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Janek: My horrendous story


janek

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Thank you, Skyler. Could you tell me the difference between Gabapentin  and Lyrica in terms of advantages and disadvantages. Looks that both have a potential for WD and need tapering?  It's been less that a week that I am taking it on a regular basis (trying to figure out if it helps with severe symptoms and for sleep in higher doses). So if you could be more specific about why gabapentin is not used for this purpose. May be GABA-producing supplements then which I've been taking for awhile and unsuccessfully?

I'm not clear on your question, are you thinking that gabapentin acts on GABA? Gabapentin, despite it's misleading name, does not have any special effect on Gaba.

 

Gabapentin does not help with AD withdrawal, so there is no reason to take it for this purpose. I was prescribed Lyrica for an unrelated issue. Gabapentin is a psychotropic, and all psychotropics potentially need tapering, especially when one's CNS has already been compromised as yours has been. I have not read posts on this site that give accounts of drugs being successfully used to treat WD and cannot advise you further on this.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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JaneK

 

Yes people do make the choice to cross over with the intention of ultimately get off drugs.  I understand what you are saying.  Been there.  I can understand wanting to find something to help with depression at this in time.

 

How did you feel while on Cymbalta and Remeron?  Was the depression better?  You said you were thinking about Rhi's advise.

 

And then the doctor wants you to take Prozac.  And then Alto pointed out how adding meds can cause more problems.

 

There are alot of people here on Neurontin.

 

It is a tough decision.

 

Maybe you can look up all the meds you have mentioned and try to obtain more information on all of them.  You can just google them.  You can log onto crazymeds dot com and read up....there are forums there too and maybe you can hit on a few thread that might help.

 

I have recently messed myself up with meds so I am not a good person to ask.  I have learned from my own mistakes is that when I mix meds it affects me very badly.  For myself 'keeping it simple is the best way to go.'

 

I feel you and sense your sense of desperation in trying to find a viable solution.

 

Hang in there......

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

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Skyler, I didn't mean to treat WD, just to ease it up; I guess, everybody tries to find something that could reduce your suffering to a some degree, otherwise, it's not possible to survive. It's very difficult but unless you try something you don't know for sure if it could be of any help. What I've derived from our forum so far - Lamictal (low dose). loxapine. Anything else I missed? I am willing to give everything from this list a try (and also to be certain what to ask the doctor for). And I'd really appreciate others' feedback on those things. Nikki, my depression was in no way better on Cymbalta and Remeron (first time Cymbalta helped me but as I stated in my intro I got off, then plunged into severe withdrawal, stayed firm not to resume taking it despite the doctors were pushing me to, but while at the hospital was put on Remeron - b/c adamantly opposed Cymbalta, and finally after ECT, when I wasn't able to make decisions - they added Cymbalta again). Neither Remeron (I went as high as 45mg), nor Cymbalta worked this time at all. When I'd bring it up with my then doctor about it's ineffectiveness and therefore the urge to change something - I'd  be turned down. I was still incompetent (after ECT) to undertake any decisive steps; that's why I stayed on a full dose of Cymbalta for 4-5ms before finally started tapering. Remeron I've been taking for almost a year with the same result. And I was damn wrong to engage in the process of weaning both at the same time. To reinstate for me means - Cymbalta and Remeron (may be half a dose?), other drugs are subject of the past for me, i'ts been awhile (not long enough perhaps to eliminate the consequences but there is no way back to them). Also, what do you, guys, use for persistent insomnia? Even potent sleeping pills (Lunesta) don't always work and besides, they are also dangerous to take on a regular basis.

2005-2011 - Cymbalta (40 mg)
2011, summer - started tapering skipping days, symptoms began in August-September
March 2012 - stopped cymbalta, symptoms got unbearable right away
April - May 2012 - started on Prozac(10-20mg) to ease the symptoms, stopped in 4 weeks
The rest of the year continued to suffer tremendously, spiraling down, acquiring more and more symptoms.

Tried different anternative modalities: acupuncture, supplements, hyperbaric oxygenation, even medical marijuana

2013 - 3 hospitalizations (January, April and July), had gone through a partial hospitalization program, undergone ECT (31 sessions)

April 2013 - started a combination of drugs - Remeron (30mg), Klonopin, Buspar, Risperdal (don't remember dosages)

August 2013 - returned to Cymbalta (60mg)

October - December 2013 - tapered down Risperdal, Buspar, Klonopin

January - present - trying to get off of Cymbalta and Remeron - unsuccessfully (now down to 7.5mg of each)

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Jane, Are you able to read the symptoms forum? The pinned ones at the top are the most important, the ones that work for most people. That's how we do it. And sometimes we just lay down with slow deep breathes and let it wash over us. Many cannot do many things, but we do survive, and you can too. (I say that more from other's stories, not my own). It's a choice, to decide that letting the brain heal itself is the best medicine. I mean this most gently, but it looks like your life has been gravely complicated by trying to make it better. We hope you'll be a fabulous success story one day!

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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  • Administrator

Jane, you've been drug shopping for 2 years that I know about. You keep on looking for a "temporary" quick fix. Your current situation is exactly what it was 2 years ago. What does that tell you?

 

This site is not a place to find out about new drugs to try. Loxapine?? Who suggested that??? There is not a word on this site about loxapine except that it's hellish to taper.

 

I've done my best to point you in the right direction, and you adamantly turn around and go the other way. You will do anything but take a gradual approach and let your nervous system settle down.

