success ☼ Bayboy: Mirtazapine withdrawal

[Rhiannon]

yikes Wulfgar I'm pretty sure if something's pouring out your ears when you do squats, that's not a good thing...

 

;-)

 

(kidding!)

[wulfgar]

:-)

[Bayboy]

Are there any topics started on here in regards to healing while we are tapering.  Is it happening, theoretically, or only when we are entirely off these medications.  Are our brains learning to function independently of the med as we taper down to lower doses?

[Altostrata]

Yes, your nervous system is adapting. That is the purpose of the gradual taper, to allow time for your nervous system to get used to the absence of the drug.

[Bayboy]

Still stabilizing, feel much better after reinstating 5 days ago, am fully functional with some cortisol surges throughout day and before bed.  My Dr. is surprisingly on board with what is happening and actually agrees it is withdrawal and not a return of symptoms.  Relief.  A liquid compound is being made at the equivalent of 7.5 mg and once I am 100% stable, a slow taper can begin using this method.  

 

Dalsaan -  I remember reading a very good story of an extremely slow taper that prevented a lot of the horrible effects.  It had a slow titration method of dividing the final 0.1 ml dose into 7 weeks with skipping nights progressively until the end.  But of course, there is no follow up as to what the final result was, seems like a very conservative approach though.  

[dalsaan]

Thanks Badboy, I am pondering what the final jump might look like.  I think it may be a while yet.   Seems like the further down I get the more conservative I have to be.

 

Good to hear you are fully functional and your Dr is on board.   That helps a lot

 

Dalsaan

[Altostrata]

Have you tried fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/
 

[Bayboy]

yes, always used fish oil, upped the dose during withdrawal.  Have not had any luck with the Mag, Epsom salt baths work okay but the powder in was ineffective.  

[Bayboy]

Ok...tired of searching, I have a very positive mindset but can someone on here please tell me if they know or have heard of people successfully getting off mirtazapine using a slow taper!!!

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Would you like to define 'successful' and 'slow taper'?

 

You might want to put your drug history in a signature so we know where you are at in all of this. Instructions are in this topic:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

You'll have to read a bit for all of it just as you may have to read a great many more threads to get the info you seek on 'success'. Better to see the broad picture of drugs, not specifically 'your' drug.

[Altostrata]

Yes, people have successfully tapered off all psychiatric drugs.

[Bayboy]

Yes, thanks Alto, was feeling a little down when I wrote that, of course people have tapered and have been successful.  I have switched my focus to Cortisol and Adrenalin and their significance in withdrawal.  I think this is the key, it is this system that is heavily affected by these meds and how it cannot work properly after either a rapid or abrupt cessation of the drug.  I know you have written about this very subject and I am very interested in this.  I'm sure if cortisol can be controlled and regulated back to normal levels, than withdrawal reactions can be minimized.  

[Petunia]

Hi Bayboy,

Please would you put a short version of your drug and withdrawal history in your signature, it helps members to understand your situation when posting, here is how you do it:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

You are right about cortisol being a key factor in withdrawal, some people struggle with this, often in the mornings, it seems that high levels of cortisol or increased sensitivity to it is common when the nervous system become destabilized.  Many of us have tried various supplements to bring this back under control, there are several threads about it in the symptoms section.

 

Petu.

[Bayboy]

Just wondering if Seriphos is contraindicated with Mirt. May try it if it's safe. Thanks.

[Altostrata]

Use search to see our discussions about Seriphos.

[Bayboy]

Does anyone have any thoughts on Back to Life's tapering plan involving Zispin (Mirtazapine) and other SSRI's?  It involves alternating doses but Mirtazapine is slightly different in its mechanism of action.  Just looking for opinions on it.  It takes 7.5 mg to 0 mg in 14 weeks.

[Karma]

We do not recommend alternating doses to come off of any of these drugs.  It doesn't keep a consistent amount of the drug in your system and confuses your nervous system.  It is far better to reduce by small percentages and to hold for a certain amount of time until one is stable enough to handle the next decrement.

 

Karma

[wulfgar]

I would stay away from alternating doses of mirtazapine (probably as bad with any other drug as well). Just missing a single dose made me feel big time crappy for days afterwards!

