☼ Miami1 Stabilizing on mirtazapine

[Miami1]

First dose feels uncomfortable but doesn't revv.

Second dose borderline revving.

 

Sleep is 4/5 average with occasionally zero sleep then following nite after zero back to 5/6 hrs

 

I understand the underlining Benzo . Although I never had it this bad when in paws.

 

My doctor is overseas he emailed me, I can go up to 2 mg but if that doesn't solve the issue, its not mirtz WD .

 

What are your thoughts about that and should going up to 2 mg be considered?

 

Thks

[Altostrata]

It sounds to me like the mirt is too activating. Does increasing the dose make any sense under those conditions?

[Miami1]

No.

Any suggestions ?

[Altostrata]

If I were you, I'd reduce the first round slightly.

[Miami1]

I had a genome test done and I'm a slow metabolizer .

Also would the 400 mg of magnesium be causing adverse effects ?

[Altostrata]

Do you feel bad after you take magnesium? If you were taking too much magnesium, you'd get cramps and diarrhea. It's more effective in divided doses, by the way.

 

"Poor metabolizer" does not mean anything, you need more detail. This does not affect your ability to decrease mirtazapine.

[Miami1]

Is my condition symptoms etc... The sign of not being able to stabilize or possibly too much of the med?

Am I most likely in rem withdrawal?

What options do I have if any besides waiting it through?

Are benzos the only meds that can relive this? Not that I want any specially if there's a degree of benzo WD going on.

Alto ,forgive all the redundant questions

[Miami1]

You mentioned the switch to liquid. I have been getting worse since I started on it.

Should I consider going back on pill?

[Altostrata]

People who have prolonged post-discontinuation syndrome, whether from benzos or other psych drugs, must be very patient to help their nervous systems heal. Please read some of the other Intro topics. Everyone has to figure out how to stay calm and cope with symptoms.

 

I know it's difficult, but you've been having this round of problems for less than a month. You just switched to the liquid form, you may need to adjust the dosage to see if you can find one that will help you.

 

There are no easy answers. We can't recommend any new drugs for you that will fix you up. I don't know if benzos will help or make you worse.

 

Please re-read this topic when you feel you need to ask a question you know has been answered before.

[Miami1]

Thks Alto , one more question :

Why do you think my condition improves slightly around 8 pm every night?

Thk u

[Altostrata]

That is a typical pattern in post-discontinuation syndrome. In general, the daytime stimulating hormones go down at night while the sleep cycle hormones increase.

[Miami1]

Last night I managed 4 hrs of sleep.,

Initially after falling asleep I woke up at midnight with a rush of anxiety.

Nausea and headache.

This morning feeling the same high anxiety headaches dizzy etc.....

 

Physicaly ill but will ride it through another day, thanking everyone for their support !

[Skyler]

You do need to go one day at a time, but cannot measure one day against the next to determine progress. Not sure what to say about your sleep.. I think 4 hours is good. I used to get an average of two, when I was 20 years younger and had insomnia.. guess sleep is in the eye of.. what is more important is how you feel during the day, if you are sleepy of what. I've learned to accommodate and now listen to news, etc. in a speaker I keep under my pillow. Fills those boring lonesome hours.

I understand the underlining Benzo . Although I never had it this bad when in paws.

What makes you say you are no longer in PAWs?

 

 

The sign of not being able to stabilize or possibly too much of the med?

 

What options do I have if any besides waiting it through?

 

Are benzos the only meds that can relive this? Not that I want any specially if there's a degree of benzo WD going on.

Alto ,forgive all the redundant questions

Sounds like PAWs, not an inability to stabilize on the rem. How much worse, %wise that is, have you been since you switched to the liquid? Have you started to migrate the doses yet? That is the only thing I can see that you can do.

 

Regarding rehab for in patient. I'd do a search of this forum, and also use Doc Google. I have read beaucoup horror stories about what rehab clinics can do. You might read Lexicon's intro thread. She was inpatient at a rehab they had her go CT off two ADs, 18 months on and she is still struggling.