 

Using this site for drug shopping is inappropriate. I have to ask you to stop it immediately.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Thank you so much, Meimei. As for you, Alto. I found out about Loxapine (Oxcarbazepine) from your suggestion - what to ask the psych for. It's not true, I haven't been shopping for a quick fix. The time you refer to (2012) I was toughing out Cymbalta WD (only drug I had been taking), I stayed drug free for over a year  and I don't want to repeat my story, but if you've read it carefully, you may have noticed that I was put on a bunch of meds involuntarily while at the hospital, they couldn't make me to go back to Cymbalta but I should have obeyed them otherwise. And after yet another hospitalization Cymbalta was added again (my wish wasn't taken into account). And as you can guess I ended up at the hospitals few times not b/c I was doing well. I found this forum informative, people ask and offer suggestions to be able to endure tough time, I don't see anything inappropriate to look for other people experiences with different remedies. I thought that those who suffered greatly could understand each other well and be considerate, not harsh. Forgive me if I am wrong.

2005-2011 - Cymbalta (40 mg)
2011, summer - started tapering skipping days, symptoms began in August-September
March 2012 - stopped cymbalta, symptoms got unbearable right away
April - May 2012 - started on Prozac(10-20mg) to ease the symptoms, stopped in 4 weeks
The rest of the year continued to suffer tremendously, spiraling down, acquiring more and more symptoms.

Tried different anternative modalities: acupuncture, supplements, hyperbaric oxygenation, even medical marijuana

2013 - 3 hospitalizations (January, April and July), had gone through a partial hospitalization program, undergone ECT (31 sessions)

April 2013 - started a combination of drugs - Remeron (30mg), Klonopin, Buspar, Risperdal (don't remember dosages)

August 2013 - returned to Cymbalta (60mg)

October - December 2013 - tapered down Risperdal, Buspar, Klonopin

January - present - trying to get off of Cymbalta and Remeron - unsuccessfully (now down to 7.5mg of each)

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Hi again, I just realized my question "Can. You read?" Might have sounded like sarcasm. But it's a real question...many people type out an intro but cannot navigate to read or concentrate to read. I hope you are finding some helpful information. You certainly have been through the wringer :(.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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  • Administrator

Jane, I have never suggested anyone request oxcarbazepine. It is with tremendous reluctance I suggest that anyone ask a doctor for any drug.

 

If you have nothing to do here but try to pry drug suggestions out of people, or if you don't like my style, this is the wrong site for you. I bent over backward to support you for a very long time.

 

As you may recall, I gave you the name of a doctor, perhaps the very best there is for what you're suffering, and you don't care to bother with him.

 

As meimei suggested, you are welcome to read in the Symptoms and Self-care forum and learn how to take care of yourself.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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That's right, Meimei. I am just barely sitting here at the computer trying to overcome severe anxiety and depression. That's why it probably looks so erratic b/c I am so desperate and am not able to navigate the site appropriately, thank you for directing me.

2005-2011 - Cymbalta (40 mg)
2011, summer - started tapering skipping days, symptoms began in August-September
March 2012 - stopped cymbalta, symptoms got unbearable right away
April - May 2012 - started on Prozac(10-20mg) to ease the symptoms, stopped in 4 weeks
The rest of the year continued to suffer tremendously, spiraling down, acquiring more and more symptoms.

Tried different anternative modalities: acupuncture, supplements, hyperbaric oxygenation, even medical marijuana

2013 - 3 hospitalizations (January, April and July), had gone through a partial hospitalization program, undergone ECT (31 sessions)

April 2013 - started a combination of drugs - Remeron (30mg), Klonopin, Buspar, Risperdal (don't remember dosages)

August 2013 - returned to Cymbalta (60mg)

October - December 2013 - tapered down Risperdal, Buspar, Klonopin

January - present - trying to get off of Cymbalta and Remeron - unsuccessfully (now down to 7.5mg of each)

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Here is a citation I was given:

 

ALTO: (some of the things want to applicable to you, but learn :)

 

You're seeing your new psychiatrist tomorrow, correct? Here's what I would do:

 
1) TODAY: Go to your pharmacist and find out whether you can get loxapine as a liquid. Check on prices for this and liquid oxcarbazepine and whether your insurance covers them. Get the NDC numbers from the pharmacist.
 
Also find your nearest compounding pharmacy http://survivinganti...-and-elsewhere/
 
2) At your psychiatrist appointment: First, find out his recommendation for minimizing your drugs. This will indicate to you if he is reasonable, informed, and willing to work with you.
 
3) Then, present what you've learned here. Discuss it with him, if possible. If discussion is not possible, go on to step 4. (Also make plans to find another psychiatrist or doctor you can work with.)
 
4) No matter what his attitude is, your goal is to come out of the meeting with prescriptions you can use to taper. Make your request calmly, politely, firmly, and repeatedly, as though you were training a large dog.
 
Loxapine: Get your loxapine prescription filled in 5mg capsules OR a prescription for the liquid OR a prescription for a liquid from a compounding pharmacy.
 
If he doesn't know how to write a prescription for a compounded liquid, it goes something like this:
 
Compounded liquid, xxx milligrams loxapine in xxx milliliters for a concentration of 1 milligram:1 millilters. Take 4mg in a.m. and 6mg in p.m. 

 

May be, this was a misleading reference, I am sorry. I want to point out that English is not my native language, also my cognition is significantly impaired by ECT. If I expressed myself inadequately it was not my intention.

2005-2011 - Cymbalta (40 mg)
2011, summer - started tapering skipping days, symptoms began in August-September
March 2012 - stopped cymbalta, symptoms got unbearable right away
April - May 2012 - started on Prozac(10-20mg) to ease the symptoms, stopped in 4 weeks
The rest of the year continued to suffer tremendously, spiraling down, acquiring more and more symptoms.