[n1gm4]

Still stabilizing, feel much better after reinstating 5 days ago, am fully functional with some cortisol surges throughout day and before bed.  My Dr. is surprisingly on board with what is happening and actually agrees it is withdrawal and not a return of symptoms.  Relief.  A liquid compound is being made at the equivalent of 7.5 mg and once I am 100% stable, a slow taper can begin using this method.  

 

Dalsaan -  I remember reading a very good story of an extremely slow taper that prevented a lot of the horrible effects.  It had a slow titration method of dividing the final 0.1 ml dose into 7 weeks with skipping nights progressively until the end.  But of course, there is no follow up as to what the final result was, seems like a very conservative approach though.  

Hi Bayboy, what is this liquid compound you're talking? Il live in Canada, Quebec and I wonder if it is available here.

[Altostrata]

n1gm4, I moved your post here to start your Introductions topic http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6207-n1gm4-difficulty-going-off-mirtazapine/

 

That way, you can track your progress in your own Intro topic.

[Bayboy]

Update, 10 days into reinstatement and I have noticed that I felt well and the heavy sedation is starting to wear off which is a good thing, however, I thought the cortisol/adrenalin dumps were starting to diminish completely, but last night I got a rude awakening around 2:30 am, there it was, the rest of the sleep was broken and poor.  So, it was only one night but I have to monitor this, I had a craving for bad carbs before bed and ate a lot, also worked out at 6 pm.  These could have contributed to the problem, especially the former.  Just wondering what to do, if this continues, I'm not going down that road again.  

[dalsaan]

I think avoid all the carbs and exercise. See how that goes. Try not to invest too much in what might happen. I know it's easier said than done but it will help. Worrying causes stress which exacerbates withdrawal. This becomes a self fulfilling prophecy where your worrying generates that which you were concerned about. You're going well and we are here to cheer you on

 

Dalsaan

[wulfgar]

The antihistamine part of mirtazapine caused bad cravings for me 30 min to an hour post taking it. Try eating dinner later and save some calorie allowance for a bed time snack. I usually could stem my cravings by eating two brown bread sandwiches with butter and cheese plus a glass of milk. 

If i ate to much id get worse sleep to.

About the cortisol/adrenaline wakings. I have had those nightly all through my time on mirtazapine and it is continuing when i am off. The strength of it changed a lot in an unpredictable manner for me. I always wakes up still, fortunately the adrenaline thing is quiet low mostly, and i can almost always go back to sleep. I have had on full night though, so i am hopeful.

Waking up nightly is a common thing even for people not taking these drugs. I think something sets this behavior of in people and then it is hard to unlearn it. Modern medicine is to horribly bad and can not figure out why this is. 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Many people find that their body just can't tolerate 'working out' or any strenuous exercise in WD. It seems to make them feel worse. I wouldn't be so quick to discount it as a culprit too, especially since it was close to bedtime. Eating too much too close to bedtime keeps many body systems working hard and can keep you awake or give poor sleep. Especially if the carbs you consume cause your blood sugar to dip while you sleep. Your body will then wake you up so you can fix it. Alto uses whey protein isolate to help this. Lots of good tips in the Symptoms forum.

 

Managing sleep is a delicate balancing act not to be taken lightly. I'm suffering now for my mistakes. I am having to do on only 4-5 hrs a night and feeling constantly unwell and sleepy because I ignored that. Lying down during the day is not an option. Causes my body to get anxious and if I do nod off I get daymares.

[Bayboy]

i appreciate comments and suggestions.  The cortisol thing, I can deal with, but it seems when it is high as in last night and today after being very close to non-existent for the last 10 days, the Dep sets in, bleakness, dark thoughts…does this make sense.  I experienced that towards the end of the month off of Mirt and it drove me to reinstate.  I hate that feeling.  That feeling disappeared mostly after I reinstated so its frustrating that it has returned.  It has been with me all day.  I hoping it will improve after tonight, but if not, I may have to look at up dosing.  I want to stabilize for a month or more, not 10 days.

