. 

 

Brooding at home.....yep that's me thinking obsessively and worrying.  Best to be out and about.


Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

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arwen

I don't usually have sleeping problems (I am lucky, I know :) ), but last night I barely slept 4 hours. My heart was pounding, my pulse was faster, each time I was almost asleep my internal alarm system was triggered. Exactly like some weeks ago, when I crashed and I had to reinstate.

 

I know that this night I will sleep well, and it was good to happen in weekend, I feel good now (I even went for a nice walk today), but I am trying to find the cause. Is it possible that the Paxil pill is not uniformly distributed? And some days, I thing I take 1 mg (carefully calculated and measured on the scale), but I actually take less? 


July 2011 - nasty anxiety crisis (lost job, became not functional, couldn't exit the house alone)

August 2011 - started 10mg Paxil  and October 2011 - 20mg (one month on 20mg)

November 2011 - starting slowly to decrease the dose at the pace my body supported. Down to 2.5 mg in January 2013 (17.5, 15, 12.5, 10, 7.5, 5, 3.7, 2.5) - at least one month at each step. Unpleasant, but functional, got a new job almost immediately

April 2013 - stopped completely, crashed after 2 weeks, and reinstalled 2.5mg, recovered fast.

September 2013 - started decreasing again, slower, down to 1 mg in December 2013

December 2013 - free of Paxil

March 2014 - another crash, exactly 3 months after stopping, after 2 weeks of horrors, reinstalled 1 mg - feeling better after one week.

March 2014 - July 2014: going slowly down: 1mg, 0.9mg, 0.77mg, 0.64mg

end of July 2014 - Paxil free, hopefully forever this time.

.

 

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Altostrata

It may take a while for your nervous system to stabilize. You'll be going through waves and windows. See the Symptoms and Self-care forum for suggestions on dealing with symptoms.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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arwen
A new update about my (tiny) Paxil reinstating:

I was feeling stable and better at 1 mg, out of the dark hole, but not good enough for the long term, so one week ago I decided to increase it slightly to 1.4 mg. I looked at my calendar from last year, and I noticed that from 1.4 down I started to hurry, not stabilizing enough, considering the amount too small to matter anymore. But it matters :(

 

After starting 1.4 mg, a couple of days ago, I had a window when I felt really good. The rest of the time I feel acceptable. I slept like a baby every night of the last week :)


July 2011 - nasty anxiety crisis (lost job, became not functional, couldn't exit the house alone)

August 2011 - started 10mg Paxil  and October 2011 - 20mg (one month on 20mg)

November 2011 - starting slowly to decrease the dose at the pace my body supported. Down to 2.5 mg in January 2013 (17.5, 15, 12.5, 10, 7.5, 5, 3.7, 2.5) - at least one month at each step. Unpleasant, but functional, got a new job almost immediately

April 2013 - stopped completely, crashed after 2 weeks, and reinstalled 2.5mg, recovered fast.

September 2013 - started decreasing again, slower, down to 1 mg in December 2013

December 2013 - free of Paxil

March 2014 - another crash, exactly 3 months after stopping, after 2 weeks of horrors, reinstalled 1 mg - feeling better after one week.

March 2014 - July 2014: going slowly down: 1mg, 0.9mg, 0.77mg, 0.64mg

end of July 2014 - Paxil free, hopefully forever this time.

.

 

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Wow, that is great news. You'll probably do better this time with a much slower taper. I sleep like a baby who wakes up too often but it's not from hunger, just withdrawal. I'm glad you get good sleep.


What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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Altostrata

Good to hear, arwen.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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arwen

Thanks Cymbalta and Alto for your nice words.

 

My day got even better :) I went for a one hour walk today, and, for the first time this year, I are the lunch in the backyard! The trees are still grey, but the weather is improving, and it was so good to breathe the fresh air, to see the lake and the birds. The robins are back :)


July 2011 - nasty anxiety crisis (lost job, became not functional, couldn't exit the house alone)

August 2011 - started 10mg Paxil  and October 2011 - 20mg (one month on 20mg)

November 2011 - starting slowly to decrease the dose at the pace my body supported. Down to 2.5 mg in January 2013 (17.5, 15, 12.5, 10, 7.5, 5, 3.7, 2.5) - at least one month at each step. Unpleasant, but functional, got a new job almost immediately

April 2013 - stopped completely, crashed after 2 weeks, and reinstalled 2.5mg, recovered fast.

September 2013 - started decreasing again, slower, down to 1 mg in December 2013

December 2013 - free of Paxil

March 2014 - another crash, exactly 3 months after stopping, after 2 weeks of horrors, reinstalled 1 mg - feeling better after one week.