Tried different anternative modalities: acupuncture, supplements, hyperbaric oxygenation, even medical marijuana

2013 - 3 hospitalizations (January, April and July), had gone through a partial hospitalization program, undergone ECT (31 sessions)

April 2013 - started a combination of drugs - Remeron (30mg), Klonopin, Buspar, Risperdal (don't remember dosages)

August 2013 - returned to Cymbalta (60mg)

October - December 2013 - tapered down Risperdal, Buspar, Klonopin

January - present - trying to get off of Cymbalta and Remeron - unsuccessfully (now down to 7.5mg of each)

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Oh, Jane, I'm sure Alto will write, but she wrote that to someone who is taking, and very sick from, the medicine. She is trying to help them get off of it. It is the problem, not the solution. Because I have lived in places where English was not spoken, I can't imagine how tough it would be doing this as a second language. Hugs!

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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  • Moderator Emeritus

I see I caused a very big misunderstanding and I'm very sorry!

 

Jane asked a question on how to deal with psychiatrists and in response to that question I quoted a post Alto made to another member in which she brilliantly described a strategy IN THE CONTEXT OF THAT PERSON.

 

I added (although I didn't think it was necessary that some of the things won't be applicable to Jane, of course!

 

janek, on 22 Mar 2014 - 03:25 AM, said:snapback.png

I also have another question in regards to psychiatrists. Since almost none of them recognize WD, how do you communicate with your psychiatrist who apparently can't be your ally and guide in the long process of overcoming withdrawal. The ones that I saw in the past always suggest to take more and more medications or raise the dose, so I couldn't strike a dialogue with them and had to search yet another one. Or do you not go to any psychiatrist at all and just make it on your own?

  That was my answer

this is a good question. I stopped listening to my psychiatrist long time ago and regret I didn't do so much earlier. She was actually much less harmful than most of the others and that's why I stuck with her but she still caused me the worst suffering of my life with her instruction to just stop taking ADs. When I came to her with horrible symptoms she would just nod sadly at the return of my illness (she did try to find outside stressors that caused that 'relapse' but couldn't and then she would do the only thing she knew: prescribe a new 'better' drug "we just got lucky to get from the US").

 

this is what Alto wrote to some other member. A great explanation of how to deal with psychiatrists. In addition, your GP can prescribe you the medication so your task is to find somebody who will listen to you and let you be in charge. As I say for all their degrees and everything this is our life, our brain and ultimately our suffering.

 

ALTO: (some of the things won't be applicable to you, but learn  :)

 

You're seeing your new psychiatrist tomorrow, correct? Here's what I would do:

 

(the rest of the quote)

 

Jane, I am really very, very sorry you failed to see that :(  (a part of the quote mentioned medication that this other member was taking but I thought you would learn from that situation how even very complex situations can be addressed and not assume Alto was advising YOU to take those meds. 

 

 A part of my mistake is that I don't know how to quote what people wrote in other posts properly so I just copy/ past :(  But you understood it was a citation.

 

I failed to understand the consequences of ECT might be such that you find it hard to process this kind of information. But then again I didn't want to stigmatise you.

 

I post in people's threads because I think it's important for them to see they were heard but I think I will stop with that practice because I see it can be very dangerous :(

 

best,

 

bubble

Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2

2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013)

Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 
1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg.
2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg
went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days after
reinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours
28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr  2015 1 mg,  25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64  Xanax     9 month hold

24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26

Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic 

I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Bubble, Suggestion? How about when you post a quote, putting a link thru to the relevant thread? When we quote within a forum the quote box shows up. But this may not happen if it's outside, so maybe just cut and paste a link for reference along with the number of the post. I've wondered where your quotes came from a number of times, as I've wanted to read more.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Bubble, Suggestion? How about when you post a quote, putting a link thru to the relevant thread? When we quote within a forum the quote box shows up. But this may not happen if it's outside, so maybe just cut and paste a link for reference along with the number of the post. I've wondered where your quotes came from a number of times, as I've wanted to read more.

 

thank you so much for your understanding skyler!

 

I actually got pretty sad about this flop I've made :( I had the best intentions of course (but we know what happens with intentions).

 

I will study this very hard now and ask my boyfriend to help me figure it out based on the kind instructions you wrote. I noticed what the rest of you do but had no idea how to do it myself :( I see this MultiQuote button but was never able to figure out how to use it. This flop will now motivate me hard to finally master it... 

Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2

2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013)

Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 
1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg.
2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg
went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days after
reinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours
28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr  2015 1 mg,  25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64  Xanax     9 month hold

24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26

Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic 

I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. 

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  • Administrator

janek, no arguing. If you want to stay on this site, you must follow my rules. Read this What will get you warned or banned

 

There is no one here who knows of any drug you can add to your cocktail to make you feel better. Stop asking for that advice.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Janek, I feel so sorry for you. I have been going through a suicidal period and I understand you completely. I understand everything you have written... I am sorry not to have any advice. I wish I had for both of us, alas, I do not know.

I only hope we feel better soon. Sending healing greetings across the ocean.

Put on trazadone for 8 weeks. Psychic akathisia started on 100 mg. Not a single doctor believed me telling me it is all anxiety in my head. Terrible suicidal urges. Got voluntary hospitalised. Acknoledged adverse reaction, put me off cold turkey. Instalated mirtazapine to block the reaction of trazadone. 5 weeks on mirtazapine.acathisia worsened, suicidal, homicidal urges. Nobody believed. Finally they stopped mirtazapine cold turkey. My heighest dose of trazadone was 200 mg, of mirtazapine 30 mg. Since the c/t, suicidal, acathisia continuing.

tried promethazine for sleep. Tried atarax. Currently taking klonopin for 10 days. Good for sleep, but my condition worsening. Unable to tell if it is klonopin or a bad wave.

In the former hospital i took twice gabapentin. It should be all my medication.

i was offered promethazin for sleep 25 mg and also small amount of quetiapine. Both are antipsychotics, even if ptomethszin very weak. Terribly afraid.