 

If benzos are relieving the Sx to the extent you describe, it's probably because you are in PAWs and they are alleviating those Sx. You could try going back on a regular dose, but were this me, at this point, I'd stick it out.. you are 4 months in since you took the last regular dose?

 

How is the burning.. have you started to taper the Prevacid yet? Please put that in your sig line.

[Skyler]

error.. sorry folks

[Miami1]

daytime is the worst. Feeling like I can pass out at any moment with numerous other sxs.

[Skyler]

daytime is the worst. Feeling like I can pass out at any moment with numerous other sxs.

Sounds like it's cortisol at work. If you drink coffee or cola, or more than the occasional piece of chocolate, go caffeine free. When I was in the worst of benzo WD, doing so made a big difference. And I can see why you might not want to migrate the doses, less during the day to bump up the anxious feelings.

 

I realize you must be taking Prevacid for the nausea.. but from what I know of PIs, they are only truly helpful if you have some sort of a structural defect. My father had a severe hiatus hernia and PIs did help him, but most of the time I see them prescribed for complaints that are anxiety based, such as acid reflux. Since that diagnosis gained traction, the companies that make these, OT or script, have made beaucoup bucks.

 

I'm concerned because you are still looking mostly to medications to 'fix you up', when 6 months without any changes would be the best course. I held for a year to good effect, and am very glad I did so. I wonder if you are familiar with Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitiker. It would give you a fuller perspective of what we are all up against. http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Epidemic-Bullets-Psychiatric-Astonishing/dp/0307452425/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1398614914&sr=1-1&keywords=Anatomy+of+an+Epidemic

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Miami,

 

Skyler is giving you good advice. Adding benzos at this time would only delay the inevitable. You will have to do your best to let your body stabilize.

 

Alto suggested a 25% cut on the prevacid.

 

I read back through my thread from last year when I started destabilizing. I believe 2 things precipitated it: using vistaril and relaxing too deeply with meditation. My body rebelled and I went through a period of 'paradoxical relaxation response'. Fancy term for my body going into high alert and waking me up when it sensed I was relaxing into sleep. But it over-reacted and increased my cortisol too much and caused anxiety, shaking, inner vibrations. I could not lie down to attempt sleep or my agitation would increase. So I laid in bed propped up with pillows and used lots of stuff from the computer to try to relax. I would doze occasionally but managed to go on little sleep for a long time because I attempted to rest, not sleep. As near as I can tell it took me a little over a month to actually lie down and let sleep try to come. Id have to sit up as soon as the vibrations came but the night it finally happened was a victory. Sleep has to be wooed, not chased. I battled nightmares and neuro emotions the whole time. The fact that you were able to get 4 hrs. last night is HUGE.

 

You have to battle through this. Meds won't fix it, I'm afraid.

 

Once sleep is broken it takes a long time to right itself. I go to bed and lie down between 10 and 11. Last 2 nights woke up at 5:30 because no pee break. Don't feel rested tho. But I feel a very minute change in this last week. I routinely take one 200 mg tab mag glycinate about 1 hr before bed.

 

I know this can be lived through because I and a whole host of others have done it.

 

Might be a good idea to read your whole thread once a day. There's a lot of good support in it for you and it would help. You may find things you missed seeing at the time.

 

Hang in there!

[Miami1]

Thank you guys!

Today hasn't been bad in the anxiety dept., although all day I haven't been out of bed much. I feel exuaghted ,out of breath just walking round the house. Beautiful day Thought I'd take a walk in the neighborhood but zero strength and if I push I feel worst .

 

CYM; I'd love to learn and have the option of over meditating!

I go to cranialsacral therapy couple times a week and its great.

 

Sky , I hear what your saying ref habit, thinking a pill will fix this as well as I may be in acute . Below is a message I received ;

 

.........................................................................;.............

"Hey J.