March 2014 - July 2014: going slowly down: 1mg, 0.9mg, 0.77mg, 0.64mg

end of July 2014 - Paxil free, hopefully forever this time.

.

 

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arwen

Just a short update: I continue with 1mg/day (1.4 mg was too much, it was making my brain even more foggy). I am functional, I go to work, I take walks almost every day. The anxiety and cortisol surges decreased. I still wake up trembling, but it goes away after a few minutes. The foggy head (and slight dizziness) is the only concern right now, but they are manageable. I traded the clear head (that I had before I reinstated the tiny dose) with the insufferable anxiety (or vice versa). 


July 2011 - nasty anxiety crisis (lost job, became not functional, couldn't exit the house alone)

August 2011 - started 10mg Paxil  and October 2011 - 20mg (one month on 20mg)

November 2011 - starting slowly to decrease the dose at the pace my body supported. Down to 2.5 mg in January 2013 (17.5, 15, 12.5, 10, 7.5, 5, 3.7, 2.5) - at least one month at each step. Unpleasant, but functional, got a new job almost immediately

April 2013 - stopped completely, crashed after 2 weeks, and reinstalled 2.5mg, recovered fast.

September 2013 - started decreasing again, slower, down to 1 mg in December 2013

December 2013 - free of Paxil

March 2014 - another crash, exactly 3 months after stopping, after 2 weeks of horrors, reinstalled 1 mg - feeling better after one week.

March 2014 - July 2014: going slowly down: 1mg, 0.9mg, 0.77mg, 0.64mg

end of July 2014 - Paxil free, hopefully forever this time.

.

 

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Rhiannon

Hang in there arwen, the waves and windows will come and go but if you stick with it and don't change anything you will stabilize eventually.

 

I notice you mentioning several times that 1 mg seems like a small quantity. You might be interested in the charts from this thread:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6036-why-taper-paper-demonstrates-importance-of-gradual-change-in-plasma-concentration/

 

If you look at the one for paroxetine, you can see that at 20 mg you have 80% receptor occupancy, but at 2 mg you still have about 20% receptor occupancy. That's a 90% drop in dose but only a 75% drop in receptor occupancy. And that just gets even more extreme below 2 mg. It looks like it's about 15% occupancy at 1 mg so that's a decrease of 95% in dosage but only 81% in receptor occupancy.

 

And from 1 mg down to zero you have to drop that last 19%. So it's not that small!

 

It's not a straight line, it's an exponential curve, which is why what works is tapering based not on your starting dose but on your current dose.

 

Your taper was linear, which works at the higher doses, but as you can see from the charts, at lower doses the receptor occupancy changes drastically with only a very small change in dosage, so a linear taper is pretty drastic at those doses.

 

So basically you're in withdrawal now. You can expect symptoms to come and go for a while. You will stabilize eventually, and then you can taper off using the 10% taper, with very small drops, 10% of your current dose at each step until you get to a really miniscule amount. At 1 mg your first cut should be no more than 0.1 mg.


Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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Altostrata

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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arwen

Thank you Rhi. This explains so much. This is why I didn't have any problem (except some annoying but harmless symptoms) until at the very end. I think also that there is a very big variation between different people. The exponential (logarithmic) pattern is the same, but maybe for some people it starts dropping at higher dose and for others, like me, at lower doses. So most of people can stop after 1mg, but not me and other like me.

 

This is what I will do. I will keep it at 1mg for the time being.


July 2011 - nasty anxiety crisis (lost job, became not functional, couldn't exit the house alone)

August 2011 - started 10mg Paxil  and October 2011 - 20mg (one month on 20mg)

November 2011 - starting slowly to decrease the dose at the pace my body supported. Down to 2.5 mg in January 2013 (17.5, 15, 12.5, 10, 7.5, 5, 3.7, 2.5) - at least one month at each step. Unpleasant, but functional, got a new job almost immediately

April 2013 - stopped completely, crashed after 2 weeks, and reinstalled 2.5mg, recovered fast.

September 2013 - started decreasing again, slower, down to 1 mg in December 2013

December 2013 - free of Paxil

March 2014 - another crash, exactly 3 months after stopping, after 2 weeks of horrors, reinstalled 1 mg - feeling better after one week.

March 2014 - July 2014: going slowly down: 1mg, 0.9mg, 0.77mg, 0.64mg

end of July 2014 - Paxil free, hopefully forever this time.

.

 

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WinningThrough

Hi all. I've just tried looking at these charts with my drug mashed pea brain!! Prior to drugs I had a sharp, intelligent mind and would have been able to grasp this. Now..no chance! It just ain't happening!

 

So, just wondering..the lowest 'therapeutic' dose of sertraline is 50mg. I've reinstated at 1mg and I can't for the life of me work out what occupancy that is! Any ideas?

 

Thank you.