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Hi Wolfhound,

Thank you so much for your warm and compassionate words. I decided not to continue here any more, especially I am going through a really extreme depression that can't be tolerated. But I've read your post and wanted to reply. You are from Czech republic as I can see, I am - from Russia, used to be neighbors. I don't want to sound discouraging for other people here but I lost hope. I don't know where to turn to. I've read some of Dr.Healy articles and now it's absolutely clear for me, that I have what is called "tardive dysthymia", and prognosis is really pessimistic. I was surprised to learn that the meds there are the same. Your history with psych drugs is pretty recent, that a good factor for you, a high chance that your brain hasn't been damaged so drastically as mine. I am so drained that all I want that my consciousness would turn off to give me some respite. Wish you all the best.

2005-2011 - Cymbalta (40 mg)
2011, summer - started tapering skipping days, symptoms began in August-September
March 2012 - stopped cymbalta, symptoms got unbearable right away
April - May 2012 - started on Prozac(10-20mg) to ease the symptoms, stopped in 4 weeks
The rest of the year continued to suffer tremendously, spiraling down, acquiring more and more symptoms.

Tried different anternative modalities: acupuncture, supplements, hyperbaric oxygenation, even medical marijuana

2013 - 3 hospitalizations (January, April and July), had gone through a partial hospitalization program, undergone ECT (31 sessions)

April 2013 - started a combination of drugs - Remeron (30mg), Klonopin, Buspar, Risperdal (don't remember dosages)

August 2013 - returned to Cymbalta (60mg)

October - December 2013 - tapered down Risperdal, Buspar, Klonopin

January - present - trying to get off of Cymbalta and Remeron - unsuccessfully (now down to 7.5mg of each)

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Rhi, as time goes by, I think more and more about your advice to reinstate. I have been very reluctant to do so but no it's gotten so horrible that I have no other choice. I think I am in acute withdrawal from tapering still active meds on top of going on "tardive dysthymia" from the first round of discontinuation of long term Cymbalta. You mentioned both Cymbalta and Remeron. Did you mean both at once, or in sequential order. I realize nobody knows for sure how to do that rightly but what's your opinion? I'd appreciate it. Karma, I came across your postings about T3 and reverse T3. I am taking Armour thyroid that is natural and contains all thyroid hormones. I have a high level of TPO antibodies. Do you know about any therapy to affect thyroid autoimmunity. One psych told me that until I get rid of autoimmune disease my depression wouldn't lift.

2005-2011 - Cymbalta (40 mg)
2011, summer - started tapering skipping days, symptoms began in August-September
March 2012 - stopped cymbalta, symptoms got unbearable right away
April - May 2012 - started on Prozac(10-20mg) to ease the symptoms, stopped in 4 weeks
The rest of the year continued to suffer tremendously, spiraling down, acquiring more and more symptoms.

Tried different anternative modalities: acupuncture, supplements, hyperbaric oxygenation, even medical marijuana

2013 - 3 hospitalizations (January, April and July), had gone through a partial hospitalization program, undergone ECT (31 sessions)

April 2013 - started a combination of drugs - Remeron (30mg), Klonopin, Buspar, Risperdal (don't remember dosages)

August 2013 - returned to Cymbalta (60mg)

October - December 2013 - tapered down Risperdal, Buspar, Klonopin

January - present - trying to get off of Cymbalta and Remeron - unsuccessfully (now down to 7.5mg of each)

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Jane I suggested those because according to your sig line, it sounds like you rapidly quit taking Risperdal, Buspar and Klonopin, all much too fast, October through December of 2013. Then it sounds like you started tapering Cymbalta and Remeron in January and you quickly got down to 7.5 mg of each, also way too fast.

 

I don't really think at this point reinstating those is going to help you much, at least not the way you want it to, but that's the only place that I can see where maybe reinstating something might possibly make a little sense.

 

Please read all the rest of what I wrote. The core of my advice is that you need to NOT be changing meds, and that I don't know how to help you given that you're in active withdrawal from five medications at the same time, plus the history of ECT, which is something I have no experience with. It sounds like Alto has already given you the name of a physician who might be able to help you. I would highly recommend you contact this person.

 

Even if you do choose to reinstate a bit of the meds you've been cutting much too fast, I do not expect you to feel better any time soon. My expectation is that given the history you've described you're in for some suffering for quite a while. 

 

I'm so sorry--I know your suffering is intense. I've been there. As far as I know there is nothing that will fix it except for time and careful self-care and giving your nervous system a break--no more changing meds, no more ECT, all that stuff you've tried even though we told you it wouldn't help, and as you have seen, it didn't help.

 

I'd highly recommend you contact the doctor Alto told you about.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

Oct 2022       4.5 mg Lamictal    (off Celexa, off Xanax)   0.95 Valium    Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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Janek,

I´ve sent you a PM. You can contact me to chat, if you feel like it, if you feel that a little chat can help you a little.

I am no expert on meds or on tapering and reinstating, so can´t comment on it.

If you have a contact to a knowledgeable doctor, my humble advice would be - please try him/her!I would be over the moon if there was such a doctor in my country!

Hugs

Wolfhound

Put on trazadone for 8 weeks. Psychic akathisia started on 100 mg. Not a single doctor believed me telling me it is all anxiety in my head. Terrible suicidal urges. Got voluntary hospitalised. Acknoledged adverse reaction, put me off cold turkey. Instalated mirtazapine to block the reaction of trazadone. 5 weeks on mirtazapine.acathisia worsened, suicidal, homicidal urges. Nobody believed. Finally they stopped mirtazapine cold turkey. My heighest dose of trazadone was 200 mg, of mirtazapine 30 mg. Since the c/t, suicidal, acathisia continuing.

tried promethazine for sleep. Tried atarax. Currently taking klonopin for 10 days. Good for sleep, but my condition worsening. Unable to tell if it is klonopin or a bad wave.