I've seen your posts on here as well and I know how much you are struggling, I'm so sorry for that. My experience with the remeron was:

It was given to me at the beginning of my benzo taper to help with the withdrawals and it did help. That was April, 2012

I was starting to feel better from my taper, down to .8 mgs from 15 of V about one year later, 3/30/13 when I forgot my Rem for 1 night and it sent me into a tailspin. My benzo withdrawals came back, I stopped tapering, I doubled my Rem to 15 mgs. I couldn't believe missing one dose did this!

I finally took my last drop of V. On 6/1/13. I got back to 7.5 mg of Rem as well. I started to feel like myself again 2 months off the benzo, started cutting my 7.5s in half on 8/1/13 and by the end of August I took my last Rem. And now, 8 months later I'm still in crappy feeling Rem. withdrawals.

I'm not suffering like many on this thread, I had no problems tapering and really it was about 4 months after my last Rem. that the worst of the brain fog, DP/DR, tinnitus, blurred vision kicked in. That's the weird arc my recovering is taking. Others may do a windows and waves thing or just go from bad to better like I did when I stopped the benzo.

Things I learned: Missing one day of Rem can send you into a tailspin that can be tuff to stabilize from. 2) remeron needs to be tapered slowly and should probably be done a long time after, at least 3 months, after a benzo withdrawal.

I hope this helps, I know you don't want to increase your rem dose but I'm sticking with the stabilize and go slow theory. I wish I had slowly tapered the rem, I think I would have saved myself months of suffering. Hope this helps.

All my best,".................................................

So I am most likely dealing with some of both.

 

3 pm my low mood started heading toward light depression so I had another small dose of fish oil after dinner. And headed for the back yard for a little sun. The anxiety is horrific but depression is something I have extreme difficulty with. I get seriously desperate when depression slides in. I never knew what deppresion was until benzo tapering and after my ct at the treatment center. Now I can realate to those afflicted by this horrendous condition.

 

 

My head is pounding, eye movement makes it worst.

 

Answering a few questions ;

Tapered too much on the 15 mgPrevacid will try 20/25% in a few days. I do have gerd ,H hernia

 

No caffeine no alcohol ,ocational cocholate chip cok. No soda

Have not had any sort of benzo or zdrug since dec 16 2013

 

I did take 2mg of Zofran for nausea last night

Thank you all,

[Skyler]

Hi Miami.. very thoughtful and informative. Remeron sounds like it can be a bear, and you may be feeling WD symptoms from higher up that had a lag time as well.. (benzos are Notorious for this)... that said, the forum on which I first learned about benzos (some of it good info, some not so much) used to advise people to wait for 6 months after finishing a benzo taper to start reducing an AD, and this was for an uncomplicated taper. I think this was excellent advice.

 

And a big congrats for kicking the benzo habit. Unfortunately, benzos can cause bigtime depression in WD. Sorry to hear about the hernia, many people do have issues though, I hope yours is in check and Inot too serious, they can be a trial when they get large. My Dad was able to stay clear of PIs until he got to 80, then he did know how he would have handled the discomfort without Nexium.

[Miami1]

Sky ; can you tell me a little about your first 6/8 months after benzo exit?

[Skyler]

Hmm, fraid my post taper period is not very informative in that particular regard. I went off soooooo slowly at the end, it was utterly without problems.. in my case, it was the time just before I finished the taper. I got down to 1.25 mgs of diazepam, and ran afoul with Lyrica. I did not realize Lyrica was a drug that needed tapering, and tried to jump off as I had 3 previous times... the last time, not so fast. Lyrica caused tinnitus, and so did diazepam.

 

So I ended up crawling off diazepam. That is when I was tapering, because I ended up holding for a year at 1.25 mgs. The first reason was because I thought I was just incrediably sensitive, and anything would set off the tinnitus, but what really was going on was the lyrica suspension was deteriorating because I held it for more than 3 days, then I broke my wrist, and the opioids I took for pain set it off, then I had two infections that had to be treated with antibiotics.. and those made the ringing worse. When I finally did get back to tapering, I reduced the last of the diazepam over 4.5 months. At something like .025 mgs a week.