[dalsaan]

Badboy,

 

It's too early to start talking about up dosing. You are stepping into the 'take something to fix this' mentality. That's what got most of us here-have a symptom, take a pill (or more of a pill) and fix it. Your withdrawal is not going to be linear, symptoms will wax and wane. You need to monitor these without investing heavily in them. Hating them and stressing about their presence is investing in them and that, in itself, will upset your nervous system.

 

Most of us have had to learn how to manage our withdrawal symptoms, how to read where we are up to in terms of stability and how slow we need to go.

 

Having symptoms for a couple of days does not mean you are unstable and need to up dose. If it was me I would wait and see what happens over the next week. If my symptoms got worse and it was clear my nervous symptom wasn't coping I would consider a small up dose. The more you up dose, the more you have to withdraw from later. Only do that when you have to, not as a knee jerk reaction. Read up some more on the window/wave pattern of withdrawal and how to respond to symptoms.

 

We are with you on this, take care

 

D

[Bayboy]

Thanks Dalsaan…..agreed.  I have become obsessed with symptoms as many have before me.  I just wasn't ready yet to go back to feeling horrible after 10 days of relative normality.  I will stick it out and update as needed.  

[Bayboy]

I was relaxed…took 1 ml (7.5 mg) at bedtime…nothing happened….haven't slept at all, it seems that my body has now rejected it and its sedative effects which I need have worn off.  Unsure what to do next.

[dalsaan]

My mirtazapine ran out of sedative effects years ago and my sleep is crap so I hear you.   How are your other symptoms?

[Bayboy]

they are not too good today.  How did you know if you were stable if you weren't sleeping?

[Bayboy]

Also, is it normal after a reinstatement to get hit hard again after 10 days. I can understand the wave/window pattern during tapering but I haven't even begun yet. I have to stick it out at 7.5 mg, I don't think the sleep thing would get better at higher doses, does anyone have any thoughts.....I'm so deflated.

[Bayboy]

My liquid is a almond based compound and I just started using it.

[dalsaan]

sleep is my key indicator but its the kind of insomnia that tells me i'm not stable.  if its total insomnia, ongoing, i cant nap even if exhausted and I feel wired then i'm unstable.  there are other times when i get very little or no sleep but i'm not wired, vigilant, too alert.  That's just a wave and the quality of my sleep in that phase will vary from night to night.   This may not be the same for you and you will have to listen to your body and work it out.   It could be that another updose would help - like to 9 or 10 but I would wait and see for another couple of days yet.  Your instability could still be related back to your CT in March.

 

I understand it is deflating.   I use to hate people that said patience is a virtual (still do if I'm honest), but I get it in relation to this stuff.   We are a bunch of waiters, watchers and deciders.

 

D

[Bayboy]

Oh...it's the wired, vigilant, hyper alert kind for sure

[Bayboy]

Ok, this is bothering me, I messed up last night on top of everything else, please avoid the obvious replies, I know it was a mistake and could have possibly made things worse but in desperation after the liquid did nothing, I took 7.5 mg of dry pill I had left over, I just wanted to SLEEP so bad. I essentially doubled the dose. Arghhhh! This won't be repeated. I will stick with the liquid. I'm so p$&@ed with myself.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Please do not take this as an 'obvious reply'. One of the hardest things people just have to accept is that the drugs just don't work for them anymore and won't ever again work 'for sleep' like they used to. You just have to get past that and get down to the nitty ugly gritty of a slow safe taper.

 

I know how desperate for sleep you can get. I went through it too. But I took no drugs at all. I haven't even had an aspirin since Nov. CT all caffeine. I went from absence of sleep (had it for a couple of weeks I think) to now I get 4-5 hours solid every night now. Every night. Because I learned how to let my body rest. I had nightmares, intrusive thoughts' akisthisia, you name it. Repeated prayers in my head to stifle the thoughts. Had to keep shaking one foot because if I stopped, the akisthisia, an inner vibration, would start and I would start to lose it. But I made it through and am mostly functional. I crave more sleep but am so grateful for what I have. You will get to this place too if you can pick a dose, stick to it and monitor your symptoms.