In the former hospital i took twice gabapentin. It should be all my medication.

i was offered promethazin for sleep 25 mg and also small amount of quetiapine. Both are antipsychotics, even if ptomethszin very weak. Terribly afraid.

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And I had been on benzo for 8-9 ms (long enough), finished about 4ms ago, could it still be a part of my withdrawal?

Oh wow - you have endured  a lot. I can tell you benzo wd is a b****. It may be possible - but I really feel Alto is dead on. What your brain has gone through has shaken ya up - can you hold without changing anything for a time?

I'M A WEANER!  :D 
atavan PRN ,Paxil approx 20 yrs ago for major depression
Switched to Klonopin PRN through to current
Paxil wore out
Changed to Effexor 
Depakote added
enormous weight gain - flat affect - led to depression - dropped depakote
Dropped Effexor, changed to Paxil 
PDoc added mixed salts amphetamines for ADHD - took for 2 yrs - was ok at first but had to cut as symptoms too intense -  then the crash was too much. STOPPED
Vyvanse started in 2013 (APRIL) - more smooth than IR amphetamine tabs---Have not used vyvanse daily in full amt since May 2013 

Paxil CT withdrawal 10/2012  :wacko:  Klonopin CT WD

Switched Klonopin to Xanax prn  - too strong

WD CT from XANAX after taking for a while - it was awful but can be done if you hold on!

Back to Klonopin PRN - working very hard to avoid taking it at all. 

Effexor 37.5 started 02/2013, 75mg by 03/2013, 150mg by 05/2012 (approx)  :blush:

Effexor 150mg 3/10/2014 Microtaper -3beads  :unsure:

3/11/2014-4beads ,3/12/14 - 5, 3/13/14 -6, 3/15/14 - 7, 3/18 - 8, 3/22 - 10, 3/24 - 12, 4/6 - 13, 4/7 - 14, 4/11 - 16 - on 4/19 ran out of brand took generic. Bad move. Back on brand on 4/20 and updosed 2 beads. 5/1 - 15, 5/6 - 16, 5/9 -17, 55/10 -17, 5/15 -18, 5/21 -19, 5/24 -20, 6/3 - 21, 6/6 -23, 6/13 -24,6/19- 25, 6/21 -26, 6/25 -27

6/28 -28, 6/29 -30, 7/3 -34, 7/8 -35, 7/17 -36, 7/30 -41,7/31 -42, 8/2 -43, 8/3 -44, 8/5 -45, 8/14 -48, 8/26-50, 9/24 -53, 10/24 -55, 12/1 -57, (lost the tally sheet, thus taper info for some of it), 4/19-63, 4/26-64, 4/30-65 Switched to wt reduction - now @ -.068, 7/14 -.070, August 2015 -.074, between Sept & October 10 -.077, Nov. -.078(feeling great), -.090 as of 1/10/16, down to  -.101 since January 2016 (it is now 6/24/16), -.105 as of 8/13/16
 
 

Ladies, please don't underestimate the possibility of perimenopause. The symptoms can be similar to, may intensify & in some cases mimic protracted w/d from ssri's & benzo's. 

 

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That's the thing - I can't! I am barely alive b/c my husband hid all the meds and I don't have an access to them (sorry for details). I stayed stoically without meds for over a year, then was hospitalized and despite my resistance was put on the drugs I listed. Then, unfortunately for me, I got detached from the forums and blogs.  You can understand that if you are suffering unbearably, your mind can't function properly, you are in a perpetuating search of anything that could make you at least a little bit better. I do agree that I have been tapering too fast but until the latest reduction it was kind of steady (awful but I was able to sleep), then at some point I probably crossed a dangerous line. Had an apnt today with my current psych. Tried really hard to explain about withdrawal. No understanding. What I really think is: I got my receptors damaged while taking Cymbalta and during the "first" withdrawal that I haven't recovered from (the hospital doctors and the staff on the partial hospitalization program I attended after the discharge, were slowly convincing me that I have a depression relapse). Now I realize that I really fit a definition of "tardive dysphoria", and then I got an acute withdrawal from the second round of tapering cymbalta too fast along with Remeron. Despite all my efforts and papers that I brought to the apnt about effects of withdrawal a doctor continued to insist that I need to switch to Prozac, not for the purpose of tapering but for depression treatment. Frustrated beyond imaginable.

2005-2011 - Cymbalta (40 mg)
2011, summer - started tapering skipping days, symptoms began in August-September
March 2012 - stopped cymbalta, symptoms got unbearable right away
April - May 2012 - started on Prozac(10-20mg) to ease the symptoms, stopped in 4 weeks
The rest of the year continued to suffer tremendously, spiraling down, acquiring more and more symptoms.

Tried different anternative modalities: acupuncture, supplements, hyperbaric oxygenation, even medical marijuana

2013 - 3 hospitalizations (January, April and July), had gone through a partial hospitalization program, undergone ECT (31 sessions)

April 2013 - started a combination of drugs - Remeron (30mg), Klonopin, Buspar, Risperdal (don't remember dosages)

August 2013 - returned to Cymbalta (60mg)

October - December 2013 - tapered down Risperdal, Buspar, Klonopin

January - present - trying to get off of Cymbalta and Remeron - unsuccessfully (now down to 7.5mg of each)

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I just remembered - I completely left out the reason behind the fast tapering - a rapid deterioration of my chronic conditions: asthma (Inhaler stopped working), thyroid (med became not effective any more), severe GI symptoms. I attributed all that to the drugs I was taking side effects (especially indigestion and GI disturbance). Also, my psych at the time suggested to try MAOI Nardil and for that I should have rid off all other psych meds.

2005-2011 - Cymbalta (40 mg)
2011, summer - started tapering skipping days, symptoms began in August-September
March 2012 - stopped cymbalta, symptoms got unbearable right away
April - May 2012 - started on Prozac(10-20mg) to ease the symptoms, stopped in 4 weeks
The rest of the year continued to suffer tremendously, spiraling down, acquiring more and more symptoms.