The only way out is through.

 

Aug 2013 - Augmentin leading to akathisia

Sept-Nov 2013 - Citalopram 20mg, severe reaction, off at 5mg. Valium 4mg, prn

Oct 2013 - 5 zopiclone tablets, 7.5mg

End Nov 2013-end Feb 2014, Seroquel, top dose 150mg, off at 25mg

End Nov 2013-early march 2014, Zoloft 100mg top dose, off at 25mg

End Dec-2013-early April 2014, lorazepam 1mg prn

April 3rd 2014 zoloft 5mg for a few days. 18/4/14 - zoloft, 1mg. Came off at 0.35 mg,14th June 2014

29 June 2014 - 1mg lorazepam, last ever

29 June 2014 - med free

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WinningThrough

Er, sorry Arwen! I'm not sure how my last post ended up here! I was looking at those tapering/occupancy charts and somehow managed to post about them in your thread. I think it's because there is a link to the charts here. Doh!


The only way out is through.

 

Aug 2013 - Augmentin leading to akathisia

Sept-Nov 2013 - Citalopram 20mg, severe reaction, off at 5mg. Valium 4mg, prn

Oct 2013 - 5 zopiclone tablets, 7.5mg

End Nov 2013-end Feb 2014, Seroquel, top dose 150mg, off at 25mg

End Nov 2013-early march 2014, Zoloft 100mg top dose, off at 25mg

End Dec-2013-early April 2014, lorazepam 1mg prn

April 3rd 2014 zoloft 5mg for a few days. 18/4/14 - zoloft, 1mg. Came off at 0.35 mg,14th June 2014

29 June 2014 - 1mg lorazepam, last ever

29 June 2014 - med free

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arwen

More updates:

 

I was 3 weeks on 0.9 mg, the transition from 1 mg was very smooth. Just some extra trembling, a few brain zaps, but no anger, no crying, no extra dizziness or extreme anxiety. The morning trembling remained the same. 

 

1 week ago, I went to 0.8 and it look like it was a mistake. At the beginning I felt great, the Paxil "dizziness" that accompanied me most of the last 2 years and a half (except the 2 month when I didn't take it), was almost gone. But today, I had, not one, but two breakdowns. I cried for 1 hour at work when something minor triggered my reaction (I am lucky to have understanding boss and colleagues), and later, in the bus, I cried the whole hour coming home. The reaction was way out of proportions, so I can blame only Paxil. From tomorrow I will go back to 0.9. 

 

But I don't really know what to do long term. If there were 1mg pills (or 2 mg that can be cut in 2), I will be very happy to take it indefinitely, with the hope that the dizziness will go away in time. But like that, it is difficult to cut and measure very exact. I spend half an hour every weekend to prepare my pills for the week. I can do it for a few months, but I don't want to do it for ever.


July 2011 - nasty anxiety crisis (lost job, became not functional, couldn't exit the house alone)

August 2011 - started 10mg Paxil  and October 2011 - 20mg (one month on 20mg)

November 2011 - starting slowly to decrease the dose at the pace my body supported. Down to 2.5 mg in January 2013 (17.5, 15, 12.5, 10, 7.5, 5, 3.7, 2.5) - at least one month at each step. Unpleasant, but functional, got a new job almost immediately

April 2013 - stopped completely, crashed after 2 weeks, and reinstalled 2.5mg, recovered fast.

September 2013 - started decreasing again, slower, down to 1 mg in December 2013

December 2013 - free of Paxil

March 2014 - another crash, exactly 3 months after stopping, after 2 weeks of horrors, reinstalled 1 mg - feeling better after one week.

March 2014 - July 2014: going slowly down: 1mg, 0.9mg, 0.77mg, 0.64mg

end of July 2014 - Paxil free, hopefully forever this time.

.

 

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Petunia

Hi Arwen,

I'm sorry you had a bad day, its great you have a supportive work environment.

 


But I don't really know what to do long term. If there were 1mg pills (or 2 mg that can be cut in 2), I will be very happy to take it indefinitely, with the hope that the dizziness will go away in time. But like that, it is difficult to cut and measure very exact. I spend half an hour every weekend to prepare my pills for the week. I can do it for a few months, but I don't want to do it for ever.

 

Perhaps you could think of it like this:

 

I'm happy to spend just half an hour each weekend to prepare my medication so that for the rest of the week I can have some functionality in my life and some control over how I experience most of my moments, as I continue to taper.

 

I think going back to 0.9 was probably a good idea. Give it a few more weeks.  As dose gets lower, it seems for some people, our nervous system becomes more sensitive to changes, as explained in those charts Rhi posted.

 

Petu.


I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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Altostrata

Can you get a prescription for Paxil liquid? It will make it easier to taper.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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