 

Sigh.. it has been a long road I'm afraid. But hopefully you can see from this how WD from one drug can then setoff a chain of events that is not so easy to stop. I'm moving along now however, but would never have made forward progress without a hiatus from the original drug taper.

[Skyler]

I should add that I crossed over from 3 mgs. Klonopin to 20 mgs of diazepam early on. The cross was pretty bumpy and I had cortisol related issues with mood and anger, but this abated 2 months in, after which the taper was largely asymtomatic (provided I reduced no faster than 10% of the previous dose.) until I got to 1.25 mgs diazepam, at which point the !@#$ hit the proverbial fan by way of tinnitus.

[Miami1]

 

Wow Sky; so many of us have and continue to suffer !

 

If I only knew, if my doctor would have only warned me. If I would have known about and read up on some of the many forums .

Last night I slept fairly well and had a pretty good morning until the afternoon.

 

I was at my doctors office and felt like it was hot in there and was sweating. He wants me to get blood work for thyroid and other stuff .

I'm beginning to think the bulk of my problems might be benzo WD . I just don't know.

 

Hope all is well

[Miami1]

Was feeling fair tonight, then I took my first of two nightly dose of 1mg of remeron . Soon after my head started spinning and started feeling terrible. Can't wait for my second dose.

[Skyler]

Miami, the message I left was all about how this does NOT have to be hard. This has NOT been hard for me. If I had not listened to my body and slowed, it would have been hard. I did have WD symptoms that bled thru from one drug to another, and yes, my journey has been long. That was the message. Sorry it came across pretty much the reverse of what I intended.

 

Skyler,somewhat befuddled. Signing off.

[Miami1]

Sorry sky ; not thinking straight ,after reading again I understand.

Thks you

[Altostrata]

If I were you, I'd reduce the first round slightly.

[Miami1]

How slightly you think?

I've had a terrible day and it continues! Hands jaw shaking minds going 100 mph feel like crying. Feel hopeless like I'm about to have a nervous breakdown. Even considering hospital, again. This is never ending.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

How are you measuring the doses?

[Miami1]

Liquid suspension. Oral syringe..

[Miami1]

I have lowered remeron from 1.8 to 1.7mg. I'm having now crazy dreams which I did not have and am waking up 3-4 am sleeping 3-5 hrs. I just woke up with my tshrt drenched in sweat. I am losing more control as the days go by. Feeling confused akathisia. At a point where I am most likely hypersensitivie to remeron possibly other drugs. I might as well continue to taper once a week since it doesn't look like I'm going to stablize. My benzo cold turkey in dec has stewed up my cns. I hope I can stay out of the hospital and or getting back on benzos just to ease remeron out.

[Miami1]

Spoke with two doctors today. One said I can try and crossover to elivil. The other said they might use phenobarbital to get me off the remeron. I would think the first option is at least sane?

[Muddles]

Not sure or heard of either of those drugs. At desperate times we seek relief in practically anything. I wish I could advise you, we all know how this knocks you about.

Hugs to you.

[Miami1]

I am desperate on 1.7 mg of remeron and going insane. I feel I need to cross over to another AD to get out of this mess. Amittriptyline was suggested any thoughts?

I'm getting worst by the hour. And I don't know what to do.

 

Thk you

[Meimeiquest]

I don't know your story, but generally it is safest to updose the med you are already on. How does that sound? Sensitized nervous systems often do poorly on new meds.

[Meimeiquest]

Well, I read most of your thread. Am I right that you haven't ever really stabilized since benzo WD? Does Remeron work like the APs in that the affinity for different receptors declines in a disproportionate way? Looks like it has a very long half-life, but that would change dramatically with such a small dose.

 

It seems to me you need to stabilize for a good while, then reduce. I have no idea if this is the med to do it on. Personally, my secret weapon with drugs that give me side effects and withdrawal at the same time is tiny, frequent doses.

 

I really hope you can get something worked out soon!