Tried different anternative modalities: acupuncture, supplements, hyperbaric oxygenation, even medical marijuana

2013 - 3 hospitalizations (January, April and July), had gone through a partial hospitalization program, undergone ECT (31 sessions)

April 2013 - started a combination of drugs - Remeron (30mg), Klonopin, Buspar, Risperdal (don't remember dosages)

August 2013 - returned to Cymbalta (60mg)

October - December 2013 - tapered down Risperdal, Buspar, Klonopin

January - present - trying to get off of Cymbalta and Remeron - unsuccessfully (now down to 7.5mg of each)

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Hi Jane,

Mirtazapine/Remeron and z-drugs i know of. One thing that i think you need to know, is that Lunesta absolutely is exactly the same as an benzodiazapine. It acts on your benzo receptors. Taking Lunesta intermittently is very disruptive on sleep. Its short acting, which, although might put you to sleep, will give you poor and short sleep. It will also hinder you from recovering from your prior benzo use. It might/will cause daytime benzo wd. Also will make your sleep the days you are not taking it much worse. 

Find the smallest dose that gives any improvement on sleep and stick with it. Same every night. Stabilize. (Do not take any psych drugs/benzo on a as needed basis. Thats terrible for your CNS.) Eventually you need to taper Lunesta.

 

Mirtazapine is known to cause GI-isues. Did so to me. It got better on lower dose.

 

It is my opinion as well that adding more/other psych meds now is not advisable. The only thing you might try, if not stabilizing is to increase one of Cymbalata or Remeron a little bit. If sleep is your worst withdrawal problem i would suggest Remeron as insomnia is a big wd symptom of Remeron wd. If you decide to up your dose do so only slightly, maybe 2.5 mgs and evaluate for at least two weeks. It takes time.

 

Use of all non pharmacological sleep aids and stress management tools is very important when withdrawing from Remeron.

 

Healthy and regular diet is important, it lowers stress.

2010: Mirtazapine 30mg followed by Zopiclone 7.5 mg for sleep post surgery due to pain.
2012-> Tapering Mirtazapine and Zopiclone at different rates unsuccessfully.
2013: Hospitalized 10 days due to complete Insomnia. Forced back up to 45mg Mirtazapine, 7.5 mg Zopiclone and also Theralene 1 ml.
2013-03: Lab showed Vitamin D deficient. Found the vitamin d and insomnia connection. Supplementing vitamin d. Sleep improved by 1-2 hours
2013-04: Dropped mirtazapine to 30 due to severe side effects. Quit Theralene. Zopiclone 7.5.
2013-05 - 2013-11: Mirtazapine taper monthly 25 20 15 11 8 4 2.5 mg
2013-12 Holding M at 2.5. Need to taper Zopiclone due to daytime nausea and vomiting. Taper zopiclone 1/4 red every 5 d. Last Z 2013-12-19
2013-12-31 M:2.5. Reinstated Zopiclone 3.75 due to Insomnia
2014-01-06 M:2.5. Taper Z 1.9 ... 2014-01-14 M:2.5. Z 1 mg.
Jumped of Zopiclone 01-20. Jumped mirtazapine 02-16.

Theralene: 10mg 02-09. 8mg 03-09. 5mg 03-15. 4mg 03-24. 3mg 04-08. Jumped 04-21.
Zopiclone free for 251 days. Mirtazapine free for 224 days.

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Jane, Can you go to the dr. That Alto recommended?

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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  • Administrator

Let me see, Jane, you found a doctor who understands what you're talking about when you say "tardive dysphoria" and you decided to see another doctor who does not? (Neither is the doctor I recommended, by the way.)

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Thank you, Wulfgar. Believe me that decision to take Lunesta was made as a last resort. Nothing else would put me to sleep for at least a couple of hours. It happened to me when I was hit by cymbalta withdrawal first time. I tried everything possible (starting, of course, with natural remedies) - the level of anxiety (caused by cortisol, or over stimulation from withdrawal) was and so high that I stayed without any sleep at all for weeks and months. the same as with you - my first hospitalization occurred b/c of persistent insomnia. As I can see from you drug history, you were taking Zopiclone. It's almost the same. I am being in limbo here. If I don't take a sleeping pill I'd stay up all night long, otherwise - am getting harm and addiction to yet another psych substance. When you were tapering mirtazapine, what dose was a turning point (after which you felt withdrawal symptoms and how soon)? The doctors say that for this particular med the smaller dose is the better it acts for sleep. Do you think it's true?

2005-2011 - Cymbalta (40 mg)
2011, summer - started tapering skipping days, symptoms began in August-September
March 2012 - stopped cymbalta, symptoms got unbearable right away
April - May 2012 - started on Prozac(10-20mg) to ease the symptoms, stopped in 4 weeks
The rest of the year continued to suffer tremendously, spiraling down, acquiring more and more symptoms.

Tried different anternative modalities: acupuncture, supplements, hyperbaric oxygenation, even medical marijuana

2013 - 3 hospitalizations (January, April and July), had gone through a partial hospitalization program, undergone ECT (31 sessions)

April 2013 - started a combination of drugs - Remeron (30mg), Klonopin, Buspar, Risperdal (don't remember dosages)

August 2013 - returned to Cymbalta (60mg)

October - December 2013 - tapered down Risperdal, Buspar, Klonopin

January - present - trying to get off of Cymbalta and Remeron - unsuccessfully (now down to 7.5mg of each)

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I should give some clarification here. The doctor I've found and seeming to be aware of withdrawal problems has left for a month. BTW, he doesn't accept new patients which is the case with almost every psych who could be of value, but I left a message for him and he replied. So I made an apnt but I wouldn't be able to see him till the end of April. I am in a such of disastrous condition that in the meantime I need to see somebody, especially given that that doctor with an expertise sounded lost and pessimistic. The doctor I went to yesterday suggested that I go to the hospital and they will put me on Prozac (which is the only option she insists on) and quickly titrate the dose up while monitoring for any side effects that couldn't be done at home. Of course, I declined. I've been at the hospitals and know what to expect - the result of their treatment is my present terrible situation. As for the doctor you recommended, I can't get hold of him - he doesn't reply to my messages.

2005-2011 - Cymbalta (40 mg)
2011, summer - started tapering skipping days, symptoms began in August-September
March 2012 - stopped cymbalta, symptoms got unbearable right away
April - May 2012 - started on Prozac(10-20mg) to ease the symptoms, stopped in 4 weeks
The rest of the year continued to suffer tremendously, spiraling down, acquiring more and more symptoms.

Tried different anternative modalities: acupuncture, supplements, hyperbaric oxygenation, even medical marijuana

2013 - 3 hospitalizations (January, April and July), had gone through a partial hospitalization program, undergone ECT (31 sessions)

April 2013 - started a combination of drugs - Remeron (30mg), Klonopin, Buspar, Risperdal (don't remember dosages)

August 2013 - returned to Cymbalta (60mg)

October - December 2013 - tapered down Risperdal, Buspar, Klonopin

January - present - trying to get off of Cymbalta and Remeron - unsuccessfully (now down to 7.5mg of each)

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  • Administrator

Do you think being in a perpetual state of emergency affects your judgment, Jane? Making you susceptible to promises of quick fixes and avoiding anything that seems more gradual or tentative?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Yes, I agree that my judgement is compromised. But I also think that the intensity of suffering is so beyond the tolerable level that it makes me jump on any opportunity possible. And I don't believe in quick fixes, just trying to find a way how to make it a little more bearable as anyone else here. That's why people are looking for the doctors who could help; exchange and share their experiences and info here. The very attempt to participate on the forum is an evidence that nobody just reconciles with the fact that nothing could be done to ease a constant torture.

2005-2011 - Cymbalta (40 mg)
2011, summer - started tapering skipping days, symptoms began in August-September
March 2012 - stopped cymbalta, symptoms got unbearable right away
April - May 2012 - started on Prozac(10-20mg) to ease the symptoms, stopped in 4 weeks
The rest of the year continued to suffer tremendously, spiraling down, acquiring more and more symptoms.

Tried different anternative modalities: acupuncture, supplements, hyperbaric oxygenation, even medical marijuana

2013 - 3 hospitalizations (January, April and July), had gone through a partial hospitalization program, undergone ECT (31 sessions)

April 2013 - started a combination of drugs - Remeron (30mg), Klonopin, Buspar, Risperdal (don't remember dosages)

August 2013 - returned to Cymbalta (60mg)

October - December 2013 - tapered down Risperdal, Buspar, Klonopin

January - present - trying to get off of Cymbalta and Remeron - unsuccessfully (now down to 7.5mg of each)

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I got withdrawal from every taper. For me the biggest withdrawal symptoms where insomnia, to much adrenline, anxiety, dizziness. Had lots of others also though. It took about a week in to each drop before my sleep got real bad. Sleep got better again about a month after a cut. When i cut to much sleep did not get better. Had to updose to get stable when i tapered to fast. For me the GI trouble where more a side effect than withdrawal. I had big GI problems till i got to about 20-25 mg i think. Hard to remember exact dose as the GI problems got better for each drop. When below 15 i where definitely better. Please notice that Mirtazapine/Remeron is about double the strength for girls due to longer half life. Doctors does not know this.

 

I know about having to take Zopiclone to get any sleep at all. Been there. The choice where correct for me then. As you already have a benzo history i do not think that taking Lunesta every other day will save you. Your benzo receptors are already down regulated somewhat again. Thats why your sleep gets worse days after you've taken it. I still suggest that you take a small dose every night to get your sleep pattern more stable. I found that taking half a pill every night gave me better sleep than taking a whole pill on and off.

 

As for which dose mirtazapine is best for sleep, i do not think there are a specific one. The mechanism of mirtazapine and sleep is through the antihistaminic and adrenergic antagonism. Remeron also lowers cortisol production in a linear dose dependent way. There seems to be some who believe that mirtazapines effect on serotonin receptors is reduced quicker than the antihistaminic and adrenergic but i don't believe that.

 

When you taper to fast the your body cannot keep up with the extra effect of epinephrine and rising cortisol levels. You get insomnia and anxiety. Insomnia and anxiety increases epinephrine and cortisol more. You are then inside a loop very hard to get out of. Lack of sleep also lowers the amount of healing done and keeps you inside this loop. I got hospitalized from being inside this stress-hormone/insomnia loop madness myself, the same as you.

2010: Mirtazapine 30mg followed by Zopiclone 7.5 mg for sleep post surgery due to pain.
2012-> Tapering Mirtazapine and Zopiclone at different rates unsuccessfully.
2013: Hospitalized 10 days due to complete Insomnia. Forced back up to 45mg Mirtazapine, 7.5 mg Zopiclone and also Theralene 1 ml.
2013-03: Lab showed Vitamin D deficient. Found the vitamin d and insomnia connection. Supplementing vitamin d. Sleep improved by 1-2 hours
2013-04: Dropped mirtazapine to 30 due to severe side effects. Quit Theralene. Zopiclone 7.5.
2013-05 - 2013-11: Mirtazapine taper monthly 25 20 15 11 8 4 2.5 mg
2013-12 Holding M at 2.5. Need to taper Zopiclone due to daytime nausea and vomiting. Taper zopiclone 1/4 red every 5 d. Last Z 2013-12-19
2013-12-31 M:2.5. Reinstated Zopiclone 3.75 due to Insomnia
2014-01-06 M:2.5. Taper Z 1.9 ... 2014-01-14 M:2.5. Z 1 mg.
Jumped of Zopiclone 01-20. Jumped mirtazapine 02-16.

Theralene: 10mg 02-09. 8mg 03-09. 5mg 03-15. 4mg 03-24. 3mg 04-08. Jumped 04-21.
Zopiclone free for 251 days. Mirtazapine free for 224 days.

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  • Administrator

Just about everyone here has experienced what seemed like unendurable torture, jane. Most have figured out how to patiently cope with their symptoms to let their nervous systems heal.

 

You have endured what you say is unendurable for 2 years that I know of, although from time to time you've made it worse by grabbing at a quick fix. What does this tell you?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Thank you, Wulfgar. Many good points. It doesn't work for me though to take half a dose of Lunesta. I've tried that and ended up taking another half in an hour or more and sometimes there was no effect at all. What's happening with me now looks exactly the same as the "first" time - insomnia is so extreme that doesn't respond to anything at all. And you are right - It's a vicious cycle.  Last night I took a half of Lunesta - didn't work, then the remaining part - another 2 sleepless hours, then dozed off for a couple of hours (semi-awaken), then a jolt - and today I am in a hell. So if you waited for about a ms on each dose until you decide whether to go back or not, if I follow your pattern: I lost sleep abruptly this time about 4 weeks ago, and I can't connect the dots - was it a delayed effect of dose reduction and which med I should link it to - cymbalta, remeron or both. I also was hospitalized a year ago twice for the complete insomnia. Did they help you to regain sleep? I am facing a tough dilemma: since it's been a ms already and getting worse, should I up a dose a little bit and wait for awhile or just not to do anything. The first round of severe insomnia lasted for 1.5 years! I was off any drugs at all for over a year and insomnia didn't subside, then after a 6-th or 7-th ECT session I started to sleep again. It didn't have any effect though on my depression and other symptoms. I "enjoyed" sleeping naturally for half a year and crashed again. I am scared that this time it'll never end If I don't change anything. I didn't have a slightest idea that remeron could be as cruel in discontinuation process as SSRI/SNRIs. I'd never have undertaken this approach to wean both (approved by a psychiatrist). I agree with you about GI side effects. It was one of the reasons why I became so eager to get rid of those drugs. Anyway, I need to find something to be able to sleep. Otherwise...

2005-2011 - Cymbalta (40 mg)
2011, summer - started tapering skipping days, symptoms began in August-September
March 2012 - stopped cymbalta, symptoms got unbearable right away
April - May 2012 - started on Prozac(10-20mg) to ease the symptoms, stopped in 4 weeks
The rest of the year continued to suffer tremendously, spiraling down, acquiring more and more symptoms.

Tried different anternative modalities: acupuncture, supplements, hyperbaric oxygenation, even medical marijuana

2013 - 3 hospitalizations (January, April and July), had gone through a partial hospitalization program, undergone ECT (31 sessions)

April 2013 - started a combination of drugs - Remeron (30mg), Klonopin, Buspar, Risperdal (don't remember dosages)

August 2013 - returned to Cymbalta (60mg)

October - December 2013 - tapered down Risperdal, Buspar, Klonopin

January - present - trying to get off of Cymbalta and Remeron - unsuccessfully (now down to 7.5mg of each)

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Hi Jane,

 

I appreciate the torture of sleep deprivation having experienced it myself - often and currently.   The only thing I can say to you is that the more desperate I got to determine why and find a cure the worse it became.  I had to learn to detach from my sleeplessness.  In part, I did this by focussing on relaxing my mind and my body.  I found if I spent the night relaxing I would usually dose in and out.   This was enough to get through the next day.   

 

If I TRIED to sleep, fought with my sleeplessness, anguished etc I arose the next morning an absolute mess.   I strongly recommend you invest a lot less in your insomnia and go gently on your nervous system

 

Dalsaan

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Jane,

 

I appreciate the torture of sleep deprivation having experienced it myself - often and currently.   The only thing I can say to you is that the more desperate I got to determine why and find a cure the worse it became.  I had to learn to detach from my sleeplessness.  In part, I did this by focussing on relaxing my mind and my body.  I found if I spent the night relaxing I would usually dose in and out.   This was enough to get through the next day.   

 

If I TRIED to sleep, fought with my sleeplessness, anguished etc I arose the next morning an absolute mess.   I strongly recommend you invest a lot less in your insomnia and go gently on your nervous system

 

Dalsaan

I agree with Dalsaan, I also have trouble sleeping and can go days without. My very best nights I have 4 hours. 

'normal' for me is 2-3.  Relaxing in bed and thinking about positive things, remembering happy times and 

focussing on relaxation is much better than trying to get to sleep. I don't even think about going to sleep when

I get into bed, just about resting my body and eventually sleep follows even if it is for a very short time. 

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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Hi Janek,

 

Have you tried exercise and eating a well balanced diet to help you heal? Hang in there, don't loose hope. :)

DRUG HISTORY:

 

November 2013- Zoloft, ( Bad reaction).

January 2014 - March 2014 Seroquel.( Quit Cold Turkey).

January2014- Mirtazapine, I was taking 15mg at one stage, reduced to 7.5mg, Pgad reactions to Mirtazapine. Doctor kept increasing it to 37.5mg, until July 2014. No improvement, experiencing panic attacks, on 37.5 mg. I had enough by October 2014. Began tapering.

October 2014- Started tapering Mirtazapine from 37.5mg.

September 2015- Down to 4mg of Mirtazapine. Crashed.

September 16th- Up dosed to 5mg. Held this dose for almost 5 months. Stabilised.

February 2016- Began tapering again. From 5mg to 4.5mg of Mirtazapine. (Rocking the boat, again)! Lol. :(

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